Author Topic: Preset voice edit: new voice format  (Read 730 times)

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Offline voodoo

Preset voice edit: new voice format
« on: November 06, 2017, 03:17:50 AM »
Hey,

I tried to do some preset voice editing for Tyros and Genos preset voices using YEM 2.5. I made some interesting observations:

* In YEM we can create Tyros 5 custom voices and Genos custom voices
* Tyros custom voices can be used on Genos, but not vice versa
* Edit dialogs are different for normal voices, Tyros 5 custom voices and Genos custom voices
* Genos custom voices have parameters for mono legato
* Genos custom voices can select new DSP, for example Real Rotary
* Genos UVF format contains new parameters for storing all 16 DSP parameters in a block calles effect set

According to datalist, the DSP parameters are saved to song and registry, but not to voice set. This has to be examined further.

So long, please give comments.

Pj, interested?

Uli
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 03:31:29 AM by voodoo »
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 
The following users thanked this post: Marcus, pjd

Offline pjd

Re: Preset voice edit: new voice format
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 05:41:05 AM »
Hi Uli --

Thanks for making the comparison and posting the screenshots. Fabulous!

YEM as it is should be enough to build layered voices using regular voice waveforms. I feel pretty good about that. As you mentioned in a different post, more control over elements would be welcome: cross-fade, amplitude sensitivity, etc.

We've already discussed the need for SArt and SArt2 voice editing, so there's no need to go there, again (and again, and again :-) )

One short term fix/extension that Yamaha need to make is the ability to handle 18 or more DSP parameters. Sixteen parameters is not enough to edit and store the 18 parameters in the new rotary speaker effect. Here are the parameters as taken from the Montage Data List:

No.                        Parameter                     Range Value
- -----------------------  ----------------------------  -----------
1 Speed Control            Slow, Fast                    (0 - 1)
2 Drive                    0.0 - 10.0                    (0 - 100)
3 Tone                     0.0 - 10.0                    (0 - 100)
4 Rotor/Horn Balance       R63>H - R=H - R<H63           (1 - 127)
5 Output Level             0 - 127                       (0 - 127)
6 Mic L-R Angle            0deg, 90deg, 120deg, 180deg   (0 - 3)
7 Input Level              -6dB - 0dB - +6dB             (52 - 76)
8 Modulation Depth         0 - 63                        (0 - 63)
9 -
10 -
11 Slow-Fast Time of Horn  x0.21 - x1.00 - x2.00         (14 - 127)
12 Fast-Slow Time of Horn  x0.21 - x1.00 - x2.00         (14 - 127)
13 Rotor Speed Slow        0.0rpm - 88.3rpm              (0 - 127)
14 Horn Speed Slow         0.0rpm - 89.6rpm              (0 - 127)
15 Rotor Speed Fast        189.3rpm - 736.8rpm           (1 - 127)
16 Horn Speed Fast         209.4rpm - 817.6rpm           (1 - 127)
17 Slow-Fast Time of Rotor x0.21 - x1.00 - x2.00         (14 - 127)
18 Fast-Slow Time of Rotor x0.21 - x1.00 - x2.00         (14 - 127)

Without extension, we won't be able to set and store the rotor (de)acceleration (transition) times.

I realize that one needs to handle 99.99% of the cases in order get the product shipped and out the door. However, I hope that the Genos team realize that their own effect programmers are getting out ahead of the Genos user interface software. If the effect guys create more effect algorithms with greater than 16 parameters, we won't be able to change and store all of them either.

Hey, hey, thanks for diving into this! (And the diff!)

-- pj

P.S. My time and posts are going to be erratic this week. Sorry (in advance).
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 10:40:35 AM by pjd »
 
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Offline voodoo

Re: Preset voice edit: new voice format
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 04:11:10 AM »

No.                        Parameter                     Range Value
- -----------------------  ----------------------------  -----------
1 Speed Control            Slow, Fast                    (0 - 1)
2 Drive                    0.0 - 10.0                    (0 - 100)
...
17 Slow-Fast Time of Rotor x0.21 - x1.00 - x2.00         (14 - 127)
18 Fast-Slow Time of Rotor x0.21 - x1.00 - x2.00         (14 - 127)

Without extension, we won't be able to set and store the rotor (de)acceleration (transition) times.

And I realized that the new parameter "2 Drive" seems to have no effect on the demo keyboard. So we have to see what time will bring.

Uli
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline pjd

Re: Preset voice edit: new voice format
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 10:50:31 AM »
Hi Uli --

Thanks. We should pull together a short letter to Yamaha summarizing rotary organ specific issues. That might be more valuable and effective than a long eclectic shopping list.

We could work both sides of the Atlantic.  :)

-- pj

Offline FantomX

Re: Preset voice edit: new voice format
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2017, 07:23:57 AM »
Hey,

I tried to do some preset voice editing for Tyros and Genos preset voices using YEM 2.5. I made some interesting observations:

* In YEM we can create Tyros 5 custom voices and Genos custom voices
* Tyros custom voices can be used on Genos, but not vice versa
* Edit dialogs are different for normal voices, Tyros 5 custom voices and Genos custom voices
* Genos custom voices have parameters for mono legato
* Genos custom voices can select new DSP, for example Real Rotary
* Genos UVF format contains new parameters for storing all 16 DSP parameters in a block calles effect set

According to datalist, the DSP parameters are saved to song and registry, but not to voice set. This has to be examined further.

So long, please give comments.

Pj, interested?

Uli
      If you set Yamaha PSR A3000 instead of Yamaha Genos, can the LEGATO function be used in this latest YEM version? Thanks (I ask because I did not install this latest version in P.C.!
Curent Instruments:Yamaha A3000 Oriental,Yamaha VL7 (V2), Korg Triton(Moss),Korg Prophecy . Previus instruments:Yamaha Dx7,DX21,DX100,V50,Yamaha W7,Yamaha VL70m,Yamaha EX5R , Korg Triton Studio,Extreme,Trinity Plus ,Trinity V3, FantomX6,Yamaha Motif ES7..
 

Offline pjd

Re: Preset voice edit: new voice format
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 07:45:41 AM »
Hi Uli --

Got home last night and now back with my toys.  :)

If we start deep diving UVF, I suggest XML Notepad. (Screenshots attached.) It's a good way to navigate a big XML file. You can change values, mess with the document tree, and write the XML out. I might do some experiments with Xlint, too, as Xlint runs from the command line and can be embedded in scripts.

I like that voice element name field!

Need to run (literally) and will play with this some more. Also been thinking about using DOM or JDOM (Java) to read and navigate a tree.

We may need a separate "developer's" thread...  :o

Thanks for your explorations and summaries -- pj
 

Offline Seagull29

Re: Preset voice edit: new voice format
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 11:24:51 AM »
Hi,
very interesting . But can you adapt these voices for T5 by modifying some parameters and what parameters ? :o
 

Offline pjd

Re: Preset voice edit: new voice format
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 02:01:50 PM »
Hi,
very interesting . But can you adapt these voices for T5 by modifying some parameters and what parameters ? :o

Hi Seagull --

If you have a T5, you're basically set already. Just from a quick stroll through the UVF files, I would say that most of the voices are legacy voices that have appeared in T5 and earlier models. So, there's really not much to port to T5 that isn't there already.

What does look interesting about XML Notepad is the possibility to mess with parameters that are not exposed by YEM. Pretty much anything in the Motif's synth parameter guide is laid open by XML Notepad. Now, whether YEM will import a UVF produced through XML Notepad, that's something to be tested...

All the best -- pj