Topic: Just thought of an idea for future arranger keyboards.

[Keyboard Master]

It is having fewer styles in the preset I know Yamaha provides lots anyway but what if for example they put only 100-200 styles at least keep the most popular ones in the preset area. but since it can have a huge user memory users can download as many styles as they want. I’m curious what are your thoughts on if Yamaha did that.

[Divemaster]

Put quite simply, who is to decide what the most popular ones are?
I play easy listening, you might play blues, my wife might play heavy rock (now there's a thought) 🤣

I doubt there would even be a market for an arranger keyboard with so few styles. What suits one player is not necessarily what suits others.

At this very moment, I have several usb drives with literally hundreds of various styles on them depending on what I fancy playing today.

I think Yamaha have it pretty well sorted as it is.

Keith

[Keyboard Master]

Put quite simply, who is to decide what the most popular ones are?
I play easy listening, you might play blues, my wife might play heavy rock (now there's a thought) 🤣

I doubt there would even be a market for an arranger keyboard with so few styles. What suits one player is not what suits others.

At this very moment, I have several usb drives with literally hundreds of various styles on them depending on what I fancy playing today.

I think Yamaha have it pretty well sorted as it is.

Keith

Cool. 😎 and I agree Yamaha will just stick with what they currently put in them😎

[Fred Smith]

It is having fewer styles in the preset I know Yamaha provides lots anyway but what if for example they put only 100-200 styles at least keep the most popular ones in the preset area. but since it can have a huge user memory users can download as many styles as they want. I’m curious what are your thoughts on if Yamaha did that.

Why is that any different from what we have now? I can download styles and put them on the User drive.

Cheers,
Fred

[RoyB]

I have for a long time had the idea of a 'modular' arranger keyboard, where the purchaser buys a basic (lower cost) model with the core functions and features and a limited number of core voices and styles, and then it is up to the purchaser to buy any add-on features, voices, styles, etc that best suits him/her. This is different to just offering 'expansion' styles and voices, because in my scenario the 'extras' becomes a fully integrated part of the OS and preset voices/styles etc, (expanding the scope of the features and functions of the OS), rather than being regarded as expansion extras residing in a separate expansion allocation.

I fully expect that this is a pipe-dream and it will never happen like that.

However, Roland has just released its RD-08 stage piano which goes just a tiny way along that concept. You buy a "lean, mean" streamlined 'essentials' version piano ,which is then system upgradeable, to add expanded functions, features and sounds, by purchasing an Upgrade pack.. 

[DrakeM]

Yamaha needs to include hundreds more styles on their keyboards not less.

As for how Yamaha is loading their keyboards now, they should allow users the ability to freely download all the styles from their previous keyboards.
Customers should not have to surf the internet to find and download them.

Styles are very small and one web page ought to be able to handle the job. 

Drake

[mixermixer]

What a terrible idea, taking away instead of adding. If anything, Yamaha needs to add more base storage, the chips are cheap...

[RoyB]

You mis-understood the concept. You don't downgrade the hardware. You just optionally upgrade the operating system functionality and software content if you want to. This is what Roland are doing with their RD-08 stage piano.

[bpsafran]

I think the problem is deeper than hardware
or software. Yamaha would have to upgrade
all the old styles to use the new voices and effects
of the Genos2,  which is an investment of time
by their musicians/style designers; that would
also have to include revising all the OTS.  I am not
justifying Yamaha's not doing that, but explaining
why they only included the 800 styles on Genos2.
Everyone of them  including their OTS, use the
best new voices and effects of the Genos2,
when applicable.  I do think that considering the
price of the Genos2, they should have upgraded
the Complete and Premium packs from the Genos1
voices and effects  to those if Genos2. I am still hoping
they will do this.

