PSR Tutorial Forum
Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: DavidB on December 26, 2017, 12:42:03 PM
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I think I mentioned on another thread that some months ago I was all set to sell my Clavinova 709 and Tyros 4 and replace them with a Roland Atelier home organ. It felt like a natural progression to me to want to learn to play more including the pedals, and rely less on auto functions although of course many exist on the Atelier. Also although being 8 or 9 year old technology the Atelier voices are pretty incredible.
I was all set to press the button on an Atelier when I was given the news that I should think of the rest of my life in terms of months. In addition, at this time, the first Genos demo's appeared and I found myself being drawn to what seemed to be amazing realism. I decided it was not fair to spend the money on an Atelier and leave my wife with the problem of selling it on should I die, and being swayed by the latest and greatest from Yamaha decided to get the Genos.
I still sold my CVP and Part Exed the Tyros 4 but now the real crunch... Having had the Genos for appox. 2 months I can quite honestly say I have never been so disappointed with a musical instrument purchase in my life. It is absolutely not worth what Yamaha are charging for it and the instrument realism, bar a very few voices, leaves very much to be desired.
The pianos sound nothing like the instruments they're named after. There is absolutely no depth to them whatsoever and the same can be said for many more of the instruments. My Tyros 4 had more realistic sounding pianos and organs.
I'm 56 years old by the way, apparently the typical Genos customer. I like to play pure piano, church music, easy listening, big band, swing and pop music and purely for my own entertainment. There are insufficient styles and variations on the Genos for chosen genres and many that do exist are simply updated versions of Tyros 2, 3, 4 and 5 styles that have been around for years.
Black was the worst colour Yamaha could have picked. They should call it dust catcher black because collecting dust is all that matt black finish is any good for.
I had some good news last week, it seems the treatment for my cancer could extend my life to years rather than just months.
I can judge the relevance, quality and many aspects of a musical instrument in my house by how keen I am to play it and despite much experimentation, playing with settings, adjusting equalisers and compressors etc etc. I am not keen to play the Genos. I don't want live controls or to play any sort of synthesised music. I just wanted the best home keyboard money could buy and the Genos absolutely isn't it - for me. Yamaha ought to be sued for daring to suggest the pianos are CFX or even close.
I dare say I could spend another thousand pounds or so on a better speaker set up but why should I have to? I have the speaker set Yamaha make for the keyboard and so I don't think I'm being unreasonable expecting the instruments to sound and behave as described.
OK, I guess that's what I wanted to say... each to their own of course - I fully understand that but I gave Genos more than a fair chance and it has only disappointed me. I feel as though I bought an over priced toy keyboard.
If anyone in the UK would like to buy one, as good as brand new, I'm sure we could discuss a sensible price :)
All the best everyone (and a belated Merry Christmas).
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David:
My recent experience:
Last year, my wife gave up on my not understanding what she was saying unless she was directly in front of me, and, so encouraged, I went to the hearing doctor.
Old age, a lifetime of overloading the ears with loud(and ever louder) music, construction tools (we rebuild 15 older houses, etc had done it's work. I ended up with devices in both ears that used amplification and, I suspect, some frequency shifting, to make it easier to converse.
But my T5 sounds terrible. So tinny that I avoid playing.
Then one day I took off my hearing aids. The old Tyros 5 was back.
I should play around with EQ and cmp settings to see if I can improve it with the hearing aids installed, but have not found the time.
Regards,
Michael
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Hi David
That is a shame that you are dissappointed in your Genos I hope you find a keyboard that suites your needs.
I am also pleased that the treatment you are receiving will extend your life to years rather than months, I have not forgotten about you since we last communicated.
Best Regards - Del
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David, sorry to hear about your medical situation. Glad to hear of the encouraging news though :)!
I had some good news last week, it seems the treatment for my cancer could extend my life to years rather than just months.
I agree with Michael, in that there are several variables to consider when talking about hearing perception. I too spent 25 years playing in loud bands and working in a semi-loud environment. Add to that the natural frequency loss associated with age, and it makes for a terrible mix. I believe someone mentioned that the Genos factory settings are basically flat and bland. It's up to the individual to make enhancements based on the acoustic environment, speakers, ambient noise, and ones own sound perception. Have you tried making some adjustments?
I feel your pain about the piano voices. While there are dozens of other really good instrument samples, I agree that the primary anchor voices must consist of about six really good piano voices. I thought the T5 piano voices were fantastic until I auditioned (and ultimately bought) a Nord Electro 5D. In comparison, Yamaha is a rank amateur. I hope the Genos pianos measure up to the Nord. If not, it's unlikely I'll buy the Genos, despite its massive improvement in other areas.
The Genos operating system frightens me a wee bit too, in that it they've changed so much. Over the past 30 years we've all endured software engineers and their so-called "enhancements." Here's my definition of the average idiotic engineer's software enhancement: "Add new features that nobody likes, wants, or even cares about. At the same time be sure to remove EVERYTHING that people got used to and that worked perfectly well before some idiot decided to 'improve' the software." But I digress way off topic...apologies.
Tinker with the Genos plumbing and see if you can make it sound good in the room where you play. All the best. We're all cheering for you...:)!
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Hi David
I guess the Geno's isn't for everyone,too bad you did care for it like some.
Perhaps selling it and getting a Tyros 5 instead wouldn't be a bad idea or go back to the Ty4.
I'm sure someone out there would like a good deal on a 2 month old Genos or perhaps a trade plus extra to get it.
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Dont think me rude david b
but its your state of mind thats been adjusted, and its not surprising
considering the "cancer card" that life dealt you.
with whats going on with your health, at present, you might find that
"nothing" could be a good enough distraction , from whats going on in your sub-concious.
i too have been dealt a few ugly cards in my life, and a promise from the doctors
that theres hope on the horizon , is not enough ,
things like this,can effect everything in your life, so dont be too hard on yourself.
you may be projecting your feelings about yourself, onto objects .
take care my friend .
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I am truly sorry to hear of your disappointment in the Genos David although I am extremely happy that your cancer prognosis has improved. 8) As far as the CFX piano on the Genos you have to remember it is a multi-sampled piano so it is natural for it to sound different than a real Yamaha CFX Grand Piano. Yamaha records the sound of a real CFX Grand Piano and they try to do so as best as they can but something is always lost in the translation so to speak. A real CFX Grand Piano costs $180,000 (£134,789) and we all know the price of the Genos so unless you want to spend that kind of money the Genos is a great alternative in my opinion. As Michael Bedesem said hearing aids could be the culprit. Settings also play a role and EQ can play a significant role in getting the sound you want or at least better than you're experiencing now.
The black color does reveal dust accumulation more so than a silver color would that's for sure. The remedy in that situation is to clean the Genos with a soft cloth occasionally and if possible play the Genos in a dust free environment which may be more difficult than it sounds. As far as the styles go you can purchase additional styles on the www.yamahamusicsoft.com website and choose the styles that you prefer. There are also free third party styles from other Yamaha arranger users that might appeal to you also. If you are still unsatisfied then by all means sell it and get something you will really enjoy.
Mike
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Hi David.
I'm a little bit disappointed too about Genos, but, really, to get back my Tyros 5?! No way.
I will wait for firmware update, and till then I will work with workarounds, even this is not a professional way!
I'll live with hope that Yamaha will solve all important bugs quickly, even misses some functions from Tyros series, which were not implemented.
Regards,
Vali!
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Thank you for all the comments and I've not taken any personally. I think there is some truth and reality in the suggestion that currently my cancer and life are foremost on my mind, but not entirely.
My CVP709 had both a sampled CFX and a Bosendorfer Piano and so it is not Yamaha's sampling that I am criticising but rather their own reproduction of the samples. On the CVP, which I admit had a decent sound board and better speakers, the pianos, organs and all other instruments had real depth to their sound. The CFX piano which was clearly sampled at least octave by octave if not note by note was beautifully deep in the lower ranges - which is exactly how a CFX really is. The Genos, can't even scratch the surface in comparison. It is flat, dead and completely lacking in any depth whatsoever - no matter what equaliser, compressor or any other settings I have tried. I'm sorry, but it is a thoroughly underwhelming piano sound that I would expect from a $99 keyboard but not the Genos. These statements, in my opinion of course, are true of many of the other voices although they are most noticeable on the piano's.
Could it be improved? How does it sound through a PA system? I imagine the answer is yes it can be improved and it sounds much fuller through a good PA. My point though is that I bought this with the Yamaha supplied and recommended speakers which at the price they are, on top of the keyboard, should be showing the sounds off to their optimum quality. I could spend a few more thousand experimenting with speakers until I find the right combination for my room but why should I have to?
Yamaha charge as much for the Genos as they did for the CVP709 when it first came out and the yet the performance is a million miles apart. That is fundamentally wrong and the source of my disappointment.
Yes, I could buy another CVP except there were shortcomings on that (not the sound), which is why I sold it...
Sorry to repeat much, but I wanted to try to get the message across as to what really disappoints me.
Thanks again all.
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Sorry to hear that you contracted cancer, though the good news is it seems to be responding to treatment.
Now, lets look at at the Genos sound. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to hear one live and in person at this point, but will this coming spring when a friend arrives for a visit with his. From what I have been told by at least a dozen pro entertainers, the sounds coming from the Genos are the absolute best they have heard from any arranger keyboard on the planet. I respect their assessments - they are pro entertainers and have been in the musical entertainment business for decades.
Now, the Genos does not have onboard speakers, therefore you must connect it to a quality sound system in order to hear what it has to offer. Additionally, everyone hears things differently, therefore, I suggest connecting a high quality headset to the keyboard and listening with them.
Next, adjust the global EQ system, and from what I have read, there are several presets onboard that do an excellent job. All of these are important factors with ANY arranger keyboard. If you want that depth you talked about, you will have to make the EQ adjustments. I have heard Michael Vonkin play the Genos grand piano and it sounded superior to many that I have heard in the past.
As for hearing aids, in reality, it is very difficult to use them while playing and performing. They tend to amplify high frequencies and block any other frequencies from your hearing range. Consequently, you will not hear the mids and lows to the same extent as the higher frequencies, thus making the keyboard sound tinny.
Hope this helps solve your dilemma,
Gary 8)
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Hi Gary,
Sorry, but I can't help but read your reply just a little dismissively... so....
Just because I don't get paid for playing music doesn't mean there's anything wrong with my ears or that I am in any way incapable of making a 'professional' assessment of an instrument. It just means I don't get paid, and of course you don't have to respect my opinion - but it is just as valid as your 'pro' mates and certainly significantly more valid than yours. When you've owned and played one for 2 or more months, providing you're not in denial because you spent so much money, then you will have a valid opinion.
I too was blown away by the quality of some of the voices on the Genos, and still am. The flugelhorn has to be heard to be believed. There are also others, but as you get used to the keyboard, as with all things in life, you start to realise where it is lacking and that's what I'm talking about - not where it is fantastic. I personally find the thoroughly underwhelming pianos so bad that every other instrument could be amazing (it isn't) and I'd still be disappointed.
Sorry, but absolutely nowhere in any blurb or technical materials do Yamaha suggest the Genos has to be connected to anything other that their very own speaker system. No where do they inform you that you will hear any instrument at any less than it's optimal sound unless you spend thousands on additional audio equipment.
Pedantic? Sure, but then so was your answer.
I already told you I've tried many different settings. Can't think of one I haven't tried and yet the pianos especially still sound nothing like their name on any settings.
I never mentioned hearing aids.
Hope that helps clear things up for you.
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Hi Dave,
I also use the Yamaha GNS-MS01 2.1 speaker system with Genos. I was sort of disappointed by its sound quality at first.
However, after participating in the discussion thread about the compressor on Genos, I tweaked the Master Compressor output and the GNS-MS01 sounds a lot louder and richer, almost feels like a new system to me. Here is my detailed comment on the Master Compressor of Genos:
http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,41795.msg329890.html#msg329890
The CFX Grand Piano sounds on CVP-709 are voice type VRM (Virtual Resonance Modelling), definitely better and more realistic than the S.Art! voice type of CFX ConcertGrand on Genos.
The default effect of CFX ConcertGrand on Genos is "Damper Resonance", which sounds a bit dry and unimpressive. I changed it to category "Reverb" with type "Hall1", and it sounds a lot richer to me.
The built-in speaker system of CVP-709 is a lot higher in specifications than the 2.1 speaker system of Genos.
Thanks,
Paul
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HI Dave,
First and foremost I’m happy to hear that your health issue has improved and treatment is going to give you a longer life. I was trained on piano but have shifted to arrangers because they are more fun and make a lot more music playing a gig than simply soloing on piano. Sorry to hear you’re unhappy with the Genos in my case I’m loving the Genos.
I know decisions are now water over the **** but if I were playing piano for my own entertainment and not gigging I would not sell my Clavinova CVP 307 to make room for a T5, Genos or s9xx line of arrangers. Genos has lots of great voices but the piano in my opinion isn’t as great as I would like it to sound and in no way can it replace the sound of the pianos on the CVP line of Clavinovas. Wishing you the best.
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I think I mentioned on another thread that some months ago I was all set to sell my Clavinova 709 and Tyros 4 and replace them with a Roland Atelier home organ.
I had some good news last week, it seems the treatment for my cancer could extend my life to years rather than just months.
Hi David --
Thanks goodness that the treatment is working. We all want to channel good vibes and wishes your way!
Taking your comments in total, it sounds like acoustic piano and the experience of playing an acoustic piano is very important to you. Having rung out a CVP-709 on trial, Yamaha truly provide an excellent "piano experience" with that product. It's beautiful and I remember playing with my eyes-closed thinking, "Wow, I can't tell that I'm behind a digital piano." As Paul mentioned, the CVP-709 includes VRM and includes all of the attention to detail in a flagship model that one expects from Yamaha. The CVP flagship leads the fleet of digital pianos, however, not arranger workstations.
I do love the Genos, but my requirements are rather broad and acoustic piano is not very high on my list of needs. That said, if someone asked for my thoughts, and that someone had "piano" at the top of their list and felt very strongly about that, I would suggest the CVP over Genos.
I hope these observations are helpful -- pj
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David's thread has begat another topic - "How good are the new piano voices on the Genos?"
It's probably unfair and totally unrealistic to compare the CVP pianos to any arranger because the CVP model is a dedicated piano in many ways. The question for me is, are the Genos pianos far better, somewhat better, or about the same as the T5 pianos? For me, this is a deal breaker. CVP or not, I refuse to give Yamaha another dime if they're going to jerk me around with yet more crappy and disappointing pianos that were supposed to be improved from the T4 to T5. (The T5 pianos were better but not a whole lot!) I certainly don't expect them to rival their CVP, CP4, or other TOTL piano voices, but for $6,000, they better be DARN good - at the very least a huge jump from the T5!!
