Topic: SSS test

[soundphase]

Hello all,

The Duduk sound in DesertAdventure style (OTS) has a lot of reverb.
I created 2 registrations starting from DesertAdventure. On both of them, I only switch the "Duduk Meditation" sound on.
In the second I changed the style to OrchestralMarch.

In the second I switched back the reverb choice and all associated values to the one stored into the first registration
I copied all filter/EQ/Chorus/Reverb/PAN volume on both registrations
And in both registrations for "Assign part setting" I put all DSP insertion effects to "off/through".

My goal is to have exactly and only the same Duduk sound on the same R part, with no other DSP effect than the reverb/chorus/Variation Effect.

I play the Duduk sound alone (one note, without the style) with the registration associated with DesertAdventure style. During the reverb time, I then press the button for the second registration (Orchestral March). The reverb is badly cut.

I now play the same Duduk sound with the registration associated with OrchestralMarch. During the reverb time, I then press the button to come back to the first registration (DesertAdventure). The reverb continues to be heard correctly without being cut.

Very very strange.

[soundphase]

It seems that nobody has the beginning of an explanation.

It’s difficult to manage beautiful registration transition when we don’t understand the rules to follow.

[KurtAgain]

I would make sure that the two registrations use different DSPs. But that seems to me to be exactly what you don't want to do.

Kurt

[overover]

Hi soundphase,

As is well known, the System Effect types (Reverb and Chorus Effect Blocks, as well as Variation Effect if it is used as a System Effect ("Variation Connection" parameter is set to "System") are called up / switched by the Style used (or the MIDI file used). This means that the Voices themselves do not call up any System Effect types.

I looked at the two Genos2 styles "DesertAdventure" and "OrchestralMarch" in MixMaster (see also the attached screenshot). Among other things, I noticed the following:

“DesertAdventure” uses the “REVelation Cathedral” Reverb Type, but “OrchestralMarch” uses “REVelation LargeHall”. If, as in your case, the Style is switched by registrations, a longer reverb that still sounds will be cut off (because, as mentioned, the reverb type is switched, and this also applies to the Voices you use).

The solution might be to set the Effect Type the same in both styles, i.e. change it in one of the two styles. Alternatively, the Reverb Type can also be memorized directly into the Registrations. To do this, call up each registration of the relevant bank, make sure that the "correct" Reverb Type is set (in the Mixer display) and re-memorize the registration to the same registration button. Finally don't forget to re-save the Bank file.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[soundphase]

Hi soundphase,

As is well known, the System Effect types (Reverb and Chorus Effect Blocks, as well as Variation Effect if it is used as a System Effect ("Variation Connection" parameter is set to "System") are called up / switched by the Style used (or the MIDI file used). This means that the Voices themselves do not call up any System Effect types.

I looked at the two Genos2 styles "DesertAdventure" and "OrchestralMarch" in MixMaster (see also the attached screenshot). Among other things, I noticed the following:

“DesertAdventure” uses the “REVelation Cathedral” Reverb Type, but “OrchestralMarch” uses “Revelation LargeHall”. If, as in your case, the Style is switched by registrations, a longer reverb that still sounds will be cut off (because, as mentioned, the reverb type is switched, and this also applies to the Voices you use).

The solution might be to set the Effect Type the same in both styles, i.e. change it in one of the two styles. Alternatively, the Reverb Type can also be memorized directly into the Registrations. To do this, call up each registration of the relevant bank, make sure that the "correct" Reverb Type is set (in the Mixer display) and re-memorize the registration to the same registration button. Finally don't forget to re-save the Bank file.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

Thank you for spending time.

I put exactly the same reverb/chorus/variation effect parameters in Both registrations. So I changed the reverb type on the OrchestralMarch-based registration to "REVelation Cathedral" and put exactly the same values.

What is more strange is:
When I switch reg1 to reg2 => reverb is cut.
When I switch reg2 to reg1 => reverb is not cut.

[soundphase]

I would make sure that the two registrations use different DSPs. But that seems to me to be exactly what you don't want to do.

Kurt

Here finally, it's just the "reverb" effect which is used and no additional DSP. (I put all of them to "Off/Through")

[overover]

Thank you for spending time.

I put exactly the same reverb/chorus/variation effect parameters in Both registrations. So I changed the reverb type on the OrchestralMarch-based registration to "REVelation Cathedral" and put exactly the same values.

What is more strange is:
When I switch reg1 to reg2 => reverb is cut.
When I switch reg2 to reg1 => reverb is not cut.

Thanks for your feedback, soundphase!

Did you notice that the reverb type is only memorized in a registration if the STYLE box is ticked in the Memory dialog?


Best regards,
Chris

[soundphase]

Hello OverOver.

I can confirm you the STYLE checkbox is checked when I save my registration.

I attached a registration file containing 2 parts. You have to rename it (remove ".bmp" extension)

I restarted from scratch and succeeded repeating the issue.
I created a fully blank registration (all 10 are off)

Then I get the "DesertAdventure" style, chose OTS1 and saved it in reg1 and reg2.
On reg2, I chose "OrchestralMarch" style, and saved it to reg2.

