Author Topic: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum  (Read 1758 times)

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Offline Jeff Hollande

WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« on: October 08, 2017, 09:47:25 AM »
Thank you for bringing up this very interesting issue, Bachus. :)

I may hope there will be created an Official Arranger Keyboard Forum asap.
Just like the Yamaha Official Synth Forum.

How and where can we contact Yamaha to ask them to create an Official Arranger Keyboard Forum ?

Plse advise. Thanks !

Jeff
 


DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline Jørgen

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 10:00:15 AM »
Hi

Good idea...

But it MUST have more attention - and maintenance - than... http://blog.yamahamusicsoft.com/ - not updated since Tuesday, March 21, 2017   :( :( :(

Jørgen
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha
- since 1999
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 10:25:45 AM »
Call Steve Demming at (714)522-9000. Steve is director of Yamaha's technical support division.

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 11:08:27 AM »
Thank you for your feedback, Gary but we are located in Europe.
Maybe you have an e-mail address ?

Thanks, Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline EileenL

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 11:15:19 AM »
Yamaha's offices I believe are now in Germany. They used to be in the UK.

Offline frankmusik

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 11:18:50 AM »
Hi Jeff,
We have a Fine Forum from yamaha but at the Moment only in german.
I Talk to the European Office if there is a Chance to Build a English one.
Frank

http://forum.yamaha-europe.com/forum.php
Tyros Support in Germany
 

Online MBedesem

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2017, 11:20:16 AM »
Jeff:

In this forum on my system, it converts the posts directly to english:


http://forum.yamaha-europe.com/forumdisplay.php?5-KEYBOARDS


Regards,

Michael


« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 11:21:41 AM by MBedesem »
Michael P. Bedesem
mpb@vermontel.net
http://psrtutorial.com/MB/bedesem.html
Tyros 5
 

Offline Mendel

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2017, 11:40:35 AM »
Maybe Yamaha should make an official "arranger idea forum"  which everyone
can submit their request and in order to submit one you have to see out of all of the other ones
which one is the best one and he would read the detail of the request and based on how impressive
the idea is he will put one "up vote" and when it reaches an x amount of votes and importance of an idea/request it
will be handed over to one of the executive officers and keep in mind that certainly there will be a mods all the time... obviously

dose anyone understand what im trying to illustrate it might not be to clear or maybe yes..?


              is this a really good concept idea to do...?
              is this idea something to talk about and see if you can get Yamaha to do this?
              will this idea solve the problem and by the end result us an arranger that we dreamed about all the time?


 please put down your thoughts about this.


 
  Mendel


 
       
 

Offline frankmusik

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 11:48:10 AM »
Maybe Yamaha should make an official "arranger idea forum"  which everyone
can submit their request and in order to submit one you have to see out of all of the other ones
which one is the best one and he would read the detail of the request and based on how impressive
the idea is he will put one "up vote" and when it reaches an x amount of votes and importance of an idea/request it
will be handed over to one of the executive officers and keep in mind that certainly there will be a mods all the time... obviously

dose anyone understand what im trying to illustrate it might not be to clear or maybe yes..?


              is this a really good concept idea to do...?
              is this idea something to talk about and see if you can get Yamaha to do this?
              will this idea solve the problem and by the end result us an arranger that we dreamed about all the time?

 please put down your thoughts about this.
 
  Mendel
Yamaha started the questioning After the PSR8000!!!

The First machine with Customer Input from Europe was the psr-9000 than tyros series:-)

They did Tours to dealers and we invited customers... also a lot of questions and wishes in the Forum...

On such a Meeting the Genos Design was also Born.....

Yamaha listens a lot, but the Markets are very Different.

