"Clacky" keys on SX900/700: Please send me your Serial numbers!

[blackpool]

Just to feedback on this issue Enildo .....as noted on my earlier post, it was not a real issue to me and the 900 seemed ok despite the slightly noisy sharps and flats. Although I have to add I am unable to comment if this would have got worse with wear.

I recently traded down to a new 700 ( which is really in essence the very same board ) and have to say it's just fine, the sharps and flats seem to operate very well and just as good as the white notes.

Keith

[Enildo]

I will wait for Yamaha to contact me to solve my problem, in the next few days, if they do not contact me,
I will send another email and also make a video showing this problem on youtube, to alert other possible buyers of the SX900.
I will also make a complaint on the website "Reclame aqui", which is a Brazilian website for complaints about bad products and services, much visited in Brazil.
And if all this is not enough to solve my problem, I will file a case in the justice of my city.

Enildo

[computec1349]

I am sorry to disappoint the forum, but these keyboards have always had these problems, it is considered a wear and tear problem, so Yamaha does not give it importance, what you have to do is replace the grease that comes with a better quality and ready.


Regards.

[Enildo]

I am sorry to disappoint the forum, but these keyboards have always had these problems, it is considered a wear and tear problem, so Yamaha does not give it importance, what you have to do is replace the grease that comes with a better quality and ready.


Regards.

I spent almost four years with the s970 and it didn't. With the SX900 it was only 3 months and the keys are already noisy. If a good grease is needed, let the yamaha take responsibility for the maintenance in your authorized workshops, as the instrument is still under warranty and does not leave the responsibility of the owner.

Enildo

[Enildo]

Even if I want to use a good quality grease, I can't, because when I open the keyboard, I lose the warranty. This is what is wrong, it is not my responsibility but the company's. If, when I tried the keyboard, the keys were already with that noise, I would be buying already knowing that it would be like this, the problem is that when buying, the keys were perfect and only afterwards they show that they are of poor quality.

[rikkisbears]

Hi,
do all the sx keyboards eventually develop this problem, or only some? Ie is it thru wear and tear, or develops over a period of time.
I haven't noticed it on mine, because I rarely use the sx keys , I use my p121 piano as a controller.

[martinmoss10]

I have my SX900 soon after it came out and all the keys are fine. and i am on it most days. Martin UK.

[overover]

Hi,
do all the sx keyboards eventually develop this problem, or only some? Ie is it thru wear and tear, or develops over a period of time.
I haven't noticed it on mine, because I rarely use the sx keys , I use my p121 piano as a controller.

Hi Rikki,

with the help of Frank Steinbrecher (frankmusik) and Yamaha Music Europe, based on the serial numbers, we checked the production date of many SX keyboards (worldwide).

Basically only very few SX keyboards are affected by this problem ("clacky black keys"), and we found that all SX models that have been reported to us so far come from completely different production batches / production dates.

We have already discussed the problem with Yamaha Europe. At the moment it looks like the reason for the problem is the key Grease used  (that is applied between the moving parts of the keys). In some cases, this Grease was apparently applied too sparingly.

We recommend that affected users directly contact the Yamaha representative in their country, e.g. via the support form on the local Yamaha website. The ideal thing would be to record a short video (with sound), in which you can see and hear the "clattering" of the keys, and to send this video to Yamaha Support via email.

Normally, an affected keyboard should be repairable by Yamaha within a short time. A complete replacement of the keyboard will only be necessary in very rare cases.


Best regards,
Chris

[rikkisbears]

Thank you Chris,
I gather the clacking must be really bad  for owners to notice, don't think mine has it, I'm actually in Australia.
Thank you for your explanation.

[EileenL]

It only happens on the black keys as some have quite a lot of side to side movement and will make a little more noise than the white keys. If it dose not worry you then you should not worry about it.
  Probably people who play very softly or use head phones will notice if they have it.

