Topic: Yamaha discontinues Montage synth workstation...

[keynote]

Yamaha has discontinued production of the Montage according to a Yamaha representative. Prices will no doubt drop accordingly for the remaining Montage stock in stores. Very interesting and as you may well know Yamaha's modus operandi is to announce/release a new top-of-the-line traditional workstation/synth to the market prior to releasing a new top-of-the-line arranger workstation model to the market. For instance, the Montage was released in May (I think) of 2016 and of course, the Genos was released in October/November 2017. If we see the Montage successor at NAMM on April 13-15 in Anaheim, CA., theoretically, the Genos successor release could be bumped up and announced/released at the Yamaha Keyboard Club event in the U.K. in November, where both Martin Harris and Peter Baartmans will be in attendance to showcase?? the new Genos successor. It doesn't hurt to dream and maybe Yamaha will indeed surprise us. Can't wait to see what the new Montage successor will look and sound like. 

All the best, Mike

[Christophermoment]

Yamaha has discontinued production of the Montage according to a Yamaha representative. Prices will no doubt drop accordingly for the remaining Montage stock in stores. Very interesting and as you may well know Yamaha's modus operandi is to announce/release a new top-of-the-line traditional workstation/synth to the market prior to releasing a new top-of-the-line arranger workstation model to the market. For instance, the Montage was released in May (I think) of 2016 and of course, the Genos was released in October/November 2017. If we see the Montage successor at NAMM on April 13-15 in Anaheim, CA., theoretically, the Genos successor release could be bumped up and announced/released at the Yamaha Keyboard Club event in the U.K. in November, where both Martin Harris and Peter Baartmans will be in attendance to showcase?? the new Genos successor. It doesn't hurt to dream and maybe Yamaha will indeed surprise us. Can't wait to see what the new Montage successor will look and sound like. 

All the best, Mike

According to Blake from Yamaha;

Quoted from Blake on Friday, 17 February 2023
Hello everyone,
MONTAGE is still a current product. It has not been discontinued.
Thanks!
Blake

I always take with a pinch of salt when i read 'according to a Yamaha representative' or 'an unnamed source'. People do love to spread rumors though, sooner or later they will be right.



Edit 2023-02-18 by overover: Incorrect "[/quote⁣]" tag corrected.

[pjd]

Regardless of the forum, we need to be on guard against "groupthink". It's OK to speculate. However, time and again, a group of forum users convince themselves that "absolutely, positively" something is going to happen. Could be cancellation of a product, announcement of an old product, etc. Then confirmation bias kicks in and it's off to the races.

Doesn't matter if it's Yamaha. Could be Korg, Roland, whatever.

Keep speculating, but please don't bet your money on tips from a friend. I wouldn't bet on horses or a sports team based on "inside tips", either. 

Peace to all -- pj

[keynote]

Blake said the Montage is still a "current" product. Yes, you can still find a few Montage 6 for sale online. There is even one Montage 8 for sale currently as Sam Ash. So since there are still a few Montage for sale (a very limited few in stock), then it's not considered 'discontinued' because technically it's still available if you look hard enough. But, I suggest to you that because of the sensitive nature of the development of a new Montage successor, Blake or whoever has to walk a very tight rope so as not to dissuade anyone from potentially buying the last few Montage available in store and online. Check for yourself Christopher, and anyone else on the forum, if you scour the internet at any online music instrument retailer you can find or are already know about, you'll notice ALL OF THEM state they are OUT OF STOCK except as I said there's still a very limited quantity of 61 key versions (White & Black) and one 88-key (Black) version that I stumbled upon at Sam Ash Direct. You can still find a few Montage 88-key on Amazon as well. One establishment, i.e. American Musical Supply, might have let the cat out of the bag. 😼 They are OUT OF STOCK too, but they said they are expecting more on, wait for it.... MAY 10th, 2023! NAMM is on April 13-15, and Yamaha is usually quick to get new product(s) to stores after they are announced. 💡 Today is FEBRUARY 18! So almost 3 MONTHS goes by before Yamaha can get any current Montage stock to American Musical Supply to sell to customers? Hard to believe, right? If a product is still being produced by a company with no interruptions or delays in manufacturing, a company can ship these products quickly to any brick and mortar or online store in days or at the most a week or two because the company wants to sell the products they produce, right? NOT THREE MONTHS... unless of course Yamaha has shut down production of the Montage in order to transition to the new product that will replace the Montage. Now is it starting to make sense? Call me a diehard optimist because to me, it demonstrates that Blake Angelos - corrected, originally said Blake Masters by mistake, had to make a public statement most likely on the order of his superiors because Yamaha doesn't want to 'rock the boat' until the Montage+ is officially announced and subsequently released at NAMM, most likely.

