Author Topic: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?  (Read 2384 times)

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Offline gerard

Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« on: January 05, 2019, 07:18:55 PM »
I have an iPad.
I have used it with Songbook+ and connected wireless with my Genos.
I am now using a Surface Pro running Mobilesheets Pro because I needed a larger screen.
It made me think, if I can connect my iPad with my Genos running wireless, maybe there is an app that will let me select voices on the Genos.
I saw how Vconsole can do that which got me to think of this.
But, I do not have about $550 for Vconsole just to select voices, and hope that there might be an iPad app that will do it.

Gerard
 

Offline Pino

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2019, 11:18:49 PM »
Take a look at ‘One Man Band’ from Jos Maas

Pino
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 12:03:38 AM by Pino »
S910 - S950 - S975 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2019, 03:11:36 AM »
Pino,

Thanks for the info but, I do not think you can connect using wireless and I do not think you can select voices from Genos.

Gerard
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2019, 04:08:56 PM »
I have an iPad.
I have used it with Songbook+ and connected wireless with my Genos.
I am now using a Surface Pro running Mobilesheets Pro because I needed a larger screen.
It made me think, if I can connect my iPad with my Genos running wireless, maybe there is an app that will let me select voices on the Genos.
I saw how Vconsole can do that which got me to think of this.
But, I do not have about $550 for Vconsole just to select voices, and hope that there might be an iPad app that will do it.

Gerard

There are apps that can do just that for you...
But all way less fluent and take much more work to get working then v-console

Have a look at audiobus3 with added midiflow
Or even better.. the brand new “keystage” and “camelot pro” apps
They allow you to set up your ipad to do exactly what v-console does
But require some time..


If you are looking for the easiest setup..
Go for keystage..
Make a standard midi routing..
And then in the genos use empty songs with just sounds set for the voices

Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2019, 04:48:00 PM »
Bachus,

Thank you very much.
I will check those out.
What I want to do is on the fly, select some voices other than the ones I have in my registrations.
In Vconsole, there is a palette, so to speak of favorite voices, that you can quickly change to.

Gerard
 

Offline zionip

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2019, 05:43:24 PM »
What I want to do is on the fly, select some voices other than the ones I have in my registrations.
In Vconsole, there is a palette, so to speak of favorite voices, that you can quickly change to.

Hi Gerard,

V-Console for Genos is currently the only available app (on Windows, not iOS) for what you described.  You will need another Windows 10 tablet / touchscreen laptop to run V-Console since you are using your Surface Pro for MobileSheets Pro. 

I use iPad Pro 12.9 with Songbook+ for PDF music score viewing, Surface Pro 6 for V-Console, an old iPad 3 running 'Kronos Remote' app to control programs on Kronos 2 88-key (my lower keyboard for V-Console) when I want to mix sounds from Kronos with Genos.

£399 (US$508) is quite expensive for controlling Genos only.  When you use this software for Genos as the upper keyboard, with the lower keyboard of your choice, and a MIDI bass pedal as a Genos sound based home organ, then the price is perceived as more reasonable.

Paul
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2019, 05:59:29 PM »
Bachus,

Thank you very much.
I will check those out.
What I want to do is on the fly, select some voices other than the ones I have in my registrations.
In Vconsole, there is a palette, so to speak of favorite voices, that you can quickly change to.

Gerard

If i get my Genos Later this month, i will be sure to make a tutorial for this...
If it works the way it is supposed to work..

Start with this video..
https://youtu.be/AiXAlfMGnro
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 
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Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2019, 02:36:47 AM »
If i get my Genos Later this month, i will be sure to make a tutorial for this...
If it works the way it is supposed to work..

Start with this video..
https://youtu.be/AiXAlfMGnro

Well, that looks pretty cool! And only $20US! :)
Check Out My YouTube Channel! https://goo.gl/edbXFS
 

Offline zionip

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2019, 05:08:11 AM »
I watched the KeyStage tutorial videos and found that this $20 master controller application is capable of achieving what Gerard wants, with quite some efforts though.  This app, together with another iOS app "MIDIFlow", can address multiple iOS software synth apps simultaneously, besides hardware arranger like Genos.  KeyStage supports USB, MIDI, and Bluetooth connections.  The developer also provides a demo version called "KeyStage Lite" with limitations for you to try before buying the full version.

