Topic: Yamaha Genos 2 and Korg Pa5x Tutorial: Midi Song to Style App

[robinez]

Yamaha Genos 2 and Korg Pa5x Tutorial: Midi Song to Style App
here is the promised tutorial I made where I show you the app in real time

In this tutorial we are going to take a look at the new Yamaha program called: Midi Song to Style,
with the app you can convert midi files to full styles and the program does most of the hard work for you. We will learn how to create your own sections in a style, we will learn how to fix wrong keys in intros and variations and we will learn how to create melodic parts instead of the default one note phrases this program creates.

With this program you can create styles for the Yamaha Genos 2, Yamaha Genos 1, Yamaha PSR-A5000, PSR-SX600, PSR-SX700, PSR-SX900.

And because it's really easy to convert yamaha styles to korg pa5x styles, the korg pa5x users can also use this program to quickly convert midi files to yamaha styles and you can use your korg Pa5x as the sound source in this program. After that it's just a matter of renaming the marker labels and import that new file into the korg pa5x. There is a tutorial about how to convert yamaha styles to korg pa5x styles on my youtube channel. At the end of the video I will add a tile link with that specific tutorial.

Topics
00:00 application config and setup for the Yamaha Genos and the Korg Pa5x
02:34 convert Billie Joel - Piano Man and set variations
10:04 convert Duran Duran - Ordinary world and fix the song key
19:57 convert Righeira - Vamos A La Playa and create phrases

you can find the tutorial over here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRgZ5nE715c

[Des O]

Excellent, I shall study this.

Thx
Des

[Divemaster]

Yamaha Genos 2 and Korg Pa5x Tutorial: Midi Song to Style App
here is the promised tutorial I made where I show you the app in real time

In this tutorial we are going to take a look at the new Yamaha program called: Midi Song to Style,
with the app you can convert midi files to full styles and the program does most of the hard work for you. We will learn how to create your own sections in a style, we will learn how to fix wrong keys in intros and variations and we will learn how to create melodic parts instead of the default one note phrases this program creates.

With this program you can create styles for the Yamaha Genos 2, Yamaha Genos 1, Yamaha PSR-A5000, PSR-SX600, PSR-SX700, PSR-SX900.

And because it's really easy to convert yamaha styles to korg pa5x styles, the korg pa5x users can also use this program to quickly convert midi files to yamaha styles and you can use your korg Pa5x as the sound source in this program. After that it's just a matter of renaming the marker labels and import that new file into the korg pa5x. There is a tutorial about how to convert yamaha styles to korg pa5x styles on my youtube channel. At the end of the video I will add a tile link with that specific tutorial.

Topics
00:00 application config and setup for the Yamaha Genos and the Korg Pa5x
02:34 convert Billie Joel - Piano Man and set variations
10:04 convert Duran Duran - Ordinary world and fix the song key
19:57 convert Righeira - Vamos A La Playa and create phrases

you can find the tutorial over here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRgZ5nE715c

Thanks for this. Very useful information as I'm going to to order a Korg PA-5X next
week.

Thank you.
Keith.

[Duurduur]

Y
Topics
00:00 application config and setup for the Yamaha Genos and the Korg Pa5x
02:34 convert Billie Joel - Piano Man and set variations
10:04 convert Duran Duran - Ordinary world and fix the song key
19:57 convert Righeira - Vamos A La Playa and create phrases

I have a lot of midi's and I have converted some with this program. I used the "Easy" way but never has a good sounding style at the end.
Maybe you can share one (or all) of the used midi's. Using this midi's maybe I can get the same result.

Thanks in advance,
Ruud

[vlbrgt]

Thanks a lot Robinez. Great tutorial.
Would it be possible to receive the used midi files in your tutorial ?

Regards
Etienne

[Des O]

Excellent Robinez, your last example explained my issue with the same note perfectly. I can now try that.
If I am converting all my midis prior to the key I play in then use M2F does every section A, B, C, D etc need to be in that key if there is no key change So every section is all in C, F or whatever?
Just one more question, in the detail edit and you open up the track parameters where you show active for main etc, what are all the other adjustments for? I was adjusting the key for every section on the edit screen at the bottom right, next to the file key info.
Thank you for your hard work and time on this, much appreciated.

Des

[jazzy_beat]

Hi Qui Robinez, the last 2 examples in your tutorial solve my problems converting a Midi file to a Style.

Many thanks for your help...!.

[Bill]

Hi Qui

Many many thanks for the great work you have done. It will certainly help me and many more people.

I cannot thank you enough.

