Topic: Anyone expecting an O.S. update?

[guitpic1]

I'm guessing this has been addressed but I must have missed it.

Any new OS updates for Genos coming? 

Just curious. 

My Genos is working fine...very happy with it.  Matter of fact, I still haven't upgraded to the latest OS.

[EileenL]

You should update your keyboard as soon as any updates come out as they put right things that were not working correctly. Update to version 1.30 as soon as possible.

[guitpic1]

Good point Eileen

Will do.

This last update will most likely be the last update we get?

[keynote]

This last update will most likely be the last update we get?

Only time will tell. As discussed previously on this forum there are still some lingering bugs people have encountered, myself included. You would think Yamaha would jump on the opportunity to fix these bugs and perhaps they are in the process of doing just that. It could require a longer time frame in order to make sure the new update (if indeed there is one) addresses all known issues and that it also won't cause other problems to crop up once the new update is installed. That means Yamaha might require comprehensive benchmarking and functionality testing before releasing the new update to the public.  We need to remember that Korg released OS update 2.01 for the Pa4x two years ago this month before releasing OS update 3.0 a few days ago. That's two whole years between updates so you see it may require more patience than previously anticipated before we receive a possible update for the Genos.    On the other hand, Yamaha may be concentrating all of its time and energy on Genos 2.0. If that is the case then a lot of current Genos owners would likely be very disappointed and may question the validity of upgrading to the Genos 2.0 once it is available. In other words, if Yamaha is content with the current situation regarding the Genos (bugs and all) then a lot of people might question Yamaha's overall dedication to product support on future keyboard products. Just sayin'...

Mike   

[Fred Smith]

This last update will most likely be the last update we get?

Many of us would be disappointed if there are no further updates.

Cheers,
Fred

[markstyles]

I went to update my OS on Genos from 1.20 to 1.30

I go to https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/firm_genos.html

The download link say 1.30, but it is actually 1.20

I tried to find the European download link.. But searching the European Yamaha support site, has 'no results' for Genos.. 

Does anyone have the proper download link..  Thanx,. 

[ugawoga]

Hi Mark

This is from the UK download site

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos/downloads.html#product-tabs

Hope this helps

All the Best
john

[beykock]

Hi,

I am told a new Genos update will be presented by Yamaha in February 2019.

I do not know if this information is true and has been confirmed yet.

Babette

[markstyles]

Thanx Ugawoga:

I decided to complete erase and format my usb stick drive.  (although it is the stick drive I used to install Genos 1.20).  It doesn't make sense US link would be wrong.  I'm downloaded 1.30 right now from Europe.  (dear I hope I'm not have a senior moment).. 

I got the same results, installed version 1.20.  The Genos goes thru the whole process, reading 4 or 5 stages of updating. After a failed attempt.. I decided to hold down two buttons  SYNC START and START/START.  This did result in installing version 1.30..

Don't understand,  are my senior moments getting so bad, I don't realize I'm having them?  ANYWAY the situation is resolved..

Thanx.

[EileenL]

It is the Stop/Start button you have to hold down. Then the boot up programme will show and then ask you to press Stop/Start again to start the loading. When finished you must turn of the Keyboard and then turn back on.

[ugawoga]

Hi
Do not worry Mark.
I am looking forward to the 5th Dimension!! since **** has frozen over in the USA.

All the best
John

[Murat]

Individual control for MULTI PAD CONTROL - an update is required to do the following (had the same issue with Korg pa3x initially and an update solved this issue)

It should be possible to switch on/off any button individually. For example, if I am playing back Pad 1 then I should be able to simply press Pad 1 button to turn it off.

Let’s say I am playing a song with a style; then add Pad1, the add Pad2, then I would like to stop Pad 1 and start Pad3 so Pad 2 and Pad3 plays back simultaneously. Currently, the only way to stop a Pad or Pads is by selecting the STOP button, That’s handy if I want to stop all Pads but it is difficult if I want to simply change the Pads I am playing.

So an update to make this possible would be great.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

Individual control for MULTI PAD CONTROL - an update is required to do the following (had the same issue with Korg pa3x initially and an update solved this issue) It should be possible to switch on/off any button individually. For example, if I am playing back Pad 1 then I should be able to simply press Pad 1 button to turn it off. Let’s say I am playing a song with a style; then add Pad1, the add Pad2, then I would like to stop Pad 1 and start Pad3 so Pad 2 and Pad3 plays back simultaneously. Currently, the only way to stop a Pad or Pads is by selecting the STOP button, That’s handy if I want to stop all Pads but it is difficult if I want to simply change the Pads I am playing. So an update to make this possible would be great.

