PSR Tutorial Forum

Genos (10 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: Al Ram on December 30, 2018, 05:19:45 AM

Title: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on December 30, 2018, 05:19:45 AM
Hello Friends

I just noticed that some numbers on the registration buttons are fading away, specially numbers from 1 to 4.   It is not even a year !    anyway . . . . anyone noticing the same ?  I do not know why.   i guess mostly use . . . . i always have my hands clean when playing, so, it is not because of dirt or sweat or anything like that.   

Is there an easy way to replace them ?  I do not use the OTS buttons and the numbers on those are pretty good.   would it be easy to exchange them ?    Only problem is that eventually those numbers will also fade away  . . . .

Any way to re-paint them ?

Any suggestions/Comments are appreciated.

thanks in advance.
 
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on December 30, 2018, 06:09:18 AM
Never heard this defect ever before. 😱
Cleaning problem maybe ?

IMO you have to contact your Yamaha dealer and replacement should be done free of charge ( if warranty ).

Good luck !
Babette
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Tankdave on December 30, 2018, 10:11:14 AM
Any chance of a picture?
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: EileenL on December 30, 2018, 11:27:34 AM
Had my Genos for over a year and my buttons are still like new. How do you clean them. All that is needed is a dampened cloth in plain water and a micro fiber cloth to polish.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Tankdave on December 30, 2018, 11:59:53 AM
Maybe it's a build up of "dirt" over time on the most used buttons? 

NB. Not saying you are dirty but are hands can get greasy etc.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Bud2 on December 30, 2018, 12:39:10 PM
I use my Registration buttons a lot also and I have had my Genos over a year now and I can't see any difference from when it was new. I can only suggest you have faulty buttons. I only hoover any dust off and wipe the screen with barely a damp cloth.
Bill
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Bachus on December 30, 2018, 02:32:13 PM
Som peoples sweat is like toxics, combined with lots of preasure its a killer
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: zionip on December 30, 2018, 05:26:19 PM
Hello Friends

I just noticed that some numbers on the registration buttons are fading away, specially numbers from 1 to 4.   It is not even a year !    anyway . . . . anyone noticing the same ?  I do not know why.   i guess mostly use . . . . i always have my hands clean when playing, so, it is not because of dirt or sweat or anything like that.   

Is there an easy way to replace them ?  I do not use the OTS buttons and the numbers on those are pretty good.   would it be easy to exchange them ?    Only problem is that eventually those numbers will also fade away  . . . .

Any way to re-paint them ?

Any suggestions/Comments are appreciated.

thanks in advance.

Hi Al,

I am sorry to hear that the printed numbers of the most frequently used registration buttons of your Genos are fading away.

The cheapest and easiest remedy - you can use a Brother P-touch label maker with black on clear tape to print out the faded numbers 1 to 4, cut them to fit on the buttons, and stick / superimpose on top of the buttons. 

I use this method to label configurable buttons / sliders for some of my keyboards / MIDI controller surfaces for applications like vArranger, Sunday Keys 1.4 and Worship Essentials 2 ( MainStage 3 worship templates ). 

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on December 30, 2018, 05:52:06 PM
Thanks all for your quick and very good responses.

I got a couple of good ideas.

To start with, i already emailed the USA dealer I purchased Genos from, explained the problem and asked his help with the warranty.     The keyboard was delivered to me on 12/27/2017 but did not start using it until January 2018.  So, hopefully the warranty is still good.

The idea to use a label maker is also good.  I can do that as a last resource.  I guess would have to do that from time to time because those will also fade away eventually.

It seems that no-one else is experiencing this problem.  Not sure why this is happening here.   I always play with clean hands and ceretainly no grease on my hands.   I gently clean the Genos with a dry soft cloth. (the type used for a car).

Per request, I am attaching a couple of pics.

Will keep you informed of results.

thanks again.




 

Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on December 30, 2018, 06:55:15 PM
Warranty is not a problem here.
Your keyboard is only one year old.

To keep your warranty I should not open my Genos if I were you.

Now it is up to Yamaha to help you out, free of charge.

I wonder if all reg buttons do not need to be replaced ?

It would be great if your dealer offers you an other arranger Yamaha keyboard during the repair of your Genos.

Cross my fingers.😏

Wish you a Happy New Year.

Keep smiling, Babette


Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Roland on December 30, 2018, 07:30:48 PM
I like the way Yamaha did the button printing on Tyros 3 for example. The print is not on top of the button, but underneath it. The button itself is just clear plastic and you can see through. This way, you can "abuse" those buttons as much as you want, but the "print" simply cannot deteriorate. Maybe a suggestion for a future version of Genos :-)
(http://)
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: ugawoga on December 30, 2018, 08:42:25 PM
Hi
The most sensible answer would be as i have worked out.
I have looked at my buttons and it looks as though the buttons are printed on and protected somehow
This suggests to me that the coating over the print is defective.
They must do it with heat or something when they make the moulding so it is unscratchable.
Still a defective set of buttons which I am sure Yamaha will replace for free
I cannot rub the numbers off my cheap computer keyboard . You would expect better from $,5000 Genos monster ;D ::)
Look at the back and make sure it was not made in Calcutta!! >:( ;D


All the best
John 8)
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on January 01, 2019, 11:11:35 AM
Hi John,

Is the unit Genos price of $5000 still valid ?
It looks like the present price has been decreased, right ?

Happy New Year !

Babette
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Bachus on January 01, 2019, 11:22:00 AM
Hi John,

Is the unit Genos price of $5000 still valid ?
It looks like the present price has been decreased, right ?

Happy New Year !

Babette

Overhere in Holland you can find them as low as 3500 after some bargaining..
Official price has not changed however.. 
but you can find online prices as low as 3799
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: EileenL on January 01, 2019, 05:39:23 PM
I don't think anyone has paid the book price for Genos and some of us got very good deals that bought the first ones.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on January 01, 2019, 07:15:10 PM
The $5K is the MSRP.  Most people did not paid that price but got better pricing from good dealers.

I contacted my dealer about the registration buttons problem (numbers fading away) he said i need to contact Yamaha directly to start the warranty process. 

I called yesterday but Yamaha was on vacation.  Will try again tomorrow Wednesday 

Yes. i liked the T4 and T5 registration buttons where the number was inside.

thank you all.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on January 01, 2019, 08:26:07 PM
The dealer is the one who shall contact Yamaha for you. That was a very strange answer, and he is not correct.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Bachus on January 01, 2019, 08:36:03 PM
The dealer is the one who shall contact Yamaha for you. That was a very strange answer, and he is not correct.