All the best, Mike

[Michael Trigoboff]

Sweetwater has one white Montage 6 in stock. All other models on backorder.

[usaraiya]

Mike's arguments are highly logical & compelling about the release schedule of the Montage & the new Genos...but I still have a live one for 2:30 at Wapshot!

Uday
 

[AndrewKeyz]

Speculation alley...

If the Montage is only replaced by a Montage+ it wouldn't surprise me if end of this year we "only" get a Genos+ instead of a complete replacement with a different sound engine:

The differences with the existing Genos could simply by something like this:

• A Genos+WH white option.
• Internal memory 256GB available to user
• All expansions preloaded
• Another 100-200 styles across the different categories
• A dedicated freestyle category
• Bosendorfer piano samples
• HDMI connector
• 256 key polyphony across the entire keyboard
• Seamless sound switching
• Higher resolution much brighter 9 inch OLED display

In my opinion it would still beat a PA5X or, by the looks of it, a Ketron Live.

[keynote]

Speculation alley...

If the Montage is only replaced by a Montage+ it wouldn't surprise me if end of this year we "only" get a Genos+ instead of a complete replacement with a different sound engine:

The differences with the existing Genos could simply by something like this:

• A Genos+WH white option.
• Internal memory 256GB available to user
• All expansions preloaded
• Another 100-200 styles across the different categories
• A dedicated freestyle category
• Bosendorfer piano samples
• HDMI connector
• 256 key polyphony across the entire keyboard
• Seamless sound switching
• Higher resolution much brighter 9 inch OLED display

In my opinion it would still beat a PA5X or, by the looks of it, a Ketron Live.

The Montage is the big brother to the MODX and by contrast the Genos is the big brother to the SX-900. High-priced vs. moderately priced products that fill two niches. The MODX+ is actually a significant upgrade to the MODX original, so I assume the Montage+ (if that's what Yamaha calls it) will be a significant upgrade to the Montage, especially since the Montage is the go-to keyboard for big name artists who desire and even demand the cream of the crop when it comes to sounds, features and functions, such as aftertouch, which is NOT found on the MODX+, etc., etc.

Anyway, the Genos successor, in my opinion, could be a revolution not an evolution in arranger keyboard technology and functionality. Plus, I think Yamaha has devised a plan for selling expansion voices/packs that could prove more advantageous to both Yamaha and customers since they have a new Music Soft website that they would like to capitalize on I would think. In conclusion, this is all speculation. But 5 years on (six years on regarding the Montage) therefore Yamaha has had ample time to produce two new 'blockbusters' and I don't think they will disappoint, but only time will tell. Plus, it's fun trying to make Yamaha's job easier for them, if you know what I mean.  Hopefully, they have listened to our desires and requests for what we would like to see in future arranger and synth/workstation products, including the Genos & Montage successors. If anyone is attending NAMM, please keep us informed!

All the best, Mike

[p$manK32]

The MODX+ is actually a significant upgrade to the MODX original

It's the opposite, the MODX+ was a very minor update. I currently have the MODX+ and previously had the MODX. They are the same exact synth, the + has just a little more memory and more polyphony in the FM engine and some minor cosmetic changes to the outside. Rumor has it Yamaha will add a 3rd synth engine to any Montage upgrade, likely an analog synth engine to go with the AWM and FM engines.

