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PSR Tutorial Forum  |  Tyros Keyboards  |  Tyros 1 (Moderator: MBedesem)  |  Topic: Compressor and Equalizer Settings 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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BIG_BEN
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« on: August 01, 2007, 08:22:48 AM »

Gary and Gang,
Now that I have my TYROS back, the new boards did away with all my old settings. I know there have been mention of compressor and equalizer settings inthe past, but I would like to hear of the latest settings that you all have arrived at with all your experimenting.
I have done some initial work, as the Tyros is way too quiet as shipped. Here is what I have now:
compressor   offset 0, low +6, med +8 high +10
equalizer        q .7, low freq 80 hz, eq1 +2, eq2 +2, eq3 +3 eq4 +4 , eq5 +6
These are a first cut with only 5 minutes of experimenting. I sounds rasonable thru ear phones or speakers.
Any information will be appreciated.
regards
Ben
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Bill Grosse
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2007, 09:03:27 AM »

Ben,

I set my T-2 as follows:

Compressor = "Normal" - ( +10 Offset ) - ( -2 Low ) - ( +6 ) - ( +9 )

EQ =       EQ1 .07/80 Hz -4 dB
              EQ2 .07/500Hz +2 dB
              EQ3 .07/1.0k Hz  +3 dB
              EQ4 .07/4.0k Hz  +5 dB
              EQ5  .07/8.0k Hz  +5 dB

These settings would probably not be good for most folks because I have very large hearing deficit in upper frequencies.
None the less you may like the Compressor settings with your EQ's

Bill G
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BIG_BEN
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2007, 02:24:50 PM »

Bill,
It was really interesting to read the built in help files about the compressor and the equalizer.
I appreciate your sharing the settings you use with me. I will look forward to seeing others to check on the overall base gain used by others. By base gain, I mean what number do you start with when you set up. I have been doing a little playing around and you can easily overload the external speakers if you are not careful. Mabey the compressor gain should be set at full volume??
Ben
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 03:14:21 PM »

Ben,

I modify my EQ settings for the individual sound systems I use. For the most part, 5, 4, 2, 4, 8 is a good starting point when I'm using the Bose L1, and they are fairly close to that using the Logitech Z-5500.

Good Luck,

Gary Cool
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2007, 06:15:51 PM »

Bill Grosse-

Wow, Bill, I used your compressor settings and I heard sounds that I have not heard in the three years I've had my Tyros1. Can you please elaborate a little more. The "Normal" +10 / -2 / +6 / +9 that you posted... I don't have a "Normal" Type on my T1. The factory categories are: "Live", "Punch", "Club", "Studio" and User1 and User2. Are you saying that we should go to user1 (0 0 0 0), then set  "Basic Type" to "Normal", then enter the +10 etc. settings?

That's what I did, and it darn near blew my headset off!!!! It was a tad high for me, but it produced amazing sounds. If I have done the settings correctly, then I may have to lower the +6, +9 entries. In any case, you have confirmed what I have always thought was correct: CMP is one of the most areas in the overall settings.

Thank you again for all your help Bill..............Lucky
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2007, 08:17:27 PM »

Hey Lucky,

You've been quiet lately - good seeing you posting again.
I started with the "Standard" Type and selected "Normal" Basic Type and then set the numbers I posted above.
If you don't have the Standard type, select "Studio" with "Normal" and the same numbers should be close.
You can take the Threshold Offset down a bit to lower overall effect if it is too loud.
I have a second User setting I also use for lower settings that started with "Studio" Type and "Basic" Basic Type and
Threshold Offset of zero (0), +4 Low, +9 Mid and +13 High.

I have been unable to find any in depth explanation by Yamaha of the Master Compressor I am sorry to say.
After using it as I have, I can say i would not want a keyboard without this feature.
I just wish I had a chart of graphs from Yamaha showing the presets already there so
I could make choices with some degree of knowing what I was doing.  Huh

Take a look at Page 140 in your owners manual.
The small type around the edges of the Picture of the display say it all.
And , I am sorry to say, that is all Yamaha has to say about it - period.  Cry

Bill G
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2007, 08:59:04 PM »

Bill-

You are amazing! I need to correct something in my post to you. I was typing so fast that I omitted the "Standard" Type along with the others I listed. Yes, Virginia, there is a "Standard" on Tyros1s.

When I select "Standard", it defaults to Basic Type "Basic" +10  / +0 / +0 / +0. I changed the Basic Type to "Normal" and reset to +10 / -2 / +6 / +9 that you suggested to BIG_BEN. As I said, the sounds are amazing! Now I'm beginning to understand why the experts say that CMP is probably the most import aspect in the world of sound. So I decided to put it to the test- I played styles with various EQ settings, and the great sounds continued with just about any EQs. I will have to play around and fine tune your numbers, but you have really have hit a home run here.