KeyStage Tutorial 1: Basics (Bachus already posted this)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiXAlfMGnro

KeyStage Tutorial 2: Instrument Presets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMK0A3kuC9w

Cubase patch for Genos (for creation of patches for Genos as an instrument in KeyStage, saves a lot of time)
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/7/1222927/Cubase_Patch_for_Genos.zip

You can unzip the Cubase_Patch_for_Genos.zip and store the "Yamaha Genos.txt" file at DropBox since KeyStage can open files from DropBox when creating a new instrument.  By the way, I found that I had to convert the "Yamaha Genos.txt" file from UNIX/Linux text format to Windows text format (extra line break per line) before KeyStage accepts it as valid Cubase patch script file and created a new instrument called "Yamaha Genos".  I attached the converted "Yamaha Genos.txt" file in this post for your convenience.

I was able to export the following Cubase patch script file for Roland Integra 7 to KeyStage to create an instrument "Roland Integra 7 Full":
https://github.com/odashi/integra7-cubase/blob/master/roland-integra-7-full.txt

KeyStage Tutorial 3: AUM Integration and Custom Preset (and a song walkthrough)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS8RPGWmWh4

Since KeyStage can store effects / parameters of its instruments, this app could be a solution of storing multiple DSPs for Genos.  Currently I have not tested this yet, but it looks promising.

Thanks,
Paul

« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 03:15:54 PM by zionip »
 
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Offline Bachus

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2019, 05:54:05 AM »
I watched the KeyStage tutorial videos and found that this $20 master controller application is capable of achieving what Gerard wants, with quite some efforts though.  This app, together with another iOS app "MIDIFlow", can address multiple iOS software synth apps simultaneously, besides hardware arranger like Genos.  KeyStage supports USB, MIDI, and Bluetooth connections.  The developer also provides a demo version called "KeyStage Lite" with limitations for you to try before buying the full version.

KeyStage Tutorial 1: Basics (Bachus already posted this)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiXAlfMGnro

KeyStage Tutorial 2: Instrument Presets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMK0A3kuC9w

Cubase patch for Genos (for creation of patches for Genos as an instrument in KeyStage, saves a lot of time)
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/7/1222927/Cubase_Patch_for_Genos.zip

You can unzip the Cubase_Patch_for_Genos.zip and store the "Yamaha Genos.txt" file at DropBox since KeyStage can open files from DropBox when creating a new instrument.

KeyStage Tutorial 3: AUM Integration and Custom Preset (and a song walkthrough)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS8RPGWmWh4

Since KeyStage can store effects / parameters of its instruments, this app could be a solution of storing multiple DSPs for Genos.  Currently I have not tested this yet, but it looks promising.

Thanks,
Paul

thank you Paul for confirming what i said..
i will be testing this out myself soon..

with some luck i will have the Genos later this week
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline zionip

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2019, 07:05:09 AM »
Hi Bachus,

Good luck in your purchase of Genos.  For the damaged Genos (dropped on stage) that you mentioned in Synthzone, I would recommend you not buying it because 25% discount is not enough to offset the depreciated value, with potential problems in the future.

Thanks,
Paul
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2019, 02:34:35 PM »
Paul,

Thanks for the text file.
I lost my Camera connection adapter so I am buying another.
It will be a week before I can try it.
I have a Roland UM-ONE usb to MIDI adapter and hope this works.
My goal is to fill the page in KeyStage with "PARTS", each one calling up a different voice in Genos.
And I think I can rename "PARTS" to be the name of the voice.

Gerard
 

Offline zionip

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2019, 03:28:07 PM »
Hi Gerard,

You do not need to use the Roland UM-ONE USB-to-MIDI adapter in your case.