[Enildo]

Hi Rikki,

with the help of Frank Steinbrecher (frankmusik) and Yamaha Music Europe, based on the serial numbers, we checked the production date of many SX keyboards (worldwide).

Basically only very few SX keyboards are affected by this problem ("clacky black keys"), and we found that all SX models that have been reported to us so far come from completely different production batches / production dates.

We have already discussed the problem with Yamaha Europe. At the moment it looks like the reason for the problem is the key Grease used  (that is applied between the moving parts of the keys). In some cases, this Grease was apparently applied too sparingly.

We recommend that affected users directly contact the Yamaha representative in their country, e.g. via the support form on the local Yamaha website. The ideal thing would be to record a short video (with sound), in which you can see and hear the "clattering" of the keys, and to send this video to Yamaha Support via email.

Normally, an affected keyboard should be repairable by Yamaha within a short time. A complete replacement of the keyboard will only be necessary in very rare cases.


Best regards,
Chris

Hello everybody!
I made a call to yamaha Brazil on the 21st and yesterday they sent me this answer:

Dear Mr. Henyldo,
Yamaha Musical thanks you for contacting us.
Thanks for forwarding the video for a more accurate analysis by our technicians.
After detailed analysis, the technicians identified that this is a characteristic of this key system and there is no non-conformity in their product.
If you have any questions we are available.

I am very sad with Yamaha, because to say that this is normal, is to want to push down a defect in your last PSR product.
If this noise was perceived right away when buying or testing the instrument when new, fine, it would be up to the customer to decide whether to buy it or not, but the problem is only noticed after use for a few months and see that I didn't even have time to play at my events because of the pandemic. I wonder when I use the keyboard for real, playing 2, 3 4 hours straight. The teco-teco (noise) will be great! Then the keys will loosen for good.

Enildo 


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[Joe H]

My opinion is that they don't want another "PSR900 Recall"... remember that screen failure? They must have replaced thousands of screens under warranty.  They don't want to go through that scenario again.  It could cost them a bundle of money.  Someone at Yamaha messed up with the new key bed. Either it's poorly designed or the wrong kind of grease.  In any case, it's unacceptable for a company that has been making keyboards for 100 years or more. It's like their launching of the Genos and now the free download website. Both have been a mess!

Maybe its a case of the next generation engineers and marketing folks.  The quality of so much of the physical/hardware merchandise is declining... and maybe; so are the people who produce it and market it.  As a person who has been business for 38 years, the quality of workmanship and service has declined everywhere I look.

Joe H

[Enildo]

I have a colleague with the same problem with the SX900, he lives about 25km from my city, I think many people will appear. He will also take the keyboard to the authorized service. I will send another email to yamaha responding to this negligence, and if they insist on not repairing my SX that has only 5 months of use, only at home for short trials, I will judicialize the issue. I think the company is silly, because they spent money on lawyers and in the end I am sure that I will win the cause + moral damages for not having done their role of respecting the guarantee of their products.

Enildo

[Joe H]

From the Owner's Manual, here's what Yamaha says about their quality and what the warranty on the sx900 covers:

Thank you for selecting a Yamaha product. Yamaha products are designed and manufactured to provide a high level of defect-free
performance. Yamaha Corporation of America ("Yamaha") is proud of the experience and craftsmanship that goes into each and
every Yamaha product. Yamaha sells its products through a network of reputable, specially authorized dealers and is pleased to offer
you, the Original Owner, the following Limited Warranty, which applies only to products that have been (1) directly purchased from
Yamaha's authorized dealers in the fifty states of the USA and District of Columbia (the "Warranted Area") and (2) used exclusively in
the Warranted Area. Yamaha suggests that you read the Limited Warranty thoroughly, and invites you to contact your authorized
Yamaha dealer or Yamaha Customer Service if you have any questions.

