Author Topic: Style and Right balance...  (Read 723 times)

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Offline alfaholic

Style and Right balance...
« on: February 11, 2019, 09:18:31 AM »
Hello everyone,

I am not clear how to set the balance between the style and right 1 and 2 independently from registration memory. To be more precise, every time  I change the registration it resets the balance sliders to saved value. Even more if I use LIVE CONTROL knobs for balance it again resets lover and style, or right 1 and 2 both to 100, and then react to my input. I can use freeze of course and than it keeps the volumes, but it keeps the style as well. So if I understand well, the style volume in balance section is connected to the style in registration memory, it is not independent.
As I can see there is no way to set the balance on the go, at the level above the registration.

This is a real dealbreaker, because if I have 500 registrations with 500 songs set up for live performance, and suddenly I need the style to be 15% louder it is not possible to do without changing each registration on the go, or re-do all registration, not clear which one is worse.
From my experience this is often needed because the balance between the styles and right sometimes shifts if different PA system is used, in different room, or with different speaker setup.

How do you solve this?
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2019, 03:14:30 PM »
I think the best thing you have to do is reschedule all registrations and save again.
From what I understand you have 500 songs, which would give about 62 registrations, taking into consideration that each registration has 8 banks.
If you reschedule 10 registrations per day, in a week you will be ok!
From time to time I do this and I have a greater amount of registrations than yours.
As the English phrase goes: TO GET THE HANDS DIRTY!
This is my advice.

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline alfaholic

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2019, 03:47:08 PM »
Thanks, but I mentioned redoing all registration in sarcasm, not as some serious solution to this technical flaw. Other than that it would be just asinine to re-save all registration every time I need a different balance between the style and right.  :)
This is very strange, all other brands have this "feature", they all offer mixing above registration memory level so the user can tweak the balance on the go independently.
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2019, 03:57:21 PM »
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but have you tried pressing the "BAL" button which will bring up a display that lets you alter the style / L / R1 / R2 balance?

Why doesn't this do what you want?
Tyros5
 

Offline alfaholic

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2019, 04:16:15 PM »
Thanks. This is all tied to registration memory, so when you change the registration all balance sliders are restored to what is saved in registration. In balance view STYLE slider is at 100 by default, and in registration memory it is connected to the style so when you want the style to be recalled with registration it recalls this slider as well, so there is no way to make the balance separated from registration memory.

In practice this looks somewhat like this...

I created 500 registrations (as na example, what is important I have many registrations for many songs I play) with balance that I find good on my monitors. At Tuesday I play at location A on some large PA system where my balance setup sounds well. At Wednesday I play at location B where I only have plastic 15 inch JBLs where my balance needs to be corrected because my right/solo is now louder than my style section.
Logically, I change the balance slider for STYLE and turn the style volume up from default 100 to 113 for example, all is great. Then I press registration XYZ to recall settings for XXL song, and STYLE balance slider goes from 113 to 100, which is saved to the registration.  :)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 04:22:44 PM by alfaholic »
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2019, 04:52:20 PM »
As far as I know, there is no way to freeze the relative balance. If the registration changes it, you have to manually alter it again.

Sounds like you'll have to do that every time ....

Any advice from seasoned performers?
Tyros5
 

Offline alfaholic

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2019, 05:26:17 PM »
Thanks. Yamaha's logic.  :D
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2019, 09:25:58 PM »
Happened to me too in past, when I tried to set LiveKnob1 to "Balance Style/ R1,R2" and LiveKnob2 to "Balance R1/R2". Such combination is practically unusable, because Knob1 cancels Knob2 and vice versa. It was actually the first LiveControl Assign I tried on my PSR, because I see it as "main" live control, quite important for me.

Greetings
(PSR-S670), PSR-S775
 

Offline Al Ram

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2019, 11:16:04 PM »
It seems to me that the problem you described is caused by using different PA system.

Have you considered getting your own PA system . . . example a Bose L1 compact can handle from small to large rooms to accommodate at least 100 people or even more . . . .

That way the PA will always be the same and your registrations will always be consistent with your PA.

This is probably not what you are looking for.  But a lot of us do just that for live performance.  Bring our own sound system.

Just another alternative to consider.

Thanks 
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline DonM

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2019, 11:32:06 PM »
Volume pedal?

Offline mikf

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2019, 11:43:13 PM »
Canít this problem be largely corrected by playing round a bit with the PA controls. Itís not unusual for even the same sound system to sound  different in different set ups, far less a completely different system. If the system is brought back to close to the desired norm, playing around with equalizer, I would be a bit surprised if internal balance between lead and style was that far out.

Offline overover

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2019, 12:05:05 AM »
Hi alfaholic,

I'm using a Volume Pedal that only affects the Right Parts. I store these Pedal settings identical in ALL my Registrations: I have "Style Regs" and also "Voice Regs" (which call up only the VOICE and HARMONY settings, but NOT a Style).

Normally, I have NO Volume Pedal connected when making my Registrations: I simply store the Right Voices a little LOUDER than needed. When I play live then, I plug in the FC7 pedal and I can adjust (decrease) the volume of the right parts if necessary. :)


Best regards,
Chris

Online Fred Smith

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2019, 01:40:59 AM »
I agree that using the sliders in problematic because when a registration sets the balance, the sliders don't reflect those settings.

However, the Mixer on the screen does adjust to the registration's changes. So I use the mixer, rather than the sliders, to make any necessary changes after the registration it has been loaded.

Would this solve your problem?