Thats where buying local comes in..
Support.. support... Support
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on January 01, 2019, 08:58:04 PM
Yes! I try to avoid buying over the net. But I am so lucky as to have a fine music store in Trondheim where I live😀
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on January 01, 2019, 09:06:02 PM

The dealer is the one who shall contact Yamaha for you. That was a very strange answer, and he is not correct.

That is what i thought !!! I agree i found the answer strange.  I sent an email to the dealer explaining the problem. He responded via email indicating that i should contact Yamaha. He did not even provide me with a phone number.

I have not mentioned the name of the dealer because it is a very reputable USA dealer very well known to people in this forum and recommended here many times.  In fact I got the name from here and have purchased more than one keyboard from him.   

Maybe that is the way it works in USA.   I will contact Yamaha tomorrow and start from there.

thanks   
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on January 01, 2019, 09:29:31 PM
It must have been a painful " dealer service " experience for you. 😰

Since it looks to be a warranty case it is much better to contact Yamaha USA directly, IMO.

Good luck.

Babette





Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: EB5AGV on January 02, 2019, 01:17:57 AM
One of the things I didn't like on the Genos (and even wrote that on my opinion on the German online seller Web months ago) was the labelling of the buttons. I was worried about their durability. If you see them with angled lighting and a magnifying glass, you will see that there is no protection layer, it is just the paint over the plastic. That is not a durable solution and, even if now we know of only one case, I am afraid we will get more labelling fade cases over the time.

I really hope I am wrong!

Jose
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on January 02, 2019, 02:59:30 AM
I bought a 2018 Honda Odyssey a year or so ago. There are several examples of where Honda has "cheaped out" on the quality, all in the name of profit.

Sadly, it seems Yamaha has begun to follow suit. When I first opened my Genos, there was a major blemish on the main deck. Not long ago, we would NEVER see this kind of workmanship from a Japanese product. Looks like the Japs have adopted some of the more questionable business models of the West. For proof, I give you the button design of the Tyros series versus Genos, as Roland points out. You can hit the Tyros buttons with a hammer and do no damage. Genos? Hmm? Let's hope this is an isolated case.

Al, I don't care how good your U.S. dealer is. It's his or her job to step up to the plate on warrantee and not slough you off to Yamaha without giving you a contact number. That's the last time I would buy anything from that dealer!
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on January 02, 2019, 05:42:53 AM

Sorry Al but I am confused. 😫

Why is the name of this Yamaha USA dealer not mentioned here ? A legal problem, maybe ?

IMHO this dealer, all potential buyers, customers and Yamaha USA need to know this important information, right ?

Babette
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Bachus on January 02, 2019, 08:37:09 AM
Sorry Al but I am confused. 😫

Why is the name of this Yamaha USA dealer not mentioned here ? A legal problem, maybe ?

IMHO this dealer, all potential buyers, customers and Yamaha USA need to know this important information, right ?

Babette

Open and honest communication..

If they deserve kudos praise them
If they underperform, that should be shared to
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on January 02, 2019, 07:08:26 PM
thanks. 

The reason i did not want to provide the name of the dealer is because i was not entirely sure that his answer was correct or not and did not want to be unfair.  I wanted to check with Yamaha first.
 
I called Yamaha USA and they told me that in fact I should have started the warranty process with Yamaha.

So, it turns out that the dealer response was appropriate. 

I am now working directly  with Yamaha . . . . they referred me to a couple of Yamaha certified repair shops in my area (San Diego) that perform warranty work.

Not sure yet if the warranty will still apply.  The Genos Keyboard warranty is for one year.  They asked me for the invoice which is dated December 5, 2017.  So, if they go solely on the date of the invoice, the warranty is already expired.

However, it took like 3-4 weeks after invoice date to get the keyboard shipped and delivered to me.  So, warranty still a grey area.

Still working with Yamaha. Will keep you informed.   

Fortunately, the fading numbers on the registration buttons bother me but are not a malfunctioning problem.   

Thanks



Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on January 02, 2019, 08:18:09 PM
I am very surprised you have only 1 year warranty.😫
Are you sure ? See your manual, plse.


Babette
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on January 02, 2019, 09:42:31 PM
Hello Al. In Norway we have 2 years warranty, and within 5 years we have the right to complain if anything goes wrong with the product. And here it is the dealer that takes contact with Yamaha. I believed this was so everywhere, but appearently not. But you chould have 2 years warranty. Having had a keyboard that gave up the spirit after 10 months, I am glad I have 2 years warranty here!
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on January 02, 2019, 10:03:46 PM
Quote
In Norway we have 2 years warranty, and within 5 years we have the right to complain if anything goes wrong with the product

I believe we only have a one year warranty in Canada. A fellow Canadian can correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm right, it's further proof that Yamaha could care less about our business. Warranty durations should be global. Why give preferential treatment to Europe over Canada?? I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on January 02, 2019, 10:20:28 PM
It appears that the Yamaha warranty varies depending on Country.

The PDF of USA warranty is attached.   1-year for Arrangement keyboards.

Thanks
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on January 02, 2019, 10:22:51 PM
Thanks Al. Once again, we get ripped off. Totally wrong of Yamaha to do that to us.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on January 02, 2019, 10:34:26 PM
I don't think it is only Yamaha, it also has to do with the laws in your country, how strong are your consumer rights and so on.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on January 02, 2019, 10:36:05 PM
Hi Toril,

IMHO Yamaha's warranty policy was applicable for the entire planet. Apparently I am wrong.

If Al has cleaned his Genos reg buttons correctly I do not see why this problem should not be solved free of charge.

Babette
 
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on January 02, 2019, 10:38:55 PM
I would think so too Babette.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on January 02, 2019, 10:43:29 PM
I believe the different warranty terms may have something to do with consumer laws in each Country.

For example, in the USA a lot of other products have a one-year warranty.  It seems that Norway and other Countries have better consumer protective laws.

If you look at the Yamaha website for your specific Country, you will find the warranty terms for your specific Yamaha product. 

For example Genos is covered for one year but 'Digital Pianos' in the USA are covered for two years.  My thinking is that Genos is also a Digital Piano, but not according to their list.  They have a list of specific models . . . .


Thanks

Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on January 02, 2019, 11:11:11 PM
Just to update everyone on this post.

Hopefully it will have a happy ending.

I spent most of the day on the phone with Yamaha today.  At issue was the dates of the warranty.   