Once you get your Apple camera connection kit (buy the USB3.0 one with a USB port and lightning port for charging while connected), your iPad should be connected to a USB 2.0/3.0 hub, and your Genos is also connected to the USB hub through its To-Host USB port at its back with a USB printer cable.  Then the iPad and Genos talk through USB, so there is no need for USB-to-MIDI adapter.

Another more convenient choice is to plug a Yamaha MD-BT01 bluetooth wireless MIDI adapter to Genos MIDI A in and out ports to allow iPad MIDI connection through bluetooth.  Then you do not even need the Apple camera connection kit, USB hub, and all the USB cables.

Thanks,
Paul

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2019, 06:24:29 PM »
Hi Paul,

I am using the port on my Genos for Mobilesheets Pro and I already have the Roland UM-ONE.
That is why I am getting the Camera connection kit.

Regards,
Gerard
 

Offline jimlaing

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2019, 06:39:05 PM »
Hi - one method to somewhat indirectly do this, is using wireless MIDI (readily available) and using an app (unrealBook in my case) to call up (select) Registrations on the Genos.  All done wirelessly if you have the wireless MIDI gadget (Yamaha makes one, there is also the mi.1 connect
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-MIDI-Interface-mi-1-Rev-3/dp/B01D61QK6W

You can have the unrealBook app, when a file or song (PDF) is selected, send any MIDI command; for me, I send the commands to the Genos (Tyros in past) which causes Genos to automatically load whatever Registration you want.  You could send nearly any MIDI command you need or want.

I believe Songbook and other apps can do this too ...

Separately, you can select individual Voices too, using any MIDI app that can send MSB/LSB/PC commands (or a hardware device such as a MIDI Controller that can sent MSB/LSB/PC.  Keep in mind that when you use MSB/LSB/PC to select a Voice, you do NOT get the custom settings for that voice (Effects etc.), just the voice. (I know as I've done this using an M-Audio Code49 MIDI controller).

Jim
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Offline zionip

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2019, 07:19:48 PM »
Hi Paul,

I am using the port on my Genos for Mobilesheets Pro and I already have the Roland UM-ONE.
That is why I am getting the Camera connection kit.

Regards,
Gerard

Gerard,

How do you use your Roland UM-ONE to connect Genos to your iPad?

Roland UM-ONE is supposed to connect to your PC / Mac through USB port to give your PC / Mac one MIDI in and one MIDI out.  I also own a Roland UM-ONE mark 2 (used with V-Console) and am sure it is supported on PC and Mac, but not iOS.

Paul
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2019, 07:53:39 PM »
Paul,

I didn't know the Roland doesn't connect with iPad.
I guess I will have to get the Yamaha Bluetooth MD BT-01.

Gerard
 

Offline zionip

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2019, 08:37:36 PM »
Gerard,

Your choice of getting the Yamaha MD BT-01 bluetooth wireless MIDI adapter is the most efficient resolution for your current and future Genos setup.

I actually used Yamaha MD BT-01 on almost all of my MIDI keyboards / modules such as Kronos 2, and Roland Integra-7 with success, and some quirks of data synchronization.

The most reliable Genos to iPad connection is through USB via the Apple camera connection kit though.  I had to use this method to synchronize Kronos 2 and the Kronos Remote app on iPad Pro because data synchronization does not work via bluetooth MIDI connection.

Paul
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 09:01:47 PM by zionip »
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2019, 10:59:27 PM »
Paul,

I am ordering the MD BT-01.
When I set it up to work with KeyStage, do i Set the Genos to RECEIVE and TRANSMIT on channel 1 for RIGHT 1?
Then in Key Stage I just send the PC, MSB, LSB?

