PSR Tutorial Forum
Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: vanray on January 02, 2018, 02:30:14 PM
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ALL VANRAY POSTS REMOVED & DELETED
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Good point Vanray - except that the audio file is auto-saved immediately. But if you need to rename it, move it, delete it etc. you have to go through the 3 steps mentioned above ...
Torben
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I don't see this as a problem and it takes no longer than on Tyros 5.
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There are quite a few of these annoyances in the new OS. When I want to edit a MIDI file that is loaded in the player I have to reload it into the editor. When I finished editing, it's gone in the player. In the player there is no "edit" item in the context menu. etc etc. Only a few additional clicks for sure, but I feel it doesn't help putting a lipstick on a pig. It indicates a poor design and a world class company should not deliver such a UI to their customers.
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The Tyros 5 had a measure counter next to displaying chord detect when chord and clock was coming from a DAW.. That measure counter was important to know when to hit a fill, or new variation.. The Genos has taken the measure counter out.. I miss it REALLY BADLY.. This instrument was supposed to be more studio useable, Removing the external measure counter, makes it LESS so.
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Ha Ha thats funny !
Marvellous. I keep telling my friends that I NEVER make any jokes. In fact, that's a joke ;D :D :D Get the picture? ;)
Another fact ist that I'm a long-time loyal follower of Yamaha products. The Genos is my 7th Yamaha keyboard/synth I owned (besides some other Yammie gear). But it doesn't keep me from speaking out where Yamaha could do better :-*.
Yes, I really hope for fixes in the forthcoming firmware and I would appreciate even new functions in later versions.
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In the registration sequencer, you can specify that at the end of the sequence, it goes to the next registration.
When using this in a Playlist, it should go to the next song in the Playlist (currently it goes to the next registration in alphabetical order, making it impossible to step through a Playlist).
Fred
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I don't see this as a problem and it takes no longer than on Tyros 5.
Why problems of other does not represent a problem who needs a little bit attention from Yamaha Team?! For you nothing represents problem. If you can make that thing from "x" movements it's ok for you. ***, you are unbelievable!
You don't find necessary, maybe because you have all the time in the world, but we are in the "Speed era" we need speed in operability, and if that problem solved represent more timeless process, that is an improvement in Genos operability!
Good approach vanray!
Thank you for your suggestions!
Regards,
Vali!
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I only speak as I find as indeed we all do, but surely a little time spent getting used to this new keyboard and some of the things that are different would help a lot. All I see is "This is different must get Yamaha to fix it"
Sounds like some would like the whole keyboard altered back to how it was. I was not in favour of a touch screen but most were. Now we find the operation on some things is different because it probably has to be and everyone want's updates. Dose no one prepare for there gigs now by setting up registration banks that contain everything you want at one button push. If I want to alter or edit something I am prepared to spend the time it takes to get what I want. that way I also learn the best way of doing it. You have to slow down sometimes And no I don't have all the time in the world but I make time at nearly 82 for my keyboard.
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All I see is "This is different must get Yamaha to fix it". Sounds like some would like the whole keyboard altered back to how it was.
I don't think so, Eileen. I love the touch screen and it makes live easier, and certainly I don't want a roll back. But the new UI has some flaws, and it's not because of the touch screen, but because Yamaha decided to implement it in an unconsistent fashion. For example:
When you select a Multi Pad, you may select Edit from the context menu. Perfect.
If you do the same process when selecting a MIDI file, you don't find Edit in the context menu. Instead you have to go to Menu, Menu2, song creator, blah blah..., then later reload it to the song player. Makes it very cumbersome to use, and it's a drawback compared to the Tyros. This can be fixed and I hop Yamaha will do so.
Another example: in the Tyros it was possible to put the song player in sync start mode by pressing two buttons. Both buttons still exist at the Genos but the sync start function is available only in the touch screen. This function has been removed without need. I'm afraid it will not come in a Firmware update, because there is no appropriate labeling on the Genos...
Let's hope that the flaws will be fixed and the good suggestions will be implemented. Will make an excellent machine even better :).
