Topic: Does having a Genos 2 really matter

[Oldden]

Lots of replies to the possible Genos 2 coming soon, maybe later maybe never , but does it matter if it never comes. I never had a chance to play a Steinway piano or a real early Gibson ES 355 guitar or hold  many more beautiful instruments and never will. I’ve got a Genos a couple of mid range Yamaha guitars and two ukuleles and I’m happy. I’m not sure, in my late seventies that I  think I’ve got to my level, not sure  I want to learn the ins and outs of something new, it was hard enough with my Genos, I’m happy just to play. If I was younger maybe a new Genos, but then again maybe not. Are we dinosaurs hanging on to outdated music and styles. A motif or similar is maybe the future for keyboards or move away completely to a midi type keyboard attached to a computer.

[BogdanH]

hello Oldden,
I think, that from certain point on, it matters less and less. That "certain point" can be age, busy life, money.. and also if you're totally happy with keyboard that you have -because you realized that your playing won't become better by buying the latest keyboard.
On the other hand, some are constantly searching for that "perfect" keyboard. Fact is, there's always a place for improvements: more realistic accompaniments, better voices, better and easier to use, etc. And finally, there are advertisements saying how much better new keyboard is 
But as you say.. sometimes we only wish to just play and enjoy what we have.

Bogdan

[Gunnar Jonny]

Lots of replies to the possible Genos 2 coming soon, maybe later maybe never , but does it matter if it never comes...

No, it doesn't matter at all. 

[Lee Batchelor]

It all comes down to only one thing: What do you use your Genos for? Some musical demands require the latest and greatest. I play in an R&B bad where the brass, woodwind, and string voices need to be top notch. The Genos is an excellent choice for that type of work. If Genos 2 was a major improvement, I would likely trade my current Genos.

I disagree with anyone who says buying a better keyboard will not make you a better player. That's nonsense. The better the instrument, the more motivated you become as you tend to explore musical paths you never dreamed that you could play before - at least, that's how I feel. If I play Fly Me To The Moon on the Genos piano voice alone (no rhythms) it sounds okay. If I play it on a Steinway baby grand, it sounds amazing and my imagination kicks into a high gear and sometimes I add phrases and expressions I'm not normally good enough to do. I can't explain why. It's just the way it is for me. Hence, a Genos 2 could make me a better player.

If you're an occasional player who just loves to play on your own, a PSR2000 may still be all you really need. There's nothing wrong with that.

[ugawoga]

It is the motivation that keeps all going.
We do not get the presents kids get, but we are still like them. " oh the days pushing motor cars around the carpet and making dirt roads in the garden with a garage full of Dinky toys plus Sweet tobacco and sherbert Fountains.
As Eileen said, if you can afford to get new keyboards get them as you cannot take it with you.
I agree with Lee keep the fire burning.
Nothing in this life matters ,only the moment that you are living in.

[Oldden]

Hi All. Thanks for your replies, it nice to see that different people have different opinions. We all have , I hope, X money to spend on things that are not completely essential to living. I enjoy looking at what to spend it on, new car, new keyboard, I’m thinking of buying a laser cutter and a 3D printer, loads of options including the wife. It’s a miserable, cold, wet day here where I live in England so it helps to pass the time. Thanks again for the replies, have a good day.

[andyg]

I disagree with anyone who says buying a better keyboard will not make you a better player. That's nonsense.

I have to disagree with that!  It's a point that's been made for as many years as we've had home organs, and that's decades before keyboards. A lot of salesmen have pushed that line to potential customers. Some still do!

The plain fact is this. Having a better organ/keyboard will not in itself make you a better player any more than having a better car will make you a better driver. It won't wave a magic wand and give you more talent or abilities.

However, what it should do, is allow you to explore things that you didn't do before (with new features, voices and styles etc) and make you feel better about things you already do (with better voices and styles - that guitar, say, now really sounds like the sound you had in your head). And there's a certain pride in ownership of a new instrument, of course.

Put these things together and the 'feel good factor' created should make you more enthusiastic about your playing, may spur you on to do more practise and to try out new things. And that, over time rather than immediately, may well improve your playing.

[ugawoga]

 That is what we are saying a boost spurs you on.
As my schoolteacher said in my report "Must try harder and stop losing pencils"!!!!