Yamaha warranty in USA is one year after invoice date.  I purchased the Genos keyboard in December 2017.  The invoice date is Dec 5, 2017.   So, technically, the warranty is out.   I missed it for 3 weeks or so.

However, that is the date when i PAID for it but did not receive it until 2-3 weeks later.  So, ok, Yamaha agreed to extend the warranty to compensate time for shipping, etc.  a couple more weeks.  However, i am facing another problem . . . . i explained to Yamaha that I have performances and need the keyboard during January and February.  I do not want to part away with the keyboard right now, not until end of february early march.

To make a long story short, Yamaha was gracious enough to extend my warranty another 90 days from the invoice date  (i have it in writing via email) until March 5, 2019. 

I truly believe that Yamaha is a good company that backs us when needed.

thanks

Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on January 02, 2019, 11:21:16 PM
Hi Al,

Thank you for sharing the Yamaha arranger keyboard warranty information in the USA.

I am really surprised 🐸.

What about the USA warranty period if the owner is a pro musician ?

Regards,
Babette

Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: DonM on January 02, 2019, 11:50:33 PM
Yamaha markets the Genos as a professional instrument.  Why should it make a difference in the warranty time?
The have always been great about covering some defects even well after the warranty has expired.
The faulty screen on PSR S900 is a great example.  They were replacing them several years after any warranty expired.
Some dealers offer their own extended warranty at no cost.  Sweetwater is an example.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on January 03, 2019, 12:10:25 AM
Quote
I don't think it is only Yamaha, it also has to do with the laws in your country, how strong are your consumer rights and so on.
Completely disagree. If this were true, then why do I own other electronic products that carry a three year warranty? Our laws have nothing to do with Europeans being offered far longer warranty periods from Yamaha than Canadians. We also paid top dollar and waited a hell of a lot longer to get our Genos keyboards. We deserve equal warranty periods...PERIOD! No excuses.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Fred Smith on January 03, 2019, 12:24:49 AM
We deserve equal warranty periods.

Lee,

We deserve to get what we paid for, which in our case is a one-year warranty.

Other countries may have longer warranty periods, but there's a price for it.

Cheers,
Fred
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on January 03, 2019, 03:13:54 AM
Agreed, Fred. So long as we are all being treated the same. If our friends in Europe and other places are getting better warranties, then they are probably paying more at the starting gate. At least, I would hope so.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: valimaties on January 03, 2019, 08:47:16 AM
Lee,

We deserve to get what we paid for, which in our case is a one-year warranty.

Other countries may have longer warranty periods, but there's a price for it.

Cheers,
Fred

Hi Fred.
Which was the price for your Genos?
I paid my Tyros 5 + 2000 Euros cash, in November 2017. (In a good transition, it was something like 2500E T5 + 2000E cash). Now, on thomann it is 3800 Euro.
In these conditions my supplier gave me 3 years warranty.

Regards,
Vali
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on January 03, 2019, 10:47:29 AM
I can comfort you. We pay more at the starting gate!😀
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on January 03, 2019, 10:55:39 AM
Not bad at all ( at that time ), Vali. :)

Today the selling Genos prices are even lower.
Most dealers in Europe ( and in the UK ?? ) are offering a 3 years warranty, some 5 years ( black on white ).

I do not know the present US prices but there must be no much difference between ours and theirs ( local tax included ) today, IMHO.

Best regards, Babette





Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: EileenL on January 03, 2019, 03:41:11 PM
Here in UK we have always had two year warrantee's on our keyboards and a lot of our shops extend them to five or six years. This is because they have faith in the product and know very few will need a repair of some sort.
 
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: sooty8 on January 03, 2019, 04:19:18 PM
I brought a used Tyros 5 in December 2017 and received  a 3 year warranty  with the dealer, so far so good I have had no need for it.
A lot of dealers are offering 5- 6 years warranty  on a new Genos in the UK. I think you pay less for your keyboards in America then in the UK, but I would still prefer the long warranty.

Regards

Steve
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on January 03, 2019, 05:19:48 PM
I paid $4,125 US Dollars for Genos in Dec/2017.   Everything included (tax and shipping) delivered to my door.

That is approx $3,500 Euros. 

That is when the price of Genos was higher, they are coming down.

So, i guess with that price, not a lot of room for more than 1Y warranty.

The problem i am having is not a functional problem, meaning the keyboard works functionally correct. 

Thanks everyone for your comments.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on January 03, 2019, 06:02:51 PM
Hi Al,

Happy to hear your Genos cosmetic problems will be repaired soon and free of charge.👍

Present lowest Genos USA $ street price ??

Thank you in advance for this information.

Babette

Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on January 03, 2019, 06:50:35 PM
Hi Al,

Present lowest Genos USA $ street price ??

Babette

Babette

Advertised price for brand new Genos in USA is $5,500 - see link below.

To get a better price usually need to contact the dealer of your preference with money in hand ready to make a deal . . . . . I would say at least one thousand less . . . .  thanks

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Genos--yamaha-genos-76-key-arranger-workstation?mrkgcl=28&mrkgadid=3301332702&rkg_id=0&product_id=Genos&campaigntype=shopping&campaign=aaShopping%20-%20SKU%20-%20Keyboards%20%26%20Synthesizers&adgroup=Portable%20%26%20Arranger%20Keyboards%20-%20Yamaha%20-%20genos&placement=google&adpos=1o2&creative=280136036140&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjLzV-aLS3wIVhb9kCh3OgQnFEAYYAiABEgLyLvD_BwE (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Genos--yamaha-genos-76-key-arranger-workstation?mrkgcl=28&mrkgadid=3301332702&rkg_id=0&product_id=Genos&campaigntype=shopping&campaign=aaShopping%20-%20SKU%20-%20Keyboards%20%26%20Synthesizers&adgroup=Portable%20%26%20Arranger%20Keyboards%20-%20Yamaha%20-%20genos&placement=google&adpos=1o2&creative=280136036140&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjLzV-aLS3wIVhb9kCh3OgQnFEAYYAiABEgLyLvD_BwE)
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on January 03, 2019, 09:32:55 PM
Present European prices seem to be lower than the US prices...😱
Right or wrong ?

Babette
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on January 03, 2019, 10:16:37 PM
Babette
Thomman UK advertises the Genos for 3,777 Euros including shipping and VAT.   That is approx $4,300 US Dollars.

I paid $200 US dollars less than that about a year ago.   So, i think the prices in the USA are slightly lower than Europe.  IF you know where to buy and negotiate.