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There is one thing I think was on the Home screen of the Tyros, that was the chord you were playing, now on the Genos Home screen you don't have this. Please correct me if I am remembering this wrongly. Thanks. ;)
Bill
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Bud2
Of course you can see the chord you are playing on the home screen.
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when you boost the compressor in the genos, it ADDS VOLUME thats wrong.
Well, Yamaha arrangers have a history of mysterious Master Compressor parameters, above all they got changed overtime. I guess it's done to make it "easier" for the "average user", but in the end it just adds to the confusion. The Compression parameter - according to the reference manual - changes the Classic parameters Threshold, Ratio and Soft Knee ALL TOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME. Beg your pardon? How this is done is a complete mystery. The parameter "Texture" just adds to the confusion: "Adds natural characteristics to the effect. The higher the value, the lighter it becomes." Any questions?
Why can't Yamaha stick to the well known and proved compressor parameters?
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I don't have a Genos, but I agree with the posts above that both the Chord Type display and Bar Count display in the Main screen are essential to me as a player especially when I'm using the arpeggiator.
Joe H
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There is one thing I think was on the Home screen of the Tyros, that was the chord you were playing, now on the Genos Home screen you don't have this. Please correct me if I am remembering this wrongly. Thanks. ;)
Bill
Hi Bill
Yes it was on the Tyros and it IS STILL on the Genos. It is now inside the Style box at the left hand side (when you have the Accompaniment turns on.
Bill
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Hi Bill
Yes it was on the Tyros and it IS STILL on the Genos. It is now inside the Style box at the left hand side (when you have the Accompaniment turns on.
Bill
Yes it is there, Paul mention it on a post with a picture assigned to his post, but the BAR Counter does not exists anymore on Genos. You don't know for example how many measures from an intro there are till Main starts.
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Thanks, silly me, I had not got the Acmp button pressed when I tried it and most times while I have ben playing with the Acmp on I was not in the homw screen. Must be my age or "should have gone to Specsavers doh. ???
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I have a request for Yamaha. When using the multi-pads you have the option to use up to four multi-pads at a time. Let's say you enable 3 of them and these are looped samples so they play continuously. Now let's say you want to turn one of the three multi-pads off so just two are playing. In order to do that you need to stop all three using the 'Stop' button and then re-enable the two you want back on. This is inconvenient and really sort of illogical. Instead it would be more convenient and better to be able to "press" the multi-pad itself you want off and/or back on instead of using the 'Stop' button to turn them all off and then re-enabling the ones you want back on. So instead of having to use the 'Stop' button in order to change the multi-pads from on to off, using the individual buttons themselves to turn them off and back on if necessary would be more convenient and a more logical approach in my opinion.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
I totally agree with you on this. It is much more intuitive that the press of the multipad buttons to toggle between on and off, instead of having to press the stop button to stop all multipads, then press some of the multipad buttons to resume.
Paul
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When more than one multi pad is playing you should be able to stop specific ones by simply holding down the MP Stop button and then pressing the button of the MP that you want to stop!
This is exactly the same function as on numerous Tyros and PSR-S models, and is included on page 70 of the Genos Owner's manual.
Does this not work on Genos!
Regards
Ian
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Just hold the stop button and press the one you want off. It has been this way on most other Yamaha keyboards.
We seem to have posted at the same time. Yes it dose work on Genos.
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Yes, the stop + specific multi pad button to turn off that multi pad works.
Thanks,
Paul
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I spoke with Yamaha support several years ago about how they implemented the Multi Pad Start/ Stop. The way it works is the STOP message is transmitted to the OS with the RELEASE of the STOP button... not the PRESS. That's why when you want to stop one of the 4 buttons from playing, you press the Stop button then the Multi Pad button you want to stop... then RELEASE the Stop button.
I don't like the way they did this.. but that's how it works. So I incorporated the Pad Stopper file in my registrations so everything works as it should when I arrange a piece of music using a registration bank.