Hopefully, I've stayed on topic...
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David!
I am surprised to read that the Genos cost almost the same as the CVP 709.
I have a CVP 709 and it is much more expensive than a Genos.
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I refuse to give Yamaha another dime if they're going to jerk me around with yet more crappy and disappointing pianos that were supposed to be improved from the T4 to T5. (The T5 pianos were better but not a whole lot!) I certainly don't expect them to rival their CVP, CP4, or other TOTL piano voices, but for $6,000, they better be DARN good - at the very least a huge jump from the T5!!
My experience, Lee, is the piano voices are better, but not a huge improvement, from the T4, let alone the T5. Don't set yourself up for disappointment.
Fred
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Thanks Fred! I'll be able to learn about the piano voices just as soon as Yamaha stops "dribbling" the odd Genos into our tiny little country and decides we're worthy of a few more keyboards.
Like I said in an earlier post, by the time we get the steady supply we deserve, most of the forum members will be trying to figure out how to safely remove a 1 inch dust layer from the dull-black Genos finishes.
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Here is an example of the CFX concert grand piano I recorded using my Genos to my computer for what it's worth. The song is called "Silver Bells" an appropriate song for the holiday season. Please feel free to download and listen to it. It was recorded as a .wav file and then I converted it to an .mp3 file. As you know .mp3 files are compressed audio so the quality will not be as good as the original .wav file which is uncompressed audio. As such I still find the sound is very acceptable for a keyboard. Enjoy!
Silver Bells (https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7nfqv5lekqsorn/Silver%20Bells.mp3?dl=0)
Mike
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Here is an example of the CFX concert grand piano I recorded using my Genos to my computer for what it's worth. The song is called "Silver Bells" an appropriate song for the holiday season. Please feel free to download and listen to it. It was recorded as a .wav file and then I converted it to an .mp3 file. As you know .mp3 files are compressed audio so the quality will not be as good as the original .wav file which is uncompressed audio. As such I still find the sound is very acceptable for a keyboard.
Mike,
Very nice. Certainly a better piano sound than I remember from my Genos, even on my tinny iPad. I’m away from my Genos right now, but when I get back, I’ll have to find out what settings you used to get such a nice sound.
Fred
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Agreed, Fred. Great playing too!!
Hope my Genos sounds that good. I'm sure there are plenty of EQ settings to adjust the piano to the right genre. Thanks Keynote!!
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Here is an example of the CFX concert grand piano I recorded using my Genos to my computer for what it's worth. The song is called "Silver Bells" an appropriate song for the holiday season. Please feel free to download and listen to it. It was recorded as a .wav file and then I converted it to an .mp3 file. As you know .mp3 files are compressed audio so the quality will not be as good as the original .wav file which is uncompressed audio. As such I still find the sound is very acceptable for a keyboard. Enjoy!
Silver Bells (https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7nfqv5lekqsorn/Silver%20Bells.mp3?dl=0)
Mike
Hi Mike,
Beautiful piano performance on a Genos!
Thanks,
Paul
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A great CFX Piano sounding Demo....
Excellent, love your harmony and playing style.
Manuel
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David!
I am surprised to read that the Genos cost almost the same as the CVP 709.
I have a CVP 709 and it is much more expensive than a Genos.
Today, yes, they are more expensive. When I bought my 709 is was £4,300.00.
Regards,
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Nice demo Mike, thanks.
What a recorded piano sounds like is not the source of my disappointment. I've said all along that using the line outs, better speakers etc etc would no doubt improve matters, as would recordings which can then be manipulated through the computer or listening device you're using. Few of us listen to music flat, because it often sounds dull and uneventful and as others have alluded to, ears and hearing change with age.
Maybe I am just too fussy, but if I buy a supposed top of the line keyboard with it's own dedicated speaker set and I choose an instrument named CFX Grand Piano... then a CFX Grand Piano is what I expect to hear. As I've said a number of times, Genos isn't even close. I would go further and say with it's complete lack of substance and body in the lower ranges, it's not even a good piano. It's not realistic at all.
Anyway, I've probably flogged this one to death... each to their own as I said right at the start.
Genos is not for me.
Best wishes all.
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A great CFX Piano sounding Demo....
Excellent, love your harmony and playing style.
Manuel
It was a very good demo by Mike but I can assure you the piano sound was absolutely nothing like a CFX piano or in fact any real piano. Listen to a CFX in real life and you will be moved by the brilliance and variety of the tone, not to mention the depth and power of the lower notes. All I'm afraid still missing from Mikes demo - which I would love to hear on a real CFX.
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David b
it looks like you've arrived at "Checkmate"
you've burnt your bridges, so how are you gonna get across,
to all your musical dreams and wishes ?
Is there a better arranger than the Yamaha-Genos ?
I very much doubt it.
With 2018 arriving in a few days, How are you Gonna move on?
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David, imagine if the Genos piano sounded exactly like the CFX? Genos sales would skyrocket, while real CFX sales would plummet :). The next huge challenge would be in mimicking the weighted key action - something no company has even come close to as of yet. The electronic pianos are so fatiguing on the wrists compared to the real pianos.
Best of luck in your search.
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David, I guess your next step would be to see if you can return the Genos and get a full refund, failing that sell it!
Gary 8)
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I am also not exactly thrilled with the Genos either... But not enough to return it. (restocking fee) etc.. Yamaha engineers must have re-EQ'd their workshop speaker set-up.. Brighter is not necessarily better. Also bathing so many patches in a mediocre reverb, on the Genes doesn't help.. This of course, is a matter of personal preference.
In a complex music mix, if you brighten too many instruments, you affect the overall mix, to the point, where you have a sonic mess. The proper procedure is to EQ some of the instrument's low and mid low with notch filtering out.. It sounds to me, Yamaha added a tinge of brightness to many of the instruments.. And once you've got to many instruments, brighter than normal, you've painted yourself into a corner. Yes, to many of us 'oldsters', who've lost high end it sounds better. But to others, it creates an instrument too 'colored'.
I prefer "SOME" of the T5 sounds to the Genos.. They sound more solid. With the T5, I very rarely touched EQ on individual instruments.. I am still adjusting my hearing 'point of view' for the Genos. It only a subtle change, but one I hear on my studio Genelec 8040 speakers.
I am somewhat disappointed with all the electric guitar sounds.. Again they all seem to have a strange EQ (and too much reverb)..
I have had other keyboards with touchscreen and do generally prefer them.. But I miss the ability to instantly change something, with the over one hundred buttons the Tyros.. In both Tyros and Genos, the very stingy amount 'user' midi set-ups, and DSP effects, is disappointing.
I love the ability of the Genos to string together more DSP effects, but I'd want a lot more user spots to save those. That is just plain wrong.
Unlike the vast majority of users here, I have used the Tyros and Genos, as a studio and compositional tool. I didn't use it as a 'one man band' witch was obviously Tyros's purpose.
To me, Yamaha engineers, tried to bring the Genes in line with Korg and Roland . I have absolutely no interest in EDM music, and the brash sounds of it. So in Yamaha's decision to add some of that factor.. So all those styles and instrument patches are a total 'wasteland' to me. I do have a sizable amount of 'virtual instruments', Kontakt and UVI libraries, so it's not a major inconvenience to me.. But to many their Genes, or Tyros, may be the only instrument they use. I realize Yamaha is really trying to create a 'one instrument fits all'. And that is a noble attempt.. And on some level the Genos does that.
I suppose Yamaha into account the 'dying out' of the older population. The 'target' audience, for music from the 40's - 50's, is dwindling or too hard of hearing to appreciate music anymore, and Genos is trying to repurpose themselves for a younger audience. And let's face it, Yamaha is in the business of making $$$$. To continue along the Tyros line, with it's user base, dying out, or stop making music is not good business sense
In one way, I suppose this will make the Tyros line something to be cherished, and users can continue to cherish it as a very viable instrument to have.. Just like a few drum machines, and synths, from the 80's were discontinued, yet user demand, had them re-incarnated.. The kbd arranger is certainly not as popular in the US as in other parts of the world, so it is impossible for me to understand the workings of world wide sales.
This could create a situation where the Tyros line will stand on it's own, and possibly continue to be a desired instrument. But eventually Yamaha will stop carrying parts, and maintaining it.
I am very upset with Apple, whose policy is to drop stocking and repairing their older computers. In 2015, I was bluntly told by Apple they don't carry parts, and would not repair my 2008 top of the line Mac Pro.. That is a 7 year life time for Apple.. And now with the fact surfacing, Apple deliberately slows down their old iPhones, forcing the user to buy a new one, just points out the greed of large companies. I certainly hope Yamaha doesn't resort to that. Of course new technologies is part of the price we pay for such rapidly advancing technology.
There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with the GENOS, it's really my age, and musical tastes, that make me not as excited of the Genos as I was the Tyros.
I've still got my Tyros 5. But don't think I am going to keep both the Genes and Tyros. I'll probably sell the Tyros.
I guess I have reached the point that my parents reached 20 years ago.. When they decided keeping up with the 'curve of modern technology' was not for them. For instance I recently got an Android phone (had a simple flip phone for many years).. I hated the Android at first, and was toying with the idea of going like 'Prince' and just not having a cell phone at all. But I decided if I didn't make the attempt to keep up with technology now, I would fall behind. And at a healthy 69 years of age, I do plan on sticking around (now I am going to get down to creating some really serious music)..
So yes, the bottom line is the Genos is a very decent instrument.. Some of us here, love it. And it has been getting good comments from the 30 - 50 year old users.. I would say I, for some of us here, our musical path, and Yamaha's is branching off in different directions. Us oldsters, have to decide if we are going to keep up with technology, Finances, health, and our life span will dictate our course of action.
Hey, if I hold on my Tyros 5. I might A/B the Genes, and Tyros six months from now and have a different opinion. I reserve the right to do so..
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I am very upset with Apple, whose policy is to drop stocking and repairing their older computers. In 2015, I was bluntly told by Apple they don't carry parts, and would not repair my 2008 top of the line Mac Pro.. That is a 7 year life time for Apple.. And now with the fact surfacing, Apple deliberately slows down their old iPhones, forcing the user to buy a new one, just points out the greed of large companies. I certainly hope Yamaha doesn't resort to that. Of course new technologies is part of the price we pay for such rapidly advancing technology.
So yes, the bottom line is the Genos is a very decent instrument.. Some of us here, love it. And it has been getting good comments from the 30 - 50 year old users.. I would say I, for some of us here, our musical path, and Yamaha's is branching off in different directions. Us oldsters, have to decide if we are going to keep up with technology, Finances, health, and our life span will dictate our course of action.
Hey, if I hold on my Tyros 5. I might A/B the Genes, and Tyros six months from now and have a different opinion. I reserve the right to do so..
Mark, Thank you for a very well thought out opinion of Genos.
I really share your thoughts on Apple, I’ve been in the Apple eco-system for a number of years and I don’t like what they have done to their loyal fan base i.e. folks like you and I. You said it best, “GREED,” I certainly hope Yamaha does not walk down that path.
Happy New Year!
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Indeed, what do I now is the question, because I don't want the Genos. Mind you I can't even be sure now that I even want any kind of arranger and I certainly wouldn't want a Tyros, as despite the quality of the instruments, I would feel it was a step backwards. As it is I may have a solution but I can't really be certain about any of it. Which might make this the ideal solution.
I haven't put the wheels in motion yet but if it comes off, remembering that portability isn't a requirement and neither is space a problem, I may end up with a Roland Atelier AT800 and keep the Genos until I can truly decide.
In the meantime though I am so disappointed with the Genos that if someone came up with a realistic price for it, I would sell it - providing it doesn't involve any clandestine meetings in car parks or having to drive silly distances.
I'll let you know if my plan comes off :)
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how much would you be asking ??? ??? for Genos
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Having had the Genos for appox. 2 months I can quite honestly say I have never been so disappointed with a musical instrument purchase in my life. It is absolutely not worth what Yamaha are charging for it and the instrument realism, bar a very few voices, leaves very much to be desired.
The pianos sound nothing like the instruments they're named after. There is absolutely no depth to them whatsoever and the same can be said for many more of the instruments. My Tyros 4 had more realistic sounding pianos and organs.
Black was the worst colour Yamaha could have picked. They should call it dust catcher black because collecting dust is all that matt black finish is any good for.
I had some good news last week, it seems the treatment for my cancer could extend my life to years rather than just months.
Hello DavidB, I don’t even own a Genos, so cannot comment but I sure am very sorry to read of your disappointment. And as you have actually owned a CVP 709, and now own a Genos, well… it's the same pair of ears that have heard them both. So you (and only you!) are the best judge concerning which of them (to you) is the superior one in terms of piano sounds. And although you said in a subsequent comment that you would think of a Tyros as a backward step, you also say in your original posting that you felt that the pianos and organs sounded more realistic on your Tyros 4. So perhaps finding a mint condition T5/76 (like I recently did) wouldn't be so bad? It certainly has a lot of T4 in it, but the T5/76 also has some added features that has made me very happy indeed that I took this route!
I totally agree with you about black finish vs silver. Black definitely shows every bit of dust, fingerprints etc. far more than silver. I’ve had many black keyboards (the last of which I think was a Roland G1000) but as soon as I started on the Tyros range (I’ve now had them all) I immediately noticed that I haven’t had to run a duster over them anywhere near as often as I did with black keyboards. Same with cars. I was forever cleaning a black car that we once had. We’re on the second silver car in a row now and it’ll go much longer before it becomes visibly obvious that it’s time for a clean.
However, far more important than any of the above is your medical condition. Seeing that the cancer treatment you are currently undergoing could significantly extend your life expectancy sure is excellent news indeed! :)
Best wishes,
Will
P.S. As for the Roland Atelier, which is obviously a whole different beast altogether, well I can honestly say that the AT-900 Platinum Edition would be top of the list with me… if only those little Lottery balls fell in the right order for me! ;D
http://will49.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p2692390106.jpg
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how much would you be asking ??? ??? for Genos
I paid £4,300 for it. I think considering it's condition... Comes with L7B stand and GNS MS01 speakers. Dust covers for keyboard, speakers, sub woofer. I will not split it at all... in other words all or nothing... £3,800.00 would seem fair to each party. It has Church and Christmas and a couple more expansion packs loaded but I guess I own those no matter what thanks to Yamaha's draconian licensing through YEM and Musicsoft - so I guess I should remove them. Happy to leave the 256Gb stick underneath. Still have all the boxes.
