Author Topic: Is it really necessary?  (Read 14029 times)

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Murat

  • Guest
Is it really necessary?
« on: February 21, 2019, 09:32:26 AM »
My opinion –

I totally agree that a keyboard specially a high-end keyboard should be able to do everything we want – but again, is it really possible to satisfy everyone? Is it really possible for a keyboard ‘to do everything’, should we not concentrate on playing and enjoying this beautiful beast called the Genos? Do we really need all those features? Are we really that proficient in playing the keyboard that we are constantly looking into very advanced options; are some of these actually help to hide our mistakes while playing or make it sound better than what we are really capable of playing?

One thing I keep seeing is ‘professional’ keyboard players think that home users don’t deserve the high-end / advanced features of the keyboard because we simply play at home. I think this should stop – because, to be honest I have seen many ‘professional’ keyboard players playing in gigs or their YouTube channels (those who are brave enough to share their performances) and believe me we really should not differentiate between a home user and a ‘professional’ gig player because the ‘professional’ players are not any better than a home user in many cases. It really is not whether or not you play a gig, it is all about if you are actually any good or not. Everyone deserves the same from the Genos who has paid for it.

The forum is filled with technical jargon, most is not really relevant to the Genos either. Surely, people are free to write what they want but more relevant questions are often gets missed out.
Tell me if I am wrong, but this forum is for everyone; doesn’t matter if you are beginner or an advanced player; or if you play gigs or play at home.

Enjoy your Genos and have a beautiful day.


 
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Offline EileenL

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2019, 11:25:25 AM »
Hello Murat,
  A great post from you and one I really agree with. It would not be possible to add everything people want to just one keyboard. Most really good players would not need a lot to produce beautiful music live at home or as a professional. In fact I have heard better music coming from home players than professional ones. Being classed as professional only means you get paid for playing this dose not always mean you are a better player, in fact I have known some players do a gig and not play a note because they have used Midi Files and pretended to play them.
  Genos is a lovely keyboard to play and if a little time is spent learning how to get the best from it then I think most people will be happy with it. KEEP LIVE MUSIC PLAYING  :) ;) :)
 
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Offline Toril S

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2019, 11:44:41 AM »
Very true!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 
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Offline sooty8

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2019, 05:04:39 PM »
Well said Murat, infact I went to see a keyboard player recently entertain in a club, I wanted to hear a Genos played in a function room,
what I heard was an evening  of  Yamaha Midis played through a expensive keyboard. To be fair  the singer had a nice voice, he did not require the keyboard at all. The audience  loved it, sitting at my table was a woman not looking very happy, I asked her if she was alright, she said she came to the function hoping to hear what this keyboard was capable of by a professional keyboard player, the lady played a church organ. A lesson for all professional artists, you never know who is sitting in the audience. On the keyboard players website he states that he has been playing the keyboard as a professional for 30 years. The next day I went onto the Yamaha Website and sampled some of the midis which i believed he was playing, they all were identical to the previous evenings entertainment programme. My wife said I should go out and entertain like this, the audience loved it and it sounded  great, I would feel awkward  doing this, as what do you do with your hands whilst the midi is playing?
As Eileen said, Keep Live Music Playing.

Steve
Tyros 5   S950 S975
Bose L1 compact speaker
HS8 Studio Monitors

I Love My Tyros 5
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2019, 05:15:35 PM »
I am not a great musician, but I never use MIDIS! But this really shows that most people do not care how the keyboardist is making the music as long as they are entertained!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2019, 05:50:54 PM »
I’m sure we have all experienced having a device - whether keyboard, car or whatever, - that has a hundred features we never use, but still lacks the one we really would like. They will never be exactly tailored for any individual. The features on these keyboards are driven by many things across a wide market. Generally good players just want good sound, and ease of use/playability. A lot of the other functionality is driven more by needs and wants of people who may not be very good players. Developing players need things that help them to sound better, and technical people want things that let them manipulate and control the sound production. They all paid their money!
On the question of professional playing, - even if not strictly correct I think the term ‘pro’ is used to imply a certain level of playing ability and experience rather than just whether they get paid. I personally have no problem with entertainers who get paid when they may not be what I might consider ‘pro’ level instrumentalists, provided they have something else of quality to offer .... great vocals for example. But when I hear a pure instrumentalist being paid that clearly is not ‘pro’ level, and hiding behind the keyboard technology, I feel that they are stealing the livelihood of people who spent a lot of time perfecting their skill.
Mike

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2019, 06:09:33 PM »
Hi,

Herewith I would like to say I am very happy some
" professional " arranger keyboard musicians are also a member of this forum.