Regards

Bill

[ugawoga]

Hi Qui

 My music theory is not 100%,but i do get what you did with ordinary lives to get it back to C#minor.
I had it in my head that you keep the intros as they are but the playing parts to all be in Cmaj7th so the Genos recognizes your chord changes when playing.
Can you put me right on this as i am a little confused here. I will be there once i cleared my head of this.
All the best
John

Great video

[robinez]

Hi Qui

 My music theory is not 100%,but i do get what you did with ordinary lives to get it back to C#minor.
I had it in my head that you keep the intros as they are but the playing parts to all be in Cmaj7th so the Genos recognizes your chord changes when playing.
Can you put me right on this as i am a little confused here. I will be there once i cleared my head of this.
All the best
John

Great video

that depends on the source midi file.

But in most cases midi files from external sources are in the root key of the original song, so you have to correct it as follows:
- the intro's and endings always need to be set to the correct key. You can easily see on the screen what key they are in when you click the marker (like intro 2) then you see at the bottom right next to the diagram a section info panel where you quickly can see which root key was assigned to it. So always modify this to ensure that the chord recognition of the intro's and endings work correctly
- the main and fills can have different keys, this depends on the part that is selected automatically by the software. Just check it by playing it and if it isn't correct than correct the key and this will solve the chord recognition

It's not hard once you know how to do it, and if you are unsure about music theory then just play one note on your keyboard till you hear the bass note of that chord, in most cases this is the key you have to set that section in (with the correct minor or major setting).

[kiplis]

Hi Robinez.

Thank you very much for your excellent video, once again.
Would you recommend to use PSRUTI and MEGAEnhanger
before starting to convert the midi files with MIDI Song to Style
app?

[ugawoga]

Hi QUI

Thanks for you explanation i see what you mean  and i have to get to grips when i get the new Genos 2 sometime i hope this week.
I remember with EMC styleworks i struggled with getting the main parts right and always had to fiddle with the minus and plus 1's to get things right and go back and forwards until everything followed what i was playing. The Intro's and endings were as per song key.
Thank you very much for putting me right and i will keep at it until i understand the why's as well.

Never stop learning.

Big thanks Qui

All the Best
John

[Rick D.]

This is a great tutorial on Midi 2 Style programs. Best I have seen so far. This is a powerful tool!

Thanks for posting it,

Rick D.

[robinez]

Hi Robinez.

Thank you very much for your excellent video, once again.
Would you recommend to use PSRUTI and MEGAEnhanger
before starting to convert the midi files with MIDI Song to Style
app?

I don't know these tools, but I would convert the original midi files without changing them with other tools.

[Des O]

I don't know these tools, but I would convert the original midi files without changing them with other tools.

Psrruti takes out the unwanted notes/errors and optimisation of the midi By clicking Optimize XG, also you can convert the key of the midi here to the key you want the file or you play in by clicking Transpose. It takes away the need to change key in Midi to Style.

Megaenhancer changes the voices or recommends SAvoices to use on the midi file, just put in the keyboard voice file, good for Genos and sounds better when converting later, saves changing voices in Midi to Style later.

It helps overall to clean up the midi before converting.

Des

[ugawoga]

I typed in PSRUTI for keyboards to find out what it is and what i got back was.

Parrot Vs Mechanical Keyboard lol!!

[kiplis]

Psrruti takes out the unwanted notes/errors and optimisation of the midi By clicking Optimize XG, also you can convert the key of the midi here to the key you want the file or you play in by clicking Transpose. It takes away the need to change key in Midi to Style.

Megaenhancer changes the voices or recommends SAvoices to use on the midi file, just put in the keyboard voice file, good for Genos and sounds better when converting later, saves changing voices in Midi to Style later.

It helps overall to clean up the midi before converting.

Des

So, using all these three programs as needed, and starting with a reasonable midi file should give you the best results?

[Des O]

So, using all these three programs as needed, and starting with a reasonable midi file should give you the best results?

I do, it's a matter of choice not a requirement. You put the best quality you can in Midi to Style to get the best out.
Make sure you install your keyboard definition file in Megaenhancer.

[Des O]

I typed in PSRUTI for keyboards to find out what it is and what i got back was.

Parrot Vs Mechanical Keyboard lol!!

Here's the link, Casper Tutorsynth has a video on this on YouTube.
https://www.heikoplate.de/psruti.html

[kiplis]

Here's the link, Casper Tutorsynth has a video on this on YouTube.
https://www.heikoplate.de/psruti.html

And MEGAEnhancer from Yamaha.   

[Des O]

And MEGAEnhancer from Yamaha.