Joe H
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I spoke with Yamaha support several years ago about how they implemented the Multi Pad Start/ Stop. The way it works is the STOP message is transmitted to the OS with the RELEASE of the STOP button... not the PRESS. That's why when you want to stop one of the 4 buttons from playing, you press the Stop button then the Multi Pad button you want to stop... then RELEASE the Stop button.
Hi Joe H,
Although you are correct about the point at which MPs turn off when you simply press and release the Stop button (pads stop when Stop button is released), on my Tyros4 when multiple pads are playing and you hold down the Stop button, the pad that you want to stop, stops as soon as you press it's button, leaving the others playing. You don't have to release the Stop button before the pad stops!
Regards
Ian
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This is not easy for anyone who wants to do this "on the fly" while playing though, surely not difficult to alter this in the OS, they had the chance while producing the Genos.
Bill
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When more than one multi pad is playing you should be able to stop specific ones by simply holding down the MP Stop button and then pressing the button of the MP that you want to stop!
Regards
Ian
Well that's good to know Ian. I guess I overlooked that part of the manual. Still, as Bill pointed out, doing it on the fly is a little inconvenient in my opinion. You're pressing two buttons, the stop button and the MP button, and your finger (depending on which one you want to stop) has to extend a ways especially if you want to turn off the first MP. It would be more convenient just to be able to press the individual MP once to turn on and once to turn off instead of also having to press the Stop button as it is now. A software update should be able to accomplish this I would think. The Stop button would still be useful of course i.e. if you wanted to turn all the ones that are on off at the same time.
Mike
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Hi Joe H,
Although you are correct about the point at which MPs turn off when you simply press and release the Stop button (pads stop when Stop button is released), on my Tyros4 when multiple pads are playing and you hold down the Stop button, the pad that you want to stop, stops as soon as you press it's button, leaving the others playing. You don't have to release the Stop button before the pad stops!
Regards
Ian
Well that just goes to show us some differences (one of many) between the Tyros and PSR Operating Systems. With this new knowledge, I'm surprised that it works differently. But there other functions that are different as well. Sounds like the Genos works like the PSRs.
BTW... When I suggest to Yamaha Tech Support I thought it should work as... toggle On/Off for each Mutli Pad button the response was... that's how YOU think it should work, but it works the way it works. I thought about it a lot, and trust the programmer was probably right. Better design would have been dedicated On / Off buttons like with the style Part On / Off. So I think it came down to cost of reducing the number of buttons. I'm only guessing here. We can only speculate as to why things are designed the way they are. It may have been an issue of adding the Multi Pads to decades old code.
As I said elsewhere, I believe the Genos OS was a complete re-write of the firmware code. Specifically to do a better job of updates rather than patching the old code.
Joe H
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Hi,
I also have two or three wishes:
1. When working with registration banks and saving them (because you have changed something), you press the two regbank buttons or the upper part of the home screen, then the file nemu, then save, then save here, then OK to confirm the name, then Yes to overwrite the older version.
It would be much simpler, if we have two menu entries in the file menu: SAVE and SAVE AS. SAVE simply saves (and overwrites) the regbank, SAVE AS works as SAVE before. A save button on the Home Screen in the Registration Bank Area would be the absolute luxus.
2. When storing registrations using the Memory-Button + Reg Button, you get an Selection dialog, what to store in that registration. When changing that dialog (setting or removing marks) Genos remembers that for the next store (no matter what registration you store). It would be nice when I could get the same selection that I used to store that given registration before.
I currently use one Regbank per song. Registration 1 sets the whole environment for the song. With the following registrations I only store what I have changed (e.g. voice, transposer, volume settings etc.)
3. When loading Regbanks, I would like to have registration 1 activated automaticly.
Hope that someone @Yamaha reads this....
Yours
Rainer
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@Rainer: thumbs up for wishes 1+2 ! But I think number 3 is not a good idea. Keeps you from loading a different reg bank while you are still performing.
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@Dromeus: You're right with my wish #3. That should be configurable. Songbook+ and MobileSheetsPro react on the Regbank loading as Genos emits a SysEx at loading.