If you pay the advertised price of $5,500 in the US you pay too much. 

thanks

Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on January 03, 2019, 10:41:04 PM
I paid $6,000 Canadian plus 13 percent tax.
Total Canadian: $6,780
 
As of today:
Total U.S. $5,025
Total Euros 4,408 If Thomman UK is selling the Genos for 3,777 tax in, we're getting the shaft!!!!!!!

How does that compare to those who received greater than a one year warranty?
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on January 04, 2019, 05:54:49 AM

As mentioned earlier by Bachus the present European Genos street price is approx. 3500,- ( all costs included ) and 3 years warranty.
Comparable to the US prices, right ?

Most European Yamaha dealers are offering 1 or 2 years full warranty on second hand Yamaha arranger keyboards older than 3 years.

The Yamaha brand has a very good quality reputation in Europe.
Most European arranger keyboard endusers ( pro's and home players ) are buying Yamaha arrangers due to the reliable Yamaha quality, their plug-and-play features and last but not least " mountains of software " are available on the market.
No other competitor offers so much software, I guess.

If Yamaha should decide to bring back their warranty period to 1 year ( for brand new arranger keyboards ) in Europe, all dealers and endusers would never accept this
" new " warranty policy, IMHO.

Babette
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Carlos84 on January 04, 2019, 06:28:35 AM
Last Oktober i pay for a new Genos 3180 euro in Holland . so much price difference   around the world  but now the price go up to 4200 euro  so i am lucky buy on time
and i have 3 year warranty
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: EileenL on January 04, 2019, 02:25:56 PM
I can not see what the Price of Genos in UK, USA, Canada and Europe has to do with letters fading.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: beykock on January 04, 2019, 05:51:09 PM
I fully agree, Eileen.

We have heard the US Yamaha warranty for arranger keyboards = 12 months only.
Then the price and warranty discussion started.

Babette
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on January 04, 2019, 05:55:04 PM
Agreed, but it's common for these topics to drift a bit.

Maybe the title needs to be modified to, "Genos warranties fading away!!!!!!"  ;D
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: SnowThief on January 08, 2019, 09:50:04 AM
Maybe the title needs to be modified to, "Genos warranties fading away!!!!!!"  ;D
That's hilarious!
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on January 30, 2019, 09:03:58 PM
I finally had everything in writing (emails, case number, etc. ) from Yamaha to approve warranty work.  Today i finally took the keyboard to a local repair shop (Yamaha approved).   

I will be without Genos keyboard for a few weeks.  The shop told me it will be a couple of weeks to get the parts and then due to workload one or two more weeks to finish.

The problem is mostly cosmetic, it does not really bother me.  However, it affects presentation and resale value.

I felt a bit of anxiety leaving the keyboard and hoping that this work does not affect anything else because you never know . . . .

Will let you know the results.

thanks

Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: EB5AGV on January 30, 2019, 10:05:24 PM
I finally had everything in writing (emails, case number, etc. ) from Yamaha to approve warranty work.  Today i finally took the keyboard to a local repair shop (Yamaha approved).   

I will be without Genos keyboard for a few weeks.  The shop told me it will be a couple of weeks to get the parts and then due to workload one or two more weeks to finish.

The problem is mostly cosmetic, it does not really bother me.  However, it affects presentation and resale value.

I felt a bit of anxiety leaving the keyboard and hoping that this work does not affect anything else because you never know . . . .

Will let you know the results.

thanks

Thanks for the update, I was wondering what had happened!

Well, as a Genos owner, the durability of the key labels is a concern to me. I hope this is an isolated case, but something tells me that it won't be the case  :(... only time will tell!

Jose
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on January 30, 2019, 10:13:38 PM
Al, have you performed a complete system backup before sending the Genos away for multiple sleep-overs in someone's shop?
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on January 30, 2019, 10:40:40 PM
Al, have you performed a complete system backup before sending the Genos away for multiple sleep-overs in someone's shop?

Lee

thanks.  Smart question.   Not sure if i did a complete backup.  Certainly copied to USB all my important stuff such as registrations, external styles, etc.

thanks.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: panos on January 30, 2019, 10:51:55 PM
Just saw this topic.
A two year guarantee in European Union is by law.
It's not up to the seller to give lesser guarantee if he wants to sell something in EU.
If he doesn't trust his own product's reliability better don't bother to produce it at all.
Also the guarantee in EU starts from the day you have received the product and not from the time you ordered or paid for it.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/faq/index_en.htm (https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/faq/index_en.htm)

When I replaced my psr's main buttons few months ago because I was cleaning my keyboard with a common glass cleaning product :'(,
the repairer first ordered the buttons and when they arrived he asked for the keyboard to replace them.
It took him one day.The next day the keyboard was at my home again.

Is there a reason why they need to keep the keyboard until the new buttons arrive?

If you had a faulty mp3 player on your new car would you take it to the repαιr shop and leave it there for a month until the new mp3 player arrives and they find the time to fix it?

Why they should keep the keyboard for a few weeks?
Sorry but I don't understand.

Certainly the fade away is not your fault.
Everyone can understand that numbers 1-4 are most commonly used than numbers 5-10.

By the way
3.800 euros for Genos in Greece.
If a dealer has a higher price so he can make the buyer feel happy for buying something 30% off the initial price,
he won't see any client because the rest of the dealers allready sell at the real (lower) price.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on January 30, 2019, 11:50:56 PM
Hello AL. I will follow this with suspense. My repair story did not go well, the keyboard was damaged in transport, and the whole process took 4 (!) months! But, in the end, Yamaha gave me a new unit. Good luck! Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: ugawoga on January 31, 2019, 12:32:13 AM
Hi
If your letters are fading on the Genos ,Try French letters they have better protection. ;D
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on January 31, 2019, 10:44:15 AM
And why is that?😀😀😅
Title: thanks Yamaha - Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on March 24, 2019, 09:25:08 PM
Hello Friends

An update.   If you recall from this post.   Some numbers on Genos registration buttons were fading away.

The Genos warranty is one year in USA which is kind of the norm over here.   I contacted Yamaha a few days before the warranty expired.  They approved the replacement, however, i could not part with Genos for certain dates because commitments already made. 

Yamaha graciously extended my warranty another 90 days.   They provided me with names of authorized shops in my area.  The buttons have been replaced for free. I have been testing the keyboard and everything seems good.

Just want to mention that in this particular case, Yamaha came thru with outstanding customer service.   