Regards,
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P.S. As for the Roland Atelier, which is obviously a whole different beast altogether, well I can honestly say that the AT-900 Platinum Edition would be top of the list with me… if only those little Lottery balls fell in the right order for me! ;D
http://will49.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p2692390106.jpg
Thanks for a lovely reply Will. You're right the Atelier is an entirely different beast. I did quite a lot of research into them earlier in the year including playing both the 800 and 900 of which there is very little difference as I'm sure you know. I decided on the 800 as with it's short pedal board it would in effect leave them optional for me - although I have every intention of learning.
Despite the fact they're now 8 or 9 year old technology some of the solo voices are truly amazing, including the piano's. Some have such realism even today they knock the Genos at least into second place. I know that might not be a fair comparison, but it is one I'm making for personal choice.
Anyway, again, thanks for the great reply.
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It has Church and Christmas and a couple more expansion packs loaded but I guess I own those no matter what thanks to Yamaha's draconian licensing through YEM and Musicsoft - so I guess I should remove them.
Hi David, You could just create a new account for your next Yamaha instrument. That is of course if you decide to stay with Yamaha and won;t need the packs anymore. After that you can change the e-mail address of the old account to that of the buyer and let him set a new password. Or, write an e-mail to support asking if they are willing to transfer it to his or her's account and away from yours. It's worth the try since I think Yamaha's only goal is to prevent those packs from being distributed to more than 1 person.
Man, I would give my uh, left foot (Keeping my hands and the sustain pedal foot ;) ) for a CVP709. For the Genos? Not so much :P Not saying it is a bad instrument but my (half year old) T5 is good enough for me for now. Not that many differences besides a lot of Yamaha pooha advertising and a lot of things I am not that interested in anyway (not want to start a discussion btw. This is my honest opinion and mine alone. You all are entitled to another version :D )
kind regards,
Peter
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I believe that we should see this from David's point of view.
He knows what he's talking about, and no amount of justification will change that.
A keyboard is a multifaceted instrument with hundreds of sounds. Some are spot on, and some are not.
A keyboard may contain the sound of a specific piano but it is not a piano, or that particular piano.
It does not have the feel, depth, keybed, nuances, and a myriad other things that make a piano what it is.
Stage Pianos by Nord, Yamaha, Roland, Kawai and others, come close.
They've made big advances in emulating the mechanism, weighting, and sampling of all 88 keys, to come close to the real thing. But they're just close, not the real thing either.
I lug around a 32 kilo stage piano everywhere I go, not because I'm crazy, it's because I'm a piano player and must always have a piano with me. I would feel naked without it.
The arranger functions as a secondary instrument.
I am amused when I read posts praising the glory of a CFX in the Genos.
One even said it was a gift from the Almighty God.
I will buy a Genos, but not for any piano samples it may contain.
All i want are the styles, Guitars, maybe Saxes, Brass, Organs and I'll find a way to do the rest.
So David is right when he says there's no CFX in the Genos.
We may wish it to be so, even will it to be so, try to convince ourselves that it is so, but sadly it ain't so.
I cannot agree or disagree with David because I haven't even touched a Genos in the flesh yet.
But I believe him because I understand.
Once a person has played on a better piano, in this case the CVP 709, it would require a miracle to convince him that the lesser sounding piano on an arranger, is the best.
But he has owned the Genos for two months now, and has tried everything possible to squeeze out a good sounding CFX from it, and it didn't work.
So he knows what he's talking about.
Let's just leave it at that.
Best Regards,
Pianoman.
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I decided on the 800 as with it's short pedal board it would in effect leave them optional for me - although I have every intention of learning.
Hi Dave,
I am sure you will love playing the Roland Atelier Series organ.
Have you seen or played any Yamaha Electone Stagea ELS-02C organ in your area? Yamaha Electone organs are very popular in Asia, but I have not seen any of them in the U.S. I watched a over-4-million-viewed Youtube video of a young Japanese girl playing "Star Wars" theme song on a Yamaha Stagea organ and thought that the sounds are quite convincing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp5HpjhKHKs
How do you feel about the sounds compared to the Roland Atelier 800?
Thanks,
Paul
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I had a PSR and added a digital piano to it because the piano sound and keyboard feel are not great. I bought a CVP605 and it was much better. Then I bought a CVP 705 and it was a little bit better still especially the Bosendorfer sample but still not in the same league as even my pretty medium level real Yamaha grand, which in turn is not in the same league as a Bosendorfer Imperial or Shigeru. But now we are talking instruments which cost upwards of 20 times the cost of a TOTL arranger. And sublime instruments though these last two grand pianos are, they don’t provide a trio or even a full orchestra to accompany me at the touch of a screen, they can’t record my performance or let me add a sax solo or an almost endless list of other things.
That’s the point isn’t it, the arranger is a compromise between cost, sound quality and a wide range of quite amazing functionality. Focus on one feature like the piano sample, the sound processing or the style or voice editing and its easy to find fault, but look at the whole thing and any of these TOTL arrangers are really pretty amazing. Of course people are entitled to their likes and dislikes, just as some people prefer BMW to Lexus or Mercedes - even if fundamentally they are all great cars and most would just like the chance to own any one of them.
Mike
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True and very well explained Mike.
Best Regards,
Pianoman.
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Greetings David. I've enjoyed reading the various posts related to the topic you introduced and trying to determine how I really feel about the sound of the Genos piano. I am just an average player but I do own a Yamaha baby grand and nothing I've purchased so far gives me the same type of pleasure as playing that little gem. I especially miss the weighed keys when I switch to the Genos. I also miss the lower notes, but am trying to become accustomed to that as well. I'm force-feeding myself the more compact set-up.
Back to the sound. I have never liked the Yamaha keyboard mounted speakers. I decided to give them another try with the Genos. Nope - not any better. I have not hooked up my Bose Compact to it yet, but feel confident that would be very pleasing to the ear. However....I have tremendous pleasure listening through my expensive Sennheiser headphones. Since you are only playing for your own pleasure, I wonder if you have tried this option.
Good luck with your health issues. In 2009 I was hospitalized for nine days and had to use a walker for six months afterward. A couple of years later I was riding my bicycle 5-6 miles at a time 3-4 times a week. I did not have cancer but an extremely serious life threatening case of UC. I cannot believe that my body was able to heal itself to this extent. Thank God for my doctors and some really great drugs! I'm sure you feel like I do - so glad this did not happen to me years ago when most of these treatments were not available!
If you haven't yet...give the headphones a try. They are addicting!
Best wishes for a wonderful and healing 2018!
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Also....KEYNOTE - that was an extremely beautiful arrangement of Silver Bells and played to perfection!
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David b
This is just my personal opinion :
Home organs are a dying breed, they were superseded by the arranger workstations,
decades ago.
in my opinion you've " thrown the baby out with the bathwater " .
Despite the thousands of improvements and technical Advancements of the brand new genos
your prepared to throw all that away, because of "ONE" dislike.
I doubt that the roland Organ will keep you happy "Longterm".
its had its day.
(https://s14.postimg.org/lsc427ne9/serveimage.jpg)
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David b
This is just my personal opinion :
Home organs are a dying breed, they were superseded by the arranger workstations,
decades ago.
in my opinion you've " thrown the baby out with the bathwater " .
Despite the thousands of improvements and technical Advancements of the brand new genos
your prepared to throw all that away, because of "ONE" dislike.
I doubt that the roland Organ will keep you happy "Longterm".
its had its day.
(https://s14.postimg.org/lsc427ne9/serveimage.jpg)
It is not because of one dislike, as I've said a few times. I just used the piano's as an example. There are other instruments that are a poor rendition of themselves, whereas, as I've also said there are some that are so realistic it almost defies comprehension. Perhaps this is the real source of my disappointment, if they can make a Flugelhorn sound as real as they do, with all it's nuances, then why can't they make a piano sound like a piano? Forget CFX, Bosendorfer etc. Just let's take a normal upright no name piano... even they have body to their sound and depth in the lower ranges. Genos has none.
It's not a question of whether or not a Genos is a CFX. Of course it isn't, but I know from my CVP that Yamaha themselves can make a pretty good impression of one - but not on the Genos, it's top of the line arranger it seems. THAT is the disappointment. I don't care about different sampling techniques (for this argument) only that Yamaha state it is a CFX piano and it's so laughably not even close.
I agree organs are a breed separate from arrangers, but dying? Getting smaller, sure, while the arranger market grows. This is what makes the Roland Atelier all the more remarkable for it's instrument realism. On many it makes a Genos (with its standard speakers) sound like cheap keyboard. The Atelier has been discontinued for the last 3 years and Roland has made nothing to replace it, which makes my plan riskier but even better... Have both while deciding which to keep.
Best wishes,
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Hi,
I think there is only one way to judge between a real piano and a keyboard. Put them both behind a curtain in front of a audience with just one pianist playing both, and when nobody can tell which is which, that's it keyboards have arrived.
Oldden
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Allow me to explain this in a way maybe only guys can understand (my apologies ladies).
Nowadays they make 2 litre Turbo powered cars that can deliver the same power output as an old school V8.
To make things more interesting they create an artificial "enhanced" sound to mimic a V8 sound, which is fed to the driver via the vehicle's audio system.
The driver powers up his car, and with his windows closed, hears a V8.
He then steps out of the car, walks to the back, and hears a thin tinny sound coming out of the exhaust. The world also hears a thin tinny sound emanating from the vehicle.
No V8 there.
Our friend David has driven his V8 muscle car, in the form of his CVP 709.
A V8 that accelerates your digestive process as you rev it up, before even driving off.
It sent shivers up his spine, and now he does not get that same feeling from the Genos.
As a result, he is considering other options.
As is his right to do so.
Why can't we just let a man be right when he is right?
Especially when we ourselves know, deep down, that he is right.
Then we still continue to live in denial by implying that he may be using a hearing aid,
or the wrong speakers, or that he would see things differently if only he had good headphones.
or that he should visit his hearing doctor, etc.
I've owned all things Yamaha since I was a 17 year old boy. Even my Motorbike was Yamaha.
But we owe nothing to Yamaha.
It is the other way round, it is Yamaha that owes it's consumers.
Fealty must be earned, and not taken as a given.
Best Regards and a Happy New Year to all.
Pianoman.
PS: We must always be vigilant that we do not develop a "cult" mentality.
Whether it's a general Yamaha cult, or a Genos cult. It is unhealthy.
My understanding is that we are a bunch of people who own Yamaha keyboards, and get together here to share experiences, help each other out, and suggest improvements.
We should remain vigilant that it stays that way.
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Hi,
Why can't we just let a man be right when he is right?
Especially when we ourselves know, deep down, that he is right.
That is completely true. There is no right no wrong to any of it, it's what we personally enjoy what is important. We all see, hear and think differently to each other, it's time to give this item a rest I think.
Oldden
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Hi,
it's time to give this item a rest I think.
Oldden
For any particular reason?
Best Regards,
Pianoman.
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it's time to give this item a rest I think.
Oldden
By all means stop contributing, don't post, don't even read it, in fact add it to your block list and never have to read it again. A thread is over when no one has anything more to add, not when someone decides they're bored with it :)
And, the pianos on Genos are not a matter of what one person likes or doesn't. It is a matter of what is a true rendition and what isn't. You may be happy to play them, in which case I'm delighted for you and everyone else who is also happy, but don't fool yourselves you're playing anything that has the breadth and depth of a real piano, let alone a CFX.
All the best.
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Hi Pianoman,
I am wondering if it's all getting a bit too personal towards the original poster. We all have our own views on life and it's only my own opinion of course but I hope that this user group will always be friendly to, and respect each other's views.
Oldden
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I must be too thick skinned. I'm not taking anything personally, and I hope no one else is. I just started a thread to try and explain why I am extremely disappointed with Genos. I expected it to be a little controversial in a Genos forum, but I've actually been surprised by the replies seeing things from my perspective.
I think the forums friendliness is intact :)
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David, before you decide to sell your Genos I just wanted to post a couple more demos for you to listen to. The first demo is once again the Genos CFX concert grand piano vs. a real Yamaha CFX grand piano recorded at a famous studio in Germany although it's a rather short demo. And the second is actually a video and review of the Genos keyboard by a popular keyboardist from the U.K. demonstrated at Bonner's Music. The first link and demo is in .wav format so as to demonstrate the best quality of sound. The second link and video review is over 200 MB in size. I'm not sure if you're on a metered connection or not but I wanted to put it out there to give you a chance to see and hear the features and sounds of the Genos at length. Enjoy!
Genos CFX piano vs. Yamaha real CFX piano (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7q749xwqqzet794/Genos%20CFX%20Piano%20vs%20Yamaha%20Real%20CFX%20Piano.wav?dl=0)
Yamaha Genos keyboard review (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v4mn22l3tea9vs/Yamaha%20Genos%20Review%20_%20UK%20Home%20Keyboard%20Player%20Sounds%20%26%20Styles%20-%20YouTube%20%281080p%29.mp4?dl=0)
Mike
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Hi Dave,
I am sure you will love playing the Roland Atelier Series organ.
Have you seen or played any Yamaha Electone Stagea ELS-02C organ in your area? Yamaha Electone organs are very popular in Asia, but I have not seen any of them in the U.S. I watched a over-4-million-viewed Youtube video of a young Japanese girl playing "Star Wars" theme song on a Yamaha Stagea organ and thought that the sounds are quite convincing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp5HpjhKHKs
How do you feel about the sounds compared to the Roland Atelier 800?
Thanks,
Paul
Hi Paul,
Didn't mean to ignore this.
She is very good, but I'm not sure those organs are available in Europe.
I can well imagine someone doing a very similar rendition on an Atelier.
One of the things I really like about the Atelier is the nearly 6 octave lower manual which is missing from many other organs I've seen.
Regards,
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David, before you decide to sell your Genos I just wanted to post a couple more demos for you to listen to. The first demo is once again the Genos CFX concert grand piano vs. a real Yamaha CFX grand piano recorded at a famous studio in Germany although it's a rather short demo. And the second is actually a video and review of the Genos keyboard by a popular keyboardist from the U.K. demonstrated at Bonner's Music. The first link and demo is in .wav format so as to demonstrate the best quality of sound. The second link and video review is over 200 MB in size. I'm not sure if you're on a metered connection or not but I wanted to put it out there to give you a chance to see and hear the features and sounds of the Genos at length. Enjoy!