Gerard
 

Offline whataguy

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2019, 02:37:08 AM »
HI - Sorry for being a bit off topic but you guys seem to be the smartest around and I'm hoping y'all can tell me if anything is in the works for using Genos with the android platform. Thank you in advance . . . Don in MI

Offline Al Ram

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2019, 03:09:36 AM »
Hi - one method to somewhat indirectly do this, is using wireless MIDI (readily available) and using an app (unrealBook in my case) to call up (select) Registrations on the Genos.  All done wirelessly if you have the wireless MIDI gadget (Yamaha makes one, there is also the mi.1 connect
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-MIDI-Interface-mi-1-Rev-3/dp/B01D61QK6W

You can have the unrealBook app, when a file or song (PDF) is selected, send any MIDI command; for me, I send the commands to the Genos (Tyros in past) which causes Genos to automatically load whatever Registration you want.  You could send nearly any MIDI command you need or want.

I believe Songbook and other apps can do this too ...

Separately, you can select individual Voices too, using any MIDI app that can send MSB/LSB/PC commands (or a hardware device such as a MIDI Controller that can sent MSB/LSB/PC.  Keep in mind that when you use MSB/LSB/PC to select a Voice, you do NOT get the custom settings for that voice (Effects etc.), just the voice. (I know as I've done this using an M-Audio Code49 MIDI controller).

Jim


I can confirm that the app SongBook+ can do what is described above (ie. select a PDF on the iPad and automatically bring up the corresponding Genos registration, it works the other way around too).

One additional note . . . both wireless midi devices Yamaha MD BT01 and mi.1 work perfect with Genos.  I initially had the Yamaha MD BT01 but recently changed to the quicco mi.1 because of size. 

When packing the Genos in the travelling bag, the quicco mi.1 does not occupy additional space, whereas the Yamaha being larger in size did not fit in the bag as well.  Of course, you do not have to keep it in the Genos all the time but i noticed that keeping it in Genos is more efficient for me.

If i had to select again, i would go for the quicco mi.1

thanks

« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 03:11:44 AM by Al Ram »
AL
San Diego/Tijuana
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2019, 03:01:26 PM »
I am going to buy the KeyStage app.
I think RIGHT 1,2,3 are all on different midi channels.
Does anyone know what midi channels they are?
I will mainly use the app for only RIGHT 1.

Gerard
 

Offline jimlaing

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2019, 03:56:14 PM »
If you go to Menus, then select the Midi menu page, then look at the MIDI send and receive sub-pages, the Genos will show you which MIDI channels are currently in use for each part (such as Right 1, Left, bass, etc.).  You can modify them if needed, or use the info when you set up KeyStage. . .

Jim
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2019, 05:48:28 PM »
Jim,

Thanks. I will probably set my RIGHT 1 to be Channel 1 on RECEIVE.
I might even toy around with having setups for RIGHT 2 and RIGHT 3, and set those channels to 2 and 3.
From the way the page looks in Keystage, I can have about 50 voices or so easily accessible by just pressing the correct button.
When I get everything done, I will take pictures to show those that might be interested.

Gerard
 

Offline jimlaing

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2019, 07:36:46 PM »
Hi - as a test, when you do this, try having the iPad "select" one of the distorted electric guitars.   See if the voice, when played, has the distortion on it. . . that will test what I was talking about in my note ... I'll be curious how it goes!

Jim
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Offline pjd

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2019, 09:12:20 PM »
Does anyone know what midi channels they are?

Hi Gerard --

I thought there was an easy answer to your question until I looked at Yamaha's default MIDI port and channel assignments. They're asymmetric with respect to ports!

    Receive              Transmit
    -------------------  -------------------
    Port1 Ch1  Song      Right1   Port1 Ch1
    Port1 Ch2  Song      Right2   Port1 Ch2
    Port1 Ch3  Song      Right3   Port1 Ch3
    Port1 Ch4  Song      Left     Port1 Ch4
    Port1 Ch5  Song

    Port2 Ch1  Keyboard  Song Ch1 Port2 Ch1
    Port2 Ch2  Right1    Song Ch2 Port2 Ch2
    Port2 Ch3  Right2    Song Ch3 Port2 Ch3
    Port2 Ch4  Right3    Song Ch4 Port2 Ch4
    Port2 Ch5  Left      Song Ch5 Port2 Ch5

Screen shots are attached.