Rainer
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yes i agree
i too was looking for this, but its gone
i dont know how that could be added to a firmware upgrade
or whether its too late,
because its something that would have had to have been "Built-in"
like the Tyros 5
When you select "Tempo" in the Mainscreen you have the "Beat counter " in display .
Soryt
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@ Soryt
Could you please make a screencapture of the Beat counter in the display?
That would be great.
Thanks,
Stijn
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Another annoyance for me, is if I am trying to audition a style.. I have a USB stick with a lot files, in folders.. If I pick a style, and then decide to try another, I go back up out of that folder.. However once I have done that, I don't know what folder my new style was in.
It would be a nice touch, if that folder stayed highlighted, or had a small symbol next to it. So I could get back to. So if I audition a style, I must either write down on paper the location, or copy it to my user folder, or I might not find it again.. My usual procedure, is to audition a LOT of styles, and copy them to a temporary user folder. Then eventually I clean up the user folder, once the song is finished.. I delete, the unused styles
Which brings me to the next annoyance. Why did Yamaha programmers decide to change the terminology of 'move and copy'?.. In every computer, and kbd system I have ever used in any system, is 'Copy' and then move to new folder, and hit 'paste'.. Genos has decided to use 'copy to'..instead of 'paste'.. So you copy something and use copy too to a new place. Granted it is not a big change..
Not a big deal. but the earlier more logical process, of copy and paste, has been used for decades now.. I'm not sure if it the new generation of code programmers, but I'm beginning to HATE manufacturers making change strickly for 'change itself'.. It is not logical, and it is not an improvement..
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When you select "Tempo" in the Mainscreen you have the "Beat counter " in display .
Soryt
You don't have Beat Counter, you have an animated icon... that is not "beat counter"= "1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,...,245,246, etc" ;)
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This is how it looks on the PSR S970 Main Screen. We have ALL the info we need. One screen shot shows this info and the second is when we select the Channels On/Off Panel button.
There is a saying the trades... "If it ain't broke; don't fix it"
Not sure why Yamaha would not use this same format for the Genos. I think it is near perfect.
Joe H
[attachment deleted by admin]
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This is how it looks on the PSR S970 Main Screen. We have ALL the info we need. One screen shot shows this info and the second is when we select the Channels On/Off Panel button.
There is a saying the trades... "If it ain't broke; don't fix it"
Not sure why Yamaha would not use this same format for the Genos. I think it is near perfect.
Joe H
I don't think there is a best answer ...
Best regards, Joe! :)
Vali
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Gee folks, it's sounding like a lot of people are regretting their Genos purchases. Are the fantastic new sounds not good enough to offset the miserable OS redesign features? It's sounding that way. Why the **** are we buying these keyboards in the first place? There's only one answer: to have fun making music!! That activity seems to be off the table now.
If the Genos OS has been re-designed so differently as to cause a major impediment to creativity, then count me out. I'll live with my T5 and its crappy pianos. For real pianos, I have a Nord. The rest of the T5 is stellar. At my age, I have enough on my plate dealing with a software world dominated by the total morons at Microsoft. I don't need more software issues!
When Canada finally gets a few more Genos keyboards, I'll audition one. If I can't sit down and just play the thing and find what I need at a glance, then Yamaha can keep it.
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Hi Lee --
Well, rationally, this is a thread collecting requests and suggested changes/additions. So, it might seem like the sky is falling... :o
I've been having an absolute blast with Genos and I haven't regretted the purchase for even a fraction of a second. Mainly, I've been playing this thing as a synth (no styles, tracks, etc.) and setting up registrations that I will use for church. The Genos' sounds are leading me to new, good sonic places -- new splits and layers that I didn't think of before. All quality.
For a brand new software/hardware platform, Genos is quite reliable and I haven't encountered any freezes, BSODs, error messages, whatever. The requests and suggestions posted here are the kinds of "divots" that one would expect with a brand new user interface just now exposed to the full brutality of end users.