[mikf]

There are as many reasons to buy a new instrument as there are reasons not to buy a new instrument.
In the case of Genos 2 though, there is zero data. We don’t know if the Genos 2 will be Genos 1 with a different paint color or a ground breaking instrument we can’t live without. In fact we don’t even know if it will ever exist. So the OPs question is impossible to answer.
Mike.

[Wim]

However, what it should do, is allow you to explore things that you didn't do before (with new features, voices and styles etc) and make you feel better about things you already do (with better voices and styles - that guitar, say, now really sounds like the sound you had in your head). And there's a certain pride in ownership of a new instrument, of course.

Put these things together and the 'feel good factor' created should make you more enthusiastic about your playing, may spur you on to do more practise and to try out new things. And that, over time rather than immediately, may well improve your playing.

I wonder what will really get better. Even more voices. There are already so many that hardly anyone uses them all. Even more effects?? The KNxxx series keyboards could not last this race. As well as Roland.
Make a default keyboard that will last for years (Eco). And as with the previously mentioned KN series. Create (different) memory cards with new voices. And buy these one you want and put them in your keyboard. Also, Yamaha buyers are now paying for features they don't use for whatever reason. Example Vocal Harmony.
gr
Wim

[mixermixer]

No, because I can't afford a Genos 1 anyway lol

[maartenb]

Audio quality
When I had a Tyros 5 I also wondered what could get better. However, recently I compared the audio files I had made on the Genos with the ones I made in the past with the Tyros 5. I used a good headphone (Yamaha HPH-MT8). I was in for a pleasant surprise. The Genos has much more "air"; frequencies above say 10 kHz. The Tyros 5 sounded "muffled" in the direct comparison to the Genos. It seems as if the sample frequency of the wave forms of the Genos is higher than the Tyros 5.

This reminded me of a conversation I had many years ago with a sound guy at the back of a large room. A Genos and large speaker system (FOH) were in the front. They were finished with the sound check. He said that he had never heard a cleaner signal from a keyboard. Normally he has to EQ the signal to fix the balance, but with the Genos he left the EQ flat.

To be clear, I am NOT saying the Tyros 5 has bad audio quality. Not at all. A Yamaha demonstrator on a Tyros 1 sounds better than me on a Genos. But the audio quality of the Genos is fantastic and was a nice improvement.


Other improvements from the past

• Tyros 1:
  Mega voices for more realistic guitar strumming in styles
• Tyros 2:
  Super Articulation voices, audio recording to hard disk,
• Tyros 3:
  Super Articulation 2 voices, more SA voices, FSX keybed, free-tempo styles
• Tyros 4:
  SA voices in styles, human voices, wave cycling, flash memory for expansion voices
• Tyros 5:
  Ensemble voices, Organ World, Visual effects units on screen, 76-key version
• Genos 1:
  Revo drums, pitch bend handle, new OS with new interface, touch screen, AEM (Articulation Element Modeling), arpeggios (216), chord looper (with v2 firmware), playlist for registrations, new audio output circuit with 32-bit Digital Audio Converter (DAC), three SA buttons, extra screen above the nine sliders and six knobs, pedal steel guitar (one note follows pitch bend, the other doesn't)

...and every time more voices and styles, more DSP effects and more memory for better samples.


Genos 2
Your guess is as good as mine. 

But improvements on the usability of the Chord Looper would be nice. Easy renaming of a chord sequence, or quantasizing comes to mind. Added fill downs instead of only fill ups to have a smoother transition from variation C or D to A would be nice, too. A decent half bar. And a pet peeve of mine: one single chord intro and outro per style, so you can match the chords of the intro/outro to the chords of the song you're playing.

But we'll see. The arranger team at Yamaha is very smart, and I'm looking forward to see what they've come up with!


Maarten

[valimaties]

Hi all.
I'm young, comparing to most of the users of this awesome forum. I have only 41 years old, and soon I will be 42. I think I can say in the name of all of users of my age that time changes, with every year which goes some things matters more than others. For me, in this moment,  as long as I can afford, and looking at my kind of using keyboards, YES I wait for new keyboards (I only play arrangers, so other type of keybords are not part of my interest). I wait for the new Genos to come, to see how the software was improved, how the hardware was improved. And if somehow this can HELP me in my musical journey, I will change the Genos with the second version. I must wait, I must see if it's worth it. And the analise of this is not by seeing only some demos on the youtube, but I must waiting to see what other users says about it, if they are major improvements in design and functionality, if they are major bugs.