This asymmetric assignment of ports gives me a headache. Thank goodness for the MIDI monitor at the bottom of the screen.

If I were using the MD-BT01 (or even two 5-pin MIDI cables), I'd want all communications to be symmetric: on the same Port and on the same corresponding channels.

The KeyStage app looks very promising and I would like to use it myself. I downloaded the free version and further experiments are in order...

That "Keyboard" option is interesting. MIDI arriving on Port2 Ch1 is sent to all of RIGHT1, RIGHT2, RIGHT3, LEFT. You can turn the layers on and off using front panel part enable switches. It's possible to trigger all Genos part on a single MIDI channel. However, with Yamaha's default assignment, the channel numbers for corresponding parts don't match up directly.

Hope this helps -- pj
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 09:15:50 PM by pjd »
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2019, 10:07:01 PM »
PJ,

You can change RECEIVE PORT 1 CH1 from SONG to RIGHT 1.
The PC, MSB, LSB will be sent from Keystage.
And I do not think I have to worry about TRANSMIT settings as I only want to receive voice changes from KeyStage.

Gerard
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 10:11:08 PM by gerard »
 

Offline pjd

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2019, 10:10:04 PM »
I just tried the free version of KeyStage using the default Genos MIDI channel settings.

The way the KeyStage user interface works, it may not be necessary to mess too much with the Genos MIDI channel settings. I configured KeyStage to send to Port2 Channel 2 and could send program change messages to RIGHT1. It's a little painful in the lite (free) version because one sends Bank Select MSB, LSB and Program Change numbers instead of a nice preset name.

Instead of the MD-BT01, I used an iRig 5-pin interface from iPad, plugging the MIDI IN/OUTs to the MIDI B jacks.

BTW, in this experiment, sending program change messages to Port2 Channel 1 -- the "keyboard" option -- Genos ignored program change. That's good because all parts would be set to the same instrument if it truly was treated as a single channel.

All in all, if someone has any interest, KeyStage Lite is a free download from the App Store. A cheap way to experiment and try before buy.

Hope this helps out -- pj

 

Offline pjd

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2019, 10:13:00 PM »
Hi Gerard --

Our postings crossed.  :)

Yep, those settings are tweakable. I had to mess with them when I tried getting Genos and MODX to talk. That was fun  :( because Yamaha did some weird stuff on MODX...

All in all, I think Key Stage should go smoothly for ya.

Take care -- pj
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2019, 10:15:34 PM »
pj,

Thank you for trying it out.
I think it looks like you can fill the middle section of KeyStage with a lot of voices.
That would be approximately 50 voices instantly on tap.
And It is on sale now in Apple store for $19.99 for those who want to buy it.

Gerard
 
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Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2019, 07:38:19 PM »
update.

Got my MD BT-01 today and it will not pair with my iPad.
IT will connect to my phone but the iPad can not find it.
I was on the phone with Apple for 40 minutes and they will have to call me back on Tuesday with a solution, I hope.
I have Keystage installed on the iPad and can not use it yet.
When I do get it working, I will send pics of what I am doing.

Gerard
 

Offline zionip

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2019, 03:46:54 AM »
Gerard,

The solution is very simple - install free iOS app BLE-MIDI by Korg.  Connect the Yamaha MD BT-01 bluetooth wireless MIDI adapter from within the iOS app BLE-MIDI because iOS Settings app most of the time cannot 'see' the MD BT-01, but BLE-MIDI app can always see it.

Good luck,
Paul
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 03:48:22 AM by zionip »
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2019, 09:16:29 AM »
Paul,

Thanks again for your help.
That fixed it and now is working.
A problem I am having is that any voice I have chosen in Keystage, it does replace the voice I had on RIGHT 1 but, it keeps the DSP of the voice I replaced.
When I select a voice from Genos, it loads the effects and DSP's for that voice.
And when I select a voice from Keystage, it only loads the raw voice.
An example, if I select an organ voice on Genos that has the ROTARY effect, and then select Grand Piano from Keystage, the ROTARY effect is still there.
I hope I explained that right.

