PSR Tutorial Forum

Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: ton37 on May 19, 2018, 05:54:27 AM

Title: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: ton37 on May 19, 2018, 05:54:27 AM
Hi, the Genos doesn't have a separate tilt display. For many (as well it is for me) it is a questionable isue.
So, has anyone just tried to tilt the Genos in its entirety (e.g. heighten at the backsite). If so, does it increase the visibility of the display (and the digits above the knobs/sliders?) I guess it will??
And how is the feeling when playing the keys, concerning comfort and playablity.

If it 'works' what would be (for you?) the maximum raise, e.g. degrees for comfortable playing?

I can imagine that one has to reach less to the touchscreen and slider/knobs. That would be more ergonomic (for back/arm stretching/visibility etc.)

I see many keyboardists with 2 keyboards on a rack/standard on which the keyboard is reasonable tilt, that's why I came to this idea.

As I momentairly doesn't have a keyboard, I cannot try it myself. But I'm curious if it could work..?
Greetings, Ton
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: KeyboardByBiggs on May 19, 2018, 06:11:57 AM
For me, the way they've designed it I have no issues with using it as is. I'm sure you could tilt it quite a bit, up to the point it affects your ability to play the keys.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: keynote on May 19, 2018, 06:22:33 AM
The Genos has a somewhat tilted screen already. You are right in that there is no adjustable tilt display like they have on the Tyros. Yamaha engineers constructed what they considered an optimal degree of tilt for the Genos LCD display. When you sit to play the Genos the display is bright and easily readable. The same is true when you stand and play the Genos so there is really no reason or need to tilt the keyboard itself in order to achieve good results. Now if you have a duel setup with a two tier keyboard stand with the Genos on the top tier you could optionally adjust the stands keyboard mounts up or down to better suit your playing needs which would also tilt the Genos display forward or backward accordingly. Most people play the Genos on a regular keyboard stand that is also level which is normally how you would play a keyboard (piano).

Mike
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Al Ram on May 19, 2018, 06:26:10 AM
Ton
I had the same reaction at first.   However,  after getting the Genos and playing it, i have found no issues or need to further tilt the Genos screen.     Having said that, i am not sure that if you play in the sun or direct light you would need to tilt the screen . . . . accordingly.     

but so far no issues for me.

thanks

 
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: travlin-easy on May 19, 2018, 01:08:23 PM
Keep in mind that all of the newer keyboard utilize supertwist displays, which can be seen very well at any angle - no need for a tilt screen.

Gary
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: ton37 on May 19, 2018, 02:57:29 PM
Thanks you for your  (reassuring) reactions. I Will Keep that in Mind when I going to try out the Genos next week. Each New Technical design is a mix between technicians views and economics importance. Sometimes the ergonomics is then less important. But that's simply  a buyer's choice  ::)
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: EileenL on May 19, 2018, 08:13:41 PM
You will find the screen really comfortable to use. With outside playing I had to have a shield when playing my Tyros 5 in strong sunlight but Genos is a lot clearer.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lloyd E on May 19, 2018, 09:34:44 PM
The Genos screen is easy to use without the need for a tilting screen. It looks a lot nicer and works fine without tilting at all. Get used to the screen and you will be happy,.  Lloyd
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Al Ram on May 20, 2018, 12:12:14 AM
You will find the screen really comfortable to use. With outside playing I had to have a shield when playing my Tyros 5 in strong sunlight but Genos is a lot clearer.

Eileen
what type of shield ?

thanks
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: travlin-easy on May 20, 2018, 04:00:39 AM
Al, years ago, when displays were totally unreadable outdoors, we made screen shrouds that resembled an air scoop on an old hot rod car out of black construction paper and held them in place with velcro strips placed around the edge of the display housing. Worked great.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Al Ram on May 20, 2018, 04:38:01 AM
Gary

thanks a lot. It is good to know if playing outdoors, however, it seems that is no longer needed.

thanks again.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: EileenL on May 20, 2018, 04:39:01 AM
I used similar to Gary but made mine from card board.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: jerryghr on May 20, 2018, 06:25:47 AM
They are now making clip on shades for portable devices.  Would work on tilt displays outdoors.

Here is one example:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OUKZMR2/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00OUKZMR2&pd_rd_wg=x6mD8&pd_rd_r=DPRYMT1Y1G370QBBWQDB&pd_rd_w=6bKrm



Regards,

Jerryghr


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Al Ram on May 20, 2018, 07:29:17 AM
They are now making clip on shades for portable devices.  Would work on tilt displays outdoors.

