Author Topic: Genos and young musicians ?  (Read 12926 times)

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beykock

  • Guest
Genos and young musicians ?
« on: February 26, 2019, 07:18:32 AM »
I wonder if young musicians are buying the Genos ?

IMHO most young musicians prefer to play electronic piano's and / or synths.
 
Am I right or wrong ? 😯

Babette
 

tramano

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2019, 08:22:40 AM »
Hi Babette

I think you are right. Have a look in YOUTUBE at the audiences of Yamaha demo sessions for the Genos at several music houses: No young men, no woman, only male enthusiasts beyond 60 yrs - like me  :)  But, thats's OK, isn't it?
 

Murat

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2019, 08:28:38 AM »
Although it really doesn't matter age-wise who buys a Genos but I have also noticed (in this forum and everywhere else) that specially the Genos and Tyros is owned by older generation - perhaps because they are wiser so I am happy to be a part of it all.
 

Offline andyg

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 09:13:25 AM »
1) Genos is expensive for youngsters - it's what you aspire to as you trade up. Usually that means you've been playing quite a while.

2) I can't speak for other countries, and the UK does seem to be different to other countries, certainly the USA. We do have a lot of youngsters playing arranger keyboard. We have two exam boards over here offering proper, accredited exams for keyboard, we have lots of very good teachers who do know how to teach the instrument as it's really meant to be played :) (and some who sadly don't :( )

3) That means that, certainly from my own perspective, I've had, and still have, lots of students who have started on a little Casio or Yamaha PSR and as they've gone through the grades they've moved up to a bigger model. Most of them reaching Grade 3 and above have ended up with a PSR-S9xx model, with some parents happily splashing out on an S970! None have gone for a Tyros or Genos. An S9xx (or even a PSR3000) will handle anything up to Diploma level exams.

4) At some point, some of my higher level students might post some of their playing on the 'tube', and I guarantee that they'd blow most of the other stuff away! But I don't push them on this, it's up to them and their parents.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 09:15:32 AM by andyg »
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2019, 10:55:45 AM »
Young people only talk about making music on the computer. When I talk warmly about my keyboards they just shake their heads and yawn!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2019, 02:44:27 PM »
Young people are largely interested in two kinds of music - playing in a band or creating EDM. Even if the Genos could feasibly be used arrangers are not first choice for either.

Mike
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2019, 03:28:26 PM »
Arranger keyboards, by and large, are much too expensive for younger people, yet they will quickly spend $800 for a smart phone. Additionally, young people tend to want instant gratification. Learning the ins and outs of an arranger keyboard takes years of dedication and hard work. Young people are not willing to spend that much time and effort on anything.

Gary
Love Those Yammies...
 

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2019, 03:52:25 PM »
I wonder if young musicians are buying the Genos ?

IMHO most young musicians prefer to play electronic piano's and / or synths.
 
Am I right or wrong ? 😯

Babette

I’m 23 years old and I love arranger keyboards. The Genos is the keyboard of my dreams, I’m really in love with Genos.

Offline Joe H

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 04:04:38 PM »
I play EDM on my S970.  It requires a certain technique to play EDM on an arranger which is well suited for the genre.  It's all about knowing how to use Multi Pads and registrations.  My article on Multi Pads can give anyone a good start, but there is more to learn. The biggest problem is a lack of content.  Yamaha does not produce EDM styles other than Pop styles.  I think they are figuring it out with the Montage. But there are many subsets of EDM just as there is with Rock and Roll, Country and even Classical.

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 04:10:15 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2019, 05:31:43 PM »
Thank you for your interesting replies.

I understand most of the arranger keyboard owners are
" older " people.

Does that mean most youngsters are not arranger keyboard buyers ?
 
Is this instrument too expensive for them or do they prefer other music instruments, more suitable for their genre of music ?

I think it is not only a financial problem.
It might be possible the personal computer ( + midi kb ) offers them much more possibilities to create " their " music.