Coverage:
Yamaha will, at its option, repair or replace the product covered by this warranty if it becomes defective, malfunctions or
otherwise fails to conform with this warranty under normal use and service during the term of this warranty, without charge for labor
or materials. Repairs may be performed using new or refurbished parts that meet or exceed Yamaha specifications for new parts. If
Yamaha elects to replace the product, the replacement may be a reconditioned unit. You will be responsible for any installation or
removal charges and for any initial shipping charges if the product(s) must be shipped for warranty service. However, Yamaha will
pay the return shipping charges to any destination within the USA if the repairs are covered by the warranty. This warranty does not
cover (a) damage, deterioration or malfunction resulting from accident, negligence, misuse, abuse, improper installation or operation
or failure to follow instructions according to the Owner's Manual for this product; any shipment of the product (claims must be
presented to the carrier); repair or attempted repair by anyone other than Yamaha or an authorized Yamaha Service Center; (b) any
unit which has been altered or on which the serial number has been defaced, modified or removed; (c) normal wear and any periodic
maintenance; (d) deterioration due to perspiration, corrosive atmosphere or other external causes such as extremes in temperature
or humidity; (e) damages attributable to power line surge or related electrical abnormalities, lightning damage or acts of God; or (f)
RFI/EMI (Interference/noise) caused by improper grounding or the improper use of either certified or uncertified equipment, if
applicable. Any evidence of alteration, erasing or forgery of proof-of-purchase documents will cause this warranty to be void. This
warranty covers only the Original Owner and is not transferable.

Joe H

[EileenL]

I wonder how many people have read this. If you have any problems first port of call is The dealer you purchased from or get in touch with your service department technical advise directly.

[computec1349]

Hello everybody!
I made a call to yamaha Brazil on the 21st and yesterday they sent me this answer:

Dear Mr. Henyldo,
Yamaha Musical thanks you for contacting us.
Thanks for forwarding the video for a more accurate analysis by our technicians.
After detailed analysis, the technicians identified that this is a characteristic of this key system and there is no non-conformity in their product.
If you have any questions we are available.

I am very sad with Yamaha, because to say that this is normal, is to want to push down a defect in your last PSR product.
If this noise was perceived right away when buying or testing the instrument when new, fine, it would be up to the customer to decide whether to buy it or not, but the problem is only noticed after use for a few months and see that I didn't even have time to play at my events because of the pandemic. I wonder when I use the keyboard for real, playing 2, 3 4 hours straight. The teco-teco (noise) will be great! Then the keys will loosen for good.

Enildo 

I had told them, but they ignored me. Yamaha that's right ...

[mikf]

It is nonsense for Yamaha to just claim it is 'normal'. It's possible that it occasionally happened with Yamaha keyboards in the past, or that some very small - hardly noticeable - amount of movement is 'normal'. But what people are saying here cannot be 'normal' or we would have seen many posts on this long before now. And it just so happens all the the complaints are about the same model  - sorry Yamaha but engineers don't believe in that kind of coincidence. I never noticed it on any of my Yamaha keyboards including my old psr3k, and believe me I would have noticed if it happened. It has to be a manufacturing or design difference. If they make the keyboard with too much free play in the keys, maybe they can cover that up with new grease - for a while. But as people are seeing here, ultimately it will show up.
Mike

[panos]

Is there any video or at least anυ audio example to hear how much noise the black keys are producing compared to the white keys?

Computec's explanation looks pretty logical.
When there is a friction, there will be a noise if there is a problem with the grease.
There must not be any annoying noise produced at all by the keys of a keyboard at the level of the psr SX900.

[mikf]

Friction is unlikely to produce the kind of noise and movement people describe. That most likely comes from 'play' in the key fixing point.