Here is one example:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OUKZMR2/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00OUKZMR2&pd_rd_wg=x6mD8&pd_rd_r=DPRYMT1Y1G370QBBWQDB&pd_rd_w=6bKrm

Jerryghr

it looks good !   i wonder about the size for Genos, . . . .   

Regards,
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on May 20, 2018, 07:32:10 AM
.........With outside playing I had to have a shield when playing my Tyros 5 in strong sunlight but Genos is a lot clearer.

Have had real problems  at garden parties with Tyros. Glad to hear Eileen they will be less with Genos, so far it is too cold for garden parties in Finland   :(

Cheers

Kaarlo

Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: travlin-easy on May 20, 2018, 10:30:21 AM
Kaarlo, the last time I was in that part of the world, they only had two seasons - winter and winter. ;) It was always too cold! ;)

Gary 8)
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on May 22, 2018, 05:49:00 AM
Kaarlo, the last time I was in that part of the world, they only had two seasons - winter and winter. ;) It was always too cold! ;)

Gary 8)

Yes Gary, you are right and we in deed have  the saying

                                "Our summer is short, but it is not snowing all the time."

I am playing outdoors on June 6th, and 26th. Will be around  49 F.  By the way I know NOBODY who has visited as many countries as you have.

Cheer

Kaarlo

(http://)


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on May 22, 2018, 05:52:39 AM
Great pic, Kaarlo!!

Is that straw attached to a trumpet or a bottle ;D?
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on May 24, 2018, 09:15:15 AM
Hi Lee,
that silicone tube goes to the breath controller Neil Steiner gave me the schematics for some 30 years ago

                                 http://www.patchmanmusic.com/NyleSteinerHomepage.html

so I could build the breath controller myself. It has both a VCA and a VCF so if you route the wind instruments on Tyros or Genos to the Aux out you can blow your wind instruments to sound like real ones using the  excellent trumpets and saxes available as presets.
The old brass trumpet is just for show business and  I  am regularly asked whether the tube is connected to a bottle of whisky. To which I say, "you seem to know Louis Armstrong always had a glass hidden in the huge towel he would wipe his face with - I saw him live in Hamburg  taking a sip all the time. He will forever remain my Idol, but take a look, this tube goes into the preamp."

Was out in my garden to-day with the Genos and I had the impression you can see the display in sun light especially if you make a  "roof" for the display out of black cardboard and tape it to the housing which is easily done.  I feel here is not need for any tilting.

Cheers

Kaarlo

Cheers

Kaarlo

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: markstyles on May 25, 2018, 08:02:06 PM
While I always liked and tilted the screen on a T5.... I find no issue with the Genos screen as is..  From a practical point of view, the tilting screen was a good candidate for an accident. 
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: DerekA on May 25, 2018, 08:56:52 PM
I've just moved up to the Tyros 5, and I really like the tilting screen. Even though the screen layout is the same as the S770 it's much easier to use along with the sliders.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: gerarde on May 25, 2018, 09:43:30 PM
I took a small cardboard box, cut off one side, then cut all sides to lower it, faced the opening to me, and works perfect in the sun.
I may spray paint it black to look better.

Gerard
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: ton37 on May 26, 2018, 03:40:57 AM
Hi, a short update. After weigh and weigh I finally made it up and have bought (again) a mint Tyros 5-76 for a very reasonable price. That is a personal choice, but the T5 offers me so much of what I need (even more than that). The soundquality and the musical potency are more than enough for ME. In relation to this post/subject: if I could choose between a Genos with or without a tilt display, I certainly go for a tilted screen. In my homestudio I work with lightning just above the keyboard so that my old eyes easily can read the musicsheets etc. The flat display of the Genos reflects the lamp, what is a bit annoyance. Ofcourse, that is soluble, but adjusting no needed with the T5. Coming years I’m assured to have a great keyboard at my disposal, and once the Genos 2 will appear in the market. Maybe, just maybe then again I will scratching my head??
Ofcourse it is pure a personal choice, and I respect everybodies choice. The mean reason is that one enjoy making music with whichever keyboard you have. I want everybody to be a happy musician and share the joy of playing with keyboards.
Regards Ton 8)
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on May 26, 2018, 08:44:28 AM
......In my homestudio I work with lightning just above the keyboard so that my old eyes easily can read the musicsheets etc. The flat display of the Genos reflects the lamp, what is a bit annoyance.
Regards Ton 8)

Ton you are right. I also happen to  have a lighting fixture right over the Genos in my studio. I have had to leave that lamp unlit due to the reflection. Not a big problem for me as like Errol Garner  ;D  I am not able to play a keyboard from sheet music. With a saxophone it is easy as you have your fingers in the right place automatically, on a keyboard I must look to know where I am.