Babette


« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 05:35:53 PM by beykock »
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2019, 07:26:02 PM »
My opinion on this, even I don't have a Genos  :)

I think most young (teenager) don't care much to learn playing keyboard. As mentioned above, they're more into cellphones and gadgets. The thing is, playing keyboard is needed to LEARN and PRACTICE, and younger people don't have enough long term patience -I've been young once  :)
It goes something like this, I believe:
18 years old.. "I'd like to play keyboard too, would be cool...". Pocket almost empty.." let me try this $120 thingy..". After a while (few months?) excitement fades "..one needs $2000 gear to play reasonable music.. I can't get much listeners having $120 ivories..  playing piano is for loners anyway.. darn good I didn't throw big money on that..".
Ok, there are young talents, but they're  exception and in minority. And yes, there are young enthusiasts who make a 2-3 man band and play at local events trying for career. Then family comes...
When older, one has behind all the rush and time pressure.. and wish to play (good or not so good) for his/her personal pleasure or to entertain family or close friends -without much ambitions behind. Most of us (darn, I don't really feel THAT old), had some instrument in past and now, having more time (and few $ aside), we would like to enjoy playing music .. it's a hobby we couldn't fully practice when we were (a bit) younger.

As for Genos.. well, one really need to justify it's price. I mean, Genos alone wouldn't make me better musician for sure. But there's also aspect of enjoying "the best" keyboard, which I can fully understand.
Just sharing my thoughts...
Greetings
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline karl28

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2019, 08:30:44 PM »
I'm 42 so maybe not young young but have bought similar keyboards to gig with since I was 16. In them days I was using either a portable organ or Technics KN or Yamaha psr. A lot of people say that the Genos & Tyros keyboards aren't for pro gig use but trust me; they are. I've used them on cruise gigs, theatre work, and everything else and they are amazing. I've even had guitarist from an audience coming up to me tell me that the guitar sounds are better than theirs...
Yes they're a lot of money, but worth every penny.
That's my opinion :-)

2112

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2019, 09:28:16 PM »
We have two exam boards over here offering proper, accredited exams for keyboard,
Can you name them? I'd love to be able to pass that information to my friends.
 

Offline andyg

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2019, 11:05:49 AM »
Can you name them? I'd love to be able to pass that information to my friends.

Sure: London College of Music. https://lcme.uwl.ac.uk/home

Trinity College: https://www.trinitycollege.com/site/?id=1051

Looking at the other UK exam boards with keyboard syllabuses, they do not appear to have UK Ofqual accreditation, something that I consider very important.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2019, 11:23:51 PM »
Arrangers are fun instruments and have helped a lot of people enjoy making music. And make a living. But it’s wrong to paint a picture of them as some kind of ‘ultimate’ instrument. It’s a musical tool. People rightly have their personal preferences and there are other great choices. Frankly if faced with a choice between my Grand piano and an arranger - even a Genos - there would no contest.
Mike
 

Offline valimaties

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2019, 07:42:20 AM »
In my country there are a lot of mini-bands (born over the night) . Most of them are born with young people. Most of them are based on a music genre which is 70-75% listen in our country (I didn't listen or sing, because I don't like it), a music genre named "Manea" - based on Indian and Turkey music, but is a lot modified. Those bands uses in most of cases Korg (PA3X and PA4X) because they share their sets (packs). We know that Korg did not launched a software to let the user to encode a set. Only Korg can do that. So they are free to share, even if someone sell his set, who buy set can easily sell that set with the same money to two or more people, to retrieve his money back, because as I said, the set is not encoded to a keyboard, is free to load in any keyboard.
But, I have some friends (not so old, 30-40 years old) which they changed their Korg keyboards with Genos, only for sound.

I say who has Genos and PA4X they have the perfect combination (as arrangers pack ;) ).

Even if I like Genos more than PA4X, I think I will buy a PA4X too, because it has some things which will help me more than Genos.

Best regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos(1) v2.13, Korg PA5X, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline Graham UK

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2019, 08:36:17 AM »
I think most of the young generation first go towards an Electric Guitar.
I wish I had included Guitar when I took up reading music with the arranger. I'm still tempted !!!