This is like the third time i deal with Yamaha on repair or replacements and they are ALWAYS excellent (in my experience, they have been extremely customer oriented)

THANKS YAMAHA

You all have a great day.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on March 24, 2019, 09:40:17 PM
I love happy endings!😀😀😀
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: EB5AGV on March 24, 2019, 09:42:12 PM
Great news!. Let's hope this fading problem is an isolated case  :-\
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on March 24, 2019, 10:05:04 PM
Quote
This is like the third time i deal with Yamaha on repair or replacements and they are ALWAYS excellent (in my experience, they have been extremely customer oriented)
Despite the fact I hate some of the Genos design ideas (non-alphabetical lists to name one!), Yamaha has always been quick to fix problems on an individual basis. I had a flaw on the surface of my Genos, and Yamaha immediately gave me a refund for the damage. Reason: Genos was so much in demand at the time, it would have taken 6 months to get a replacement in Canada and they didn't want to swap out a 6 month old, gigging Genos for a new one. Their monetary compensation was very generous, so I accepted it.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on March 24, 2019, 10:09:42 PM
Yes, and Yamaha gave me a new S975 after my S970 was damaged in transport to the repair shop! Yamaha forever!
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Pianoman on March 24, 2019, 10:52:14 PM
Overhere in Holland you can find them as low as 3500 after some bargaining..
Official price has not changed however.. 
but you can find online prices as low as 3799

I bought mine for 3200.

Best Regards.
Abby.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: elad770 on March 25, 2019, 02:55:10 PM
Hi John,

Is the unit Genos price of $5000 still valid ?
It looks like the present price has been decreased, right ?

Happy New Year !

Babette

I purchased my Genos 5 Months ago:

- Genos
- Genos Stand
- Genos Speakers
- Genos Pedal
+ Free Shipping
------------------------
4100$

Not Bad i would say........
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on March 25, 2019, 08:06:52 PM
I purchased my Genos 5 Months ago:

- Genos
- Genos Stand
- Genos Speakers
- Genos Pedal
+ Free Shipping
------------------------
4100$

Not Bad i would say........

Elad

is that US dollars ? 

thanks
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: elad770 on March 26, 2019, 01:24:27 AM
Yes, This is US Dollar!
Got it from an Authorized Yamaha Dealer!
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: travlin-easy on March 26, 2019, 01:59:03 AM
From what I could see in the photos, this is a wear problem, which is not at all unusual with this type of surface printing. I had the same problem with my laptop keys and after a couple years, I could not see the letters printed on the keys at all. Fortunately, I am a touch typist, therefore I had no problems not being able to see the imprinted letters on the keys.

Most of the tyros keyboards had the letters/numbers imprinted beneath a surface layer of clear plastic, therefore, it was impossible to wear the lettering off the keys. Someone at Yamaha engineering made a mistake by allowing surface labeling on those switches.

Don Mason is correct in his assessment of Yamaha in that they are a very reputable company that takes care of it's customers, often well beyond the normal warranty period. The PSR 900 is a great example of this.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on March 26, 2019, 12:29:19 PM
Quote
Someone at Yamaha engineering made a mistake by allowing surface labeling on those switches.
Sadly, we have finally reached an era where even the Japanese companies are on a quest for bigger profits. We Baby Boomers and those born a few years before were raised on Japanese quality that no one on the planet could compete with. Now, those same companies (Yamaha, Honda) are engaged in cost cutting measures. My 2018 Honda Odyssey is 100 percent American designed and built - and it shows. Sad to see, really.

The saving grace is, Yamaha has left the important stuff (sounds and rhythms) in the hands of their own engineers. The day they farm that out off shore, will be the day I give up music :).
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Pianoman on March 26, 2019, 03:01:08 PM

The saving grace is, Yamaha has left the important stuff (sounds and rhythms) in the hands of their own engineers. The day they farm that out off shore, will be the day I give up music :).

Don't give up music Lee.
Just shop around for something different, if that were to happen.

Best Regards.
Abby.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: elad770 on March 26, 2019, 04:00:09 PM
Sadly, we have finally reached an era where even the Japanese companies are on a quest for bigger profits. We Baby Boomers and those born a few years before were raised on Japanese quality that no one on the planet could compete with. Now, those same companies (Yamaha, Honda) are engaged in cost cutting measures. My 2018 Honda Odyssey is 100 percent American designed and built - and it shows. Sad to see, really.

The saving grace is, Yamaha has left the important stuff (sounds and rhythms) in the hands of their own engineers. The day they farm that out off shore, will be the day I give up music :).

I didn't understand what you were saying here but i think you are being a bit dramatic. Genos is a tool that provides you with basically Limitless! options to create basically everything you want!
I simply don't understand what does it mean: Yamaha Left the important stuff? It's such an empty statement. Yamaha is an evolving company like every other company in the planet. At the end of the day you should judge by the quality of the product that you recieved and it's the best money can buy!
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on March 26, 2019, 05:57:02 PM
I purchased my Genos 5 Months ago:

- Genos
- Genos Stand
- Genos Speakers
- Genos Pedal
+ Free Shipping
------------------------
4100$

Not Bad i would say........


Elad,
Not bad ?

Best price i have seen . . . .  specially for including accesories and speakers . . . wow.   !!!!

I paid $4,125 for the keyboard only, i thought i had the best price.  Your price beats all i think . . . .