Completely agreed. The current method totally sucks! It may be fine for playing at home, but on a gig...
Perhaps Yamaha should start asking gigging musicians what needs to be put on the Genos generation. It's all right to only consider the home player but we gigging guys need better control. Home players can easily use a gigging machine but not the other way around.

[Murat]

I am a home player, it is frustrating, the lack of controllability of the Pad buttons that is. Whether or not you play in gigs this is a must have, I think.

[Bachus]

Individual control for MULTI PAD CONTROL - an update is required to do the following (had the same issue with Korg pa3x initially and an update solved this issue)

It should be possible to switch on/off any button individually. For example, if I am playing back Pad 1 then I should be able to simply press Pad 1 button to turn it off.

Let’s say I am playing a song with a style; then add Pad1, the add Pad2, then I would like to stop Pad 1 and start Pad3 so Pad 2 and Pad3 plays back simultaneously. Currently, the only way to stop a Pad or Pads is by selecting the STOP button, That’s handy if I want to stop all Pads but it is difficult if I want to simply change the Pads I am playing.

So an update to make this possible would be great.

You know you can stop each multipad individually, by pressing stop and the button(s) simultanously?

[ugawoga]

Hi
Would be nice just to press the pad again for off and again for on.
You can always set them all to on and silence each channel you do not want them on and save registration.

All the best
john

[Lee Batchelor]

I am a home player, it is frustrating, the lack of controllability of the Pad buttons that is. Whether or not you play in gigs this is a must have, I think.

Good to know. Murat. Thanks for the comment .

[Lee Batchelor]

You know you can stop each multipad individually, by pressing stop and the button(s) simultaneously?

Yes, I know that Bachus. It's still too cumbersome when trying to maintain two hands on the music portion of the show. Why can't we have a simple On/Off push button for each multipad? No, the developers had to make it complicated. They forget the purpose of the Genos - to make music, not to see how proficient (or not) the player is at using a computer.

As I've said in dozens of forums and I will maintain this opinion until I'm gone from the planet. Developers and engineers are very smart people. What they lack is a knowledge of human factors. That is, what makes a device easy to use? Just like doctors who know a lot about the human body, drugs, and diseases. What they lack is a basic understanding of nutrition. See the parody here?

[Bachus]

Yes, I know that Bachus. It's still too cumbersome when trying to maintain two hands on the music portion of the show. Why can't we have a simple On/Off push button for each multipad? No, the developers had to make it complicated. They forget the purpose of the Genos - to make music, not to see how proficient (or not) the player is at using a computer.

As I've said in dozens of forums and I will maintain this opinion until I'm gone from the planet. Developers and engineers are very smart people. What they lack is a knowledge of human factors. That is, what makes a device easy to use? Just like doctors who know a lot about the human body, drugs, and diseases. What they lack is a basic understanding of nutrition. See the parody here?

The problem is that yamaha treats audio and midi multipads the same way..  for audio multipads, its a good thing that pushing twice retriggers the audio..

If they want to make it right, they should finally start treating midi and audiopads differently..why can’t i assigne dsp effects to multi pads? , the guitar ones are almost begging for that..

[Lee Batchelor]

Good points, Bachus. The BIG question is, how do we convince Yamaha to use more of the suggestions on this site? I know they are very good to monitor this site in background and implement some of our ideas, but it would be nice if they would appoint one staff member from the development team to join the forum and just talk to us. Perhaps I'm living in a dream world, but I made good money in my own business for 25 years. One weapon I had at my disposal: I listened to my customers and employees. I didn't claim to have all the answers. By default, they did! Yamaha is no different. They're just on a much larger scale than I was.

[Toril S]

I chime in and say amen to the pad suggestions, only I want this on PSRs too!

[Murat]

As I said Korg pa3x had the same issue but it was solved after an update, hence my comment / suggestion. It should be possible to simply press a Pad button to turn it on and off. If you are a competent player you will know that it is not possible or even advisable to just press the stop button and press the PADs you want simultaneously. For example, if you are playing with PAD1 and PAD3 on and you want to stop PAD1 and turn on PAD4 and turn on PAD2 leaving PAD3 playing, without having a break though. The only way is to be able to turn on/off PADs 'individually' unless you are at a level of playing songs like "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" 

[Murat]

One more thing about the PADs. It should remember the chord played after the style has been stopped. For example, you might be playing a song with a particular style and a PAD; then you might want to stop the style and then start the PAD to play something alongside the PAD playing in the background BUT as soon as you stop the style the PAD reverts back to a major chord (never checked what it is - probably C Major) making it impossible to play along it. I am aware you can apply a chord on the left hand side to initiate a chord however the PAD should remember the last chord played. So, one more thing for the next update.