[Joe H]

... Rumor has it Yamaha will add a 3rd synth engine to any Montage upgrade, likely an analog synth engine to go with the AWM and FM engines.

That would make an awesome synth.  Analog is better than FM. Sounds like Yamaha is recycling old technology again, which is something they are very good at.

Joe H

[mixermixer]

Would be interesting if Yamaha incorporated some tech from the EX5/EX7 keyboard, I listened to a YT demo from MusicTrackJP and was really surprised by some of the sounds/patches. I really liked the first one at the beginning.

[Benis67]

...... Rumor has it Yamaha will add a 3rd synth engine to any Montage upgrade, likely an analog synth engine to go with the AWM and FM engines.

It is certain that Yamaha has patented the AN-X synthesis engine https://uspto.report/TM/97450018 . The Status: Notice of Allowance (NOA) also arrived on 31 -1-2023.
To date there is not a single romor that associates the AN-X with the Montage or MODX: it could be the engine of a new synth.
Do you have different info?

[Joe H]

It is certain that Yamaha has patented the AN-X synthesis engine https://uspto.report/TM/97450018 . The Status: Notice of Allowance (NOA) also arrived on 31 -1-2023.
To date there is not a single rumor that associates the AN-X with the Montage or MODX: it could be the engine of a new synth.
Do you have different info?

The AN synth engine was release as a "plug-in" card.  Two cards were used in the ANx keyboard, some of the Motif keyboards had up to 3 slots  for cards as well as the AN200 beat box, the MU100, MU100R, MU128, MU1000 and MU2000 sound modules.  The PSR 9000 Pro even had an expansion slot for one of these cards.

Joe H

[AndrewKeyz]

The AN synth engine was release as a "plug-in" card.  Two cards were used in the ANx keyboard, some of the Motif keyboards had up to 3 slots  for cards as well as the AN200 beat box, the MU100, MU100R, MU128, MU1000 and MU2000 sound modules.  The PSR 9000 Pro even had an expansion slot for one of these cards.

Joe H

I have an MU100R. Apparently they all suffered from bad soldering that causes sound glitches with about 30-40% of all sounds.

I believe this can be fixed but I have never tried.

[Joe H]

I have an MU100R. Apparently they all suffered from bad soldering that causes sound glitches with about 30-40% of all sounds.

I believe this can be fixed but I have never tried.

I had this problem too.  It was the sound chip containing the XG Preset waveforms.  It was cheaper to buy a like-new module on eBay than to send it to Yamaha to fix.

Joe H

[p$manK32]

To date there is not a single romor that associates the AN-X with the Montage or MODX: it could be the engine of a new synth.
Do you have different info?

The AN-X in the Montage was the rumor (or speculation) I was referring to. This could certainly be wrong and I don’t have any other info. When the MODX+ was released back in Sept. there was a lot of discussion about the next Montage on the Yamaha Musicians forum. Many thought the AN-X would be a separate additional chip going inside the new Montage. Some even wondered if the MODX+ had this chip inside in an inactive state, ready to be activated by a software update after the new Montage came out, but that sounds a bit far fetched. Some were asking me if I would be willing to open up my MODX+ to see, lol.

[pjd]

It is certain that Yamaha has patented the AN-X synthesis engine

Folks, please, let's be careful about terminology. Yamaha applied for and received the trademark name "AN-X". This is not the same as patenting a synthesis engine.

I think what bothers me, sometimes, are declarative sentences that state rumor as fact, or in this case, don't state facts correctly. Unfortunately, there are other people who accept everything that they see on the Web as true.

If someone read the sentence, "Yamaha has discontinued production of the Montage according to a Yamaha representative", they might think it came as an official announcement, not "heard from the friend of a friend."

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade.

Peace -- pj

[Benis67]

Folks, please, let's be careful about terminology. Yamaha applied for and received the trademark name "AN-X". This is not the same as patenting a synthesis engine.

