Topic: Why do we always want more?

[Divemaster]

In a segment of time where we have the best selection of keyboards ever offered, why are we never satisfied?
Reading the forums most days, it's full of IF only it had this, that or the other.
Shame they didn't include X or Y.
Will the next models have it... Whatever IT refers to.

When we buy our keyboards, we know what we're getting  We can check out the spec beforehand.
So why do we always expect more?

How many of us actually really LOVE what we've got, and get enjoyment from playing. And correspondingly, how many of us just seem to want to find issues with our brand new keyboards almost from day 1?
Of course everybody wants different things from an arranger, but are some of the expectations, balanced against what we're willing to pay, realistic?

So... In YOUR view... What makes the perfect arranger? The one you could buy today, and be entirely happy with?

Or do we just like moaning about what we didn't get? 

[KurtAgain]

When I think about replacing my keyboard with a new one, I actually want a new toy.

Then I ask myself the two questions that would probably ruin our economy if everyone did that:
1) Do I really need this?
2) And if so, do I really need this right now?

But the next day I would like to have a new toy again...

[EileenL]

Hi Divemaster,
  I feel the same way. When I buy a keyboard I know what I am getting. An instrument that I can just sit down and play and entertain others that like listening to live music.
  I do not want loads of add on Daw's etc. or editing programmes. All I require is on the instrument I buy, and I enjoy setting up my keyboard as I want it to sound.
  I do love my Genos2 and it dose all I expected it to do. The styles are good the sounds are the best ever what more could you ask for.
  We all know that Yamaha are never going to put all there things that are asked for on there keyboards so why keep complaining about them.
  It dose spoil the fun of coming onto this forum when all you get are people blinding you with all these requests.

[Gleston]

Dear Divemaster

i think that what fullfill us is the pleasure to play the songs we love. Itīs always the man and woman that plays, that makes the difference.

The equipment itīs only the conveyor of this pleasure.

You could hear a very beatifull playing on a cheap keyboard, and a very bad one on a Genos 2.

Of course the technology enchants us , and itīs necessary to reach our pleasure, but I hope that it will never be the only way to achieve that.

Sure YAMAHA gives us excellent devices , but letīs keep our focus on ourselves and our  skills.

[BogdanH]

I think it's mostly about having a new toy.. the best we can afford.. to revive the excitement again. And it's usually only the wallet that keeps us immune to that 
Of course we're always able to find the reasons why we need new/better keyboard, but these excuses are usually quite weak.

My five years old SX700 is among the cheap arrangers and there's nothing I can't do with it -my knowledge and playing skill are the only limit. After all this time, it still happens that I say to myself "wow, that's how it works.. I can do that too!" -and that excitement costs nothing.
To answer Divemaster's question: in regard of keyboard capability, I'm very happy with my keyboard.

Of course I have wishes and so I will probably buy new keyboard one day. However, getting few more voices, one or two new effects and two additional buttons isn't enough to excite me.

Bogdan

[Gleston]

Hi Bogdan

I have a PSR S970 and I have the same pleasure as yourself.

I really donīt see what people do with new keyboards that I canīt do in my PSR S970.

I need some efforts with preparing what I want (sometimes in a computer) but the end result is much more pleasure than to get it ready on a new keyboard.

And just to clarify: I use samples, I create my styles, or prepare new ones from MIDI files and the JOSOSOFT apps, I tweak the originals timbres if I needed, I create multi pad that I want. Itīs just work, but this also gives me pleasure while doing. And buy a device that already does this or that wil take away that part of the pleasure.

I can do something that I never see here: I needed a style yhat should have 6 main parts , but thereīs  only four in all these machine.

So I create 2 styles , play from Main A until Main D in the first style, then I changed to the second style while playing and use Main D and Main C with this other style , and the ENDING of the song was in the second style.

I know itīs very hard to do this , but it can be done and I think is part of pleasure  with music.






The only thing that get better and impossible to reproduce is the quality of the sound.

[DrakeM]

Well, let me see here now. I have a PSR-S950 I purchased new in 2013 and I passed on purchasing the Tyros 5, S970, Genos, S975, SX900 and the Genos 2.