Cheers

Kaarlo
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Audrey Turner on May 27, 2018, 05:17:49 AM
Hello Everyone,

I didn't like the non tilt DARK screen either, but on reading the User Manual I discovered there is a way to brighten it using the - "Changing the Brightness of Lighting Buttons" - shown on page 25 of the Owner's Manual. You are given options on how bright to have it and I moved my screen to it's very highest option and for me, it works very well.  Thought you might like to know this.

Audrey Turner
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on May 27, 2018, 05:46:04 AM
Thanks, Audrey! I had forgotten about that adjustment.

You're fairly new here, I believe. Welcome aboard :)!

- Lee
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Depo1964 on May 29, 2018, 02:29:35 AM
Not having received my Genos yet, and not directly related to the specific question....

however, could using an ipad pro help facilitate this problem?

Could the ipad pro duplicate what is seen on the Genos screen?

Could the ipad pro also duplicate any changes made?  :-\
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Al Ram on May 29, 2018, 03:39:59 AM

Could the ipad pro duplicate what is seen on the Genos screen?


i have Genos and iPad Pro 12.9.  Do not know any way that can be done . . . .

I use the iPad Pro to see my PDF's.   So, i believe that in this case, seeing the Genos screen on the iPad would conflict with seeing the PDF's.

thanks   
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on May 29, 2018, 04:37:56 AM
I played an outdoor gig this past weekend. We were under a tent with no direct sun light, but plenty of daylight. I refuse to play in open sunlight conditions for two reasons: you sit there and bake, and the birds are not to be trusted with their periodic aerial bowel movements!

There were no problems reading the screen. In similar conditions with my T5, I would have had to change the angle a bit - perhaps more than I was used to.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on May 29, 2018, 09:14:23 AM
quote : I refuse to play in open sunlight conditions for two reasons: you sit there and bake, and the birds are not to be trusted with their periodic aerial bowel movements! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Lee,

I did that last Sunday and the dinner jacket went to the cleaner   >:( >:( >:(  BTW some birds do dissipate stuff that one must immediately wipe off the keyboard as it may if left on leave marks that later cannot be removed.

Cheers

Kaarlo
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on May 29, 2018, 08:46:55 PM
Agreed, Kaarlo.

A few years back, I did a gig in "open air" but in the shade, which was fine. I set up my MOX8 and SoundCraft mixer. The mixer was at the right end of my keyboard, about eight inches away and angled, so I could adjust sound with my right hand, on the fly (no pun intended!). The gig location was along the shores of a large river, with copious numbers of seagulls. After the setup, I went to the washroom and came back to notice a huge puddle of seagull do-do between the upper octave of the MOX8 and mixer - on the ground! The seagull had a major dump but missed my gear. How? I don't know. I was astounded! If the seagull had hit the upper octaves of the MOX8, it would have been unplayable, and I would have ended up with a repair bill of around $400 (CDN). I made the decision that night to refuse any open air gigs. The next day, our band leader went out and bought one of those portable 10' x 10' tents.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: beekay on May 31, 2018, 05:30:02 AM
Hi Folks
If you find it difficult to see the Genos tilted screen why not try raising your seat a little - it works for me.

Hi Audrey
I raised the question of increasing the light level with my dealer and it made no difference to the screen - it only appears to increase the light on the buttons (registrations etc).

Regards
Brian
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on May 31, 2018, 07:13:02 AM

.....increasing the light ...... made no difference to the screen - it only appears to increase the light on the buttons .....

Regards
Brian

Hi Brian,

You are 100 % correct. On my Genos raising the luminosity of the buttons,   which is very useful indoors in strong lighting, does not  affect the display.
The problem with the buttons is they are not recessed like on the Tyros 5  but sticking out so  they are flooded with the light of the sun outdoors even in the evening when it stands low. Therefore raising their luminosity does not help enough.  You will as Lee Batchelor has pointed out need to be standing under some sort of roof. Even a thin white tent is ample remedy. 

I  was playing outside on Sunday  and could not see which button was lit unless I put my hand  over them.
But that was the same on Tyros 5 and all my complaints  about Genos always have the Tyros  as  reference.   

Cheers

Kaarlo
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: markstyles on June 04, 2018, 05:15:54 AM
I quickly got used to flat Genos display and like it.  I was always worried a bit about Tyros display, one small accident would have broken display off, or locked in an up position.

One less thing to break in my opinion.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on June 04, 2018, 06:02:01 AM
I quickly got used to flat Genos display and like it.  I was always worried a bit about Tyros display, one small accident would have broken display off, or locked in an up position.

One less thing to break in my opinion.

