Author Topic: Drawbar organ sound  (Read 645 times)

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Offline jimlaing

Drawbar organ sound
« on: October 24, 2017, 07:12:14 PM »
Hi -

Has anyone compared the Hammond "clonewheel" sound of the Genos, to see if it is any better than Tyros models (i.e. the "Organ Flutes" sound that tries to simulate a Hammond B3).  The Tyros Organ Flutes were pretty good, but to me they seemed to lack a bit of the "bite" and "grittiness" that other "clone wheels" (and Hammond itself) does a good job of.  I'm hoping it's improved in Genos.  Not sure if they need better drawbar sound samples, or if it's a matter of better DSP on the organ flutes?

I'm also curious that Yamaha never seems to *fully* implement a "Hammond clone", in the sense that they don't implement "Chorus 1/2/3", only Vibrato.  Part of the classic Hammond sound is not just Leslie, but also C3 setting.  I wonder why Yamaha left this out?

Maybe someone could make and sell a DSP setting file that implements a good imitation of the "C3" sound to add to Drawbar sounds?

-Jim
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Offline StuartR

Re: Drawbar organ sound
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2017, 08:54:16 PM »
Hi -

Has anyone compared the Hammond "clonewheel" sound of the Genos, to see if it is any better than Tyros models (i.e. the "Organ Flutes" sound that tries to simulate a Hammond B3).  The Tyros Organ Flutes were pretty good, but to me they seemed to lack a bit of the "bite" and "grittiness" that other "clone wheels" (and Hammond itself) does a good job of.  I'm hoping it's improved in Genos.  Not sure if they need better drawbar sound samples, or if it's a matter of better DSP on the organ flutes?

I'm also curious that Yamaha never seems to *fully* implement a "Hammond clone", in the sense that they don't implement "Chorus 1/2/3", only Vibrato.  Part of the classic Hammond sound is not just Leslie, but also C3 setting.  I wonder why Yamaha left this out?

Maybe someone could make and sell a DSP setting file that implements a good imitation of the "C3" sound to add to Drawbar sounds?

-Jim
.
Jim,

I have some 3rd party Jimmy Smith B3 patches for the Tyros 5. Next time we talk I'll dig them out and give you some details.

Stuart.
 

Offline kla4

Re: Drawbar organ sound
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2017, 02:07:34 AM »
@Jim,
In the Yamaha presentation videos I could not discover any improvement, e.g. the Leslie sim sounded not good into my ears. (speed, speed-up, speed-down.... etc.)
All the Leslie parameters are configurable, so perhaps it needs a little tweeking ?

I think none of the arranger keyboards (Korg, Roland and Yamaha) can compare with 'real clonewheels' like Mojo, Nord C2D or Viscount Legend.
For the real look, feel and sound I ordered the Viscount Legend Live that will arrive at the end of this week.

Another few weeks and Genos will arrive  :)

Roel
Genos, Viscount Legend Live,  Cubase 9, MSP7's, SW10, QU-16, Bose L1's, EV 18"sub
 

Offline pjd

Re: Drawbar organ sound
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2017, 10:20:54 AM »
Hi Jim --

I'm interested in this issue, too.

As an aside, I compared the Reface YC against the PSR-S950 (with the Leslie and effects turned off). Pretty much the same to my ears. With the exception of the new Leslie effect in the Montage, I have't heard much improvement there either.

Take care -- pj
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Drawbar organ sound
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2017, 10:47:39 PM »
HI,

In the datalist there is a new DSP called "Real Rotary". This seems to be new. Is it the same like on the Montage?

Uli
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline pjd

Re: Drawbar organ sound
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2017, 06:25:44 AM »
Hi Uli --

It's almost certainly the same DSP algorithm as Montage. The DSP parameters match. (Source: Montage Data List) Here is a correspondence table:

Montage             Genos             MSB  LSB
----------------    ----------------  ---  ---
ROTARY SPEAKER 1    ROTARY SPEAKER 1  99   16
                                      99   17
ROTARY SPEAKER 2    REAL ROTARY       69   32

"ROTARY SPEAKER 1" is the former, go-to rotary speaker effect algorithm (WARM and BRIGHT).

The Montage version of the effect includes two additional parameters:

No. Parameter               Range                 Value      Tbl No.
--- ----------------------- --------------------- ---------  -------
17  Slow-Fast Time of Rotor x0.21 - x1.00 - x2.00 (14 - 127) 49
18  Fast-Slow Time of Rotor x0.21 0 x1.00 - x2.00 (14 - 127) 49


Soooooo, the Genos lets us tweak the horn acceleration, but doesn't let us tweak the rotor acceleration. Probably because the user interface doesn't provide access to more than 16 DSP parameters.



-- pj

Offline voodoo

Re: Drawbar organ sound
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2017, 01:16:04 PM »
Pj,

thanks for the perfect reply (as always). I think this is very good news. The new rotary came to the montage in the 1.5 update and was well accepted. I am looking forward to playing it. I am specially interested in the new drive parameter.

Uli

Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D