Yep, there ain’t been anything worth opening up my wallet for yet.

I have played a lot of hours on this S950. So when the next 61 keyboard model hits the shelves, I’ll buy it. Unless this S950 dies on me first, then I will get the current SX900.

Of the 261 new named Genos 2 styles I heard while reworking them to play in my S950, I found only one that I think I can use parts of to make a style for the song “Jessie’s Girl”. That one isn’t a country song, but it’s for my sister in law.

I have made well over 400 custom songs styles covering the 1950s to 2018. I am passing on making styles for any song older than the 1980s, except for Elvis tunes. The PSR-S950 can perform as good as the Genos 2 for what songs I entertain folks with.

My real issue is with what the music industry is trying to pass off as COUNTRY MUSIC today. I hear nothing worth making a style to cover the songs they put out now a days.

Just another issue with becoming so MATURE, I guess. 

Drake

[Gleston]

Hi Drake

The same thing here in Brasil!!

Old song are better.


Or itīs is just us?.....

[mikf]

The development of these instruments is definitely at the plateau phase. So we will see less and less change model to model. Not everyone wants more functions anyway,  but there are always ways to make it do what it already does a little better, a little easier, …so that might drive upgrading.
Truthfully, I have little thirst to change what I have. The money is not the reason, it’s the hassle, the learning curve, I think that’s true for many people as they get older.
Mike

[J. Larry]

I upgrade primarily for new/improved styles and voices.  Could order the Genos 2 today, but much prefer the size, weight, and built-in speakers of the SX 900.  Just waiting to see what Yamaha does with the SX series.

[chesterkins]

I like what somebody said earlier this year about their first impressions of their Genos 2
' They didn't play better BUT they sounded better'
I have had all the Tyros models and now a Genos  and the only one I regretted buying was the Tyros 3 as I thought it was half baked after the T2
So I agree with folks saying its a new toy and it revitalizes the interest without making you a better player
I have only had my Genos for 3 years so still very much in love with it
I expect i will be a Genos 2 owner in a couple of years too

[Graham UK]

Remember that as we get older it is important to keep our brains active, new products do this by giving us a challenge.

The most precious thing we all have is our brain, which controls everything we do.
I now suffer from Cerebellum  Ataxia. Cerebellum is at the back lower part of your brain and is responsible for you communicating with your limbs movement.

At 87 I'm not complaining and hopefully Peter Baartmans will have set up a music room by the time I get there.

[pjd]

So... In YOUR view... What makes the perfect arranger?

Got it already -- Genos 1. It suits my needs.

1) Do I really need this?
2) And if so, do I really need this right now?

I'd add "3) Can I afford it?", "4) Where am I going to put it?" and "5) What else has to go out the door first?"

It does spoil the fun of coming onto this forum when all you get are people blinding you with all these requests.

People can expect all they want. Please ignore them for your own sake. 

Yep, there ain’t been anything worth opening up my wallet for yet.

The development of these instruments is definitely at the plateau phase.

Had an S950 like Drake. Good arranger. Mike is right. The mid- and upper-end arrangers are fine instruments. I would have given anything to have a Genos 1 in 1980...

Remember that as we get older it is important to keep our brains active, new products do this by giving us a challenge.

That's why I get into different aspects of music and music technology. Learning new software, making new styles, etc. are other ways to keep the mind active.

Peace to everyone -- pj

[Amwilburn]

I like what somebody said earlier this year about their first impressions of their Genos 2
' They didn't play better BUT they sounded better'
I have had all the Tyros models and now a Genos  and the only one I regretted buying was the Tyros 3 as I thought it was half baked after the T2
So I agree with folks saying its a new toy and it revitalizes the interest without making you a better player
I have only had my Genos for 3 years so still very much in love with it
I expect i will be a Genos 2 owner in a couple of years too

Interesting. Yes the T3 added the S.Art 2 voices to the T2, and a *much* much better piano, but other than that, not much else. To me, it was a big enough jump, but if you didn't use the piano or the S.Art 2 phrased voices? Literally the same as the T2 (with a few more drum kits, including the Turkish one)

To me, the smallest gap was T4 to T5 (at first; it wasn't until later when YEM really took off that the difference became apparent)

It's weird how underwhelmingly everyone else has presented the G2 though; all the new drums, SArt2 basses, etc... it's a much bigger gap than the T2 to T3, and likewise the T4 to T5, but the online demos really don't focus on the differences (I've only got 2 demos up myself, will be recording a bunch more).