"One less thing to break in my opinion." Correct.  Strange, maybe one should have been worried, all the Tyros keyboards had the tilt feature. Never was worried  and nothing ever happened during a whole decade.
There were out door situations where the tilt  really helped. But it could break and it adds weight.

Had an outdoors gig yesterday. 2 - 10 PM. No direct sunshine as trees gave shade, but the Genos display was "looking" at a cloudless sky. No way to see anything on the display without  the carbon fiber  shield. The Tyros tilt screen never "looked" at the sky.

Cheers

Kaarlo   
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: travlin-easy on June 05, 2018, 02:17:54 AM
Kaarlos, you can always tilt the keyboard, which is what we did many years ago to solve that problem. I used rubber door-stop wedges placed under the back edge of the keyboard and held to the stand arms with heavy rubber bands.

Gary 8)
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Gloria on June 05, 2018, 03:31:58 AM
Kaarlos, I must say - - your picture of a "one man band" really made me do a fast "double take!"   ;)
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: ton37 on June 05, 2018, 04:37:21 AM
Kaarlos, you can always tilt the keyboard, which is what we did many years ago to solve that problem. I used rubber door-stop wedges placed under the back edge of the keyboard and held to the stand arms with heavy rubber bands.

Gary 8)
Right Gary, that's just what I meant in my OP  ;) . I was wondering 'if' that could help, how much your keyboard can be tilted without losing a comfortable keyboard handling, greetings Ton
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: travlin-easy on June 05, 2018, 09:56:55 AM
Ton, I have tiled them up to 30 degrees from horizontal with no playing problems.

Gary 8)
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on June 06, 2018, 08:51:39 AM
Hi Everybody,
to-day there was no sun. Made attached photos.  Came to the conclusion the umbrella was best so if one big sturdy is available on the site the problem is solved. If not one needs something in the direction of

http://www.quiklok.com/catalog/index.php?p=galleryGalleryShow&iId=791&iIdLink=553&iType=1

with a canvas suspended between modified parts for the upper keyboard.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: gerarde on June 06, 2018, 11:17:38 AM
Just cut a small cardboard box like I did and yhen you do not have to tilt.
It works perfect in the sun.

Gerard
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 06, 2018, 08:52:22 PM
Gerard, how do you prevent the the box from blowing away in the wind? I know you can use Velcro, but I don't want to glue one side of Velcro to a $6,000 keyboard! It would destroy the resale value :(.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 06, 2018, 08:54:56 PM
Kaarlo, are you really comparing apples to apples in those two pics? Do they not represent two keyboards under totally different lighting conditions? Personally, I refuse to play outside unless there is cover (shade). All my clients and band mates know this :).
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: gerarde on June 06, 2018, 09:10:22 PM
Lee,
It is only about 3 inches high.
I have not had any problems with wind so far.
I will try and take a pic of it so you can see it.
I still have to spray paint it black yet.

Gerard
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 06, 2018, 09:41:17 PM
Great, thanks Gerard!
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: gerarde on June 06, 2018, 10:39:31 PM
Lee,
Here is the pic.
Crude but works fine.
Get a box about 12 inches in width so it fits.

Gerard

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on June 06, 2018, 11:07:37 PM
Gerard, how do you prevent the the box from blowing away in the wind? I know you can use Velcro, but I don't want to glue one side of Velcro to a $6,000 keyboard! It would destroy the resale value :(.

Hi Lee,
I have been using adhesive Velcro on all my Tyros keyboards (and now on the Genos Nr.1 that the dealer took back)   for a decade and the military drones we manufacture and removing it by pulling it gently back over itself, not upward, has so far never left any marks which attests to the fact that the YAMAHA  surface finish is of very high quality, e.g. sticks to the housing even when Velcro has been sitting on it for several years.

Now this is the Velcro they sell in Finland, but I believe it is the same all everywhere as to the type of tack glue they use. To make sure you might want to stick it to the bottom of your Genos for a while to test.
I know from our "Manufacturers' serial number stickers"  there are glues that will not un-stick without damaging he underlying surface which is required by our laws, but I have so far not encountered Velcro with that strong a glue.

"Are you really comparing apples to apples in those two pics? Do they not represent two keyboards under totally different lighting conditions?" 
Good question.  The pictures were done within 15 minutes of each other so the lighting conditions were the same. You are correct that one was the Tyros with the tilt screen tilted under an umbrella and the Genos was without an umbrella because I was not physically able to shield it with an umbrella and take a picture as the screen cannot not be tilted.   My idea was to show that in MHO you do need a shield in both cases, be it a tilt or non tilt display.