PS.Early school days I played a mouth organ.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 08:56:28 AM by Graham UK »
DGX670
 

Evilchris

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2019, 01:58:51 PM »
I'm 39yo and previously have tyros 1 to 5  ;D and make gig from my 16yo  ;)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 02:00:24 PM by Evilchris »
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2019, 04:23:10 PM »
One of the reasons that guitars are popular is because its a relatively easy instrument to get to a basic level and strum along with singing. Of course, it takes dedication like all instruments to get really good, but it's certainly an easy instrument to get started on, especially for a keyboard player.  When I was a teenager, and already a pretty competent piano player, the guitar really took off, Shadows, Buddy Holly, then Beatles etc. Electronic portable instruments were little known and very expensive. So I took up guitar, and was soon good enough to get by in a band.
So Graham, if you fancy it, you should have a go. Never too old, - you understand chords, and the biggest hurdle to get started is building the finger strength and skin layers to press the strings. Takes a few weeks of soreness!
mike
 

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2019, 05:49:35 PM »
I think it is a bridge too far to say a guitar is an easy instrument. 😯
 
" Easy " instruments do not exist, IMHO.

It takes years before one becomes a good guitar player.

I agree the guitar is a very popular instrument.

Babette
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2019, 07:04:06 PM »
I gave up the guitar. Not easy😀
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline panos

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2019, 09:10:48 PM »
I use the preset concert guitar  and also learn to combine the Guitarhero with other guitars!!
Wasn't that difficult to learn  ;D
After all that was the reason I have bought a keyboard.

Tyros and Genos are expensive.Someone younger will choose something cheaper to play music.
If he/she chooses to focus on keyboards and not just piano playing and knows what keyboards can do.
Which I don't believe most musicians really know and don't realise what is the feeling of being able to play a combination of instruments LIVE!

« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 09:14:24 PM by panos »
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2019, 09:32:25 PM »
It is so fantastic! I have a whole orchestra at my fingertips. Arranger keyboards are heaven sent!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2019, 12:34:42 AM »
I was 27 when I bought the Genos. But indeed, I do consider myself as an exception in terms of age compared to the average Genos player. For Genos in particular, costs probably play a major role. There are also more affordable models though when talking about arranger keyboards in general.

One of the reasons why I stream on YouTube on a regular base is related to my 'quest' to make arranger keyboard more attractive for a younger (read: similar to my age) audience. I do this by simply showing what it can do and how it sounds in all genres. I believe I'm not that successful yet, but if at first you don't succeed, try, try again  ;)
 
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dman68

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2019, 12:40:34 AM »
I was 27 when I bought the Genos. But indeed, I do consider myself as an exception in terms of age compared to the average Genos player. For Genos in particular, costs probably play a major role. There are also more affordable models though when talking about arranger keyboards in general.

One of the reasons why I stream on YouTube on a regular base is related to my 'quest' to make arranger keyboard more attractive for a younger (read: similar to my age) audience. I do this by simply showing what it can do and how it sounds in all genres. I believe I'm not that successful yet, but if at first you don't succeed, try, try again  ;)

You sir, are a wonderful musician. I have viewed quite a few of your videos and am subscribed to your channel. I am always mesmerized at your performances.  Very good job young man.  8)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 12:43:12 AM by dman68 »
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2019, 12:54:08 AM »
" Easy " instruments do not exist, IMHO.
Easy is a relative term Babette. Of course no-one is  going to become Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton in a few months, but knocking out simple Cliff Richard and Buddy Holly songs to sing along level.. not that difficult. Just got to stick with it through the pain.
Mike
 

Offline Styles2psr

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2019, 05:20:28 PM »
I was 27 when I bought the Genos. But indeed, I do consider myself as an exception in terms of age compared to the average Genos player. For Genos in particular, costs probably play a major role. There are also more affordable models though when talking about arranger keyboards in general.

One of the reasons why I stream on YouTube on a regular base is related to my 'quest' to make arranger keyboard more attractive for a younger (read: similar to my age) audience. I do this by simply showing what it can do and how it sounds in all genres. I believe I'm not that successful yet, but if at first you don't succeed, try, try again  ;)



You're one of the best musician on Youtube, and for those who don't agree....go clean your ears.

You've got PM.

Regards, Jan,
 
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khudson7

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2019, 06:05:16 PM »
I was 27 when I bought the Genos. But indeed, I do consider myself as an exception in terms of age compared to the average Genos player. For Genos in particular, costs probably play a major role. There are also more affordable models though when talking about arranger keyboards in general.

