PSR Tutorial Forum
Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: guitpic1 on February 18, 2018, 03:33:15 PM
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Had Yamaha just reinvented the Tyros, and I’ve owned and gigged with a Tyros 4, I wouldn’t have bought it.
Genos is different.
For one thing it’s much more live sounding than any other Yamaha arranger I’ve owned. I think this is due in large part to the approach Genos has to compression/limiting. So far, the compressor limiter system has worked well for me to control volume and still keep the live sound that works well for gigging.
I think the Genos EQ/COMPRESSION system is not an error as some think on this forum. I think it was intentionally designed to work the way it does.
One big reason I sold my Tyros 4 and went to a Korg PA4X, is because it had more of a live sound...big deal when gigging. The PA4X final EQ system didn’t squash the sound through compression....bass sounded more like bass...drums like drums.
Weight. It’s hard to find a 76 key arranger under 30lbs. Much easier to grip and carry.
Big touch screen...nice lay out.
Styles and voices really fit for my gigging/playing needs.
Like I said, Genos is different...quite a bit different than my Tyros 4. Eileen has suggested that what may seem to be a problem on Genos is actually just a different way of doing things. I think she is right.
Having come from the PA4X, I can appreciate changes that Yamaha tried to make in Genos...glad Yamaha made the effort.
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Vanray,
The administrator of this forum has set some groundrules for posting at this forum (see topic guidelines)
”Members must be polite and courteous at all times. Posts that contain rude or foul language, are argumentative, or criticize others are not permitted and may be edited or deleted by the moderators. Repeated or flagrant abuses of forum guidelines can result in membership termination”.
[Note: I have removed Vanray's post. -- Joe W]
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Good post Guitpic1, positive I like.
Cheers
Terry
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Vanray,
Each person has their opinion.
I respect each persons opinion, even yours.
And I am also respectful when I respond to another persons opinion.
What works for one person may not work for another.
I would never say another persons post is laughable.
Gerard
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As I understand it, audio compression reduces volume based on the compression ratio and threshold settings. For example, if we set the threshold at 10 db and the ratio is 4:1, the sound is reduced in volume by a factor of 4.
10 db divided by 4 db = 2.5 db
Our new sound only gets 2.5 db louder, instead of 10 db louder. That is a reduction in volume. It's because of compression that you can 'then' increase the output of the compressor back up to the level of the input signal. Therefore, the compressor compresses the signal, the overall volume drops, and then you bring the overall volume up.
I wonder if the Genos compressor automates both processes, making it "appear" that it increases volume? Is it designed to do the compression, and then automate the increase in volume instead of us having to do it manually? Hence, the end product is an increase in volume - counter to what VanRay describes. He's right, in that compressors do not increase volume - we do, after the compression has been done electronically.
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Your comment is Laughable, and totally incorrect .
Vanray, I expected such a response. I could be wrong about this but I don’t think I am.
I’ve got a recording studio as well and have worked with compression, limiting, normalization and the like.
What I think seems strange to some folks on this forum is that compression doesn’t work as it did in the past...i.e. increase compression to squash the sound or put a limit on it. Compression as it was done on my Tyros, compressed the sound and made more of a CD like sound....great for recording not so good for playing live.
Yamaha responded by making the sound more live...a different compression scheme...at least that is what it looks like on my Genos.
Genos is different...takes some getting used to.
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Guitpic, am I therefore, close in my explanation? I too have a small studio. I'm not a pro but I do understand the basics ;).
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Guitpic, am I therefore, close in my explanation? I too have a small studio. I'm not a pro but I do understand the basics ;).
If I understand what you are saying...I would agree.
For example, on my Genos, the compression/limiter was set at 62%. That allowed for more volume but the sound was flat/compressed.
I moved the dial to set it at around 35%. That reduced my peak sounds without overwhelming compression and I get a more natural sound with bass/drums etc.
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Okay, thanks Guitpic!
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Guitpic, am I therefore, close in my explanation? I too have a small studio. I'm not a pro but I do understand the basics ;).
Page 121 in the Genos Ref. Manual describes the general principle of the Master Comp. and the Genos parameters used. There is a difference in operation in that there are no separate User controls for Ratio and Threshold. They plus Soft Knee are all changed together at the same time by the Compression setting. It certainly behaves differently from Tyros in that I can't hear a traditional "compression" effect as continues to be described in the manual, (whether adjusting Compression myself or selecting say Punchy), just an effect on the output level. To me it does not seem logical Spock. :) :) ;)
John
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Sounds like Yamaha would have been wise to use a different term than Compressor. Perhaps they should have used Sound Shape or something similar.
Using Compressor to describe two different results on two different keyboards is completely wrong! I have yet to read or hear of any compressors that work the way the Genos one does. Yamaha was probably trying to avoid confusion by using the same term for two totally different mechanisms. They didn't want a ton of emails asking, "Where's the **** compressor on the Genos??!!"
It failed, and if it wasn't so pathetic, it would be laughable :).
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The compressor's in the Genos doesn't work . Period .
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The compressor's in the Genos doesn't work . Period .
There’s definitely concern here. For my own info, I’m going to put the compressor system through it’s paces. See what I discover.
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There’s definitely concern here. For my own info, I’m going to put the compressor system through it’s paces. See what I discover.
Might want to hold off until you apply the next firmware update that's supposed to be released on Thursday.
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From the manual.
Compression
Parameters such as Threshold, Ratio and Soft Knee (which are available on commonly used compressors) are all changed together at the same time, letting you moderately compress the sound.
I’m still not convinced this system is faulty but I can see from the way it functions, it might cause confusion for some.
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WHAT A HYPOCRITE !"..............
Isn't a person allowed to change one's mind? To investigate a complex matter?
Calling someone a "hypocrite" is inproper on a forum like this, IMHO.
Maarten
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The reasons why I would buy a Genos, are the limitations of my PSR S 970.
- SArt2 voices
- Ensemble mode
- much much more memory for additional sounds
- 3 right parts instead 2
and why I would buy a Genos instead an used Tyros 5
- Audio styles are few, you can’t apply equalizer, patterns are too short for perfect realism, no edit possible, styles are “arrested” in the user drive, Revo Drums are the better alternative.
- Weight is not much higher, than PSR S 970
- More comfort by the touch display
- Better way to manage registration banks
and why I would never use a Korg as replacement for Yamaha
- Have much Yamaha styles
- Like the registration banks much more, than song book entries
- Would miss the Wersi drawbars
- Like the additional voices I can buy or get free
- Like the audio multi pads
- Would miss audio styles/ revo drums
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Why Did I Buy Genos?
Simply because I had an acute attack of 'senior moment'. :o ::) ;D
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Guitpick1
You have the best equipment in the whole wide world,
Why don’t you came back with 2 or 3 stunning bits of music that you have recorded on you PA4X or Genos
That will keep them quiet,
Good luck,
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Parameters such as Threshold, Ratio and Soft Knee (which are available on commonly used compressors) are all changed together at the same time, letting you moderately compress the sound.
I’m still not convinced this system is faulty but I can see from the way it functions, it might cause confusion for some.
Hi folks --
I started a separate topic about the master compressor. Sorry, I forgot that the compression discussion is buried in this thread.
http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,43167.0.html
The master compressor algorithm is taken from the Montage. It's the Monty's parallel compression algorithm.
-- pj
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Good responses.
Tx for the compression thread.