I think what bothers me, sometimes, are declarative sentences that state rumor as fact, or in this case, don't state facts correctly. Unfortunately, there are other people who accept everything that they see on the Web as true.

If someone read the sentence, "Yamaha has discontinued production of the Montage according to a Yamaha representative", they might think it came as an official announcement, not "heard from the friend of a friend."

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade.

Peace -- pj

I expressed myself badly: I implied the word "name".
I meant "Yamaha has patented the AN-X synthesis engine name"
I am well aware that a completely different procedure is required to patent a synthesis engine: just think, for example, of the Modartt patent regarding the physical model which is the basis of Pianoteq. There they also had to put the differential equations that define some parts of the model. (Patent No. US 7,915,515 B2) https://patents.google.com/patent/US7915515B2/en

[pjd]

I expressed myself badly: I implied the word "name".
I meant "Yamaha has patented the AN-X synthesis engine name"

Hi --

Sorry, I don't mean to cause offense. However, in the United States anyway, names are not patented. Names are registered as trademarks. Even from the trademark filing, we don't know if "AN-X" refers to the synthesis engine itself.

"AN-X" is just a name as far as the trademark is concerned. Yamaha also applied for the trademarks "CK61" and "CK88". We don't know what they are either.

I'll granted that you know what is expected in a patent application and description. 

No differential equations have been harmed -- pj   

[Benis67]

Hi --

Sorry, I don't mean to cause offense. However, in the United States anyway, names are not patented. Names are registered as trademarks. Even from the trademark filing, we don't know if "AN-X" refers to the synthesis engine itself.

"AN-X" is just a name as far as the trademark is concerned. Yamaha also applied for the trademarks "CK61" and "CK88". We don't know what they are either.

I'll granted that you know what is expected in a patent application and description. 

No differential equations have been harmed -- pj   

There are no certainties, but I believe that AN-X is a synthesis engine as it has been registered exactly as FM-X without a particular logo and graphics.
In both it is indicated:
Mark Drawing Type 4 - STANDARD CHARACTER MARK

On the contrary MODX, CP, CK88, CK61 are registered with well-defined logos: in fact is indicated
Mark Drawing Type 5  - AN ILLUSTRATION DRAWING WITH WORD(S) /LETTER(S)/ NUMBER(S) IN STYLIZED FORM

https://uspto.report/company/Yamaha-Corp/page/1
https://uspto.report/company/Yamaha-Corp/page/2

Obviously we are only talking about hypotheses: for Montage and the possible firmware update, we will probably have the definitive answer regarding the potential of the SWP70 tone generator, and the hypothetical ability to generate VA synthesis

[Amwilburn]

Fun to speculate though. CK88 CK61 Compact Keys? Control(ler) Keys? I wonder if they're going after Casio's ultra slim market, or maybe even the foldable keyboards?

[mixermixer]

another speculation, GrandPianoCraft is piano room 2.0? or a whole another voice set/engine?

[ton37]

I also expect that Yamaha will  integrate Cubase software elements in their NEW hardware... maybe that was the long term reason to buy Steinberg's Cubase. Which makes a better connection with that DAW.

[nonchai]

I also expect that Yamaha will  integrate Cubase software elements in their NEW hardware... maybe that was the long term reason to buy Steinberg's Cubase. Which makes a better connection with that DAW.

Well a variant or cut down version of Cubasis would make most sense as its already written for touch display control and available for Android - so I'd imagine provided Yamaha licensed some form of Android - might be feasible - and depending on which graphical API Cubasis was coded to - maybe just some variant of Linux might do.... dunno

I'd really like to see Cubasis and then Cubase do what so many others are doing - and introduce a clip-launch pattern-scene (ALA Ableton, Logic,Garageband, Digital Performer and Bitwig etc ) mode too -

The way Ableton allows one to start off ideas in SESSION mode and then eventually move it all smoothly over to its Arrange page works so well.