It would have been a good idea to take a photo of the Tyros without the umbrella also.  I took for granted that Tyros owners know if you keep it flat "looking at the sky" even if there is no sun you cannot read it, which is true for most any display, even my MacBook Pro (17-inch, Mid 2010) which I bought at that time because it was better that anything else for adjusting our drones out on the shooting ranges.
 
My idea was to prove what you have stated I feel is correct:  at outdoors gigs you need a tent or whatever.

I also liked the two keyboards standing close to one-another making Tyros look clumsy compared to Genos. And as fact weight and size (and sliders)   have been for me the the reasons that have weight (pun intended :)))

Cheers

Kaarlo
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 06, 2018, 11:40:18 PM
Great info, Kaarlo. I didn't know we could get Velcro with a non-residue glue. I'll check into that. Thanks :)!
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on June 06, 2018, 11:59:07 PM
Lee,
Here is the pic.
Crude but works fine.
Get a box about 12 inches in width so it fits.

Gerard

Thanks Gerard,
one picture tells more than - was it a hundred or a thousand ?  words.  Will build one and keep you posted.  Just to make sure I order the correct size carbon plates,  would you mind listing all the dimensions of your box (roundings excluded) ? I am under the impression I already sent a posting about this, but as so often I seem to push the wrong button  :(

Cheers

Kaarlo
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: gerarde on June 07, 2018, 01:26:52 AM
Karlo,

Dimensions are 12 wide by 5 high by 6 deep.
The box was bigger but I just kept cutting it until it was right for me.

Gerard
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: zionip on June 09, 2018, 05:27:27 PM
Gerard's cardboard box is very nice low-cost solution for Genos non-tiltable screen under strong overhead light.  The only shortcoming of such a solution is its portability.

This prompted me to start a proof of concept product test of a relatively low cost, US$6.95, 9.7" Tablet FPV Monitor Sunshade Sun Hood for DJI Phantom 3 Transmitter Remote Controller Quick Release iPad Holder Clip Mount - White:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VWC5MBM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This product is in white color outside (so it does not get hot as quickly as the black ones under the sun), and is made of Faux leather outside, with dull black velvet like material inside to prevent light reflection.  It uses Velcro design, easy to install and disassemble:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1751/40878100450_c24601f749_z.jpg)

This sunhood can be folded into 12 x 7 x 3/8 inch for easy transport and storage, weighs about 240g (8.46 oz):
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1752/42638348422_7d9a72a976_z.jpg)

Player's view of the sunhood covering Genos screen, assembled sunhood dimensions: 10 (W) x 7 1/8 (D) x 7 inch (H):
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1723/42687094061_10398210a4_b.jpg)

Side view:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1749/42687094231_b1be099ed7_b.jpg)

If you prefer a black sunhood for your Genos for indoor playing, you can find product similar to the following:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/9-7-Inch-Monitor-Foldable-Sunshade-Sun-Shade-Hood-for-DJI-Inspire-1-iPad-Air/311755091707?hash=item48960d2efb

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on June 09, 2018, 08:49:33 PM
The Genos screen is easy to use without the need for a tilting screen. It looks a lot nicer and works fine without tilting at all. Get used to the screen and you will be happy,.  Lloyd

Hi Lloyd,
Thanks for an interesting posting.   "Get used to the screen and you will be happy".  There seem to be a lot of Genos owners who are not happy, but maybe there is something wrong with their eyesight. 

I believe those who have been on this site for some time  may wonder that whenever someone claims Genos in some respect is still not perfect, someone will post he is wrong, it is just a matter of getting used to it.    I have had mine since January and still have not, so be warned, getting used may take more time than anticipated.

Cheers

Kaarlo
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 09, 2018, 09:01:33 PM
Neat product, Paul. I wonder if it would block some of the view to my music stand that contains all my charts.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Pianoman on June 09, 2018, 09:53:08 PM
Come on guys.
Let's just admit for once that a tilt screen would have been better.

We are missing the point here, namely that it has come down to needing cardboard
boxes and velcro on such a beautiful instrument.

And depending on whether one is sitting or standing when playing, the box would have
to be high enough in order not to hinder vision and freedom of movement on the screen.

What would the audience think?

Pieces of cardboard and Velcro on a 4000€ instrument? Really?

Best Regards.
Abby.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Fred Smith on June 09, 2018, 10:04:10 PM
Long ago, Gary Diamond posted that he insists a canopy be provided for all his outdoor gigs. Seeing the screen was only one issue. In addition, both the keyboard and the performer need protection from the elements.

It’s still the best advice for outdoor gigs. And it came long before non-tiltable screens.