Congrats.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: BogdanH on March 26, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
We're only sharing opinions, right? In that sense, everyone has it's own and is right. Because we all have different measures, needs and expectations.
Saying that, I must say I'm with Lee on that. My interest on hi-quality audio dates back to early 80's, when names Akai, Sansui, Nakamichi, JVC Technics, Sony, etc. were synonyms for "the best". How many of those offer something worth to consider nowaday? None! All of them ceased to exist shortly after they started to make cheapo (no innovations, plastic & rubber, etc.) products. Consumers aren't really that dumb -we do sense when someone is just trying to pull money from our wallet... sooner or later. Right now, my confidence in "Made in Japan" isn't that high anymore -most parts (or even complete products) are made outside Japan anyway.
Back to topic... in my opinion, there's no excuse for $4000 product for such thing to happen (fading symbols on keys) -no matter how "friendly" service department is after the fact. For comparison sake: I have about 5 years old $10 PC keyboard (heavy used!) made in China and it still looks and works as new. Prints on plastic isn't some rocket science -only basic quality required.
I don't wish to compare Yamaha keyboard with other (only few existing) brands. Having PSR-S775, I'm very happy camper:
-excellent price/performance ratio
-excellent ease of use (arranging)
-sound/voice quality is on par or better than other brands offer in similar price category
-panel buttons made of rubber... what can I say... feels cheapo.. for $1000...
Yes, I would recommend S775 anytime.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: elad770 on March 26, 2019, 07:13:42 PM
We're only sharing opinions, right? In that sense, everyone has it's own and is right. Because we all have different measures, needs and expectations.
Saying that, I must say I'm with Lee on that. My interest on hi-quality audio dates back to early 80's, when names Akai, Sansui, Nakamichi, JVC Technics, Sony, etc. were synonyms for "the best". How many of those offer something worth to consider nowaday? None! All of them ceased to exist shortly after they started to make cheapo (no innovations, plastic & rubber, etc.) products. Consumers aren't really that dumb -we do sense when someone is just trying to pull money from our wallet... sooner or later. Right now, my confidence in "Made in Japan" isn't that high anymore -most parts (or even complete products) are made outside Japan anyway.
Back to topic... in my opinion, there's no excuse for $4000 product for such thing to happen (fading symbols on keys) -no matter how "friendly" service department is after the fact. For comparison sake: I have about 5 years old $10 PC keyboard (heavy used!) made in China, and it still looks and works as new. Prints on plastic isn't some rocket science -only basic quality required.
I don't wish to compare Yamaha keyboard with other (only a few existing) brands. Having PSR-S775, I'm very happy camper:
-excellent price/performance ratio
-excellent ease of use (arranging)
-sound/voice quality is on par or better than other brands offer in similar price category
-panel buttons made of rubber... what can I say... feels cheapo.. for $1000...
Yes, I would recommend S775 anytime.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion and nobody makes personal criticism on your opinion. I onl have a problem with lack of specificity. To say something isn't good without specifying what is it that makes it not good is not serious and not convincing as for Yamaha. If there's one thing you can say about Yamaha keyboards is that they Last for a long, long time and from what I see people selling Tyroses all over, it doesn't even depreciate much which is incredible and only makes my point.
You don't know how the knobs were used and this can happen for many reasons. Yes! There's a need to conserve on material quality to allow other advancment to take place like for example the fact that the Genos is the BEST arranger out there. So, if you are a CEO and would like to use resources properly you can either decide that the Genos will be plastic and not Gold so other resources will be invested in user fridley interface which takes years and millinons of dollars to develop. Also, the s775 is an instrument that has SPEAKERS ON BOARD. Rubber buttons is almost a most if you don't want buzzing sounds coming from plastic. Genos is a professional arranger that doesn't have a speaker on board thus plastic is the right way to go. Finally, considering that we are humans and companies thrive on correcting mistakes, the fact that Yamaha is a customer friendly company is SUPER important and more important than the investment itself. The understanding that the company is behind the customer worth everything for the consumer! i wouldn't dismiss that.
As i mentioned above i got an amazing Genos package for 4100$ I could have gotten the Genos for 3500$ Brand new. Could i have paid 6000$ ? Yes. It's available for 7000$ too if you are willing to pay

an instrument that gives you so much for 3500$? absolutely worth it! You think that in a few years you are not going to see wear in ANY instrument or material exist on this planet you are wrong
You said: Nobody makes such and such anymore. Yes, becasue times have changed. If you want to buy vintage stuff or anything else it's available for you.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on March 26, 2019, 07:26:56 PM
Elad770 - Tyros was at the top of the heap in its day. It had non-fading buttons. It also cost millions to develop from the PSR series. Yamaha made good coin on its sale over the years (I assume) and without sacrificing build quality. You wanted specifics? There you go :).
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Pianoman on March 26, 2019, 08:04:47 PM
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion and nobody makes personal criticism on your opinion. I onl have a problem with lack of specificity. To say something isn't good without specifying what is it that makes it not good is not serious and not convincing as for Yamaha. If there's one thing you can say about Yamaha keyboards is that they Last for a long, long time and from what I see people selling Tyroses all over, it doesn't even depreciate much which is incredible and only makes my point.
You don't know how the knobs were used and this can happen for many reasons. Yes! There's a need to conserve on material quality to allow other advancment to take place like for example the fact that the Genos is the BEST arranger out there. So, if you are a CEO and would like to use resources properly you can either decide that the Genos will be plastic and not Gold so other resources will be invested in user fridley interface which takes years and millinons of dollars to develop. Also, the s775 is an instrument that has SPEAKERS ON BOARD. Rubber buttons is almost a most if you don't want buzzing sounds coming from plastic. Genos is a professional arranger that doesn't have a speaker on board thus plastic is the right way to go. Finally, considering that we are humans and companies thrive on correcting mistakes, the fact that Yamaha is a customer friendly company is SUPER important and more important than the investment itself. The understanding that the company is behind the customer worth everything for the consumer! i wouldn't dismiss that.
As i mentioned above i got an amazing Genos package for 4100$ I could have gotten the Genos for 3500$ Brand new. Could i have paid 6000$ ? Yes. It's available for 7000$ too if you are willing to pay

an instrument that gives you so much for 3500$? absolutely worth it! You think that in a few years you are not going to see wear in ANY instrument or material exist on this planet you are wrong
You said: Nobody makes such and such anymore. Yes, becasue times have changed. If you want to buy vintage stuff or anything else it's available for you.

Wow!
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: BogdanH on March 26, 2019, 08:28:18 PM
Just to clarify
Quote
..the s775 is an instrument that has SPEAKERS ON BOARD. Rubber buttons is almost a most if you don't want buzzing sounds coming from plastic....
I (still) have S670, which has real "click" buttons -never heard they would "generate" some sound.

Quote
..If you want to buy vintage stuff..
I'm not after vintage.. I wish better. But that's not the point why I mentioned "old days"... message was: after they started delivering questionable quality, they've disappeared from market.

I think, it's important for me to say, I don't think Genos is not good keyboard overall -far from that! I still believe it's a technical gem.

Wish great day to you all
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on March 26, 2019, 09:11:59 PM
Keeping letters underneath the buttons as on the Tyros is great.
My 2100 have smooth plastic buttons, stable, easy to find, and they don't make vibrating sound. I had a hard tome adjusting to the PSR S970/75's rubber buttons. I think they imagine them to be more comfortable, but I don't agree. BUT, the world is not perfect. All in all I am very happy with my Yamaha products: I have 4 keyboards and a piano from the company!
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Ingar on April 18, 2019, 06:27:31 PM
Hello Friends

I just noticed that some numbers on the registration buttons are fading away, specially numbers from 1 to 4.   It is not even a year !    anyway . . . . anyone noticing the same ?  I do not know why.   i guess mostly use . . . . i always have my hands clean when playing, so, it is not because of dirt or sweat or anything like that.   