[Joe H]

You can get all the styles you want for any keyboard right here:

https://psrtutorial.com/sty/yamaha/index.html

Joe H

[bpsafran]

Thanks, Joe.  But for owners of the latest keyboard (Genos2 in my case), the styles for the older keyboards, while compatible, use the older voices and effects and one is not maximizing the potential of Genos2 by using those styles and OTS as they now exist.  I realize that it is a major undertaking for someone to go through each style and optimize its voices, reverbs and effects for Genos2.  But that is something Yamaha has done with the 800 styles  and OTS on the Genos2, that do include some - but not all - older styles.  All 800 have been updated to use the best Genos2 voices and effects.  Yamaha did give Genos2 owners access to the Genos Complete Pack for Genos2 which provides an additional ~110 styles (that were on Genos1 and did not make it to Genos2) and OTS. But Yamaha did not make the (non-negligible) effort to update those to the level of the Genos2 voices and effects, so they remain at the level of Genos1.  The same goes for the Premium Packs.  Thus, compatibility with Genos2 (which does exist for older styles, Complete Pack, and Genos2-compatible Premium Packs) is not the same as optimizing older styles and OTS to maximize their potential when played on Genos2.  One doesn't even have to reprogram the style or OTS itself; one can just make registrations that do all the revoicing and reassignment of effects. It requires musicianship and Genos2 experience, as well as time, and should be done by Yamaha.

Sam

[pjd]

However, Roland has just released its RD-08 stage piano which goes just a tiny way along that concept. You buy a "lean, mean" streamlined 'essentials' version piano ,which is then system upgradeable, to add expanded functions, features and sounds, by purchasing an Upgrade pack..

Not to be too negative, but this idea of Roland's for the RD-08 got absolutely trashed by people on the Musicplayer Keyboard Forum.

Two other thoughts...

Style conversion/updating takes effort and costs money. There isn't any magic updating tool that will batch convert the hundreds and thousands of styles out there.

The number of styles in a keyboard is an easy, marketing check-off item. Naive or relatively uninformed customers can easily say, "Oh, that keyboard has 800 styles while that one only has 400." Yeah, that's a thing in retail consumer electronics.

All the best -- pj

[Keyboard Master]

Yes I totally understand I know adding styles is always the best. I’d prefer styles to always keep adding. Of course expand the user drive to add thousands of styles for extra content: etc.

[rattley]

Hello!

I guess I think a bit differently. I don't care if a brand new keyboard comes with 100 or 1000 styles. You are going to add or modify as many styles as you need to build your playlist. Yamaha did an excellent job supplying new and upgraded styles for Genos2. If  they all were poorly made I would have never used them in the first place. Finding styles isn't the real problem for me. Since everyone has a different opinion on what genre of styles they like I think it's futile trying to come up with 1000 or whatever amount of styles to please everyone. I could possess several styles of the top most quality but they would be of no use to me if it wasn't in one of my favorite genres. Having 100 excellent trance styles only means something if you use trance styles!

One of the best things to happen in our music world over the years is how tiny so many of the music files have become and the price of storage.  USB sticks are so convenient. I remember using floppys on some earlier keyboards. As long as you can keep adding unlimited content you can keep your keyboard "fresh".  With all this cheap memory one could have 100,000 style files!!!!    And I do!!!!!  -charley

[BogdanH]

I agree with charley -although I don't have that many styles 
Preset styles (a little of everything) are there just so we have something to start with. My keyboard has about 500+ styles, where I maybe use only ten of them. I like 60's blues music, however among those 500 styles there's not a single blues style! But I don't complain... because on arranger, not only I can add styles at will, I can also create them.
I see voices much more problematic in this regard.

Bogdan

[Joe H]

Sam,

The styles from older keyboards should play just fine on Genos2.  The Legacy Voices are there so the styles should play as programed for the original keyboard.  Download which styles you are interested in and give it a try.

 

Joe H

[bpsafran]

You are correct, Joe. My point is that those styles and OTS
use the Legacy voices and effects and not the
new voices and effects of Genos2.  For the 800
built-in styles of Genos2, Yamaha reprogrammed
styles and OTS from Genos1 to use the best, new Genos2
voices and effects.