I am very grateful they are willing - free of charge - to share their knowledge, their advise, their support and their answers.

Thank you all, professionals !💐

Babette





Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2019, 06:10:38 PM »
Excellent thoughts, folks.

I agree that a "pro" implies a higher level of playing ability. I think when the arranger keyboard first came out (early 80s), it was more of a toy for those who were on a budget, had a decent musical ability, and were tired of investing thousands of dollars in full sized, furniture cabinet organs that became obsolete overnight when compared to the emerging technologies.

A pro level player from the 80s would never think of buying a small PSR arranger (although I know a few who did ;)). The arranger has since evolved to the point of satisfying a huge spectrum of playing abilities - including pro level players. The best players on this forum are not belittling those who want to enjoy their Genos in their living rooms. Rather, they are citing the Genos as having a lot of advanced level functions that could be easier to use and even improved. Therein lies the magic of the Genos - money notwithstanding, it's a great instrument for a child beginner or a seasoned veteran of the stage.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

alfaholic

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2019, 06:57:10 PM »
You can use your instrument the way you like, in your living room or for gigs, it is totally your thing and it is irrelevant what others think or say about how you use your stuff. There is no right or wrong in this, arrangers are considered as toys sometimes, however I am aware that many people make their living with this kind of instruments. I am open-minded as much as I can, and I try to accept that different times brings different music, different instruments, 100 years a go people used only acoustic instruments, today we use electronic very often, we simply evolve.

With that being said, there is just one problem with living room musicians who use arranger keyboards, and that is the fact that they are most of the time satisfied with less than the ones you call professionals, or i would like to say musicians who play arrangers for living.
This means that living room musicians are not pushing their arrangers to the limits because they do not need to, which is totally different for those who play for money and for other people, they need to use their arrangers efficiently and some small quirks can mean big problems when playing live. Not to mention people who create content for arranger keyboards, they suffer the most because they are unable to be creative because keyboard makers are getting false messages from majority of their users that everything is OK, and they only need to address some minor bugs in their OS.

We all use our instruments differently, and no one is right or wrong here. Just we need to understand each other, and have respect for both, musicians who do not want to use everything they paid for and are satisfied with basic stuff, and that minority that want to push the boundaries further and make Yamaha (or other makers) to give us more options, untie our hands to use our instruments the way we like, or create even better content.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 07:29:02 PM by alfaholic »
 

Offline panos

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2019, 09:08:34 PM »
Murat is just that Genos or a Tyros 5 have so much to offer to the player with all their  functions and abilities so when the user focuses to some of them which he uses a lot he sees that these keyboards can do even more if Yamaha decides to level up some functions.

If the Genos or any other model of these series is a a toy or not?
Next time someone tells you this, ask him to play a song on his pro synthi or digital piano.
When he triggers his basic drumset tik tok sound,tell him that these toy sounds we use them as a metronome on our keyboards.

Our keyboards are the only instruments capable of real time control of different kind of organs playing together.

Tyros5Mad

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2019, 09:27:47 PM »
Most music created today (and I say that while holding my nose) is heavily "doctored" in post processing. Just look at VST plugins like Melodyne, which can change just about everything in a recording. It's like pictures or video that can be "doctored" by Photoshop.

I agree with Eileen that many so called home players can do great music and we see and hear that right here on this web site every day.

However there are many ways to create music and playing live is just one way. Playing a keyboard is just one way. Playing a guitar or bass or drums is just one way. Each to his or her own is my philosophy.

But, arranger keyboards like the Genos, Tyros, and other Yamaha keyboards, not to mention other brands of keyboards, have really enabled a single person to become a band and that was a giant leap forward for music. I do not understand why so called real musicians look down on arranger keyboards as being "home keyboards". There are many top level musicians, and I know some of them, that have an arranger keyboard as part of their equipment so they can have a way to get a quick feel for a piece they are working on.

That's my 2 cents. Regards, Richard
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 01:17:42 AM by RichardL »
 

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2019, 10:29:28 PM »
Good points, Richard. I think the negative bias that some pro players have with arranger keyboards is based solely on economics. I work with two very excellent vocalists who just love my Genos sounds and the way I present them. The one vocalist used to do gigs with a drummer and bass player. Now he works strictly with me. There's two guys that no longer work with my vocalist. I've replaced them. It's just like the auto industry. We need far fewer assembly line people, thanks to robotics.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2019, 06:29:08 AM »
In 2017 Yamaha have introduced the Genos.