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/support/updates/megaenhancer_for_win.html

[mikf]

Excellent video.
Question, - would it not be easier if you import midis that are not in C into the keyboard first, convert the midi it to C maj, save, then import it into the program to create style?
Mike

[Des O]

Excellent video.
Question, - would it not be easier if you import midis that are not in C into the keyboard first, convert the midi it to C maj, save, then import it into the program to create style?
Mike

I have not tried that myself but it sounds like time consuming. The method I use as above I can convert in seconds and enhance in seconds, no adjustments required and convert to style in under 1 minute.

[robinez]

Excellent video.
Question, - would it not be easier if you import midis that are not in C into the keyboard first, convert the midi it to C maj, save, then import it into the program to create style?
Mike

no in my opinion it wouldn't be easier, just import the midi file and set the section info to the corresponding key. It's much faster then preparing midi files to the C major key and then importing it. But if you prefer the C major method, then that will work also of course. So just use it the way you like it 

[Des O]

I just spent 3 hours with limited success, complicated midis, trying to pack too much in each section, messing with parameters and melody lines.
I've decided to be methodical if it's not too my liking first off then I will delete sections and start fresh naming line by line melodic or not adjusting each one. It's time consuming but it's a learning curve as some channels you cannot manipulate. I've also downloaded the instruction manual as well as watching the video over. Not actually getting much practise playing in though!

[robinez]

I just spent 3 hours with limited success, complicated midis, trying to pack too much in each section, messing with parameters and melody lines.
I've decided to be methodical if it's not too my liking first off then I will delete sections and start fresh naming line by line melodic or not adjusting each one. It's time consuming but it's a learning curve as some channels you cannot manipulate. I've also downloaded the instruction manual as well as watching the video over. Not actually getting much practise playing in though!

just curious, what problems couldn't you solve when converting midi files?

[pjd]

Hi Des O --

If you're new to style development, I'd suggest going slow. Start simple -- just bass and drum. Build up and learn along the way.

Even with this great tool, there is a lot to assimilate, know and apply about styles.

Stay sane, stay encouraged -- pj

[ugawoga]

Hi Robinez

Ok saying that the other guys want to use the C major method.I get that.

Now when you play ordinary lives and convert to C# everything after that follows.
What i am saying is that converting the key to the song in this program, you can still play any chord like the C major method. Every thing follows whatever chord that you play on the Genos in reality.

Am i right here?

I have a feeling that the chords in your tutorial will only follow the key of that song only
If you want to say perform that song in C, it might not work unless you convert what the Genos is based on C Major 7th.

Well, Robinez can you put me right here as my head is trying to get around this.
I must be close now lol!!. Once it is in my head i will not forget. It is harder to learn as you get older.
I understand those fine points of getting the song in line in the last section.
I do not mind getting egg on my face,live by the sword and die by the sword.

All the best
John

[Des O]

Hi Des O --

If you're new to style development, I'd suggest going slow. Start simple -- just bass and drum. Build up and learn along the way.

Even with this great tool, there is a lot to assimilate, know and apply about styles.

Stay sane, stay encouraged -- pj

Hi Pj,

I've had success today to great songs completed!

Starting to get use to it now and understanding how it works. As qui said you can change the key for each section etc.
Sounds better when put through Megahenacher first.

2 more in development 

[Des O]

Hi Robinez

Ok saying that the other guys want to use the C major method.I get that.

Now when you play ordinary lives and convert to C# everything after that follows.
What i am saying is that converting the key to the song in this program, you can still play any chord like the C major method. Every thing follows whatever chord that you play on the Genos in reality.

Am i right here?

I have a feeling that the chords in your tutorial will only follow the key of that song only
If you want to say perform that song in C, it might not work unless you convert what the Genos is based on C Major 7th.

Well, Robinez can you put me right here as my head is trying to get around this.
I must be close now lol!!. Once it is in my head i will not forget. It is harder to learn as you get older.
I understand those fine points of getting the song in line in the last section.
I do not mind getting egg on my face,live by the sword and die by the sword.

All the best
John

Hi John,

You can change it in each section as you go along, no need to change key. I put it in the key I play it in and work with that. Double check before you save it.

Des

[ugawoga]

Hi Des
What i am trying to get my head around is ---

If all done in C maj7th  no matter what key the song is in your chords will follow.

I am thinking if you do it in the key of the song then you can only play the song in that key.
So if you played another song in a different key it would be garbled and not make sense.
Do you know what i am trying to say.
Am i getting things wrong in my head here??
I just would like to know the why's

All the best
John

[robinez]

Now when you play ordinary lives and convert to C# everything after that follows.
What i am saying is that converting the key to the song in this program, you can still play any chord like the C major method. Every thing follows whatever chord that you play on the Genos in reality.