Thank you again, Lucky
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2007, 09:16:44 PM »

Lucky,

I never discovered the Compressor when I had the Tyros 1 and I still thought it was an amazing keyboard.
Now that I have found it on my T-2, I won't give it up.
A good way to see what the compressor will do is to play a MIDI file with a lot of different things going on
and try setting threshold up anout +5 and then bring up low to bring the bass out front.
Take it back down and try the Mid to see guitars, saxes come out front and then the High for piano, flutes etc.

Bill G
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BIG_BEN
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2007, 11:07:25 PM »

I'M glad I got this dialog going. Remember the point of the compressor is toset the compression charistics, that is to reduce or enhance the variation between Highs and Lows in volume vs frequency. Again check your help file built in the tyros to get more information. There is also a lot of information onthe net about compression set up. Bill you are right in not wanting a board without this tool.
Thanks all and keep enlightening all of us.
Ben
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2007, 04:15:30 AM »

Hi All,
I don't think my PSR3000 has a similar Compressor does it ?
I've noticed though that if I go into my Mic settings, there is a compressor (for the Mic only). This seems to be set to "off" as default. When I switch it "on", it adds a lot of volume to the Mic output and it gives it a richer sound too. It also appears to be independent of registration settings, ie. not storeable into registration.

Hence, I'm hoping to know:-
1) are all my above observations correct ?
2) what is this function intended for (eg. give a richer voice or is it just another EQ for the Mic only ?)
2) can I set it to default "on" instead of "off" and if not, is there a way around it?
Cheers,
limmy
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2007, 09:21:20 AM »

Here are the setting used by James Sargeant (Yamaha Demonstrator)                                step-by-step

Tyros 2 with Tyros Speakers TRS-MS02
EQ is left at FLAT
Compression.  Type. Standard
                        Basic Type. Basic
                        Threshold +0
                        Gain Offset Low. +10
                        Gain Offset Mid. +8
                        Gain Offset High. +8

The above settings give good results with the added bonus of higher volume.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 04:26:36 PM by Seeker » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2007, 11:14:49 AM »

Graham_-

Thanks for the additional info on compression. You and Bill Grosse have steered us in the right direction. The James Sargeant settings (0 / +10 / +8 / +8)  you cited and Bill Grosse's settings (0 / +4 / +9 / +13) which both utilize Type "Standard" and Basic Type "Basic" provide enough datum any and all of us to create our own specialized sounds. Talk about stuff you won't find in the manual!

I'm also going to try these out with both the flat EQs and the adjusted EQs I've gleamed from this site (I'm at 6 / 4/ 4 / 8 / 10). After Bill's post yesterday I decided to give it a quick test drive. It sounded so great that I played for 2 1/2 nonstop, then reluctantly stopped because it was (past) my bedtime, and I also needed to stop by a certain room in the house. You are indeed correct Graham about the higher volume bonus.

Thanks again Bill and Graham, Lucky
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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2007, 12:52:36 PM »

Limmy,

No compressor on the 3000.

Gary Cool
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2007, 02:07:51 PM »

Thanks Gary,
I guess I'll have to be satisfied with just the Mic Compressor on my PSR3000.  Cry
Do you know if many PSR3000 owners use this feature ?
Cheers,
limmy
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2007, 02:51:10 PM »

Limmy,

All is not lost, you do infact have a multi-band compressor available to you as DSP1.                     step-by-step
Check Middle of the page 37 in the Datalist for your keyboard.
This is available through the Mixing Console -> Effect -> DSP1 -> Dynamic -> MBAND Comp -> Parameter.
Try Normal, Threshold Offset = +10 ; Low Gain = -2 ; Mid Gain = +5 ; High Gain = +9
Or adjust to your ears.  Wink

This is a "System" effect and should give close to same as Tyros.

Bill G
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2007, 04:18:31 PM »

Hi Bill,
Thanks for that. I'll check it out tonight as well as this weekend, (cos it's Friday now in NZ, Thursday in the USA)
Meanwhile, can you please confirm if the DSP1 Compressor setting is independent of Registration Memory ?  ie. if I choose a set of readings, does it get stored permanently in the keyboard and remain unchanged even when other Registrations are used ? (I'm not sure how to phrase this question, but I hope you understand what I'm asking.)

Cheers,
limmy
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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2007, 05:04:42 PM »

limmy,

Unfortunately, it is like all other effects.
It will default to the normal set when you turn the keyboard on next and
it will change when other programs make use of DSP1.

You can make it part of a registration or a MIDI file though.