Best regards folks,
Vali

[ugawoga]

Well Vali we all need that seemless switching and hopefully a much easier way of making our own styles even if Yamaha made a computer program. The nearest thing to do this was the EMC Styleworks, but as we know that is now defunct. At the moment it is too much fiddling to just make one style.
Apart from having more space for samples, the seamless swithching and style making is enough for me as Cubase can do the rest.
Of course we all hope that sounds like guitars, strings etc are more advanced.
It is going to be a long month ahead.
I am young at 72,you just get a few more aches and pains and hope you do not get man problems.

[ugawoga]

You know something don't you Christian!!!

[maartenb]

He does, and he is so kind to share it here without bringing his source into trouble.


Maarten

[rphillipchuk]

It's been almost 5 months since I parted ways with the Genos 1 and the location of the "baby" is ready as it appears in a photo that I I published recently.

Christian

Please upload that pic here.

[p$manK32]

Please upload that pic here.

I think there’s a better chance of getting a clear UFO photo than a supposed leaked Genos2 photo 

[RonsonDenmark]

• Genos 1:
  [..] pedal steel guitar (one note follows pitch bend, the other doesn't)

I don't know if the functions are 100% identical, but Tyros 5 also has the pedal steel pitch bend function where only the lowest note bends.

[rattley]

Greetings!

I've enjoyed every Yamaha arranger I have owned and each has been an improvement over the last model. Some more than others!  My first arranger that wasn't a toy was a PSR2000 followed by PSR3000, Tyros 2,3,4,5 and now Genos.  The main reason I upgrade has been sound quality. Yamaha's insistence on backwards compatibility is a huge factor too. I can play styles over 20 years old that play perfectly or require minimal adjustment.

I have no doubt I will be one of the first ones to buy a new Genos model. Whenever it comes out is fine with me. My love affair with my current Genos is not ready to end. However I may have to cheat on my Genos 1 when I sneak Genos 2 in the back door!!  -charley

[ugawoga]

I think there’s a better chance of getting a clear UFO photo than a supposed leaked Genos2 photo 

I bet Bob Lazar is back engineering it already in Hangar 18

[rodrigo.b]

Yes, I love the Genos but there is a lot to improve, for example more realistic guitars, the possibility of creating Megavoice and SA2 Voices, a better and easier style creator, etc.

[ton37]

Oh well, it's up to everyone if it matters whether there is a Genos 2/3 (or whatever it is called). Many have updated after the Tyros 1, to 2, to 3 etc. to Genos (1). Because it is again a new one and they will find enough arguments to justify the purchase   So, it does really matter having a Genos 2 ... for the pure Yammie Lovers 

[ugawoga]

What i really do not understand is ,we already have Genos 2.
Should it not be called Genos 3??

[rattley]

I have also been a bit confused on the Genos 1 or Genos 2 labeling.  When Genos 1 had a major update (Was it when the Superior Pack was released? )   After that I seem to remember seeing a listing for Genos 2. This was way before we were told of any future Genos models.  I thought seeing a Genos 2 in the listing meant that (that) Genos was already fully upgraded to the latest firmware.    Now we see listings for Genos 2 and are assuming it is a brand new physical model being released.

Just my observation......................  -charley

[usaraiya]

What i really do not understand is ,we already have Genos 2.
Should it not be called Genos 3??

On the Yamaha website, the current TOTL Arranger says Genos and below that Version 2.1 and NOT Genos 2, so we have a Genos with OS 2.1 currently, and the next Genos will probably be Genos 2 (with OS1.1 or similar)
It doesn't matter what you call it, it's all good and should be packed with new features, and I am looking forward to it!

 
Uday

[EileenL]

It is still Genos 1 with Version 2 update.

[J. Larry]

If an authentic, for real Genos 2 shows up before Christmas, who’ll win the prize for the discovery and first post about it?

[Del B]

If an authentic, for real Genos 2 shows up before Christmas, who’ll win the prize for the discovery and first post about it?

probably Christian

[colas musique]

Good evening,

To all those who doubt or wallow in doubt, I can tell them that many pre-orders have already been made in Europe and that suppliers are only waiting for Yamaha's official announcement of marketing to proceed with deliveries.
What I'm telling you is already discussed in some forums.

Next month will be decisive.