And this goes fro a future GENOS 2 as well as any future top end workstation.

Yamaha calls the current  GENOS a "workstation" which is laughable. Its not.

[Amwilburn]

When the OP was posted, Montage didn't show as discontinued in our system, so I didn't comment because I didn't know one way or the other.

Well I just checked today, and our own system lists it as end of life, and it also says discontinued on our competitor's website. So yeah, it is discontinued (officially) after all.
Mark

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Mark :

Will the Montage's successor be launched ( first ) before we can expect a new Genos ... am I right ?

Best regards, JH

[Amwilburn]

I don't know. I can point out Montage launched mid 2015 here, Genos end of 2017, so yes, I *think* a Montage successor would be introduced first.
But frankly, I think it's just as possible they may just stick with the MODX+, as they are to launch a Montage+.

Mark

[keynote]

Yamaha usually releases the synth/workstation line first, so I fully expect to see a Montage successor before we see the Genos successor. I'm hoping we'll see the Montage successor at NAMM 2023 which is on April 13-15 at the Anaheim Convention Center in Anaheim, Calif...yada, yada, yada. Not sure what Yammie will call the Montage successor, but something tells me they might go with Montage+ although since it will be a TOTL synth/workstation keyboard, therefore a unique name (to distinguish it from the mid-level MODX+) might be better suited, especially if it's a more substantial upgrade in comparison to the MODX+. I have a hunch we'll also see the Genos successor at the UK Yamaha Keyboard Club event in November. Why else would both Martin Harris and Peter Baartmans be in attendance?💡 Remember also, NAMM 2024 will resume again in January 2024 where the Genos 2 can be showcased again to a much wider audience, generating even greater interest, if in fact Yamaha hits a home run (grand slam??) with its new Flagship arranger.

All the best, Mike USA 

[mixermixer]

As of this post date & time, Yamaha USA has not placed the Discontinued badge on the Montage product page yet.

What will be weird is that Yamaha also has not discontinued the MOXF nor the MX series. I would think Yamaha would kill one or the other since they're kinda overlapping in terms of features, the MOXF having trickle MOTIF functions while the MX is purely a synth.

[pjd]

Hi --

Believe it or not, it's still possible to buy a new MOXF8 from (a few) on-line retailers. The big on-line retailers usually buy in batches just to maintain "In stock" status. Sometimes the inventory doesn't sell through when a model is out of production (discontinued). MOXF is based on the older generation of tone generator IC and is completely out of production (EOL).

The MX mk2 is still a current product. Yamaha refreshed the internals and released the mk2 in July 2016. It fills the entry-level, price sensitive buyer slot in the synthesizer line. The MX mk2 sound set is still based on the Motif XS.

Yamaha doesn't make a generational change very often. Montage and MODX+ will evolve incrementally. This is the "Yamaha Way" and I don't expect them to change practice.

Genos was a generational change. Doubt if there will be another revolution soon. 

All the best -- pj

[Amwilburn]

Hi --

Believe it or not, it's still possible to buy a new MOXF8 from (a few) on-line retailers. The big on-line retailers usually buy in batches just to maintain "In stock" status. Sometimes the inventory doesn't sell through when a model is out of production (discontinued). MOXF is based on the older generation of tone generator IC and is completely out of production (EOL).

The MX mk2 is still a current product. Yamaha refreshed the internals and released the mk2 in July 2016. It fills the entry-level, price sensitive buyer slot in the synthesizer line. The MX mk2 sound set is still based on the Motif XS.

Yamaha doesn't make a generational change very often. Montage and MODX+ will evolve incrementally. This is the "Yamaha Way" and I don't expect them to change practice.

Genos was a generational change. Doubt if there will be another revolution soon. 

All the best -- pj

Yup, we actually had new, sealed MOXF8's & 6's right up until this past Christmas; we just sold our last display model last month.

The last generational change was going from PSR9000 to Tyros 1; 20 years ago! Yes, Genos was a generational change, and I agree, the next few iterations will likely be incremental.