Plse remember Yamaha's Genos commercial video's were made in a German Super Pro Recording Studio to show the world the Genos is a professional electronic instrument.

I believe Yamaha had the intention to convince professional musicians the Genos is a real pro music instrument and no longer a " toy ".

It looks like Yamaha's video advertising has been successful.

Nowadays more and more pro musicians are buying the Genos and are becoming active members of this forum.

I am very lucky to have more professionals among us.

Their input, their comments and their help are very useful to  make me a better home player by learning some of their professional skills.

Babette

« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 10:00:39 PM by Joe W »
 

Tyros5Mad

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2019, 09:51:41 AM »
The Genos is not the first keyboard to be promoted as a Pro music device. It been happening for a long time.

BTW on pro musicians. I dare anybody to suggest that Peter Baartmans or Martin Harris or any number of Yamaha demonstrators are not pro musicians.

Regards, Richard
 

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2019, 10:56:07 AM »
Both gentlemen ( from The Netherlands and the UK ) are real super professional musicians and very nice people.👌

Babette
 

Offline pjd

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2019, 03:24:56 PM »
I'm not into labels "pro", "amateur", "home player", … Labels tend to divide people. Besides, I don't fit any particular category (maybe "hack") and I'm sure that other folks aren't so easily categorized.

Part of people's occasional frustration is how Yamaha positions and promotes its own products. Please check out the Genos overview and feature pages on the Yamaha USA site. Yamaha are promoting Genos as a songwriter's tool. Further, right there on the features page is a big picture of a CFX grand on stage. You don't see pictures of people playing at home (although you will see such pictures for other products).

This kind of promotion creates customer expectations. If you're a songwriter, you expect DAW-like songwriting tools. If you buy a Genos and it comes up short, then you're frustrated/disappointed. Same if you're expecting a totally wonderful acoustic piano experience. Raised expectations often lead to disappointment.

I don't mean this as a slam on anyone or Genos. I love playing this thing!

Love you guys and wish everyone the best -- pj
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 06:22:29 PM by pjd »
 

Offline mikf

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2019, 04:09:23 PM »
I would have thought Genos, or in fact any decent arranger, is an excellent song writing tool for many genres. You don't need all the DAW functions to write a C and W song, or a ballad.  Full digital music production is a different thing entirely. But for many kinds of music, the final arrangement is done by live musicians in a studio with production experts, so all you need at the song writing stage is a decent demo tool to put something together. Any good arranger should be perfect for that.
As far as the piano sound is concerned, I am a pianist and have never found any digital piano that can compete with the feel and sound of a quality acoustic grand, but after taking that into account, the Genos sound does not fall that much short. Give a decent player a Genos attached to an 88 key weighted keyboard and he can make it sound pretty authentic. Maybe not to Classical concert pianist level, but for most other purposes .....
Mike
 

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2019, 06:27:08 PM »
Hi Genos Owners,

Do you agree the Genos is made for pro musicians as well as for home players ?

Babette






Offline Keyboardist

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2019, 06:38:42 PM »
And the list goes on and on.Cant please everyone as we all have ideas what works best in an arranger.
So many get so wrapped up in what it cant do; we forget what it CAN do.
If it makes you happy to buy and try to play a Geno's so be it. It has so many features you can spend the entire time trying to figure them all out and then the next one appears and we want that one!
If it works for you and makes you happy each time you sit an play it whether at home or on a gig then that's a good thing isn't it.
Be thankful that we have them available as we would obviously need a whole band in the past to accomplish what we have today to sound as good as it does.
Arranger Workstations
My Performer Page
 
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Tyros5Mad

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2019, 07:09:28 PM »
Genos is excellent - period. No matter what level of player you are.

RL

Offline mikf

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2019, 07:56:22 PM »
For gigging keyboard players who want the arranger functions, the Genos is going to be one of the front runners. But there are other good options from Korg and Ketron, and also the Yamaha PSR range. Final choice would be from personal preferences driven by things like detail features, price, weight, operating system familiarity. There will always be trade offs.
 I no longer gig and chose the CVP for home use. If I was still gigging I am not sure what I would choose, but do know for sure that any one of them would be about 200 times better than the stuff I used to gig 30 years ago!
Mind you, when I think about it, if I was gigging today I would probably be looking for venues with a grand piano so I didn’t have to carry anything at all.   ;)
Mike
 

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2019, 08:55:52 PM »
Hi Genos Owners,

Do you agree the Genos is made for pro musicians as well as for home players ?