A live Club band in the States dont use a midifile...
Play live with a Synth
A european band 1-5 people often use midifiles...
Play with a tyros

Greetings from Germany
Frank.... Long Time in business.... knowing ticking of yamaha very well. :-)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 11:55:36 AM by frankmusik »
Tyros Support in Germany
 

Offline Mendel

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 11:56:05 AM »
hey frankmusik! nice to meet you  ;) by the way.. i know Yiddish which is very close to german ;)

regarding what you said about costumer input... im sure ppl living were you are will probably be able to have some type
of contact with yamaha with ideas.... but ppl like me and other ppl in this forum such as chony which have ideas and very critical
for the arranger which no way will they be able to tell some executive "Hey, listen you must put in to genos the ability to... "  only
ppl like you (or not ;)). the idea of this concept with the forum-idea is that ppl like me who have also a brain and musical talents
can reach out (im 15..) to the executives for my important idea but i cant i will never unless i have personal contact in some form

Mendel
 

Offline DonM

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2017, 11:59:51 AM »
You know, Yamaha had such a forum at one time, but discontinued it some years ago.
I thought it was very useful.

Offline Mendel

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2017, 12:01:33 PM »
i guess its bc everyone was making them crazy or something... and thats why my idea could come to life
bc only the most important and critical idea will be read by the exec. ... or something like that
 

Offline frankmusik

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2017, 12:04:44 PM »
Hi Mendel,
Believe me yamaha Knows all the wishes!!!!!
But they are also good business men... knowing Instruments to Build in good quality and modify always....

But they Will Never Build the Perfect Thing for everybody.... for the World market it is a novum that they changed the line, and cut tyros . The Most sold key around the World.

But with knowing that NEW Markets now ill buy a GENOS that Never before used tyros it is fine...

And they read EVERY Forum around the world!!!!

After my thread about the late night show in Berlin they called me to delete it, they noticed it very fast.... :-)

Greetings frank
Tyros Support in Germany
 
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Offline Mendel

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2017, 12:07:37 PM »
this gives me new hopes thanks for this post!
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2017, 12:12:30 PM »
That's the problem for me here in The Netherlands ... Yamaha headquarters in Germany ... local forums are only organised by a few dealers ...  >:(

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline Mendel

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2017, 12:15:17 PM »
jeff, there a lot just like you plus me, and there is enough that we could create the "idea-forum" for us, the 'outsiders'
 

Offline frankmusik

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2017, 12:16:54 PM »
That's the problem for me here in The Netherlands ... Yamaha headquarters in Germany ... local forums are only organised by a few dealers ...  >:(

Jeff
But you have good dealers (with Support) and forums in Dutch with john, henk ...
Greetings frank
Tyros Support in Germany
 

Offline Joe W

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2017, 02:35:03 PM »
This is NOT an OFFICIAL YAMAHA site.  It is run by and supported by USERS of Yamaha arranger keyboards.  Users tend to be enthusiastic about their keyboards.  And, since they use the keyboards, they tend to learn a lot about the keyboards.  Consider the typical store employee who may earn a commission on everything he or she sells.  They often do not know a LOT about each of the instruments they are responsible for promoting.  Corporate employees have a lot of responsibilities, few of which involve actually becoming an expert in the products of the company.  If someone is placed in charge of a web site, they will certainly know about creating a web page.  Do they know all about what the content should be or are they told what the content should be?  There would be a lot of layers involved in approving what is there and the final approval would probably be by someone who has a wide range of responsibilities, and also has higher management to report to. 

All I mean by the above is that a dealer or corporate web site or forum would not look anything at all like the PSR Tutorial web site and forum.  This is, indeed, a relatively unique place.
-- Joe Waters
Tyros5
PSR Performer Page
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2017, 03:05:18 PM »
When Yamaha were based at Milton Keynes here in the UK they would often have meetings where people were chosen to go for the day to discuses what they liked on the current keyboard and what they would like to see on the future one. The Japanese team would also be present. I was lucky enough to go to quite a few of these.
  As I have said Yamaha do listen to there customers and try to do what is possible at the time, but they also have to consider what most will benefit byers and what will sell. Also they have to contain things that will be of use to people in other countries as there products are sold world wide. Not always an easy task.
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2017, 04:52:31 PM »
Jeff, several years ago Yamaha's Steve Demming started a thread on several forums that was titled "Yamaha Listens." They listened. They implemented the vast majority of the requested updates and upgrades that users requested. There were hundreds of requests, many of which were pretty much the same items, but by and large, Yamaha stepped up to the plate and provided those requests, and for the most part, this had little or no impact on the pricing. No other arranger keyboard manufacturer, to my knowledge, has done anything remotely close to this. I could provide you with a list of those upgrades and updates, but I'm too lazy to do it again. I posted this information several times on a half dozen forums.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Joe H

