PSR Tutorial Forum
PSR Keyboards (11 Boards) => PSR-S970/S770/S670 (SFF2) => Topic started by: Chronos1976 on December 07, 2015, 03:27:55 AM
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Hi everyone,
[UPDATE March 20th 2016: Yamaha have released a v1.05 firmware update that appears to fix the issue for many users but please keep reporting to Yamaha and this thread if it hasn't worked for you. Thanks, Paul.]
I've been having a problem with a couple of PSR s970's and their [A] to [J] keys registering either not at all or double pressing. I'm wondering if other people have the same problem?
Here's a a link to three videos showing tests that demonstrate faulty right screen buttons, normal left screen buttons and another test showing faulty right screen buttons:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/clouddrive/share/5859MRIAkh8D0B3QTwKSW9vig3ZrR7OX1V82YKgnO5n?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy
The Fault
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The fault appears as if the keyboard behaves erratically, randomly exits screens (most noticeable when selecting voices), on/off buttons changing from on to off to on again in one press (e.g. in the organ flute screen, the vocal harmony screen, song setting screen), button presses not being recognised, save and information requesters cancelling themselves, saves overwriting without confirmation, or other intermittent random events occurring when pressing the [A] to [J] screen buttons.
The actual fault is the [A] to [J] buttons intermittently registering as a double press instead of a single press or not registering at all. It can affect the buttons on one or both sides of the screen. The keyboards I had were part of the November batch delivered to the UK and were both tested running firmware 1.03 and 1.04.
TEST YOUR KEYBOARD
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To see if your keyboard is affected, follow these procedures:
TEST 1 (demonstrates fault on both sides)
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1. Disconnect all external devices such as pedals, WIFI dongles, USB sticks and MIDI cables.
2. Power on the keyboard.
3. From the main screen, press the [Piano] voice category button to open the voice selection screen.
4. Single press button [A] then [B ] then [C] then [D] then [E]. Repeat 12 times (60 key presses). The timing between button presses doesn’t matter but ensure they are all single button presses.
RESULT: If your keyboard is OK, the selection will move with the key press. If your left hand screen buttons are faulty, the keyboard will exit the voice selection screen back to the main screen during the test.
5. If your keyboard went back to the main screen, return to the voice selection screen.
6. Single press button [F] then [G] then [H] then [I ] then [J]. Repeat 12 times (60 key presses). The timing between button presses doesn’t matter but ensure they are all single button presses.
RESULT: If your keyboard is OK, the selection will move with the key press. If your right hand screen buttons are faulty, the keyboard will exit the voice selection screen back to the main screen during the test.
TEST 2 (only demonstrates fault on the right hand side buttons)
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- See video. From the main screen single press [G], [H], [G], [F] and keep repeating the cycle for about 60 key presses. If the voice selection screen appears, you have faulty right hand buttons.
Please let Yamaha Technical Support know if you have this problem. It would be useful to compile a list of people with the issue in this thread as well as which keyboard is affected (s970 or s770), the month of purchase (batch if known) and which country the keyboard was purchased and I'll point Yamaha to this thread.
I will update as soon as I get any more information.
Many thanks for any feedback.
Paul.
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I have not tested but think rather that it is a kind of built is protected against overloading of the system?
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I didnt test it as you described above pushing the buttons 60 times but the behaviour u said already happened to me a few times as I thought I pressed the button twice while selecting a voice jumping the main screen..
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Main issue I've noticed on my 970 is that occasionally I have to press a button twice to register the press.
However, after watching your video clip Paul, I did try both tests for you exactly as you describe, and after a few presses mine reset back to the default screen too, with the last pressed voice showing. This happened on both left and right buttons. Strangely the first time I tried it I was going back up to A again when pressing the buttons and it didn't do it, but when following your example of going from A to E and then E to A it did it, same thing when doing the test on the F to J buttons.
So I tried the test again going from A to E and then repeating A to E again and it did reset back after about 6 cycles, so obviously not a pattern to it as I first suspected. Only difference was I had to press F again to return back to the voices select screen, it didn't go back itself.
I think it would be better Paul if you invited people to view the video clip earlier in your post, Simply asking 'DOES YOUR 970/770 DO THIS' ?
IOW give the video clip more priority, I'm sure the response will be better, as I'm sure many people like myself won't be aware of this issue
ie. a Picture/video is better than a thousand words...lol
This is something I personally had not noticed before, the main thing I noticed was that I sometimes needed to press a button twice to register the press, I can't say I've seen evidence of a double press being registered.
I asked my neighbour who has a 770 to try the same thing, he's a retired vicar, and he phoned me back and said his 770 does exactly the same. He also mentioned a while ago that he frequently has to press a button twice to register the press, which is why I figured it was poor button switches. Also noticed I occasionally need to press twice on the right 1 and 2 voice select buttons including the part select buttons.
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Mine does the same!
Scrolling up and down results in jumping to the main screen and auto-select the last pressed button.
I now wonder too if this is more of a common thing than a flaw in the PSR line.
I've never noticed this until i saw your video, and tried. So i agree with textbook, you should give the video more priority.
Maybe Yamaha can fix this in a OS update.
Regards,
Melvin
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Yeah, mine has been jumping all over the place since I got it, even tried resetting it, no improvement. I had to wait nearly 2 months for it to arrive so I don't feel like sending it in for service, hoping an update will fix these issues.
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Thank you for your feedback! :-) I've edited the post to make it clearer, moved the video link up to the top and tried to shorten it a bit. Apologies for the long post. I'll keep trying to cut it down :-)
I too initially thought it was the way I was pressing the buttons - I tried all sorts of keyboard acrobatics including soft presses, hard presses, slow presses, fast presses and all combinations of the above.
It's interesting it affects the 770 as well. Spread the word :-)
mrestyle - I know how you feel - I waited for 2 months to get mine as well and it's a fantastic keyboard but now I've been without one for almost as long. Thank you for posting here. Hopefully if lots of people report the issue in this thread, Yamaha will see there is a broader problem to fix and will be in a better position to address the issue either via a hardware revision or firmware update. Either way, I fear I could be sitting looking at an empty wall for a while longer.
Now if only they would change the red / green LED combination for those of use who are red / green colour blind as well... :-)
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So Paul, has your 970 gone back to Yamaha for this to be checked out then ? as I see you mention you don't have it at the moment.
I must admit, it would make this keyboard perfect if that intermittent missed button press could be fixed with a firmware update, TBH I'd convinced myself it was likely poor switch contacts or similar, and because it was intermittent had tended to ignore it.
In effect, you suspect it's the way the firmware OS is polling the button presses rather than a physical fault with the switches themselves. ?
TBH I thought it was just me, so I suppose it's a little reassuring knowing it's more common than I thought. (or should that be worrying...lol)
I'll contact their support tomorrow, AYS the more that do this the better.
Thanks Paul for initiating the thread, as I suspect it's something that while not catastrophic it probably affects a few of us 970/770 owners.
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Hi,
Yes, both keyboards I had are now under scrutiny at Yamaha Technical Support in Milton Keynes. Thankfully my workflow is mostly VST instruments these days so it isn't much of an interruption just frustrating to wait two months to get it, spend the money and then still have no keyboard two months later.
I initially thought it might be a software issue (maybe a mangled pointer causing a stack or buffer overflow or something) because of there seemed to be a pattern in the faults that repeated every 300 key presses or so but I wasn't in diagnostic mode at the time, just trying to use the thing so I didn't collect any quantitative data.
Having got feedback from a few sources I'm starting to think it's just as likely to be a hardware problem but I'm expecting to hear something tomorrow and will hopefully be able to post something definitive then.
Regards,
Paul.
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Hi,
I initially thought it might be a software issue (maybe a mangled pointer causing a stack or buffer overflow or something) because of there seemed to be a pattern in the faults that repeated every 300 key presses or so but I wasn't in diagnostic mode at the time, just trying to use the thing so I didn't collect any quantitative data.
Having got feedback from a few sources I'm starting to think it's just as likely to be a hardware problem but I'm expecting to hear something tomorrow and will hopefully be able to post something definitive then.
Regards,
Paul.
I can understand why you may suspect a software bug, I doubt it's a stack overflow problem, though certainly if there's a bug in not pulling a value back off the stack so the count gets screwed up it'll cause all sorts of problems, though IME a stack overflow will generally bring everything to a halt unless they have some very good error handling routines in place. TBH I'm out of touch with modern day CPU instruction sets so unsure how improved error handling has become.
Also though it may explain the reset screen, it doesn't explain why the occasional missed key press, which really is my main concern. That sounds more like a key polling issue where it's not polling the keys frequently enough, or AYS it may even be hardware in which case we are stuffed..lol
I look forward to hearing more from you in due course Paul, as I think in reality this affects many 970/770 owners.
Best wishes...Cameron....and BTW keep up the good work. :)
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FWIW, I got mine from Kraft Music in mid-November and it's doing the same thing. What I'm noticing is that when I'm selecting voices, it'll jump all the way out to the main screen. Seems to happen more on the right-hand screen buttons. Just often enough to be annoying.
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I think this should be reported to Yamaha. It sounds like a bug in the firmware. It should require 2 button presses to return to the main screen. Maybe there is a fix for it.
Try this email: YCASupport@yamaha.com
Joe H
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FWIW, I got mine from Kraft Music in mid-November and it's doing the same thing. What I'm noticing is that when I'm selecting voices, it'll jump all the way out to the main screen. Seems to happen more on the right-hand screen buttons. Just often enough to be annoying.
Hi Bill... that's what mine does too, do you also find you need to press a button twice occasionally as they first press didn't work ? I find this more annoying than anything or maybe it's just my 970 that's iffy on the button presses. Though it seems to occur on various buttons not just one or two, and not all the time.
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Hi Bill... that's what mine does too, do you also find you need to press a button twice occasionally as they first press didn't work ? I find this more annoying than anything or maybe it's just my 970 that's iffy on the button presses. Though it seems to occur on various buttons not just one or two, and not all the time.
Good evening,
I have indeed noticed, mostly on a pretty random assortment of buttons, that they might require two presses. I have been thinking that the keyboard is still pretty new to me and I might not be pressing firmly enough. Or perhaps pressing at a slight angle and not straight down. If I do make a conscious firm push, I usually do get the desired result.
It appears to me that there might be an issue with the keyboard's action. (Not the playing keys but the controlling buttons.) I don't know what kind of switch mechanism Yamaha is using, but a growing number of people all experiencing the same or very similar problems certainly indicates, to me at least, a common cause. And I will always suspect a mechanical component or function before an electronic or software function. I suppose there could be a run of flaky keyboards, or perhaps a design flaw in a new "upgraded" keyboard now in production.
With the growing numbers indicated just here on this board, I'd certainly like to see Yamaha do a survey of all owners to see the extent of the problem.
Regards from Oklahoma...
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Thanks Bill, yes it would appear the symptoms are the same, and my neighbours 770 does it too, and indeed I recall a 770 I tried in a music store a few weeks ago needed a couple of presses on the button to make a contact.
I suspect many have this issue where it needs a second firm press of the button, but have tended to dis-regard it as it worked next time, thinking it's likely due to the way they pressed the button, as none us want to think there's a issue with our new keyboard albeit a small one, but it is one that can be annoying. I hope it can be fixed with a firmware update, but like yourself I also suspect.. it's likely caused by very poor switches. Ironically the cheaper 670 didn't have this problem, it's control buttons were plastic, my only criticism with the 670 switches was the fact they gave quite a audible click when pressed, but at least they were positive and worked very time.
It mainly seems to be the black buttons, on mine all the white buttons and Registration switches all work first time, as having to press those twice would be a serious problem indeed.
I assume they are using membrane switches, which work when pressed in the centre similar to those one finds on most TV remote's etc these days, and if not pressed in the centre they don't pop in properly and so don't make a contact, and I suspect that's what's happening, due to the buttons being rather floppy and not shorting out the PCB contact area when pressed.
We could do with a poll of some sort, just to see how many if not all these keyboards are affected.
Also can everyone who is experiencing this problem where you occasionally have to press the black rubber buttons twice,
to get in touch with Yamaha. As the more of us who bring it to their attention, the better chance we have of getting them to sort it out,
assuming it can be fixed. Otherwise it's a case of returning to the dealer as being unfit for the purpose.
YCASupport@yamaha.com (USA)
customer_support_uk@gmx.yamaha.com (For UK customers) Tel: 0844 811 1116 or 01526 2449
Regards...Cameron
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I have just been busy pressing the black buttons on the left and right side of the screen back and forth as suggested and mine are working fine. I do tend to press positively and in the centre of the button though.
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Thanks Eileen, I'm also pressing them positively in the middle. Have you NEVER had to press a black button twice on your 970 at all since receiving your 970..because the first press didn't work ?
I try and press in the centre of the button too, but I still get the odd time where I have to press it a second time, it doesn't seem to be certain buttons either, it can happen with most of the black buttons occasionally, though obviously it's more noticeable with those we use the most.
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On the time where I have had to press twice it was because I had not pressed it properly. I had hit the side of the button. At no time has my screen changed though and gone to home page.
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On my S970, when selecting voices, it often jumps to the main screen (meaning that the button has been double-pressed).
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Yes it also dose this on Tyros 5. It is a short cut for getting back to the main screen.
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Yes it also dose this on Tyros 5. It is a short cut for getting back to the main screen.
Yes of course, but it also happens sometimes, when the button is intended to be pressed once.
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Yes I suppose it is something you have to get used to. As I work mainly from registrations it dose not worry me that much.
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On the time where I have had to press twice it was because I had not pressed it properly. I had hit the side of the button. At no time has my screen changed though and gone to home page.
Me too. I`ve been pressing buttons and pressing buttons all possible and unpossible ways up and down but nothing odd happend with my beloved 970.
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Yes I suppose it is something you have to get used to. As I work mainly from registrations it dose not worry me that much.
Hello Eileen,
Whilst an occasional random double press back to the main screen is annoying during voice selection, when using the sequencers, effect editors, voice set functions and other features of the keyboard regularly these unpredictable and unintended double presses have all sorts of undesirable consequences including permanent loss of data.
When these buttons are being pressed a few hundred times a day there are about 40 keyboard generated errors introduced into the work flow - that's potentially over 200 times a week that information is lost or altered that takes time to correct or restart from scratch. That's not a good statistic for a production environment :-)
However, it's reassuring to hear of keyboards that are not affected (and it's interesting to note the previous generation of keyboards didn't seem to have this issue despite having the same key bed technology) so hopefully the fault is due to an isolated batch of key beds.
Thank you to everyone contributing their experiences of working and faulty keyboards in this thread. I'm wondering if people with working models all bought their keyboards before November?
Regards,
Paul.
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I tried to produce the problem on my S970. I have not had the experience of the keyboard jumping to the Main Screen while navigating through Voice selections, etc. Since I'm just getting setup, I still have Firmware v1.01. Once I update to the current v1.04 I'll see what happens. If the erratic behaviour starts up... then I will assume it is a firmware bug that was introduced since the initial v1.01 release that shipped with the first batch of keyboards.
Those of you who are having this issue should check your firmware version... maybe we can establish a pattern.
Joe H
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1.04. Not sure about 1.03 -- I updated it right after I got it, so not much experience on earlier version.
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I had the problem on both my keyboards with v1.03 and v1.04 firmware versions.
Joe, it will be interesting if the problems appeared after a firmware update. I look forward to seeing what happens when you update. Can you downgrade though if you did get the problem?
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Mines on 1.04. I think 1.03 was installed when I had it but not 100% sure, but the problem of having to press black buttons twice which is my main concern, to make it work has been present since new, so on all firmware versions, which is why I'm inclined to think they are a batch of faulty switches. :(
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Have you spoken to Yamaha about this. They are always the best people to go to.
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I found the luxury of about an hour last night to play my keyboard. I selected a lot of Voices, styles and MIDI song files. I did not experience the glitch of EXIT to the Main screen. I hope to find some time this evening to install the v1.04 firmware. If the problem shows up... then we will know something new.
Joe H
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OK,
I install the v1.04 firmware and my initial testing found no erratic button behaviour or glitches. Everything is working normal. So it appears it is not a firmware problem. Either the problem is with the Voice Panel Board switches or how some of you are pressing the buttons. ???
Joe H
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Have you spoken to Yamaha about this. They are always the best people to go to.
I have sent a email to Yamaha UK outlining the issue of needing to press black buttons twice in order to make contact, and gave the link to this thread, that was about 5 days ago, but not heard back from them yet.
I agree with Joe, I think it's more likely a batch of bad bubble switch panels myself, as it occasionally misses a press even when pressed dead centre and positively, it's not just one or two buttons either, the 'Right-1 and Right-2' and buttons around that area doing it quite often.
I'm not concerned about the issue of reverting back to the main screen, but missing key presses is quite annoying, in view of the fact Yamaha UK have not commented yet, I will give them a ring next week. Fortunately it's just the black buttons, it would have gone back before now had the Registration buttons done it too, but all the white buttons work perfectly.
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Hi everyone.
I spoke to Yamaha today, they have been able to replicate the problem and they are sending me a new PSR s970 next week. Yay!
I have to say I have found Yamaha UK and Allegro Music (where I purchased the keyboard via their website) have been extremely helpful, friendly and efficient through out.
Hopefully we'll hear something official soon.
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What did they have to say about needing to occasionally press the black buttons twice to make it contact ? as that sounds like its more likely to be a hardware problem such as a faulty batch of key panels. rather than a firmware fix. ?
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Hello Folks
Problems with A-J button presses I see !!
I'm Not going to get into the technical aspects, but rather just a friendly, family oriented posting.
Well.... I fixed MY problem today and all problems with missed presses and unintended double presses are gone. I just joined the forum today and thought I might be of help to others with PSR 770. I've had my 770 for a month and this is the first chance I've had to actually use it.
If you look closely at the A-J buttons, you'll notice that the TOPS of these buttons are NOT LEVEL. (unlike all others). The A-E buttons are HIGHER (elevated) on the left side of button.....slanted or sloped towards the screen, and the F-J buttons the HIGHER (elevated) side is on the right side of button....slanted towards the screen. In other words NOT the same.
I believe that they are designed this way in order to facilitate faster and less effort for their function(s). Most people tend to push a button in as close to center as they can. THIS DOES NOT always "work" especially with modern electronics. I'll explain later !!
Firstly: There are many ways in which to use a push button regarding pressure,velocity, angle of incidence,etc. Do you firmly push, moderately press, gently touch (like tablets), quick jab, or hurriedly stab at a button ? . Many people I find tend to use the ball of the finger, while others use finger tips One young lady I watched used her purple fingernails and literally stabbed the poor switch to death,leaving cuts and abrasions on the rubber buttons.
When you use the ball of your finger, you are actually "rolling" your finger around the top(X Y Z axis) of the button,(not realizing of course) and eventually finding the "sweet spot" of the button. Some are better at consistency than others and a tad quicker.
I have several reasons why I think Yamaha made these rubber buttons as they did.
A: leverage.....a downward force on the high side is to your advantage (unlike rolling the ball of your finger around the center) think tetter-totter !!
B: less pressure in smaller area so the switch has a better useable "life" (not to mention your fingers).
C: you "feel" for elevated high spot ......good for subdued lighting conditions (black on black is NOT ideal) !!!
My Own Proof:
This morning I spent 4 hrs changing voices/styles (went through all of them) and not once did I have a misinterpreted "double push" or "missed push" using MY method HIGH end of button. Then I reverted back to center push and 3 out of 10 pushes caused problems.
BTW either version of firmware caused buttons to act the same. This afternoon I went to music store and tried it on 2 other KB. (770,970) and same results. I don't know about the Tyros(s), as I've never even seen one in real life, but have been told about them.
I truly hope this works for you, so please try using the high spot of rubber buttons just once and see if it solves your problems.
best regards Terry
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Well Terry, when I read your post I was a little sceptical, but not being one to knock something unless I've tried it myself, that's exactly what I did, in fact I'd not even noticed that those black buttons around the display had a sloping top. Anyway I have to admit, that when I tried pressing the outside of the buttons ie. on the raised side I experienced no missed presses either, they certainly work better :)
When I reverted back to pressing in the centre of the button I started getting the odd missed press again, so a big thanks for that observation Terry and for passing it on, because users always tend to press the centre. It certainly appears that pressing in the middle as one naturally would aim to do produces more missed key presses than on the outside highest point of the top of the button AYS.
In reality of course if the button was well designed, it shouldn't matter where you press it, and one should not need to find workaround solutions to fix it, but there's no doubt with these buttons on my own 970 it does matter where you press it and pressing on the outside (highest point) as you suggest does indeed seem to help :)
Thank you Terry, for a most interesting and constructive post indeed, it's obvious some of these button panels do have issues, as not everyone has this problem. One should not need to press a button in exactly the right spot to make it work...lol yes of course it helps to have a workaround, but in well over 50yrs of playing keyboard instruments I've never needed to press a key on any instrument a certain way to make it work, they just worked.
Thanks again my friend, your post was most helpful indeed, and much appreciated. :)
Regards...Cameron
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Well, now, this is bizarre! I never noticed the higher outer edge of the buttons. They kinda blend in to the sloped bezel. Thanks for pointing that out, Terry!
Have to admit, pressing the outer end of the button sure seems to work better than a press in the center! I would conjecture that the higher outer edge allows more travel to the button press (even if it is off-center), thereby allowing the switch mechanism to operate more reliably.
I'm a little disappointed in Yamaha deploying a switch with such tight tolerances. It's a performance keyboard, for crying out loud. The musician should be able to finger-pop a button any which way and have a reasonable expectation that it will operate. Having to hit a button on one edge or the other to make sure it works is ridiculous in a $2K instrument. ****, my $350 Casio has better buttons than this!
I really like the sounds and other features, but pushbuttons? C'mon, Yamaha. Folks been makin' reliable pushbuttons for a looong time, now...
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I tried it on my S770. Everything is normal. I do not understand why it happens to some arranger.
Volkmin
;)
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Yamaha will replace keyboards that have the problem of missed key presses, some were fitted with a batch of iffy keyboard panels, they are aware of the problem.
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Hi Cameron
OH GOODY ! GOODY ! GOODY ! :) :) thanks for the info and informing Yamaha
A whole brand new S770, that's wonderful as mine is getting old now (5 weeks) ;)
I've already made room under my Christmas tree for the new one. I wonder if Yamaha will wrap it up in pretty paper and ribbons
in time for Xmas morning (ya..very wishful thinking !).
I guess I'd better register mine now with Yamaha Canada,as well as my dealer(they have serial #), so they can inform me when\how\where to exchange kb's.
regards; Terry
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Hi,
I eventually got around to checking my S770 and found that the fault exists, usually reverting back to main screen after the 6th button press. I have sent an email to Yamaha advising them. Should I advise my supplier?
Best wishes,
Brian
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Now that I've had my S970 set up for about a week, I'm noticing some erratic behaviour with those buttons along the screen. Seems they are overly sensitive to the touch. I've seen my board leave the arp screen and go back to the last screen... in my case the Panel Voice page where I had selected a particular Voice.
I think most of the time this happens is when I'm navigating fast. I agree with the comment above that the buttons should be flat and not tapered. Maybe Yamaha intended these buttons to work like a small rocker switch (IE; pressing them on the high side of the button. I don't know. ???
If I can establish a pattern, I'll report it to Yamaha. If they have a hardware problem (switches)... it could be like the S900 (screen going out) all over again.
Joe H
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Hi everyone,
I just received PSR s970 keyboard number 3 and still had the same fault, except when pressing the extreme right hand edge of the button which seem to work :-(
I wonder why these keyboards don't share the same type of buttons as the Tyros 5 (but black :-) because I tested one of those whilst out shopping and it worked perfectly.
Oh well, I suspect keyboard number 4 will be arriving sometime early next year.
Seasonal greetings,
Paul.
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Sorry to hear that Paul. :( I've been putting off sending mine back, though the dealer did offer to replace it without any issue at all. I haven't' done anything because it works most of the time, and AYS the buttons work more reliably when pressed on the outer raised edge.
I also sometimes need to press the right 1&2 button a second time if I failed to press firm enough the first time. I already tried pressing them on the sides just to see if that made a difference but sadly not, they work 9 times out of 10, but that one time is annoying.
What I can't understand is, they fitted better buttons to the S670, I know because I had one for a short while, although albeit they were a bit clicky, but at least they worked every single time and had a positive click to them, and I didn't need to press them in a certain way to make them work... only thing I disliked was the way you could hear the audible click when playing at low volume, but they worked.
I bought myself a 88key Casio Piano for Xmas, and before the wife insisted it gets wrapped up for Xmas day, I did give it a try out just to make sure it was working okay, and remember thinking how good the buttons felt compared to the one's on my 970 and that was half the price.
The 970 can produce some nice sounds and it looks great, but I really think Yamaha's penny pinching has gone a bit too far this time by fitting these pathetically poor black button switches.... I have a cheap £120 Midi/Controller keyboard here from Gear4Music and even the switch buttons on that work and feel much better than these cheap black rubbery things on my 970.