Bill G
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2007, 06:55:37 PM »

Bill,

This is not a global function and must be tied directly to either a midi file or registration. As soon as you select another style the settings revert to factory default. At least that's what happened wheny I tried it.

Gary Cool
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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2007, 07:00:13 PM »

Hi Bill,
Thanks for that prompt answer. I just need to clarify something else before I start experimenting with my settings tonight and into the weekend...
I'm not near my PSR3000 now, but I think I've set all my MIC settings to DSP4 on most, if not all my Registrations. If I was to tweak DSP1 multi-band compressor, will that cancel or influence my existing MIC DSP4 settings ?

Cheers,
limmy
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« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2007, 07:11:31 PM »

Limmy,

I don't have a 3K, so I can't say for sure, but DSP1 is a system effect and will effect the entire keyboard output.
It will not cancell your DSP4 settings, but it probably will have the same effect on VH as it does to all other sounds.
As Gary points out above, It will go away whenever you load a new style , MIDI or whatever.
When you find a setting you like, save it in a registration or a MIDI file.
This is where the T-2 is different as it has this in a dedicated panel and it is not using one of the DSP's.

Incidenatally, the 2000 and 2100 do not have this effect setting available.

Bill G

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« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2007, 07:12:34 PM »

Gary,

What effect did this have on your keyboard sound?
Did you take some time to play with it?


Bill G

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« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2007, 02:33:02 AM »

Hi Bill and Gary,
I tried the DSP1 effects at home tonight but I'm starting to feel rather foolish cause, I can't seem to hear any difference in the sound output. Usually, any changes are easily picked up on my Z-5500. I've come to realise that I'm unsure what I'm supposed to listen out for.  Is it the Style, or the R1, R2 voices etc...
Cheers,
limmy
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« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2007, 04:24:23 AM »

limmy . Basically you should hear a more vibrant & dynamic output from your board with a little increase in volume.
You have 2 USERS to save your settings to in EQ. Switching between these and the factory settings provided you will hear a difference.
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« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2007, 04:25:05 AM »

limmy . Basically you should hear a more vibrant & dynamic output from your board plud a little increase in volume.

SORRY POSTED TWICE

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« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2007, 07:07:20 AM »

Bill and Graham,

The differences applied mainly to the right hand voices and not the style. If there were changes in the style quality, I couldn't hear them. Keep in mind that my hearing is shot to hell from years of being a first loader on a 3-inch dual anti-aircraft battery firing 120 rounds a minute. So, if those changes were very subtle, I wouldn't have heard them. The changes to the right hand voices, however, seemed more prominent.

Cheers,

Gary Cool
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« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2007, 07:34:56 AM »

Well this is a funny one.  Shocked

When I set them up on the T-2, they were on the styles and
all 16 MIDI channels, but not the R-1.
Only way I could get them on the R-1 was to set them using the Voice Edit and
then they were really there! No doubt about it.  Cheesy
I must say this, I don't have a 3K, so I have no way to verify how this will work or sound on a 3K.
The Master Compressor on the T-2 works wonders on everything, but it is a dedicated part of the keyboard.
The changes made there are definitely noticed, even to my worn out ears.

When I set up a voice using the settings I mentioned above using voice edit,
I get the same results as on my T-2 Master Compressor.
I have not worked enough with it on the styles and so forth, but
I can not see why the results would be any different.
Looking through the many effects available for these keyboards, I see many
having compression associated with them.
So my conclusion is Yamaha has given this resource to us because it works and is
maybe among some of the best effects hidden in among the many.
We will have to ferret out these things for ourselves.

Dennis has long begged us to get deeply involved in the Mixing Panel.
Could be he has been trying to lead us to the water. Anyone ready to have a drink?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Bill G
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« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2007, 08:54:55 AM »

BIG_BEN, Bill Grosse and Duncan-

BIG_BEN- You have started a really important post!!!!

My T1 is now producing instrument sounds beyond belief. And the grouped instruments in the midis and Accompaniment are so cleanly separated that they rival a live group. As Bill Grosse just said: "So my conclusion is Yamaha has given this resource to us because it works and is maybe among some of the best effects hidden in among the many". I second the motion!

I utilized a little bit from all three suggested settings, and I finally wound up with about 90% of BIG_BEN's settings. I also discovered that EQ settings have little effect on the end result, CMP is king!

Thank you all, Lucky
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« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2007, 11:44:08 AM »

We have to remember that players giving their ideal settings are based on their hearing ability. When I see +10 on these EQ settings suggests to me that person is compensating for a lack of high frequencies. This is no problem if one is compensating for a lack of high frequencies, but not as a guide for someone to use with good hearing.
We all have different preferences and hearing ability, so EQ settings should be used as a guidance only.