Babette
Definitely!
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2019, 01:37:21 AM »
My opinion –

I totally agree that a keyboard specially a high-end keyboard should be able to do everything we want – but again, is it really possible to satisfy everyone? Is it really possible for a keyboard ‘to do everything’, should we not concentrate on playing and enjoying this beautiful beast called the Genos? Do we really need all those features? Are we really that proficient in playing the keyboard that we are constantly looking into very advanced options; are some of these actually help to hide our mistakes while playing or make it sound better than what we are really capable of playing?

One thing I keep seeing is ‘professional’ keyboard players think that home users don’t deserve the high-end / advanced features of the keyboard because we simply play at home. I think this should stop – because, to be honest I have seen many ‘professional’ keyboard players playing in gigs or their YouTube channels (those who are brave enough to share their performances) and believe me we really should not differentiate between a home user and a ‘professional’ gig player because the ‘professional’ players are not any better than a home user in many cases. It really is not whether or not you play a gig, it is all about if you are actually any good or not. Everyone deserves the same from the Genos who has paid for it.

The forum is filled with technical jargon, most is not really relevant to the Genos either. Surely, people are free to write what they want but more relevant questions are often gets missed out.
Tell me if I am wrong, but this forum is for everyone; doesn’t matter if you are beginner or an advanced player; or if you play gigs or play at home.

Enjoy your Genos and have a beautiful day.

Hello Murat.

I'm trying to understand the gist of your post, but it appears thhat something about professional
musicians seems to have somehow gotten under your skin.

I see that you've used quotation marks 3 times when referring to professional
musicians.

It's just another job man, just more pleasant.
We all have to do something to earn a living. Some people work in offices, some do other things,
and some play music, as a pleasant way to earn a living.

I know some very nice people on this forum who play music for a living and who have
gone out of their way to help many of us when help on many things is needed.

Not once have I heard any of these fine people say anything negative about home
players.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 01:45:23 AM by Pianoman »
 
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Offline Bill

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2019, 08:00:46 PM »
Hi Abby

I do not think that Murat has acted with any anger, maybe he is just taking a lief out of your book and speaking "Tongue in Cheek"

However the word is frequently used to indicate the being paid makes you a better player. The terminology is used to loosely these days.  The fact that someone is paid for doing something (like playing an instrument does not (in my opinion) make you a professional. 
Although I admire the garbage collectors that take my rubbish away each, the fact that they get paid does not make them a Professional Environmental Practitioner.   You would not call a Busker who earns his living busking in the London Underground a Professional Musician.

Those that Do an occasional GIG in a care home or cafe, are not automatically entitled to call them selves a professional. I my eyes a Professional is someone who is qualified to the highest level (NOT a couple of Basic Music grades from School) such that they can enrol in a Professional Organisation / Institute and progress in full time employment to the top tier of their game.

Most professionals do not refer to themselves as such, I would suggest those that publicly claim the "Professional" Title, do so as a status symbol to suggest they are better than someone else, which is what Murat was inferring to.

The above is not intended to inflame peoples emotions JUST MY OWN THOUGHTS on the subject.

Regards

Bill
England

Current KB:  YAMAHA GENOS 2
 

whataguy

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2019, 09:53:22 PM »
I played for dancing and dining in clubs on weekends for close to 25 years. But, I never quit my day job. Guess that makes me 'Lucky'. Don in MI
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2019, 10:00:29 PM »
And the gist here is that we all deserve keyboards with great features, as the Genos has, both professionals and home players. I agree. As a hobby player I could have got a keyboard with fewer features and saved some money, but I opted for a model that will give me years of fun learning to use the features. I am not offended if someone calls me a busker. Artist, pro, home player, busker, they are just labels.
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2019, 01:09:14 AM »
Hi
Adding to this conversation ,people who think Arranger players cannot be pro like are mistaken.
Ok, you have auto rythms but still have to change chords and your timing has to be 100% as your backing band is a bunch of robots that never give up.
They do not slow down or speed up a little to help the other members of the band. If you get lost they keep marching on whilst your fingers are trying to catch up. You know fingers have a brain all of their own!! ;D
Your backing band are relentless beasties and never drink a pint of beer.
On top of all that you have foot pedals pads and bend wheel to contend with which takes a lot of practice to get right.
Most musicians have a single instrument and play a part, but the arranger player has to have ten pairs of hands.
To me that is a skill in itself. Yes the good old one man band!! 8) ;) :) ::) :P ;D.