The fact some users like Eileen and others say they have no issues would suggest these boards are obviously made in different factories around the world, or should I say different factories in China. ;) I've seen a couple poor 970 Keybeds in dealers showrooms too where keys were not aligned and spaced evenly, yet my own keybed thankfully feels great and the alignment is smack on, which is why I find it hard to believe they all came out of the same factory. ::)
Indeed having bought a entry level E443 for my granddaughter earlier in the year, it's ridiculous that the buttons all worked fine on that E443 too yet they fit some that are much worse on the top model in their S range.... truly unbelievable. :(
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Hi Everyone
Just a little update about my button problem :'(
My "F" button is DEAD.....complete failure as in not working at all. I've wiggled it,pressed everywhere and let it sit overnight.I'm the one who pointed out the high side sloped button tops. I first noticed it last night after using it quite extensively,and thought in my haste,I'm missing the high side every now and then.
I have a work around, where I have to use the data wheel and Enter button to select voices or styles if they're positioned at the F button. However, I can't change my Function\Menu2\ Pack Installation button "F", and the wheel doesn't work in the function mode.
Just my luck...I had some silly little 100K file loaded (unimportant) and am stuck with it. :'( for now
I'm not even going to mention my MONO button LED is not working.......ha ha !!
I'm still happy with my kb and try different functions every day.....I'm Not going to allow a few defects to ruin the fun.
My dealer doesn't expect another shipment of S770's until middle of Jan and isn't even aware of the problem in Canada
question:
Does anyone know if Yamaha will inform OWNERS about this problem (like auto recall notices)
regards Terry
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Naw, if you don't complain to Yamaha directly, no action coming from them.
They do post OS upgrades on their site, but won't send you any notices.
If you have a problem, you need to let Yamaha know about it, just the way it is.
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Oh dear...this does not inspire confidence, :( as Bill states...yes it's a case of getting on to Yamaha or request your dealer change it which is likely easier as you probably stand a better chance of getting a new replacement, I found my dealer a little more sympathetic and positive than Yamaha, so your choice really.
One might now ask if pressing the high spot on these buttons is to be recommended doing ? as I can imagine Yamaha now saying....ah but your supposed to press the buttons in the middle...lol
Anyway...sorry to hear this latest bad news Terry, at least your being very positive about it, mines still working in a fashion, only thing that's stopped me returning it is the real possibility I may get one exactly the same with iffy button issue, and I need to use it at the moment. Obviously if it quits altogether as in your case then there is no option but to get it replaced.
Hope you get it sorted.
Cameron
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HI Cameron
Thank goodness I only use it for my entertainment purposes,as it helps to pass the time away in the Winter months. I will have
lots of time now to learn musical terms and play around with MIDI and DAW's.
I am of the same thinking as you, in that perhaps waiting a while will lessen the chance of getting a replacement with same
flaky buttons.Eventually all the new ones will be ok...they just have to filter down to the dealers.
It's probably a "blessing in disguise", as it will keep me from fooling around (as much) ::) and actually concentrate on my playing ;)
I don't think that pressing the high side of buttons will cause any great damage, put rather prolongs the time before complete failure occurs, as in my case. These buttons with flakiness, most likely have a limited "working life" (MTBF) mean time before failure it's called.
In Canada my registration card states 2 Yr warranty, so no rush on my part ;D
regards; Terry
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Hi,
I have now heard from Yamaha UK, who have advised me to contact them by phone with regard to having the keyboard collected and assesed by a Yamaha Authorised Service. I,m not to happy with this as it looks like I,m going to get a repair rather than a replacement , and not have a keyboard for some time. I notice that others who have the same problem have had replacements, or was this just in the USA?
I.ll ring them next week when normal working applies and see what they have to say.
Best wishes,
Brian
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Hi Brian,
I can understand Yamaha wanting to inspect a faulty keyboard for themselves so that they can report this directly back to Japan. They are very good at returning your keyboard as quickly as possible. So far I have not had any problems with my 950.
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I have the same problem !
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My dealer swapped mine out yesterday for a new replacement, and I'm very pleased to say all the buttons work perfectly, no need to press the black buttons on the outside to make them work, they just work every single time now regardless how I press them. Also, unless it's my imagination and the placebo kicking in they also feel a little more positive when you press them :)
I'm pretty certain the occasional issue of exiting back to main screen when the black buttons were pressed is likely due to contact bounce, where the switch was not making a good clean contact. I've had this happen on the odd PC mouse where towards the end of it's life it gives the effect of double clicking the button even though you only clicked it once...IOW switch bounce.
Excellent service by my dealer as I only phoned them on Monday, they arranged delivery of replacement and DPD took mine away with them, can't be bad. Just a shame the first one had one of the bad button panels. Personally, I could have managed by just pressing the raised part of the buttons, but figured it may pose a problem if I ever sell or pass it on later. I've used it a lot today and all is good, can't fault it.
Cameron
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Cameron,
Thanks for the update. Since I am already communicating with Yamaha, I passed this info along. So it appears to be a problem with a certain lot of keyboards that may have bad switches. Just when I think I'm not having the problem... it happens. It must be caused by overly sensitive switches or the PNL board they are mounted on that is sending the double-press message causing an EXIT of the current screen.
I'm considering taking mine in to my dealer to get looked at who is an authorized Yamaha Service Center as well.
Joe H
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So i must send my psr to service ?
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szwarc,
Only some of us are having problems. Pressing in the center of the buttons works best. But if you are having a lot of trouble with those set of buttons, it is probably a good idea to have it checked while under warranty . We can only speculate as to why Yamaha changed to a different type of button by the screen when the old style button worked just fine.
Joe H
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Cameron,
Thanks for the update. Since I am already communicating with Yamaha, I passed this info along. So it appears to be a problem with a certain lot of keyboards that may have bad switches. Just when I think I'm not having the problem... it happens. It must be caused by overly sensitive switches or the PNL board they are mounted on that is sending the double-press message causing an EXIT of the current screen.
I'm considering taking mine in to my dealer to get looked at who is an authorized Yamaha Service Center as well.
Joe H
Hi Joe, Cameron and all.
Please add Happy Jack's PSR-S770 to the queue.
Like some other folk, I'd assumed it was my doddery, slippery fingers at fault. But the A-J buttons (both sides) are now becoming beyond a slight nuisance and keep flicking me, unbidden, to the main screen. Might happen once in ten presses, or once in twenty, but sometimes I get a flurry of 'em at once.
Phoned Reidys today, (after their website's Returns Form Request told me that my order number was not recognized) :-( Did the usual stuff: disconnected all leads apart from the power, full factory reset, already done system upgrade to 1:04. Bought it new August 2015 UK.
Mr Reidy of Reidys (Yamaha main agent I think) says will collect it next week and forward it to Yamaha.
Will keep you informed.
cheers
Jack
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Jack,
When I take mine in... I will let the Tech know that this problem has been reported several times now and he should ask Yamaha if they have come up with a fix.
Please do the same. Sooner or later Yamaha will have enough reports to know what the issue is... hardware problem or software problem.
Joe H
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So i must send my psr to service ?
I don't know your location, but IME the dealer you bought it from will likely prove more rewarding, as the model is pretty new they should replace it, then they will get your returned keyboard replaced by Yamaha. Obviously the longer one leaves it the less chance they will replace it. If the item is fairly new many UK dealers will replace like for like without any cost to the customer.
My own dealer has a good warranty on keyboards, and arrange collection at their cost, though after a set time I cannot see them replacing for a new one, so better to get it sorted early rather than later. Otherwise one will need to contact Yamaha and send it to them for repair, but you will have to pay postage costs, and you will likely be without your keyboard for a while, hence why I suggested your dealer should be your first option and see what they have to say, as the legal obligation (in the UK anyway) is with the dealer that sold it to you.
As Joe suggests, in view of the fact that not ALL the 970 and 770 models are affected does indicate they fitted some with inferior switch panels. BTW The switches on the S670 are totally different and are not affected, and in fact actually work very well.
Happyjack:
Good to see you posting again, I hope you have not been unwell my friend. Not good hearing yours may have this problem too. :(
Cameron
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Jack,
When I take mine in... I will let the Tech know that this problem has been reported several times now and he should ask Yamaha if they have come up with a fix.
Please do the same. Sooner or later Yamaha will have enough reports to know what the issue is... hardware problem or software problem.
Joe H
That's good, Joe, thanks. When I fully described the fault to Mr Reidy of Reidys, he said this is the first case he knows of. I postponed acting on this before now until it became progressively more pronounced.
Am happy with this PSR-S770, but I wouldn't want to feel that I'm stuck with a 'faulty' keyboard, regards selling or part-exchanging later on.
cheers for your help
Jack
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(brevity snip): ....better to get it sorted early rather than later. Otherwise one will need to contact Yamaha and send it to them for repair, but you will have to pay postage costs, and you will likely be without your keyboard for a while, hence why I suggested your dealer should be your first option and see what they have to say, as the legal obligation (in the UK anyway) is with the dealer that sold it to you.
Good advice, Cameron. So easy to let these little jobs slide into the pending tray. Thankfully Reidys uses DPD courier which saves a lot of hassle. Didn't fancy camping out by the front door all week. :-)
Happyjack:
Good to see you posting again, I hope you have not been unwell my friend. Not good hearing yours has this problem too.
Aye, we're back in the Land of the Living. Although one's extended warranty might be another story. :-)
happy regards
Jack
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So i will be call to the shop were i buy my yamaha on monday.
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So i will be call to the shop were i buy my yamaha on monday.
Yes, that is a good move. 'A stitch in time, saves nine', as the old saying goes.
PS: Many thanks to the original poster, Paul, (Chronos1976) for highlighting this issue.
best regards
Jack
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[quote author=Happy Jack link=topic=32258.msg243668
Aye, we're back in the Land of the Living. Although one's extended warranty might be another story. :-)
happy regards
Jack
[/quote]
Good to see you back anyway Jack, I sincerely hope your personal extended warranty won't expire for many years yet my friend. :)
My consultant recently renewed mine for another 6 months...fingers xxx for both of us. ;)
Best wishes...Cameron
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Hi,
I followed all instructions as described on page 1 ( Thank You ! ) and nothing seems to be wrong. :)
Best wishes, Jeff
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Hi all here,
I'm repacking my PSR-S770 return, ready for courier collection. Presumably one would include all the bits: manual, power supply, music stand? ...
cheers
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Yes you should pack everything that came with the keyboard.
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Yes you should pack everything that came with the keyboard.
Cheers, Eileen, much appreciated.
Empty keyboard trolley looks weird; withdrawal symptoms already kicking in.
Thankfully, still got my looper and sampler to compensate. :-)
happy regards
Jack
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Is it a software bug or a " mechanical " problem or both ?
Hopefully all " victims " will be helped soon.
Nothing worse than being without keyboard arranger. :-[
Wish you all good luck !
Keep my fingers crossed ...
Jeff
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Is it a software bug or a " mechanical " problem or both ?
Hopefully all " victims " will be helped soon.
Nothing worse than being without keyboard arranger. :-[
Wish you all good luck !
Keep my fingers crossed ...
Jeff
Thanks for your good wishes, Jeff. Unsure what the cause is of this keyboard anomaly at the moment, but maybe Yamaha tech department will elucidate anon.
Needless to say, I refitted the two original Live Control knobs (had installed two yellow 'short fatty' ones). Must say the feel of the 'short fatty' ones in general use, are much more pleasurable, in contrast.
The only minor casualty (so far) was in my prizing away the extension USB hub (secured to the side of the PSR with double sided tape). Split the hub's casing. Boo-hoo, woe is me! :) Also, found that the use of a hair-dryer came in handy to quickly remove multiple traces of double-side tape residue.
UPDATE: Reidys' courier picking it up tomorrow (Tuesday). :-) And says only to repack the PSR-S770 keyboard and the power supply and lead, but NOT the music stand or the manual. Anyone else in the same situation might better check with their dealer regards same.
Now, the next hurdle is trying to make sense of these polystyrene end packing bits. :-)
2ND UPDATE: Young gent from Reidys couldn't offer any tips on making sense of repacking with the polystyrene bits, other than confirming it is 'difficult'. Never mind, found an PSR-S970 Unboxing vid' on YouTube, which shone a light from afar. 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H9LsEn1o40
Okay, all good to go (back) :-)
Jack
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Hopefully Jack they don't have it too long, and they get it sorted and returned to you quite quickly... fingers xxx. That video was a good idea, if my memory serves me right, there is a specific cut-out in the packing to hold the power supply and lead, which is locked in place once the box is sealed up. The 670 I bought last year before my 970, came with the power supply floating around loose inside the box, which likely caused the nasty chip on the front of the board, and indeed was one of the reasons it was returned. If that 670 was new, my name's mickey mouse...lol
Jeff:
I'm pretty certain it's a hardware issue. caused by flaky membrane switch panels, if it had been a firmware issue, we would ALL be suffering from the problem, and the way it occasionally exits back to the main screen is typical of switch bounce. Where even though you only press once, the contact is not always clean and positive so it sometimes thinks you pressed it twice, and other times it doesn't recognise the press at all so you need to press it again.
Cameron
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I think it's a hardware (switch) problem myself. I went through auditioning several hundred of the Voices over the weekend. I pressed on the inside edge toward the screen and only experienced the problem a few times. Pressing on the high side of the switch causes the screen to EXIT far more often. I think Yamaha made a mistake going to the contoured buttons. They should have stayed with the flat button design. I only had this happen on rare occasions on my S910.
Joe H
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CAMERON:
Hi, cheers for the reminder about packing the PSU in its' proper slot in the polystyrene packing. All boxed now and awaiting collection, thanks. :-)
JOE:
Hey, mine is the *reverse* of the fault you describe. Pressing the A-J buttons at the centre, or pressing the 'thin' edge (next to the screen) causes the fault; whereas when pressing the 'high' point it works okay.
Sure, pressing only the high point of the button would be a 'workaround' of sorts, but a tiresome one: aiming to hit something the size of a match head time after time. Not good.
happy regards
Jack
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Hi all,
My s970 appears having this issue when I bought it in August 2015. Because this is my first keyboard (ever), I thought it was designed that way, until I saw this thread.
Three days ago, I updated the firmware to 1.04 and retested the buttons. The problem still resists.
I need your advice:
- Should I bring it back to the dealer? I bought the s970 from Guitar Center in USA.
- Should I report directly to Yamaha?
- Or doing both?
Many thanks,
Ted
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Hi all,
My s970 appears having this issue when I bought it in August 2015. Because this is my first keyboard (ever), I thought it was designed that way, until I saw this thread.
Three days ago, I updated the firmware to 1.04 and retested the buttons. The problem still resists.
I need your advice:
- Should I bring it back to the dealer? I bought the s970 from Guitar Center in USA.
- Should I report directly to Yamaha?
- Or doing both?
Many thanks,
Ted
Hi Ted,
Sorry to hear that you are experiencing the same issue with your S970.
Personally, I decided to report my defective PSR-770 keyboard to the dealer who sold it to me. I asked that he do something to correct the fault, if you please.
Whether getting my keyboard fixed via repair or replacement is immaterial to me, since the keyboard was only purchased in August, so I still regard it as a new instrument with full warranty still running.
I would have preferred to give a written account of my keyboard's fault to the dealer, but for some reason, when I tried the dealer's website it told me that my original order number was not recognized! I have since reported that website anomaly to the dealer. ;-)
So I reported the fault to the dealer via telephone, making notes, times, names, etc, and giving exact description of the fault. I also asked my dealer if he was aware of any other similar problems. In my case, my dealer said that this was the first time he had heard of such a problem with the PSR-S770 / S970 A-J buttons.
Can't give a definitive answer to your original question, Ted, but my personal decision was to ask for assistance from my dealer.
best regards
Jack
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It's very likely the switches will be of the membrane type, if they had been the bubble type (1st Pic) one would detect a slight click when pressed and will likely have a audible click too when pressed, this bubble type is what Yamaha fitted to the S670 would be my guess, and tends to be used where the buttons are made of plastic, which the 670 buttons are.
As shown in the 1st pic, it's just a springy metal disc which pops in to make a contact when pressed in the centre, and pops out again when released, they work well, but the audible click can be quite noticeable as I found when I had my 670.
However, the one used most often these days because it's cheaper and requires less soldering, is the membrane rubber sheet type, (2nd Pic) this is where the switch contact panel is a specially etched printed circuit board, where an arrangement of specially shaped tracks are in close proximity, and the button itself is made of rubber, (usually as a rubber membrane sheet of them), designed so that when pressed in, it simply shorts out the track and returns on it's own accord because of it's moulded rubber shape. These type of switches are normally silent in operation.
The bottom of the rubber which comes into contact with the printed circuit board when pressed has a coating of a special electrically conductive material, (likely containing carbon/silver or similar) which simply shorts out the track on the PCB.... a very simple arrangement that normally works well and is cheap to produce. This is the type that is likely used on the 770/970 models, the PCB shown on the second pic will have lots of these pcb switch patterns to match the required number of buttons.
So why are they not working properly ? TBH I wish I knew.... The buttons are quite loose and floppy, so depending where/how it's pressed in may result in it not making a good contact with the PCB. It's also possible that the electrically conductive material used on the bottom of the rubber button to make the contact is inferior. Another possibility is that the PCB alignment with the rubber button membrane sheet is not as accurate as it might need to be, so that when the button is pressed in, it's NOT directly over the PCB contact area, so would give the symptoms we are getting, but it can be any of those issues, not cleaning the switch panel PCB properly before fitting would give similar issues too. :o
Cameron
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Ted,
When I contacted Yamaha Support, they directed me to take it to my local dealer / authorized Yamaha Service Center, but I think it's good for Yamaha to get the message every way possible and as many times as possible. I'm sure they are not going to be happy about this. A hardware problem is more costly than a firmware update.
Joe H
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I have a different problem...I reset my whole keyboard to try to fix this and for now, it's ok:
I needed to change my 'Chord fingerings' to Fingered on Bass. So I go to the appropriate screen in 'FUNCTION'...
The selection toggle was there on the bottom left of the screen...but the up/down rubber buttons below it didn't do a thing...(other items on the right side of that screen could be changed)...After I reset the whole keyboard...they are working again...but I think there is a bug in the software somewhere...
I recall years ago (14!!), the same thing happened with dead 'left/right' screen keys on my PSR-2000...but I would not have expected this sort of problem with a new instrument like the PSR-S770...
As noted...all is working again...but it is rather disconcerting...
I do not like the rubber keys that the PSR-S770 and my PSR-S900 have. An older arranger I have (the PSR-3000) has 'solid' keys (like the TYROS) and I like them way better...
James
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Good day, yammylovers,
I see that with excess of three thousand views of this topic, there are only 7 Likes to date!
To the lucky majority of those viewers, (whose keyboards are presumably fault-free), peace and love and lots of continued fun.
My thanks also to the psrtutorial site.
happy regards
Jack
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Jack,
That's just the way it is. Lots of readers, not so many comments. When people post files for download, sometimes they get snatched up like candy... but not many thank you's compared to the number of downloads.
It's OK. Most people appreciate what's being said here. Obvously there are some boards with a button problem. Maybe it's not that many... that would be good news for Yamaha.
Joe H
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Jack,
That's just the way it is. Lots of readers, not so many comments. When people post files for download, sometimes they get snatched up like candy... but not many thank you's compared to the number of downloads.
It's OK. Most people appreciate what's being said here. Obvously there are some boards with a button problem. Maybe it's not that many... that would be good news for Yamaha.
Joe H
Well said, Joe, here's hoping it is just a few 'rogue' ones
My dealer tells me that mid-January is a busy time regards factory warranty repairs. Instruments purchased in the Christmas period have now been played and explored enough to reveal any inherent problems.
In other words, be prepared for a warranty work backlog.
Could be that the A-J button issue is maybe comparable to noisy tappets rather than a big end knock. Perhaps some might tolerate a nuisance level fault rather than the trouble of sending the keyboard back for warranty work?
good regards
Jack
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Just a quick update regarding the replacement I received last week, and it's not exactly 100% good news unfortunately.
Having played it quite a lot since receiving it, I have since found that just occasionally it will miss the odd button press, and I have to press it again, it's only happened about 4 or 5 times, and it's jumped back to the main screen 3 times so far, but certainly nowhere so often as it did on my first 970, so if it stays like this I shall be reasonably happy. I certainly won't be requesting another change or fix, but TBH I'm suspecting quite a few have flaky button switches, but some much more noticeable than others, as my original 970 was like it from day-1 and it occurred quite often. When it only does it infrequently as it currently is, it's much more tolerable and I can live with it.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but just to let you know. :(
-
Just a quick update regarding the replacement I received last week, and it's not exactly 100% good news unfortunately.
Having played it quite a lot since receiving it, I have since found that just occasionally it will miss the odd button press, and I have to press it again, it's only happened about 4 or 5 times, and it's jumped back to the main screen 3 times so far, but certainly nowhere so often as it did on my first 970, so if it stays like this I shall be reasonably happy. I certainly won't be requesting another change or fix, but TBH I'm suspecting quite a few have flaky button switches, but some much more noticeable than others, as my original 970 was like it from day-1 and it occurred quite often. When it only does it infrequently as it currently is, it's much more tolerable and I can live with it.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but just to let you know. :(
Howdy, Cameron and all A-J Buttoneers.
Sorry to hear that, sir; bad show, especially that your replacement keyboard is now displaying a similar fault after such a short time.
Hope the fault remains within the zone of tolerance. But please, leave any hammers outside of your Man Cave for the time being, eh? :)
happy regards
Jack
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Cameron,
I tried the system reset thing. This seems to reduce the erratic button behavior, but doesn't eliminate it. I wonder if there is a problem with the installer program when doing a firmware update. Shouldn't have to do a system reset after updating firmware.
At least my problem is on the radar screen of my dealer. The store manager is going to the winter NAMM so he is preoccupied for the moment. We plan to talk again when the dust settles. He called Yamaha trying to get a heads-up on this issue. No one at Yamaha seems to know about the problem. The tech support guy also seems to have abandoned me for the moment.
I'm not going to let it rest. Sooner or later I will get a response from Yamaha directly or through my dealer. Looks like a couple of weeks before I can take my board in for the diagnostic test. I want the repair guy to be communicating with Yamaha repair in California if necessary to figure out what the problem is... IE; hardware or firmware. I need the store manager's support for that to happen.
Stay tuned... ???
Joe H
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Hello everyone! This is my first post and, I'm having the same issue as most of you. First of all I think the PSR 970 is a fantastic keyboard! If it wasn't for the A,C,and D keys which seem to be the issue on my 1 week old 970. After reading this topic I realized that I have the same issue. I went to Guitar Center were I purchase the keyboard and they were ready to order a new one ( Excellent Store ) for me. I asked them instead to call Yamaha and find out what was the story regarding this erratic behavior. The Yamaha tech said they would call me back within 24hrs. to trouble shoot the problem. When I told them about the posting here he said that yes there are a some complaints on the site but no one is reporting it. This is why I'm asking who is correct? Is Yamaha being truthful. I know after putting down my money I want a system that works not a work around. I'll let you know what the testing process is when we finish.
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Hello everyone! This is my first post and, I'm having the same issue as most of you. First of all I think the PSR 970 is a fantastic keyboard! If it wasn't for the A,C,and D keys which seem to be the issue on my 1 week old 970. After reading this topic I realized that I have the same issue. I went to Guitar Center were I purchase the keyboard and they were ready to order a new one ( Excellent Store ) for me. I asked them instead to call Yamaha and find out what was the story regarding this erratic behavior. The Yamaha tech said they would call me back within 24hrs. to trouble shoot the problem. When I told them about the posting here he said that yes there are a some complaints on the site but no one is reporting it. This is why I'm asking who is correct? Is Yamaha being truthful. I know after putting down my money I want a system that works not a work around. I'll let you know what the testing process is when we finish.
Hi there, Nick,
Welcome to the forum!
Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts here on psrtutorial.
Yes I see your point. While waiting for my faulty PSR-S770 buttons to be fixed, I think I will now take the added precaution of writing (not phoning) Yamaha UK to make sure they are informed of this specific problem.
Hopefully my own faulty PSR-S770 (bought August 2015) will be soon restored to a fully functional instrument.
happy regards
Jack
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Dear All,
After i read with continuous replies, i am bit worried about my new PSR S770. i was bought this last Saturday, i really happy that keyboard i got. But reading from @chronos and @Joe replies, these malfunction happened many users. so that i made quick test, alas me too have same behavior. is that the only way we must do return claim? my country is india, i am more worried about whether dealer can exchange it or not. i too worried, if i go for service, it may take long time. its due to indian service center will not act on deadlines. is that anyway to do claim like, Seagate warranty procedure? you can apply through internet and file the claim. Then we can gave the corresponding service unit and after a short while we can get the warrantied device.
Thanks
in deep sad!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( :-[ :-[ :-[
Regards
Androidgalaxyman
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Androidgalaxyman,
Before you do anything else. Try doing a System Reset. With the power turned OFF, press and hold the right-most white key, then power on your keyboard holding down that key. You will see a message saying System Initializing.
See if this stops the button problem. I have had very little of the button issues once I did a System Reset. Let us know if this works. If it does this would be an important piece of information. I encourage others who is having this problem to try it as well. Yamaha needs to fix the problem... if we can identify a specific pattern of behavior it will help to get it corrected.
Joe H
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Hello Joe!
Thank you for the info!
I followed your recommendation and, it seems to have settled the issue for the minute. I pressed the buttons repeatedly with only one miss but it could have been my fault. This reset seem to have done the trick for now. Time will tell if it returns. Very odd problem. Maybe it's a firmware issue don't know but when or, if I get a call back from Yamaha I will definitely mention this process.