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2017, 07:49:13 PM »
I can only speak well of Steve Deming.  He helped a couple of years ago to get an over sensitive button problem on the S770 and S970 keyboards corrected. There were 316 posts on the topic.  People were getting really frustrated over it for several months.  I spoke with Steve about it on the phone.  He took the issue serious and helped get the message across to Yamaha Japan whom by that time was aware of the complaints.  A firmware fix came soon after and a Yamaha tech support person posted on this forum informing us that the firmware update would fix the button problem.

I have spoken with Steve a couple of other times about some other issues and also via email several times as well as many other Yamaha USA Tech Support persons over the years.  They have always been professional and helpful. The exception is one individual.   :(

Joe H

   
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 07:50:46 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline rimek72

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2017, 03:00:53 AM »
Hi To Everyone,

till now I was active reader of the forum, which in my opinion is the greatest forum for many aspects related to Yamaha product.
I decided to write first post because this proposal/subject seems that is exactly what from end customer perspective is needed.

Yes I think that it is a great idea to have a direct communication channel with Yamaha Tech support and Product Managers (responsible for product evolution or bug fixing).


I'm writing it based on my experience with the one of the PSR model. At that time I bought just released new MOTL PSR model.
As I play a gigs, usually I used instrument as full band instrument, or sometimes as OMB for smaller events.

So I used registers for full band players, but when I played as OMB sometimes I was supported myself with midi files (with some band sets, allowing to add my playing on the top of that).
I found that midi files prepared in the instrument totally blocked entire vocal section of arranger and hard reset of entire instrument was required to get it work back. Please imagine that during gig's. that's not acceptable.

my instrument was send for the repair several times, as I was thinking that something is broken in my instrument. all the time it took several week for repair each time and guess what... all the time it was back not repaired.....


I described each small step in scenario that leads to the blocking for the instrument, but service was not able to recreate it...  (please imagine my frustration that time,...)

after several months of internal observations and testing I was able to isolate the problem , and found work around for myself. It required some extra work but at least entire system worked fine and stable.

As I'm located in small city I had no opportunity to verify whether the problem is related to my  instrument or entire line (at that time I was not part of any music forum yet).
A few month later I was visiting a big music shop for the other purpose but had opportunity to touch same Yamaha PSR model there, guess what,  the same problem, the shop crew was shocked that I was able totally blocked arranger in less than 30 seconds,... :D.


I was trying to get interest Yamaha about it (it was still offered model at that time), informing Yamaha, that there is a fault that impacts entire line of instruments and have isolated problem.
Please guess what, local Yamaha service was not interested in passing problem to the right team to get it solved, even next level of support(i found contact for them) dedicated for entire region was not interested in solving issue too. 
As this was important to me and as long term supporter of Yamaha equipment finally I get contacted with Japan support team, and guess what  - in 2 months new firmware version addressed problem for everyone, with big appreciation from Japan Yamaha team, they have very professional and sensitive for my feedback.

based on that experience I see benefits from having such official forum for both sides. Yamaha could have direct communication channel with what is important to us and get direct feedback/even solution for existing product quality issues. It could help in better positioning product.In parallel we may have better support for our questions related to their products.
I'm pretty sure that it could results in less work on Yamaha support site too, as once answered query could provide solution for many, so Yamaha potentially could save of their time too.

