Author Topic: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting  (Read 1036 times)

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Offline gerard

Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« on: June 02, 2019, 06:13:52 PM »
Yesterday I played outside at a function at my American Legion Post.
I was setup in front of the building which is white.
They put up a 10 x 10 white canopy for me in case it rained.
After I setup everything and turned on the Genos I was almost terrified.
I looked at the touch screen and could not see anything!!
All the buttons showed up ok.
But the touch screen only reflected all the light that was around me.
I took a cardboard box, cut it down, made an opening, and put it on the Genos.
Then I had to bend down so my eyes were about 6 inches from the screen and I could just make out what was on there.
I use playlists extensively, either for sets of songs or by genre. Oldies, Pop, Country etc.
Everything was extremely hard to see.
So, it took a lot longer between each song to go to the next one I wanted to do.
I will be playing at a fair next month and will have the same problem of having it dark enough to see the touch screen.
A solution, which may seem ridiculous to some of you might work.
One Halloween, I went at Dracula complete with cape.
If I wore the cape, and after each song, pulled the cape over my head to cover the Genos, then I would be able to see everything easily.
I know you are going to laugh but, if you have a better solution I am all ears! LOL

Regards,
Gerard

Offline soryt

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2019, 10:34:55 PM »
They should use in these days a ultra bright Oled screen with a high resolution , like they use on "High end" drones monitors like the Dji Crystal sky monitors.

:)
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2019, 10:53:45 PM »
Interesting!!

The Grim Reaper playing a Genos
It could catch on!! 8) :) ;D
 

Offline gerard

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2019, 12:37:41 AM »
I could change my name to "Count Genos".

But seriously, there is no easy fix to playing the Genos outside unless you were in a darkened area.
If the canopy I was under was maybe dark green in color, that may have made a difference.

Gerard
 

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2019, 12:40:33 AM »
How often do we buy products in this world made by people who never use them? More and more I'm seeing product designs from people who have no clear cut relationship with the real world. I can remember playing an outdoor wedding years ago using my PSR2000. The screen had a slight tilt and you could see all of it from any angle under any lighting condition.

"What happened," you ask? We started relying on computers to design things 100 percent. Problem: computers have not yet been programmed to take into account human factors. The designers must do that and when they know nothing about human factors, we end having to employ contortionist techniques to see a screen that should be visible in all conditions.

To all designers - get into the real world before it runs you over!!!!!!!
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2019, 01:40:21 PM »
My pet hate is product packaging, whether it's the film wrapping on a pack or ham or the solid plastic bubble, which rips to razor sharp edges, round small hardware items. I doubt the designers every try to actually open anything they've produced.
Tyros5
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2019, 03:20:17 PM »
The tiltable screen must come back on Genos 2!!!
Toril S

Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2019, 12:08:57 AM »
I have nothing much to add here, other than that I have to stand up and peer at the screen
every time I want to tweak something or search for a registration outdoors.

And that is during early evening, when strong direct sunlight has faded away.

I used to be able to tweak EQ, effects, channel volume etc on the fly while playing live
with my T3, then saving those settings. Resulting in optimal settings for me.

All because of the tilt screen, which was a huge help for getting a rich fat
sound that was neither too muddy, nor too bright.

I once tried to adjust the compressor settings while playing in a well lit hall and it almost
blew my head off, and made the audience jump with fright as the volume shot up to max.

Because a slight touch of the screen can make the volume jump one way or another.

I never tried that again, but I had a slightly different but similar experience when I tried to
tweak the low frequency on the drums.

It would be even more dangerous to attempt any tweaking on an illegible screen.

I will now be playing outdoors 3 times a week, till September 15th. The rest of the
weekly gigs will thankfully be indoors.

I will be playing blind, so to speak, when I'm outdoors, or get up and peer at the screen
every time I need to see something.

I know others have suggested capes and pieces of cardboard, but It would be unthinkable
for me, or anyone else for that matter, to go to work all dressed up in a nice suit
and expensive instruments and then attach pieces of cardboard to those instruments,
especially in a 5 star hotel.

Best Regards.
Abby.


« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 01:51:21 AM by Pianoman »
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2019, 03:01:18 AM »
Agreed, Abby. Yamaha really didn't think this touch screen through very well. It may be fine for indoor use, but a lot of us use the Genos for outdoor gigs. It's especially annoying when we realize they got the previous screens nearly perfect.

I too have had a few disastrous adjustments with the touch screen. You have to be VERY careful adjusting levels while playing. Tonight, I accidentally turned the drums up to 120 from about 55! It's so easy to do when you're trying to play at the same time. We can only approximate all our mixer levels while building registrations at home. It's a totally different ball game playing live. The levels must be changed fairly often. I suppose the better option is to adjust the mixing levels with the sliders. The only problem there is, you have to move them a fair distance before they become active, and then you overshoot!
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline ton37

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2019, 08:56:22 AM »
When I read all your sorrows I really wonder: why do you stick to the Genos??? Sell it, buy you a Tyros 5. I have read:  99% of the public won't notice. Only you and  yourself are struggling with the no-tilt-display and the handling throught the touchscreen. Easy solution, isn't it? ;-))
My best regards,
Ton
(Owned a Genos, a Tyros5, but currently A PSR S770 meets my musical needs ..)
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2019, 10:12:47 AM »
I wonder if Yamaha could update to make the screen go into black and white mode for playing outside.
Same principle as the Kindle white paper and black paper mode. Great for oudoors, same as a book almost.
Just a thought.
All the Best
John
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 10:16:08 AM by ugawoga »
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2019, 10:19:39 AM »
Hi
I also think Ton 37 has a point and if i were to play outside, I would have two keyboards. A Genos at home and a Tyros 5 for a gig.
To me a backup keyboard is a must for gigging musicians :) 8)
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2019, 10:51:00 AM »
I had trouble with Tyros4 and 5 playing outside as you could not see the screen in sunlight even with a tilt screen.

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2019, 12:08:27 PM »
Agreed, Eileen. There were times I still had to shade my T5 screen to see the display.

Ton, I don't play outside enough to justify the cost of a second-hand T5. In my view, the Genos has a far superior sound. I also refuse to fork out another wad of cash all because Yamaha took a major step backward in screen technology. Funny thing is I've owned three Yamaha synths and in each case, those screens all had adjustable contrast and were easy to read.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline gerard

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2019, 01:36:33 PM »
The only solution I came up with, and it is not a good one, is a cardboard box with 3 sides, a top, and no bottom about 4 or 5 inches high.
I still have to get close to the screen to see but, without the box, I can see nothing at all.

Gerard
 

Offline louwe46

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2019, 02:36:06 PM »
Gerard......

Make cardboard box inside in black, otherwise you will also have reflection

Kartonnen doos binnen in zwart maken , anders heb je ook weerkaatsing
 

Offline JanCK

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Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2019, 02:46:45 PM »
Here's a link to a previous discussion about this topic. 

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,49500.0.html
 

Online travlin-easy

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2019, 04:11:58 PM »
Unfortunately, ALL keyboard manufacturers consider this a non-issue. This is because their research clearly shows that less than 1/100th of 1-percent of arranger keyboard consumers perform outdoors.

The solution to this problem is quite simple - Supertwist Technology. The marine industry has been using supertwist displays on depth finders, digital radar systems, GPS plotters, etc... for more than 3 decades. When sunlight strikes the screen, it passes through tiny slits, then is reflected back through the images, thus making the display even brighter.

The only solution I found was to create a hood from black, construction paper, which was then attached to the edges of the  display with thin strips of Velcro. It resembled an air scoop on a hot rod car, worked quite well, and i used it for years.

One of the things I always insisted upon when I booked an outdoor job, though, was some sort of canopy of a dark color to protect me and my equipment from the sun, and from moisture, which can be a problem even when it is not raining. When I performed outdoors in the Florida Keys, as the sun began to set, the evening dew began to settle. The humid air was so dense along the ocean side that water poured off the canopy as if it were raining. Audience members raised umbrellas over their round tables to keep them dry, yet you could clearly see the stars above. I was amazed.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline gskip

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2019, 04:21:19 PM »
I recall seeing a recent post of someone using an external monitor. Maybe that could work for outside gigs. It would be worth investigating, but I would rather use the built in display for inside.
Skip
 

Online travlin-easy

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2019, 04:51:48 PM »
Unfortunately, Skip, external monitors are standard LED/LCD type displays, which will not work. The same as trying to watch your TV outdoors.