Is there an easy way to replace them ?  I do not use the OTS buttons and the numbers on those are pretty good.   would it be easy to exchange them ?    Only problem is that eventually those numbers will also fade away  . . . .

Any way to re-paint them ?

Any suggestions/Comments are appreciated.

thanks in advance.
The figures are screen printed. The knobs are made of plastic and the quality of the ink and the pretreatment of the plastic is very important for a durable result. I have been working with screen printing for many years and know most about the type of problem. It is the printing company that has made a mistake and the guarantee applies of course
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: charlie on April 19, 2019, 07:45:03 PM
The $5K is the MSRP.  Most people did not paid that price but got better pricing from good dealers.

I contacted my dealer about the registration buttons problem (numbers fading away) he said i need to contact Yamaha directly to start the warranty process. 

I called yesterday but Yamaha was on vacation.  Will try again tomorrow Wednesday 

Yes. i liked the T4 and T5 registration buttons where the number was inside.

thank you all.
Yamaha should see to this problem. DO NOT MESS ABOUT WITH IT!!!
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Rien5 on April 20, 2019, 08:58:30 AM
Unfortunately I have a similar problem with fading "Song" button on my Genos (end 2017).
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: EB5AGV on April 20, 2019, 09:22:45 AM
I am beginning to see a "Genos LABELGATE" around the corner  :(

As an electronics equipment repairer, I have seen similar kind of quality problems on expensive amateur radio gear, as the fading OLED displays on the Yaesu FTdx-5000, which was about the price of a Genos (even a tad more) when new. On that case, the manufacturer, Yaesu (which is also japanese) has offered for years (the model was launched on 2010) new updated displays for free (a total value of about 120 EUR, there are three units), but the owner should pay for the labour if the unit is over the 2-year (in EU) warranty period.

So, how that could appy to this case?. There are plenty of similarly labelled buttons on the Genos. And, sadly, if this is a problem with the printing process and/or materials used, all of them are equally prone to fade. Of course, most used buttons will fade first, as we are seeing. I guess that Yamaha (its suppliers really) would find another more durable way to print the labels and then replace them on new manufactured units and offer a new keyset to other owners, which would be installed for free if under warranty and for the cost of the labour if not.

What Yamaha should avoid is to let current Genos users down with fading key labels and no solution. That would hurt model sales and Yamaha brand image quite a bit, IMHO.

Jose
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: EileenL on April 20, 2019, 12:40:07 PM
Well I have had my Genos from when it first came out and believe me the buttons have had a lot of use but are still as good as new. When cleaning my keyboard I only use a damp cloth and then polish up with a Micro Fibre cloth. I always use registration banks for my set ups so as you can imagine they do get a lot of use as do the multi pad buttons and still look as new.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on April 20, 2019, 10:34:07 PM
I do the same as Eileen. I only use a microfiber cloth and warm water, well wrung out. My numbers are stable for the moment, touch wood. (Lee is currently rubbing his head :).)
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: EB5AGV on April 21, 2019, 11:26:52 AM
I do the same as Eileen. I only use a microfiber cloth and warm water, well wrung out. My numbers are stable for the moment, touch wood. (Lee is currently rubbing his head :).)

We have here so far only two known cases of fading numbers so, yes, it may be just some isolate cases. But, sadly, I think that it is a matter of time all units will begin to manifest the problem if, as I suspect, is a manufacturing glitch. I also care a lot my Genos and don't use anything which may damage its surface, just distilled water (so there is no residue) and a soft cloth. But even doing that, when you press any key, there is some light abrasive action on them by our fingers, even if slight, which will remove some paint molecules... When you repeat that thousand times, if the material is not strong enough, it will fade. I have seen that on professional items which painting on them, as I worked on R&D on an electronics manufacturing company which used some painted keypads. Repeat use can kill even the most resistant paints.

And, on Genos, there is no protective layer over the buttons. Which gives me a hint  :)... Perhaps placing some transparent film on the keys will prevent them to fade. If we could find a suitable material, soft, easy to cut... Similar to old (non-glass) mobile phones protectors... May we have a chance to protect them before damage is done?. I would sacrifice somewhat (it could be made so it would be almost invisible) the looks if they are durable enough. At least for most used buttons, as registration ones. Just an idea!  ;)

Jose
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Robert van Weersch on April 21, 2019, 02:45:05 PM
It seems to me that the fading is not related to cleaning, but an effect of wear due to  usage, possibly combined with the specific composition of sweat and finger grease (which is different for each person). I've had several Yamaha devices, of which the longest period, a PSR 620, spanned more than 15 years. And it had no faded text anywhere, despite dragging it around to rehearsel rooms weekly, gigs and almost dayly usage. Actually, I've never had faded text on any keyboard, whatsoever. Quite embarassing that they messed this up on a TOTL device, which (did) cost(s) EUR 4000+.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: elad770 on May 02, 2019, 06:51:48 PM
Unfortunately I have a similar problem with fading "Song" button on my Genos (end 2017).

I have an idea: DO NOT PLAY SONGS!  ;)
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: panos on May 02, 2019, 08:31:22 PM
The extinction of letters on keyboards in our times.
Oh my God...This is Genoside! :)
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Toril S on May 02, 2019, 09:05:43 PM
LOL😀
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!! zaga continues !!!!
Post by: Al Ram on May 18, 2019, 03:28:14 AM
Well ... . . Yamaha replaced the registration buttons that were fading away.  That is good.

The bad news (for me) is that now the HOME button is also fading away !!!!!!

I will contact Yamaha Monday to see what can be done about it . . .

Will let you know.

thanks

Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!! zaga continues !!!!
Post by: EB5AGV on May 18, 2019, 10:53:17 AM
Well ... . . Yamaha replaced the registration buttons that were fading away.  That is good.

The bad news (for me) is that now the HOME button is also fading away !!!!!!

I will contact Yamaha Monday to see what can be done about it . . .