Hopefully this may help others on this posting.
Thanks again
Back to Music....
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Nick,
Thank you for your report. I hope others will give it a try. I'm talking with someone else who tried the reset and got those same results. He needs to do a firmware update from v1.03 to v1.04. I asked him to let me know if the button problem starts again after the firmware update. If so I suggested he do the System Reset again and see what happens.
Joe H
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This whole thing reminds me of my first computer, a TRS-80. (Please don't laugh... :)
The keyboard suffered greatly from "bouncy" keys -- pressing a key might result in four or five of the characters appearing on the screen. The cause was a sub-millisecond bouncing of the springy key contacts when a key was pressed. As slow as it was, the computer could read the keyboard several times over while the contacts were still bouncing, resulting in multiple undesirable inputs.
The fix was to load a small utility program (called "KBFIX" if I recall correctly) that slowed reading of the keyboard just enough to allow the bouncing to settle before the next read while still reading it fast enough to keep up with a good typist. So, we have a hardware problem fixed by software.
All of which leads one to believe that even though the S970 (or at least some of them) apparently have flaky push buttons, a simple firmware update might be sufficient to fix the problem. Could it already be in v1.04? I doubt it, as Yamaha doesn't yet appear to know about (or at least acknowledge) the problem. But it does leave hope that a future firmware update might solve the problem, which would be much better than having to send the silly keyboard off for a couple month's worth of factory repairs.
Just my $0.02...
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Bill H,
V1.03 and v1.04 exhibit the button problem. It appears at this point, that it might be a installer program glitch (in my opinion), but I don't know if that is even possible. I'm not a programmer, so the question is why would you need to do a System Reset after installing a firmware update? ??? ??? ???
It may NOT be a hardware problem since the reset appears to correct the problem... (short term anyway). We need more reports.
From where I stand, it looks like Yamaha has not acknowledged there IS a problem... for the moment. I guess the burden is on us to convince the right folks at Yamaha that there IS a problem.
Joe H
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Bill H,
V1.03 and v1.04 exhibit the button problem. It appears at this point, that it might be a installer program glitch (in my opinion), but I don't know if that is even possible. I'm not a programmer, so the question is why would you need to do a System Reset after installing a firmware update? ??? ??? ???
It may NOT be a hardware problem since the reset appears to correct the problem... (short term anyway). We need more reports.
From where I stand, it looks like Yamaha has not acknowledged there IS a problem... for the moment. I guess the burden is on us to convince the right folks at Yamaha that there IS a problem.
Joe H
Dear Joe
Sure . i will try it out and report to you. May be time delay happens when respond back to you. my firmware is v.1.03. The one more thing i understand, if we press elevated part, there will be a problem of exit happens. but if would be the case left hand side button, the depression found on right side. The same as for Right hand side button the depression is on left side. if we press depressed areas, the problem some what less. Though i suspect, it could be a problem in hardware part. but i am also convinced about your answers , there will be a chance on firmware.
Thanks
Regards
androidgalaxyman
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Hi, androidgalaxyman,
Well done for sticking with it and good luck. :)
Jack
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Bill H,
V1.03 and v1.04 exhibit the button problem. It appears at this point, that it might be a installer program glitch (in my opinion), but I don't know if that is even possible. I'm not a programmer, so the question is why would you need to do a System Reset after installing a firmware update? ??? ??? ???
It may NOT be a hardware problem since the reset appears to correct the problem... (short term anyway). We need more reports.
From where I stand, it looks like Yamaha has not acknowledged there IS a problem... for the moment. I guess the burden is on us to convince the right folks at Yamaha that there IS a problem.
Joe H
Greetings, Joe H and all,
I'm waiting for my repaired keyboard to be returned; optimistic that it is on the way. Note that I had already installed the Firmware 1:04 upgrade, so that didn't fix the problem.
EDIT: Also tried several, full System Resets to no avail. (END OF EDIT)
As yet, haven't had any 'hard' acknowledgement of this issue, either from my dealer or from Yamaha. Spoken words down a phone line, no problem, but asking for a written response is another matter. Will keep trying.
* My dealer's website was unable to recognize my details when I typed in details of my faulty keyboard.
*My local Yamaha website (Milton Keynes, UK), didn't recognize the PSR-S770, hence had to use phone.
*My recent email to my dealer (with digital signature) has been responded to, but in a format I couldn't read: "winmail.dat" 784bytes. Have asked my dealer to resend their email in a format I can read. :-)
From my recent chat with the Yamaha tech' guy, it was clear that he knew of this issue of the problem buttons. However, you'll have to take my word for that. (hearsay evidence)?
Very much looking forward to the return of my fixed keyboard. :)
Happy regards to all Buttoneers!
(please see my posted image)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Dear All,
is that have any concrete list of updates or fix list between v.1.0.3. and V.1.0.4 from yamaha side. like something release notes we can see in the internet?
Thanks
Regards
androidgalaxyman
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androidgalaxyman,
Did you try a System Reset? This is important to know.
Here's the info you are looking for.
http://download.yamaha.com/search/detail/?site=usa.yamaha.com&language=en&category_id1=16277&category_id2=16535&product_id=2059270&asset_file_language=EN&asset_id=65128 (http://download.yamaha.com/search/detail/?site=usa.yamaha.com&language=en&category_id1=16277&category_id2=16535&product_id=2059270&asset_file_language=EN&asset_id=65128)
Joe H
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I'll give my own 970 a complete reset today Joe, a bit sceptical, but will give it a try just in case it does help. ;) nothing to lose. :)
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I'll give my own 970 a complete reset today Joe, a bit sceptical, but will give it a try just in case it does help. ;) nothing to lose. :)
Good day, Cameron and all,
Doing System resets didn't work for me - I did several to no avail. But I sincerely hope you're lucky.
Just hoping my 'repaired' keyboard will be totally good when it comes.
I reject that I am supposed to grin and bear it, pretend it's just a minor blip, ignore it.
No, I reject that. I paid for a brand new keyboard, not to be saddled with a faulty one.
Imagine trying to sell it: For sale, mint condition, indoor use only, kept under a bell jar in a smoke-free, pet-free home. What?, oh, the sticky A-J buttons? Nah, that's normal for this model, just ask around. What? You don't want it? Suit yourself, that'll be two quid for the tea and biscuits then.
Just blowing off steam, matey, better let out then holding it in, eh? :-)
happy regards
Jack
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LOL... ;D
I fully agree with you Jack, it will likely cause financial loss when it comes to sell it, and possible come back from any potential buyer, there's no doubt about that. I personally think they are just crapply designed switch panels, and no amount of resetting will make it better.
However, I haven't tried a full hard factory reset yet, so nothing to lose, at least I can then say I tried it...lol
TBH I'm looking forwards to yours coming back 100% fixed, and if it works okay, I may be tempted to send this one back too, though I doubt they will swap it again, but at least if I know they are actually doing some genuine sort of fix on them instead of just a quick check and a reset and then shipping it back saying they couldn't find anything wrong, I'll likely get mine updated too in due course as it's done it twice today. :-( and I have a few other boards plus my Casio 88 piano I recently bought which I can use while it's away. I just want to know for sure Yamaha UK will actually do something before I send it in for repair. I may ring my dealer though just to give them the bad news, so they are aware in case I do send it for repair later.
So I look forward to hearing what they did/have done with your's Jack and sincerely hope it gets truly fixed, as I recall the OP saying he had already returned 2, and they still hadn't given him one that worked 100% properly. :( :(
Take care.
Best wishes....Cameron
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Jack,
Yes... please give us a full report on what they didi to "fix" your keyboard buttons. This is important for the rest of us to know.
Joe H
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Cameron,
I'm amazed at the improvement since I did the reset, but the problem is not 100% resolved. Yamaha needs to identify the true cause. Either buttons, switches, faulty daughter board, or firmware code... which one is it? ???
Joe H
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Cameron, Joe H, and all StickyButtoniers,
Cheers for supportive comments, guys.
My KB not done yet but will be done anon. Young gent (***) from shop phoned Yamaha to check, citing the backlog, due to post-Christmas warranty work.
That's fine, everybody's cool. 8) But also took the opportunity to remind (***) of my written request for full details of any work done. That is, hopefully something other than resetting it, smacking it with a kipper and sending it back. ;)
As ever, my thanks to this best of best keyboard forums: psrtutorial. :-* :-* :-*
happy regards
Jack
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Cameron,
I'm amazed at the improvement since I did the reset, but the problem is not 100% resolved. Yamaha needs to identify the true cause. Either buttons, switches, faulty daughter board, or firmware code... which one is it? ???
Joe H
Hi Joe, well I tried a full factory cold reset this afternoon, and I'd love to be able to say it made a difference, but on trying it, within a couple dozen presses it had twice popped back to the main screen. The buttons on this board like my first seems to work better if pressing the high spot, which Terry stated earlier. I'm pretty much convinced it's definitely a hardware issue. I can press them 2 or 3 dozen times and it seems to work fine, then just as I'm beginning to think it's much better it will go back to the main screen, and just occasionally it still misses the odd key press.
I shall wait and see how Jack gets on when he gets his board returned, and we'll have a better idea what Yamaha have done/doing, as I see little point sending it off until I know they have a proper fix. I will however send Yamaha UK a email, just to keep them in the picture.
I certainly think there may be quite a few boards affected, but many owners haven't realised it yet, and probably put it down to user error, plus the fact no-one really wants to send away their new board, thinking it only does it occasionally so I can tolerate it, and consider it quite a minor annoyance.
EDIT: Thinking about it Joe, the double switch bounce which I'm convinced is the problem causing the jump back to main screen because it interprets it as 2 presses can be fixed in the firmware, by adding a slight delay loop before it checks for the next key press, similar to the key press delay you set on PC keyboards before the auto key repeat kicks in.
IOW after reading one key press it waits X number of micro seconds before polling for the next key press, if they introduced this slight delay it might help to resolve that issue, as you would have lifted your finger in time, but of course if they have no such delay and its continually polling those keys then yes a double contact even though the user has only pressed it once will result in two presses being recorded if the contact is not a clean single contact every time.
I've had this happen a couple of times with my PC mice, where after a couple of years of heavy daily use the PC occasionally thinks I've clicked the button twice even though I definitely only clicked the mouse button once, replacing the mouse with a new one has always fixed it, even though the switches on a mouse are proper miniature micro switches as they take a lot of hammering over time, and that's the reason I've had to replace the last 2 mice for that same reason. The switches on these Yamaha boards are more akin to the simple push button switches you tend to find on TV remote controls, where a conductive pad simply shorts out a pcb track when pressed, it would simply be impractical (cost wise) to have micro switches on something requiring this many button switches.
I was TV/Video engineer for many years before going into the design of electronic cpu boards mainly for the fruit machine industry though I also worked for Hewlett Packard at Bristol with their R&D design team for some years designing control boards for Laser/Injet printers etc.
So I'm fairly sure Yamaha could resolve the jump back to the main screen issue quite easily in firmware, just by adding a slight delay after it's detected the first press. Obviously it won't cure the odd missed key press where it's not detected the key press, but if they could fix that jumping back to the main screen it would be good. I'll give them a ring tomorrow and have a chat...see what they have to say.
Cameron
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Cameron,
We are definitely on the same page on this issue. We are all waiting for that report from Jack (Yamaha Repair). It will tell us a lot (I hope) what the solution is. The fact that some boards do not have the problem points to hardware, but you may be right that a firmware update could fix the problem.
Jack,
You are so right. We are lucky that Joe Waters chose to start this Forum and works hard to maintain it (and pay for it)
Thanks again Joe Waters.
Joe H
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On the time where I have had to press twice it was because I had not pressed it properly. I had hit the side of the button. At no time has my screen changed though and gone to home page.
I am just reading all these comments but I haven't yet noticed this. I'm gonna try to play tonite see if that happens on mine. I really havent had much time to play since I got it in December2015. I have been reading the manual and watching videos to get better use of this amazing Kb.
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Hello everyone..
As I, stated in my last posting when I talk to the tech's I'd get back to you all. Well I received the call late last night from CA. Yamaha and, once again they stated no one is calling in to report it and, that they are not aware of this problem "?" The Yamaha tech's indicated that until this is reported by more people and see this issue being reported from the repair centers they cannot recommend a fix to over sea's. I told him after a system reset it improved but still wasn't perfect. At this point they have no solution to offer. They need more information. I don't know how many of you have reported this problem to Yamaha all I could recommend to them was read these postings on the forum.
I hope Jack that your KB returns fixed and a written solution you can share with us all. This will give us all a leg to stand on when reporting the problem.
Everyone be well !
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Nick,
Thank you very much for your update. I will email the tech support guy I'm communicating with and ask how I can talk to him on the phone. Your report is as expected. That's why I got my Yamaha dealer / service center on-board. NAMM has put my efforts with the Manager of the store on hold for a couple of weeks.
So... an email to Tech Support tomorrow requesting he CALL me for a verbal conversation on the issue. :P
Joe H
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androidgalaxyman,
Did you try a System Reset? This is important to know.
Here's the info you are looking for.
http://download.yamaha.com/search/detail/?site=usa.yamaha.com&language=en&category_id1=16277&category_id2=16535&product_id=2059270&asset_file_language=EN&asset_id=65128 (http://download.yamaha.com/search/detail/?site=usa.yamaha.com&language=en&category_id1=16277&category_id2=16535&product_id=2059270&asset_file_language=EN&asset_id=65128)
Joe H
Dear Joe and other buttoners,
I am very surpirsed yesterday. i was did quick test on my keyboard.
Test case : 1 (No rest)
just i orderly or unorderly pressed the depressed part of buttons . i gave gave 30 push on left and right
Result : Passed
Test case : 2 (after reset, not complete only system)
no change in execution.
Result : Passed. No obvious earlier problem
Today i am planning do aggressive test .. to more care about wouldn't be hurt the button.. ;) .My conclusion for the time being merely hardware part rather than firmware. Because when we compare with firmware release notes , there was a only fix sent in to that version . multi pad buttons issue.
People may do mistake on press. as well one more self explanatory issue manufactures did the wrong design of button pads.
This week end will be a "regresson testing of button " . i will bring with my results
Thanks Joe , Happy , Textbook, Bill and community
Regards
androidgalaxyman
in search of truth behind the PSR S770 :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
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Here in the UK I have not seen any reports of buttons not working properly. I run my own forum here and have not had one post saying that members are having trouble with buttons at all.
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Here in the UK I have not seen any reports of buttons not working properly. I run my own forum here and have not had one post saying that members are having trouble with buttons at all.
... They're probably too terrified to say otherwise! :) :)
Hi there, Eileen,
I'm 'here in the UK' and my lovely PSR-S770 is still with the menders!
The sticky buttons issue became so much of a nuisance to me that I was compelled to return it to the shop under warranty. I made several attempts to rectify the fault, which continued.
My financial circumstances are always 'fluid' at best :-[, a bit shaky at the moment. I need to know that my treasured PSR-S770 keyboard is fully working with no 'issues'. A faulty keyboard, regardless of its mint condition, would be hard - if not impossible - to sell for a reasonable sum.
Thank-you, Eileen, I think we both have high regard for the Yamaha brand, which is why we are playing our Yamaha keyboards.
But to ignore concerns by some few UK Yamaha PSR-S770 / 970 owners would be overly dismissive, don't you think?
happy regards,
Jack
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Here in the UK I have not seen any reports of buttons not working properly. I run my own forum here and have not had one post saying that members are having trouble with buttons at all.
Well Eileen this thread has been running almost 2 months, and I made 2 observational comments about this issue in posts in October, though the posts were not specific to this issue. In fact like others I thought it was down to user error. Quite a few of us ARE in the UK, and Herefordshire where I live was still in the UK the last time I checked. ;)
I'm on my second 970, and sadly this one does the same but nowhere as frequent as the first board, I tend to set up lots of banks of registrations like many others, with all my favourite voice mixes etc.etc. So once set I don't need to use the A-E and F-J keys too frequently. It becomes noticeable when you are using it a lot, which sometimes we have to. Often I can press buttons as many as a dozen times or more and it's fine, then it will either not record the press and I need to press it a second time, or the most annoying issue where it detects 2 presses, when I've only pressed it once, and it returns back to the main screen, so it means you have to press a button again to get back to the voice selection screen as clearly explained in this thread many times.
I'm pleased that your 970 works 100% perfectly Eileen, and TBH I thought this second one did too when I received it, but while going through the voices a few days later it became apparent it too suffered the same issue albeit to a lesser extent.
I'm 99% certain its caused by a batch of flaky button switch panels, so we will have to see what Yamaha do about it.
It's NOT a catastrophic fault, and many users will likely not bother, thinking it's the way they press the buttons, but there's no doubt it can be annoying if one spends some time trying different voice combinations which of course we do occasionally.
So just because some do not have the problem does not mean it does not exist, because it certainly does. In fact recently while shopping in Worcester with my wife, I popped into a music dealer there to check out a couple of pianos, he has both the 770 and 970 models on display now, and on checking the 970 they had, I found it too exhibited the same issue when pressing those control buttons, and when I pointed it out to the sales guy, he said...do you know I've never noticed that before I thought it was the way I pressed the button, he just shrugged it off as no big deal, though he did comment that he thought the buttons didn't feel good.
Why Yamaha says no-one's reported it is utter rubbish, as I've emailed them twice and spoken to them, my own dealer also said they would have a word with them about it, as they would have returned my 1st board to Yamaha UK for repair, plus don't forget the OP who started this thread said Yamaha had changed his twice for the problem, so they obviously know. Maybe they are not sharing information between themselves, I know Yamaha UK were not happy the OP started this thread which I suppose is understandable.
Hopefully, Yamaha will find a solution, but I can assure you and Yamaha, there are boards out there that do have this flaky control buttons issue. I might be old, but I'm not ready for the loony bin yet...lol I've been pressing keyboard buttons for more years than I care to remember and none have ever given me a problem before, the other 4 boards I have here all work great. AIS lets hope Yamaha finds a solution/fix.
Best wishes... Cameron
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Thank you Cameron. You are spot on. :)
Joe H
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I sent the Yamaha Tech Support guy an email update on all of this and indicated I would do a follow-up once we hear more on the current "repair" and what the findings were.
There will be no letting up on this one until we get some straight answers from Yamaha.
;)
Joe H
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I do understand that some are having problems and my comments are not meant to take away from this but I can only speak for myself and say that after much button pushing I have not had a problem.
My middle name is Button pusher as I tweak loads of styles create lots of registrations and Multi pads and so far everything is fine. Hope you all get sorted.
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Any programming error will be the next address followed by the Firmware Updater V1.05 and other updates to resolve them! Yamaha always took care of her the tools to have a more stable functionabilitate!
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Dear yamaha players,
Sorry for the delay. i have done quite aggressive test, the problems due to the poor button design. but one of my colleague reported to me, the problem was happening when he selects audio styles. for me its happening occasionally when selecting voices. Do u have any additional test cases. ? present condition the problem is not happening or few time. so i cant conclude.
Thanks
Regards
androidgalaxyman
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I think we are all waiting for Happy Jack to get his keyboard back from repair and hear his report on what was done to fix the problem. In the mean time, all I can say is that my button problem is now minimal since I did the System Reset.
I sent all this info to a Yamaha Tech Support guy and... no response.
Joe H
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I think we are all waiting for Happy Jack to get his keyboard back from repair and hear his report on what was done to fix the problem. In the mean time, all I can say is that my button problem is now minimal since I did the System Reset.
I sent all this info to a Yamaha Tech Support guy and... no response.
Joe H
Hi Joe, Cameron and all,
Update: My individual case is closed after dealer made a goodwill offer of my returning keyboard for refund.
Ergo: as the keyboard is no longer mine, I'm not party to any report regards the fix, as the keyboard was presumably sent back to shop after repair.
Still got my trusty QY100 and QY70 plus my Yammy Pocketrack recorder, plus other samplers and stuff. Think I'll pause awhile, but certainly would consider getting the same model once the button thing is sorted.
Thanks all, and cheers for the support of this amazing forum.
happy regards
Jack
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no problem... Jack you did the right thing having the refund, Hopefully Yamaha will come up with something in due course, but I suspect it's not going to happen for a long time if indeed they come up with some sort of fix.
My own thoughts are that the PCB board which has the contact tracks etched into it might be out of line with the buttons, IOW the bottom of the button which is conductive is not lined up dead centre with the contacts below, it will obviously cause problems, especially so if the boards have too much clearance in the mounting holes allowing movement when they are assembled, which would explain why some are okay but not others.
A possible solution and the easiest to implement, like I suggested previously is to add a few milliseconds delay when it detects a button press so it doesn't check for another until a few milliseconds later, that may help a lot with this double contact issue were having. Hopefully Yamaha will get it sorted.
In any event Jack, I hope we still see you often on here :)
You take care.... best wishes... Cameron
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et al,
This is a bit of discouraging news and not like Yamaha to ignore a problem like this. I'm still in the game though. I'm known for my tenacity. I will continue to work with my Yamaha dealer, and try to reach management through the back door. I think my email to him was hijacked by the support tech person I was commincation with, but can't say for sure.
"It ain't over 'til it's over".
Joe H
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I was really planning to purchase a 970 last week, but I'm postponing that until or if Yamaha fixes those buttons.
My 3000 has never given me a bit of problems all the 10-12 years I've owned it. I only wanted better sounds and a more up-to-date screen. Something that could last me another 10 years without having to send it in.
I'm going to be near a GC later today, and you betcha I'll be looking at keyboards. But it may not be an arranger, because I'm wanting to give Yamaha some time to clear up this discrepancy.
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You have bear in mind that NOT all the 770 and 970 boards are affected Trent, many on here don't have the issue, it's only some.
I obviously understand why it may put some buyers off, but always remember most dealers have easy return policies and as in the case of Jack his dealer offered a refund as did mine too if I wanted it. The keyboard is excellent otherwise and you may get one that doesn't have the A-E/F-J button problem..yes it's a small gamble, but you can always send it back if your unlucky.
I'm phoning them again tomorrow just to see exactly what if anything they plan to do about the ones that are affected, and then I'll decide what to do, I don't really want to lose it because it really is that good. + I'll try another system reset..nothing to lose.
Difficult decision.
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I suspect this is something that is not at all software related, but something as simple as a lose plug that connects to the switch board. I suggest contacting Steve Demming at Yamaha CA and I'm confident he can help solve your problem.
Good Luck,
Gary 8)
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Gary,
I've been one step ahead of you for awhile. Steve is not so easy to reach these days since being promoted to Manager of Customer Support, Yamaha USA.
But... none the less, I sent an email to Steve on January 8 and did not receive a reply. So I sent Steve another email today letting him know there was a perceived problem among users that Yamaha was not responding to reports of the button problem.
I got a very quick reply from him asking me to email details so when he called me he would have answers and not questions.
Here's the good news!
Steve went to an S970 at his disposal and was able to duplicate the button problem! He checked with folks in the UK who were saying there was a "sticky button" problem. Steve said engineers in Japan have been made aware of this issue. After we talked on the phone he sent me another email requesting the serial number of my keyboard so he could add it to "the official list of units exhibiting this behavior"
I sent him the serial numbers of both my keyboard and my brothers S970 as well (he has the button problem too) which by the way were sequential, meaning my brother's board came off the assembly line right behind mine. I told him we got our keyboards in August 2015 and the dealer had at least 2 other boards in that same shipment.
So... Yamaha Japan is looking at the problem now. Steve personally did not think it was a hardware problem. I shared with him a lot of what the exchange has been posted here. He said to let you all know it is now on Yamaha's radar.
Let's keep our fingers crossed we will see a firmware fix. When I suggested it could be a hardware problem like the PSR S900 display module... he said Yamaha will have to address whatever is necessary to fix it.
So... use this information to your advantage. Let your local dealer know about this. email or call Yamaha Tech Support and give them your board serial number and when you took delivery. Tell them Japan knows of the problem and more reports on the button problem are needed and please forward your report of the problem.
Cheers,
Joe H
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Thanks Joe...I intended to ring Yamaha UK anyway tomorrow, and possibly keeping my dealer in the picture too may be prudent.
but thank you for the interesting and positive update, keep up the good work, it's much appreciated.
Cameron
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Gary,
I've been one step ahead of you for awhile. Steve is not so easy to reach these days since being promoted to Manager of Customer Support, Yamaha USA.
But... none the less, I sent an email to Steve on January 8 and did not receive a reply. So I sent Steve another email today letting him know there was a perceived problem among users that Yamaha was not responding to reports of the button problem.
I got a very quick reply from him asking me to email details so when he called me he would have answers and not questions.
Here's the good news!
Steve went to an S970 at his disposal and was able to duplicate the button problem! He checked with folks in the UK who were saying there was a "sticky button" problem. Steve said engineers in Japan have been made aware of this issue. After we talked on the phone he sent me another email requesting the serial number of my keyboard so he could add it to "the official list of units exhibiting this behavior"
I sent him the serial numbers of both my keyboard and my brothers S970 as well (he has the button problem too) which by the way were sequential, meaning my brother's board came off the assembly line right behind mine. I told him we got our keyboards in August 2015 and the dealer had at least 2 other boards in that same shipment.
So... Yamaha Japan is looking at the problem now. Steve personally did not think it was a hardware problem. I shared with him a lot of what the exchange has been posted here. He said to let you all know it is now on Yamaha's radar.