Genos CFX piano vs. Yamaha real CFX piano (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7q749xwqqzet794/Genos%20CFX%20Piano%20vs%20Yamaha%20Real%20CFX%20Piano.wav?dl=0)
Yamaha Genos keyboard review (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v4mn22l3tea9vs/Yamaha%20Genos%20Review%20_%20UK%20Home%20Keyboard%20Player%20Sounds%20%26%20Styles%20-%20YouTube%20%281080p%29.mp4?dl=0)
Mike
Much appreciated Mike and I must admit they're very convincing. Neither however are being played through the Genos speakers. I've said all along that with a much more expensive sound system and with appropriate equaliser settings etc. the sound can be improved massively and this is the proof of that. I'm afraid though that it doesn't diminish my disappointment because to reproduce those sounds for myself I would have to spend at least £1,000 more if not £2,000. I don't believe it's fair anyone should have to do that.
Thank you though, as I say, they are very convincing. The first demo actually made me wonder if it really was a Genos. Amazing what a professional studio can achieve.
Bandwidth is no issue... 200mbs, unmetered :)
Thanks,
PS. I will most likely sell my Genos for the right price, but my plan at the moment involves keeping it while I try an Atelier. That way I can still choose.
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David b
This is just my personal opinion :
Home organs are a dying breed, they were superseded by the arranger workstations,
decades ago.
I doubt that the roland Organ will keep you happy "Longterm".
its had its day.
Vanray, The above remarks about home organs are, as you put it, your “personal opinion”, and you are obviously entitled to that. However, one of the reasons that you perceive them as a “dying breed” is the fact that they became so hugely expensive. The other reason came about following the advancements in electronics which meant that things could be miniaturised and put into smaller and smaller cabinets. Until, eventually, they became so small and light that they could be picked up and carried around under one arm… enter the ‘portable keyboard’! This was obviously a godsend to gigging musicians, who previously (with the help of assistants and a fairly large van!) hauled big organs around… and sometimes, separate Leslie cabinets as well!
However, as a non-gigging person, I strongly defend the whole concept of the home organ. Firstly, they are the very thing that got me interested in playing music in the first place. Secondly, there is something about them that is difficult to explain. There is that unmistakable warmth/depth to their sound… perhaps it’s something to do with their speaker system, or the cabinet? I think Pianoman’s analogy of a V8 muscle car vs a small-engined car is an excellent comparison! You only have to watch a few YouTube videos of the likes of Claudia Hirschfeld playing the Wersi Louvre, and also Chris Hopkins… who now has the ex-Blackpool Tower Ballroom’s Wersi Louvre at home. And in terms of appearance, being so much larger and having two or three manuals and a pedal board, home organs simply look more impressive. They seem to exude a certain aura of grandeur that many people are proud to show off in their homes - whilst the portable keyboard, on the other hand, is considered a mere toy by comparison. I fully understand and support DavidB’s desire to go for a Roland Atelier AT-800. Like I said in my earlier comment, if I won the Lottery, a top of the range home organ would be high on my shopping list too!
To DavidB: If/when you do finally decide on having a Roland AT-800, then I’m sure you will be very happy with it, and I wish you many years of enjoyment with such a magnificent instrument! :)
Regards,
Will
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In response to a previous post - hiding the pianos from the listener to see if they can distinguish would not tell the whole story. Maybe you blindfold the player and see if they can distinguish, because Depends on many other factors like what they play, how they play etc. And then there is what the player feels, and that is not just keyboard response, but also sound response. Good players adjust what they play automatically depending on the sound feedback. And sample is not just about basic tone and pitch, which is relatively easy to get right.
Think of sustain for example, if you sustain a note on a quality grand, you might still hear it twenty seconds or more later. Think of the sample size to not just capture that but to factor in variable decay rates and harmonics depending on how hard you hit it in the first place, which particular note it is (string lengths matter) then multiply by every note on the keyboard, some of which may be played simultaneously over the decay, with harmonic interactions - and you start to understand why piano is so hard and expensive to duplicate electronically. I think the better electronic instruments get tone close. But all the other nuances - not close.
Mike
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Hello David. I am new to this forum. I feel compelled to write to you (only my second post) because I empathize and sympathize with you and can feel your pain because I have been there myself. In fact your your criticism of the Genos piano sound quality is what kept me from purchasing all previous generations of Tyros. This has also kept me from enjoying the fun and unique entertaining experience of playing on the fly OMB performances. With every release of the Tyros, I did not keep one for myself because the piano sounds seemed too thin, not rich and full bodied. I finally bought a Korg Kronos to satisfy my piano (and synth) desire and am totally happy with it. I was still missing an arranger. So I finally did buy the Genos recently because it sounded better to me than the Tyros series, including the pianos, however, the pianos still are not as good as can be gotten from some other digital keyboards, as you well know. So, to beef up my piano sound on the Genos, I am blending several piano voices together to get something closer to what I am looking for. For example, layering the CFX Concert Grand, C7 Warm Grand, and Upright Piano, with the volume raised more for the C7 Warm Grand, gets me to a more acceptable sound, good enough to enjoy playing just on the Genos. However, when my piano quality needs to be more pure and strong, I play my Korg Kronos audio, all octaves through the Genos, plus midi couple it with the Genos to get the best of both worlds, better piano, rhythms, and sweet Genos articulation voices. If you haven't already experimented with combining piano voices within the Genos, I would suggest layering your favorite piano voices together, mixing their prominence, EQ and effects and you might be able to come up with something better than you've heard so far. Or you might not. My other thought is that you appear to be very firm in only using the Genos speakers. I use the Yamaha HS8 speakers which can be had for $699USD minus holiday sales currently going on for minus 15-20% off online. I don't think that is expensive relative to the cost of the Genos. Maybe it's better to use better speakers than throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I have heard some Tyros users say they prefer the sound of other speakers over the stock ones. I don't think they have to cost an arm and a leg. You could take your Genos to the local music store and hook it up to audition. Finally, since, you may have bought your keyboard somewhat close to Christmas Holiday, doesn't your music supplier have a return policy, for example, if you received it as a gift? Ultimately you should not be stuck with, or persuaded to keep an instrument that does not make you happy. So David, this was just a review of some options that you may or may not have considered. As many on this thread have acknowledged, you deserve to "have it your way." Best of luck. Happy New Year. Hal
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Gentlemen, and ladies, please try to maintain some semblance of civility when posting. This thread is primarily one person's opinion about the Genos and his opinion is to be respected. The only reason I posted anything at all was an attempt to provide some technical assistance and not to contradict his likes or dislikes, or to sway his opinion.
If David feels certain Genos voices don't sound the way he wishes, and the solutions offered by others will suffice, then it is up to David to determine what he wishes to do. There is no reason to kill the thread unless it becomes negative or combative. If and when it does, one of the moderators will take the time to consult all the other moderators about the thread and what is to be done with it.
This site exists for the sole purpose of providing Yamaha arranger keyboard owners and users with assistance with their Yamaha keyboards, and in doing so, providing assistance both from a technical standpoint and a personal, first-hand, user standpoint. If for some reason you don't like the results you have obtained, feel free to post YOUR OPINION of this, and many of the good folks on this forum will do their best to assist you in obtaining your goals.
As stated many times, music is very subjective, and there are no absolute rights or wrongs - just individual opinions.
Have a Happy New Year,
Gary 8)
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hi David i dont think you have spent enough time with it ive played it and im getting it in April ive had all the Tyros Keyboards . and all the Big Yamaha organs from the C 55 the D 65 the FS 30 and Hx1 the Organs are good but when you think of it the Keyboards are Fantastic Have a look at Bemore Organs all the best i hope you get what you want in the end :)
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I had a Yamaha FS500, my last organ. If I had to transport it, I wouldn't trade a used Casio for it now! Not because it didn't sound great--it was fantastic. But Lord what a beast to move. I had it, a Leslie, huge P.A. system, dollies which weighed a lot in their own right, etc.
I remember making a road trip and having trouble getting everything in a full-size Chevy van!
It would be fun to have one at home I suppose, but I probably would opt for an arranger anyway, because of the joystick, the USB, the touch screen, the vocal processor, the midi-MP3-Wave player and recorder, the sequencer, the editing, the foot controllers, the programmable sliders...etc.
Also the FS500 had a sorry excuse for a piano sound, and virtually no decent guitars, no break/fills, no multiple intros and endings, no four variations, the drums were awful...I could go on and on about the improvements that show up in even middle of the line arrangers.
The organ did have a neat little third keyboard, but that is easily achieved by just attaching one via midi if needed.
You also had to deal with proprietary memory packs, but we were glad to have them because before that there was NO external memory.
Yes, organs were fine for pros back in the day, but once arrangers were invented, I never looked back, and SAVED my own back at the same time! :)
Sorry for rambling...not even relative to the original post. I will sentence myself to an hour away from the forums. It's lunch time anyway! :)
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Lunch time - you must get to bed a lot earlier than I do! Lunch in about 10 minutes for me, 2 p.m.. ;)
All the best,
Gary 8)
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Lunch time - you must get to bed a lot earlier than I do! Lunch in about 10 minutes for me, 2 p.m.. ;)
All the best,
Gary 8)
More like Brunch. You are an hour ahead, but Susan made sausage balls this morning and I've been nibbling on them, while on my second cup of coffee. Too cold for golf or fishing, or I wouldn't be here causing trouble!
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I got to bed about 1:15 a.m., then read a couple chapters of my latest Sheriff Bo Tully mystery book. Went to sleep about 2:20 and rolled out of bed at 9:30. I planned on not doing much all day today, and it seems like I'm right on schedule. ;)
Happy New Year, old friend,
Gary 8)
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:) :)
the Genos sounds like it is a good key board ,I wouldn't want to go through the setting it up, I am sick and tired of tweeking
equipment :)Fred said his text files didn't fit in screen that alone would keep me from changing key boards ;D I will keep what I got unless they come out with one that I dont have to tweek and change settings to !!!!
Paula :)
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Paula, unfortunately, all arranger keyboards made during the past 30 years have needed some sort of tweaking and tuning in order to get them to sound right on stage. Same holds true for most sound systems and vocal processors as well. This is because everyone's hearing is subjective, just as music is, therefore, there is no right or wrong with these things. I have owned more than a dozen arranger keyboards of all makes in 3 plus decades of performing, and never had one that didn't require some tuning.
Happy New Year,
Gary 8)
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I've owned many top instruments from Korg, Yamaha, Roland, Nord. Through a good speaker/sound system I can honestly say the Genos blows other boards out of the water, the sound quality is stunning. I use Yamaha HS7 active monitors and they really do make the Genos shine. I remember though the similar tyros speaker system when I had my Tyros 2, it never did justice to the instrument although I have to commend it on its compactness. I am very surprised though that you feel the Genos isn't up to sonic quality compared to your Tyros, I'm guessing as others have said you are fond of a particular 'sound' that you've become accustomed to with the Tyros. Personally I cannot imagine how you could improve the sound quality of Genos, by the way I am a UK owner and like yourself I have had a range of instruments including double manual organs. I've also had a Kronos and the Montage from Yamaha, I can honestly say the Genos is up there with the top end instruments! Anyway just wanted to add to the conversation, I can see there has been quite some activity on this thread and I would be very interested in knowing how you get on with the Roland instrument.
Kind regards
Simon
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:) :)
Hi Gary
and that is exactly why I am keeping my Psr 970 and Tyros 4 ...I have had a few key boards as well beginning with the Technics and then Korgs I am sticking with what I have now, good enough they are all tweeked and when I set up a new song again I tweek the styles and set up new ,I just do not want to start over to do all I have now no no no!!! really the psr 970 read the reg. well with murrys program very well ,how great to have him on this forum!!! I needed to change the peddles as all are set up different in the reg but that wasn't to much for me T4 and psr 970 it works fine, I am sticking to them they work fine and sound good at least my audience thinks they do
Paula :)
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:) :)
I have not heard the Genos live !!! I am sure it is a great key board as so many have spoken highly of it I am also just to poor to have one
Poor Paula :) :) :)
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Hi,
Perhaps a little off topic but since there are a few dedicated piano players watching this topic and since the topic is about disapointing piano samples on certain Yamaha instruments (or not depending on the listener). How does the new CSP 150/170 sound? Does anyone has first hand experience with them yet? Lately I'm drawn more and more into piano playing. I do like to play with accompanied by a few styles every once in a while though. That is mainly due to the fact that I have more and more problems to "orientate" as in get a hold of where exactly my fingers are on the keyboard itself.
I know "muscle memory" in other words practise, practise, practise is the only solution but until that starts to kick in (old fox and such). With piano play I can sneak in some moments to "rest" while trying to figure out where I left my fingers pretending it is part of my own interpretation of a song ;) I used to look every once in a while at the keyboard to orientate but lately (and it is getting worse by the month) I see a C almost everywhere when I do due to the fact some of the black keys are gone when I do. Making the left white key a C and sometimes even wondering who designed the keyboard since those 5 black keys aren't supposed to be right next to each other :P These constantly changing gaps and my efforts to get used to playing totally blind are an extra handicap when playing with a timen based style accompaniment unless you use a free play style.
This all is reason for me to perhaps trade my T5 for an affordable CSP 170. A bit of a mix of both worlds so it seems. There is no dealer however anywhere near where I can go to and test. So before I go try and see where the nearest dealer with a showroom model is I thought to ask here :)
hope I didn't bore you all to death by now with an "off topic story/question"
any insights appreciated,
Peter
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Hi Folks,
I hope its ok to chip in but Gary should we retune the instrument to how we like it ??
If we are playing to others surely we need to wonder how they are hearing the music
You are a senior, I am also a senior and I know I have A hearing problem even with a hearing aid
Perhaps the young folk who set it up got it right
For myself the new Yamaha keyboard sounds too light but It might be because it suits the type of songs that the younger generation like to play and hear
All comments will be helpfull
Adrian
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Adrian, when I was performing in the Florida Keys, I encountered the spring break kids - barbie doll girls and guys in their early 20s at most. Ironically, the ladies wanted to hear Sinatra, Cole Porter, Jimmy Buffett and Zach Brown songs more than the newer stuff. I kept the dancefloor packed every Wednesday and Friday night while playing those kind of songs, so I guess my shot the **** hearing is better than I thought it was.
All the best,
Gary 8)
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Vanray, The above remarks about home organs are, as you put it, your “personal opinion”, and you are obviously entitled to that. However, one of the reasons that you perceive them as a “dying breed” is the fact that they became so hugely expensive. The other reason came about following the advancements in electronics which meant that things could be miniaturised and put into smaller and smaller cabinets. Until, eventually, they became so small and light that they could be picked up and carried around under one arm… enter the ‘portable keyboard’! This was obviously a godsend to gigging musicians, who previously (with the help of assistants and a fairly large van!) hauled big organs around… and sometimes, separate Leslie cabinets as well!