[samhodgsonpsr]

After owning my PSR SX900 for ten days (an expensive 18th birthday present that I bought for myself), unfortunately it has developed this issue, it has appeared on the keys I use most. I have filmed a video for my dealer that shows the problem - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv2NoQyn7VI . Before this issue surfaced, I viewed this thread so I believe I was more paranoid than I would have been otherwise, this allowed me to notice the issue quickly. I am returning my SX900 to my dealer for inspection and hopefully a repair. I am starting to think that this issue is more widespread than previously thought, my dealer mentioned sending a replacement to me and I believe there is a real chance that the same fault would develop so I really would prefer a repair (a reapplication of the correct amount of grease). The keys on my unit sounded fine for the first few days, but gradually got louder. Having previously owned a PSR S750 for 4 years, I admit the keys weren't silent, there was some noise because it had seen a fair amount of use but it was nothing like the noise on the SX900.

In terms of the keybed itself, I am aware that the Electone STAGEA ELB 02, (an electric organ produced by Yamaha that is only for sale in certain regions) has an FSB keybed, whether this is the same one used in the PSR SX700 and 900 I am not sure, but it is possible that the keybed design has been in this ELB 02 (released in 2016) which would make this issue even more puzzling (if Yamaha already has experience with this keybed). Here is the link to the product specifications of that instrument - https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/electone/elb-02/specs.html#product-tabs .

Anyway, whether I receive a repair or replacement unit I will keep this thread updated if there are any more developments. It really is disappointing that these expensive keyboards are developing faults after such a small amount of use.

[computec1349]

After seeing that Yamaha will not do anything like the previous keyboards, I made the repair myself.

As I said at the beginning of this thread, it is a problem that has been around for more than 25 years.

The solution is to replace with a grease of higher density and quality.

And fixed my keyboard like new and for at least about 15 years.


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[computec1349]

This is the image with the new grease! If you need help contact me.

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[Aquilauno]

hi computer1349
very interesting ... what kind of fat did you apply? silicone grease? and where should it be applied?  (although I think I understand that it should be put on the gray little rubbers, but I wanted a confirmation)
Pietro

[mikf]

No one should have to take a relatively new keyboard apart and change the grease. The SX range are not cheap toys, it should not be happening, and taking it apart might affect the warranty. And many purchasers of these keyboards are in their  'twilight' years. They bought these keyboards  to  play music, not become technicians.
mike

[Enildo]

After owning my PSR SX900 for ten days (an expensive 18th birthday present that I bought for myself), unfortunately it has developed this issue, it has appeared on the keys I use most. I have filmed a video for my dealer that shows the problem - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv2NoQyn7VI . Before this issue surfaced, I viewed this thread so I believe I was more paranoid than I would have been otherwise, this allowed me to notice the issue quickly. I am returning my SX900 to my dealer for inspection and hopefully a repair. I am starting to think that this issue is more widespread than previously thought, my dealer mentioned sending a replacement to me and I believe there is a real chance that the same fault would develop so I really would prefer a repair (a reapplication of the correct amount of grease). The keys on my unit sounded fine for the first few days, but gradually got louder. Having previously owned a PSR S750 for 4 years, I admit the keys weren't silent, there was some noise because it had seen a fair amount of use but it was nothing like the noise on the SX900.

In terms of the keybed itself, I am aware that the Electone STAGEA ELB 02, (an electric organ produced by Yamaha that is only for sale in certain regions) has an FSB keybed, whether this is the same one used in the PSR SX700 and 900 I am not sure, but it is possible that the keybed design has been in this ELB 02 (released in 2016) which would make this issue even more puzzling (if Yamaha already has experience with this keybed). Here is the link to the product specifications of that instrument - https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/electone/elb-02/specs.html#product-tabs .

Anyway, whether I receive a repair or replacement unit I will keep this thread updated if there are any more developments. It really is disappointing that these expensive keyboards are developing faults after such a small amount of use.

Here in Brazil I'm fighting with yamaha to repair my keyboard under warranty. Fortunately we have the consumer protection agencies that I will appeal to. I will want an indemnity for moral damages due to the denial of the repair, which is the obligation of the yamaha, within the warranty period.
I am not going to open my keyboard to do the repair myself, because it will void the warranty if it gives another defect.