Let's keep our fingers crossed we will see a firmware fix. When I suggested it could be a hardware problem like the PSR S900 display module... he said Yamaha will have to address whatever is necessary to fix it.
So... use this information to your advantage. Let your local dealer know about this. email or call Yamaha Tech Support and give them your board serial number and when you took delivery. Tell them Japan knows of the problem and more reports on the button problem are needed and please forward your report of the problem.
Cheers,
Joe H
Hi Joe,
Thanks for your tireless effort. we been very much happy about it would be a firmware issue. according to your input can we wait for while?
Thanks
Regards
androidgalaxyman
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Hard to say when we will see a fix... but it's good to know Yamaha has finally heard us.
Joe H
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I obviously understand why it may put some buyers off, but always remember most dealers have easy return policies and as in the case of Jack his dealer offered a refund as did mine too if I wanted it. The keyboard is excellent otherwise and you may get one that doesn't have the A-E/F-J button problem..yes it's a small gamble, but you can always send it back if your unlucky.
Difficult decision.
I live way out in the country, in a very rural area of southern Indiana. The GC dealer (60 miles) I visited last night did not have a 970; therefore, I'm forced into online purchasing.
Question is, which online dealer would honor a quick return if my keyboard exhibits this defect?
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Trent,
Good question. While I bought my S970 from my local dealer (in town) my brother bought from this dealer also because of the good price quote. He is 1700 miles away. He and I have discussed this issue. He will either have to find an authorized Yamaha Service Center close to him or ship it back to the dealer he bought it from.
Question is... will Yamaha cover the 2-way shipping costs under warranty if it is a hardware problem. I don't think we will get an answer to that question until the time comes it is determined to be a hardware fix. That's when the dealer comes into play as a go-between.
I would think Yamaha bears the responsibility to make good at whatever cost to them.
Joe H
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I live way out in the country, in a very rural area of southern Indiana. The GC dealer (60 miles) I visited last night did not have a 970; therefore, I'm forced into online purchasing.
Question is, which online dealer would honor a quick return if my keyboard exhibits this defect?
I'm sure a few of our USA based members will suggest a few reputable dealers over there, as they will likely have similar return policies to ours in the UK, but being UK based unfortunately I can't help.
On the question of cost of return postage which Trent mentioned, in the UK the procedure is that your dealer will usually arrange the collection and then they send it to Yamaha, who then return it to the dealer once fixed and they send it to you with no expense to you, it costs you nothing other than the inconvenience of being without your board for a few weeks. Which is why this one of mine has not been returned, though when speaking to my dealer this afternoon they reminded me that they are happy to do this if I wished... so that option is always there as you have a 2yrs warranty with Yamaha, many UK dealers give a extra year or two more on top of the 2yrs. One dealer I use gives 5yrs.
If your sending it to Yamaha yourself, then unless Yamaha has offered to collect it, you may need to pay the shipping costs to them yourself, that's how it generally works in the UK but as Joe said Yamaha may well cover the cost themselves, you would really need to ask them. This is why most owners return them via their dealer who usually collect it.
Not sure how competitive their price is, but Amazon is always an option of course, the main reason I use them and pay for Prime is because it's so dead easy to return things without any expense to you...but depending on price, are they not an option over there. ?
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Trent,
Let's hope they identify the problem soon, then we will know what to do... a simple firmware update, or off to an authorized Yamaha Repair Service Center.
By the way, in the US, there are repair centers that do not actually sell musical instruments but only do repair work for dealers who sell many name-brand audio and digital instrument products. So in my brother's case, he may have a Yamaha authorized repair center where he lives.
Joe H
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Trent,
Let's hope they identify the problem soon, then we will know what to do... a simple firmware update, or off to an authorized Yamaha Repair Service Center.
By the way, in the US, there are repair centers that do not actually sell musical instruments but only do repair work for dealers who sell many name-brand audio and digital instrument products. So in my brother's case, he may have a Yamaha authorized repair center where he lives.
Joe H
Hi, Trent:
disclaimer: forgive the trespass here of an ex-psr-s770 owner ;D
Couriers: Don't know about USA, but here in UK, a couple of couriers won't insure keyboards. Either that, or they limit the maximum liabilty amount. So you'd need a careful reading of the T&Cs.
We're only talking about a 'When things can go wrong' scenario here. :-)
Have only a single experience of receiving a keyboard with impact damage (not visible by the packaging), but which got promptly returned.
The PSR-S770/970's box with its suspension foam inserts is good for general purpose. But if one were to send it to Yamaha independently, I'd consider adding a shaped piece of hardboard to the vulnerable side of the box (keys side) to prevent any penetration damage. Or use a flight case?
Amen.
happy regards - Jack
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I didn't know if mentioning online music dealers was ok here.
That said, one that was mentioned above, Amazon, is pretty good about returns. From my previous experiences, they've almost immediately made a printable label available, and contacted a mail truck to pick it up -- a UPS truck drives right up to the front door, and takes it away! Easy-Peasey.
Kraft, Sweetwater, Musicians Friend, ZZ, Kraft, annd others may do so also. I just haven't returned things to them, although I have purchased from them.
Side note and OT...
At GC last night, I bought cute little iRig Keys 37 Pro; and am playing it on iPad GarageBand right now. It's not a 970, but it sure is more fun than an almost 70-year old should have. LOL
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Hi there,
I think it is okay to name-drop in passing, but to avoid any negative comments. Lots of folk here pay compliments to their keyboard's dealer, or brand of suitable microphones, thumb drives, etc.
That Amazon idea sounds great for the reasons you cite. Me, I'll be back pronto when there's a definite fix for the 'button blight'. I emphasise I refer to those few instances of naughty A-J buttons. (ahem).
"..It's not a 970, but it sure is more fun than an almost 70-year old should have. LOL"
Welcome to the Codgers' Corner of psrtutorial. You are not alone, sir! :-)
happy regards,
Jack
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Yes as Jack said, I don't think praising up a dealer is frowned upon as indeed it might help other users, though if one were to use the forum purely as a platform to discredit a particular dealer, then that's another matter, and I'm sure is against forum rules.
I've only bought one Keyboard from Amazon, which was a Yamaha E443 for my granddaughter early last year and a superb keyboard it was too for just over £200, and ALL it's buttons worked too...lol
I use Amazon a lot, I recently returned a Bose speaker which wasn't exactly cheap, but didn't come up to my expectations not for Bose anyway, and all I had to do was drop it off at our newsagents shop a couple mile away,(one of Amazons Collection points) where they swipe the bar code, and when I returned home 10mins later there was a email waiting for me saying they had already processed my refund. You can't get any better than that, but you only have 30days to return remember, and always ensure it's Amazon that's selling it.
On-line music dealers tend to offer better deals, and generally I've found most of them in the UK very good indeed, but like everywhere there will be the odd one who don't want to know after they have your cash, but that's the case the world over, so recommendations from other members can be useful.
Sorry for going off topic.. ;)
Cameron
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Here's another update.
My brother has firmware v1.03. He has been busy with other things but did a System Reset today and the result he described was... "a 95% reduction in the button problem". He will install v1.04 and let me know if the button problem returns. I suspect the button problem will return in full force.
This is consistent with my experience. I have shared this information with Steve Deming at Yamaha and suggested that maybe there is a bug in the installer program. ??? Who knows!
Joe H
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It was a thought Joe, but my first 970 was on v1.03 it may even have had a earlier firmware I cant remember, but it was certainly I that updated it to 1.04 when it was released, and that first 970 did it pretty much from day 1, in fact I recall mentioning it in passing a couple of times in posts where I asked if anyone else had experienced the problem and that was back in late September/October, but I don't recall making a specific thread/new topic on the subject.. IOW I didn't make a big issue of it at the time because I probably thought it was the way I was pressing the keys.
Also no-one's going to be overly keen in the thought of sending their new board back, so I tended to ignore it TBH., but based on my own experience having used both firmware versions on that 1st board, I didn't see any difference at all Joe, either for the better or worse.
Cameron
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Cameron,
Well here's another theory... the new PSRs have a much faster processor than previous models, so your post about writing some time-delay code could make sense if the (old) code is getting processed much faster than before.
But I'm not a programmer, so I can have fun speculating what the actual cause is. :D ;D
LOL
Joe H
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It makes good logical sense to me too Joe, in fact when I suggested adding a few milliseconds delay after it got a key press to the UK Yamaha Customer support tech on Thursday he also thought it would likely resolve the issue, but when I asked if it was likely to result in a firmware update in the future he was non-committal. I did explain that there are owners who are happy to hang onto their boards as long as they know something would be resolved and forthcoming in the future at some point, but again non-committal.
He did say they are aware of the issue and are monitoring this thread closely, adding that if users press on the high spot of the button it works okay, which on my boards has seemed to help I agree..but no really positive comment from their UK Tech people at the moment.
However in fairness to Yamaha, I do realise that these fixes can and do take time to explore and implement, and 4 times he said they were happy to check it out to ensure it worked to specification if I wished to return it via my dealer who would forward it to them to be checked over, at all times being non-committal, which is why I've not disclosed the persons name, as he was quite a friendly helpful guy but AIS he couldn't give any assurances of what may or may not happen in the future other that say they are monitoring the situation, and also watching this thread for developments... ;)
Cameron
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Hi Joe H and Cameron,
This has nothing to do with Yamaha Instruments; however, I can tell you both as a programmer that some of the survey software I wrote would cease to function with the newer GPS data collectors because of the microprocessor speed. So to resolve the issue I would add a delay in the coding, an extremely easy thing to do, and then we would test the program with the offending data collector. If it didn't function correctly, I just continued increasing the delay, minutely, until the issue was resolved. If this is, in fact, what the issue is on both the S970 and S770 it should be a very easy fix.
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I fully agree Roger I too have some experience of programming, mainly assembler and c++, which is why I suggested a few milliseconds delay loop in previous posts, AYS dead easy to implement, but it should work to help to stop it picking up that double bounce, but I suppose it takes time to go through all their channels and testing before it comes to fruitition..if indeed it ever does. Which is the frustrating part because they don't tell you anything. It's just as well it's a minor annoying problem rather that a real major one.
I certainly wouldn't go as far as to say it's nothing to do with Yamaha Instruments, if it's not Yamaha then who is responsible, it's not made by Ford or Sony. ;) Do Yamaha not write their own firmware for their instruments. ? It would be natural to assume they do.
Cameron
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Rodger and Cameron,
While a somewhat a annoying problem, I find your last exchange interesting. There are smart people at Yamaha. At least we have an advocate inside Yamaha (Steve Deming) who has acknowledged the problem, who has experienced the problem first hand, and is a voice that is listened to from the inside.
All we can do is wait. I can't imagine this button issue NOT being fixed. If Japan engineers now know of the bug, then I'm sure they are digging for it and will find a fix.
I think because of the nature of the bug, it has slipped on by a lot of folks. It's subtle, not obvious. It's irregular and unpredictable. It's like a cat and mouse thing. As a beta tester for Michael Bedesem, I have to establish specific patterns of error and hopefully be able to reproduce those errors reliably before Michael can find the bug and fix the problem.
So we wait... with a smile and play our keyboards! :)
Cheers,
Joe H
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Hi Joe,
Yes, Steve Demming is truly an advocate. Right after I purchased my Tyros 4 I had some questions about music being used on this keyboard, relative to copyright issues, and Steve was very quick to get to the bottom of it for me.
Relative to you being a beta tester, not only did I test my own software but was a beta tester for a major land survey software company in Canada and also a major company here in the United States.
The problem a programmer faces, when they make an alleged fix to the software, is that although it may fix the issue at hand, it may well cause another problem in another part of the program. Sometimes you just end up chasing your own tail...LOL!!!
This is an interesting topic and I will be interested to see how it all plays out.
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"The problem a programmer faces, when they make an alleged fix to the software, is that although it may fix the issue at hand, it may well cause another problem in another part of the program. Sometimes you just end up chasing your own tail...LOL!!! "
YEP!
Joe H
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well I did the little test and yes my keyboard has the button issue. Not really to concerned with it myself as I don't flip around much and I would not even noticed it. However, since I like to upgrade a lot, it brings the problem of selling it. I sell it and whomever gets it may be fussy and complain and want a refund ect. So this post is on my radar and hoping its a firmware fix. fingers crossed....
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Yes that is basically how most of us feel, and Happy Jack mainly sent he's back and had a refund more or less for that reason, because as word spreads about this issue even though quite minor depending how you look at...yes I'm sure it will affect 2nd hand prices, or certainly potential for comeback when you sell it, because it has button issues, and I fully understand his reason for doing so.
Late last year Yamaha released the A3000, which is set above the 770 and shares many of 970 features, but NO live control knobs or Pitch and Modulation wheels, it just has a joystick instead, which I know some people like, but the only joystick I want to use is on my PS4 gaming console. Anyway they have priced it a couple hundred ££ below the 970. It shares the same 512mb expansion memory of the 970 plus other things including the exact same shaped A-E/F-J buttons as the 770 and 970 models as shown below.
Now because the A3000 uses the same appearance button, has any user bought one yet? and if so do the A-E/F-J buttons work perfectly on that model ? or is this problem just 770/970 models ?
Whenever I look at the shape of the top of those buttons I keep asking myself.... why did Yamaha in their wisdom, because they are pretty clever people and don't do things for no reason, so WHY did they put a slope on the A-E and F-J buttons ? what was their LOGIC ?...when all the other 133 are flat topped except those 10 buttons. Now ALL the other 133 flat topped buttons work fine...fact!...but the 10 sloped topped ones do not, whichever way you press those 10 buttons, even when pressed in the centre will have a slight natural effect of pressure being applied slightly more on the raised side because it touches your finger first, so in theory the button is being tilted a little when you press it, and due to the looseness of the buttons are not being depressed squarely to the PCB contacts below so it too does sit squarely across the PCB contacts either, so occasionally a good clean contact is not achieved.
However Yamaha support techs say we should press these buttons on top of the raised part of the buttons, and IME it does improve things, so is that because we are no longer pressing down on a sloped top and therefore might reduce the tendency to tilt a little.
The fact is, if you press on something which has a notable angle it has to apply side pressure as well as down pressure, which will encourage the object to change course. (simple law of physics) Think of Snooker/Pool balls the whole game is based on that principle. So out of a total of 143 buttons on a 770/970 its only the 10 with the sloping tops giving problems, the other 133 buttons which has a flat area on the top of them all work okay. Coincidence or not ?
Look at the picture below at the sloping shape of those buttons and ask yourself, Why did Yamaha shape them that way ? as surely there was a reason, to make it look different ?.. to make it work better ?...or to make it work worse ?..without realising it.
WHY DID YAMAHA PUT THOSE SLOPING TOPS ON THESE BUTTONS ? where common-sense might suggest buttons should be pushed in squarely. Some users say theirs work perfectly, so are there some boards with misaligned PCB contact panels below those 10 A-E/F/J buttons which might give a similar symptom.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Well in the short term, I recommend a System Reset by holding down the right-most white and power-on the keyboard. You will see a message indicating the system is being initialized.
This should reduce the problem to a minimum. It's not a "fix"... just an improvement.
BTW... I press the buttons right in the middle and they work fine that way for me. After my last experience with Yamaha Tech Support, I'm inclined to think some of us know more than they do. Having said that, I think they have a tough job with a large case load and they do the best they can.
Cheers,
Joe H
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In the short term Joe, that's all we really can do :)
In fact if one looks closely, the 2 rows (16 buttons) at the bottom of the screen also have a slight slope to them, but barely noticeable so I can only conclude they added the angled tops merely for aesthetics.
I was grabbing at straws I know...lol..but it does make one wonder in view all the other 133 buttons work fine.
Anyway... I hope they try adding that delay after it gets the first press...fingers xxx.
I also wondered how A3000 owners have got on with theirs, but TBH on comparing them earlier I doubt many will buy the A3000 instead opting for the 970, personally I think the A3000 seems a strange marketing decision, and it's price needs to fall a little more for one not to buy the 970 so it sits more midway price-wise between the 770 and 970.
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Cameron,
The A3000 is targeted at the Oriental / Middle Eastern Market (about 2 billion people). Many of the styles and Voices are different. There is also dedicated Tuning buttons for Eastern music. The Joy Stick is necessary to play (and better for) Turkish and Iranian and Indian styles of music.
BTW... there is an Assign Button for LIVE CONTROL on the A3000... which is implemented with the Joy Stick rather than knobs. I can't see how that works very well though unless the Joy Stick is NOT spring-loaded to bring it back to center(s) when you let go of it. So the A3000 Joy Stick can be used for any of the LIVE CONTROL parameters to modify the Live Arpeggiator as well Pitch Bend and Modulation.
Joe H
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Hi Joe/ Textbook,
I had a doubt on updates. as a functional design , the common behavior will be under single button object. say example single click or double click. could be the chance, the mutipad button update on V.04 will affected the core areas. so can we assume like the v.03 is lesser and v.04 is more when consider the frequency of issues?
i believe the design of button one edge is elevated another one depressed, will may indicate, we should follow the proper press on those sides
Thanks
Regards
androidgalaxyman
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Looking at Textbook's picture below, the buttons look as if they are sloped in a way to "streamline" rapid use when performing- provided the the RH buttons are being poked by the Left Hand fingers and vice versa. The current angle would conform better to that type of use.
Or I wonder whether maybe they anticipate going to a touch screen in future, in which case the fingers would be focussing around the screen and occasionally darting out to the buttons- again the slopes conforming better to this type of use. (Assuming touch screens will continue to have these buttons?).
Whatever the explanation, the current slopes seem not to be the best for left to left/right to right, direct from-the-shoulder use.
John
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I returned my 970 to Guitar Center and, had them order me a new one! The buttons started acting up again. What we did was test the new keyboard at Guitar Center to make sure it worked before I left. It worked perfectly. Hopefully Yamaha figures out what happened to the ones with this problem and, provide a fix. They were sending my old system back to Yamaha.
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Nick,
Thanks for the report. That fact that only some keyboards are exhibiting the button problem suggests these may have a hardware problem. Fortunately Yamaha had one in their possession in California that Steve Deming tested and experienced the issue first hand. All we can do is wait until Yamaha tells us they found a firmware fix or that some keyboards have defective switches that need replacing.
Joe H
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I'm thinking of buying a PSR-S770 but I was hoping to avoid this whole keys-not-working-right issue. Has anyone from Australia experienced this problem? I'm wondering if different countries got different shipments? If you are from Australia, when did you buy your keyboard? Thanks! Also, it appears this keyboard is hard to get at the moment - perhaps they are looking into some sort of fix?
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I'm thinking of buying a PSR-S770 but I was hoping to avoid this whole keys-not-working-right issue. Has anyone from Australia experienced this problem? I'm wondering if different countries got different shipments? If you are from Australia, when did you buy your keyboard? Thanks! Also, it appears this keyboard is hard to get at the moment - perhaps they are looking into some sort of fix?
Hi, while you're waiting for a response from Australian owners: bought my PSR-S770 UK, August 2015, it developed the buttons issue, I reset keyboard but no change, so returned it for refund. Great keyboard but didn't want to be stuck with one whose potential resale value was fried.
Possibly some light use owners haven't noticed their own button issue, or that they have noticed it but think it is a tolerable nuisance? Typically it becomes apparent amid some button-heavy project, like working your way through hundreds of new styles / voices very generously shared by some members here. :)
Shop around for dealer's Return policy, some give a couple of weeks' probation period during which you can return it for full refund for no reason. But check their courier will collect at their own expense?
PS: quote: "...Also, it appears this keyboard is hard to get at the moment - perhaps they are looking into some sort of fix?..." unquote
According to the UK price comparison website (pricespy.co.uk), there seems to be a good stock of PSR-S770s available at the moment of writing.
good regards
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I'm thinking of buying a PSR-S770 but I was hoping to avoid this whole keys-not-working-right issue. Has anyone from Australia experienced this problem? I'm wondering if different countries got different shipments? If you are from Australia, when did you buy your keyboard? Thanks! Also, it appears this keyboard is hard to get at the moment - perhaps they are looking into some sort of fix?
I'm with you on wanting to avoid this issue. I've been thinking about buying the PSR-970 since December, but just don't want the hassle of going through getting an item that expensive (for me) with a known discrepancy.
It's a crying shame that Yamaha has not fixed the buttons issue when it was first brought up, but even worse, they've not acknowledged it. The least they could do is owe up to it, admit that there is a problem, and offer a plan of correcting the problem.
Realizing that arrangers are a small market segment, nonetheless, they're going to lose some loyal customer(s). I'm close to not getting an arranger, and looking at pianos instead. Of course I'm looking at Yamaha's pianos, but Casio seems to be a sleeper and valid competitor. Again, it's a crying shame, and I feel bad for you folks who have been putting up with this.
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Rrgramps,
Yamaha has acknowledged the problem exists. As has already been stated, it appears that those of us who got our keyboards in August (the first shipment) have this problem. So it might be Yamaha has to identify the supplier of the buttons, switches, or the PNL boards under the buttons and determine what is the actual defective hardware part.
BTW... Steve Deming was informed that there are folks out here that feel the way you do and this issue is impacting sales to at least in some undetermined degree.
Joe H
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Saulysw. I bought my PSR S970 2 weeks ago from Bavas Music in Sydney and have not experienced any problems with the buttons. The unit had the firmware version 1.04 already on it, so I am not sure if this is an indication of when it was manufactured, but so far everything is fine. Regards
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Rrgramps,
Yamaha has acknowledged the problem exists. As has already been stated, it appears that those of us who got our keyboards in August (the first shipment) have this problem. So it might be Yamaha has to identify the supplier of the buttons, switches, or the PNL boards under the buttons and determine what is the actual defective hardware part.
BTW... Steve Deming was informed that there are folks out here that feel the way you do and this issue is impacting sales to at least in some undetermined degree.
Joe H
Thanks, Joe, for your tenacity in looking for answers to this button blight issue, you're the Man. 8)
"....Yamaha has acknowledged the problem exists..."
Have they really? But for the benefit of new comers, or for anyone unwilling to wade through 157 posts of this topic: Would it be helpful for that acknowledgement please be pinned to the top of the page until this issue is resolved?
"... it appears that those of us who got our keyboards in August (the first shipment) have this problem...."
Don't know about that, Joe. At least three members of this forum have had their faulty PSR-S997/S770's keyboards replaced recently, and their replacement boards displayed the same fault, either immediately or soon after. Also, here a quote from Textbook's post January 22nd:
"...I popped into a music dealer there to check out a couple of pianos, he has both the 770 and 970 models on display now, and on checking the 970 they had, I found it too exhibited the same issue when pressing those control buttons, and when I pointed it out to the sales guy, he said...do you know I've never noticed that before I thought it was the way I pressed the button, he just shrugged it off as no big deal(unquote)
Anyway, thanks again, Joe for your work so far. Got my refund safely salted away, so patiently waiting for a happy resolution of this issue.
happy regards
Jack
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Jack,
I'm going to share a couple of these last posts with Steve Deming so he knows what the conversation is. Your latest information is also helpful... so it isn't just those early shipments. Yes... as I stated above it's a subtle malfunction that doesn't appear to be a problem but it is... and can be quite irritating when it happens a lot when we are trying to do some kind of setup and then have to start all over again because the keyboard Exited out of the screen we were working in. :'(
Joe H
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Joe H
Just an FYI The original 970 I had was built in August with the 1.03 firmware loaded which I returned. The new one I have now was built in October with the 1.04 firmware loaded with no issue. Also I don't know if they are all manufactured at the same location? My box said Made in Indonesia.
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Nick,
Thanks for the report. Mine was also built in Indonesia. I sent a recent link to Steve Deming at Yamaha asking him to forward it to "whom it may concern". There have now been more than 6000 views of this thread, so I hope Yamaha is reading this info.
Joe H
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Well Joe, I've tried 2 or 3 system resets this week, just to see if I could detect any improvement, and I'd love to be able say yes it occurred less often, but sadly I cannot. Last week I even did a complete factory reset, ticking everything, so I had to setup all my expansion packs/registrations, everything again, just to see if that made any difference, but sadly not.
I still get the odd missed press, which is almost eliminated if I remember to press on the high spot, but still get the jump back to the main menu occasionally, especially when doing a lot of button pressing trying new voice mixes and setting up registrations. This one also had v1.03 installed when it arrived so may well be old stock, possibly from same batch as the first.
I'm plodding on, hoping that Yamaha will come up with something eventually. ;)
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Cameron,
The reset only helps some but doesn't get rid of the problem as we all know now. I'd like to suggest you send Steve Deming your keyboard serial number and ask him to add it to the official list of boards with the button problem. You may be in the UK but he has at least acknowledged and experienced the problem for himself. He indicated he has forwarded the info to whomever needs to know about it. It's worth a try.
Steve Deming: supportreply@yamaha.com
Make sure you include "Attention Steve Deming" in the subject box of your email.
Regards,
Joe H
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Thanks Joe...Yes will do.
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Well, I have placed an order for S770, so here is hoping we don't get a dud. Fingers crossed. Thanks for all the replies to my question.
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Well, I have placed an order for S770, so here is hoping we don't get a dud. Fingers crossed. Thanks for all the replies to my question.