Sam

[mikf]

Realistically how much difference would the G2 voices and effects make to the old styles? Maybe for really old keyboards, but anything within the last 7 or 8 years ……I am not sure anyone would really notice.
Mike

[bpsafran]

I recently went from a Tyros5 to a Genos2 and
the differences in many important voices,
reverbs and effects are clearly heard
and very noticeably improved.
The drums and drum effects are particularly very
much enhanced.
Using the new Genos2 voices applies not
only to the styles and drums, but to the
right hand playing via the reprogrammed OTS
for the many "old"  styles included in the 800
of the Genis2.  Also, the velocity
and aftertouch response are excellent and palpable
as you are playing.   Youtube comparisons  even through
headphones cannot match the synergism of all
this during playing. (I have no affiliation with Yamaha
or any dealer.)

[Joe H]

You are correct, Joe. My point is that those styles and OTS
use the Legacy voices and effects and not the
new voices and effects of Genos2...

Sam

"Nothing ventured nothing gained"

It's not that hard or time consuming to remix old styles with the new Genos2 Voices and effects.  Besides; a lot of those styles are already in Genos2

 

Joe H

[Keyboard Master]

All an all. I really wasn’t actually trying to submit an idea about it it saying what if. But all’s an all for future keyboards 🎹 add like 1000 styles for example then the keyboard comes with tons to play with

[Amwilburn]

Realistically how much difference would the G2 voices and effects make to the old styles? Maybe for really old keyboards, but anything within the last 7 or 8 years ……I am not sure anyone would really notice.
Mike

This is exactly what shocked me about the G2:
even going back 1 generation to the G1, there is a chasm of difference between the Sci Fi March and Movie Soundtrack styles. It's not even subtle; *everyone* where I a/b'd the 2 side by side could immediately hear the difference, and was shocked by it ("this is only 1 generation apart??"). So I completely understand Safran's lament about wanting more styles up to the Genos 2 level.

*However*, not every style comparing G1 to G2 has that huge a gulf of improvement, some are, indeed, subtle. Movie Panther, it sounds more *real*, but it's not a giant leap of difference from G1 to G2. Country Songwriter, the difference was so subtle that it appeared to be only the reverb that was different. Sames goes for 80s Analog Ballad.

But go to anything that's big and orchestral; Big Band Crooner also sees a world of difference between the 2 versions (but they even changed Intro 3, so it's not even the same notes)

But yeah, if/when you get a chance, compare Sci Fi March and Movie Sountrack. The difference is astounding.
But only on some styles. I've yet to find an old pop/rock/country styles that's *really* different, except 80sRockAnthem (We Will Rock You) which again, sounds wildly different, but *both* G1 & G2 versions sound inferior to the Audio Style, so...

It appears they spent most of their energy creating amazing new styles, which they accomplished.

Mark

[Amwilburn]

All an all. I really wasn’t actually trying to submit an idea about it it saying what if. But all’s an all for future keyboards 🎹 add like 1000 styles for example then the keyboard comes with tons to play with

The Genos 2 already arrived on launch date with 911 styles (800 preset + Genos complete pack, nearly 1000), just FYI. The G1 and T5 launched with 540 and 539 respectively.


And yet, we still need more!!!

Mark

[bpsafran]

Mark, even if they are not fundamentally revised,
almost all the Genos2 styles use the new reverb.
More importantly, the OTS use the top quality and
new voices and effects, including the
newly calibrated aftertouch.
The OTS show off
 the new features and are a good basis for
your own registrations.

[Amwilburn]

Mark, even if they are not fundamentally revised,
almost all the Genos2 styles use the new reverb.
More importantly, the OTS use the top quality and
new voices and effects, including the
newly calibrated aftertouch.
The OTS show off
 the new features and are a good basis for
your own registrations.

Exactly why the large improvement in some styles was a surprise!
And yes, exactly all of this!

Mark

[ugawoga]

Why not just have a million styles on a usb stick?
Use what you need
 

[EileenL]

Hi John,
  No doubt some people do have this amount on a USB and then use around twenty of them.