The settings I gave above from James Sargeant RegiStick sounds very good to me and as he is a young-ish !!! man should have very good hearing.
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« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2007, 12:15:13 PM »

Graham-

I agree with you. The +10 setting was a tad harsh to my ear. I finally wound up with BIG_BEN's (compressor   offset 0, low +6, med +8 high +10) figures which are very close to the settings you suggested (0 / 10 /8 /8). I thank you for pointing me in a direction that I never would have found without you (and Mr. Sargeant) and Bill and BIG_BEN. I was merely trying to make the point that CMP can really change the keyboard sound.

Regards, Lucky
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« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2007, 12:18:34 PM »

Graham,

You figured that out all by yourself did you?  Wink
Now you know why I don't post songs.
It won't sound good to most of you.
I have to turn drums and bass down on everything if I'm going to hear any of the wonderful high end voices.

Bill G
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« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2007, 04:03:30 PM »

Hi Graham,
I can hear the enhancements of my EQ's alright. I have been using my EQ settings, USER1 for the stage and USER2 for my own home practising. When I play in different club venues, I start with the USER1 settings and vary it to suit each venue. Often I might come back to this screen during the gig and tweak accodingly as the night progresses. The EQ's are great, I'm just careful not to boost too much of the lower frequencies, cause they lead to distortion of R1 and R2 voices.

What I can't hear is any further enhancements on my PSR3000 when going into DSP1 Compressor parameter enhancements. I guess my problem is not understanding what the Compressor function is, what it's designed to produce and hence I cannot gauge its effects, not knowing what to listen out for.  Cry  (Perhaps other 3000 users might want to experiment and feedback their findings here...)

I'm beginning to think (from your response above) that you perhaps might have also mistaken EQ enhancements for Compressor enhancements ?

Cheers,
limmy
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« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2007, 04:08:30 PM »

limmy. No I have not mistaken Compression for EQ.   The setting I gave are EQ Flat and CMP as I stated.

PS These are for Tyros 2 because I believe the 3K has CMP only for microphone.


Bill G. Having worked in the Hi-Fi & Sound business most of my working life, my ears have become trained unconsciously to good sound balance.
This I'm pleased about but it has it's downside because I'm very critical when it comes to sound quality.

what has surprised me is many professional performers own poor quality PA equipment and are unaware of the poor sound they are producing.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 12:00:11 AM by Graham UK » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2007, 04:55:48 PM »

Graham,

You hit the nail on the Head... "The Weakest Link Syndrome"...

Your sound system is no better than the weakest link......

I was sending a few songs once in awhile to friends... Just quit doing it...
They played it thru their 1" computer speakers.. and Eh so what....

I had/have a very good sound system Acoustic Research Studio partners Self powered system. (But 18 years old)...
Really sounded great.... Until I purchased the Spherex XBOX 5.1 speaker system... Never knew how
good the 3K sounded until I got them..... All the little sounds and nuances in the styles I never heard before came out like little flowers....

And on my senior gigs. besides the comments on weird Egg-shaped speakers, got lotsa comments on how good
they sounded.... from a group of Seniors not less...

Very excellent point you make on the Sound system.....Hoorah for you.

Seeker
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« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2007, 05:20:17 PM »

Limmy,

Try applying those settings to a Voice edit - Jazz Guitar for one.
Vibes for another.

Remember, you have to select the voice using the panel buttons and
the voice edit is at the bottom of the display where you make your voice selection.

You have to tab to the Effects page and down to 3 variation to make the changes.

Bill G
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« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2007, 02:12:18 AM »

Hi Graham,
I'm sorry I misunderstood your earlier post.  Cry
Cheers,
limmy
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« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2007, 02:17:38 AM »

Remember, you have to select the voice using the panel buttons and
the voice edit is at the bottom of the display where you make your voice selection.

You have to tab to the Effects page and down to 3 variation to make the changes.

Bill G

Hi Bill,
I think I've probably selected the wrong modes and hence can't to hear the effects. Can you please elaborate on the above, with a step by step for my slow brain ?
Cheers,
limmy
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« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2007, 08:14:43 AM »

Now that RegiStick Plus has been issued, there is just a slight difference in the recommendations from the previous James Sargent issue. These were written with the Tyros2 speakers in mind, but they work fine for me@

Compressor: Type: STANDARD   Basic Type: BASIC
Threshold Offset  +0
Gain Offset Low  +10
Gain Offset Mid  +6
Gain Offset High +6

I had previously put my emphasis on EQ, but Sargent appears to leave it Flat, which I am sticking to at the moment.

Brian
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