I really hope it works out good for you, Saul. :) :) :)
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et al,
I received an email from Steve Deming at Yamaha today. It is below. We can be grateful that Steve has shown interest in getting the message to the right people.
We have been heard!
"Hi Joe,
Thank you for your input. I have already forwarded your concerns (and the PSR tutorial information) to both QC and Marketing. I would not expect a response very soon. It's not my area, but in my experience, it takes a while for these things to be worked out.
Steve Deming"
Cheers,
Joe H
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I just discovered something new today related to the button issue...
I was reading the Reference Manual and found we can change the way the buttons function.
FUNCTION -> UTILITY-> CONFIGURATION 2 ->VOICE CATEGORY BUTTON OPTIONS ->OPEN ONLY
It appears that the default setting is OPEN AND SELECT. Since I changed to the option Open Only setting, I must very definitely "double press" to EXIT out of the Voice screen. I haven't used this setting enough yet to determine if this will completely stop the erratic button behavior when selecting a Voice.
Others might want to try this also to see if it makes a difference and report back here with their findings.
Joe H
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Hi
Mine is in "Open and Select" but I do not seem to have the issue so far.
Ed B
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Greetings Ed,
That fact that only a certain number of S770 and S970 owners are experiencing the erratic button operation suggests a hardware problem from a particular manufacturing facility or maybe a parts supplier, IE; some defective part(s). Whether it be the physical buttons, switches or the circuit board associated with the [A] - [J] button operation.
The OPEN ONLY option appears to require a distinct double-press of the buttons to EXIT out of any particular Voice Category folder. I think ANY consistent behavior we can establish may be helpful in trouble shooting the problem.
I am hopeful that Yamaha engineers will be thorough in THEIR trouble shooting efforts. The fact that a System Reset makes a difference and changing the button function to OPEN ONLY makes a difference should be clues pointing to the root cause and a fix.
Regards,
Joe H
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An interesting observation Joe, I tried it myself, with just 'OPEN' enabled, and after selecting a couple of pages of voices one after another, I was starting to think...positive thoughts, and then it jumped back out again, in fact twice in succession.
I'm still trying to decide what the difference is between those 2 voice button settings, as 'Open' would suggest you need to press again to select it, but that's not the case at all, I'm not seeing any behaviour difference when using those 2 button options...which is strange.
Those 2 voice catagory button options, you would think that if set to 'OPEN' it would'nt switch voice until pressed again, but it does.
IOW if set to 'OPEN' in theory you would need to press twice, 1 to open it and a 2nd press to select it.
I did notice that this issue of jumping back out, also occurs if I'm browsing a pen-drive full of Midi files, where say one midi is playing, and you press a second midi, and it highlights it with the word 'Next' as normal and then a second press starts to play the new midi file, well just occasionally it will jump out to the 'Live Control Screen'.
I'll do further experimentation today, putting this button issue one side for a moment... I'm struggling to see any difference in actual use between these 2 category button options...ie. 'OPEN' and 'OPEN/SELECT' which is very strange as one would think there would be a distinct difference in how they worked when you selected voices, or am I missing something here, and I've not woke up yet...lol
Anyway Joe, it's certainly an interesting find, as I certainly never noticed it, now I need to find out exactly what it does...lol
With it set to 'Open' are you seeing any difference in how the buttons work ? do you now have to press twice to make a change ? or does it still function as before, as I don't seem to be seeing any difference at all....weird.
EDIT:
One thing is definite on mine anyway, if I press on that high point of the buttons it always works okay 'every-time', but if press the buttons anywhere else and it will frequently exit back to main screen. I just pressed the buttons 80 times using the hight point and it never missed once or bounced me back to the main screen, but it just bounced me back to main screen on the 5th press when pressed in the centre. So the workaround also seems to vary a little between boards it seems. ;)
I'll have a read of the manuals to see what it has to say about those to 2 voice category button options, as I'm not seeing any difference at all whichever one I set it for.
Cameron
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Hi Cameron,
After setting the button function to "OPEN", what happens is when you select (press) a Voice Category, it opens to that Voice folder without actually selecting (highlighting) the first Voice in the folder, yes you have to then press a button to select a Voice. I selected a bunch of Voices very quickly and it worked normal as it should. to EXIT out of the Voice screen it required a very distinct double-press.
If your keyboard is not behaving this way then that is an interesting condition.
I too have had the experience of the screen exiting out to a previous screen such as the Harmony/Arpeggiator screen or the Live Control screen... which in those cases was the previous screen I was in.
Did you ever update your keyboard to firmware v1.04? If you haven't you might get a different result with the buttons. As stated earlier, it doesn't seem to make a difference with my board whether I press on the high-side or in the middle of the button. I'm leaning toward the position that this is a hardware issue since the problem is not wide spread.
Joe H
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Hi Joe, thanks for the explanation, yes mine is behaving the same way, it does select the first voice if the 'Open/Select' option is chosen.
I think I had my wires crossed earlier, it didn't click with me that it only applied to the 1st voice when going into the voice category screen, I was still asleep... ;D and yes I am on v1.04, that was one of the first things I did when it arrived.
I'm trying to decide whether having that option set to 'Open' is actually better or not....lol, one things for sure it's certainly NOT worse, as it only applies to the first voice when you go to the voice category screen. I just pressed through about 20 voices pressing in the centre of the button and I managed 20 presses before it popped me back out again.
I can see why having it set to 'OPEN' would certainly stop it reverting back out immediately when first going into the voice category screen, but once in the voice category screen and maybe trying different voices it does nothing to aid the problem of exiting back out.
IOW it only decides whether the FIRST voice is PRE-SELECTED or not, I don't think it makes any difference afterwards when selecting different voices inside the voice category screen. ? Have you had yours bounce you back out immediately you went into that voice category screen ? I can't say I have, mine nearly always happens when trying new voice mixes and storing them to registrations as that's when I tend to do more button bashing.
I'm also of the opinion that it is a hardware issue, maybe just a simple alignment issue with the pcb board below the buttons, causing a double bounce, if it wasn't for the warranty I'd have probably opened it up by now. ;) I still think a short delay in firmware after getting the 1st press would solve it.
Personally, because it's a weird one to actually pin down with a definitive cause, and indeed it's behaviour is not predictable, I think there's more out there, but many owners are simply not aware, as it's not exactly an obvious black n white problem, if it were it would be much easier..lol
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Cameron,
I just tried selecting Voices again this morning, randomly selecting Voices very fast and could not get the screen to EXIT as it does with it set to the OPEN AND SELECT option. So... we don't all get the same result.. interesting! ??? ??? ???
BTW... With the Voice Select set to just "OPEN" this works the same way as when selecting style, Multi Pad, Song and MP3 files, IE; when you press a button a folder is opened but no file is highlighted until you actually select it.
Cheers,
Joe H
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Hi Joe, Yamaha must replace the button along the screen by a touch screen as i think all the S970 have this problem; i remember that the S910 had already some problems like this with the buttons; Yamaha can also try to have a connection with a tablet (Ipad) and we could use the tablet to make all the settings we want from the tablet! Joe again thanks a lot for the hard work for all, cheers Patrick
:) ;) :D
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Hi Patrick,
I think you are correct saying that the S910 would EXIT a screen once in awhile... but did not do that very much. The OPEN ONLY option is something that is not on the S910.
I don't know about a touch screen though. I personally would rather not have a touch screen on my arranger keyboard. Direct Access gets us anywhere we want to go with 2 button presses... Direct Access plus 1 more. How can a touch screen be any better than that or any faster? ??? Many destinations can be accessed from the Main Screen with one button press.
Cheers,
Joe H
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I'm with Joe on this one, I'm not a big fan of touch screens, great for tablets but not on my keyboards anyway, and I don't have to keep cleaning the screen. I have a touch screen on my 88 Casio Piano, and though yes it works perfectly it does mean it needs cleaning frequently, but each to their own. I have a feeling however that Yamaha will be going this direction in future models as it's actually cheaper than having lots of buttons. IME it works better on larger screens, the one on my Casio would have been much better had it been larger.
The direct access is a great feature which I use an awful lot, it just makes things so easy, funny enough, only yesterday, I was showing my Vicar neighbour how to make more of the 'Direct Access' feature on his 770 as he never used it at all previously, and didn't know what it was for.
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Hi everyone!
Sorry I've not been around to discuss this, I've been ill all of Jan and Feb and just recovering. So a belated happy new year to everyone.
Anyway, I got a replacement PSR s970 from Yamaha before Christmas which they tested to their satisfaction before sending. When the buttons are pressed on the outside or middle of the buttons I don't get the issue at all but pressing the inside of the button still causes the problem but only very occasionally rather than every few key presses as before. I spoke to UK support about this because it seems like the buttons need a better guide - pressing on the outside forces the buttons straight down against the plastic surround.
Yamaha told me this is exactly the behaviour their reference unit exhibits and is to be expected on this type of button - the button, as I understand it, pushes a bubble style contact and any roll in the button can cause a double press. Of course, the buttons do wobble a little due to the large hole in the surround and don't seem to have a guide so this is always a possibility.
I have an M Audio Keystation that uses rubber buttons with much shorter travel and never has any problems. There must be a reason Yamaha choose buttons with such a long travel in them, perhaps it shares the circuit board with the screen although I don't understand why that is set back so far behind the plastic either - the contrast of the screen would be better if it was directly behind the plastic or even better bonded directly to it in the style of Apple Macbook Pro laptops (which actually uses glass).
Also, Yamaha did acknowledge that the keyboards I returned had faulty circuit boards. So there are faulty keyboards out there. But it seems the occasional double press is to be expected because of the design of the keyboard. What puzzles me though, is why this problem never came up with the PSR s950 and PSR s750 which uses the same style of button - perhaps their different shape ensures a more direct press of the button onto the contact? However, I think the raised outer edge of the keys on the new keyboards is supposed to push the button outwards against the plastic to guide it to the contact.
Also, I don't understand how this issue wasn't picked up in the design stage because a plastic guide either side of the button would ensure only a direct press was possible wherever the button was pressed.
At least now I have a normally functioning PSR s970 that I can use and enjoy.
Regards,
Paul.
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Paul,
Thanks for this update. So it sounds like a hardware problem and some of us need a circuit board replaced. I should pass this along to Steve Deming just so the right hand knows what the left hand is doing. ;D
Cheers,
Joe H
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I sold my 970 after a couple of months, but I seem to recall there were times when extra button pushes were necessary. I just passed it off to shoddy workmanship.
Anyway, I'm a huge fan of touch screens. I was so used to just lightly touching the function I wanted on my Korgs that I had real trouble with the buttons anyway, so I attributed the problem to that.
Maybe there was a problem after all, but still not certain.
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OK,
I have passed this info along to Yamaha USA, now to see if my dealer can get a confirmation of the faulty circuit boards via a diagnostic test.
:)
Joe H
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Don't think circuit boards will have anything to do with buttons. As long as you press them in the middle they should be fine. Of course like all Yamaha keyboards if you accidentally press twice it will take you back to the main screen. I had one of the first keyboards in the country here and have never had a problem and I do a lot of button pushing.
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EileenL,
It is obvious that there are some keyboards that have the button problem. Yamaha has acknowledged it. There is a switch and a PNL board that has a membrane under the buttons much like the mylar on computer keyboards.
I'm hoping they will be able to determine if my S970 has defective parts with the built-in diagnostic test. I've waited all this time because the manager at the store where I bought it couldn't get any information from Yamaha about the problem when it was first showing up. Now we have some history and communications with Yamaha which should help.
Joe H
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I spoke with my dealer today and the manager told me Yamaha has indicated to him there is a problem with some S770 and S970 keyboards. I will talk directly with their repair guy tomorrow. I assume he can get guidance from Yamaha in California as to how to test... and what to test for.
Stay tuned! :)
Joe H
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Greetings, EileenL,
EileenL wrote on January 22, 2016,
"...Here in the UK I have not seen any reports of buttons not working properly. I run my own forum here and have not had one post saying that members are having trouble with buttons at all...."
and then again
EileenL wrote on February 22/2016
"...Don't think circuit boards will have anything to do with buttons. As long as you press them in the middle they should be fine..."
So, EileenL, what to write on March 22/2016???
Look forward to your next episode of 'No Bad Buttons Here!'
happy regards
Jack ;D
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I spoke with my dealer today and the manager told me Yamaha has indicated to him there is a problem with some S770 and S970 keyboards. I will talk directly with their repair guy tomorrow. I assume he can get guidance from Yamaha in California as to how test... and what to test for.
Stay tuned! :)
Joe H
Nice work again, Joe
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Simply out of curiosity, do any of you think this button issue would make potential buyers lean more towards the PSR-S670?
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Two thoughts...
1. the S670 is a lot less keyboard.
2. I think the button problem is beginning to be addressed by Yamaha.
I will continue to follow-up on my efforts. I'll get the details of what is found and how it is fixed (specific part # if I can) and will share that info here.
Joe H
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Simply out of curiosity, do any of you think this button issue would make potential buyers lean more towards the PSR-S670?
I've been waiting since December to purchase the PSR-970 and replace my PSR-3000. This button issue has absolutely made me as potential buyer lean in another direction; a Casio Privia PX-560. But it is not for replacing the arranger -- instead, it supplements an arranger with a good great piano platform. My PSR-3000 is on 2d tier when this pair is combined to a single z-stand. Otherwise, and as for now, it is in its black cabinet in my living room.
When the 970 buttons are fixed, I may look again into purchasing it -- but only until that happens. Until then, it's a broken and defective model. The window to its soul is physically challenged. Communications to vital information are randomly breached.
:( :(
I understand that YMMD and you have workarounds, or it doesn't affect all 970's, or you can live with it, or you can press the buttons in a certain place -- but I fell off the wagon while waiting.
EDIT: BTW, thanks to you Joe and others for your hard work in getting Yamaha's attention on this issue.
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I, unfortunately, sold my PSR-S750 a while ago, so I've been without an arranger for some time. But the itch is back and I pulled the trigger on a new PSR-S770. The store I bought it from has a two-year repair/replacement policy, so I hope that counts for something. Nevertheless, I'll watch this thread and see if Yamaha addresses this problem and how. I remember a few years back when their fully-weighted keyboards exhibited some keys breaking due to bad lubrication used in the manufacturing process. Yamaha would replace, for free, any key-beds affected (and still will). I hope they'll do something similar here. Thanks to Joe and others for keeping on this. We'll see how things turn out.
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Dear Joe,
i sent two mails to customer care. They asked me the bill details. The indian customer care functioning way pathetically, they haven't replied back to me. i discussed with dealer he said i have to go service center. i was little bit tired!
Thanks
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Here is my latest report on the button issue:
I talked to the repair guy at my Yamaha dealer. He couldn't find any Service Bulletin posted that is related to the button issue. So he emailed Steve Deming and got a response from a Tech Support supervisor. ??? ... who suggested we do a firmware update and sent the repair guy firmware v1.03 ??? ??? ??? (the latest version is v1.04)
I decided to do the diagnostic test myself and got a NG report on 2 of the buttons along side the screen. One on the left and one on the right. I ran the test twice more and got NO NG messages (that darn erratic behavior).
Well I installed firmware v1.03 first because I wanted to be sure that the OS was being completely over-written. BTW... updating the OS does NOT wipe-out your personal settings, which is good news. So I had to set the Voice button operation back to Open and Select.
I tried creating the screen EXIT problem by pressing Voice selections as fast as I could go with 2 hands...left-right, left-right. I was hard pressed to get the glitch to happen. I ran the diagnostic test and found no problem buttons.
So I installed v1.04 and tried again. Couldn't get the buttons to malfunction. I ran the diagnostic test once more and no NG messages on any of the buttons. So I set the button function back to Open Only and went through the same fast two-handed Voice selection process again and couldn't get the glitch to happen.
So I'm thinking about... why does a System Reset (that I did before) eliminate most of the erratic button behavior. Now having installed the firmware again and not being able to get the button glitch to occur, (for now) this seems to indicate there may be a glitch in the firmware updater program.
I need to give it some time but I hope the problem is fixed by going through this whole exercise. If the button issue does happen again, I'll try another System Reset.
I'm finding this whole situation a very curious one. I can understand why Yamaha is not jumping on this issue with great interest.
Anyone with the button problem should try re-installing firmware v1.04 and/or a System Reset.... also go into Config 2 and set the Voice button operation to OPEN ONLY.
If this doesn't fix the problem, I'll be back in Yamaha's face again. ;D If the diagnostic test does not show any bad buttons for the repair guy, he can't justify ordering and replacing buttons or switches. Which means my last resort would be to demand a replacement keyboard.
Joe H
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Hi Joe,
I've been following this thread with great interest, although I don't own either of these keyboards.
It sounds like you may be nearing the end of the quest to resolve this issue. On behalf of all the members here, I'd like to thank you for your undying persistence.
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Hi all. I received my new PSR-S770 today and I just thought I'd share my experiences with this button problem. YMMV. I checked the A-J buttons immediately. After about 3 cycles on A-E on the Piano Voice screen, it reset and went back out to the Main screen. It also did this on the F-J side after about 3.5 cycles. I updated the firmware to V1.04 (mine was V1.00 from July 2015 manufacture date) and did a hard reset. I also set Voice Category Button Options to "Open Only" in Config2. So far, I have run the "60-Press Test" 3 times and it has always stayed on the right buttons on the Voice screen. So perhaps (fingers crossed) the problem has gone away on my keyboard by upgrading it from Windows 8 to Windows 10. Ha ha! Who knows? But it's working fine right now. I'll continue to watch this thread. Thanks to everyone who is involved in bringing this to Yammie's attention and in their recommendations.
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billmc,
Thanks for that report. What a pain this has been. :P :'(
I'm happy to hear the procedure worked for you 8) I hope that it will work for all of us. :)
Joe H
PS: Roger thank you for your comments. I'm a persistent guy! ;D
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I too will try the firmware update again, it's on 1.04 at the moment, but happy to try anything, as mine is still doing it occasionally, even with that setting set to 'open' as obviously that setting only applies when going into one of the voice categories initially, Ie. auto selects the first voice in the category or not. So it might help with the first press but in theory makes no difference afterwards.
IOW, it only decides whether 1st voice is pre-selected or not, so won't affect other voices inside each voice category, anyway I'll try a firmware re-install, and may try 1.03 first if I can find it...
Cheers Joe, will report back with findings.
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I too will try the firmware update again, it's on 1.04 at the moment, but happy to try anything, as mine is still doing it occasionally, even with that setting set to 'open' as obviously that setting only applies when going into one of the voice categories initially, Ie. auto selects the first voice in the category or not. So it might help with the first press but in theory makes no difference afterwards.
IOW, it only decides whether 1st voice is pre-selected or not, so won't affect other voices inside each voice category, anyway I'll try a firmware re-install, and may try 1.03 first if I can find it...
Cheers Joe, will report back with findings.
Hi Guys,
Thanks for your testing and discussing here. but still the moment, we don't have concrete evident on problems on either hardware or firmware. The testing pattern we are having certain limitation, so that we can't recreate the issue.
:-\
Thanks
keep on we have to test!
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Just a quick update. While playing some old XGMidi songs off my USB stick last night, my screen jumped twice from the Song Select screen all the way back out to the Main screen.
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billmc,
Were you pushing buttons at the time or did this happen while the songs were playing and you were not touching the keyboard.
Joe H
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Good Aportation, my english is not good, I speak spanish.
I called to yamaha of México, and they said that this problem were in the PSR-s950 also. And this action of bottons is normal.
so not affect anything.
I think that the really problem is the skin of this model, painting is very delicate. and the other skin of s950 is more ressitant.
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There have been over 7900 views of the thread. If this is "normal", why aren't more people posting stating that they had this experience with the S950 or are experiencing the same issues with the [A] - [J] buttons on their S970 or S770? ??? ??? ???
There is obviously something wrong... Cameron probably got it right from the beginning saying it could be fixed in firmware code. My brother and I agree with his assessment. It is not normal for the keyboard to EXIT a screen for no reason... and especially when you do not want it to EXIT the current screen.
Attached is instructions for how to run the diagnostic test if anyone is interested in doing that. Just keep in mind you can only press any button during the test just once. Pressing it a second time will give the NG message. If a button sends a double-press message with a single press during the test, you will see the NG message. This happened to me on two buttons the first time I ran the test but has not done it since then even though I have run the test several times now.
Joe H
[attachment deleted by admin]
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There have been over 7900 views of the thread. If this is "normal", why aren't more people posting stating that they had this experience with the S950 or are experiencing the same issues with the [A] - [J] buttons on their S970 or S770? ??? ??? ???
There is obviously something wrong... Cameron probably got it right from the beginning saying it could be fixed in firmware code. My brother and I agree with his assessment. It is not normal for the keyboard to EXIT a screen for no reason... and especially when you do not want it to EXIT the current screen.
Attached is instructions for how to run the diagnostic test if anyone is interested in doing that. Just keep in mind you can only press any button during the test just once. Pressing it a second time will give the NG message. If a button sends a double-press message with a single press during the test, you will see the NG message. This happened to me on two buttons the first time I ran the test but has not done it since then even though I have run the test several times now.
Joe H
Dear Joe,
i totally agree with your view. one of my colleague have said, this same problem seen on PSR SS950 too. but i couldn't understand why the problem is happening in PSR S770 / S 970 as well. here my comment on this, the firmware base technically same code for both numbers. may be some sort of enhancements have been done for S770 etc. because of the functionality like DJ option. Truly yamaha have to answer this question. This problem been earlier noticed by them, but not corrected as well. as we discussed earlier it could be a defective part or firmware. But i do insist, the yamaha not ready to resolve.
Thanks
Regards
androidgalaxyman
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Joe, my S770 popped back to Main menu when I was pushing a button for the next song. In other words, I didn't have the keyboard in Jukebox mode (automatically playing one song after another). I was simply pressing the button for whatever the next song was and instead of playing that song, the menu backed out to Main (but with the desired song selected). Hope this tidbit helps in your data collection. It's a shame these keyboards do this. I, fortunately, seldom play live, so I'm not worried about changing voice/style mid-performance. But my prior S710 and S750 never did this. Something is wrong with how the processor in these keyboards reads or scans the menu buttons.
Thanks again for all you do.
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Joe, I do have to admit that I never sat at my S710 and S750 and put them through a "button test" of repeated pressing these menu buttons in succession. On the other hand, and on both keyboards, I did filter through multiple songs, voices, and styles that I have collected down through the years to see which ones were, for me, "keepers" and these other 2 keyboards NEVER popped back to the Main menu screen. Of course, Eileen (and others) haven't seen this problem, so I was hoping I would get one that didn't exhibit this quirk. What I have to decide now, seeing as Yamaha doesn't seem to want to really address it any time soon, is whether I can "live with it" due to the way I use the keyboard (recording with sequencer) or whether I want to look for a used prior generation. If I was a live-performer, I definitely could not "live with it" if I needed to change voices, styles, or some other parameters during a performance. As always, just my 2 cents.
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Well I finally got round to re-installing firmware version 1.04, unfortunately I don't seem to have 1.03 so I downloaded 1.04 again and installed it, and strangely though it's exactly the same version, I've just pressed those buttons again about 40 times without having a single exit back to the main screen, and that was before I'd changed the voice select option to 'Open' only.
I must admit, over the last few weeks when using those buttons I have had a tendency to press slightly on the outside, as on mine it definitely seemed to help, so it's become second nature to do so now, but I tried about 20 or 30 presses in the centre and I was a little surprised to find they seemed to work okay...very strange, though I'm certainly not complaining..lol
I'll see how it goes over the next few days, as Joe stated re-installing the firmware does not change your personal settings, only thing is, installing firmware unless it's necessary when upgrading the version is something one likes to avoid.
EDIT: I've since tried many more times just pressing in the centre of the button, and it exited back to the main screen twice, so it's not cured it 100%, but I certainly don't think it's as bad as it was previously, which I find very strange, and indeed if I press near the outside of the button it never seems to happen. I don't think it really matters whether that voice 'Open' 'Open/Select' option is set or not, but I'm still of the opinion that a slight delay loop of a few mili seconds introduced in the firmware would likely resolve the problem for good...
ARE YOU LISTENING YAMAHA ? ;)
It's obviously being caused by the odd double contact, where it thinks you pressed the button twice, if it were not, then it would immediately exit as soon as you selected a voice category if the voice select option was set to it's default of 'Open/Select' and I can't say I've ever seen it do that, on my 970 it usually exits out if I press in the centre after a few button presses, but if I apply slight pressure to the outside as I press it or on the high point it works pretty much perfect. :)
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Cameron,
Why is it you could figure out a solution in five minutes and Yamaha still doesn't get it? ??? ??? ???
Doing s System Reset by holding down the right-most white key while turning on the power also helped. This IS weird to say the least. That's why one of my theories was a bug or glitch in the firmware installer program.
I've ran the diagnostic test a couple more times and cannot get a button failure (the NG - "No Good" message). As I have stated above, unless this happens for the repair guy, he can't justify ordering parts.
Like you and a couple others who have reported here, doing the re-install of v1.4 firmware and a System Reset reduces the problem to a minimum. Also pressing the button on the high-side does reduce the problem even more.
As Roger said, we may be at the end of the road in our quest to get a fix from Yamaha. :o
Joe H
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TBH Joe I don't know, I spent most of my life designing circuits for various control systems from control circuit boards on washing machines to laser printers...lol before branching into Fruit Machines and then the design and manufacture of 4D theatres which is what my 2 sons now do in the business, they install throughout the world... do a search on 4D Emmersive Tunnel, there's only company in the UK that sells them...so easy to find.