However, as a non-gigging person, I strongly defend the whole concept of the home organ. Firstly, they are the very thing that got me interested in playing music in the first place. Secondly, there is something about them that is difficult to explain. There is that unmistakable warmth/depth to their sound… perhaps it’s something to do with their speaker system, or the cabinet? I think Pianoman’s analogy of a V8 muscle car vs a small-engined car is an excellent comparison! You only have to watch a few YouTube videos of the likes of Claudia Hirschfeld playing the Wersi Louvre, and also Chris Hopkins… who now has the ex-Blackpool Tower Ballroom’s Wersi Louvre at home. And in terms of appearance, being so much larger and having two or three manuals and a pedal board, home organs simply look more impressive. They seem to exude a certain aura of grandeur that many people are proud to show off in their homes - whilst the portable keyboard, on the other hand, is considered a mere toy by comparison. I fully understand and support DavidB’s desire to go for a Roland Atelier AT-800. Like I said in my earlier comment, if I won the Lottery, a top of the range home organ would be high on my shopping list too!
To DavidB: If/when you do finally decide on having a Roland AT-800, then I’m sure you will be very happy with it, and I wish you many years of enjoyment with such a magnificent instrument! :)
Regards,
Will
I completely agree with this.
As for the rest of this thread, I only have one thing to say: If one is unable to connect with their instrument, then little good can come out of it. It doesn't matter how many people feel differently, or what opinions they have. Even if the problem is nothing more than a dislike for the color of the instrument, or some other feature that may seem insignificant, it is only the person PLAYING the instrument who can connect with it. If that is not possible, then it is time for a different instrument - whatever the reason may be.
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The very BEST of us can make mistakes. I've been married three times.
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I had a Yamaha FS500, my last organ. It would be fun to have one at home I suppose, but I probably would opt for an arranger anyway, because of the joystick, the USB, the touch screen, the vocal processor, the midi-MP3-Wave player and recorder, the sequencer, the editing, the foot controllers, the programmable sliders...etc. Also the FS500 had a sorry excuse for a piano sound, and virtually no decent guitars, no break/fills, no multiple intros and endings, no four variations, the drums were awful... I could go on and on about the improvements that show up in even middle of the line arrangers.
Hi DonM. I totally agree. It was in about the same era that I had the mighty Kawai DX900 and, although it was a fabulous instrument in its day, it too had similar limitations to those you refer to with your FS500. In fact, compare the DX900 in terms of sonic realism and all the other features to my current Tyros 5/76 and the huge advancement in technology becomes clearly obvious! However, we mustn’t forget that both your Yamaha FS500 and my Kawai DX900 date back to the early 1980s, and that organs (as well as keyboards) have also benefited from technological advancement over the years… huge touch screens and all of those things you mention. In fact, the sonic realism, depth/warmth of some of the sounds they produce can be staggeringly impressive! The sad thing tough is that some of the top models (e.g. the Wersi Pergamon OAX1000) could set you back about £36,000! A Roland AT-800 like DavidB is considering is also way over my budget, but I’ve seen & heard one live and I sure as heck would love one…. maybe one day!
By the way, to all of the happy Genos owners here: Like everything else, the Genos may not be perfect in every single aspect for some. But as far as arrangers go, it may also be the best that money can buy at present. And my rambling on about organs (and my full support of DavidB’s decision to look for a Roland AT-800) is not in any way an attempt to degrade the Genos at all… keyboards and organs are totally different animals – perhaps a bit like trying to compare a Subaru WRX STI to a Bentley Continental GT! ;)
Regards,
Will
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As for the rest of this thread, I only have one thing to say: If one is unable to connect with their instrument, then little good can come out of it. It doesn't matter how many people feel differently, or what opinions they have. Even if the problem is nothing more than a dislike for the color of the instrument, or some other feature that may seem insignificant, it is only the person PLAYING the instrument who can connect with it. If that is not possible, then it is time for a different instrument - whatever the reason may be.
Great comment, Jim!
I think this is at the essence of what I wanted to say about playing the CVP-709. The CVP-709 produced a rather complete experience of playing an acoustic piano for me. The keybed action, tone generation, sound system and underlying software created a genuine "key to sound" experience and connection.
I'm really digging Genos as primarily a synthesist and organist. I don't regard myself as much of a pianist. However, the CVP-709 as the full experience is closer to the GA1 acoustic grand at the church than the Genos. Not a slam, just a statement of difference.
All the best -- pj
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Hi DonM. I totally agree. It was in about the same era that I had the mighty Kawai DX900 and, although it was a fabulous instrument in its day, it too had similar limitations to those you refer to with your FS500. In fact, compare the DX900 in terms of sonic realism and all the other features to my current Tyros 5/76 and the huge advancement in technology becomes clearly obvious! However, we mustn’t forget that both your Yamaha FS500 and my Kawai DX900 date back to the early 1980s, and that organs (as well as keyboards) have also benefited from technological advancement over the years… huge touch screens and all of those things you mention. In fact, the sonic realism, depth/warmth of some of the sounds they produce can be staggeringly impressive! The sad thing tough is that some of the top models (e.g. the Wersi Pergamon OAX1000) could set you back about £36,000! A Roland AT-800 like DavidB is considering is also way over my budget, but I’ve seen & heard one live and I sure as heck would love one…. maybe one day!
By the way, to all of the happy Genos owners here: Like everything else, the Genos may not be perfect in every single aspect for some. But as far as arrangers go, it may also be the best that money can buy at present. And my rambling on about organs (and my full support of DavidB’s decision to look for a Roland AT-800) is not in any way an attempt to degrade the Genos at all… keyboards and organs are totally different animals – perhaps a bit like trying to compare a Subaru WRX STI to a Bentley Continental GT! ;)
Regards,
Will
Hi Will,
I will admit I have not sat down at an organ since the happy day mine left the building! I'm sure they reflect the advances in technology available now.
I'm totally happy with my Korg PA4X. Nothing about the Genos, especially the price, is tempting me to want to change.
I will most likely be in the market for the S970 replacement, but as a second or backup arranger for me. That will most likely be another year though and a lot can happen in a year!
Best wishes by friend!
DonM
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Nothing about the Genos, especially the price, is tempting me to want to change.
Best wishes by friend!
Hi DonM, The price was a no-no for me too. As mentioned in earlier comments, I had the choice of parting with almost £3,000 on top of my T4 to have a Genos, or a mere £949 with my T4 for a mint T5/76... the latter won! Some happy Genos owners here may, of course, say that Genos is a huge improvement over the T5, and that it has been worth every penny it cost them to change... and I respect their sentiments and wish them every happiness with their choice. 😊
Best wishes to you too DonM,
Will
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I am selling my Genos, speakers, stands, expansions...
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,42188.0.html
Thanks for looking :)
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I am always amazed at people's opinion about the sound of pianos. I played with both the Dallas and Ft. Worth Symphony Orchestras and often we had very famous piano players as guests. Often they brought with them their personal piano and some even brought there own piano tech or tuner with them! It was amazing to hear a Bosendorfer, a Fazioli, the old Steinways, and even the older Baldwins and hear how great they sounded when properly tuned and tweaked to the performers specs. So, what does a really good piano sound like? Well, which one? In what environment? Played by whom? Is there ANY arranger keyboard that even comes close to recreating the sound of these fabulous pianos?
I do own the Genos and I will agree that the pianos are not real good and Yamaha really should address that issue. Seems they went crazy with "effects" on the pianos. That said, they certainly work and for most audiences it makes no difference.
Deane
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There are adjustments on the Genos that can make the Grand Piano(s) sound more to your liking including EQ and Compressor settings.
The acoustic Grand Pianos on the Genos are a step up from the Tyros 5 but there is always room for improvement needless to say. Having said that there are many many excellent voices on the Genos. Here is the latest video of Peter Baartmans playing the Genos in Eindhoven, Netherlands. It's almost an hour in length but it's worth watching in its entirety in my opinion. He plays all kinds of voices including the CFX concert grand. Enjoy!
Peter Baartmans latest video playing the Genos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE6gAxykOvY)
Mike
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Piano sounds are subject to personal preference, so different opinions are quite natural. I admit I was never a fan of Yamaha piano sounds and certainly didn't like the key action of Yamaha digital/stage pianos. In fact I'm a big fan of Kawai stage pianos and maybe my ears are tuned to that sound...
When judging the sound of an arranger's piano I really think you should not use the internal keyboard, but connect a decent graded hammer action keyboard via MIDI, because it makes a huge difference. You just can't get the dynamics needed for piano sounds out of a weighted synth action keyboard.
Having said that, I must say I like the Genos pianos. Certainly better then the T3 pianos (that's where I came from arranger-wise). Anyway, from an arranger I would not expect a piano sound comparable to a first class digital piano or even a high-class piano VST plugin, that offer subtleties (e.g. string harmonics) which are of no importance when the piano is part of an arrangement produced by Genos.
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Thank you Mike!
Now that is what I call a real demo. Almost no silly jokes, in his own language sitting down between people and nopt on a podium. Without an "amaaaazing" arpeggio on a 5 second delay. And recorded analog. Making the sound much more honest and real. This is the first Genos demo I have seen where at least for me it is clear that the instruments on the Genos whether the same as on a T5 (choir and a few others) or new (kino for example) really produce a better sound. Honest also as in Peter trying to steer away from the multi pad question since there are no real changes there.
All things set in real time not with some carfully prepared registrations and lots of audio files which are not very realistic for most of us. This, for me, is a demo worth watching if you want to prepare yourself before you go to a dealer to test it yourself and make a final judgement. Still not sure if I one day will go for one or wait for the next one but at least it improved my personal opinion of the Genos quite a bit.
kind regards,
Peter
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Comparing a Genos sampled CFX grand piano sound to the real thing: an acoustic piece of equipment selling for over 117.000 pounds..... ;)
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Comparing a Genos sampled CFX grand piano sound to the real thing: an acoustic piece of equipment selling for over 117.000 pounds..... ;)
Nope, comparing it to a CVP709 which when I bought it cost exactly what I paid for the Genos. ;)
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Well, probably the end of an era, and I'm certain my time on this forum. As soon as I sell my Genos I won't have a Yamaha instrument in the house, and that after owning them for over 25 years.
Anyway, it's been fun, even though the Genos is not what Yamaha want you to believe it is, especially not with its useless speaker system, so I wish everyone all the very best and leave you with a picture of what just found its way into my house. I've already made a more pleasing noise on it that I've managed to make on a Genos in the last few months. If you're interested in buying my perfect Genos, with no faults and extras, then please PM me and I will get an email.
Good luck to you all, really, I don't know how long I will have the pleasure of the Atelier but I'm hoping for at least a few years. Only God and my cancer treatment can decide though.
All the best.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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David, good luck with those Cancer treatments, and I sincerely hope all goes well for you. Stop in and say hi once in a while and let us know how you are getting along.
Good luck,
Gary 8)
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It is all down to getting a decent set of speakers
The Genos ones are like a transistor radio to me
The Genos is 100% and quality
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...I wish everyone all the very best and leave you with a picture of what just found its way into my house.
Hi DavidB. Wow, now that looks the business! Like I've said before, electronic organs are what got me interested in learning to play a bit of music in the first place - and that's many, many years ago now! Sadly though, their price gradually got way beyobd my reach.
With its dual manual and pedalboard (plus that beautiful cabinet), it looks a far more impressive instument than any portable keyboard could ever do! And I've seen and heard an AT-800 too, so can vouch that it has beautiful sounds and some excellent features!
I wish you all the very best with your cancer treatnent, and hope that you have many years of enjoynent with such a magnificent instrument!
Best regards,
Will
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It is all down to getting a decent set of speakers
The Genos ones are like a transistor radio to me
The Genos is 100% and quality
That's good advice!
Back in the day I bought a PSR-2000 instead of a PSR-9000. For the money saved I got me decent speakers (2.1). Did even make my PSR-2000 shine ;D. I use theses speakers still today, what a worthwile investment.
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DavidB
I really wish you well and your treatments effective.
I'm going through a different health issue right now and while it certainly hard to be happy about it, we must really try and be very positive in the mind that this will work; not if it works but when I get better !
Sorry the Geno's didn't work out; O well don't sweat the small stuff we know whats important !
Craig "Keyboardist"
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Hi,
I have PSR s 950 and it is more than enough for my needs. If I need real sound I have soft synths and they sound much better than any arranger keyboard (example - Synthology Ivory II ). The quality of Piano voices have major role & value in any instrument or workstation. Also as per my knowledge when you want to select a additional PA system piano voice is the main sound to hear before buying any. All other voices will sound good if you get right Piano sound through PA. But as mentioned in above posts we cannot expect natural sound from these digital keyboards. They never can produce natural sound. Looks like in future professional musicians and studios will go back to old analog technology I can see already Tube amplifies and Vinyl records back in stores.
thanks
Mark
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what im saying here is if you want a piano buy one all evry one is doing is complaining about the Piano enough said
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Yes I think the new piano's are much improved now and sound great.
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Agreed about the piano voices, Eileen - to a point. Nord dedicates 1 GB of memory for their piano samples, and they're stellar - far superior to the T5 and possibly Genos (most of us Canadians won't know for another month or so because Yamaha "has their reasons for not delivering to the Canadian market at this time").
Memory is cheap, and the piano is still the anchor voice in any arranger. Yamaha could stick a 1 GB chip in the Genos (for pennies) and blow every other company away with their piano voices and other amazing voices, but doing so may reduce sales of other products. People like me are sick to death of bringing two pianos to major concerts all because the Yamaha marketing people decided to put a lousy piano in the Tyros series. I have yet to comment about the Genos pianos...maybe another month or so.
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Lee, I listened to Abby The Pianoman's Another Brick In The Wall and the T3 piano he played was absolutely stellar. I know my hearing is not as good as it was many years ago, but I can assure you that any audience I have performed for would not know the difference between his T3 and a Steinway Grand. Take a listen to http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,42219.0.html
Gary 8)
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It does sound good, Gary! Well played too ;).
I wonder what the difference would be with the Genos or Nord pianos. A huge step up, I 'd wager. The T3 midrange tones sound "boxy" and slightly out of phase. But you're right - there's that darn hearing thing again (LOL) :)!!
