Author Topic: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments  (Read 1685 times)

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Offline ChristerLun

"Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« on: November 15, 2016, 02:53:12 PM »
Just got my Tyros 3 and I like it :-)

Most of it sounds just great, but some sounds are not good. Some guitars, some organs, harmonica, and more some of them s.art. They sound hard, sharp, metallic, a little like level is too  high and it is clipping but not exactly. Not so bad that you can't miss it either, but it can't be right.

I have looked at levels, mixing at 60 and below still gives it. I looked at more settings on the sound that I not really totally understand :-[ but I see nothing obvious.  EQ flat and so on. Styles sounds always great, sax, trumpet and many more sounds great so I am not so worried, must be some setting.

Any ideas?

Offline RoyceM

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2016, 03:02:10 PM »
When the abnormal sounds occur, do they happen on all keys or just certain keys...with light key presses or heavy key presses...at all times or intermittently?

- Royce
DGX-305, Roland E60, S900, S910, Center Point Stereo Spacestation V.3
PSR Performer page
 

Offline Joe H

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2016, 03:42:31 PM »
This sounds like a wave ROM chip gone bad that has the Panel Voices burned into it.  I had an experience like this several years ago with a Yamaha MU100R sound module.  Actually it was 2 ROM chips that failed.  There were screeching noises, sounds like a damaged speaker would make, and static sounds that continued to get worse over time. 

It started with just a few Voices then the number increased to many.  In the end it was the entire XG Voice Set. The cost of the chips exceeded the value of the module and Yamaha wanted $90.00 per hour to repair it plus shipping costs two ways.  So I found a used like-new module for less.  I sold the damaged module "as is".  Since the instrument also had a GM / GS sound set it was still fully functional in the "TG300B Mode" and compatible with GM song files and Roland Sound Canvas song files.  In the end I broke even and the replacement module didn't cost me a thing.

How long have you had the T3? If the seller knew there was a problem, I hope you paid with a credit card that covers fraud and/or defective merchandise.  If you have to send it to Yamaha for repair it could be expensive... like several hundred dollars USD or the equivalent in Euros.

Joe H
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 04:00:05 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline ChristerLun

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2016, 01:48:26 AM »
Oh no...

It is on all keys all the time.
I will make a test recording tonight and link here.

Chris

 

Offline jerryghr

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2016, 05:09:33 AM »
Try doing a factory reset.

The previous owner may have set the compression, and other parameters incorrectly.

Regards,

Jerryghr
 

Offline ChristerLun

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2016, 01:40:57 PM »
Made some sound samples, hard to tell problems from words...

Some samples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuEVizTU7II&feature=youtu.be

Some sounds do sound just fine, but some are not.
1. Rock organ
2 Prog rock organ
3 R&B tremolo (organ)
4 Big band brass
5 Trumpet
6 Master Accordion
7 Sax section hard
8 Harmonica (sweet)
9 Harmonica (s.art)

Some organs are worst, others is ok.

And a song where I use ok sounds, but still not 100% to my ears. My PSR 3000 sounds "better over all" styles and a lot sounds is better on Tyros 3, but somethings bugging me. It sounds better recorded here then live (good headphones), guess I lose some noice details in processing... (and I hear levels is not normalised, just raw from hdd)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL1_2NNEQ7o&feature=youtu.be


About reset, I think I read about different types of reset. Witch one is the "total reset"? Is it by [Function] - [Utility] -factory reset - Well I think I just answered it myself :-) Check all to be sure, or can files and folders be uncheked?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 03:17:46 PM by ChristerLun »
 

Offline jerryghr

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2016, 08:49:22 PM »
Do a factory reset. You can leave files and folders unchecked since they won't affect the sound.

Double check that the modulation wheel is all the way down.  I had a friend who took his keyboard to be fixed, and found out that is was the modulation wheel in the up position that was the problem.

Regards,

Jerryghr
 

Offline EileenL

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2016, 04:56:55 AM »
What do you have your EQ set to. Try it on MS03 or flat and check what you have the compressor set to. Some organ sounds sounded like they were far to load and distorting the speakers.

Offline Joe H

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2016, 07:20:18 AM »
That doesn't sound like what you  described in your original post.  Sounds like a DSP Distortion effect is being applied to those Voices.  Do a keyboard Reset.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline ChristerLun

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2016, 01:22:00 PM »
Thanks for all comments.

It is now factory reset, but still the same.  :'(
Only left registration and folders unchecked.

I found that if I turn DSP off the distortion is gone. Level was not high on the voice I tested, distortion comes at low levels to.
So it is a DSP problem as far as I can tell for now.

I made a short 18s video to show problem, also shows setting of DSP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jjeovpiDgs&feature=youtu.be


Is it possible to fix that?

Does anyone know how the DSP works behind the scene?

 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2016, 02:58:41 PM »
I watched your video and then tried the same voice on my Tyros4, which has the same DSP and DSP level, and it sounds much the same!

The 'distortion' that you are concerned about is, as you previously said, due to the DSP assigned to that voice, in this case 'AMP SIM 2' which is in the 'DISTORTION' DSP category.

You can reduce the effect by lowering the DSP level or even turn it off altogether using the 'DSP' panel button, or you can switch on the DSP 'VARIATION' button, which on my T4 changes the Amp type from 'Tube' to British' which gives a less harsh effect. You can then save a copy of the modified voice to USER, HDD1 or USBn to use in future.

I know that it may seem strange that some voices are deliberately distorted   ???,  but that is what is happening.

Presumably Yamaha are trying to recreate the sound that was often associated with such a voice through typical amplifiers of the time.

On this basis, I would suggest that this is what you are hearing on all the voices that you are concerned about,  but I don't think that there is anything wrong with your T3!
 
There are many preset voices on my T4 which if I had been asked about, I would have set up differently,  but at least we can modify and save a copy of the ones that we don't like,  rather than be stuck with Yamaha's original take on the voice.


Regards

Ian
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 03:13:01 PM by tyrosaurus »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2016, 02:42:24 AM »
Just change the DSP settings to something you like better and save as a user voice or into a registration bank.

Offline ChristerLun

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2016, 03:17:48 PM »
I have played a few hours now and it seems very likely that my Tyros is just fine  :)

If even a T4 sounds like that (thanks Ian), then I guess Yamaha want's sounds that way. There is still a few hundreds voices that sounds good to my ears to   ;) 
But I also think that reset was good, I feel that more sounds was bad before that.
And I also made like Eileen said and saved "worst" voice wiht adjusted DSP, just to learn.

Thanks all!

/Chris from Sweden
 

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2016, 12:17:16 AM »
Hej!
Om ljudet låter konstigt kolla in modulationshjulet och sätt det på 0.

If the sound sounds strange CHECK the modulation-weel and set to 0.

// Pierre
YAMAHA Genos, YAMAHA MFC10 Bose L1 II-pa,Mixer T1 ToneMatch
 

Offline ChristerLun

Re: "Hard" sharp (bad), sound on some instruments
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2016, 02:52:53 PM »
Hej Pierre, kul med fler svenskar här!

It's not the modulation wheel. It seems that Yamaha wanted that sound on some instruments that sounds wrong and distorted to me. I am not totaly convinced yet but I'm getting there.... Why make a sound that sounds like it clipping? Guess it must be imitation of old gear that was turned up to much when playing live, from like the 50-60's

Let's see if they got a better idea on Tyros 5  ;) (Just have to wait about 5 years for price to drop, guess many of you will use Tyros 7 or 8 then  :) )

/Chris