Sadly you hit it on the head, there's not enough people reporting the problem, though I do think the issue is greater than the few on here might suggest. This is my second one with the problem, my vicar neighbours 770 also exhibits the same issues, and I've come across 2 of them in showrooms and both had the issue, so you tell me.
Though I have little contact with others outside of this forum, I personally have yet to put my hands on either a 770 or 970 that does not have the issue, but in my case that's only 5 boards...lol, ie. my 2, the neighbours, and the 2 in the store I tried. My dealer said they had received 5 other reports from customers besides myself, but they are a very large dealership so would ship lots of them.
Maybe it is just a few isolated cases, I honestly don't know, one might ask how many people buy these boards and never use this forum so likely would not be aware, as it's not exactly something that makes it a deal breaker, though that's a personal opinion. However, I agree with Happy Jack it is something that may affect it's value or the potential for bouncing back if one ever sells it, though I'm fortunate it wouldn't bother me too much, but it could be a potential concern for some people.
I might give Yamaha UK a ring this week just to see if they have anything more to say since I last spoke to them, the last time he more or less fobbed me off by telling me to press on the outside of the button and problem is solved..lol..adding they were monitoring the position ( I assume this thread ) He also said I could ask my dealer to replace it, which is what I did, I never thought the second one would have the same issue, albeit not so bad as the first one, on that first one I was lucky to press 4 or 5 times before it exited back to the main screen, it was a real pain in the bum, at least it occurs less frequent on this one.
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TBH Joe I don't know, I spent most of my life designing circuits for various control systems from control circuit boards on washing machines to laser printers...lol before branching into Fruit Machines and then the design and manufacture of 4D theatres which is what my 2 sons now do in the business, they install throughout the world... do a search on 4D Emmersive Tunnel, there's only company in the UK that sells them...so easy to find.
Sadly you hit it on the head, there's not enough people reporting the problem, though I do think the issue is greater than the few on here might suggest. This is my second one with the problem, my vicar neighbours 770 also exhibits the same issues, and I've come across 2 of them in showrooms and both had the issue, so you tell me.
Though I have little contact with others outside of this forum, I personally have yet to put my hands on either a 770 or 970 that does not have the issue, but in my case that's only 5 boards...lol, ie. my 2, the neighbours, and the 2 in the store I tried. My dealer said they had received 5 other reports from customers besides myself, but they are a very large dealership so would ship lots of them.
Maybe it is just a few isolated cases, I honestly don't know, one might ask how many people buy these boards and never use this forum so likely would not be aware, as it's not exactly something that makes it a deal breaker, though that's a personal opinion. However, I agree with Happy Jack it is something that may affect it's value or the potential for bouncing back if one ever sells it, though I'm fortunate it wouldn't bother me too much, but it could be of some concern for some people.
I might give Yamaha UK a ring this week just to see if they have anything more to say since I last spoke to them, the last time he more or less fobbed me off by telling me to press on the outside of the button and problem is solved..lol..adding they were monitoring the position ( I assume this thread...lol) He also said I could ask my dealer to replace it, which is what I did, I never thought the second one would have the same issue, albeit not quite so bad as the first one, on that first one I was lucky to press 4 or 5 times before it exited back to the main screen, it was a real pain in the bum, at least it occurs less frequent on this one.
That's a useful precis of the story so far, Cameron.
Yes, after the bad buttons issue, I opted to return my PSR-S770 for a refund. Didn't want to be stuck with a keyboard whose lesser resale value would be a block to any future upgrades. Fortunately my retailer was keen to show goodwill, and thanks to him for that fine gesture.
As regards the advice of hitting the sweet spot (the highest tip) of the A-J buttons, I tried that and it proved too much of a distraction. Plus one really needed a vacuum pump to suck out the dimples of my codger-type fingers. Bear in mind, that one is pressing something the size of a match head time after time.
Hoping that Yamaha will fix this button issue one way or another. Got plenty of other toys to keep me occupied in the meantime, so happy regards to all here
Jack
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Hi Joe and Cameron,
As I have previously said, I've been following this thread with great interest, but don't own this keyboard so have never said very much. Just one other comment by me that Joe referenced.
Most people probably think they are doing something wrong (operator error) and are not technically oriented like the three of us. Therefore, they just pass it off and continue to play their keyboard until it happens again and continue the same process.
When I wrote and sold software, I had a select group of beta testers. They were good beta testers and helped me to isolate problem parts of my code. I could give this same software to the everyday employees and they would not report anything back to me. They were always too embarrassed to say that anything might be wrong because they thought it was operator error and they didn't know how to use the program.
I suspicion that many owners of this keyboard fall into that category. I will continue to follow this thread with great interest.
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It's certainly a strange one Roger, for example I re-installed the same version firmware earlier this evening, and though I admit I was a little sceptical when Joe said it seemed to improve things on his 970. However having done the same thing, so in effect I'm still running the same version firmware but re-installed, and further testing while setting up more registration banks does definitely show a big improvement, which sort of defeats all logic...lol. It hasn't cured it 100% as it exited twice earlier, but it's certainly happening much less, indeed if it stayed like this I'd be perfectly happy. Just twice in one evening is a **** of an improvement compared to how often it did it previously.
That's the main problem Roger, it's not like something you can put your finger on, we are all trying different things just to see if it alleviates the issue, as Joe has been doing to his credit. In reality re-installing the firmware shouldn't make a scrap of difference, but it has definitely improved things, so now we have to ask why ?
As far as I can see it's not changed any of my settings by re-installing it. I just set up a extra 3 registration banks so thats 30 in total which in the process I went through quite a lot of various voice mixes with the odd change of octave to one voice to get the sound I liked, so a lot of button pushing and it never gave a problem, though I do think my getting in the habit of pressing near the outside of the button every-time is playing a positive roll too, IOW I've learned how to press them to avoid the issue, and so I tend to do it automatically now.
I do think, the problem is caused by it picking up a double press of the button, so likely a hardware issue of some sort, but at the same time I suspect a small time delay of a few milli-seconds after detecting the first contact would possibly solve it too.
The problem is if your a manufacturer who say has sold say 50,000, and you have few dozen with this issue but no-one else is reporting it, you are unlikely to issue a potential firmware fix that may or may not fix it, and risk issues with all the other 49,800+ boards out there which to all intents and purposes are working fine. Therefore the only option for Yamaha is to advise those afflicted by the issue to send them in for repair, and I suspect because it's not a major issue, not many will bother doing so, myself included, unless it begins to get worse of course, and I think they know that, as probably very few have been sent in for repair.
The big question is why should a re-install of the same version firmware noticeably improve things, surely that is telling us something ? clearing out some crap..lol some setting being reset...weird..Joe always reckoned that a system reset helped his 970, coincidence or not, it's so hard to tie it down...we need a Sherlock Holmes on the case.
I wouldn't mind so much if Yamaha acknowledged the issue, and came up with a few idea's, but they won't do that as it would be admitting there's an issue with some models, and Yamaha Keyboards are perfect...right!....well their piano could be better...lol sorry couldn't resist that..lol
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Roger,
As a beta tester it requires patience, persistence, and a willingness to perform redundant tasks. And once you identify some quirk... you have to try to repeat the error by some identifiable procedure that can also be reproduced by the programmer.
This is not the case here. It's like a cat and mouse chase. Once in awhile we see the little critter, then she's gone. Only to reappear when you least expect it.
This is a tough nut to crack.
Regards,
Joe H
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There have been over 7900 views of the thread. If this is "normal", why aren't more people posting stating that they had this experience with the S950 or are experiencing the same issues with the [A] - [J] buttons on their S970 or S770? ??? ??? ???
My previous comment had to do with the above quote by you and not the technical issue itself. Believe me when I say, I'm familiar with the testing process we are both used to performing. I just think that the majority of keyboard players fall into the category of "I don't want to be bothered with this issue" and go on about their business of playing the keyboard.
On behalf of the members here, thank you for your persistence and diligence concerning this matter. I, too, hope that Yamaha is listening.
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:D Perhaps Yamaha is using us as their beta-testers. It wouldn't be the first time. I recall some PSR keyboards having issues with their displays. And, as I've mentioned, I recall a whole slew of Yamaha digital pianos where the keys would break at the pivot, inducing Yamaha to replace the whole keybed for people, whether under warranty or not.
Having said all of that, I'm happy with my new S770. But I'm well aware of the manufacturer's desire to produce these keyboards with as much power as possible (bells and whistles to keep us happy) while keeping production costs low and profits high. It's always a balancing act for them. And it's a risk for us when we "upgrade", which usually has pros and cons to it. In many ways, I miss my old PSR3000, though it is certainly now obsolete and way behind the cutting edge of what these newest arrangers can do.
In my experiences, I was always pressing the middle of the button. Perhaps this is part of the problem. But I still think it is an issue that Yamaha should address. We may only be a few of the 50000 that have bought these keyboards, but many of us who love them faithfully upgrade every couple of years when the newest models come out. That should count for something. Something more than being a beta-tester.
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Roger:
Yes I think your right, and the majority tend to ignore this small annoyance, my neighbour for example has one registration bank set up, all with various church organ voices, because being a church minister that's his main use for his 770 and I doubt he get 25% out of his 770 which it's capable of giving, I don't think I've ever heard him play many other voices, organ and occasional piano and that's about it. He certainly wasn't too bothered when I pointed this issue of exiting out of the voice category screen, he assumed it was supposed to do that.
billmc:
Do you find it helps if you do press the raised outside part of the button on your 770 ? IOW does it mainly occur when pressed in the centre, which is certainly the case with the ones I've had, though my first one would still do it occasionally if pressed on the high spot, but on this 2nd 970, if I press on the outside of the button it's fine.
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I doubt this has anything with this issue, but it's just a thought, which is relative to our land surveying business. We've owned a myriad of various electronic devices over the years, which interface with computers, robotic totals stations and data collectors. Many of these devices had buttons that were a four-way toggle (left, right, up, down) and some were even a five way toggle adding the center of the button to the selection process. Every direction toggled a different function and message sent or received from the device.
Now, having said that, many times only a few of these toggles were active and the other directions were supposed to do absolutely nothing. The manufacturer simply built the device and that particular button for future use. These buttons have been known to activate an entirely different message sent or received than intended, even though they were supposed to be disabled. We then reported the problem and shortly thereafter received a firmware upgrade from the manufacturer.
I just thought I'd throw that in the mix for what it's worth. Probably not much use, but a shot in the dark.
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Roger,
You must be reading my mind (or the other way around). I'm going to send an "official report" to the tech support guy I started with (and copied to Steve Deming). My intent is tell ****** what we know and have experienced and ask that he forward this information to Japan.
Sound like a plan? :)
Joe H
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Hi Joe,
Yes, it definitely sounds like a very good plan to me. Please keep us updated with your findings, as I'm sure you will.
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I have send my PSR-s970 to yamaha serwis (M. Ostrowski Sp. J. al. Armii Krajowej 5, 50-541 Wrocław tel. +48 71 79 74 605 email: serwis@muzyczny.pl http://muzyczny.pl in Poland).
Today my instrument come bac and THEY do nothing - they say that everything is ok. That this model (psr-s970) just have that and that they cant do nothing with this.
"The described occurrence is occasionally appearing at naciścnięciu of button in his lowermost part, it isn't the defect but the feature of this model which doesn't influence acting at the correct use of the button. The instrument stayed thoroughly tested and is truly efficient."
Instrument come back in unorginal paper and scratched casing.
I didn't accept the instrument and I sent him again.
Can you tell me what i can do whit this ?
(http://www.dynamicband.info/yam/y1.JPG)
(http://www.dynamicband.info/yam/y2.JPG)
(http://www.dynamicband.info/yam/y3.JPG)
(http://www.dynamicband.info/yam/y4.JPG)
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szwarc,
My concern has been that if a keyboard is taken to a Yamaha Service Center for testing and the buttons work OK during the Diagnostic Test... then we will be told that nothing is wrong with the keyboard. And this is what has happened to you.
Now you have a keyboard that is scratched. I suggest you file a complaint with your dealer, and Yamaha Tech Support and demand a replacement keyboard.
I am working on sending detailed information to Yamaha about all of our concerns including your report (but without any names). It appears that Yamaha has chosen to not find a fix for this problem. when the screen EXITS to a previous screen or the Main Screen when you do not want it to... this is not "normal" and is NOT a "feature" of the keyboard. >:(
I'm going to make one last effort and make an appeal to Yamaha to fix this problem, and will share that information here.
Joe H
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szwarc.
As Joe stated, I would most definitely be complaining quite loudly, if I had sent a keyboard away for repair and it came back in that condition I would be demanding a new replacement. That is really shameful of Yamaha Service and does not inspire much confidence in them does it, and to not fix the problem either truly beggars belief. >:( Did you check serial number to ensure its the same keyboard you sent them.?
After seeing how Yamaha treats your keyboard if it ever has to go back for repair, as shown in pictures above and with my experience with these A-E/F-J buttons on my 970 which is compounded by Yamaha UK's lack of willingness to admit there's a button issue on some of these models, instead they suggest we press them on the high spot of the button only, they will then work >:( I for one am quickly losing any confidence I ever had in their products. TBH I suspect this 970 will likely be my LAST Yamaha keyboard purchase, as out of 4 Yamaha keyboards purchased by myself since early last year only one was 100% perfect, all the other three had issues.
The PSR-S443 I bought my granddaughter worked perfectly, a 670 I bought myself was damaged on arrival, badly chipped on the front, with a Keybed thats was so poor it's keys were catching each other, so that went straight back. the new T5 the 61 key version I bought lasted 3 days before the power supply board packed up rendering the keyboard dead, so that went back, my 970 works okay except for this A-E/F-J button problem. IOW out of 4 brand new Yamaha keyboards only one was perfect, which happened to be the cheapest one, all the other 3 new ones all had issues, which is a 25% success rate, what confidence I had in Yamaha's keyboards is quickly disappearing. :(
I translated it from Polish, the Yamaha Service Report above is basically saying there is no defect, but it's a normal feature of these particular model keyboards when you press in the the lower/centre part of the buttons, so there you have it, there's nothing wrong at all, we are just imagining it, ;) It's normal for it to exit out of the voice category screen on it's own. >:(
Truly unbelievable. :( If they want another video showing the problem, I'd be happy to provide one, as I can replicate the issue quite easily by pressing them in the centre or lower part of the button.
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Textbook, I loaded quite a few songs tonight (about 20 page-tabs worth) and pressed on the high side of the A-J buttons. Doing this, my keyboard never backed out of the Song menu back to the Main menu. But this doesn't convince me that there is not a problem. I agree with Joe who said that the keyboard should never leave a screen unless it is prompted to do so.
I'm an electronic technician by occupation and I would much prefer a hard failure than something like this that is illusive and intermittent. I know what it is like for a customer to complain that their unit is not working correctly and I can't get it to fail on my bench. In such cases (and in my field), we often subjected the complained-about units to vibration tests, heat tests, cold tests, and endurance tests to try to force them to fail at our facility. We weren't always successful. And there were times when we gave some customers a brand new unit. But based on what this thread says, I doubt a brand new unit would "cure" my particular problem. IMO, even if it is a matter of where on the button it is pushed, it is still a design failure and Yamaha should make it right, at least for the customers who complain about it.
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billmc.
I agree, if they are pressed on the high point of the buttons mine generally works fine too, and that basically is what Yamaha are saying, and in their opinion it's merely a feature of these Yamaha keyboards, even though it would seem this feature was not added to ALL 970/770 models...lol
So in the event we ever sell them, we just have to tell the purchaser, to always press the button on the outside high point of the buttons, it works fine, it's not faulty, it's a feature of these boards so nothing to worry about....because Yamaha said so.. which should allay any fears the purchaser might have.... would it convince any potential buyer ?...I think not. :(
The fact is no matter how you paint it, the **** things have button faults. :o
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The instrument was sent again for the service, I didn't collect him including standing. I think, that of button A-J they are out of order correctly and it is certainly the defect in the instrument rather than the feature. If was it is a feature there would be any description about it in the instruction.
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https://youtu.be/eoq0859RTIY (https://youtu.be/eoq0859RTIY)
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The instrument was sent again for the service, I didn't collect him including standing. I think, that of button A-J they are out of order correctly and it is certainly the defect in the instrument rather than the feature. If was it is a feature there would be any description about it in the instruction.
Hi, many thanks for your video link, which is very helpful:
https://youtu.be/eoq0859RTIY
The intro text of your video says:
"wada występująca w instrumentach YAMAHA PSR-S970. Próbuję ją zareklamować ale firma Yamaha broni się i twierdzi, że jest to cecha a nie wada."
used an online translator: Frequent defect occurring in the instruments YAMAHA PSR - S970 /S770. I'm trying to advertise it but Yamaha defence says it is a feature and not a defect.
(the addition of S770 is mine, since both models share this :-\ feature).
regards, Jack
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et al,
OK... here is what I have done. I sent another email to Steve Deming at Yamaha USA. It is a synopsis of all we have discussed here with excerpts from 71 posts highlighting our concerns and assessments of what the problem is and how to fix it.
I reproduce the email message to Steve below:
"Steve,
I said in my last email to you I wasn't going to bother you anymore regarding the erratic button issue on the PSR S770 and PSR S970 arranger keyboards, but I feel compelled to do so because the responses keyboard owners are receiving from Yamaha dealers and Tech Support that are having a negative impact on the PSR community.
There have been 225 posts and nearly 8500 views of the discussion regarding this button malfunction as of today 3-3-16.
Yamaha is making two statements that contradict one another:
1."There have been no reports of the problem"
2. "This is normal operation and a feature of the keyboard"
Here's what we know:
1. The erratic and unpredictable exiting out of the current screen we are working in is NOT "Normal"
2. The erratic and unpredictable exiting out of the current screen we are working in is NOT a feature of the PSR arranger.
3. The button problem exists with ALL versions of firmware
4. Doing a re-install of the firmware helps reduce the problem, but doesn't eliminate it
5. Doing a System Reset helps reduce the problem, but doesn't eliminate it
6. Changing the Voice Selection option in Config2 to OPEN ONLY helps reduce the problem, but does not eliminate it
7. Knowledgeable and credible people with programming and beta testing experience understand there is a problem and that it can be fixed
Here's what else we know:
8. People are becoming concerned and even angry with Yamaha for not taking this hardware/software problem serious
9. People are loosing confidence in Yamaha as a company
10. People are concerned about the resale value of their keyboard with malfunctioning buttons
11. Some people have, or are considering returning their keyboards
12. Some people are abandoning the idea of buy a Yamaha keyboard and purchasing another brand
If I knew of someone else at Yamaha who could address this problem directly I would do that. I know you have forwarded my previous correspondence, and appreciate that very much. We hope Yamaha gets serious about fixing the problem. And yes... there is a problem and it is fixable.
I've read the published statements from the President of Yamaha Corporation, and the company's philosophy. The President promotes integrity within the company and dedication to producing the highest quality products. I would hope (and I'm not referring to you in this case) Yamaha personnel would heed his advice.
http://www.yamaha.com/about_yamaha/corporate/message/index.html (http://www.yamaha.com/about_yamaha/corporate/message/index.html)
Below are excerpts from 71 post on the PSR Tutorial Forum as of March 3, 2016
Please forward this latest information to whomever has the authority and willingness address this serious problem
Regards,
Joe Hlifka"
[the 71 excerpts , excluding any names or member IDs followed my above message]
I don't know what else I can do at this point. ???
Joe H
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You are doing your best Joe, which I can assure you is greatly appreciated by all of us suffering this button problem.
I do think more Youtube videos might help, and so to further illustrate the button problem on these keyboards I too will also upload one to Youtube over the next few days, in English of course, I might also upload one in French.
However I will video my neighbours 770, which suffers from this problem terribly, his 770 is far worse than my first 970, on his 770 board it does it all the time, if one can manage 3 presses of the buttons without exiting to the main screen your lucky. If it had been mine it would have gone back ages ago, but initially he didn't seem overly bothered, though I think even he is getting rather annoyed by it now, especially since I showed him how to set up multiple registration banks, so he's been doing more button pressing just lately.
Thanks again Joe.
Cameron
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Thank you, Joe, for your undying, unwavering and persistent commitment to the members here.
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Roger,
The best any of us can do is speak the truth... and stand up for what is right.
;)
Joe H
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Hi Joe,
You and I share the same philosophy in this regard. There is no other way we should approach anything that confronts us in our lives.
Thank you, once again!
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Thanks Joe for your efforts.
So far I have not experienced this but I am watching this thread closely. I am pleased with the 970 so far the only complaint is the keyboard bed is clunky compared to some of the other models maybe that's to make it more piano like.
Regards
Ed B
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Ed B,
Thank you for your comment. What makes this issue so difficult is that only a limited number of keyboards are effected, which suggests it is a hardware problem.
But the real mystery lies in the FACT that reinstalling the current firmware and System Reset mitigate this unpredictable button behavior. If it was strictly a hardware issue... I believe reinstalling the OS firmware or a System Reset would make NO difference at all.
It is baffling that many keyboards do not exhibit the button problem at all, and some are minimal, and yet there are others that are rather extreme with the button problem. ???
Joe H
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Hi Joe,
I've been trying to deduce everything I have been following in this thread. I'm sure that Yamaha keeps a record of what employee assembled and inspected each keyboard as well as what batch of parts were used in the construction of each individual keyboard also.
So here's another shot in the dark. Could this problem be traced to faulty workmanship in the assembly process by an employee or a group of employees and further, could this problem be related to a faulty batch of parts used on the affected keyboards?
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That's amazing Joe.
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et al,
I received a reply from Steve Deming at Yamaha USA. He called me on the phone and we talked for about 20 minutes. I think he may have been put off a little by my email. He had told me before that Yamaha Engineers in Japan were aware of the button problem. He reiterated that assertion today. So... they are working on it!
He made a point to say that he has no control over the lack of information or misinformation from dealers or Yamaha repair centers in the USA or other countries. He suggested we just RELAX and wait. Don't bother taking your keyboard in for repairs... as my local repair guy said to ME... no repair bulletin has been issued, so therefore NO Yamaha Repair Center will know anything about the problem or how to fix it... yet.
I told him what I have done and how it improved my keyboard. He said... that may BE the fix for all we know. They may say there is nothing wrong... just re-install the firmware, or there may be a firmware fix. All we can do is wait.
So I will again suggest to all who have the button problem. Re-install your v1.04 firmware, then do a System Reset by holding down the right-most white key and power ON your keyboard. You may also try setting the Voice select option to OPEN ONLY in Config2.
As far as I'm concerned... I'm going to enjoy my S970 keyboard. The button problem is so minimal after doing the re-install firmware and Reset procedure that I am going to let the issue rest.
The dealers know nothing, the repair centers know nothing; so don't spend anymore time on them. Sooner or later we will hear from Yamaha.
Maybe the Moderator should lock this thread. There is nothing more any of us can contribute. Yamaha has heard us. AND... there is nothing more to complain about at this point.
Time to go play some music!
8)
Cheers,
Joe H
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Thanks Joe for the update, and indeed I want to thank you for your persistence with this button problem, and understand your desire to get back to some playing, I can see you feel your've taken it as far as possible. Which is understandable.. so a big thanks for your persistence and contributions in this thread to date Joe, your efforts have been much appreciated.
However, I don't think the topic should be closed, as others are still reporting the problem as seen by the 2 or 3 new members posts in this thread recently, otherwise members who find they have the problem will simply be starting new topics highlighting the problem. So I think it's better if everything relating to this button problem is kept in this one thread. :)
I certainly think it's a little premature to be thinking about closing it, people that don't have the problem don't have to read it, but there are still a few of us who still need a thread where we can share information and make suggestions which may or may not help. Indeed our recent discovery about re-installing the firmware which seems to help shows there's still a need for this thread to continue, if only to share information on this button problem as the issue certainly hasn't gone away, as there are 19 individual users just in this thread who have reported button issues, plus I know of 4 others, in fact I believe there are lots more out there with this issue....ooops..sorry...I mean feature..lol
What do other members with this problem feel ? Do you think this thread should be closed or continue ?
For myself, I'm quite happy to take it forward, as I too can also be quite persistent. When I get chance I may open up my 970 and take a look at those buttons, maybe I can learn something, or maybe not, and take a few pics. I'm certainly not too concerned about voiding the warranty.
Cameron
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HI Cameron,
I think Yamaha has failed in one regard... they could have issued a memo to ALL dealers and Service Centers around the world letting them know Engineers in Japan have received reports of the button problem and are investigating the problem. That should be an easy thing to do. Steve could also have posted here himself or directed someone else to do so and state publicly "on the record" what he told me on the phone privately. This is a no brainer.
I have no arguments with continuing this thread. Steve DID also say that if he hears anything new regarding the button problem he will personally let me know. But why not come on this Forum and post the info for everyone to read?
I am playing my keyboard and really liking it. I'm working on a new arrangement using the arpeggiator and LIVE CONTROL knobs. I just love my new keyboard!
8)
Joe H
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Hi all interested users.
All below is entirely my personal opinion:
I think it would be a mistake to close this topic for the following reasons:
1: Any future reporters of the button blight issue on their PSR-S770/S970 might think their own faulty keyboard is unique in the button blight respect. They might feel aggrieved to learn later of many similar complaints.