All the best
john
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 01:23:02 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 
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Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2019, 02:39:47 AM »
Good one, John. In a duet or trio, the Genos pilot must also look after the sound mixer on the fly. Talk about trying to do 10 things at once!!
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Tyros5Mad

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2019, 04:04:55 AM »
That's why I create a backing track for all the songs I want to record for the Internet. I want them to be half decent and I just cannot do all of the following at the same time:

- play the keyboard
- operate the multi-pads and knobs and sliders
- operate my Vocal Harmony box
- do the vocals

When I am jamming with friends or doing sing-alongs, I don't care. Mistakes do not matter.

Regards, Richard

Offline mikf

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2019, 04:57:39 AM »
Of course some pro musicians use arrangers. A pro in my book is someone who has  a high level musical experience, musical ability and talent. The arranger happens to be the instrument of choice for some.
But I don’t buy into all this button pressing art and use of features etc as part of the qualification. You have to be competent at whatever tools you choose to use if you are a pro. That’s a very basic requirement -like all journalists need to type well, but being a typist is not what defines a good journalist.

Mike
 

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2019, 05:38:44 AM »
Abby is absolutely right, IMHO.

A professional musician makes music to have income.
Her / his daily job.

Not an easy life.😯
A life most of the members and moderators of this forum do not ( want to ) know.
 
Babette
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 06:24:46 AM by beykock »
 

Offline panos

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2019, 08:54:21 AM »
Ι didn't get the feeling that the original post from Murat was against professional musicians at all.

I got the feeling that It was to complain somehow about so many posts with technical stuff concerning the Genos,
mostly from professionals players or even from some expansion pack makers that give them hard times and find Genos and Yamaha in general insufficient concerning some functions.

The "problem" my friend Murat is that we post on forum when things don't work as we wish and try to find a solution.
For the majority of the Genos' functions that work nice and smoothly there is no need to post anything at all, I guess :)

Offline valimaties

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2019, 09:36:29 AM »
Ι didn't get the feeling that the original post from Murat was against professional musicians at all.

I got the feeling that It was to complain somehow about so many posts with technical stuff concerning the Genos,
mostly from professionals players or even from some expansion pack makers that give them hard times and find Genos and Yamaha in general insufficient concerning some functions.

The "problem" my friend Murat is that we post on forum when things don't work as we wish and try to find a solution.
For the majority of the Genos' functions that work nice and smoothly there is no need to post anything at all, I guess :)

Very well said, panos.
Who don't need functions, or other bugs repaired, because they don't need them and don't use them, is simple that they would not need to read those posts... If there are complains, this means something happening: user fault or keyboard fault. There are users which when a real bug has been discovered, he/she did not post either bug exists or is a real user fault in his/her opinion. I like that a user to be honest and to recognize an existing bug and to accept that Genos is not a perfect arranger and it has some missing functions or some of them does not work as it has to be, comparing with other brands which uses the same function, or a PC. Do not forget Genos is like a big gadget and is made by some programming code (software) and some hardware. You can bound those two (hardware with software) in more than one way. The way is chosen by programming team, but it HAS to HEAR the feedback from user and to update or even modify an entire part of an OS/Software if that hardware does not work as is has to be.  Is my opinion as a programmer and a user of an arranger.

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
Genos(1) v2.13, Korg PA5X, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

beykock

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2019, 10:31:14 AM »
Hi Vali,

Thanks for your reply.

I did not know the Genos has still problems that are not solved yet.🐭

That information is new to me.
Believed all bugs had been solved though.😒
Apparently I am wrong.

Babette
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 10:36:30 AM by beykock »
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2019, 11:05:25 AM »
The whole world is full of BUGS!!

Get some repellent-- Workaround spray!!! 8)
Has the Genos got a few bugs?  "I wondered by i keep itching"  ;D :P
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Bill

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2019, 11:06:25 AM »
I played for dancing and dining in clubs on weekends for close to 25 years. But, I never quit my day job. Guess that makes me 'Lucky'. Don in MI

Hi Don

"Lucky" is not what I would call you.  Luck (to me) is when someone wins £20 million pound on the National lottery the  FIRST time they play.