Kind regards
Rimek72
 
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Offline Joe H

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2017, 06:34:26 AM »
Rimek72,

Thank you for sharing your story.  The button problem was ignored also and denied by many dealers and authorized service centers. It took someone inside Yamaha who cared enough to get Yamaha Japan to take action.

Regards,
Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline pjd

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2017, 06:57:57 AM »
Hi all --

I think it's important to have a thriving independent site like PSR Tutorial Forum even if there is ever an official Yamaha sanctioned site.

Not to point any specific fingers, but I've seen instances of corporate censorship especially during the "speculative phase" before a new product announcement. Corporations like to control their messages. Corporations are not required to be democratic.  ;)  ;D

Yamaha may not be aware of the size of the Forum community. I didn't know. Wow!

All the best -- pj


 
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2017, 07:21:35 AM »
It would be interesting to know :

01. What do Yamaha expect from their authorized dealers and their authorized service centres ?
02. How does a music shop or internet shop become an " authorized " Yamaha dealer ?

Most local authorized Yamaha dealers I have visited are selling competitive keyboards like Korg, Roland etc.

IMHO it is self-evident a dealer is looking for :

- making money ;
- selling high profitable products ;
- gaining a nice annual bonus based on volume ;
- spending very low advertising costs ;
- keeping low stocks ;
- distributing reliable products ( to avoid after sales problems ).


Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline Joe H

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2017, 07:33:40 AM »
Hi all --

I think it's important to have a thriving independent site like PSR Tutorial Forum even if there is ever an official Yamaha sanctioned site.

Not to point any specific fingers, but I've seen instances of corporate censorship especially during the "speculative phase" before a new product announcement. Corporations like to control their messages. Corporations are not required to be democratic.  ;)  ;D

Yamaha may not be aware of the size of the Forum community. I didn't know. Wow!

All the best -- pj

Hi Paul,

While it may be uncomfortable to acknowledge the shortcomings of Yamaha, it's important speak about it in a civil manner.  Sounds like you agree with some of the "shared experience" posts on this forum.  It is disconcerting to say the least.  While I truly like Yamaha as a company, it suffers from its own corporate ills.

On the issue of Yamaha being aware of this forum... the last time I contacted Yamaha Support with an upgrade suggestion for the S970, I was directed to the PSR Tutorial Forum and even provided a link.  Furthermore I was told Yamaha marketing managers read the forum, so post our ideas here and they will be seen.

Joe H
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 08:40:28 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2017, 07:46:36 AM »

I would be very surprised if employees and/or staff of Yamaha's European Headquarters ( Germany e.g. ) are ever  reading PSR Tutorial Forum messages.

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2017, 07:54:29 AM »
 making money ;
- selling high profitable products ;
- gaining a nice annual bonus based on volume ;
- spending very low advertising costs ;
- keeping low stocks ;
- distributing reliable products ( to avoid after sales problems ).


Jeff,

Every dealer must make money - if not they go out of business very, very quickly.

Arranger keyboards are not a high profit item. In fact, the markup is quite low in comparison to other products in retail music stores. They take up a lot of store space and are often sold at just above the break even point, which is the reason that you usually do not see many arranger keyboards in independent music stores and lots of guitars and amps instead.

To my knowledge, Yamaha does NOT give dealers a bonus or rebate based on sales volume, or for any other reason. Independent dealers buy from distributors - not directly from Yamaha.

As for advertising, much of this is now done online on dealer web sites, which is far less expensive than print media. I don't know of any independent dealer that uses print media advertising anymore - just too expensive.

The products they sell, including arranger keyboards, are very, very reliable. In more than 4 decades on stage, 3 of which using an arranger keyboard, I have never had a single keyboard failure - not one! I wish I could say the same about my cars. And, I performed on average 5 to 7 days a week for all those years - music was my only job during the past 30 years.

Almost forgot, there was at least one Yamaha UK rep that was on this forum several years ago, however, I believe he no longer works for Yamaha at this time.