Anyone I've demoed it to in person went "Wow! What a difference!!"

Mark

[hans1966]

At this moment after having had the SX900, and due to life circumstances starting again from scratch first with a Korg EK-50, and then moving on to the SX600, it is like coming back to life

Every day this little guy surprises me with what he brings, and I continue to enjoy him like the first day.

Greetings

Hans

[BogdanH]

Let me complete my post above, as a reaction to Mark's post... that is, I wish to avoid the wrong impression of Aesop's "Sour grape" fable 

I said that I'm very happy with my SX700 (which is true), but I need to add "for the price I paid". Of course there are things that I'm missing a lot on SX700. Some of them are available on Genos and so I obviously wish to have it. However I simply cannot justify the asked price... I just think that I would benefit too little for paying a lot more.
But hey, if lottery happens, all options are open 

Bogdan

[bpsafran]

I agree with Mark about the Genos2 that I have had for a few months after years with Tyros4 and  then Tyros5.  It is a tremendous upgrade.  This is due to:
1. The new reverb which localizes the voices so there is much better spatial separation.  Even within a single voice I find this to be true - for example, the choir intro 2 to the style Ethereal Voices.
2. The greatly upgraded brass - both pop and orchestral.
3. The many styles to choose from, with all using the new reverbs, effects and voices.
4. The aftertouch sensitivity which brings out new aspects of voices; Tyros5 also had aftertouch but in Genos2 I hear more differences in more voices with aftertouch.
5. The 1600 registrations that can be downloaded from Yamaha - 2 for each style.  You don't have to use them for those particular songs, but going through the registrations which use the best voices and effects, is a good tutorial in how to optimize playing the Genos2.

 On the whole, the difference is best reflected in the holistic experience of playing the instrument. 

[cyber swine]

Having just added yet another keyboard to the stable I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but now feel obliged to point out how different we all are and how our motivations differ.  Perhaps I had a deprived childhood but I love new toys.  I enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to use them and get the best sounds (for me) that I'm looking for.  Sometimes it isn't easy..... but that's part of it all.  I'm not wealthy, I kept my last car for just over twenty years from new because I don't care about them at all.  All my electronic stuff is networked and working together because that's what I choose to do.  Each to their own.... just enjoy!

[Amwilburn]

Having just added yet another keyboard to the stable I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but now feel obliged to point out how different we all are and how our motivations differ.  Perhaps I had a deprived childhood but I love new toys.  I enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to use them and get the best sounds (for me) that I'm looking for.  Sometimes it isn't easy..... but that's part of it all.  I'm not wealthy, I kept my last car for just over twenty years from new because I don't care about them at all.  All my electronic stuff is networked and working together because that's what I choose to do.  Each to their own.... just enjoy!

That is a *really* healthy attitude!

Nothing to do with being deprived; a lot of us like what we like.

I'm also part of the Xbox Gaming community; some people only like to play free games/included with gamepass games, some people like to only play games they can easily finish; some people like to play games that few other people complete (high ratio games, because so few people complete), and some just like the gamerscore metagame, and don't care what they finish or don't finish on the way.

And these groups all argue with each other: "You only play baby games? What a wuss"; "You don't try to finish every game? Your completion percentage sucks. That's all that matters". Some are even driven to finish a game they hate, because "I have to finish them all" (and you can't. No matter how much you play, how many games you own, you can't finish them all because servers keep shutting down, making some games unplayable).

The point? I've told everyone I talk to in the gaming community: do what you like. It's not someone else's gatekeeping job to say you can only game this way; as long as you enjoy it, who cares?