I could be somewhat critical of a few of the threads recently (e.g., low S/N ratio), but won't. I am, however, awaiting the next full moon when I will join the coyotes in our neighborhood and we will all bay at the moon. Cathartic. ;D
All the best and still rootin' for ya -- pj
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Lee... is not "miserable", come on :))) it is only feature-less... but it appears to be updatable, upgradable and so on ..
But sincerely, is our fault it is not updated as it has to be... like I said in my thread "we are a team or what are we?!..." we have to send a lot of mails to Yamaha... Yamaha have to see we are a lot of people using Genos and encounter all the same errors ;)
Regards,
Vali
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Not so, You are wrong,
Well, so much for my attempt to be peaceable. Good luck with your lawsuit (or whatever)!
-- pj
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your really showing your ignorance, with your rose tinted glasses on. :D
I don't live in the UK, BTW, and I'm unfamiliar with your consumer laws.
I know that you mean well. However, the tone on the forum has been quite harsh. Please can we lighten up a bit? I respect your opinion and comments, but I didn't design or fabricate the Genos and I don't deserve misdirected hostility.
-- pj
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The one great thing about this incredible forum is, we get to vent a little. High-tech gear is inherently frustrating at the best of times, especially when it is shoved out the door only 75 percent ready. In the end, we usually find solutions that work. I'd wager that when Yamaha reads these forums, they are in awe at how we make the keyboards do things they hadn't thought of.
I was recently shot down in flames for comparing the Genos OS to the "never ready and buggy software crap" that Microsoft (MS) puts out. Yamaha has never let us down in the OS department, nor have they pushed something out the door so fast, just like MS. And yet, there is a huge uproar over things that are missing or don't work as expected. I will not apologize for making that most apt metaphor about Yamaha and MS. The difference will be if Yamaha sorts out all these issues in a timely fashion. I'm sure they will. If not, I will be keeping my T5 and wait for the next release.
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Hi
Beat counter
You feel It!! and use your internal counter
Only necessary in song mode in sequencer
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Nothing missing here, in fact the Genos Master EQ is superior. In T5 you had a 5-Band EQ, in Genos you have a 8 Band EQ. At the low and the high end you have a low cut resp. a high cut filter, which does not have a Q parameter by design. You could implement a slope parameter for this type of filter, which would be nice to have.
Note how the display has been improved in Genos. All values are layed out so you get the picture. It was a nuisance in the Tyros line. Well done Yamaha. Of course there is still room for improvement, the slope parameters and a graphical view of the frequency response would be neat.
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My 2nd request :
Please include the Groove "ALL" Select button like the tyros 5
The Groove option in the genos style creator
has no " ALL " Select button.
As a fact I have been trying to "customize" styles like i have done on all my styles on the Tyros, and I felt it was very much work on Genos and for instance I was unable to change the volume of voices separately for Intros ABCD and Endings.
Does anyone know: I that so dumb or was it me who was dumb ?
Kaarlo von Freymann Helsinki Finland
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My 2nd request :
Please include the Groove "ALL" Select button like the tyros 5
The Groove option in the genos style creator
has no " ALL " Select button.
As a fact I have been trying to "customize" styles like i have done on all my styles on the Tyros, and I felt it was very much work on Genos and for instance I was unable to change the volume of voices separately for Intros ABCD and Endings.
Does anyone know: I that so dumb or was it me who was dumb ?
Kaarlo von Freymann Helsinki Finland
Direct Access + Intro1 to Ending 3 will open mixer page.
Regards,
Vali
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Something is happening with "quote" ... even if you don't write in quote, if you quote somebody text the text you write is inside quote... :-\ Moderators?! Admin?!
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When recording a song in Midi, transpose should be set to Keyboard for it to work on playback.
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Vali, are you using opening and closing quote tags?
<quote>Quoted material goes here</quote>
Note You would use square [ ] brackets though. I couldn't use them here, otherwise, you wouldn't see the proper format.
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Vali, are you using opening and closing quote tags?
<quote>Quoted material goes here</quote>
Note You would use square [ ] brackets though. I couldn't use them here, otherwise, you wouldn't see the proper format.