Will let you know.

thanks

I am afraid ALL buttons will fade sooner or later. And that is bad for all of us, Genos owners  :'(

Jose
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Sergey Kadyrov on May 18, 2019, 01:12:47 PM
We know that there’re famous building toys called “LEGO”. In the past I reviewed some of them. Despite of the reputation of a high quality product, in recent years it was rather common that some sets had missing parts, some painted elements (like faces) were easily scratched away, some specific parts (like remote controls) were too smelly.

You could order replacements free of charge, but can you imagine that you buy for your kid a big and expensive set on a Christmas or birthday, and during assembly (s)he realizes that (s)he can’t build the toy because some parts are missing? Coincidentally LEGO had decided as well that moving some productions to China will be a right thing to do.

We can assume that the rule in this business is “eat or be eaten”. Maximizing profits is not necessarily a result of a greed, because each company has to keep innovating as hard as they can, spending on it as much money as they can.

A consumer wants something new every day and the company which fails to satisfy this need is momentarily comes closer to bankruptcy, regardless of its today’s position. And we know that once a company starts to move in that direction, they try to sell their products for even higher prices.

As for the fading titles on Genos I’d say this. In my view, Genos is an expensive, yet not luxurious product. Unlike some acoustic grand pianos, or even stage pianos like CP1, it’s mostly a very practical thing. You are not paying for its looks or some handicraft, mostly you are purchasing the software within.

As I understand, most of ordinary acoustic upright pianos cost more than Genos. Making an analogy with cars, I’d say, Genos is not Mercedes, BMW or some Lexus. It is a contemporary car which is a top of its own line, but it’s intended to be priced within certain limits. Yamaha produces instruments for practical needs, not for private collections. This goes for LEGO toys which I mentioned above. They are expensive, but they are supposed to be bought by majority.

I guess CP1, or even CP73/88 are more about their appearances than Genos. But they are less fun. While I share your feelings, I guess we have to compromise on it. After all, an arranger keyboard is supposed to get dated rather fast. Just judging by how much the discussions are focused now on Genos now and all the previous models are now in a shadow it’s easy to picture that in few years all the attention will be focused on something new. So what’s left is to get what you can from this product today keeping in mind that in few years it won’t be this exciting even with a brand new look.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on May 18, 2019, 01:30:58 PM
Interesting points, Sergey.

It's equally interesting that the Tyros series was in the same class as you describe, and yet, their buttons never faded. If Yamaha has to use inferior buttons just to survive in the musical instrument world, then their finances must be in terrible shape. There are other ways they could save money other than using buttons that fade. Unfortunately, this is becoming a trend these days. When quality control goes right out the window with companies like Yamaha and Honda (don't even get me started on that off-topic) who used to be at the top of the pile, we're in trouble.

For users, the buttons are one of the most critical parts of the keyboard. It's like buying a car and the steering wheel slowly turns to soft rubber over a few years. We need robust labeling that stands the test of time as it did in the Tyros series. Just think of what faded buttons will do for the trade-in value :'(.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: ugawoga on May 20, 2019, 09:53:24 PM
Hi Lee
There is a lot of hoo haa about these buttons
I reckon it was a bad batch that sometimes escapes quality control
I have looked at mine here in the UK and they look well protected.
Anyway Yamaha would replace them for sure as for some it is a manufacturing fault

All the best John    :)
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Lee Batchelor on May 20, 2019, 10:17:07 PM
Agreed, John. So far, my buttons are as good as new. It is definitely possible for a bad batch to reach production. You're right, I'm sure Yamaha would step up to the plate and fix the problem.
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on May 24, 2019, 05:17:31 PM
FYI

I contacted Yamaha USA and explain the problem .. . . .  I believe maybe i got a bad batch of buttons.

I asked for ALL printed buttons to be replaced.  Not only the ones fading.

Yamaha said they did not have any other reports except mine.   They opened up a case and asked me pics which i sent this morning.

They said will research and let me know their decision.

I will keep you informed.

thanks
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Bud2 on June 04, 2019, 07:41:35 PM
They should replace them all if it is a bad batch, it would cost them nothing in comparison to the bad reports they would get from people who had to suffer a bad batch which were not replaced.
Bill
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Al Ram on June 05, 2019, 05:12:42 PM
Bill

You are absolutely right.  !!!!!

I contacted Yamaha and told them about the new buttons that are fading .. . .  I also said that i thought i had a bad batch of buttons and asked to replace them all . . .

Well not all, but all the buttons that have letters or numbers on it . . . . I count something like 42 (i do not have the Genos in front of me right now but i think i counted 42 total)

Yamaha opened up a case and after a couple of days they said they have extended the warranty until the end of this year 2019.   Labor and parts free of charge . . . . however, their email did not specify if i could take the keyboard and have them change all buttons at once or if it would be on a case by case basis . . . 

I called back to clarify but have not been able to connect.

This is really good from Yamaha because my one-year USA warranty actually expired early January 2019.

To me that means that i could take the keyboard now to replace the couple of buttons that are fading . . . . on the other hand, i might just wait until November to take them all at once . . .

Still thinking about it . . .

Thanks

Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Cheshire Chris on June 11, 2019, 07:49:11 AM
I'm surprised to hear that Yamaha only offer a 1-year warranty in the US. In the UK the warranty period is 5 years! I wonder why there's such a huge difference?

Best wishes,

Chris
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: tyrosaurus on June 11, 2019, 03:26:02 PM
I'm surprised to hear that Yamaha only offer a 1-year warranty in the US. In the UK the warranty period is 5 years! I wonder why there's such a huge difference?

Hi Chris,

The standard Yamaha Guarantee for most keyboards sold in the EEA (which includes UK) is currently 24 months.

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/warranty/index.html     

https://download.yamaha.com/files/tcm:39-627776#page=32   (opens PDF at UK start page)

As the page at the above link shows, Yamaha does have some extended warranty campaigns which offer up to five years total cover, but currently the only 'keyboard' instruments included in these are AvantGrand and Clavinova (CSP/CLP/CVP) pianos.

I think that you will find that the five year warranties that some UK dealers are currently offering, are actually the standard Yamaha one for the first two years, followed by a further three years support from the dealer.  The extent of cover during the final three years may be different from that offered by Yamaha, and of course assumes that the dealer is still in business then!

Still worth having though!


Regards

Ian

 
Title: Re: Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!
Post by: Cheshire Chris on June 11, 2019, 10:00:29 PM
Thanks for clarifying that, Ian. I currently have a Yamaha P-515 digital piano, and that has a 5-year guarantee. I seem to recall it got extended to 5 years by registering the instrument with Yamaha.

Best wishes,

Chris