Gerard
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 09:45:58 AM by gerard »
 

Offline zionip

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2019, 12:58:45 PM »
Hi Gerard,

You can leave Ali Gokturk, the developer of KeyStage, a Facebook message to see if he can help you on your KeyStage related questions:
https://www.facebook.com/agokturk80/

Thanks,
Paul
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2019, 01:37:47 PM »
Hi Gerard,

You can leave Ali Gokturk, the developer of KeyStage, a Facebook message to see if he can help you on your KeyStage related questions:
https://www.facebook.com/agokturk80/

Thanks,
Paul

Paul have found a way to select sections based on program changed messages send from he Genos?
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2019, 02:13:47 PM »
Paul,

Thanks, I left him a message.

The PC, MSB, LSB that is sent to Genos selects the raw voice so to speak and not the PRESET voice.
After selecting a voice in Keystage, Genos shows the voice highlighted in the preset but I have to press the preset to get the effects and DSP's loaded.
I do not know if there is a way to call up the preset voice.

Gerard
 

Offline jimlaing

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2019, 03:27:53 PM »
I had written about this a while back too; I also had wanted the full preset voice set up when I "chose" it via an external keyboard PC/MSB/LSB.  Just like you, I get the voice but not all the effects etc.  I could not find a way around it.  Way back I even contacted Yamaha; they just confirmed that indeed, selecting a voice via MIDI PC/MSB/LSB, it *only* selects the voice, and does not apply the preset effects/DSP settings for the voice ... wish there setting on Genos that said "When voice selected via MIDI, apply Preset settings: on or off"! 

This is a major issue to using external gear to control Genos . . .

Jim
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2019, 04:58:53 PM »
I had written about this a while back too; I also had wanted the full preset voice set up when I "chose" it via an external keyboard PC/MSB/LSB.  Just like you, I get the voice but not all the effects etc.  I could not find a way around it.  Way back I even contacted Yamaha; they just confirmed that indeed, selecting a voice via MIDI PC/MSB/LSB, it *only* selects the voice, and does not apply the preset effects/DSP settings for the voice ... wish there setting on Genos that said "When voice selected via MIDI, apply Preset settings: on or off"! 

This is a major issue to using external gear to control Genos . . .

Jim

The easiest work around is setting all the voices in an empty song in genos.. which atomatically sets the dsp..   and then save these song changes in a registry..     so you only send the midi notes and cc messages trough the app..

This way you can controll everything from the Genos and just use the keystage app as a router.. with the mixer, and the channel on/off screen the Genos is well suited for this...


The more i think about it, the less need i see to use keystage to send those program changes to Genos...

Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2019, 05:06:46 PM »

This is a major issue to using external gear to control Genos . . .

Jim

Hi Jim, I also came across the same issue when using a DAW and spent a long weekend looking into it. I found a really interesting article about the whole issue on the PSR Tutorial main site

https://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/SysEx.html

I never had a Tyros 5 but according to Andrey Gusev, it suffered the same issues ?

In the article , he has attached a spreadsheet with the sys ex messages that change the DSPs so most of the hard work is done for us . You still need to know a little about the Sys Message so you can tell it the channel you want to change it on..so its not a simple as CC or PC numbers.

Also interesting is he has made an INS file for cakewalk that will automatically send the Sys Ex messages for the insertion effects from a DAW. He charges a small fee but if you are a power user it might be worth looking into.

I get round the issue by referring to his spreadsheet and also understanding SYS Ex a bit better having read his article. I also use the sequencer as mentioned by Bachus but you need to know in advance the channel you want the Voice plus DSP to gbe on as the Sys Ex messages are channel dependant although the are transmitted on any channel.

Hope that helps although it certainly doesn’t solve our problem.
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2019, 05:21:07 PM »
It would be interesting to know, when you press a preset voice, what that button press actually is.
It calls up the voice and all the effects with one button press.
If we had access to what is in that button press, it would solve everything, I think.