Fred
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Pianoman on June 09, 2018, 10:34:18 PM
Long ago, Gary Diamond posted that he insists a canopy be provided for all his outdoor gigs. Seeing the screen was only one issue. In addition, both the keyboard and the performer need protection from the elements.

It’s still the best advice for outdoor gigs. And it came long before non-tiltable screens.

Fred

Even more reason to have a tiltable screen.

My feeling is that we shall see a return of the tilt screen on the next Genos.

Best Regards.
Abby.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 09, 2018, 10:52:07 PM
If they build a tiltable, touch screen, it needs to be VERY robust, otherwise it will be destroyed within a year. We never poked at the T5 screen :).
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: beykock on June 09, 2018, 11:11:44 PM
Never heard any complaints from PSR S users their screen is not tiltable.

Is it a " tiltable " problem or is it more the touch screen of the Genos ?

I remember many Tyros players always liked the knobs and did not want to have a touch screen. IMHO.

Babette
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Fred Smith on June 09, 2018, 11:33:48 PM
Even more reason to have a tiltable screen.

My feeling is that we shall see a return of the tilt screen on the next Genos.


How is a tiltable screen going to protect you or your equipment from the elements?

How is a tiltable screen going to be easier to read in bright sunlight?

I don't see Genos ever having a tiltable screen.

Fred
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Pianoman on June 09, 2018, 11:37:41 PM
If they build a tiltable, touch screen, it needs to be VERY robust, otherwise it will be destroyed within a year. We never poked at the T5 screen :).


I am sure that Yamaha will take that into account and build a robust screen support.

Best Regards.
Abby.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Pianoman on June 09, 2018, 11:45:42 PM
How is a tiltable screen going to protect you or your equipment from the elements?

How is a tiltable screen going to be easier to read in bright sunlight?

I don't see Genos ever having a tiltable screen.

Fred

If people are now obliged to employ pieces of cardboard in order to read the screen, wouldn't
a tiltable screen be a step in the right direction anyway?

I have performed in broad daylight yesterday on a Tyros, had no problem reading the screen,
and thoroughly enjoyed the elements.

I even got myself a good suntan in the process.

Best Regards.
Abby.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: ton37 on June 09, 2018, 11:47:04 PM
If they build a tiltable, touch screen, it needs to be VERY robust, otherwise it will be destroyed within a year. We never poked at the T5 screen :).
Mmm.. I have poked many years on this one, not on the display, nevertheless  ;)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: EileenL on June 10, 2018, 12:24:04 AM
I played outside a couple of times with my Tyros 5 and no matter how I tilted the screen I still could not see it.
  Aways best to have some protection from the sun and after that I insisted on having an awning to play under.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Pianoman on June 10, 2018, 12:25:52 AM
This is my gear, indoors with the Tyros tilted.

I use it indoors but have started to play outdoors since about 2 months ago,
and will continue doing so till September 30th.

I can read the screen perfectly well outdoors.

As you can see, the instruments are still in pristine condition despite using them
outdoors, apart from the microphone stand that I bought in Germany in 1978.

Best Regards 
Abby.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: XeeniX on June 10, 2018, 12:56:59 AM
Sigh,

I do not and will not take part in the endless Genos pro/contra discussions but MY MY what a nice and stylish living room and even more important what an awesome view you have from there Abby. Makes me eny you a little :D

best regards,
Peter




Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 10, 2018, 12:59:32 AM
Okay, everybody over to Abby's house for a party! Great setup and view!!!
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: zionip on June 10, 2018, 02:13:30 AM
Okay, everybody over to Abby's house for a party! Great setup and view!!!

Sigh,

I do not and will not take part in the endless Genos pro/contra discussions but MY MY what a nice and stylish living room and even more important what an awesome view you have from there Abby. Makes me eny you a little :D

best regards,
Peter

Hi Lee and Peter,

It looks like Abby showed a photo of his setup at one of his indoor job locations, most likely a hotel, not the living room of his house.  We can deduce this from the restaurant style tables and chairs, the outdoor multiple beach recliners, and the positions of the speakers are at the back of the player, projecting sound to the audience.  Abby's cable / power extension management using Velcro ties is excellent for the job, very tidy and neat.
 
Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Pianoman on June 10, 2018, 02:39:41 AM
Alas, this is not my house.

Paul got it right. It is one of the hotels where I play. I do have a beachfront view
in front of my apartment though.
 

Best Regards.
Abby.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Lee Batchelor on June 10, 2018, 06:05:38 AM
Makes sense. Besides, if that were Abby's living room, they're paying musicians more than I thought, where he lives :).
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: XeeniX on June 10, 2018, 07:14:22 AM
Details...... who cares :D I'd settle for a working space like that  :P
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Kaarlo von Freymann on June 10, 2018, 08:39:37 AM
If they build a tiltable, touch screen, it needs to be VERY robust, otherwise it will be destroyed within a year. We never poked at the T5 screen :).