One of the reasons why I stream on YouTube on a regular base is related to my 'quest' to make arranger keyboard more attractive for a younger (read: similar to my age) audience. I do this by simply showing what it can do and how it sounds in all genres. I believe I'm not that successful yet, but if at first you don't succeed, try, try again  ;)

Joost,your age mathematically, is about the same as mine.  (Your age x 2.5 = mine). I REALLY do hope you are very successful in your 'quest'.  Although I may not be in your target age group... :(, I listen to and have been extremely impressed with your amazing talent and knowledge of the Genos.  Thank you SO much for sharing you impressive talent.

May I ask...How long have you been playing?  Do you play professionally?  How long ago did you start with arranger keyboards?  What did you use before that? 

Sorry, I know these may be personal questions, and you can ignore them if you wish.  But I am just so impressed with your talent, I hope to play just like you, someday,...when I grow up! ::) :-\

Regards,
Ken
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 06:12:27 PM by khudson7 »
 

dman68

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2019, 06:16:44 PM »
Your age mathematically, is about the same as mine.  (Your age x 2.5 = mine). I REALLY do hope you are very successful in your 'quest'.  Although I may not be in your target age group... :(, I listen to and have been extremely impressed with your amazing talent and knowledge of the Genos.  Thank you SO much for sharing you impressive talent.

May I ask...How long have you been playing?  Do you play professionally?  How long ago did you start with arranger keyboards?  What did you use before that? 

Sorry, I know these may be personal questions, and you can ignore them if you wish.  But I am just so impressed with your talent, I hope to play just like you, someday,...when I grow up! ::) :-\

Regards,
Ken

Amen on the 2.5 multiplier ;D assuming you used age 27, as i'm closer to 2.54x  heh, heh ;)

Anyhow, that young man is amazing ;D
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 07:43:51 PM by dman68 »
 

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2019, 11:13:12 AM »
You sir, are a wonderful musician. I have viewed quite a few of your videos and am subscribed to your channel. I am always mesmerized at your performances.  Very good job young man.  8)


You're one of the best musician on Youtube, and for those who don't agree....go clean your ears.

You've got PM.

Regards, Jan,

Thank you  ;)

Joost,your age mathematically, is about the same as mine.  (Your age x 2.5 = mine). I REALLY do hope you are very successful in your 'quest'.  Although I may not be in your target age group... :(, I listen to and have been extremely impressed with your amazing talent and knowledge of the Genos.  Thank you SO much for sharing you impressive talent.

May I ask...How long have you been playing?  Do you play professionally?  How long ago did you start with arranger keyboards?  What did you use before that? 

Sorry, I know these may be personal questions, and you can ignore them if you wish.  But I am just so impressed with your talent, I hope to play just like you, someday,...when I grow up! ::) :-\

Regards,
Ken
Amen on the 2.5 multiplier ;D assuming you used age 27, as i'm closer to 2.54x  heh, heh ;)

Anyhow, that young man is amazing ;D

To just quote a famous aphorism: 'Age is just a number'

I've been playing since I was 7/8 years old. I started with arranger keyboard and eventually switched to pop/jazz piano when I was 18 years old. My keyboard teacher was a very good church organist, so all my Classical inspired improvisations are mainly inspired by his lessons. I do not play profesionally, I'm the archetype of a home enthousiast  ;D

Best Regards,

Joost

Offline markstyles

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2019, 08:29:59 PM »
Most arranger buyers, seem to be older. First, they are more likely to have the money.

A lot of buyers are doing one man band situations. It makes sense. You don't have to deal with 4 other guys, a ton of equipment.  It is more profitable for one person to have a high end arranger kbd.

I hesitated for many years buying an arranger keyboard, because i felt I was 'cheating' as a musician.  And often other musicians think that too.  When  DJ's started getting all the gigs, and musicians were dropped by many clubs, there was the same complaint.

Truth is 'the times - they are a ALWAYS changing.  What ever tool or technique helps you to make music is valid in one sense.   Arranger keyboards, don't serve a big purpose in a band, cause you've already got a drummer, bass player, guitar etc.  For many young musicians, playing in a band, is what makes it exciting. The comradely.

I would assume more younger musicians are buying arrangers.  They are certainly very helpful in studio work, for a singe composer, songwriter.
 

Offline pedro_pedroc

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2019, 09:47:24 PM »
Hello, Babette.