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With a new keyboard model there always were passionate and divergent views on the main piano voice. Here is my take on Genos:
Whenever Yamaha promote their latest all singing all dancing fantastic piano on a new arranger (Tyros and Genos) the default setups are to a formula tailored to provide a "piano voice" primarily for mixing well with other RH instruments, or providing block chords with 1 finger, and in providing a ready basis for the interminable saloon, honky tonk, cocktail etc. pianos. Understandably perhaps on that basis there appears to be little effort out of the box to gear it more fully to the playing experience expected by full keyboard pianists. Even so, out of the box the Genos piano is a significant improvement over the old ConcertGrand played 2-handed, but even though I was not expecting CVP performance I was surprised at how held back (otherwise) it sounded. Even the new preset String Resonance DSP did not seem to have much effect on it.
Although little comfort to DavidB, yes it can be improved upon but Yamaha leave it to us, or at least those of us who can be bothered or who willingly or grudgingly rise to a challenge. For Yamaha there seems no motivation for having such a thing as a "proper" piano set up in an arranger, and in any case a lot/most? users probably can't see/hear what all the incessant gripes are about. It's those pesky piano players (I'm included) who keep complaining!
Increase in Low EQ in Voice Set and significant adjustments to the Resonance DSP plus a few tweaks will give improvements, enough to motivate me, because of its overall quality, to play the cfx for relaxation - ie. not too much frustration involved;).
Now for the counter-intuitive bit:
If you want a piano that has some depth and invades your space with resonance when chording and pedalling then try the old LiveGrand (which has been around since Ty2??). On Genos when EQ and Resonance are adjusted this jumps out as more real to me (having grown up with an upright Grand) and I prefer the overall playing experience to the cfx. So Yamaha had the technology then, why wasn't it exploited on later models? (too busy fussing over SA technology I suspect;))
A further step is you can merge the best of both worlds by layering cfx and LiveGrand (using suitable pans and balances). That way you get the Resonance of LG with the longer notes when sustained, of the cfx (the LG very low notes unfortunately fade quicker) and a blend of their timbres, which is not bad IMO!
Purists may not be reassured by "workarounds" but there is no doubt if you want the best from an arranger you have to put some homework into it, other than just sitting and playing. Although I'm only 2 months in, Genos seems to have the tools and quality samples that generally result in a better response to tweaks than Tyros.
Incidentally, it's not always about whether an audience notices a difference, (there doesn't have to be one). Sometimes it's more about whether the player has a feel good factor about the instrument's reactions that provides a motivation that comes through in the music.
When more organised I'll post some registrations of these examples in a different thread so others with a genuine interest in 2-handed piano can try them in Genos if they wish.
John
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A great post John. The need for a better sounding piano has been a priority
for me since my purchase of a Tyros4 then 5 and now the Genos. The remaining instrument voices keep improving with each new flagship. I look forward to hearing your registrations. Thank you. Bob
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A further step is you can merge the best of both worlds by layering cfx and LiveGrand (using suitable pans and balances).
When more organised I'll post some registrations of these examples in a different thread so others with a genuine interest in 2-handed piano can try them in Genos if they wish.
John
That would be great. Thanks John!
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Having been working with the Genos a good amount more; I am discovering aspects I like and things I question..
I think a big issue is, is the Genos trying to be too many things to different people? Personally I hate all the EDM stuff. Now a musician 30 years younger than me, will love it.. Problem, for most EDM kids, the keyboards and workstations, are cheaper.. And if some one who would be into hiphop, EDM music will have little to absolutely no use to the older polkas, marches, and other old world, old school, sounds and patches. To me, the Tyros contained 90% styles, instruments, I could find some use for. The Genos comes in at 65% for me..
Of course Technology always marches forward, so some musicians can't afford to get left upstream.. So there is a pressure to keep up.. I did not appreciate the Genos teaser ads, which looked more like they were a perfume ad, than actually show exactly what it would and would not do to fancy looking with no real 'meat' in the ad. The new designer bragging about how much research he did has to me ADD. The instrument is just too eclectic with no real depth in any one area.
I'm not sure if it's something I haven't discovered yet, but when I change a patch, all arpeggio info disappears. perhaps I need to create registrations, so I don't loose continuity (just thought of that)
Several Accordians just too much out of tune to be of use to me.. I thought I would love the TouchScreen, (I have other kids with them, and always liked them), instead I find it aggravating to have to go levels in to get to the command I want, instead of instantly with the Tyros I have USB sticks, with a substantial amount of styles. If I pick a style, nested two folders in.. Once I exit that folder, If I haven't written down the path, instead of leaving the last open folder highlighted, it becomes blank, making it a tedious task to find that particular style again.
At 69 years of age, maybe I am just losing touch.. In reality, I have been moving away from 'arranger' music.. I am much more in creating independent music lines, with more instruments, so I am becoming less of a 'kbd arranger' kbd. Although I still find them invaluable as a compositional tool. Compositional DAW applications for the most part, can't even get near what Tyros, and Genes can do.
So yes, Yamaha is trying to reach a younger fan base, so us oldsters are dying off, or being priced out of the buying market..
I wished I could have done more research on Genes, before I bought it, I might have not.. Of course because of its price, no store in NYC will put one on sales floor. You have to buy it site/sound unseen. I was forced to buy Tyros 3 - 5 that way, but each version moved in exactly the the direction I was very interested in.
There is NOTHING WRONG with Genos, it's just on closer examination. it is not exactly the instrument I was hoping it would be.. I also hate they fact they decided that brighter and tinnier sound over soaked in reverb (to sound more like the compettion) is the opposite of what I
Lest people think I am just old, grumpy, and angry, (which I am sometimes) I have sent off a few emails, to the developers.. Of course I am only one user, and probably not the kind of user, Yamaha is particularly anxious to hold on to.
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Is it safe to assume that you fellas would dump your Genos to get a T5 again? Weeeellllll, I got a T5, stand, speakers and about a million styles (probably some y'alls too) on flash drives. Plus there are very very few bad notes left as I have used them all up. How many $ plus my T5 would it take to make us all happy. I can't play worth a **** and would enjoy not being able to play worth a **** with a Genos. I'm so much of a music snob I would love to be able to say 'I have the latest and I can't even play, so there'. Trade ya! Don in MI
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Don, now there's a challenge for the regretful Genos owners who sold their T5.
Oh, and yes, I love my Genos.
Murray
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Hi, not only do I envy you having a Genos, WARM weather, and that list of instruments (are they haves or have hads?) you list, you have the AUSTRALIAN OPEN going on. I love playing tennis as much as playing kbds even though I suck at both. Being old is no excuse, I sucked at both when I was 50-60 years younger. Isn't being alive fun? Don in MI
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Having been a faithful Tyros owner (3 of them), I have never heard so much negative publicity about a Yamaha successor keyboard! Is it possible Yamaha hired some idiots from Microsoft, and those idiots were turned loose inside Yamaha and soured the milk? Microsoft has a gift for producing the world's worst crapola. Surely, Yamaha isn't following a broken corporate model.
Then again, perhaps Yamaha hired a whole bunch of new blood that have no idea what the **** they're doing. Sure, they can design and build a great keyboard, but have they totally lost their market focus? I can see phasing out the older players for new, but to drop us off the bridge in one instant is corporate suicide. The Tyros and PSR series were 80 percent musical instruments driven by 20 percent computer technology. It sounds to me like Genos is a 80 percent "broken computer" with 20 percent musicality. That’s an exaggeration, but one must wonder, “What went wrong?” This whole Genos thing has been one bumpy road after another since the pathetic release videos and now, huge numbers of software disappointments. Am I generalizing? Perhaps, but try telling that to the increasingly number of disappointed people who just blew thousands of their country's currency.
Wow, this is really mind boggling. All along, I've complained that we Canadians are last to receive this dream machine. Sounds like we're the lucky ones because the Genos, while sounding pretty good, in reality could be a nightmare. Did the value of my used Tyros 5 just increase 30 percent :)? Paint me skeptical about the Genos.
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Adrian, unfortunately, when wearing a hearing aid, the keyboard will never sound a good as it did when your hearing was not impaired. Hearing aids set up for men tend to amplify high frequency sounds, mainly because that is the sound we, as males, tend to loose with aging and hearing damage from loud noises. Women tend to loose the low frequency sounds for the same reasons. My wife says God intended for this to happen so I can ignore her when she's backseat driving the car and she can ignore me for the same reasons. ;)
Many years ago, I purchased a hearing aid because I could not understand individual voices when I was in a crowd of people, many of whom were talking at the same time. The hearing aid solved that problem, but when I wore it while performing with my keyboard, it amplified the high sounds, and blocked out the mid and low frequency sounds. I stopped using it the following day and never looked back. My best advice: Buy some ear buds, then you can set the volume where it sounds best to you without any outside interference.
Good luck,
Gary 8)
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Is it possible Yamaha hired some idiots from Microsoft, and those idiots were turned loose inside Yamaha and soured the milk? Microsoft has a gift for producing the world's worst crapola.
Why drag Microsoft in this discussion with unsubstantiated claims and a poor choice of words? Please, we're not 15 anymore...
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.... Please, we're not 15 anymore...
As you grow older you will find that you may be young at heart ...... ;)
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Don in MI,
The "have hads" have been removed and the list is what I currently have.
I'm just in the process of purchasing a Cole Clark Fat Lady 3 acoustic guitar which will hopefully be the last purchase for a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvBPrvW3b00
Murray
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WOW!Up to now, Drake was 'DaMan' but you've passed him. As they say somewhere 'good on ya'. I envy the **** out of you as I struggle through what little I am able to accomplish on the T5. Maybe I should take up, uh, just listening. Don in MI
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I think a big issue is, the Genos trying to be too many things to different people? Personally I hate all the EDM stuff.
So yes, Yamaha is trying to reach a younger fan base, so us oldsters are dying off,
At 69 years of age, maybe I am just losing touch..
That’s the exact feeling I got when I had the first ever glimpse of Genos in one of the first video demos - by Martin Harris, I think. When I saw that his left hand was more occupied on the sliders and knobs than it was actually playing the keys, I remember thinking: “Goodbye arrangers… welcome to synth land”! I turned 69 last week, so maybe I’m losing touch as well! :o
And as for this whole thread in general, I'm amazed at how much it's turned into a discussion about piano voices and speakers/PA systems etc., etc., especially as there was much more than that to DavidB's displeasure about the Genos in his opening post. I’m also surprised that I’m the only one to have complimented him on his choice of instrument (the Roland AT-800 organ) when he announcement (Reply #86) that he had just acquired such a magnificent instrument! Makes me think that those who come from an electronic organ background (like myself) are a bit thin on the ground here. Heck, am I THAT old? Hmm, like I said earlier, I was 69 last week so maybe that explains it then!!! ;D ;D
Regards,
Will
To David B: If you still pop in here from time to time, and if you come across this… I hope you are still very happy with the AT-800. And, even more importantly, hope that you are also continuing to respond well to your cancer treatment.
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If it makes you feel any better, Will, I'm 65 soon and cut my teeth on a Lowery Holiday organ back in 1962 :).
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Wow! 69 - sue wish I were 69 again. I was in great physical condition then, good ogled by the ladies a lot, my hair was medium brown, and I was playing 7 days a week plus some night jobs to boot. Never thought those days would end, but at age 76, last year, I had to retire because of poor health issues. Yep, right now, 69 seems very young to me. ;)
Good luck,
Gary 8)
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To David B: If you still pop in here from time to time, and if you come across this… I hope you are still very happy with the AT-800. And, even more importantly, hope that you are also continuing to respond well to your cancer treatment.
Thank you Will. My treatment starts for real tomorrow, so I guess it's the big day but I have to admit to being more than a little bothered by what side effects I might suffer. Still, a little discomfort to attempt to beat and evil disease will be worth it I hope.
As for the Atelier, I absolutely love it. It is totally focused on the kind of music I want to play and the sound quality, particularly of some of the SA voices (Yep, Roland have them too) is wonderful. I was playing it the other evening, and I suddenly realised I wasn't hitting as many bum notes on the Roland, when I remembered an article I read about how Roland stick to the tried, tested and proven 165mm per octave and Yamaha have reduced their keyboards to 160mm. It seems for my fat fingers, that 5mm makes all the difference.
Anyway, I don't want to bash the Yamaha's, if you're happy with yours then I really am delighted for you. Mine Genos is still for sale, and for me I made absolutely the right decision getting the Atelier.
Thanks again for asking after me Will,
David.
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My treatment starts for real tomorrow, ...
Good luck, David!
-- pj
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David, Wishing you the best with your treatments, Godspeed!
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If it makes you feel any better, Will, I'm 65 soon and cut my teeth on a Lowery Holiday organ back in 1962 :).
Hi Lee, Even though you’re a few years younger than me, having started in 1962, you are many years ahead of me in this game as I didn’t get into it until the early 70s. In those days, live organ music in pubs was quite popular, and the one I used to go to almost every Saturday night had a horseshoe Lowrey spinet… can’t remember which model it was though, but it certainly got me very interested!
Wow! 69 - sue wish I were 69 again. I was in great physical condition then, good ogled by the ladies a lot, my hair was medium brown, and I was playing 7 days a week plus some night jobs to boot. Never thought those days would end, but at age 76, last year, I had to retire because of poor health issues. Yep, right now, 69 seems very young to me. ;)
Good luck,
Gary 8)
Thanks Gary. So far, I also consider myself very fortunate to be in pretty good shape: Height 6ft 1in; Weight: 70.3 kg; BMI: 20.4; Restring HR: 48 (see link to a recent photo below). I walk (briskly) 40 to 45 miles per week, and one of my other hobbies is cycling (road, not MTB). According to one study on fit cyclists, it was found that several in the 55 to 79 age category who cycled regularly were physically and biologically much younger than most people of the same age – up to about 10 years younger in some cases! But unlike you when you were 69, I can’t say I’ve noticed being ogled by the opposite sex, ha-ha!! ;D ;D But those who meet me for the first time are usually quite surprised when I tell them my age… I also have a wife who is almost 12 years my junior! :)
But to steer back to keyboards and music. None of the above will make me appear any younger where my musical tastes are concerned, as it’s very much Ballroom, Country, light/gentle Jazz, Latin and anything of the ‘easy listening’ genre I’m afraid. I daresay, therefore, that I’m still a bit of a dinosaur to the youngsters who want tons of EDM/Techno and the like!
http://will49.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p2714937939.jpg
Kind regards,
Will
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Thank you Will. My treatment starts for real tomorrow, so I guess it's the big day but I have to admit to being more than a little bothered by what side effects I might suffer. Still, a little discomfort to attempt to beat and evil disease will be worth it I hope. Thanks again for asking after me Will
Hello David. No problem at all; I’ve often been wondering how things are with you. I wish you all the very best with your treatment, and hope that none of the possible side effects will be too troublesome!