Same thing with how you choose to spend *your* money. A PC gamer might invest in a new rig every few years, and new graphics and sound cards annually to keep up to date in the meantime. A car guy might get a new car every few years to have the latest and greatest; and some of us will instead drive the car until it can't be driven anymore so that we could instead buy the newest keyboard toy that brings us joy!

But what if I'm not good enough at playing? What if I can't sight read? What if I can't play by ear and can only sight read? What if I don't sing, I'm wasting the mic functions?

I'll say the same thing: who cares as long as you're enjoying yourself?

Mark

[mikf]

Mark, like you say, it’s everyone’s free choice how they get pleasure and value for their money. But as someone who has owned many musical instruments I always felt that the best way to get more pleasure from them was to play them better. I think you might be hinting at that in your last paragraph, …..Just saying…..
Mike

[BogdanH]

..I always felt that the best way to get more pleasure from them was to play them better.

-is true and is related to thread title question, I think.
Most of us started playing keyboard at older age and so progress to develop playing skill is quite slow.. and it usually stops quite often in relative early stage. Being just a hobby, there's no pressure that would force us to improve and when we reach certain point, there's usually also not enough will anymore.
And so we start looking for new keyboard, thinking that this would improve our result... that it would in some way compensate lack of playing skill. You know what comes then: "wow, listen darling how good this piano sounds! Wait, wait, hear these drums!" 

Bogdan

[NativeAngels]

I think the question should be how do we adapt what we already have?
Have you learned how to edit what you have by adding effects or rebalancing tracks.

I have as a practice when I use or try a style is to put all the tracks to zero and then rebalance them, muting tracks adjusting effects just as a sound engineer would do.

Sometimes even the smallest changes can transform a style.

Exactly the same applies to sounds themselves.

[soryt]

The only answer is , Because we are human 

[Gunnar Jonny]

The only answer is , Because we are human 

Good point. 
If it was so that we don't want more or just be pleased with what we already have, why should anyone bother to create anything new, make it better and develope it further? 

[Divemaster]

But the question was....

Having bought and paid for a new keyboard, piano, synth, guitar or whatever, why do we almost immediately start finding problems with it?

Only Eileen has nailed it so far. 

That's what I can't get my head around. Why do we buy the latest, greatest instruments if they don't have what we want...I'm interested why some of us go and spend several thousands of Ģ $ € to buy something we're not happy with.. It's fascinating.

Bit like buying a Vintage Car and then being unhappy because it hasn't got a heated steering wheel....

Keith.

[DrakeM]

But the question was....

Having bought and paid for a new keyboard, piano, synth, guitar or whatever, why do we almost immediately start finding problems with it?

Only Eileen has nailed it so far. 

And yet Eileen, will be the first person to get the NEXT Genos offered. 

[Divemaster]

As the Grand lady of these forums, she's earned that right! 😂 😂

[Gleston]

I agree too.

Eillenīs opinion is always very important to me.

[p$manK32]

And yet Eileen, will be the first person to get the NEXT Genos offered. 

But upgrading to the latest model 7 years later is not the same as being unhappy with the existing model.

[DrakeM]

But upgrading to the latest model 7 years later is not the same as being unhappy with the existing model.

"Whatever" as the kids say now a days.

I just pointed out what obvious and very funny. IMO

[Toril S]

I think it is human to dream of more. Wnat if it could do this and that? And when I look at these keyboards, with all their blinking lights and all the buttons, I think that we who buy them and love them must be at least a little bit gadget-happy! We love to fiddle with knobs, press buttons and exprtiment to get good sound. So, when a mew gadget comes out, that can do more than the former one, well, then the temptation is too much for us Every time I got a new keyboard it inspired me to make some new music. I also imagined that I sounded better, and had become a better musician. Of course, that is to deceive yourself, but, what the heck. I have only one life, and want to have FUN out of it. Savint up for Genos 2.

[J. Larry]

I’m not into gadgets, buttons, or sliders as much as those colored lights----and bright, colorful screens.  However, I only make the plunge, when hearing the new, or upgraded styles and voices.  That’s the bottom line for me.  I guess any new toy is exciting.  I traded cars a few weeks ago.  A guy asked me...”Can I just stick my head through the door to get a whiff of that new car smell”.