[EileenL]

We have not had this on previous keyboards and no one has ever complained so I can't see this. You always need to play a left hand chord for a Multi Pad to follow. Surely that is easy enough to do with out asking for updates that are not necessary.

[Murat]

Why should it be the same as a previous keyboard? One might think this is not necassary and one might think it is; all depends on the way you play. I think my comment was not read properly.

[whataguy]

Of all the complaints about this or that on the Genos when is someone going to post a comment on how great it is that we have this or that to choose from on the Genos. Personally I am approaching utilizing approximately 10-11% of what is available to me. Back in the day when I used to sell Yamaha pianos and organs (D-80 still has to be the best ever) my boss was a woman that would always say "you'd complain if you were being hung with a brand new rope". Face it folks, we've got the best at our fingertips and if that ain't good enough maybe you should play a zither. Don in MI 

[Murat]

We must aim for progress and aim for better. If we didn't, we would all be playing the zither now. 

[Wim NL]

We have not had this on previous keyboards and no one has ever complained so I can't see this. You always need to play a left hand chord for a Multi Pad to follow. Surely that is easy enough to do with out asking for updates that are not necessary.

With the Tyros the styles and i suppose also the Multi pad are follow by the chords from the step record midi song.

Now it does not any more.

[Bachus]

Of all the complaints about this or that on the Genos when is someone going to post a comment on how great it is that we have this or that to choose from on the Genos. Personally I am approaching utilizing approximately 10-11% of what is available to me. Back in the day when I used to sell Yamaha pianos and organs (D-80 still has to be the best ever) my boss was a woman that would always say "you'd complain if you were being hung with a brand new rope". Face it folks, we've got the best at our fingertips and if that ain't good enough maybe you should play a zither. Don in MI 

Since there is no better arranger keyboard on the planet, does not mean its perfect... however, if you look ar arranger progress in the last 30 years, its safe to assume, 99% of the complaints are minor things...   

The fact that human nature dictates most of us allways want more and better however seems the reason for our Western society progressing slowly but constantly... sadly in the end, i think this will also be the end of the world as we know it..

I think its possible to discuss these things, and still enjoy every minute with the Genos.
As soon as you can accept the fact that there will never be huge changes to Genos..
Everything after that is a win..


Personally, i been in the middle of things..
Modx having all the major features i miss in the Genos..
And Genos having all the features incan not live witouth when just playing the modx..
So i ended up with both of them..

Jumping between brands has learned me a few things anout Yamaha
- yamaha instruments have the least bugs of all arrangers..
- yamaha support when having real problems is top knotch..
- yamaha sounds are more natural then the competition
- yamaha’s community, is much more helpfull then other brands..
- yamaha’s are easier to operate then the competition..

But also:
- yamaha never produce an all-in-one instrument because people like me buy two now..
- yamaha does what it thinks is important, and not what we think is important..

So discuss these wishes, but allready realise what you allready have...

I could post another long list of things Yamaha sh(c)ould add to Genos..
But thats been discussed before, and discussing again leads nowhere..But i still support my long list..
The reason behind this is the fact that for many people criticisme on the Genos somehow feels as a personal attack. Well, i have been there and its not worth it.

So, now i have typed so long, i forgot what point i was making in the first place...
So i leave it at this..

[ugawoga]

Hi
Has anyone contacted Yamaha about when or if any more updates will be released??
all the best
john

[Bachus]

Hi
Has anyone contacted Yamaha about when or if any more updates will be released??
all the best
john

I asked Peter Baartmans at a demo late December
He said it was comming but could not give a date

Whne did the 1.30 get released?
My best bet is still 6 months after the last one..
But i guess they might be off that track..

[ugawoga]

Hi
1.30 was released      2018-04-11
Over nine months ago.

All the best
John

[EileenL]

Hi Bachus,
  I don't think anything is perfect but Genos is a very fine keyboard and I am sure most of us will have done our homework and knew what we were getting. At the beginning some functions were not working correctly and many of them have been put right. There are still a few that can be improved upon and I am sure in time they will be. As everyone here probably knows I have played gigs and also played for local shows but now at the age of nearly 83 have retired from these and am purely a home player and find Genos gives me all I want and I am able to do all the editing I require on the keyboard so Am one Happy Bunny.

[StuartR]

Hi
1.30 was released      2018-04-11
Over nine months ago.