You are obviously very talented and have utilised that Talent to maximise your income AND get the Most enjoyment to of life. Living Life to the full.  So I would say DETERMINED.

Regards

Bill

England

Current KB:  YAMAHA GENOS 2
 

Offline Bill

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2019, 11:13:46 AM »
Abby is absolutely right, IMHO.

A professional musician makes music to have income.
Her / his daily job.

Not an easy life.😯
A life most of the members and moderators of this forum do not ( want to ) know.

 
Babette

Hi Babette

I too did not appreciate how hard a Professional Musician's life is.  Like most members and the moderators (as you said) I only had to work 6 days a week for 12 hours a day to bring up my family.  I only had to work on my day off to buy the extra's.    :-\

In reality LIFE is HARD regardless of what you do. You get out of life what you put into it.   
PS: You could easily take the easy way out like me and the majority of the moderators and forum members.

Bill
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 11:15:35 AM by Bill »
England

Current KB:  YAMAHA GENOS 2
 

whataguy

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2019, 05:19:56 PM »
Hi Bill - Thanks for the kind words. Regarding your comments on "Lucky", I have found that Luck only occurs when 'preparation merges with opportunity' so I'm always at the ready. As far as the Lottery goes, instead of one person winning £20 million, wouldn't it be neater if 20 people were to win £1 million? Also, if anyone doesn't love their job they're in the wrong business. Noticed you are the proud owner of a "Genos" too and if you have any tips please send them along to me, I would really appreciate it. For instance, I just learned the other day that when you change the tempo of one of the songs in the G's playlist to fit the tune I'm playing (which I often do) you can get back to the original tempo by pressing the '-' and '+' at the same time. ****, some people are just so smart. Live life as though today was your last day.  Don in MI







 

Murat

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2019, 06:16:38 PM »
As far as the Lottery goes, instead of one person winning £20 million, wouldn't it be neater if 20 people were to win £1 million?
I couldn't agree more. That's what I have been saying for years. Instead of one person winning a 100 gazillion pounds wouldn’t it be nice to split that into £1millon shares so many other people can enjoy life? The way the jackpots are calculated should be changed.
 

Offline mikf

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2019, 09:18:21 PM »
I don’t think nearly as many would buy the tickets if it was divided into $1 million pots. The lottery companies need the potential thrill of a major life changing event to drive sales.
Just realized how far we are drifting off topic > :D
Mike
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2019, 09:42:46 PM »
We tend to drift a bit yes😀
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Floodie

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2019, 05:32:34 PM »
Music, and the tools we choose to produce it, are constantly evolving over time. Advances in technologies encourage beginners and empower experts. It's a win, win, no brainer. 

Musicians for hire may feel threatened by new technologies that appear to subsidize talent, and perhaps, unjustly facilitate new competition. My Genos came with a lot of features, but none of them were talent. Talent is subjective anyway, audience appreciation determines talent. Everyone has talent, some more than others, luckily my six year old granddaughter thinks I'm fantastic.

The full advantages of Genos are only revealed to those who put in the time to absorb and utilize its complex architecture. That in itself becomes a new valid talent. Talents add up, if I could play and do dishes at the same time, perhaps I could get my wife interested.

The technology keeps me inspired, I am constantly finding something new. I spend 4-5 hours a day with the Genos, sometimes without ever playing a note. Technology allows me to create music from my brain with less emphasis on finger dexterity. This is a good thing, the keybed and theory are unnecessary deterrents, let's replace them with telekinesis and see what people really think about music.

Bachus

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2019, 06:20:03 PM »
Hi Genos Owners,

Do you agree the Genos is made for pro musicians as well as for home players ?

Babette

I think its more aimed at home musicians..
But it also makes the best instrument for a pro musician playing solo gigs..
 

Offline sugarplumsss

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2019, 06:36:45 PM »
Music, and the tools we choose to produce it, are constantly evolving over time. Advances in technologies encourage beginners and empower experts. It's a win, win, no brainer. 

Musicians for hire may feel threatened by new technologies that appear to subsidize talent, and perhaps, unjustly facilitate new competition. My Genos came with a lot of features, but none of them were talent. Talent is subjective anyway, audience appreciation determines talent. Everyone has talent, some more than others, luckily my six year old granddaughter thinks I'm fantastic.

