Topic: Thought piece about AP/EP voice programming

[pjd]

Hi --

I did a little more deconstruction of MODX acoustic and electric piano voices and wrote up some thoughts:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-piano-voice-programming/

Waaaay too long to post here.

I think a nine-layer CFX grand expansion pack is do-able with what Yamaha have in hand. Might be an opportunity for a third party...

All the best -- pj

[Bachus]

Hi --

I did a little more deconstruction of MODX acoustic and electric piano voices and wrote up some thoughts:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-piano-voice-programming/

Waaaay too long to post here.

I think a nine-layer CFX grand expansion pack is do-able with what Yamaha have in hand. Might be an opportunity for a third party...

All the best -- pj

Lovely explanation..

I used the modx, and these samples to figure out the piano ranges for ppp pp p f ff etc..
by just muting all the other elements.. and then playing.. no sound, means you play out of the range..

Very easy to do this on montage or modx editor..

[BenoitM]

Thanks ! Great article, as always !

You wrote about 'Key Off Samples' for MODX/Montage , but does it apply to the Genos as well

Yamaha Expansion Manager is perhaps too limited, but at first sight I didn't noticed a way to trigger a sample on Key Off :/
If it was possible, it would be great to add additional sample for a piano on key off 

Benoit

[jimlaing]

Very interesting article - I always enjoy your articles.   I wonder how hard it would be to create two more piano "voices", that have the extra stuff in "numbers 2 and 3" of what you found on the ModX.  That way, a Genos owner could select CFX "stock" piano on Right1, and two 'custom' voices on Right2 and Right3, to give something closer to what happens for CFX piano on the ModX?

Or, even just one 'extra' voice with most of it, so you'd use R1 and R2 layered to get a closer-to-ModX CFX piano???

OR, are the raw samples needed (the ones that make up the CFX piano on the ModX) not all included in Genos?

Would take someone that knows how to work with the raw samples and 'elements' I guess, to create such extra voices ...

Jim

[soundphase]

Genos owner could select CFX "stock" piano on Right1, and two 'custom' voices on Right2 and Right3, to give something closer to what happens for CFX piano on the ModX?
Jim

Hello Jim

Good idea : You just invented a new Genos Mode (as Ensemble voice) : could be named "Solo voices".

Soundphase

[pjd]

Very interesting article - I always enjoy your articles.   I wonder how hard it would be to create two more piano "voices", that have the extra stuff in "numbers 2 and 3" of what you found on the ModX.  That way, a Genos owner could select CFX "stock" piano on Right1, and two 'custom' voices on Right2 and Right3, to give something closer to what happens for CFX piano on the ModX?

Hi Jim --

Thanks! We're on the same page -- I think I suggested that approach in the article (or maybe in another blog post). This is totally do-able. We kind of do that today when we layer another piano with the CFX, for example, in order to thicken the CFX. The new Right2 and Right3 has the samples which Yamaha left out of the base CFX voice.

If Yamaha doesn't offer this through Musicsoft, maybe some enterprising third party will do the job. It's a big task because sampling, editing and programming the many samples needed for a high-quality piano is very labor intensive.

All the best to ya -- pj

[Dromeus]

Interesting topic !

pj, I think there is a small but important detail you've overlooked. Each Part has a Common setting where you can impose Note Limits to all Elements. For the CFX Concert the setting is as follows:

- Part 1 Note Limits: C-2 to G5
- Part 2 Note Limits: C-2  to G5
- Part 3 Note Limits: G#5  to G8
- Part 4 Note Limits: C-2  to G8

By soloing the Parts you can verify that only Part 1 or 2 (depending on velocity) will sound for all keys below G#5, and Part 3 is responsible for all keys above G5. So, in fact it's not a layer, it's a split. What that means is, below G#5 nine levels of velocity switching is used to generate the sound. Above G5 the same CFX samples are used, but only eight of them, CFX ppp St is not used.

If you compare that to the CFX Stage, you will see the same split. Elements 1 to 5 (five levels of velocity switches) will generate sound below G#5, Elements 6 and 7 (two levels) will sound above G5, and Element 8 cares for the key off samples.

Moreover, besides some differences in filter settings, you find that for Part 3 the Release value for the Amplitude Envelope is 127, so it's extremely long sounding. But this holds true for the high Elements of CFX stage too.

Clearly we have more details in the CFX Concert compared to CFX stage. 9 vs 5 below G#5, 8 vs 2 for the higher keys. It may for sure pay off when performing some delicate solo piano pieces.

Let me add tow remarks. In your article you wrote:

When I connect Genos to MODX, I can the first three MODX Parts in the CFX Grand Performance by sending RIGHT1, RIGHT2 and RIGHT3 on MIDI channels 1, 2 and 3. You get a pretty decent concert grand. You won’t hear any of the key-off sounds because the Genos is not transmitting on channel 4.

To play the MODX CFX Concert using Genos (or any other master keyboard) as a controller you may set the MODX MIDI I/O Mode to "Single" (Utility / Settings / Advanced / MIDI I/O Mode). MODX Parts 1-8 will then respond to single MIDI Channel (to be set in MIDI I/O Ch., defaults to 1).

A further remark to BenoitM:

Genos clearly supports triggering key off samples, just play the S.Art Flamenco Guitar. BUT, when creating own voices it's not available for us regular folks that have to use YEM.

[pjd]

Hi Michael --

Thanks for your comments and posting the extra details about note limits and element programming. For non-YEM voice editing people, I'll just add that YEM can handle the required note ranges ("splits") and the filter/amplitude settings.

Also, thanks for the suggestion about MODX MIDI single mode. I'll give that a try.

Overall, the approach is using the Genos voice parts in the same way that Montage/MODX uses Performance parts. Yamaha? Yamaha? 

All the best -- pj