Author Topic: The Compressor  (Read 3837 times)

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Offline opticat

The Compressor
« on: December 12, 2017, 10:56:15 PM »
I've noticed that the output of the Genos is rather weak. I'm using the same sound system as I had on my T5-- a Logitech system, and I have to turn the volume knob quite high. I then went to the "COMPRESSOR" under the Mixer tab at the bottom of the screen. I turned the OUTPUT to 100 and saved as "User 1". This seems to have solved my problem. I am not certain what the EQ does, and am almost scared to mess with it. Hopefully I did the right thing.

Just wondering if anyone else has experimented with these controls. I'm thinking that the OUTPUT will stay at its saved setting and will increase the sound output of all my registrations that are currently saved. So much to work with on this keyboard. I love it!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 11:13:20 PM by opticat »
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 11:11:57 PM »
I am glad you solved your problem.   I will take note, for future reference to do the same.

I agree, for me too, it is almost scary to change anything in mixer tab.   

thanks for sharing the solution.
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline opticat

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2017, 11:14:16 PM »
Actually, Al, I just modified my post. The actual thing that I turned to 100 was the OUTPUT section of that window.
 
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Offline alans

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2017, 01:32:51 PM »
Hi opticat

I have done the same on my Genos,I too thought the volume was quite low, then I remembered what I did on my T5.It really pays dividends to play around with these settings.

Alan

Previous keyboards-Yamaha PSR 410,Technics KN2000,KN5000,KN6000 , KN7000 and Tyros5
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2017, 12:22:37 PM »
Hi Opticat.

I do not have a Genos yet, but if you could post a picture of the compressor screen, I might be able to offer some suggestions.

I know the Tyros layout quite well, but it's probable that the Genos has a different layout for compression.

Compression is not only about volume.

If used correctly, it binds the sound together, tightens and removes booming overtones of the Bass Guitar,
Bass Drum, and Snare Drum, among other things.
Bringing a good end result.

Best Regards and Merry Christmas.
Pianoman.
If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton Jr.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline zionip

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2017, 02:47:19 PM »
Hi Pianoman,

What opticat meant was just the Pan/Volume tab of the Genos Mixer screen.  The default channel volume output on my Genos is already at 100, which can be increased to 127 if needed.

There is a 'C' on the knobs right above the channel volume sliders, the 'C' does not mean compressor, it means 'Center/Centre' of the pan knobs.  I think the confusion came from here.

See captured diagram,
Paul

Offline opticat

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2017, 11:01:49 PM »
Here is the photo of the output screen. I saved it at 90 and as “User 1”.
 

Offline zionip

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2017, 12:25:36 AM »
I see, opticat, that you meant the path Mixer -> Master -> Compressor (Genos owner's manual p. 102).

The default preset is "Natural" with following values:
      Compression   28
      Texture           65
      Output            62

The other presets are:

Rich:
      Compression   34
      Texture           77
      Output            60

Punchy:
      Compression   42
      Texture           70
      Output            57

Electronic:
      Compression   50
      Texture           34
      Output            55

Loud:
      Compression   52
      Texture           17
      Output            48

The initial values stored on User1 to User5 are the same as the "Natural".

Your photo indicates that you used the preset "Rich", but changed the Output from 60 to 90, then saved the setting to User1.

Genos reference manual p.122 mentions:
• Natural: Natural Compressor settings in which the effect is moderately pronounced.
• Rich: Rich Compressor settings in which the instrument’s characteristics are optimally brought out. This is good for enhancing acoustic instruments, jazz music, etc.
• Punchy: Highly exaggerated Compressor settings. This is good for enhancing rock music.
• Electronic: Compressor settings in which the electronic dance music’s characteristics are optimally brought out.
• Loud: Powerful Compressor settings. This is good for enhancing energetic music such as rock or gospel music.

I temporarily picked the preset "Natural" but changed its Output level to 100, saved it to User1, tested it with Genos factory demo songs.  The volume was much louder but I did not notice any distortion - good for the GNS-MS01 2.1 speaker system for Genos for home players.  For live performance with PA systems, I think the preset "Rich" (with Output 60) will probably be more appropriate.

Thanks,
Paul
 
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Re: The Compressor
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2017, 05:10:29 AM »
I see, opticat, that you meant the path Mixer -> Master -> Compressor (Genos owner's manual p. 102).

The default preset is "Natural" with following values:
      Compression   28
      Texture           65
      Output            62

The other presets are:

Rich:
      Compression   34
      Texture           77
      Output            60

Punchy:
      Compression   42
      Texture           70
      Output            57

Electronic:
      Compression   50
      Texture           34
      Output            55

Loud:
      Compression   52
      Texture           17
      Output            48

The initial values stored on User1 to User5 are the same as the "Natural".