Now everyone thinks what they want.

Christian

[Oldden]

I’m more than happy if they kept the keyboard and upgraded to operating system to 2.5 or 3.0

[p$manK32]

….I can tell them that many pre-orders have already been made in Europe and that suppliers are only waiting for Yamaha's official announcement of marketing to proceed with deliveries…..What I'm telling you is already discussed in some forums.

What forums would those be? And give us a general idea where your source is from. Word of mouth? Someone you know at Yamaha? Someone in the supply chain?

[Del B]

I believe Christian, why would he have sold his Genos and he has not recorded any new songs lately, that’s why I said he will probably be the one to divulge here first. I’m looking forward to the new flagship arriving because I will get one I just have not made up my mind to where I will buy, I might even part ex my T5 for a Korg PAx5 depending what deal I can reach

And Christian will not divulge his source because that would put him in a position not to be trusted, and you never know Christian may possibly work for yamaha

[ugawoga]

Hope Christian is right that is all i can say.


According to quantum law under the Copenhagen interpretation, the cat will be both dead and alive until someone looks in the box. In quantum mechanics lingo, the cat's ability to be both alive and dead until it is observed is referred to as quantum indeterminacy or the observer's paradox.
So we will have to wait until we can open the box to see if the Genos 2 is  alive or dead 
86mph Mc Fly "Back To The Future"!!

[rattley]

Hello!

"I’m more than happy if they kept the keyboard and upgraded to operating system to 2.5 or 3.0"..................I could be very happy if they just did that.  It would fit in better for my schedule. -charley

[p$manK32]

And Christian will not divulge his source because that would put him in a position not to be trusted, and you never know Christian may possibly work for yamaha

Yeah, I hope he’s right, but we just don’t know yet. I’d still like to see a link to the forums he mentioned.

[mikf]

Hello!

"I’m more than happy if they kept the keyboard and upgraded to operating system to 2.5 or 3.0"..................I could be very happy if they just did that.  It would fit in better for my schedule. -charley

That’s because you are assuming the upgrade would provide some or all the improvements you want. But that never or seldom happens with Yamaha. If they issue an operating system change to 2.5 or whatever it would be more likely just to fix a bug in some function you seldom use.
The ‘Yamaha way’ is to have any real improvements built into in the new hardware - that you have to buy to get them! I’m not saying that is bad or wrong, just that is how it is.
Mike

[colas musique]

Good morning,

I actually sold my Genos before last summer but also before it lost too much of its value knowing that the price of new models has already fallen.
Imagine what second-hand prices will soon be like.
So, of course, like everyone else, I'm waiting impatiently because 5 months without being able to play is very, very hard and I can't imagine waiting another 6 months.
If I had not considered the information received to be reliable, I would still be in possession of my device.

I can't tell you more.
Christian

[soundphase]

That’s because you are assuming the upgrade would provide some or all the improvements you want. But that never or seldom happens with Yamaha. If they issue an operating system change to 2.5 or whatever it would be more likely just to fix a bug in some function you seldom use.
The ‘Yamaha way’ is to have any real improvements built into in the new hardware - that you have to buy to get them! I’m not saying that is bad or wrong, just that is how it is.
Mike

Just for the discussion.

From Electone ELS-01 to ELS-02 there was an hardware module update (ELSU-V02).
For the planet it could also be better to adopt such modular design in the future.
For example, the keyboard, the screen, can be kept over several generations. I understand it could mean a very different approach with a lot of new issues to resolve.

[Jeff Hollande]

Good morning,

I actually sold my Genos before last summer.
If I had not considered the information received to be reliable, I would still be in possession of my device.

I can't tell you more.
Christian

Without her/his beloved instrument every musician feels bad and sad.
JH

[ton37]

For a few dollars more or less I doubt if that (financial) works, but everyone makes his own decision. The first owners generally pays a major price for future pricedrops. They who wait some months generally pays less, so at the end .... ??

[ugawoga]

For a few dollars more or less I doubt if that (financial) works, but everyone makes his own decision. The first owners generally pays a major price for future pricedrops. They who wait some months generally pays less, so at the end .... ??

I had a great part x deal From Epiano's from new and a 5 year guarantee.
You cannot wack that.
For a couple of hundred each way, i say have it in the now.

Nice to see Jeff on the scene again. I hear he has be finishing Franz Schubert's Symphony No.8