2: Better, surely, to wait until Yamaha gives a definitive (written) acknowledgement of this issue and inform us of their plans to rectify the fault, as it seems to me that Yamaha are hoping that ignoring this problem will make it disappear.
3: Where do the Yamaha keyboard stockists stand on this issue? Have they taken the time to try the button test to all their PSR-S770/S970 models, and can now say without doubt that they are selling only the fully working models?
4: Where is Yamaha's opposite number of Mike Martin of Casio, who would have rolled back his sleeves, come online, and sorted this problem in the first instance, rather that seeing it creep into the multiple thousand reads?
5: This topic's heading will be familiar to all regular members by now, so anyone who wishes to avoid it knows not to click on it.
Many thanks to our own Joe H for bearing the stress of keeping this issue going. Thanks also to Joe W..... who runs this great Yamaha PSR Tutorial forum.
Seems to me that the big fix for the buttons problem is a way off, (maybe even not coming at all). I have just acquired a pre-owned Yamaha PSR-E433 for the time being as another PRS-S770 costs too much money to risk getting stuck with one of the runts of the PSR-S770 litter.
Consider this: should you try to sell your treasured PSR-S770 / 970 via a popular auction site: you might now expect to be asked:
Are the A-J buttons of this instrument fully functioning with no issues?
regards, Jack
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Hi all interested users.
All below is entirely my personal opinion:
I think it would be a mistake to close this topic for the following reasons:
1: Any future reporters of the button blight issue on their PSR-S770/S970 might think their own faulty keyboard is unique in the button blight respect. They might feel aggrieved to learn later of many similar complaints.
2: Better, surely, to wait until Yamaha gives a definitive (written) acknowledgement of this issue and inform us of their plans to rectify the fault, as it seems to me that Yamaha are hoping that ignoring this problem will make it disappear.
3: Where do the Yamaha keyboard stockists stand on this issue? Have they taken the time to try the button test to all their PSR-S770/S970 models, and can now say without doubt that they are selling only the fully working models?
4: Where is Yamaha's opposite number of Mike Martin of Casio, who would have rolled back his sleeves, come online, and sorted this problem in the first instance, rather that seeing it creep into the multiple thousand reads?
5: This topic's heading will be familiar to all regular members by now, so anyone who wishes to avoid it knows not to click on it.
Many thanks to our own Joe H for bearing the stress of keeping this issue going. Thanks also to Joe W..... who runs this great Yamaha PSR Tutorial forum.
Seems to me that the big fix for the buttons problem is a way off, (maybe even not coming at all). I have just acquired a pre-owned Yamaha PSR-E433 for the time being as another PRS-S770 costs too much money to risk getting stuck with one of the runts of the PSR-S770 litter.
Consider this: should you try to sell your treasured PSR-S770 / 970 via a popular auction site: you might now expect to be asked:
Are the A-J buttons of this instrument fully functioning with no issues?
regards, Jack
Thanks dear Joe and True effort. From my opinion , until the thing sorted our by yamaha we shouldn't close the thread. The reason as you mentioned , the dealers intend to hide the real problem in the keyboard. my concern the dealer as well the Service guys not able to understand the issue what we are saying, its truly painful to prove them. As per your conversation with steve, we will wait for the firmware update . But anyhow we can wait for the other users also post their problems , if its case of different scenario.
Hi Textbook
i totally agree with your view. but selling newly bought keyboards will give lose for buyers like me! :(
Thanks
Regards
androidgalaxyman
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Let us not close the subject.
Mine keyboard is now in the service and penie won't be able to fix it.
The service claims, that is everything ok !
Services don't have no information to this subject.
Yamaha is not giving any solutions.
If I could now choose I wouldn't only buy PSR-S 970. I wil buy Korg Pa3X
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I've found another fault with my S770, unfortunately. I'm learning to play, "Waiting for a Girl Like You" by Foreigner. I'm playing it in the key of D-flat. There are times in the song when I am transitioning from Fm to Bbm and when I do, the rhythm momentarily stops, as if I had the rhythm section on "sync only." It should not do this. The rhythm should always play unless I push the Stop or Ending buttons. It is as if the keyboard does quite know how to go to the Bbm chord. So it momentarily stops and then starts again. Frustrating.
I'm going to try a few other songs, but I'm growing more and more concerned about the "overhaul" of the S-series and what Yamaha may have done or not done to it.
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billmc,
Is it just doing that with this one style, or is it happening with a song file?
Joe H
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szwarc,
We have already been told the problem is being looked at in Japan. Until Yamaha determines a fix... there is no point in taking your keyboard in for repair because Yamaha Service Centers will not find a repair bulletin on how to fix the button issue.
Re-installing the firmware and doing a system reset seems to have fixed mine by the way. :)
Joe H
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I think, around Yamaha isn't able to solve a problem. And isn't upset with us completely.
I regret, around I bought this instrument.
I intend to put around in Poland, that Yamaha isn't caring for its customers and is selling efective instruments.
How my PSR-S 970 will only come back from the service - I will sell it and I will buy KORG Pa3X
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szwarc,
Joe H wrote: "Re-installing the firmware and doing a system reset seems to have fixed mine by the way".
I still think you should give this a try.... what do you have to loose?
:)
Joe H
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Not yet I have an instrument - farther is in the service. They will be replacing the scratched casing which they destroyed - it is supposed to last till 6 weeks!! To 27 April!!
Yamaha is a company which is bashing its customers on the ***
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Would have to strongly disagree with you. It is not Yamaha themselves but the people involved with the servicing. Here in the UK we have excellent Technical support and repair service. We also don't appear to have the button problems either. I have spoken to a couple of dealers who have not heard of it.
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"I have spoken to a couple of dealers who have not heard of it. " it's funny - hahahhaha - for liar - they couldn't hear or I don't want to hear. The problem on the 100% is and bulletins are saying, around dumb these are a feature rather than a defect. They aren't upset with customers are only lying.
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Though I have not (yet) experienced this button problem, reading this thread it is sounding as if it might be a hardware AND firmware issue. Parts are made specifications regarding measured tolerances. That means that there will be at least some variance among the same parts as to how they function. With buttons, there is a certain amount of "bounce" when they are pressed and before they settle. Usually, there is a "debouncing" circuit associated with the input of the button signal to the circuit board, along with some simple debouncing code in the firmware to determine if the button press that was detected is real. This involves detecting the initial press signal and then waiting to see if any others follow. There is timing involved in how long to wait for any following press signals, and that timing is crucial to triggering properly in response to the button press. It may be that the timing of this algorithm is not sufficient to account for variances in the parts themselves. It also might be that, since this is a relatively low cost product (in the grand scheme of manufactured things of this nature), there may be no debouncing circuitry, so that the firmware alone must do it all. In that case, the timing of the debounce algorithm is even more critical.
Yamaha's choices seem to be to either use more expensive buttons (i.e. less "slop" in the trigger signal of a press) and/or rework the debounce algorithm in the firmware to accommodate the variances among the buttons. If they purchased a large amount of these buttons (i.e. if they are not using just in time manufacturing procurement), then they either would need to negotiate a return of these to their vendor or "eat" the problem cost and either continue to use them as is in their products or replace them with higher quality buttons.
In either case, I believe the firmware debounce algorithm will most likely need to be adjusted. That would certainly be the most cost effective and easiest solution all around.
Tony
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Would have to strongly disagree with you. It is not Yamaha themselves but the people involved with the servicing. Here in the UK we have excellent Technical support and repair service. We also don't appear to have the button problems either. I have spoken to a couple of dealers who have not heard of it.
The reality is one only finds out how good any service department is when you actually need to send your instrument back to them for repair. Yamaha Support staff wherever they are located represent Yamaha themselves, which is why they are very cautous in not admitting there's a fault whenever one speaks to them on the phone. The tech support gentlemen I spoke to 3 different times at Yamaha UK since last October all said they are aware of this erratic key behaviour on some 770/970 keyboards, and said you simply need to press the buttons on the outside (high point), and they work fine...in the meantime they assured me they were looking into the issue.
We most definitely do have this button issue on some keyboards in the UK, as you know yourself Eileen both I and Happy Jack who returned his 770 plus my neighbour are obviously in the UK, or at least we were the last time I looked, ;) plus a very large retailer in York, and you can guess who I mean has had 5 customers report the problem and I was told that quite some time ago by one of their staff, plus another dealer in Burton on Trent has also had complaints from a few customers regarding the buttons and has returned 3 boards to Yamaha for this problem.
I'm happy to name those 2 large dealers if you wish. Plus there is one local dealer who is aware of the issue because I demonstrated it to him on 2 keyboards they had in their showroom, so to say no UK dealers are aware is incorrect.
Also the original poster who started this thread is in the UK and had 2 boards changed for this issue, just because you don't have the issue as I stated previously to you Eileen, does not mean it does not exist, as some boards are definitely affected, even here in the UK, I can only assume the number of boards affected are quite small...I honestly don't know.
My own 970 like Joe.H's 970 is currently not doing it quite so often at present, does that mean all of a sudden the problem has disappeared entirely for everyone else that have the issue ? of course not. At the moment I can live with it, in fact I suspect this will remain a minor flaw on this 970 keyboard until such time I get rid of it, but it's not impacting my use or enjoyment of my 970 very much at the moment so like Joe it's something I'm tolerating and hoping that Yamaha at some point will acknowledge and put right in due course....fingers xxx. A view shared by others with the issue I suspect. In conclusion I like my 970, I think it's excellent other that this odd A-E/F/J button issue where it exits back to the main menu, albeit in my case not so frequently as it once did thanks to constructive help from other users like Joe.H who have experienced the issue themselves, and have shared information, so a big thanks to all those members who have shared information in this thread.
Best wishes.... Cameron
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Hi Cameron,
I did not say all dealers I said a couple I have spoken to. I had one of the first keyboards in the country and updated the OS as soon as it came out and after much button pushing which I use whilst playing live and editing Styles etc can honestly say I have never had a problem. I do use centre or high part of the button and it always works. Of course if you accidentally press twice it will go back to the home page as this is a short cut on most Yamaha keyboards. I hope something gets sorted for you all.
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The reality is one only finds out how good any service department is when you actually need to send your instrument back to them for repair. Yamaha Support staff wherever they are located represent Yamaha themselves, which is why they are very cautous in not admitting there's a fault whenever one speaks to them on the phone. The tech support gentlemen I spoke to 3 different times at Yamaha UK since last October all said they are aware of this erratic key behaviour on some 770/970 keyboards, and said you simply need to press the buttons on the outside (high point), and they work fine...in the meantime they assured me they were looking into the issue.
We most definitely do have this button issue on some keyboards in the UK, and to state we don't is silly, as you know yourself Eileen both I and Happy Jack who returned his 770 plus my neighbour are obviously in the UK, or at least we were the last time I looked, ;) plus a very large retailer in York, and you can guess who I mean has had 5 customers report the problem and I was told that quite some time ago by one of their staff, plus another dealer in Burton on Trent has also had complaints from a few customers regarding the buttons and has returned 3 boards to Yamaha for this problem.
I'm happy to name those 2 large dealers if you wish. Plus there is one local dealer in Worcester who is aware of the issue because I demonstrated it to him on 2 keyboards they had in their showroom, so to say no UK dealers are aware is not true.
Also the original poster who started this thread is in the UK and had 2 boards changed for this issue, as did I, just because you don't have the issue as I stated previously to you Eileen, does not mean it does not exist. I personally have no friends or connections at Yamaha whatsoever, therefore my opinion on this subject of some faulty buttons on 770 and 970 models is totally unbiased. I have no personal loyalties to Yamaha other than I have liked their instruments for years, same equally applies to Casio and Korg.
My own 970 like Joe.H's 970 is currently not doing it quite so often at present, does that mean all of a sudden the problem has disappeared entirely for everyone else that have the issue ? of course not. At the moment I can live with it, in fact I suspect this will remain a minor flaw on this 970 keyboard until such time I get rid of it, but it's not impacting my use or enjoyment of my 970 very much at the moment so like Joe it's something I'm tolerating and hoping that Yamaha at some point will acknowledge and put right in due course....fingers xxx. A view shared by others with the issue I suspect. In conclusion I like my 970, but it's not 100% perfect it does have the odd A-E/F/J button issue where it exits back to the main menu, albeit currently not so frequently as it once did thanks to constructive help from other users like Joe.H who have experienced the issue themselves, and have shared information, so a big thanks to all those members who have shared information in this thread.
Best wishes.... Cameron
Thank-you for your summary. Some eloquent contributions to this thread of late.
;D I recommend wearing a crash helmet when banging your head against this brick wall of an issue: I mean that some folk here will NEVER admit that Yamaha is other than practically perfect in every way. :)
Might even nominate them for a minor part in a remake of the Truman Show movie (1998) :)
Hoped this button blight problem would have been sorted by now.
There are other Arranger brands to choose from, of course, for the near-equivalent price of a PSR-S770: Roland, Korg, and now Casio. But would prefer to stay with the Yamaha after getting comfortable with this way of working.
So Yamaha, get it sorted.
cheers to all
Jack
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It is a bit frustrating to have to endure this button issue for some folks here who maybe did not get any relief from a re-install of the firmware or a System Reset (or maybe they never bothered to try those things... I don't know)
But calling Yamaha Dealers and Service technicians 'liars" is a bit over the top and serves no constructive purpose. The truth is they don't know anything because Yamaha hasn't issued a service bulletin.
I have been told twice now and reassured twice now that Yamaha engineers in Japan are aware of the problem and looking at it. I was also told these things take time to get it right.
Think about it... what would YOU do if you have built thousands of keyboards and some (maybe just a few) had a problem? How would you go about it? You would have to find out how many, where they were made, who supplied the switches or circuit boards, not to mention why does reinstalling the firmware help, or doing a System reset help? And maybe this doesn't work for everyone (does anyone know the answer to that?)
They can't just "wing their way through this situation". They have to find some real answers... then they can act.
Just my 2 cents worth.
;)
Joe H
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Hi Joe,
I wholeheartedly agree with you in your assessment of this situation.
But calling Yamaha Dealers and Service technicians 'liars" is a bit over the top and serves no constructive purpose. The truth is they don't know anything because Yamaha hasn't issued a service bulletin.
Everyone knows that I don't own this keyboard, but I have been following this thread with great interest. Calling someone a "liar" is never a good thing. Stating it verbally is one thing, but putting it in writing is certainly not well thought out from a legal standpoint. I would suggest that everyone follows Joe's lead and just wait for Yamaha to respond to this situation in due time. And by all means, please tone the language down and just state your issue without making accusations that you can't prove.
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I've decided to treat this automatic exiting to the main screen even when pressed just once as a special Yamaha bonus feature, my own 970 is working well and have accepted this issue will likely remain on it until I dispose of it. I assume Joe and Roger's comments are likely referring to the post made by szwarc. If it was something in my own post, then I apologise.
Nonetheless, I've decided in the interest of maintaining good harmony on this excellent forum this is my LAST post in this thread. :'(
I hope you guys with this Yamaha button issue/feature get it sorted eventually.. :)
I take this opportunity to wish everyone on the forum all the very best wishes. :)
As Joe recently stated himself, it's time for me also to get back to playing more. 8) I don't have enough hours in the day as it is, hence why I'm still working at 4.45am, and indeed it's not uncommon for me to have the odd all night sessions ;) Maybe the wife's right I must be crazy...lol. The 970 is still a excellent keyboard even with this little issue, but hopefully at some point in the future I look forward to reading that Yamaha have come up with some sort of a fix, fingers xxx anyway.
Eileen:
My apologies for the mis-understanding, as you did indeed state you had spoken to a couple of dealers only. It's obvious that many dealers, and likely some other owners too I suspect are not aware of the issue, as it's so obscure, and varies a lot even between afflicted boards. AIS previously, if I press on the high point of the button my 970 is perfect, yet that doesn't seem to make much difference on my neighbours 770... which suffers very badly with this button issue...very strange.
Best wishes.... Cameron
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Cameron,
Yes.. I was referring to szwarc's comment.
You my friend... are an asset to this Forum and a positive contributor to this tread. So don't go too far away.
;)
Joe H
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Hi Cameron,
Yes, I too was referring to Szwarc's comment in my post. You and I have been friends for too long to have issues with one another.
I definitely share in Joe's opinion of you and your contributions here. Please don't wander far, as your well thought out input is sorely needed in this continuing saga, as well in many other areas of this wonderful forum.
Have a great day, Cameron, and please say hi to Ann for me. Just say; The crazy guy from across the pond said hello to you. I'm positive she will know who you mean. LOL!!!
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My service in Poland (M. Ostrowski SP. J. al. Armii Krajowej 5, 50-541 Wrocław tel. +48 71 79 74 605 email: serwis@muzyczny.pl) says that the button problem doesent exist, that is a feature not a defect. I send them detailed description and recorded film, I showed them this subject on the forum.
They sey that everything is all right.
They destroyed my instrument, they scratched the casing.
(http://www.dynamicband.info/yam/y2.JPG)
(http://www.dynamicband.info/yam/y3.JPG)
Now i must wait for a 7 weeks that they will replace the casing.
The instrument (button problem) won't be fixed.
I bought the new instrument, if has a defect (button problem), should be repaired or they should replace the instrument. A guarantee consists in it.
If Yamaha is selling defected instruments - now Yamaha should be pay for it.
What concerns me it, that now they have a problem ?!
I want to have a truly efficient instrument for which I paid.
Meanwhile service in Poland is not caring about the customer. They are saying, around these are a feature rather than a defect.
So i say that they are liers !
Never again I will buy Yamaha. And my PSR-S970 I will sell right away as soon as comes back from the service.
For everyone in POLAND I will tell , that they never to buy instruments of the company Yamaha because this company isn't caring for its customers.
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Joe, I spoke with a Yamaha support representative about my own S770, especially the rhythm problem. It seemed to do it at random and I couldn't ever find a particular chord transition that made the beat stop every time. Intermittents are always frustrating! But I did do a soft reset on the instrument (holding down top key while turning on) and the rhythm was fine after that (during 6 hours of play). The representative seemed to think that the MIDI Map (whatever that is, ha ha) was not set correctly in my S770 and that, therefore, it occasionally wasn't sure what to do with the chords I was pressing. Resetting the instrument, obviously, reset it back to factory conditions and this, perhaps, solved the problem. But I don't know for sure because it was an intermittent.
The representative didn't know any more about the button issue than what you have already shared. I know you are, for all intents and purposes, an expert on these keyboards, but I just don't see how reinstalling the firmware (which is a series of 0's and 1's) multiple times could fix this problem. I would sooner suspect that continuous operating of these buttons causes them to "contact" or "seat" better. But that is just my opinion.
In the end, I decided to return the keyboard, mainly because I have no idea if or how long it will take for Yamaha to address the button issue. Others may live with it. That is each person's choice. But I didn't want a $1300 instrument with a problem that the manufacturer knows about but has no resolution for. Yes, I realize this may take time. But I also am aware that EVERY manufacturer wants to build their products as inexpensively as they can to have the most profit that they can. My S770 was Made in China. Remember when they came from Japan? :)
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Anybody have a contact (e-mail) to President and Representative Director or main world Yamaha contact.
I would like to send him my own message and tell him about - how service in Poland works.
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biilmc,
Thanks for sharing your experience.
You wrote: "I would sooner suspect that continuous operating of these buttons causes them to "contact" or "seat" better"
In my case, after doing a System Reset the improvement was instantaneous, as was with my brother who also bought an S970 and whos keyboard serial number is one value higher than mine (his came off the assembly line right behind mine).
As I have already stated (at least a couple of times) I'm inclined to think there is a problem with the firmware installer program or a bug in the OS installer. If these software actions (reset and firmware install) are having a positive affect on the button operation then I believe there is a software fix.
BTW... there is NO more (physical) play in the [A] - [J] buttons than any other buttons on the Panel. At least 3 people have now posted suggesting the problem can be corrected with timing code. I suspect they are right.
Joe H
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Anybody have a contact (e-mail) to President and Representative Director or main world Yamaha contact.
I would like to send him my own message and tell him about - how service in Poland works.
You can contact him here: http://emailtheboss.org/executives/takuya-nakata-president-and-representative-director-yamaha-corporation/ (http://emailtheboss.org/executives/takuya-nakata-president-and-representative-director-yamaha-corporation/)
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You can contact him here: http://emailtheboss.org/executives/takuya-nakata-president-and-representative-director-yamaha-corporation/ (http://emailtheboss.org/executives/takuya-nakata-president-and-representative-director-yamaha-corporation/)
Thank-you, oldfarm42, for your informative post and for lending a hand to a fellow member.
My approach is likewise: Better to aim high and let the goodness trickle down, eh. 8)
cheers, Jack
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Hey all happy Yammy Lovers,
Are you staying up late / rising early to view the Comet?
No, not the Comet Hale–Bopp; that won't be back in our solar system until around year 4385.
But stick around here on PSRTUTORIAL and be sure to mark this astronomical event.
See bad button Comet:
Yamma-Badda-Button-Bopp streak past 10, 000 hits!
and still going ...
and going...
and going...
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Maybe Yamaha will be working for 2 years on with problem of buttons, for as far as customers guarantees will end - hahahahaha
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The firmware update v1.05 released today does appear to help with this button issue, at least that's what my initial tests would suggest on 2 keyboards I've installed it on, my own 970 and a friends 770.
However, it has not cured my neighbours 770 completely, but where previously we were lucky to press those buttons 3 or 4 times on his 770 before it exited, we found after updating the firmware it was possible to press them 30 or more times before it did it, so a good improvement as his 770 suffered really badly with this A-E/F-J button issue.
Tests I've done on my own 970 would suggest it's pretty much been eradicated, :) in fact during lots of button bashing I've given it since installing today's new 1.05 update it only exited once, and that was when pressing the low part of the button and TBH I can live with that. If I press it normally it seems fine, it never exits, it certainly seems better than it was previously. :)
Cameron
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The firmware update v1.05 released today does appear to help with this button issue, at least that's what my initial tests would suggest on 2 keyboards I've installed it on, my own 970 and a friends 770.
However, it has not cured my neighbours 770 completely, but where previously we were lucky to press those buttons 3 or 4 times on his 770 before it exited, we found after updating the firmware it was possible to press them 30 or more times before it did it, so a good improvement as his 770 suffered really badly with this A-E/F-J button issue.
Tests I've done on my own 970 would suggest it's pretty much been eradicated, :) in fact during lots of button bashing I've given it since installing today's new 1.05 update it only exited once, and that was when pressing the low part of the button and TBH I can live with that. If I press it normally it seems fine, it never exits, it certainly seems better than it was previously. :)
Cameron
That is good to hear (read). I provided a description of this type of problem, based on my years in engineering and dealing with button press detection issues. It may well be that Yamaha has done what they can without actually replacing the buttons with better quality. If those who have been seeing this problem can live with that, then maybe they can now enjoy their keyboards. Maybe others will weigh in as they do the upgrade. It sounds promising. :)
Tony
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Cameron,
Question: On the S770 that suffered serious buttons problems, did you by any chance try the System Reset thing by holding down the right-most white key while powering on the keyboard? This helped with my board before the v1.05 update.
Like you, it appears the update fixed my button problem completely. I'm going to test a couple more times before I give my official feedback to Steve Deming at Yamaha. In his email to me today he states he sees a noticeable improvement with his own testing, and asked for my feedback.
8)
Joe H
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Yes I did try resetting using the rightmost key Joe, in fact I tried this on his 770 a couple weeks ago just to see if it might help, but sadly made little difference to his. His 770 is actually much worse than the 1st one I returned and had changed, he's not overly concerned at all however. The fact this firmware version seems to have noticeably improved it is at least something, but in view of how frequent his 770 exited previously leads me to think that perhaps his may likely have a hardware issue, but like I said, he's not bothered at all, at least it's a lot better than it was.
As for my own, it's early days but it seems to be working perfectly. The thing is, I could actually see more of a improvement on his 770 than I could on my own 970, simply because his was so bad in the first place, while my own was very minor with just the odd exit back out which had almost remedied itself anyway by doing the firmware install and resetting it.
Best wishes...Cameron
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Thanks for the reply. Sounds like you and I have had just about identical experiences with our own S970s.
I notice the firmware update for the Tyros 5 also made mention of the button issue. That's a curious bit of info!
Cheers,
Joe H
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Cameron,
Question: On the S770 that suffered serious buttons problems, did you by any chance try the System Reset thing by holding down the right-most white key while powering on the keyboard? This helped with my board before the v1.05 update.
Like you, it appears the update fixed my button problem completely. I'm going to test a couple more times before I give my official feedback to Steve Deming at Yamaha. In his email to me today he states he sees a noticeable improvement with his own testing, and asked for my feedback.
8)
Joe H
Hi there,
So Joe, this recent software upgrade, whilst affording some improvement on a couple of affected keyboards, is not yet a cure-all? Still, am glad to hear that your own keyboard is now clear of the button blight.
Beware the previous 'false dawn' episode, when it was suggested (perhaps you yourself suggested it) to close this topic down, nothing more to be gained... etc?
Anyone here rushing for closure? I hope not, because the Fat lady is yet to sing.
Need lots of keyboard owners to do the upgrade and perform 'button test' thing, so too early to generalise.