Gerard
 

Offline pjd

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2019, 05:51:50 PM »
Crazy thought... I'm a looong way from my gear and other resources right now, so I can't check this out for a few days.

Is there a "double secret" Clavinova compatibility SysEx message to select panel voices? Yamaha never published a complete description of these messages, but there might be a message to do it.

I agree. It would be great to call up a voice via the VCE file that is lurking under its panel button. I spend a huge amount of time embedding the DSP programming into my MIDI song files.

-- pj

Clavinova compliance messages are the SysEx messages that start with F0 43 73 01 ...
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 05:56:53 PM by pjd »
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2019, 06:29:31 PM »
This makes me also wonder if vConsole is calling up the preset voice with effects and dsp's or not.
Anybody who is using vConsole, maybe they can let us know if it loads the right settings for the voices.

The only way I could use Keystage right now and I am not sure I want to do it is as follows:
I create one registration bank per song.
I use the 9 other registrations for voices.
So if my registration 7 is Piano, it has the effect for it which I think is damper resonance.
I could select that then in Keystage select say, cocktail grand or honky tonk grand and that works.
I found any organflute voice does not work as it does not have the stops set right.
If another registration for acoustic guitar is set, in Keystage I could select another acoustic guitar and will inherit the settings of my registration one.
Gee, do I really want to do this????

Gerard
 


Offline Darius

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2019, 11:43:13 PM »
Hello,
based on my observations (more on this below) : when you select a different voice by pressing the Touchscreen you do not only send a MIDI command to change the voice, but you also send SysEx data to change the effects associated to the voice. For this reason, just sending a Program Change (as in KeyStage) leaves the effects untouched, and you can end up with a piano sounding "distorted" if it comes after a rock guitar.

Not later than last Thursday I went to my valued local music shop with my Ipad under my arm. I connected the IPad per USB to Genos and I just looked at the different MIDI messages that are sent when I press buttons, move faders, touch the screen… The app which I have used is called "MIDI Wrench”. What I have seen is that many functions of the panel and touch screen can be initiated "from outside" by sending exactly the same MIDI commands to Genos.

To perform a voice change, we must send several MIDI commands (I saw on the Ipad between 6 and 12 lines, depending on the voice). Many MIDI controllers can only generate 1 MIDI command (ex: Program Change) as a result of 1 action (button pressed for example). Translators in Keystage fall into this category. So we would need an “interface” between Keystage and Genos. An app like MidiFire could generate many commands using a “StreamByter” module. Personally I would rather go for a standalone Bomebox because the associated software enables to capture MIDI data, which makes the programming much easier.

Whatever the choice for the translator, it would be possible to send the necessary bunch of MIDI commands... just to change correctly 1 "Voice" on Genos. A lot of work for sure, but it would be very “clean” as it would simply mirror what happens when we press a virtual button on the touchscreen.
I also looked at Style changes : when I pressed the touchscreen to select a different Style I saw a huge flow of MIDI data, more than 100 lines for a single style change... This amount of MIDI data was the combination of me pressing the button on the screen (let´s call it MIDI flow #1 = action) plus the first measure of the Style file being loaded by Genos (MIDI flow #2 = reaction). I did no look into details so I can´t tell how big MIDI flow #1 was.

As an alternative I find Bachus´s suggestion very helpful: all required changes (styles, voices…) could be saved into a song. The song saved into a registry. And the registry called by a MIDI command from the Ipad/computer.