Am i right here?

I have a feeling that the chords in your tutorial will only follow the key of that song only
If you want to say perform that song in C, it might not work unless you convert what the Genos is based on C Major 7th.

it works as follows in the video,
if you set the chord information for that intro section (for instance that section in the midi file is originally in C#minor) then you have to set that section to C#m.

Because you have set this to C#m, the system knows how to read the existing notes and you can play ANY key you want after that, lets say that you want to play that intro then in F major, then that works also and all the minor thirds will be automatically played as major thirds.

So there is absolutely no need to convert everything to Cmajor.

If you want to have a more in-depth explanation of how arrangers do this you could watch my creating styles tutorial for the korg pa5x. Although my pa5x tutorials are for the korg, a lot of the concepts explained in those tutorials (like for instance the polymeter arpeggiator pads) can also be done on the yamaha arrangers once you know the theory behind it.

in this tutorial I explain how to create styles from cubase midi files on a korg pa5x, It's not interesting for the people here, but the section that starts at 19:45 explains why you can use any key
with the note translation tables. So maybe that is something that you can use to understand why you can set it to any key.

that tutorial can be found here and skip to 19:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9PP4o0cdE0

[ugawoga]

Hi Robinez

I think i have a handle on it now.
So converting songs to play correctly they have to be in the key they were originally made and as you say the machine knows where to go when playing chords after you have gone that route.
Am i in the ballpark now?
This Genos program will also make your life easier as making styles using Cubase is a little long winded.
I am still waiting for my Genos 2 and the wait is agonising. Hopefully this week , but it is what it is, patience.
The wait also has been so long for a decent stylemaker.
It is always essential to know the ins and outs otherwise i will be floundering

All the Best
John and thank you very much for your time to explain, much appreciated.

Ps I will also take the time to learn the programs nuances!!

[Des O]

Hi Robinez

I think i have a handle on it now.
So converting songs to play correctly they have to be in the key they were originally made and as you say the machine knows where to go when playing chords after you have gone that route.
Am i in the ballpark now?
This Genos program will also make your life easier as making styles using Cubase is a little long winded.
I am still waiting for my Genos 2 and the wait is agonising. Hopefully this week , but it is what it is, patience.
The wait also has been so long for a decent stylemaker.
It is always essential to know the ins and outs otherwise i will be floundering

All the Best
John and thank you very much for your time to explain, much appreciated.

Ps I will also take the time to learn the programs nuances!!

Hi John,

It is hard to get your head around at first but this programme is a lot more easy and successful once you start to see what going on by trial and error in some cases. The assumption about Cmaj in my experience is based on when your create styles in Genos that everything must be in C. It has been explained that it is not always the case.
Other programme I never got my head around them as even my first attempts failed but with this way much better, in some case you can create a style in under 10 mins! with minimal effort and depending on the complexity of the midi.
All I do is check each section is in the key I want, test each one with my keyboard input and double check before saving, and even mess with the melody lines (active for main etc) and walla! even major melodies going on in the background in some cases.
Some bar lengths need changing in some, no big deal and intros/endings extending and breaks.
This programme makes it a lot quicker and enjoyable than ever, recently I spent more time creating styles than actually playing! Its a case of what can I do next?
The only trouble I have found, perhaps some instruction required is changing the octaves in some channels, not had much success with that yet.

Maybe Robinez could help with that if he is willing to do a part 2?

Keep at it and it will just click! the eureka moment!

I have also found it save some work if its cleaned up before I load a file, load a midi into PSRutti and click XG, that takes out unwanted notes etc in seconds and then change the whole midi if required to the key you want or play in by clicking Transpose in seconds.
save it, then I move it into Yamaha Megaenhancer and it recommends what changes to make to the voices for Genos to save doing changes in Midi to Style later, and sounds much better when you first here it in Midi to Style. No time at all just a couple of minutes.

 

Des
 

[maarkr]

As a new SX900 owner and learning the ropes for building/importing songs, I thank you for your informative video. For one,  I get confused and need to learn more about the use of key signatures in the instrument and the midi sections.  I also was wondering if there is a pdf manual explaining the Section/Channel/Zone Setting details?
Edit: nm I found the manual in the app duh, but a version 2 of the video would be informative.

[Al Ram]

Forum Friends,

I do not really user midis, however, this concept seems very interesting to me.

So, trying to learn from this video tutorial . . . . . . . struggling a bit . . . . . but still trying . . . . .

can someone please tell me how or where to get the 3 midi files that are mentioned in the video tutorial ? (including Piano Man and the other 2).