The full advantages of Genos are only revealed to those who put in the time to absorb and utilize its complex architecture. That in itself becomes a new valid talent. Talents add up, if I could play and do dishes at the same time, perhaps I could get my wife interested.

The technology keeps me inspired, I am constantly finding something new. I spend 4-5 hours a day with the Genos, sometimes without ever playing a note. Technology allows me to create music from my brain with less emphasis on finger dexterity. This is a good thing, the keybed and theory are unnecessary deterrents, let's replace them with telekinesis and see what people really think about music.

I am one of those pro musicians here. I have been a full time professional for over 50 years now.
I own the Tyros 4

Can you tell me about all the things my t4 is capable of? I use it as drum machine, MIDI player.. and rarely use its main functionality, auto acmp.

Then there is 2 steps up, the Genos... how is Genos even more capable than T4?
Thank you
I use T4 as a drum machine. Playing my own acmp and bass. MIDI songs are my latest interest. If anyone wishes to share knowledge on MIDI songs let me know.
 

Offline panos

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2019, 06:45:36 PM »
Hi sugar,
I think I just answered your question coincidentally on another thread  :)
http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,48946.msg383545.html#msg383545

Offline Yinon

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2019, 03:34:33 AM »
My 2 cents -

While it's true that pro musicians are called pro since they are getting paid to perform - (hence it their profession), I think it's a simple math that pro musicians are better than the average hobbyist.
Even if the the talent level is similar, the pro musician will inevitably spend much more time practicing, performing, improving, learning new etc all to be able to continue and remain current.

Second topic -
I agree that the Tyros/Genos is designed more for the living room/studio than live.
Starting with it's non standard shape (the Genos is extremely wide comparing to the other 76 keys on the market) and continuing to the revised style list which focused on older style rather then keeping current. A very painful topic is the half-bar break which is very complex to perform (comparing to Korg PA which allows you to get back to the "1" on a hit of button no matter where you are in the bar ... Or Ketron which allows the same)

Having said that - the Genos is fantastic since it's allowing you to change it all and since the SOUNDS it offers are simply non-beatable.
I gig with Genos and while it does take a lot of tweaking to get it to the level of a live show, once you do - its simply the best out there.

For those of you who are on the fence - I strongly recommend it.

Enjoy.

 

Offline J. Larry

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2019, 05:25:31 AM »
I wonder if Yamaha gets a chuckle from all this word parsing about the Genos----when its goal is to sell arrangers.  Are they concerned about amateur vs professional, or the competence level of the player/owner, as long as it’s a Yamaha purchase?

Offline emmaco

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2019, 07:38:23 AM »
Genos is REALLY a great toy !… :o

It’s the best tool i ever had for creating songs quickly.

And in a Band, it’s doing the job very well. What sounds !… :o
I played last week (2-300 people) and it was wonderful.

Exactly the same piano sound as Imagine ! The dream is NOT over… ;)

To be able to loop the sounds in Multipads would definitely be a good thing, and the management of insertion effects could be revisited.
but overall it's a fantastic machine.
And the startup time is much faster than on my old Motif XS7.
20 seconds instead of several minutes. Great on stage in case of power failure problems…

the only negative is the sound’s creation with yem.

but other than that for me it's the messiah.  8)
Hoping for OS 1.4 next month…


 

Murat

  • Guest
Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2019, 07:55:08 AM »
I think the decision to upgrade from a previous model of Yamaha to the Genos is very similar to the decision of whether or not if I should upgrade from my Samsung S7 Edge to Samsung 10 smart phone. Although there has been a couple of models in between i.e. S8 and S9, I still don’t think it is worth the upgrade from S7 to S10. And what do we do with the old phone which is still working perfectly!?

The same thing applies to our keyboards. If you have a Tyros 5 or even 4, you may not want to upgrade for good reasons. For example, I also have a Korg Pa3x 76 but would never upgrade to the Pa4x; not worth the upgrade.

So, if there was a new Yamaha called the Genos 2; I would never upgrade as I am very happy with my Genos.

 

Offline Joe H

Re: Is it really necessary?
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2019, 04:21:01 PM »
I think it doesn't really matter how you use/play your arranger keyboard... as long as you derive pleasure from it.

Yamaha's intent is to bring the joy of music to millions of people... whether it's the pro musician or someone who can barely play at all and has NO musical training what so ever.

 ;)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html