In reg2, I changed the Reverb to "REVelation Cathedral"

In both reg1 and reg2 I changed all insertion effects (Assign part setting) to "Off/Through"
In both reg1 and reg2 I changed "variation effect" to "Through"

What I can now see
- on Reg2, Insertion effect level is deactivated but seen as activated (knob not « ghosted ») with a "30" level  for left, although all is off, and for Reg1 it is deactivated (« ghosted » knob with level 127)
- on both reg1/reg2, all insertion effects are "Off", but we can see the deactivated type which is not "through" for insertion effect > 16
- insertion effects are the same on reg1/reg2

You just have to play some notes (right hand) and switch between reg1 and reg2 alternatively

From reg1 to reg2, reverb is cut
From reg2 to reg1, reverb is not cut.

Regards
Soundphase


Edit: Attachment removed by overover. Please don't modify the file extension to circumvent our forum rules. To share files, you should upload them to an online storage service (e.g. Box.com, Google Drive etc.) and then provide the link to the file(s) in your post. Thank you, Chris (overover)

[bpsafran]

Why don't you deactvate the insert effect for the left
in Reg 2 so it will exactly the same as Reg 1 and then try.

[soundphase]

Why don't you deactvate the insert effect for the left
in Reg 2 so it will exactly the same as Reg 1 and then try.

It is fully deactivated (all insertion effects are off). My comment was not clear enough previously and I changed it.

The main screen doesn’t display any insertion effect title above the rotary knob for both registrations. The rotary knob remains « active » (not « ghosted ») with a level of 30 for the reg2 although it is displayed « deactivated » (« ghosted ») with a level of 127 for reg1.


I can’t change the insertion effect level for reg2 …. as there is no insertion effect associated.

You can download the registration and see the issue.

[overover]

Hi soundphase,

Before I removed the attached file in your post above, I downloaded it and uploaded it to my Box.com account for you. Here is the link to this Registration Bank file:
>>> TestPSRTutorial.T559.rgt

Unfortunately, due to time constraints, I cannot test/examine the file at the moment.


Best regards,
Chris

[soundphase]

Hi soundphase,

Before I removed the attached file in your post above, I downloaded it and uploaded it to my Box.com account for you. Here is the link to this Registration Bank file:
>>> TestPSRTutorial.T559.rgt

Unfortunately, due to time constraints, I cannot test/examine the file at the moment.


Best regards,
Chris

There is no urgency for the study results :-).
Could you just confirm that you easily reproduce the issue using the registration file on your own Genos2?
Thank you!

[soundphase]

Hi soundphase,

Before I removed the attached file in your post above, I downloaded it and uploaded it to my Box.com account for you. Here is the link to this Registration Bank file:
>>> TestPSRTutorial.T559.rgt

Unfortunately, due to time constraints, I cannot test/examine the file at the moment.


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris

I've broken the forum rule. No excuses. :-)

In fact, I didn't think that for such a small file it would matter.
But it's true that I'm setting a bad example.

I've copied myself to app.box so that you don't have to keep this file for me.
TestPSRTutorial.T559.rgt


It's not something I do regularly.

Thanks for your help.
Soundphase.

[soundphase]

I resolved my issue by saving an "OrchestralMarchCathedral" style (with REVelation Cathedral instead of REVelation Large Hall), and by associating this new Style to Reg2.

In this case, Reverb is not cut at all.

All this remain strange.

[overover]

I resolved my issue by saving an "OrchestralMarchCathedral" style (with REVelation Cathedral instead of REVelation Large Hall), and by associating this new Style to Reg2.

In this case, Reverb is not cut at all.

All this remain strange.

Hi soundphase,

The behavior described could be explained as follows:

When switching from Reg 1 (Preset Style "DesertAdventure"/REVelation Cathedral) to Reg2 (Preset Style "OrchestralMarch"), the Preset Reverb setting of "OrchestralMarch" is applied first, i.e. switched to the Reverb Type "REVelation LargeHall". This cuts off the "Cathedral" reverb. Only shortly afterwards does it switch back to the Reverb Type "REVelation Cathedral" set in Reg 2.

If it is really as I have just described, Yamaha should change the Genos2 firmware so that when switching to another Style via Reg, the Reverb Type memorized in the target Reg is checked first. And if this matches the Reverb Type previously used, it should be retained, i.e. without first switching briefly to the original Reverb Type of the target Style in question.


Best regards,
Chris

[soundphase]

Hi soundphase,

The behavior described could be explained as follows:

When switching from Reg 1 (Preset Style "DesertAdventure"/REVelation Cathedral) to Reg2 (Preset Style "OrchestralMarch"), the Preset Reverb setting of "OrchestralMarch" is applied first, i.e. switched to the Reverb Type "REVelation LargeHall". This cuts off the "Cathedral" reverb. Only shortly afterwards does it switch back to the Reverb Type "REVelation Cathedral" set in Reg 2.

If it is really as I have just described, Yamaha should change the Genos2 firmware so that when switching to another Style via Reg, the Reverb Type memorized in the target Reg is checked first. And if this matches the Reverb Type previously used, it should be retained, i.e. without first switching briefly to the original Reverb Type of the target Style in question.


Best regards,
Chris

Yes you’re right, this behavior explains why the reverb is cut from 1 to 2 and not cut from 2 to 1 (as target reverb stored in the style = current reverb)

Thank you for your help.