All the best
John

I would have expected Yamaha to announce any additional features to Genos during winter NAMM. That didn't happen so I'm now thinking any future updates may just be bug fixes as was the case with the Tyros family. I hope I'm proven wrong of course but I don't know why it would take this long to add features or improvements (like real time control behavior for example).

[Toril S]

That will be in Genos2😀

[Bachus]

I would have expected Yamaha to announce any additional features to Genos during winter NAMM. That didn't happen so I'm now thinking any future updates may just be bug fixes as was the case with the Tyros family. I hope I'm proven wrong of course but I don't know why it would take this long to add features or improvements (like real time control behavior for example).

Namm is not the place to do anything arranger related..
It will simply not get noted on Namm..

If there is a place where it could happen then its Musikmesse..

Altough i have come to the conclsuion that its often wiser for things like this to be their own event..
Because in such case, they don't have to share attention with others..

[fabpianista]

If we look for patterns, I am expecting updates until the end of the next year (12/2020). And yes, we will probably get an update soon.

Hopefully we will have audio over USB? Can't wait! 

[StuartR]

If we look for patterns, I am expecting updates until the end of the next year (12/2020). And yes, we will probably get an update soon.

Hopefully we will have audio over USB? Can't wait! 

Is this information personal opinion or do you have a reliable first- hand source?

[Bachus]

If we look for patterns, I am expecting updates until the end of the next year (12/2020). And yes, we will probably get an update soon.

Hopefully we will have audio over USB? Can't wait! 

I highly doubt if audio over USB is an option for Genos.
The hardware is not quite the same as the Montage, and there seems to be a different type of bus between the USB port and the processing hardware.

PJ might have an answer on this, he knows everything there is to know about the hardware differences between montage and Genos.

Currently the Audio in is also not routed trough the sound engine..
While on MODX/Montage you can route both audio ions trough the master effect and EQ section

For me being able to route the analogue audio in comming from MODX trough the master EQ and compressor of the Genos would be a nice thing.. since the MODX has master EQ and dsp that are set/performance, asuming an external mixer for the mastering with the rest of the band.

[pjd]

PJ might have an answer on this, …

Thanks, Bachus.

Without getting too nerdy, the Montage is deliberately designed to move and process audio. Montage has five flexible, internal digital audio paths and a processor (SSP2) dedicated to USB audio. The SSP2 implements the USB to HOST port and the host CPU never handles high audio bandwidth. This is like having a Steinberg UR44 built into the Montage (minus the preamps and extra analog inputs).

The Genos host CPU implements the USB to HOST port, so all USB audio would need to go through the main CPU (ARM architecture). The host CPU can send digital audio to the Master SWP70 tone generator where the audio enters the mainstream processing. Incoming USB audio would need to travel this path.

The AUXIN and MIC-IN are sent to the Master SWP70 tone generator, not the host CPU. There is a single stereo digital audio (I2S format) path from the Master SWP70 to the host CPU. Outgoing audio would need to travel this path.

So, at best, it might be possible to implement 2 channels of USB audio in and out -- kind of like the latest PSRs. The new Sonogenic, for example, can play and record USB or Bluetooth audio. Yamaha will definitely want to add this capability to either Genos 1.x or 2.0.

I think it's do-able, but Genos is not in the same class as Montage when it comes to audio handling.

Hope this helps (and may be TMI for some) -- pj

[fabpianista]

Is this information personal opinion or do you have a reliable first- hand source?

Hi Stuart,

It was just a supposition, after reviewing timelines for other recent keyboards from Yamaha. I hope it makes sense.

[StuartR]

Hi Stuart,

It was just a supposition, after reviewing timelines for other recent keyboards from Yamaha. I hope it makes sense.

Yeah, that's true for most, if not all of the comments made here about future update timelines. I don't really understand why this would be such a closely held secret by Yamaha.

[beykock]

Hi Guys,

Very interesting questions and answers.

IMHO Yamaha's updates are mostly made to " repair " bugs but not to add new features ...
Yamaha's updates are not called upgrades, I guess.

Plse keep in mind an arranger keyboard is absolutely not a synth.
In the past I had both : an arranger and a synth.

Nowadays a DAW helps me a lot and one Yamaha arranger
( a T5 ) is more than enough for me to do the work I enjoy to do in my cave, being " a home player ".

Yamaha's arranger keyboards have always been " plug-and-play " electronic keyboards.

Hopefully their policy will never change to avoid an arranger keyboard will become a more " complicated " instrument like a synth, one of the keyboards professionals like, I guess.