I was very pleased to read that you are very happy with the Atelier. It’s a beautiful instrument; I’ve watched several YouTube videos of Hector Olivera on the Atelier organs… amazing stuff! All the best for now; please keep us posted.
Kind regards,
Will
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Hi David,
We have communicated by PM concerning the Genos and I did wish you well at that point. But I hope and pray that your treatment will be totally successful and that any side effects will be minimal.
As regards the Atelier, I am so pleased that you are enjoying it. It is my kind of instrument and I have a Yamaha AR100 which is of a similar ilk to your Atelier. I wish you many happy years playing it.
I played at a Bingo Hall (Regal, Darlaston) at weekends from 1973 to 1994 and enjoyed playing a Hammond C3 there. But, unfortunately, the demise of the home organ had begun by 1994.
I play the same genres of music as Will and some light Classical music and still prefer the organ to the keyboard and I really should play my AR100 more but poor health in the form of a mini stroke a couple of years ago. I am 76 and until then was quite active but I find it difficult to play for long periods without some discomfort afterwards.
As others have said, I hope you will drop in on these forums. I don’t think that you have to own a Yamaha or any other make of instrument to be a member and you can be sure of a welcome from everyone.
Kindest regards
Trevor
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I played at a Bingo Hall (Regal, Darlaston) at weekends from 1973 to 1994 and enjoyed playing a Hammond C3 there. But, unfortunately, the demise of the home organ had begun by 1994.
Hello Trevor, That was indeed a very sad time. I remember drooling over a Yamaha EL90 in a music store in Swindon when they first appeared here in the UK... must have been around 1991. Sadly though, I think its price tag was around £10,000… which was more than double the cost of the most expensive organ I've ever had (a Kawai DX-900) eight years earlier in 1983!
Physically, my current keyboard, the Tyros 5/76, is the largest I’ve ever owned (size and weight is if no consequence to me as a home player) but without an upper and lower manual, a bass pedalboard, and all housed in an elegant cabinet like your Yamaha AR-100 and DavidB’s Roland Atelier AT-800, it’s still a keyboard… NOT an organ! Having said that though, as keyboards go, it’s the best sounding one I’ve had to date - I love the Ensemble feature and, of course, the Organ World! And with its size and tit up screen etc., it’s certainly the most impressive looking one I’ve ever had as well. In fact, I’m not sure now where I might go from here because I’m afraid that the Genos does nothing at all to impress me in terms of looks when compared to a T5/76, so I don’t see me changing it any time soon! I apologise to all of you proud Genos owners out there for having said that… perhaps it’s just my rather old-fashioned way of looking at these things!
Kind regards,
Will
P.S. Sorry to see that you suffered a mini stroke a couple of years ago, Trevor, but it’s good to see that you are still able to play your keyboard and your AR-100... albeit for short periods at a time. I obviously don’t know exactly how the mini stroke has affected you, but perhaps regular intervals at the keyboard and the AT-100 might be beneficial by way of post-stroke physiotherapy? So try to stick at it as much as you can… unless your doctor tells you otherwise obviously!
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Everytime i read this topic title, it makes me wonder.
How can anyone be dissapointed by the Genos?
I just don't get it, i am having so much fun, and enjoying the sound so much.
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I think, Yamaha praised Genos too much, so we expected too much.
Is the Genos an organ or not?
Well, the portable D-Deck type Electone organ hasn't a wooden cabinet, it is more like a Tyros/Genos with one more keyboard.
And in the 1970's there were much organs with one keyboard only in a suitcase.
I guess, that much organ users ignored the bass pedalboard, used auto bass and auto accomp instead, had a spinet organ with 2 x 44 keys - for these people a Genos/Tyros wouldn't be a disadvantage and if they dislike the look, they could buy a CVP arranger piano instead.
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Everytime i read this topic title, it makes me wonder.
How can anyone be dissapointed by the Genos?
I just don't get it, i am having so much fun, and enjoying the sound so much.
Agree. I've had several other arrangers, sold them all and bought two Genos arrangers, one for home and one for the studio. All around great keyboard.
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Everytime i read this topic title, it makes me wonder.
How can anyone be dissapointed by the Genos?
I just don't get it, i am having so much fun, and enjoying the sound so much.
PLUS ONE! 42 years ago I worked in sales for a Hammond Dealer, at the time the top of the line spinet organ was the Aurora........selling price $4500. Fast forward to today it was in the price class of the Genos, but could not nearly come close to what Genos is capable of sounding like.
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How can anyone be dissapointed by the Genos? I just don't get it...
Well, I think that question has already been answered. Some (including DavidB here in this very thread) have already given us their very explicit reasons why they feel Genos is not suited for their needs and/or tastes! I guess it's very much like the old saying goes: 'One man's meat is another man's poison'! I don't think there will ever be one keyboard (not even Genos following future updates) that will be everything to all people! 😉
Regards,
Will
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I have a Yamaha CP4 stage piano, which has the CFX sample as its 'centrepiece'. I also have a Tyros 5, and have played the Genos extensively in store.
In some respects. one could categorise the CP4 as disappointing. There is no string resonance, pedal noise etc implemented and there is quite audible looping on the decay of each note. However, in live stage situations, these are the little details which often get buried anyway, so one could argue (and I suppose Yamaha would) that the points I raise are not as critical as they might first appear.
Anyway, what I'm trying to get over is that this is a board of some compromises. However, even within these parameters, I can tell you that neither the pianos on my T5 nor those on the Genos get CLOSE to the richness and complexity of the CP4's CFX voice. Sure, not having a lovely, properly weighted action to play them on doesn't help (the CP4's NW-GH keybed is probably the nicest stage piano action on the market right now) but the pianos on the Yamaha arranger series sounds like those on a digital piano from around five years back.
David, for what it's worth, if pianos are a real priority, I would sell the Genos and attempt to track down a recent, lightly used CVP. However, all the above pales into significance regarding your recent health news, and I am very glad there is room for positivity there.
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I'm not sure why some people think the Genos acoustic pianos are lacking in substance. The only reason I can think of is maybe their hearing is impaired - hearing aids do have a tendency to distort what it is you are listening to) or they haven't adjusted the EQ settings to a suitable preference. Listen to these Youtube demos and then tell me again why it is you dislike the CFX Concert Grand or perhaps one of the other acoustic pianos on the Genos??
Genos CFX Concert Grand Piano Demo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJLryqKHnX8)
Genos C7 Grand Piano Demo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx2NEMPt0vc)
Genos CFX Concert Grand Piano (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDWgtDhFK0)
Genos - All Pianos, note... a few mistakes along the way ;D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFTZjHIKoaU)
Genos acoustic pianos including S.Art CFX Concert Grand Piano plus other Voices (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juPi35aL-_A)
PS: Certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion but nobody is entitled to their own facts. No disrespect but the fact is the Genos acoustic pianos are perhaps the best of any arranger currently on the market and that includes the Korg Pa4x as well as the Ketron SD-9. Using a sustain pedal will also add more depth and realism too. 8)
Sincerely,
Mike
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Wonderful playing, Mike.
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That’s the exact feeling I got when I had the first ever glimpse of Genos in one of the first video demos - by Martin Harris, I think. When I saw that his left hand was more occupied on the sliders and knobs than it was actually playing the keys, I remember thinking: “Goodbye arrangers… welcome to synth land”! I turned 69 last week, so maybe I’m losing touch as well! :o
And as for this whole thread in general, I'm amazed at how much it's turned into a discussion about piano voices and speakers/PA systems etc., etc., especially as there was much more than that to DavidB's displeasure about the Genos in his opening post. I’m also surprised that I’m the only one to have complimented him on his choice of instrument (the Roland AT-800 organ) when he announcement (Reply #86) that he had just acquired such a magnificent instrument! Makes me think that those who come from an electronic organ background (like myself) are a bit thin on the ground here. Heck, am I THAT old? Hmm, like I said earlier, I was 69 last week so maybe that explains it then!!! ;D ;D
Regards,
Will
To David B: If you still pop in here from time to time, and if you come across this… I hope you are still very happy with the AT-800. And, even more importantly, hope that you are also continuing to respond well to your cancer treatment.
I'm 54, and I originally learned keyboard on home organs, starting in 1978. This coming March 21 will be 40 years from my first lesson! My first organ was a small Wurlitzer 375 -- It was a (relatively) low-cost spinet, but had a very neat feature -- a small, synth-like 3rd solo keyboard (it was even called an Orbit Synthesizer). Then, later in the year, when it was clear I was interested in music and that it wasn't just a passing childhood fad, they got me a Yamaha D-80. This also had a 3rd synth-type keyboard that even had portamento!
I sold the D-80 in 1985, and since then, I have made an organ-style cabinet and have mounted a variety of keyboards on it. I currently use a Yamaha PSR-E433 as the main instrument, and have a lower-cost Casio 88-key weighted-key digital piano as the lower keyboard. For the bass pedals, I bought a cheap set of 1-octave pedals back in 1985 when I originally started this type of set-up, but they kept going out of tune. When the tuning potentiometer was as far as it could go and I still could not tune it, I gutted it, then hard-wired the bass pedals to the lower octave of a small Casio MT-68 mini keyboard, which I use to this day. Everything goes through an inexpensive multi-channel mixer, then on to a set of JBL powered speakers and -- when I really want to risk an eviction notice -- a 100 watt Realistic amp hooked to a Cerwin Vega speaker with a 15 inch woofer!
As for Yamaha dropping consideration of their traditional arranger customers all at once, I would certainly hope that is not the case. If they have people with over four grand laying around to spend on a keyboard, they had best do what they can to keep those customers happy as long as possible!
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Why not just get an MP11 ? That is one **** of a set up Abby .you are awesome on youtube WOW !!!
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Hi everybody,
As I said when it came out, although there has been some evolution in the sound, Genos is a scam in the sense that we have been told a revolution, whereas it is only an evolution certainly interesting of Tyros 5 of which it takes at least 90% of the characteristics. It is not the touch screen or the so-called live control which is used by a very little part of users , that justify such a price and such hype. Moreover, many have separated to go elsewhere, at least in France, on the side of Pa4X Korg which offers many more opportunities and especially regular updates, while at Yamaha, they are really few and bring nothing very new on the last model, as on the Tyros 5 besides when there was one!
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Mmm, I wonder who you want to convince with your 'statement'? Yamaha…??? The Genos-owners certainly not! So what remains is … yourself?? :)
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Interesting comment Seagull 29. I had a hard time understanding your post, likely due to poor translation software.
At any rate, your "scam" comment holds very little water because even months after its release, Yamaha still can't keep up with the demands for a Genos. I owned three Tyros keyboards and I can tell you, the Genos is a huge step forward in sound alone. The Tyros is still a legend, but Genos kills it hands down in most ways.
Just my two cents worth ;).
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Hi Lee,
I have to agree that Genos is great and hundreds of us are enjoying it. No scams here.
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Hi Lee,
I have to agree that Genos is great and hundreds of us are enjoying it. No scams here.
Same here, the GENOS is great.
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I also love my GENOS which is for me an infinite source of inspiration.
the controversy with the Korg PA 4X makes no sense. These are two extraordinary machines.
We may prefer the sound color of one or the other; as we would have a preference for a BMW or a MERCEDES.
Both are beautiful and serve musicians.
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Just received my brand new Genos yesterday. Have gone through:
- Roland D-20 with floppy disk drive (remember 1990?)
- Yamaha Motif XS6 (Wow...)
- Roland VP-770 (beautiful vocal ensemble + vocoder)
- Roland TR-707
- Korg Kronos 1st gen (great keybed, lightweight, but over complicated menus)
- Korg PA-900 (too plasticky for my taste)
- Yamaha AN1X (****... why I had to sell it?)
- Novation Bass Station 2 (great keybed also + step sequencer delight)
- Korg Volca Sample + Volca Bass
- Roland SH-01a module
- KAWAI ES110
- KAWAI ES8
- KAWAI MP7 SE
- Roland RD-2000
- Yamaha Montage 6
- Native Instruments S61 MKI and MKII
and finally a Yamaha Genos. Uffff.... ;)
All of the above sold. Why? Just because I didnt connect with the instrument. The exception? Yamaha Motif XS6. Then why sell it? The weight... 15kg + bag on your shoulder stairs up and down = disloged shoulder sooner or later!
Why Genos? As soon as I realised the Genos only weighted 13kg and had the FSX keybed I was thrilled.
The Montage 6 was close but it came with a keybed issue (noises), and was over complicated to work with. Besides I realised I didnt want to spend my time tweaking / programming sounds but simply playing along.
There came the Genos auto accompaniment which works.... WOW! + great sounds + super intuitive and simple menus = playing and composing on the fly satisfaction. 8)
So thats it. A trully great instrument that is worth every cent. Mine was 3150€ brand new, which is a great price (the best) in all Europe at this moment.
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Wow, that's a lot of keyboards you've been through over the years! I'm glad you're happy with your new Genos. :)
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As you grow older you will find that you may be young at heart ...... ;)
Thank you for that! I'm pushing 71 years old and I... LOVE... EDM. Give me more features on the next arranger too. I would like to get rid of some of my external MIDI hardware if Yamaha add more Live Control capabilities to the arranger.
"Different strokes for different folks"
;)
Joe H
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Genos is great!
The more you get your head round it, the more capable it becomes, and you will come to absolutely love it.
Al. 👍😁👌
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In simple terms. I LOVE MY GENOS!! :)
P.S. For gigs I use a Bose Compact or a Maui LD5. When I’m rehearsing at home I use both units in stereo.
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If you use the Genos only/mainly at home, treat yourself to some active speakers.
Good ones are expensive, but will give a great improvement over the cheap accessory speaker set Yamaha designed for the keyboard.
Good Piano sounds carry a lot of bass, and the standard set wont give the quality.
Al.
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I would say do like Abby and get the best piano in the world .....Kawia MP 11
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If you get the Genos make sure you have a decent speaker system and not the tin pot ones that go with it. :o
The Genos speakers are tinny with a sub boom box. All Tin and boom, boom. :P ;D
To me It is like a transister radio with AMSTRAD written on It. Also comes with battery wires and a very messy layout.
Yamaha HS &,HS8 ,or better still Focal Alpha 50's.
No good running a Rolls Royce with a Mini engine.
The Genos on a decent system brings the 3d out more with realism.
Albags has also got It right :)
I cannot recommend the Focal Alpha50's enough,they are class. £187 each. The detail is mind blowing. A no brainer deal.