What's young for you?
I don't know, but I play Yamaha keybords since 15 years old, now I have 41, and I'm still a child!  :)

Take a look at my channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/pedromseleuterio

There are some new music / pop / rock also, and of course, some Classic ballads / movies / etc...

Regards,
Pedro Eleuterio
Brazil

I wonder if young musicians are buying the Genos ?

IMHO most young musicians prefer to play electronic piano's and / or synths.
 
Am I right or wrong ? 😯

Babette

Offline mikf

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2019, 09:59:17 PM »
Some younger people play arrangers, of course, but most arranger players are older. Price is one issue, but it’s also because of what Mark says, young players want to play in bands. It’s not a bad thing either, I would not advocate a young person to choose an arranger for their first instrument if they want to learn to play keyboard. Young people have time to learn to play, and converting to an arranger type instrument later if required would be easy. On the other hand, it’s much harder to learn to play piano or similar when you are older - and you want fast results. So arrangers are appealing because they are much easier to learn.
Mike
 

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2019, 10:14:06 PM »
Hi Pedro,

Thank you for your reply.

In my perception young pop musicians prefer to play a piano, a synth, a ( bass ) guitar or drums.

Babette
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 10:17:09 PM by beykock »
 

Offline rattley

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2019, 11:54:23 PM »
Mark wrote   "I hesitated for many years buying an arranger keyboard, because i felt I was 'cheating' as a musician"..............

I'm 59 and have had Yamaha arrangers (PSR Tyros and Genos) since high school. A few people have suggested my playing is somehow cheating as all those accompaniment voices are canned. I am not a pro . I rarely play with other musicians. So I must ask.......... Where or how else could a guy like me have a complete band or orchestra available to play with my songs??  My accompaniment is always on time. They don't drink. They don't fight. They obey my every command without question and we perform beautifully together. I'm not sure if many younger players play styles as I do. Genos is a musical instrument and pressing buttons or touch screens as well as playing the keys is technique. Just having the knowledge to control features is also technique. To be good at playing any instrument, whether electronic or acoustic, one must know and learn all the subtleties of that instrument.   -charley


Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2019, 01:11:33 AM »
Hi.

I'm growing older for each arranger keyboard that manage to pull money out of my bankaccount.
Bought my first 'autocompmachine' just for fun in the early 80'ies. Now we're writing 2019.
Looks like I've become an old fart with fairly new arranger, but was quite young when buy the first one..... ;D 8)

Sadly, I don't think that the young and upcoming musicians realize what those arrangers really are capable to do.  :o
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2019, 08:13:27 PM »
Quote
I'm 59 and have had Yamaha arrangers (PSR Tyros and Genos) since high school. A few people have suggested my playing is somehow cheating as all those accompaniment voices are canned. I am not a pro. I rarely play with other musicians. So I must ask.......... Where or how else could a guy like me have a complete band or orchestra available to play with my songs??  My accompaniment is always on time. They don't drink. They don't fight. They obey my every command without question and we perform beautifully together. I'm not sure if many younger players play styles as I do. Genos is a musical instrument and pressing buttons or touch screens as well as playing the keys is technique. Just having the knowledge to control features is also technique. To be good at playing any instrument, whether electronic or acoustic, one must know and learn all the subtleties of that instrument.   -Charley
Well put, Charley.

One other thing your friends are missing is, there's more to playing an arranger keyboard than pushing buttons and keys. When you have all those additional instruments playing along with you, sometimes you need to turn them up, down, or off all together. That takes something that a lot of arranger keyboard critics don't have - musicianship. Anyone can play the notes and chords, but can they make music? Many so-called musicians equate loud gear with musical appeal. Rubbish. The great orchestra leaders like Mancini, Feidler, and Kunzel were loud at times, but well controlled. There you go :).
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline panos

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2019, 07:40:45 AM »
I hesitated for many years buying an arranger keyboard, because i felt I was 'cheating' as a musician.  And often other musicians think that too.

In this "cheating" logic I guess the only real musician is the one who takes some objects made by nature, finds out where the notes are and plays music.
Every other "musician" is using technology before or after the invention of electricity.