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline alfaholic

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2019, 06:43:21 AM »
Thank you all, I appreciate your help.

@BogdanH Exactly. Those two LIVE CONTROL knobs are very interesting at first, but little bit gimmicky for me personally.

@Al Ram Not that simple I am afraid. I play mostly in large clubs with very large line-array systems with 18 and 24 inch woofers all around the place, some of them are placed well, others not so most of the time I bring only my digital mixer, play pink noise and measure frequency response so I can tweak the EQ to get as flat as possible, so in every location  I usually have similar setup and you are right. However sometimes I play in some smaller clubs where we have only 15 inch "plastic fantastic" speakers, which can not play anything below 50hz right in front of them, but if you are standing few meter away the bass is simply non existent so the right is so much louder.
All in all it is not possible to bring my own PA system except when I play weddings, then I choose what to bring with me.

@mikf Actually yes at some extent, but as I said I always tweak the master EQ to get the same frequency response it somewhat solves this, but there is nothing I can do with the difference between 24 inch woofers and small 15 inch middle tone speaker in a plastic box.

@DonM & overover Yes, the volume pedal is the only solution, however I need to buy it, bring it with me and think about it so I do not forget it at home, for example. Also, it is one more thing to think when playing. Yes, it is a solution but having that option in the keyboard, as many other keyboard have, is simply the best option.

@Fred Smith Of course, but I do not have time to play with those buttons, and wheel for both Right 1 and Right 2, the idea was to make the balance before Is tart to play, and then do that for every and each performance and location, very simple. My Roland does this, my Korg does this, Ketron as well, only Yamaha thinks it is not important.
 

Offline DonM

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2019, 07:06:48 AM »
Thank you all, I appreciate your help.

@BogdanH Exactly. Those two LIVE CONTROL knobs are very interesting at first, but little bit gimmicky for me personally.

@Al Ram Not that simple I am afraid. I play mostly in large clubs with very large line-array systems with 18 and 24 inch woofers all around the place, some of them are placed well, others not so most of the time I bring only my digital mixer, play pink noise and measure frequency response so I can tweak the EQ to get as flat as possible, so in every location  I usually have similar setup and you are right. However sometimes I play in some smaller clubs where we have only 15 inch "plastic fantastic" speakers, which can not play anything below 50hz right in front of them, but if you are standing few meter away the bass is simply non existent so the right is so much louder.
All in all it is not possible to bring my own PA system except when I play weddings, then I choose what to bring with me.

@mikf Actually yes at some extent, but as I said I always tweak the master EQ to get the same frequency response it somewhat solves this, but there is nothing I can do with the difference between 24 inch woofers and small 15 inch middle tone speaker in a plastic box.

@DonM & overover Yes, the volume pedal is the only solution, however I need to buy it, bring it with me and think about it so I do not forget it at home, for example. Also, it is one more thing to think when playing. Yes, it is a solution but having that option in the keyboard, as many other keyboard have, is simply the best option.

@Fred Smith Of course, but I do not have time to play with those buttons, and wheel for both Right 1 and Right 2, the idea was to make the balance before Is tart to play, and then do that for every and each performance and location, very simple. My Roland does this, my Korg does this, Ketron as well, only Yamaha thinks it is not important.
Another reason that I have a Korg and a Roland in my stable.  :)

Online Fred Smith

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2019, 08:24:36 AM »
Thank you all, I appreciate your help.

@BogdanH Exactly. Those two LIVE CONTROL knobs are very interesting at first, but little bit gimmicky for me personally.

@Al Ram Not that simple I am afraid. I play mostly in large clubs with very large line-array systems with 18 and 24 inch woofers all around the place, some of them are placed well, others not so most of the time I bring only my digital mixer, play pink noise and measure frequency response so I can tweak the EQ to get as flat as possible, so in every location  I usually have similar setup and you are right. However sometimes I play in some smaller clubs where we have only 15 inch "plastic fantastic" speakers, which can not play anything below 50hz right in front of them, but if you are standing few meter away the bass is simply non existent so the right is so much louder.
All in all it is not possible to bring my own PA system except when I play weddings, then I choose what to bring with me.

@mikf Actually yes at some extent, but as I said I always tweak the master EQ to get the same frequency response it somewhat solves this, but there is nothing I can do with the difference between 24 inch woofers and small 15 inch middle tone speaker in a plastic box.

@DonM & overover Yes, the volume pedal is the only solution, however I need to buy it, bring it with me and think about it so I do not forget it at home, for example. Also, it is one more thing to think when playing. Yes, it is a solution but having that option in the keyboard, as many other keyboard have, is simply the best option.

@Fred Smith Of course, but I do not have time to play with those buttons, and wheel for both Right 1 and Right 2, the idea was to make the balance before Is tart to play, and then do that for every and each performance and location, very simple. My Roland does this, my Korg does this, Ketron as well, only Yamaha thinks it is not important.

So youíve got a solution, and arenít really interested in what we had to say. Why waste our time?

Cheers,
Fref
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline alfaholic

Re: Style and Right balance...
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 12:06:58 PM »
So youíve got a solution, and arenít really interested in what we had to say. Why waste our time?

No solution to this until Yamaha gives us freeze option for balance.

I am interested in what you all have to say of course, just that does not mean I must do anything anyone suggests. I hope you understand I can choose what suits my workflow?

Only you can waste your time reading and commenting something you do not agree with, or do not like.
No reason to be offended with me being dissatisfied with Yamaha, really. It is just a piece of gear, not perfect as any other out there...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 12:12:51 PM by alfaholic »