We still have Montage 6's, but as a dealer we can't get Montage 8's or 7's anymore :1

[soundphase]

Yes, Genos was a generational change, and I agree, the next few iterations will likely be incremental.

New hardware generation,... ok.... but Genos2 could propose us some sounds from a new "sound format" generation that better take benefit from the new processors and co-processors.

[keynote]

New hardware generation,... ok.... but Genos2 could propose us some sounds from a new "sound format" generation that better take benefit from the new processors and co-processors.

CPU's and coprocessors have advanced leaps and bounds compared to when the Genos was released in 2017. I hope Yamaha gives us the latest advancements in keyboard processors and coprocessors, etc., on the Geno2 (or whatever Yammie decides to call it). So, in theory, we could see a new Vocal Harmony addition e.g. VH3, a new sound articulation addition e.g. S.Art3, new Hammond B3/Vox/Farfisa/Pipe Organ emulations that could be the bees knees if Yammie ups its game regarding Tone Wheel and various other Organ types like we now find on the new Clavia Nord Stage 4, as an example. Faster data access via a superfast NVMe SSD. USB 3.2 2nd Generation interface (USB-C) [Sampling Frequency = 44.1kHz - 192kHz] Input: 32 channels (16 stereo channels), Output: 64 channels (32 stereo channels) would be a whopping improvement to the current specs on the Montage used as an audio interface. 256 notes (or more) of polyphony across the entire range of the keyboard. Increased Insert/layering effects, Import and playback of 24/32bit audio, HDMI Video interface/output, a High Definition LCD/OLED Display Screen(s), and the list goes on. It will be interesting to see what unfolds as it pertains to the Montage successor and Genos successor. In due time, I reckon. 

All the best, Mike USA   

[soundphase]

CPU's and coprocessors have advanced leaps and bounds compared to when the Genos was released in 2017. I hope Yamaha gives us the latest advancements in keyboard processors and coprocessors, etc., on the Geno2 (or whatever Yammie decides to call it). So, in theory, we could see a new Vocal Harmony addition e.g. VH3, a new sound articulation addition e.g. S.Art3, new Hammond B3/Vox/Farfisa/Pipe Organ emulations that could be the bees knees if Yammie ups its game regarding Tone Wheel and various other Organ types like we now find on the new Clavia Nord Stage 4, as an example. Faster data access via a superfast NVMe SSD. USB 3.2 2nd Generation interface (USB-C) [Sampling Frequency = 44.1kHz - 192kHz] Input: 32 channels (16 stereo channels), Output: 64 channels (32 stereo channels) would be a whopping improvement to the current specs on the Montage used as an audio interface. 256 notes (or more) of polyphony across the entire range of the keyboard. Increased Insert/layering effects, Import and playback of 24/32bit audio, HDMI Video interface/output, a High Definition LCD/OLED Display Screen(s), and the list goes on. It will be interesting to see what unfolds as it pertains to the Montage successor and Genos successor. In due time, I reckon. 

All the best, Mike USA   

I'm sure Genos 2 hardware specifications were already fixed in 2018~2019 (so based on technologies that were just emerging at the time), and Genos hardware specification in 2013~2014. Being able to change assembly lines and industrially produce such specific motherboards and components requires a lot of preparation time (more than standard computers CPUs/GPUs and motherboards).

[keynote]

I'm sure Genos 2 hardware specifications were already fixed in 2018~2019 (so based on technologies that were just emerging at the time), and Genos hardware specification in 2013~2014. Being able to change assembly lines and industrially produce such specific motherboards and components requires a lot of preparation time (more than standard computers CPUs/GPUs and motherboards).

Agreed. Yamaha needed to secure all hardware parts at the time of design and layout of the Genos2. I figure the final design and layout occurred in 2020/2021 and if I'm correct then Yamaha should be able to provide a significant upgrade to the original Genos when they release the Genos2, hopefully this year.

All the best, Mike USA