Hope this answers your questions,

Gary 8)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 07:58:13 AM by travlin-easy »
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2017, 08:20:39 AM »
Hi Gary,

Thank you for your reply. 
I am almost sure Yamaha's sales and marketing strategy and policy might be slightly different in the USA than in Europe.

I do not know the US market but in my region Yamaha arrangers have a VW reputation : reliable and a high second hand value.

In our region a high end arranger is one of these products dealers like to sell very much.

Jeff
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 08:23:41 AM by Jeff Hollande »
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Offline travlin-easy

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2017, 08:39:46 AM »
Jeff, in the US, dealers tell me that their markup (gross profit margin) is about 10 percent on average for arranger keyboards. If that keyboard sits around for any length of time, that profit margin drops quite a bit because of the retail space it occupies without making money. Retail business space in the US is very, very expensive to rent or own.

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2017, 08:53:13 AM »
There is no dealer here who could survive with a 10% profit.

I think our German member Frank, an authorized Yamaha dealer, can confirm my words.

It is hard to believe US Yamaha dealers cannot make money.
The USA invented sales and marketing strategies ! 😀

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2017, 10:09:20 AM »
Actually, it was the Chinese that invented sales and marketing in 1421. You may want to read this book, which I have many years ago - it's fantastic. http://www.discoverbooks.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=0060537639&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI883f_YXk1gIVCR-GCh2-0QS7EAQYAyABEgLs2vD_BwE

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline DonM

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2017, 06:40:13 AM »
For years I was aware of exactly what dealers paid for the Yamaha arrangers as I had an agreement with a local dealer to buy at his cost and help him advertise and sell them.
I still have a good idea, and if the dealer sells at or near MAP, there is plenty of margin.  In fact I would be surprised if one couldn't get a thousand dollars off MAP for a Genos.  There must still be SOME profit left or they couldn't do that.
The problem is that the internet sellers can easily beat local dealers' prices because they don't have to charge sales tax, don't have to maintain buildings, except for a little storage, etc.  There are only a small handful of music stores left in the U.S., and most of those have a large internet presence.  It's the changing of the times I guess.
If I still HAD a local dealer I would still be buying from him, even if it cost a little more. 
DonM
 

Offline Bachus

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2017, 09:34:05 AM »
Yamaha started the questioning After the PSR8000!!!

The First machine with Customer Input from Europe was the psr-9000 than tyros series:-)

They did Tours to dealers and we invited customers... also a lot of questions and wishes in the Forum...

On such a Meeting the Genos Design was also Born.....

Yamaha listens a lot, but the Markets are very Different.

A live Club band in the States dont use a midifile...
Play live with a Synth
A european band 1-5 people often use midifiles...
Play with a tyros

Greetings from Germany
Frank.... Long Time in business.... knowing ticking of yamaha very well. :-)

Thats definately true
Yamaha communicates with dealers
Mostly those dealers that sell a lot of arranger keyboards

This is as much a strong thing as a weak thing
It gives yamaha short lines of clear non cluttered input.
However, it gives only input from a specific group of peopel, dealers that typically sell a lot of yamaha instruments

Just using a single type of information is never a wise thing
Personally it looks like the new approach of the synth section really works well for yamaha.
The montage keeps improving and selling.
Also there is a huge amount of answers, tutorials and blogs to be found there.
There is also a lot of moderation on the forum
Criticisme is not allowed and either removed or countered by the moderators.. there is no open room for discussion


What in my opinion works best is if one or two yamaha people frequently would visit these forums and had the power to respond with official yamaha statements. That would be so 21th century.
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: WANTED Official Yamaha Arranger Forum
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2017, 10:21:55 AM »
What in my opinion works best is if one or two yamaha people frequently would visit these forums and had the power to respond with official yamaha statements. That would be so 21th century.

I've been involved in other forums where the manufacturer tried to make an appearance. Unfortunately, it was hounded off the forum by nasty posts and responses. The same thing will happen here. As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Tyros 4, Bose L1, Finale 2011
Check out my Registration Lessons