Hi Everyone,
had to switch from my Genos  to my Tyros (I still carry it with me as a back up) in the middle of a gig this week  because my Genos developed a 50 Hz hum (like the one you hear if the ground in a shielded cable gets detached.  In this case  strangely it turned out it was not a cable problem but an internal defect. Connecting the same cables to the Tyros = no hum. (The Genos is at the service at this moment)  so of course I kept touching  the Tyros screen with no result instead of pushing the buttons, as touching was what I had been doing. The tilted  display did not seem to mind that - of course just did not react.

That of course  is not proof it might not be a problem if it would be touched thousands of times so Lee might be right.
  But if the screen can take the button pushing it might also be able to take the touching.  After all touch screens are touch-screens, not "poking-screens" if calibrated properly. My screen reacts to very light touching.
Will be interesting to see what was the reason for the internal hum, a cold soldering joint or whatever.
Anyway it is clear a fixed screen is both cheaper to manufacture, less accident prone and lighter in weight.  But a tilt screen does have obvious advantages. 

Cheers

Kaarlo
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: travlin-easy on June 11, 2018, 10:55:01 AM
I talked with Yamaha several years ago about their display inadequacies, to which they replied with some simple statistics. I know these are factual, at least from my own experiences over many decades of performing on stage.

First and foremost, less than 1/10th of 1-percent of arranger keyboards are used for outdoor performances. That a pretty small number of consumers to spend time and money upon for any successful business. Additionally, the vast majority of all outdoor performers, including myself, insist on some sort of cover, not just to see the displays better, but additionally, to protect both themselves and their equipment from the elements, rain, intense heat, hail, snow (which happened to me on one occasion), you name it, it can happen.

Most of the outdoor jobs I performed over the years were either in poolside, Tiki Bars, or private parties for major corporations. Even when playing beneath a large porch roof, I had a great deal of difficulty seeing the displays and button lights on the PSR-3000, which was my workhorse at the time. When I got the S-950, the display had improved significantly, however, you could not use it in direct sunlight and expect to see both the display and buttons clearly enough to perform - same is true with the Tyros series. They are not supertwist, backlighted, LED displays, such as those used in the marine industry. I recently learned that the displays on marine HD GPS-plotters are the most expensive component in the device. (figures!) The remaining components are relatively inexpensive.

So, all this gnashing of teeth, biting of finger nails, and internet bitching will not accomplish much at all. Take a serious look at the number of outdoor performers in your neck of the woods that is even using an arranger keyboard - it amounts to a speck of fly poop in a mountain pepper. Most of the outdoor performers I've come across in my life have been guitar and accordion players - not keyboard or synth players. They show up with their guitar or accordion, plug into an inexpensive amp, fire up their gear and play and sing.

When someone, such as myself shows up with an arranger keyboard at an outdoor job, the very first thing we look for is deep shade in the form of a tent or gazebo. Now, that tent or gazebo better have some drop curtains for when the sun begins to go down. If not, you are screwed big time. When I performed in the Florida Keys, when the sun went down, the dew was so heavy that it dripped off the gazebo's thatched roof like it was raining outside. Imagine all that condensation falling on your expensive gear - not a pretty sight.

My GPS/Plotter that is use for my sailboat sells for $1,200 and has a 7-inch HD display. To me, it's a valuable safety device that makes life on the water a lot safer and easier. It has a super-twist, backlighted LED display that actually gets brighter in direct sunlight. It interfaces with my onboard 3G radar system and Automatic Identification System (AIS). It has as many features as any arranger keyboard on the market, and just like the newer arranger keyboards, there is a steep learning curve that every user must endure to become proficient with the device.

Kaarlos claims there are lots of unhappy Genos owners. Kaarlos, this is not the case with the handful of Genos owners I know personally. Each and every one of the half-dozen owners I have been in close contact with love each and every aspect of their Genos. As I have stated many times in the past, if the Genos is not everything you wanted in an arranger keyboard, then don't buy it! Do some serious research and spend some time traveling to get some hands-on experience with other makes and models that may fulfill your needs more than the Genos, or another Yamaha model. I've done this with arranger keyboards, PA systems, mics, boats, engines - you name it. When I make a serious purchase of anything, it is done after spending lots of time and effort to determine if it will do the job I wish. If it doesn't fit the bill, I don't buy it - it's that simple.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: EileenL on June 11, 2018, 08:23:54 PM
Exactly Gary,
  There have been so many negative posts on this keyboard and I for one have been satisfied with it from the moment I took it out of the box. Mind you I am a sit and play person. What you see is what you get. No Mid Files or plug in's at my gigs. I just sit down and play and I am always asked back.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Bachus on June 11, 2018, 09:40:32 PM
Exactly Gary,
  There have been so many negative posts on this keyboard and I for one have been satisfied with it from the moment I took it out of the box. Mind you I am a sit and play person. What you see is what you get. No Mid Files or plug in's at my gigs. I just sit down and play and I am always asked back.