A simple string(chord) of a guitar or a violin or a piano,or the holes of a flute also are using technology.
Some they like to call it "ancient" technology but still it is not only musician's ability that creates music.

whataguy

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2019, 04:07:54 PM »
It is called an 'Arranger' for a reason in that it requires that you think like those individual instruments. A big 'tell' is when players play a full right hand chord with a clarinet or trumpet, doesn't that require slits in your teeth? D♡
 

Offline JanCK

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2019, 04:16:10 PM »
Regarding musicianship, the Genos has absolutely improved my musicianship in several ways!  For example, since there's no way to re-set "beat 1", I'm very much more aware of staying in time.   Just to use drum fills requires me to know exactly which beat in each measure I'm on.  When you play solo piano, it's really common to add or drop beats, add measures whenever you want, and play rubato without really meaning to.  So with the Genos, my timing has really stabilized, and playing along to the various styles and rhythms draws out music that I never could generate by myself, without having the styles and rhythm to respond to. (I guess any arranger would do that, but Genos is my only experience with arranger kbs.)

Unlike playing with a band, I can keep one song going for over an hour if I want, and nobody complains or refuses to keep playing.  That is huge, because I can explore different ways to play a song or chord progression to my heart's content.  This has helped really get various chords and voicings, and creative use of scales, into my body, instead of just my mind.  Just because you can understand the various aspects of music intellectually, doesn't mean you can actually play it -- until you play it over and over and over and over, until you don't need to think about it anymore.  As someone who has spent countless hours playing exercises around the circle of 5ths, I can tell you without question, the Genos has made growing as a musician waaaaaaay more fun and productive (despite the big technological learning curve).

Also, learning to  adjust and adapt styles to match the sound I'm after has really improved how I listen to music.  I hear so much more, so my "ear" has greatly improved.

Regarding arrangers as cheating, or not for gigs -- I think Genos is great for playing solo, as part of a duo or even in a whole band, because it's versatile in how you can use it.  Even if you just use the various voices to play leads in a band and to comp just as you would with a regular keyboard, it can be a great addition to any band if only for the high quality of voice sounds.  Right now I'm exploring ways to play more meditative music for a local hospice house, using more of the synthesized sounds, strings, pads, etc. (BTW, would love to "talk" with any of you out there who are using Genos in this setting.)  I  don't imagine the bass and drums will be that useful there!  But they sure will be with a duo partner and in a band, and solo, when I'm more confident in operating the computer aspects.  The point is, you can still play the Genos as you would a regular keyboard, or add in the pieces that are missing, and that would just be like hiring the bassist, drummer, etc. (well, almost, anyway). That being said, when I do start gigging with the Genos this Fall, I expect to get criticism from other local musicians, especially when playing solo.  So be it.  Nice to be at an age in life where, who cares about a little criticism??!!

whataguy

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2019, 04:34:34 PM »
Print that post and frame it, this tells it all and right on the money. Couldn't criticism be defined as envy? Many times when people hear me playing the Genos they say 'that's like playing a jukebox, anybody can play that' to which I slide off the bench and invite them to make music. This also includes straight piano or organ players, too. At the beginning of my playing career (tube lowrey organ) and had to play for dancing, requiring the old pedal-chord, pedal-chord, I purchased a Seeberg auto-rhythm unit and was accused of cheating for not having a real drummer. And look where we are today. Do your thing and remember criticism and compliment both begin with a 'C'. D♡
 

Offline pjd

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2019, 06:49:15 PM »
In this "cheating" logic I guess the only real musician is the one who takes some objects made by nature, finds out where the notes are and plays music.

Amen. There are huge flame wars on the Keyboard (Magazine) Forum about the transpose button alone! [Please don't start such a thread here.  :) ]

Being a musician (amateur, pro, hack, dweezle, whatever) is as much about musicality as it is about dexterity, etc. and other skills both basic and refined. Same thing could be said about being an entertainer which adds a whole 'nother layer on top.

All the best -- pj

BTW, I regard myself as a musician, but not an entertainer.