They have no volume knob, but are controlled by the Genos. These speakers are muted when switched on and when you turn up the Genos about half way they come alive after pressing a couple of keys. if you turn up Genos volume any less they just take more seconds to come alive. After they come alive, just use the volume that suits you
I am running them In at the moment which is 20 hours and I sit there with amazement at what they do. They are flat to pick detail out and when I tried Kraftwerk Autobahn and Music Non Stop It was astonishing. I am running the speakers In with lower frequency music as suggested by the Maker. Not EDM though. Kraftwerk Is where I stop at and Jarre. Just music that uses lower sound In general. On the Genos the Strings are 100% now. The whole lot is sheer clarity. Not if you have a bad hearing aid!! ;D ;D ;D
ATB
John :)
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If you use the Genos only/mainly at home, treat yourself to some active speakers.
Good ones are expensive, but will give a great improvement over the cheap accessory speaker set Yamaha designed for the keyboard.
Good Piano sounds carry a lot of bass, and the standard set wont give the quality.
Al.
I totally agree Al and even a £1000 for speakers would be not over the top for a £4000 machine
If people pay a lot of money for a class keyboard then It is no good hooking It up to a transitor radio!!!or anything made by AMSTRAD!!! made In Timbuktu. ;D ;D ;D
I would say to Alan Sugar " Your Fired"!! ;D
all the best :)
John :)
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I am wondering, if you buy a better speaker set, do you need to mount them on stands at ear-height or can they be placed on the floor?
Sorry if that's a stupid question.
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That depends on the speaker type. Studio monitors are normally very dependent on the direction and best mounted at ear level, directed at your head position.
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Genos. Best keyboard I’ve ever owned.
In the past I’ve had Tyros 4, PA4X, still have the S970 and owned PSR models before that.
Guess I’ve bonded with the Genos.
:)
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I would say do like Abby and get the best piano in the world .....Kawia MP 11
It truly is the best piano in terms of sound and key action. No arranger piano can substitute the feel of real wooden keys plus the synthetic Ivory.
This piano has the same key length and action of a Concert Grand, where the key action is
on a fulcrum, as opposed to springs.
I see that you have the MP7, which also has a very good action.
I find that the MP11, coupled with my T3, fully satisfies my musical needs for the moment.
It pays to take plenty of time to delve into the EQ and Compression of the T3, to make it sound
as rich and full as any other more recent arranger.
In fact it pays to delve into the EQ and Compressor of all arrangers, something that is frequently
overlooked, or underrated, or sometimes applied only as an afterthought.
My amplified mixer also has a compressor for each individual channel. I apply compression to my
microphone, and now and then very slightly apply this compression to the MP11 and the T3 channels.
The sound becomes absolutely phenomenal.
On the subject of speakers and monitors, while there are plenty of very good speakers and monitors on
the market, the perfect speakers or monitors do not exist.
The sound always has to be EQd and compressed to perfection in the instrument and the mixer,
before it actually winds it's way to the speakers.
Best Regards.
Abby.
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Focal alpha 50s You will be blown away!! 8)
ATB
JOHN
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Abby...you are a great performer...keep it up .Enjoy all your youtube vids !!!
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....I find that the MP11, coupled with my T3, fully satisfies my musical needs for the moment......It pays to take plenty of time to delve into the EQ and Compression of the T3, to make it sound as rich and full as any other more recent arrangers....apply this compression to the MP11 and the T3 channels. The sound becomes absolutely phenomenal.
Best Regards.
Abby.
Dear Abby,
nice to have you back with your advice, not only watching and listening to you on utube. Agree with Gary, ..you are a great performer...keep it up. Have been missing you, hope you have been absent due to heavy gigging and not exhaustion in this exceptionally hot summer.
Cheers
Kaarlo
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I am also very disappointed by Yamaha with Genos. This is supposed to be their greatest machine but its a disappointment. There is no training material (only poor quality videos from other users with fragmented information). They still use YEM which is like it was created for Windows 3.1 that is slow and not easy to use. Even their site for buying expansion packs seems deprecated. Its slow and unresponsive. Really... this is a shame. Don't get me wrong. This is a great hardware piece, but the software and training... is awful...
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Do you have the Genos?
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Yes I have Genos. I bought it 5 months ago.
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I agree that YEM has some challenges, but the Genos is fantastic!
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I agree that the YEM program is a awful piece of software, and the MusicSoft site is hosted in the US with a very slow response and very sluggish.
That makes the Genos not a bad keyboard, if all is loaded then you the best board there is on the market .
I hoped that Yamaha wil make a better editor and a system that looks like the Montage & Modx editors and working with a I-pad .
Don’t forget that all this is made because all people try to copy the software and try to get it for free, in the future with giga bite networks it can be done online and loading in seconds .
Soneg 🎹🎹👍👍😎
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It's like having a new Mercedes that you have to crank to get started.
I know they are trying to protect content so they can continue to develop and sell things, but they surely could have made it simpler to use their software.
If there is any way for people to steal the fruit of their efforts though, they WILL.
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Thersippos
Sorry to hear you are not happy with the Genos keyboard.
Continuing with Don's analogy, it seems to me that . . . it is like having a brand new Mercedes but being disappointed because the Mercedes user manual is not that good . . . or the lack of training material for the Mercedes . . .
However, regardless of the lack of training material or poor quality of user manual, etc. The Mercedes car is still a great car. (this also applies to your favorite car brand).
The same with Genos, the user manuals, the YEM, the website, etc. are not that great . . . however, that does not discount the quality of Genos . . . it is still a great keyboard.
After the Genos V2.0 upgrade a lot of people are frustrated (including myself) with how difficult the upgrade was . . . . loosing some original settings, etc. unfortunately, Yamaha does not make it easy in that respect . . . however, that does not reflect on the quality of the keyboard itself. It does reflect on the Yamaha company, but the Genos is still a great piece of equipment.
Hope that gradually you will be happier with Genos or that you get a good offer and recover most of your initial investment when you sell it. It will sell very quick. !!! That is for sure.
You all have a great night.
thanks
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Hi
I cannot understand people saying how difficult the upgrade is.
It is not rocket science.
A few simple steps and a little patience and it is done
The instructions are plain and clear reading the pdf file..
I must admit that the instructions for what is in the update are scattered all over the place and would be nice to have had a simple added section all in one about all modifications and what they do and how to access them. Yamaha documentaion a little behind.
With a little patience again you can figure it out.
The chord looper is easy to understand and a few modified screens, but we all may be missing small detail if not highlighted.
The Genos is a fantastic machine. Cubase also.
Agree Yem could be better.
All the :)best
John
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H John
I have to agree with most of what you say,I did find the upgrade a bit frustrating,but with help of the good folk on here I got the job done eventually.
Was it worth it,well yes it is probably advisable to always have the latest O/S installed but I don't know if I'll take advantage of all the new additions,the chord looper looks really useful though.Luckily I didn't have a whole lot of files and settings of great importance,so I'll gradually get it back to my preferences over time.I can though empathise with those who use their Genos for gigs etc.and I think Yamaha could have made it less worrying for those.
The Superior has some nice additional styles and voices and I'll take a look at those over time.
Alan
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I think we must look at it this way the update a couple of years ago would not have been possible so we would have had to purchase a new keyboard to get any new functions. Yamaha have now done this with there version 2. All alterations including the extra memory have been done by hardware and not taken from other parts of the keyboard. You now in effect have a new keyboard and as such all settings are back to factory settings just as they are when you take a new keyboard out of the box.
If you took pictures or screen shots of all your user settings then you can easily put them back with no problem which I have done.
As for the YEM the new version is working well and remember most of us use this for expansion packs and now we can load a pack without it formatting the memory so that is a good addition.
The superior pack is another nice FREE addition with some grate new styles to use.
I for one am very pleased to have all this completely free.
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John, I think the biggest obstacle for people has been with the YEM software upgrade. I haven't even installed 1.41 yet :o but from what I see, 2.0 is fairly straight forward. What isn't easy revolves around all the customizations that people have made to their Genos that are now gone.
One very important rule we technical writers have is to never use the word "simply" when creating our documentation. We see it used in so many places, especially in procedures. When you use the word "simply" and the user can't get the item to work, you just called him or her a moron. Yamaha is not alone.
Each day we all read instructions that make no sense. A company spends literally millions of dollars developing a product, and then they let the engineers and secretaries write the manuals ::)!!
Back to the original subject. David, several people have found the Genos to sound very flat and basic right out of the box. Personally, I found that I had to really play around with EQ and Compression settings to get a decent marriage between the Genos and my sound system. Several people have also mentioned the Genos speakers are pretty mediocre for what they cost. I think a good sound can be had with the Genos. The pianos will never be up to par with Yamaha's dedicated pianos. For that, you can blame the marketing team :). On the other hand, Yamaha could do what Nord did. They dedicated a full gigabyte or two just for their piano sounds. I think Yamaha could do that for a reasonable cost without shooting themselves in the foot by decreased electronic piano sales. The Genos pianos are far better than the Tyros ones, in my humble opinion.
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Personally I don't think, this keyboard is flat, I used the Tyros1 and 3 for many years. I switched to ketron Audya 4, for a while because my back problems, it was nice but I found myself taking longer to set-up and carried the module and Yamaha keyboard.
When Genos came out, I tried it because of the extra keys and it is lighter then my old Tyros. I had a little hard time to understand how the system works, once I understood how it works, it became easy to set-up. To change instruments, volume etc is not difficult once you understand it.
I didn't upgrade, I just adjust the styles the way I want and save them in Registration.
I have several videos on you tube, I am not even a keyboard player. I just posted this video, you may want to look and listen, nothing fancy just sat and played.
I use BOSE L1 sound system.
https://youtu.be/n1AqRc4yHJk
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DavidB...I think the answer is to get a CFX Grand from Yamaha.
Lee
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I am trying to understand this thread in it's present form.
The last time that the OP DavidB posted about his dissatisfaction with his Genos
was on the 18th of January 2018.
He probably doesn't even own a Genos anymore, and the last he seems to have posted
or appeared on this forum seems to have been on that date too.
Yet I still see folks here giving him advice on not letting go of his instrument.
???.
Best Regards,
Abby.
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David has not logged into the forum since August 5, 2019. :(
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I am trying to understand this thread in it's present form.
The last time that the OP DavidB posted about his dissatisfaction with his Genos
was on the 18th of January 2018.
He probably doesn't even own a Genos anymore, and the last he seems to have posted
or appeared on this forum seems to have been on that date too.
Yet I still see folks here giving him advice on not letting go of his instrument.
???.
Best Regards,
Abby.
Hi Abby,
I got one. :)
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Hi Don,
Congratulations
I hope that you've come to grips with it and that you like it, considering that you're more
experienced with other keyboards.
My Best Regards,
Abby.
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I'm actually liking it better than I thought I would.
I am using all my old registrations in it, but I am changing each one individually to better utilize the new styles and sounds. Been working on it for nearly two weeks, and expect to start using it on the job this week sometime.
They key touch on the Korg PA4x was starting to hurt my fingers and hands, playing four hours every night. The keys on the Genos are much lighter and very responsive.
The Genos has finally incorporated some of the Korg features I love so much, like looper, programmable sliders and knobs, nice touch screen, joystick, songbook and improved drums. It still trails in vocal harmony, but I'm getting around it o.k.
Pianos, guitars, strings, horns, vocal sounds are all great, and the drums finally got a lot better than before.
I think I'm going to be satisfied with it! :) I find myself using the multipads much more than on previous models.
Had to change keyboard stands and buy a new bag. :(
I still have the "lowly" Roland EA7 as well, and it is probably the best bargain ever in arrangers. I will keep it as backup and for jobs where I have to move in and out somewhere. The Genos will stay in one place, where I work almost all the time.
I wish you good luck with your Genos and hope you will enjoy it for many years to come.
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Don, congratulations😀😀🌲🌲
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Don I knew you were gonna LOVE Genos ...I love mine a lot.
and the more your gig with it I am sure you will discover so many wonderful things inside.
Can't wait to hear some gig recordings also...go for it and enjoy!! 8)
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Hi Don,
So pleased to hear you are liking Genos. Look forward to hearing some of your recordings.
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I have had my Genos for over a month now. Loving it!
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Used it on the job last night for the first time. So far, so good...still lots of adjustments to make, but that is to be expected.
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The Genos suits all my requirements and more. It has a great sound and I love having 76 keys instead of the 61 keys I had on the Tyros 5.
Last night I was playing here in my home studio. I am working on a new song and it's a difficult one. Every so often i would change to other songs just to get away from constantly playing the same one. I took a break for dinner at about 8pm but went back to playing after.
When I started yawning, I looked at the clock and it was 11.30pm. I had started playing at about 5pm. I was using headphones so thankfully I did not disturb the neighbours. It was a really productive session. I now have some ideas for three or 4 songs that I hope to do before Xmas.
BTW I have not updated to the version 2 software yet. I don't think I need it. The chord looper might be interesting, but it does not compare to what I can do with my Midi Maker software, which can create complete backing tracks. I might update at some stage to get the extra styles but really I already have thousands of styles and I have not even listened to all the Genos styles, much less used them.
Bottom line: the Genos is fabulous and I love it. What will Yamaha come up with next I wonder.
Regards,
Richard
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David,
I'm happy to hear you are responding to your treatments. Cancer sucks!
As far as the Genos is concerned, I just purchased one in November myself. You really need to give yourself more time with it. I came from a long line of Tyros keyboards 1,2,4,5 before the Genos.
The Tyros 5 was a great keyboard as well.
Out of the box the Genos is flat. You need to spend time setting the EQ and Compressor settings yourself or choose one of the several preset ones. Anything is better than flat. You will love the new touch screen and having a full keyboard to type is long over due. I have both the Yamaha Genos speakers and 2 Bose 1 Compacts. I played it for the first two weeks with the Genos speakers, before I hooked up the Bose. This required resetting the EQ and Compressor settings. This can only be done by you, because you will be the one listening to it. Only you know your taste.
I lot of people when spending a lot of money as with the Genos experience buyers remorse. Ignore it LOL, and enjoy it!
With what you are going through health wise, I'm sure it is hard to concentrate on your music, as family and friends are more important. That being said for me, music is a great escape, to get away from worries with health and other things going on in everyday life.
Give the Genos a chance, I''m sure your mind will change. The piano is not a huge improvement for sure but it is better the older keyboards when properly adjusted. The rest of the new voices and the new drums are amazing.
Here's to your continued recovery! Cheers!
Rick D.
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Rick D This is a very old post and DaveB has sold his Genos, his last post on this forum was August last year so it is unlikely that he will post on this thread and he has moved to Roland keyboards. This thread has has come alive again because geniusram has inconsiderately spammed the forum with the link to his youtube channel.
Can A moderator please lock this thread?
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Have banned the spammer and locked this old thread