It doesn’t matter how good a product is, there is allways something negatively to be found...

Where it comes to this topic, based on many people using their keyboard for outdoor gigs, one must admit not having a tilted screen is a miss...

But then, us homeplayers don’t care for that, as we only use our keys safely in the home...

Seems like Yamaha forgot about a lesson it learned in the past, you need a tilting screen if you want to play outside..

I can post a few dozens of small shortcommings about the Genos(and have done so in the past) yet, i still do agree that the Genos is the best arranger keyboard out there for most people...  but then if your job requires you to use your keyboard outside a lot, you might disagree with this..

I think i would agree with the fact that not having a tilting screen is not the wisiest thing, espescially since i can’t think of any reason not to have a tilting screen..
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: EileenL on June 11, 2018, 10:02:49 PM
This editing can still be done on Genos just as we did on our tyros keyboards. The only difference is that you now press Step Record to see your tracks. The only thing I have found missing is on Groove. When grooving a style the ALL button is not there but I have spoken to Yamaha tech dept about this.
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: travlin-easy on June 11, 2018, 11:10:35 PM
Bachus, I'm fairly confident that my wife of 56 years could sit down and list a couple dozen shortcomings about me, but after more than a half-century she still keeps me around. ;) As for a tilt screen being a  must for outdoor performances, not really. I have personally performed hundreds of outdoor venues without a tilt screen. I always managed to muddle through the jobs, get paid and thought to myself, "Why in the **** am I doing outdoor jobs?"

Pierre, from my perspective, you can still do those things, but there are different approaches or steps that must be taken. Also, keep in mind that very few individuals want to undergo the learning curve to do all that editing of styles, midi files, etc... on their keyboards - they just want to sit down and play, just the same as they did on a piano many years ago. The big difference is, now they have  a full band behind them and it's much more fun.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Fred Smith on June 12, 2018, 01:01:18 AM
Hey!
Yes, I know what I can do. Have had all Tyros models, but Genos is not in Tyros class yet.

This is how I wrote in January to Yamaha!

Hey!
In Style Creator for Tyros, there was a way to adjust the volume for the entire style with Boost / Cut
but in Genos you can only take A, B, C, D etc. each and every one, heaven hardly, I lacking the variant ALL
hope it will be back in the next upgrade.


And Groove too in style, and there are more things to do, to make it easier.

Now it has been 6 months and nothing has happened, do they work in Japan or has the programmer closed his workshop?
Same as you have to load the midi file every time, was not needed in Tyros.
One more thing, want to load a whole text-file (*.txt) in the editor to make complete midfile with lyrics and split
the words with - as in those big programs. A little too hard do in today's version in Genos.

I have no doubt there will be additional features added to the Genos OS, just like Voice Guide was in 1.30. But these kind of enhancements take a lot more time to develop and distribute than most people think or want.

If you want to maximize the chances your enhancement request will be included, you need to provide as much detail as possible. You need to make it easy for the programmers to understand what you want done. Programmers get lots of complaints. What they need is guidance.

Tell them where you want the "All" icon. Tell them how you want it to operate.

I know this level of detail is tougher than a complaint, but the results will be worth it.

Fred
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: Al Ram on June 12, 2018, 03:59:28 AM
As I have stated many times in the past, if the Genos is not everything you wanted in an arranger keyboard, then don't buy it! Do some serious research and spend some time traveling to get some hands-on experience with other makes and models that may fulfill your needs more than the Genos, or another Yamaha model. I've done this with arranger keyboards, PA systems, mics, boats, engines - you name it. When I make a serious purchase of anything, it is done after spending lots of time and effort to determine if it will do the job I wish. If it doesn't fit the bill, I don't buy it - it's that simple.

Gary 8)

Gary
I totally agree . . . . .

Conclusions from this posts ?   Genos display does not tilt . . . .   

I believe the horse has been beaten to death on this one . . . .

Suggestion:  close this post . . . .

thanks
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: ton37 on June 12, 2018, 04:03:51 AM
Amen  ;)
Title: Re: No Tilt Display! why not Tilt the Genos?
Post by: travlin-easy on June 12, 2018, 06:28:19 AM
Done!