Your photo indicates that you used the preset "Rich", but changed the Output from 60 to 90, then saved the setting to User1.

Genos reference manual p.122 mentions:
• Natural: Natural Compressor settings in which the effect is moderately pronounced.
• Rich: Rich Compressor settings in which the instrument’s characteristics are optimally brought out. This is good for enhancing acoustic instruments, jazz music, etc.
• Punchy: Highly exaggerated Compressor settings. This is good for enhancing rock music.
• Electronic: Compressor settings in which the electronic dance music’s characteristics are optimally brought out.
• Loud: Powerful Compressor settings. This is good for enhancing energetic music such as rock or gospel music.

I temporarily picked the preset "Natural" but changed its Output level to 100, saved it to User1, tested it with Genos factory demo songs.  The volume was much louder but I did not notice any distortion - good for the GNS-MS01 2.1 speaker system for Genos for home players.  For live performance with PA systems, I think the preset "Rich" (with Output 60) will probably be more appropriate.

Thanks,
Paul

Strange thing is, Yamaha themselves is indicating these some settings are better for some types of music.
Now strange thing is, i play all kinds of music on an arranger from Bach to EDM and from acoustic piano to synths
So you might want a different setting for each type of music you perform.
Which would make it logical to have an option to change setting in a Performance memory.

Sadly you can not.
I just want more options or performances.
I am not a big fan of global settings.
It would make the instrument even more dynamic.
 

Offline maartenb

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2017, 07:28:21 AM »
I am not a big fan of global settings.
I've always thought that with compression and EQ, the first and most important thing is the venue and audience. That doesn't change much during a gig.

On second place comes the sort of music you play.

At least that's what I think. I haven't gigged, so I do not have experience in this field.


Maarten
 

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2017, 06:19:10 AM »
I've always thought that with compression and EQ, the first and most important thing is the venue and audience. That doesn't change much during a gig.

On second place comes the sort of music you play.

At least that's what I think. I haven't gigged, so I do not have experience in this field.


Maarten

I think the problem might be twofold.
you can use both EQ and compression to adapt your Genos to a new environment.(gig setting)
But you can also use them to improve your general sound in certain genres.
Now people playing just one genre on a gig, might be happy with only general settings.
But home players that want every song they play sound as good as possible might want a setting/song

they could make a twofold setting allowing both global changes as well as performance memory.
Global changes would be absolute in nature
Performance memory changes would be more relative in nature.
Which means that you could change in steps up or down from the Global setting.

to me EQ and expression are more like mixing tools.
Master effects, added to the final mix of a track.
For example if you have a dynamically played guitar part, you can use compression to to make it less dynamic (and make the rest of your mix less loud)
and then use the volume slider of the guitar to put it more upfront.

thats why having Master compression as a Global effect does not make much sense to me.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 06:50:50 AM by Spirit of the old South »
 

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2017, 04:38:10 PM »
Thanks for alerting me to this! What an impact the compression output has on the power and feel of the Genos. Whilst I was loving it I did feel it was a bit weak in punch and level but put it down to the Yamaha bespoke speaker system I’m using for downstairs use since I picked it up.

I’ve adjusted Natural to an output of 85 and it’s really kicking it out now! Brilliant result.
Yamaha Genos, Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha MODX7, Korg M3, Korg Wavestation SR, Korg M3R, Korg MS20, MiniMoog Model D, Moog Voyager, Sequential Prophet 6, Roland D10, Roland JV1080, Roland Drumatix, EDP Wasp, Ableton 9
 

Offline pchan

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2017, 10:50:36 AM »
For S970, adjusting ONLY the output level of the compressor (Gain Offset), is this same as turning the master volume to a higher level?
 

Offline zionip

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2017, 05:06:40 PM »
For S970, adjusting ONLY the output level of the compressor (Gain Offset), is this same as turning the master volume to a higher level?

Hi pchan,

I think you are talking about the following (see PSR-S970/S770 Reference Manual, P. 111):
Mixer / EQ button -> press the "Tab ->" button 6 times to get to "Master Compressor", the "GAIN OFFSET" on screen knob on the bottom right.

On the reference manual P. 111, it was briefly mentioned:
GAIN OFFSET    Determines the output level.

"GAIN OFFSET" means the output level of the compressor, which is before master volume.  By increasing the "GAIN OFFSET" value, the pre-master volume output level is increased.  You can further increase the volume by turning the "MASTER VOLUME" dial further clockwise. 

If you feel that the overall output level of your S970, including the headphones and the left and right outputs at the back of the S970 too low, you can tweak the "GAIN OFFSET" value to make it sound louder.  This is very similar to the compressor output on the Genos that we discuss here.

Thanks,
Paul

Offline pchan

Re: The Compressor
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2017, 12:22:17 AM »
Thank you zionip for your prompt reply.