Joe, with respect, but what do you mean by this:
"before I give my official feedback to Steve Deming at Yamaha."
I know of your tireless efforts to share information regards this bad button issue, but on whose behalf are you officiating? ;D
best regards
Jack
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Not to worry Jack,
(thanks for the question)
My official feedback to Steve will be regarding my own experience I can't speak for others and will emphasize that point. I will obviously relate the fact that a reasonable time is needed for reports back to Yamaha and also that not everyone is realizing a fix. That's why I asked Cameron about the S770. It appears that at least some of the S770s are not positively affected in an equal manner by the v1.05 update.
As I have stated above (somewhere) this is a bit baffling, but I suspect Cameron is correct (as others are) it's a hardware problem being mitigated by a firmware fix, and as he stated above, some boards have a greater (button) problem than others.
Anyone here who has had direct contact with Yamaha should report their experience to Yamaha Support. They need feedback from as many people as possible.
Cheers,
Joe H
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Thanks for the reply. Sounds like you and I have had just about identical experiences with our own S970s.
I notice the firmware update for the Tyros 5 also made mention of the button issue. That's a curious bit of info!
Cheers,
Joe H
I think we can all agree it's a little early to really tell whether any improvements noticed are indeed the effect of this firmware or just wishful thinking on our part as that's what we want to believe. IOW the old placebo effect...lol As it may simply be the act of re-installing the firmware that's giving a positive spin to it. Re. The T5 I noticed that too Joe...so yes very strange, they also had the wrong date for those T5 firmwares, as they put 16/5/2016. instead of March.
Having a suspicious nature, on downloading the update I even checked to ensure it was not a re-packaged 1.04.. ;) but the difference in file size and checksums on each file does suggest something's changed.
In conclusion, after adding a couple more registration banks this morning to give it a final test, it did not exit once, and my friend Alans 770 which I knew would be the real test has seen significant improvement.
So, if the improvement I've seen is not down to this firmware, (which for the more sceptical is certainly possible).... then I look forward to receiving more placebo firmwares...lol.....keep em coming. :)
Best wishes...Cameron
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Cameron,
"Oh ye of little faith" LOL. It's not your imagination. I'm waiting to hear from my brother who has an S970 and who has had the same degree of erratic button behavior as you and I have had.
What "appears" to be the case is that the v1.05 update has a positive affect. For those with a minor button problem it pretty much goes away, and for those with a severe button problem... they are seeing the button problem reduced.
It's still a mystery to me. I'll give it a couple more days of testing before I get back to Steve Deming. But I can only share with him my own experience and what I'm reading here from others. If people like your friend don't report their findings, Yamaha can't do anything. Taking a keyboard back to the dealer and getting a refund doesn't help either. Yamaha needs feedback. Since you are a programmer and I am a beta tester, we understand these things.
For those who choose to bash Yamaha... they will never get positive results. Good software / firmware is never developed and tested via human emotions... it's strictly a "logical" process. :D ;D
Stay tuned!
;)
Joe H
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Hi everyone!
I hope all is well in PSRTutorial land. I've been away for a while so here's my 6 pennies worth:
1. Don't forget you can run the tests as per my opening post to the thread. The videos should still be up. By running the same test on different firmware versions you will confirm if 1.05 has solved the issue for you because the screen won't exit. It doesn't matter that it is the voice screen in I use in my tests, it is just an easy way to see the fault occurring. The fault will affect all screens.
2. There appears to be two issues here:
i.) Functioning keyboards that have a larger than should be tolerance in their button movement. This means Eileen can get a perfectly functioning keyboard because the tolerance of movement in her keyboard is minimal, but Yamaha also accept a wider tolerance in the button movement that allows the double press fault due to button roll on the contact.
ii.) There are keyboards that have faulty logic boards that cause the same issue.
Keyboards fixed by the 1.05 firmware update could safely be in category i.) while the remaining keyboards would be good candidates for category ii.) which need Yamaha servicing. Any else follow my thinking here?
3. If v1.05 is supposed to fix this issue, then I think Yamaha need more detail at this point on the frequency of the double clicks if they still occur. Count the number of key presses before a fail (e.g, 1 in 30, 1 in 40 etc) for ten tests and also the button that failed. My second keyboard had a faulty circuit board where only the [H] and [J] keys were affected. Please feedback this back to Yamaha.
4. v1.05 appears to have fixed my keyboard. At least, I gave up after 200 key presses.
Kind regards,
Paul.
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I notice the firmware update for the Tyros 5 also made mention of the button issue. That's a curious bit of info!
Cheers,
Joe H
The Ty5 firmware update mentions buttons, but not "the" button issue as per this thread :o
Here's a copy:
"Fixed a problem in which updating of the display and button response would slow down when many Expansion Voices were installed in the instrument."
John
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Hey John,
Here is ther Release Notes for the PSR firmare update:
"[V1.04 to V1.05]
- Fixed a problem in which updating of the display and button response would slow down when many Expansion Voices were installed in the instrument".
Joe H
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Chronos1976 wrote:
"My second keyboard had a faulty circuit board where only the [H] and [J] keys were affected. Please feedback this back to Yamaha".
How do you know this and what is the part # for the board that was replaced? If you want us to "report" how about you doing the same here so we have more knowledge to offer Yamaha.
Regards,
Joe H
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Chronos1976 wrote:
"My second keyboard had a faulty circuit board where only the [H] and [J] keys were affected. Please feedback this back to Yamaha".
How do you know this and what is the part # for the board that was replaced? If you want us to "report" how about you doing the same here so we have more knowledge to offer Yamaha.
Regards,
Joe H
Hi Joe,
Yamaha Service Department UK told me the circuit board for the buttons was faulty in the lower right side of the display. However, as the keyboard was new the entire machine was replaced and so there was no mention of part numbers, batch numbers or any other information that I would have already shared. I'm just as keen to get this issue resolved as you but feel the tone of your comment is unhelpful.
Kind regards,
Paul.
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Hey John,
Here is ther Release Notes for the PSR firmare update:
"[V1.04 to V1.05]
- Fixed a problem in which updating of the display and button response would slow down when many Expansion Voices were installed in the instrument".
Joe H
Hi Joe,
OK, similar to wording used in the Ty5 description. There seems to be a possible issue related to expansion voices affecting both keyboards which they have now addressed. I can see why it caught your attention. :)
John
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John,
It's not just similar wording... it's identical wording. My comment was that I find it curious.
Joe H
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Which of course is why I quickly asked Robert from Yamaha if he could clarify what buttons he was referring in the discription in his first post when he announced the update.
And I quote his reply.
---------------------------------
Thanks Textbook,
Yes, I meant primarily the A-E/F-J buttons. And we hope to see and hear reported improvements concerning unintended exits to the main screen, when using them.
Best regards,
Robert R
Yamaha U.S.A.
----------------------------------------------
As you can see Robert clearly states in the quote above and in the link below it was the the A-E/F-J button issue they were referring.
http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,33508.msg250372.html#msg250372
I have no reason whatsoever to doubt Roberts integrity as his statement is there for all to see, and indeed I for one appreciate and thank him for clarifying that 1.05 does have firmware changes to help alleviate the A-E/F-J button issue and the fact that improvements are being seen after installing 1.05 supports his comments.
I agree however they could initially have been much more specific, and also the fact the T5 update has the same original description too does make one wonder, or as Joe stated curious.
Cameron
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I am still waiting form my PSR-s970.
When he come back to me i will check firmware 1.05.
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I am still waiting form my PSR-s970.
When he come back to me i will check firmware 1.05.
I hope it turns out to be a good one when you do get it, after the issues you have had.. fingers xxx...hopefully it won't be much longer, and you can get back to playing it again. :)
Cameron
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Szwarc, hope your new PSR-970 is working properly; sure would like to know.
March 21 was the last post, and no one has been back since to complain. It looks like the firmware update took hold.
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TrentN,
I posted elsewhere, but I should have posted here too. The v1.05 firmware up date fixed my S970 button problem and also brother's S970 button problem too.
8)
Joe H
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Yes, it is the truth. The problem with buttons has left with new firmware updating 1.05 Probably there was a program mistake.
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I am still waiting for may psr-s970
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I purchased my 970 in Sept----week ago did the latest update--1.05---everything works perfect !!! THANKS to all you guys that brought out the problem---- THANKS YAMAHA !! for the fix------JohnH
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I am still waiting for may psr-s970
Sorry to hear, you still have not received your S970 back yet, it does seem to be taking an awful long time.
It might be worth posting a message to Robert, at Yamaha Support in this thread, maybe he can find out why it's taking so long.
http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,33778.msg252427.html#msg25242
Cameron
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I am still waiting form my PSR-s970. When he come back to me i will check firmware 1.05.
Yes I agree it has taken way too long. You have had a bad experience. :'( Maybe Yamaha should give you a new keyboard and keep that one you returned.
Joe H
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I think that Yamaha (in Poland) have his customers in *** :o)
I send mail to shop, service, central yamaha Poland, yamaha music Europe, president Yamaha and they done nothing.
Service says that they are waiting for new case for my instrument, maybe they will do my instrument in next week (MAYBE).
I am still waiting (from 10.02.2016) - 2 months
When my instrument comes back i will sell it imediatelly and i will by KORG PA3X.
I dont wont YAMAHA never again.
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I think that Yamaha (in Poland) have his customers in *** :o)
I send mail to shop, service, central yamaha Poland, yamaha music Europe, president Yamaha and they done nothing.
Service says that they are waiting for new case for my instrument, maybe they will do my instrument in next week (MAYBE).
I am still waiting (from 10.02.2016) - 2 months
When my instrument comes back i will sell it imediatelly and i will by KORG PA3X.
I dont wont YAMAHA never again.
The joystick on my PA3X broke shortly after I bought it. Korg took care of it, but it took two months to get the part!! So it's not just a Yamaha thing. Thanks to the touch strip, I was able to use the 3x until the part came in.
LOVE my PA4X though. :)
Overall I would save that Korg customer support is better than Yamaha. They monitor the forum and react quickly to valid compaints and even suggestions. However Yamaha SERVICE is far quicker and easier to access. Of course I'm speaking of the United States. Can't speak for other countries or areas.
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In Poland it is not too good.
I think that the instruments now are very week.
Everything through the race behind the new technology.
Companies are taking part in a race and are selling new not checked instruments with defects.
The customer isn't taking into account.
I had a PSR-9000 - this instrument was very good and strong.
I'm really sorry, that I sold it and I bought PSR-S 970.
PSR-9000 had far more better loudspeakers, strong casing, comfortable arranging buttons.
Psr-s 970 very much disappointed me and company so Yamaha failed therefore never again I will buy the instrument from the stable yamaha.
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The 9000 was the flagship in its day and was good but very very heavy. The 970 has more up to date technology and is much lighter. I find sound wise it is very good.
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szwarc,
I suspect that when you get your S970 back everything will be good. Yes you have had a bad experience, but I think once you see everything is working correctly, you may find you like the keyboard after all. It's really a very nice instrument!
Cheers,
Joe H
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I dont think so.
Yes PSR 9000 was very heavy but this instrument had a very strong loudspeakers.
Loudspeakers in PSR-S970 - they are probably taken out of the toy for children.
It was in order to better if they weren't at all.
Yes i heve very bad experience.
How I will only get the instrument at once I am putting him up for sale.
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I dont think so.
Yes PSR 9000 was very heavy but this instrument had a very strong loudspeakers.
Loudspeakers in PSR-S970 - they are probably taken out of the toy for children.
It was in order to better if they weren't at all.
Yes i heve very bad experience.
How I will only get the instrument at once I am putting him up for sale.
Hi there, szwarc
Yes, the PSR-9000 has got a 56-watt amplifier with built-in speakers enclosed in wood / particle board cabinets. What other arranger keyboard could compete with that BIG PSR-9000 sound! And silly me, for selling my fully-upgraded PSR-9000. :(
To Big Betty (my departed PRS-9000), wherever you are, I hope your new owners are treating you kindly and using the dust cover. Hope they appreciate your floppy disk emulator, your fully upgraded RAM, your fresh internal batteries, your hard disk. :'( :'( :'( :'(
szwarc, if loudness of integral speakers is now paramount to you, perhaps you might check out the new Casio arranger keyboard - 40 watts output? (see the Musikmesse exhibition 2016).
When your repaired PSR-S970 keyboard is returned to you, would you mind please checking to see if the A-J buttons are now fully working as they should? If so, perhaps you might give it another chance. Otherwise, good luck with whatever path you choose.
best regards,
Jack
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In PSR-9000 I had a compact flash card reader installed not hard disk. The floppy disk drive worked perfectly but I replaced it with the USB reader. everything acted perfectly.
RAM Was full.
I bought PSR-S 970 because I thought that Yamaha had such instruments qualitatively super as PSR-9000 - unfortunately very much I made a mistake.
Casio is instruments for children.
How I will only get PSR-S 970 I will inspect buttons A-J and I will write on the forum.
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szwarc: Hello back,
Bear in mind that the PSR-9000 was Yamaha's top / flagship model of the day, with a big price tag, equivalent to buying a new Tyros today. Perhaps it would be an unfair comparison, as current Tyros's have no integral speakers. The PSR-S970 is top of the middle range.
Sorry to hear about your bad luck with your PSR-S970 and hope it will soon be resolved for you.
Can I ask this: Were you disappointed with your new PSR-S970's performance before you discovered the A-J button issue? Why didn't you just return it directly for a full refund citing a disappointing performance?
But perhaps your retailer had no returns policy at all on new instruments? Here in the UK, many retailers have an easy returns policy on new instruments: like return within 7 days / 14 days, whatever.
But maybe in Poland it is different.
best regards and good luck
Jack
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The lattest update seems to have cured the button problem for most.
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The lattest update seems to have cured the button problem for most.
Eileen, that is good to hear. I see that Joe H (and Joe's brother) with a couple of other members, say the latest firmware update has cured / or virtually cured the A-J button issue.
cheers
Jack
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I was disappointed with the instrument at once after the purchase, peculiarly with these loudspeakers, which instead of normally to play only are squeaking.
Of defects in buttons A-J only complemented my disappointment.
I made a mistake, that I had ordered the instrument earlier not testing him - being based exactly on an PSR-9000 quality.
Theoretically I could give it back (10 days) but it wouldn't be simple - I would have to probably struggle legally with the shop.
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I was disappointed with the instrument at once after the purchase, peculiarly with these loudspeakers, which instead of normally to play only are squeaking.
Of defects in buttons A-J only complemented my disappointment.
I made a mistake, that I had ordered the instrument earlier not testing him - being based exactly on an PSR-9000 quality.
Theoretically I could give it back (10 days) but it wouldn't be simple - I would have to probably struggle legally with the shop.
Hi again, szwarc
Okay, you made a small mistake, thinking that all latest Yamaha PSR-S's keyboard speakers would sound like your old PSR-9000. But hey! - I wish I were the copyright owner of other folks' mistakes, eh! What a rich life I could live collecting all those royalties. :)
On the bright side, with the reported software 'fix' for the button issue, you might at least be confident in asking a good price in selling it. Perhaps your dealer might offer you the full price paid against another, more expensive model?
I can certainly understand your irritation, having seen the photos of your PSR-S970, which was returned to you unfixed but with heavy scratches on the casing.
happy regards
Jack
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szwarc, if loudness of integral speakers is now paramount to you, perhaps you might check out the new Casio arranger keyboard - 40 watts output? (see the Musikmesse exhibition 2016).
best regards,
Jack
Jack, I am leery of Casio's ability to compete sound wise with Yamaha.
over a month age, I purchased the Casio Privia PX-560, thinking that it's voices and accompaniments would take the place of my PSR-3000. However, except for piano tone with 88-keys and weighted truer to piano feel, its sounds are so disappointing in everything else. Even an old PSR-3000 trumps it with its styles and voices being much superior.
I can't even begin to imagine how a PSR-s970 would compare.
EDIT: The 560 is superior as a piano, and that was my main reason for keeping it.
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Casio are very good - but watches
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Jack, I am leery of Casio's ability to compete sound wise with Yamaha.
over a month age, I purchased the Casio Privia PX-560, thinking that it's voices and accompaniments would take the place of my PSR-3000. However, except for piano tone with 88-keys and weighted truer to piano feel, its sounds are so disappointing in everything else. Even an old PSR-3000 trumps it with its styles and voices being much superior.
I can't even begin to imagine how a PSR-s970 would compare.
EDIT: The 560 is superior as a piano, and that was my main reason for keeping it.
Howdo there, gramps,
Sorry but I'm running for cover here, before the start of a fanboy spitting contest. :) :)
happy regards
Jack
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EDIT: The 560 is superior as a piano, and that was my main reason for keeping it.
I agree, the Casio Piano sound is noticeable better than my 970, and IMO a touch better that the T5 Piano too, but AYS the other voices are not so good, and the styles are poor, which is why I use the Casio piano for lead, and do the accompaniment on my 970.
Check out the Casio Piano numbers with 970 accompaniment I recently posted in the members songs section, as a dedication to my wife. Those numbers were 2 of her favourites.
Best wishes... Cameron
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I agree, the Casio Piano sound is noticeable better than my 970, and IMO a touch better that the T5 Piano too, but AYS the other voices are not so good, and the styles are poor, which is why I use the Casio piano for lead, and do the accompaniment on my 970.
Check out the Casio Piano numbers with 970 accompaniment I recently posted in the members songs section, as a dedication to my wife who sadly passed away last Monday. The numbers were 2 of her favourites.
Best wishes... Cameron
I'm so sorry about your loss. I'm stunned. Losing the love of our life is something that is the most devastating thing we ever go through. In 1971, my first wife lost her life in a car accident; something that I'll never forget, even to this day. Life does go on, and we do have purpose to continue, even though it is really hard at times. My condolences and prayers go out for you.
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My PSR-A3000 which I bought it about two months ago, I did notice the erratic behavior of "A to J" buttons but thought I'm doing it wrong. Few days later, I noticed that it is happening by itself and it is not me. I updated the firmware to V1.02 (last week) and seems like the issue is gone away.
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Let me correct myself, the problem is still there and firmware update V1.02 "DID NOT FIX THE ISSUE".
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Today I got my instrument. The casing was replaced.
The service still insisted that the instrument didn't have a defect.
When I installed the 1.05 software the problem disappeared.
Anyway at once today (how I only brought the instrument from the service) I exchanged PSR-S 970 for KORG Pa900.
I am pleased that I managed to get rid of this instrument.
Never again i will buy Yamaha, for what company Yamaha treated me.
As for me the first impression is doing KORG Pa900 remarkable. He doesn't look like PSR-S 970 so nicely but sounds are outdoing Yamaha.
Anyway I want to say goodbye to you and to thank you for the help.
I am greeting you everyone warmly.
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You'll love the PA900, particularly if you sing. It has excellent voice processor and harmonizer.
Stick around here too though!
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Today I got my instrument. The casing was replaced.
The service still insisted that the instrument didn't have a defect.
When I installed the 1.05 software the problem disappeared.
Anyway at once today (how I only brought the instrument from the service) I exchanged PSR-S 970 for KORG Pa900.
I am pleased that I managed to get rid of this instrument.
Never again i will buy Yamaha, for what company Yamaha treated me.
As for me the first impression is doing KORG Pa900 remarkable. He doesn't look like PSR-S 970 so nicely but sounds are outdoing Yamaha.
Anyway I want to say goodbye to you and to thank you for the help.
I am greeting you everyone warmly.
to szwarc: Good luck on your new path, sir! Don't be a stranger on this excellent site, though, for there's plenty of useful stuff here for all users. :)
to all: Might be upgrading from my PSR-E later this year: Is the consensus opinion that the psr-s770 / s970 'button blight' was definitely fixed with the most recent software upgrade?
good regards to all,
Jack
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I would not say it 100% fixed it Jack, I've not played my keyboards for some weeks, but I can say it definitely improved it dramatically.
In my testing of 1.05 firmware, it was quickly apparent things had improved, in general use I found if I pressed on the low side of the button or between the low side and centre just occasionally, and by that I mean probably once or twice out of say 40 or 50 presses it would exit, so definitely a big improvement. If I always pressed in the centre or between centre and the high side it never exited at all, and over time that's how I now always press them. So definitely some noticeable improvement.
As far as I'm concerned it's pretty much become a non issue, AIS I had become accustomed to pressing the buttons towards the high side anyway, and since the 1.05 firmware it's almost impossible to get it to exit, and can only do so by deliberately pressing the low side of the button, where previously doing so would have exited 1 in 5 presses.
I would also think later models would likely have improved switch panels, as I still think the original problem was likely hardware, which has been disguised/fixed by a software update, so you really shouldn't have any issues on later models anyway I wouldn't have thought, as the ones you and I bought were some of the first in the UK last year.
Best wishes.
Cameron
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I would not say it 100% fixed it Jack, I've not played my keyboards for some weeks, but I can say it definitely improved it dramatically.
In my testing of 1.05 firmware, it was quickly apparent things had improved, in general use I found if I pressed on the low side of the button or between the low side and centre just occasionally, and by that I mean probably once or twice out of say 40 or 50 presses it would exit, so definitely a big improvement. If I always pressed in the centre or between centre and the high side it never exited at all, and over time that's how I now always press them. So definitely some noticeable improvement.
As far as I'm concerned it's pretty much become a non issue, AIS I had become accustomed to pressing the buttons towards the high side anyway, and since the 1.05 firmware it's almost impossible to get it to exit, and can only do so by deliberately pressing the low side of the button, where previously doing so would have exited 1 in 5 presses.
I would also think later models would likely have improved switch panels, as I still think the original problem was likely hardware, which has been disguised/fixed by a software update, so you really shouldn't have any issues on later models anyway I wouldn't have thought, as the ones you and I bought were some of the first in the UK last year.
Best wishes.
Cameron
Greetings, Cameron,
Much appreciate your detailed response there.
thank-you
Jack :)
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Although this is an old topic, because I am waiting for my new psr-s770 to arrive in the next week, it made me feel a little worried. :-\
You did a good work, as Yamaha finally listened and managed to do some fix about this problem, although it seems like they didn't fixed it 100%.
I have read all the posts of this topic and I realized that after the v1.05 firmware released, the complains stopped and this topic got silent. Some members mentioned that the problem fixed 100%, some others not quiet 100%.
All of these members had purchased their keyboards before April 2016, so as this topic seems silent from that moment and afterwards, does this means that Yamaha corrected also the new batches, so this problem does not exist anymore now?
It would be nice to see, if the new psr-s970-s770 owners of let's say 2017 and afterwards, have noticed this button problem even once, or if the firmware v1.06 finally fixed completely the issue for the 2016 owners.
Could you please check your keyboards and report back here, if there is still this problem exists?
This would make the few last new owners of these beautiful instruments to feel a little better. :)
Thanks in advance.
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I have the 970 and there is now no problem with buttons at all.
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I have the S970. No problem😀
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If I recall, EileenL you had mentioned that yours never had this problem and you had bought this from 2015, right?
How about yours Toril S, what date did you buy this?
I am wondering, is there any way to identify when this product is made? Maybe a code at the box or from serial numbers? I know that a way is the firmware that it comes from the factory, but is there any other more accurate way to see the production date?
It would be helpful, if we could make a list with the serial numbers about the batches that they have or had this problem.
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I purchased mine in September 2017.
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I purchased mine in September 2017.
Do you have tried the tests that Chronos1976 suggests at the first post of this topic?
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Although this is an old topic, because I am waiting for my new psr-s770 to arrive in the next week, it made me feel a little worried. :-\
You did a good work, as Yamaha finally listened and managed to do some fix about this problem, although it seems like they didn't fixed it 100%.
I have read all the posts of this topic and I realized that after the v1.05 firmware released, the complains stopped and this topic got silent. Some members mentioned that the problem fixed 100%, some others not quiet 100%.
All of these members had purchased their keyboards before April 2016, so as this topic seems silent from that moment and afterwards, does this means that Yamaha corrected also the new batches, so this problem does not exist anymore now?
It would be nice to see, if the new psr-s970-s770 owners of let's say 2017 and afterwards, have noticed this button problem even once, or if the firmware v1.06 finally fixed completely the issue for the 2016 owners.
Could you please check your keyboards and report back here, if there is still this problem exists?
This would make the few last new owners of these beautiful instruments to feel a little better. :)
Thanks in advance.
It was fixed with the latest firmware update. You don't need to concern yourself with the button issue.
Joe H
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Anyway, I hope so.
I will report back when I will received mine.
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I have read all the posts of this topic and I realized that after the v1.05 firmware released, the complains stopped and this topic got silent. Some members mentioned that the problem fixed 100%, some others not quiet 100%.
There's no reason to worry about.
My s770 (Nov '16) was working fine with the v1.05 firmware, just the same as with v1.06.
Βe patient until your instrument comes and you will be completely happy with it.
;)
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That's perfect news then!!
It must have grown some white hairs at my head, after the disappointment that I felt yesterday, as I was reading all these posts..
I feel lucky that I didn't find this topic before I make the order, otherwise I wouldn't had order it.
I can't wait for it to arrive! ;D
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That is correct that I did not have a problem but I know others did and the update sorted it for them.
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Anyway, I hope so.
I will report back when I will received mine.
Just for the records..
After a month of using my lovely s770, I can confirm that there is no problem with the buttons. :)
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Congratulations with your S770!