[Oxford1035]

Why do,we always want more?

It’s called human nature!😉

Russ

[Graham UK]

For many years I worked with different speaker designers.
In the early years I was eager to learn and they all told me the same thing that at the end of the day you can't alter the laws of nature.
Materials are improved but the standard sound design rules still apply.

[Duffy]

But the question was....

Having bought and paid for a new keyboard, piano, synth, guitar or whatever, why do we almost immediately start finding problems with it?

Only Eileen has nailed it so far. 

That's what I can't get my head around. Why do we buy the latest, greatest instruments if they don't have what we want...I'm interested why some of us go and spend several thousands of Ģ $ € to buy something we're not happy with.. It's fascinating.

Bit like buying a Vintage Car and then being unhappy because it hasn't got a heated steering wheel....
Keith.

It's because they give us "a little bit of what we want" but just not the whole lot.
As has been pointed out,  those who say they are completely happy with their instrument,  are still the first in the queue to upgrade when a new model comes out.
Everyone likes to think that,  they will sound better,  and will also enjoy the extra options that a new upgraded model will always bring.
I still have Genos one because Genos 2 still doesn't address the 2 main issues which I have with it, (sound glitch and poor Hammond Organ).
I like the Bohm but am too old to make massive changes now.
Duffy 

[Toril S]

I take back the statement of saving up for Genos 2, I will wait for Genos 3, and buy it IF my 2 issues are adressed: 1. YEM. 2. The 8-pin cable to the sub. I am still very happy with my G1, but you always want more.......

[BogdanH]

I can understand you Toril... I think it's natural that we change our mind (sometimes several times) before making a final decision.
About your issues:
1. YEM -I think if Yamaha doesn't make some drastic change in next keyboard OS, we can't really expect the YEM to improve.
2. 8-pin cable... Well, that solution is dictated by production costs of GNS-MS01 speakers and at the same time actually simplifies the connection (cabling). Every other solution would be quite more expensive. Imagine each speaker has separate amplifier built-in and that means it would also require it's own power cable -which would essentially be the same as if you buy a pair of studio monitors+subwoofer.

But no matter what surprise Yamaha brings, I think it's a good idea to wait for Genos3 -especially if you're happy with Genos1. Let there be a BIG change 

Bogdan

[RayClem]

One thing I wish Yamaha would improve in YEM is the ability to adjust to different monitor resolutions using Windows 11. I have a 4K monitor and cannot read the YEM window at that resolution. I have to change the screen resolution to Full HD in order to use YEM. That is not a deal breaker, but it is certainly inconvenient. If nearly all other software adjusts for screen resolution, why can't Yamaha modify YEM to do so.

[casiokid]

Seems to me the most contented players still play the PSR S500  -Why should that be? Even YT 's Jeremy See says its still his 'go to' keyboard.  They also seem to be much sought after on the secondhand market.

[KurtAgain]

Seems to me the most contented players still play the PSR S500  -Why should that be? Even YT 's Jeremy See says its still his 'go to' keyboard.  They also seem to be much sought after on the secondhand market.

Do you really mean the "Yamaha PSR-S500" from around 2007? I still have one in our attic with a broken display.

Kurt

[BogdanH]

@casiokid
There's no wrong or right keyboard: it all depends on our playing skill and expectations that we have for some keyboard. But as mentioned many times, we also wish to have the best that we can afford -that's logical, because we don't wish to buy better keyboard six months later and losing money at that. Ok, if we buy 10+ years old keyboard, then we won't really loose much if we change our mind later.
Anyway, I wouldn't buy 20 years old keyboard, simply because there are many new keyboard choices at affordable price.

Jeremy See has his targeting audience (kids, students,..) which, I guess, often can't really afford to buy expensive keyboards. But for learning how to play (Jeremy is teaching playing, as far I know), we don't need to spend a fortune on keyboard! And so, yes.. whatever suits our needs 

Bogdan