Have a nice day,
Darius

PS: I have noticed that not all panel buttons send MIDI commands. For example, the voice select buttons “Right 1”, “Right 2” etc. do not show any MIDI activity when pressed or depressed. That worries me because I had wished that it would be possible to control these buttons using a MIDI controller. Same for selecting a voice category or changing pages (P1/P2/P3) on the screen. Interestingly the Yamaha Voice Guide (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd_n32tcwZ4) seems to interact with everything, so there must be a possibility…
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 08:49:53 AM by Darius »
Technics KN1200, Nord Electro 5D, IPad Pro... and someday a Genos?
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2019, 02:09:45 PM »
I was able to load voices that were not too dependent on Sysex messages for effects or DSP's.
Attached is a pic showing wht I have done so far.
If I have already selected say CFX Grand piano on the Genos and I select cocktail piano, or honky tonk from Keystage, it will already have the DAMPER RESONANCE dsp alredy loaded.
I have read the many, many posts so far, and that you for getting my brain going. lol
Next, I will pursue through Keystage, how to add the correct SYSEX messages to have the voice sound the same as if I selected it from the Genos.
Genos John mention this post:
https://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/SysEx.html
For the $15, I might get that to try and use his already written SYSEX messages.
I will keep you posted as to how I am progressing.

Gerard
 

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2019, 03:13:43 PM »
I will pursue through Keystage, how to add the correct SYSEX messages to have the voice sound the same as if I selected it from the Genos.

Gerard


Hi Gerard ..if Sys Ex was only so easy to work with I would pursue it too. However it would take me for ages to write, even if I was fully conversant with it. This photo shows the info required by the Genos to select the 60sRockHero guitar with its associated DSP



The first three lines are simple to understand ..the CC and PC data that select the raw patch

The First line of Sys Ex (red arrow) selects the Multi Fx Distortion Solo DSP, I have typed it out so you can clearly see it. I have put commas to separate the bytes for clarity. They are not part of the Sys Ex message

F0,43,10,4C,03,00,00,5F,20,F7

There are really only three bytes we need to consider the first 00 tells the Genos to put the effect on channel 1.
 If you want it on channel 2 then 00 would  now read 01 as shown below. Etc.

F0,43,10,4C,03,01,00,5F,20,F7

The two bytes that select the type of DSP are 5F and 20. These are in Hex format so converted to decimal they are 95 and 32. If you refer to the Genos Data sheet ..you will find that the MSB and LSB for Distortion effect Multi Fx Distortion Solo is 95 and 32. That is how to tie in the data sheet info with the Sys Ex message.

The rest of the Sys Ex messages set all the different “knobs” on that same effect. Therefore its too much work for me to write my own sys ex message every time I want to select a voice which relies of the DSP.

I have a few work rounds .. GM, GS and XG sounds dont use the DSPs so you can easily use them with only CC and PC messages.

There is a small program on the internet which selects the voices and the associated DSP. There is a free demo at this link

http://www.midiland.de/en/software_frameset.htm

Its called Midifile Optimiser X

I am using the free demo to set up the correct sounds in the Genos Mixer while Cubase sends the Midi tracks to play the song on Genos. The demo of midifile Optimiser does not save anything but once it sets up the Genos Mixer with the sounds and effects I want .. its easy enough to save to a registration ..or I can record the info in Cubase.
A screen shot of Midifile Optimiser and I highlighted the part that includes the default DSPs. If only Yamaha had put that tick box in Genos..we would not have this issue



So its worth downloading the demo to try before buying. Im sure there must be other such programs too.

Hope that helps a little more.
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2019, 04:08:04 PM »
Genos John,

In your post previous, you showed where you could get 15,000 sysex messages for TYROS 5 for $15.00
I think most of those will work on the Genos except for maybe some new voices.
I am trying to find out from the developer if I can send SYSEX messages from Keystage.

Gerard
 

Offline gerard

Re: Is there an app for iPad to select voices?
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2019, 05:06:13 PM »
UPDATE:
Currently KeyStage does not support sending sysex messages.
I texted the developer and he said he would be working on that in a future release.
In the meantime I have a workaround.
When I am playing a style or registration on the Genos, I can open the voice select for right 1.
Then when I make a change to the voice in KeyStage, the raw voice is loaded in Genos.
The voice select screen shows the raw voice loaded.
I then tap that voice on Genos and all the effects, dsp's, etc. are loaded.
It is an extra step but it will work until KeyStage supports sysex messages.

Gerard