Keep it simple and improve the sound, memory etc. but please ... do not shoot a winning horse.😒

We are lucky Yamaha are manufacturing synths too for those who want/need typical additional synth features.

A DAW like Cubase e.g. might also be an extra tool if one wants more ( editing etc. ).

Who am I to tell you what is right or wrong.
I only want to share my personal opinion.
 
Take care,🌹

Babette

 

[Antonio]

Many of us would be disappointed if there are no further updates.

Cheers,
Fred

I would say angry! never been able to wait for such an update for so long, it seems that only one person works on the project.
But if this person goes to a better life? Ha ha

[ugawoga]

I do not know what all the fuss is about. If you want more go Cubase and VST instruments . Sky is the limit then.

The Genos is 100% as It is to me, no problems only pilot era sometimes
I am finding the more you go Into the Genos the easier It gets. Split the keyboard add registrations and a couple of foot pedals then you can achieve bucket loads and get used to the bend stick. You are a one man band like Don Partridge --Rosie oh Rosie'  or slap me Rosie
Yamaha could sort out the wave program.
Sampletank 4 has just been released and it is a whopper of a program!! 200 gig of content. That'll keep you quiet for a while.
Just keep banging the keys it's fun.


All the best
John

[Bachus]

Thanks, Bachus.

Without getting too nerdy, the Montage is deliberately designed to move and process audio. Montage has five flexible, internal digital audio paths and a processor (SSP2) dedicated to USB audio. The SSP2 implements the USB to HOST port and the host CPU never handles high audio bandwidth. This is like having a Steinberg UR44 built into the Montage (minus the preamps and extra analog inputs).

The Genos host CPU implements the USB to HOST port, so all USB audio would need to go through the main CPU (ARM architecture). The host CPU can send digital audio to the Master SWP70 tone generator where the audio enters the mainstream processing. Incoming USB audio would need to travel this path.

The AUXIN and MIC-IN are sent to the Master SWP70 tone generator, not the host CPU. There is a single stereo digital audio (I2S format) path from the Master SWP70 to the host CPU. Outgoing audio would need to travel this path.

So, at best, it might be possible to implement 2 channels of USB audio in and out -- kind of like the latest PSRs. The new Sonogenic, for example, can play and record USB or Bluetooth audio. Yamaha will definitely want to add this capability to either Genos 1.x or 2.0.

I think it's do-able, but Genos is not in the same class as Montage when it comes to audio handling.

Hope this helps (and may be TMI for some) -- pj

Thanks PJ, for explaining..
Makes it hard to believe Yamaha will add Audio over USB to the genos.

Or even audio processing of the analogue input. It would be great to be able to apply the Genos EQ and compr settings to an external audio source. It would benefit my MODX quite a lot, since there is no real Master EQ in the sense of whats there in the Genos. Its/performance master settings.  Being able to route the MODX sound trough the Genos Master DSP, would make a huge difference for integrating both instruments

[pjd]

Hi Bachus --

I'm glad that info was helpful.

The only real alternative (and I'm sure you thought of it) is to route the Genos into the MODX and let the MODX system effects do the final EQ and compression. The Montage/MODX Parallel Compressor is the same algorithm as the Genos Master Compressor. Unfortunately, the Montage/MODX master EQ is 5 bands, not 8. That's one place where the Genos exceeds the Montage spec.

Add that to the list of Montage enhancements in the next version. 

All the best -- pj

[Bachus]

Hi Bachus --

I'm glad that info was helpful.

The only real alternative (and I'm sure you thought of it) is to route the Genos into the MODX and let the MODX system effects do the final EQ and compression. The Montage/MODX Parallel Compressor is the same algorithm as the Genos Master Compressor. Unfortunately, the Montage/MODX master EQ is 5 bands, not 8. That's one place where the Genos exceeds the Montage spec.

Add that to the list of Montage enhancements in the next version. 

All the best -- pj

I tried that one first

But the MAster section of the MODX is not really a master section in the traditional way of arrangers. Master EQ and COmpression are part of the performance and not global settings..  So when connected to the MODX, the Genos audio jumps all over the place in vollume.  And edditing all thousands of performances seperately is not something i want to do..

There offcourse is a reason behind the differences in structure..  Genos is the final mixer of its own accomapniment band. MODX expects a Mixer for its connection to the rest of the band, which is used for mastering the mix. But all of this makes the MODX unsuited when just selectingn presets to combine them with the Genos accompaniments.

[Christophermoment]

To Bachus; Go to Utility- Effect Switch. There you can turn Global A/D on or off.


Christopher.

[Paolo82]

when is the new update for genos?