It will be greatly appreciated.   thanks in advance.

[valimaties]

Al Ram, you don't need exactly those 3 midi files. Take a midi file, any of what do you have, and try creating a style from it using this software. The video describes what can happening when using different complexity midi files. Take the video as a generic style creation from a midi file tutorial, nothing more than that!

Regards,
Vali

[pjd]

The new program is wonderful, but I suggest a little reading about what is in a Style file and so forth. I recommend the Style Creation Course at Jørgen's site:

http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/docs_specs.htm

There is a lot to learn and assimilate about styles even with the new tool.

Hope this helps -- pj

[rattley]

Hello!

It was only a few months ago I started learning about CASM. Which was only a few months after I even attempted using Yamaha's  onboard StyleCreator. Somewhere I read that Yamaha's CASM functions very secretly and is solely proprietary. They made it sound  like "Yamaha" doesn't want anyone touching this trade secret. Of course that just made me more curious. Since the release of this Midi to Style program everyone now wants to make their own styles. Is there any real Artificial Intellegence going on here or are these CASM rules set in stone?  Are the results of every conversion going to be exactly the same each time??  Are there any decisions being made or is it a purely "go or no-go" situation?  Lately, besides my Genos 1, (Genos 2 coming next week maybe) I've been studying the styles on my Ketron EventX. It's onboard stylemaker lets you change things without having to go as deeply into the program than Genos. It's refreshing to see another companies methods of style construction. You really are never too old to learn........if you want to!!  -charley

[Des O]

Hello!

It was only a few months ago I started learning about CASM. Which was only a few months after I even attempted using Yamaha's  onboard StyleCreator. Somewhere I read that Yamaha's CASM functions very secretly and is solely proprietary. They made it sound  like "Yamaha" doesn't want anyone touching this trade secret. Of course that just made me more curious. Since the release of this Midi to Style program everyone now wants to make their own styles. Is there any real Artificial Intellegence going on here or are these CASM rules set in stone?  Are the results of every conversion going to be exactly the same each time??  Are there any decisions being made or is it a purely "go or no-go" situation?  Lately, besides my Genos 1, (Genos 2 coming next week maybe) I've been studying the styles on my Ketron EventX. It's onboard stylemaker lets you change things without having to go as deeply into the program than Genos. It's refreshing to see another companies methods of style construction. You really are never too old to learn........if you want to!!  -charley

Hi Charley,

The new programme is simple to use and does succeed more than fails determining styles, you can adjust lengths octave etc and doesn't need that much input as long as you have a good midi to start with.
I've had more success with this than any other first time creating, once you get the hang of it you can create a style in minute or remake as much as you want and adjust In depth. I think most who use it love it.  Each creation is never the same, some easy other complex, your choice really. Enjoy working with it and it will give you good pleasurable results.

Des

[pjd]

Hello!

It was only a few months ago I started learning about CASM. Which was only a few months after I even attempted using Yamaha's  onboard StyleCreator. Somewhere I read that Yamaha's CASM functions very secretly and is solely proprietary. They made it sound  like "Yamaha" doesn't want anyone touching this trade secret. Of course that just made me more curious. Since the release of this Midi to Style program everyone now wants to make their own styles. Is there any real Artificial Intellegence going on here or are these CASM rules set in stone?  Are the results of every conversion going to be exactly the same each time??  Are there any decisions being made or is it a purely "go or no-go" situation?  Lately, besides my Genos 1, (Genos 2 coming next week maybe) I've been studying the styles on my Ketron EventX. It's onboard stylemaker lets you change things without having to go as deeply into the program than Genos. It's refreshing to see another companies methods of style construction. You really are never too old to learn........if you want to!!  -charley

Hi Charley --

Yamaha does not publish the internal data representation of most anything. The good folks on the Forum who have contributed software had to work out the details themselves by looking at binary data and performing experiments to determine the purpose and placement of data items. They deserve a round of applause.

One reason why Yamaha is so secretive is competitive advantage. They are well-aware of knock-off competitors. For example, they recently won a copyright infringement suit against Medeli keyboards.

The CASM format is set in stone -- until Yamaha decides to change it some day. CASM data has a hidden version number, so if a change is made, the newer software can detect the older format.

The conversion program does not use AI (as far as we know). I'm skeptical of most claims of AI use. It's being oversold and the term is being misused by suits to sell products.

I would expect the results of conversion to be the same every time.

Yep, competition is beneficial to customers. Keeps engineers on their toes.

Hope this info helps -- pj