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2019, 07:24:45 PM »
Quote
That being said, when I do start gigging with the Genos this Fall, I expect to get criticism from other local musicians, especially when playing solo.
So long as you don't get criticism from those who are listening to you play. After all, they are the ones paying your fee. The critical musicians are not! Great post!
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline JanCK

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2019, 07:41:16 PM »
It seems like it's human nature to criticize, so it comes from audiences, as well as musicians.  The good thing is, if you're having fun playing the music you love, there will be some who resonate with what you're playing who will enjoy it.  You can't please all the people all the time, so please yourself and some others will come along with you.  The others will leave early.  I always say, there's no explaining a person's taste in food, love or music!  You either like tomatoes or you don't, and who's to say either is wrong or right?  Same with taste in music, so you just can't take these things personally.  (Ha-ha, I'll remind myself of this as needed.)

Bachus

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2019, 06:52:59 AM »
I wonder if young musicians are buying the Genos ?

IMHO most young musicians prefer to play electronic piano's and / or synths.
 
Am I right or wrong ? 😯

Babette

A fun thing babette..

Many young people try to mimmick arrangers on the MODX..
Using arps for backings and setting it up more arranger like..

Just browse the webs and see..

There is 3 things holding young people from Genos
1) content, there is to much oldies content and not much modern content
2) Unfamiliarity with the controll concept
3) The price

this all for the western world..

In south east asia arrangers are still booming, young and old plays them..
Mostly in the cheaper regions like sub $1000


beykock

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2019, 07:48:54 AM »
Hi Bachus,

It looks like you are well aware of the needs of young musicians.
Thank you for your very interesting comments ! 💐

Babette
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2019, 10:25:42 PM »
This subject keeps coming up as it it matters. It doesn’t, eventually young players become old players and they buy arrangers. So Yamaha sells them Montage when they are 20 and Genos when they are 50. The market for arrangers is never ending.
Mike
 

Offline panos

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2019, 10:48:52 PM »
Pjd,
this one is for the “experts” in music.
They might learned something useful from it.
https://www.google.com/doodles/celebrating-johann-sebastian-bach

I wonder how much the "theoretical" opinions of music experts are really worth when for the past decades all we hear are the same reproduced melodies again and again and again….

The only thing that was improved lately is just the sound and not in all cases maybe?

Anyway,who is right and who is wrong about "real" or not real musicians?

Socrates maybe has got the answer to that:
“I know that I know nothing"
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 10:50:42 PM by panos »
 

Bachus

  • Guest
Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2019, 06:56:47 AM »
Pjd,
this one is for the “experts” in music.
They might learned something useful from it.
https://www.google.com/doodles/celebrating-johann-sebastian-bach

I wonder how much the "theoretical" opinions of music experts are really worth when for the past decades all we hear are the same reproduced melodies again and again and again….

The only thing that was improved lately is just the sound and not in all cases maybe?

Anyway,who is right and who is wrong about "real" or not real musicians?

Socrates maybe has got the answer to that:
“I know that I know nothing"

I personally both enjoy Bach (hench my name) and modern technology advancements.
But another personal hero of me, Freddy Mercury once said :

We are in a golden age of music. There will be a time when technology becomes so advanced that we'll rely on it to make music rather than raw talent...and music will lose its soul.

When in their creative process people start relying more and more on AI, music may grow stale
What looks like a good thing today, may bite us in the back tomorrow.
 

Re: Genos and young musicians ?
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2019, 01:17:46 PM »
Quote
We are in a golden age of music. There will be a time when technology becomes so advanced that we'll rely on it to make music rather than raw talent...and music will lose its soul.
Wow, Bachus! I was never aware of that quote. Truer words were never spoken. I work with a lot of top-flight musicians, and we all agree that very little "soul" has been injected into music since the late 70s, early 80s. Today's music is a mashup of electronic, thumpy crap that sounds like it's being sung by a whiny robot. The latter sound being the result of electronic manipulation of a person's singing voice, who should give up trying to sing and go back to stamp collecting or something else. They try to compensate for a lack of talent by using enhanced electronics. Heck, I'd wager with the tools of today, you could make Kermit the Frog sound like Michael Buble!

At least with an arranger keyboard, we can still play real music from those golden years, with a reasonable amount of authentic sounds. Each generation of arranger seems to be closer to mimicking the real band that created the song. I can't speak for anyone else, but since my first purchase of a PSR630, PSR740, PSR2000, PSR3000, Tyros 2, Tyros 4, Tyros 5, and now Genos, my musical "soul" has increased, as has my overall skills. So, it doesn't have to happen the way Freddy describes.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 01:19:29 PM by Lee Batchelor »
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.