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline ton37

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2019, 07:40:07 PM »
Agreed, Eileen. There were times I still had to shade my T5 screen to see the display.

Ton, I don't play outside enough to justify the cost of a second-hand T5. In my view, the Genos has a far superior sound. I also refuse to fork out another wad of cash all because Yamaha took a major step backward in screen technology. Funny thing is I've owned three Yamaha synths and in each case, those screens all had adjustable contrast and were easy to read.
Sooo thruth, @Lee, it would be a deep shame and totally disregard the whishes of their customers if the next Genos doesn't have a tilt-screen or a connection to use a extern touchscreen. It was one of the reasons I sold my Genos. Time will tell 😉😎
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 07:54:30 PM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
(Owned a Genos, a Tyros5, but currently A PSR S770 meets my musical needs ..)
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2019, 08:41:14 PM »
I want tilt screens on the PSRs too.
Toril S

Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2019, 09:00:48 PM »
Hello,

because I could not see or switch anything on the Genos open air, I had to return the Genos. I have a lot of open air gigs over the summer. Now I have a PSR 975. None of my customers noticed that I changed the keyboard.
The Genos is absolutely useless for open air events.

Siggi
 

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2019, 09:38:10 PM »
Thanks, Ton...

Gary, you mentioned about using Velcro to attach a hood. How do you attach the Velcro to the Genos? I assume a sticky backed Velcro? If so, how does that affect the resale value? You'd have to remove the two strips of Velcro without damaging the surface.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Online travlin-easy

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2019, 09:49:51 PM »
The adhesive used on Velcro Industrial Strength is great, easy to remove, and leaves very little residue, which is easily removed with alcohol without damaging the finish of the keyboard. The secret is to use very narrow strips to hold things in place - a little goes a very long way. Just 2 1/8-inch wide strips about an inch long were all that was necessary to do the job.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2019, 11:07:53 PM »
Great info...thanks, Gary!
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline Robert van Weersch

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2019, 01:18:20 PM »
A tilt screen wil probably improve the angle range in which the screen is readable. But it will not fix the poor readability in sunlight. I've done numerous gigs in the open air, but even under umbrella's or stage covers, the readability of the T5 screen is bad. Luckily, I really don't need the screen when gigging because I work 100% from registrations and those are controlled from the iPad. Which, by the way, is very good readable in the sun.
---
Yamaha Tyros 5 76
Korg Liverpool (microArranger)
 

Offline gerard

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2019, 03:09:45 PM »
Thank you Robert for the idea!
I use playlists on the Genos.
And I use Mobilesheets Pro for my lead sheets which are automatically tied to my registrations on the Genos.
For every playlist I have on the Genos, I can create a setlist in Mobilesheets Pro to match the playlist.
When I play outside, I can see the Windows Surface Pro screen that I have Mobilesheets Pro loaded on fairly well.
So I can use the setlists I created to call up the registrations on the Genos.
I use the Surface pro in portrait mode, so I may look for a sun shade to make it even more readable in the sun.

Regards,
Gerard
 

Offline DonM

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2019, 06:34:31 PM »
I have a rare outside job Sunday, a pool party for a politician.
I will take the Korg PA4X, which has a nice tilt screen.  Also, will insist there be a cover over me.  I do outside jobs about three times a year, and as long as there is shade I can see the screen pretty well.  Not perfect of course.
DonM
 

Re: Playing Genos Outside Can Be Daunting
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2019, 10:07:23 PM »
hi all,

I have now - because I could not see anything on the genos screen in daylight - the genos given and I play now with a psr 975.
The 975 is a surprisingly good keyboard. on the psr display, you can see everything even in daylight and the touch screen mishaps are over. I already played 3 gigs with the psr. There are no polyphonic problems with midifiles.
the keyboard and the switches are not as good as genos.
but the sound is completely ok.

siggi