No Lee... I click in the right corner of a post on Quote hiperlink ... It automatically unclosed the text of owners in brackets.. I wrote outside the quote (after [ / quote], without spaces, enclosure) but when i click on Post button, my text in post is inside quoted text.
Now I see it works...
And sorry for off-topic :)
Regards,
Vali
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Maybe we should wait, give them a chance to make (and test) a new firmware, then we can make a better informed judgement after that?
Al. 👍😊
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Maybe we should wait, give them a chance to make (and test) a new firmware, then we can make a better informed judgement after that?
Al. 👍😊
Yes, we should.. but in the final, they have to solve more than 80% from detailed bugs found ;) This is definitely the way!
Regards,
Vali
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Glad it works now, Vali. Perhaps there was something wrong with the Quote command button, and they fixed it. Thanks for the update.
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My 2nd request :
Please include the Groove "ALL" Select button like the tyros 5
The Groove option in the genos style creator
has no " ALL " Select button.
so unlike the tyros 5 the "ALL" button would enable you change
ALL target channels , from Intro 1 , right thru to Ending 3, in one click
but in the genos ,you have to enable each one "separately"
so thats "3" pages of "17" target channels
(https://s17.postimg.org/krlhbzlcv/image.jpg)
(https://s17.postimg.org/h7zjm6qcv/image.jpg)
(https://s17.postimg.org/ltvnujjlr/image.jpg)
(https://s14.postimg.org/q8hjrokwh/image.jpg)
Vanrey you are addressing a real strange system in the Genos. Tried to tweak some styles, gave up !
Kaarlo von Freymann Helsinki Finland
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Same for Boost/Cut "ALL" Select button missing.
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Regarding the final compressor issue. It appears to me that Genos incorporates a compressor/limiter.
For instance I set a certain max volume on my connected amp, run my volume slider to 127%, then adjust the compressor/limiter to peak volume...slick for live performances to insure I don’t accidentally get a volume surge.
Essentially the dial works to set peak volumes....same as on my recording DAW.
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For you nothing represents problem. If you can make that thing from "x" movements it's ok for you. ***, you are unbelievable!
Regards,
Vali!
I could not agree more, the fact that something is not a problem for all users does not mean, it could not be better e.g that it is less than optimal for some people and they are perfectly right in pointing that out. One example, only some 6 % of the population is color blind like I am, and YAMAHA took note and switched to blue buttons somewhere along the long TYROS road. As all is about business, I found myself upgrading to the next model just because of the color of the buttons.
Kaarlo
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.......You have to slow down sometimes And no I don't have all the time in the world but I make time at nearly 82 for my keyboard.
Dear Eileen,
How right you are. I will still be 82 like you for another 2 months. ;) and I wish I could learn the feeling, "I still have time," but my feeling is: time is running out... time is running out..... time is running out..... it is ringing in my ears like the tinnitus I have suffered from ever since I stood playing my sax (as an amateur) next to the drummer's cymbal for two decades 50 years ago.
warm regards
Kaarlo
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Funny, eh?
My father is same age as you guys, and hasnt the slightest interest in anything to do with keyboards or music, now .. just the TV! 😁
'Lot of buttons" was the comment when he saw the Tyros-5
"Big Screen" when he saw the Genos .. and "Why?"
👍😁 ATB. Al.
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Eileen and Kaarlo,
Hope this cheers you up. My grandmother was born in 1900 and was a WWI bride who moved from France to Canada. Our longevity is calculated largely based on the available medical technology of our birth year, not current technology; although, it obviously helps too! She died in 1994 at the ripe old age of 94. You two have an extra decade of medical technology on her. You're far from gone! Like a lot of folks here, you may be studying for you final exams, but they are way off yet :)!
I know this off topic, however, therein lies the beauty of these forums. On occasion, we get to spill our feelings to a group of the best friends we have never met.
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You stop one multipad by pressing the stop and that multipad button at the same time.
Graham
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Sorry I was on page two.
Graham