Enildo

[computec1349]

hi computer1349
very interesting ... what kind of fat did you apply? silicone grease? and where should it be applied?  (although I think I understand that it should be put on the gray little rubbers, but I wanted a confirmation)
Pietro

Hi Perro!

I used synthetic grease for electronic components, you can find it in electronics stores, it is white and it is placed in the new black ones at the end of each key.

[panos]

If I hit the black keys on my s750 the way that Sam did a little different kind of sound is produced which is also noticeable.
But all black keys produce almost the same sound,a kind of more metallic sound than on Sam's video.

White keys produce just a little normal sound (if you hit a plastic with your fingers I guess is normal to hear just a little sound).

The F# on Sam's keyboard sounds louder than Eb and all the the other black keys.
Although I would rather test the key without my finger leaving the key at all and not by hitting it.
In order to hear the sound by key itself when moving up and down and not the sound produced between my finger hitting the key.

Anyway, let's hope there will be a solution to this as long as people saying there wasn't such noticeable sound when the keyboard was bought..

Computec knows a lot about keyboards so he could fix this by himself.
The rest keyboard players should not open a new keyboard in any case.


Sam do you like "uncle" Rodger's songs? I think they are brilliant 

[Rich]

Hi Sam,

Hope you don't mind, but I added a link to your video on my 'Pinned' comment here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPr4iw8pzXs

All good wishes for a successful outcome!

[samhodgsonpsr]

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your replies.

I have just re-boxed my SX900 and it is being sent back to my dealer tomorrow. First of all computec1349 I agree with you completely, noise has always been an issue on PSR S series keyboards, but at least in my experience an issue hasn't appeared this quickly. I really commend you for applying grease yourself and am a big advocate for the DIY method(I own a computer recycling and resale business), it is fascinating to me to see why this problem is occurring in the first place, it seems like a trivial manufacturing mistake to me! Maybe with your help we can devise a repair guide for other users facing this issue although I agree with Mike that nobody should be expected to dissemble such a new keyboard to rectify the issue.

Enildo, I am sorry to hear that you are having problems trying to get your instrument repaired. Having seen your previous post on the thread, I can't believe that the engineers say that there is no non-conformity in their product, I believe Yamaha should honour the warranty. As an advocate for the right to repair movement, I really don't think it would be fair for a warranty to be classed as void for reapplying grease to the keys but I understand that most people wouldn't feel comfortable opening up such an expensive and complex instrument (although it isn't that difficult to do). It would be awful if something was damaged in the process.

Panos, I owned a PSR S750 before this instrument and remember that the keys had a noise when they were played, the noise was nowhere near as loud as the SX900, and it was much more consistent between each key. The F# was definitely louder than the other black keys on the SX900. After filming the video I noticed that most of the keys had a 'clack' but most of them were mild (but most likely would have worsened over time). The white keys on the SX900 were perfect for me. In terms of how I played the keyboard to get the noise to surface I admit I was playing the keys a little harder than usual (but nothing ridiculous) playing the black notes with a normal soft touch would reduce the noise but it was definitely still present. I first noticed the issue when practising a chromatic scale. My Yamaha Electone EL60's keys still sound fine, all consistent, even if the keys were played in that manner. I haven't heard of Uncle Rodger before.

Rich, I am more than happy for that link to remain pinned in your comment. I really appreciate you uploading that video in the first place! It confirmed that my suspicions that my keyboard had the same issue.

Hopefully within the next week I will have another SX900, and hopefully it does not develop the same issue. However I must admit I am trying to remain pessimistic about it.

Just as a matter of interest, have any SX700 owners faced this issue? So far it seems that it has predominantly affected the SX900.

[panos]

Hi Sam,
I meant this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm6cPXSjdRs

You had both the SX900 and the s750 so Ι guess you can tell in which point a noise of the keybed can be bearable and in which point it can be not.
So can Enildo and the others who owned a psr S model and now facing this problem with some SX models.