Author Topic: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?  (Read 50127 times)

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S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« on: November 11, 2018, 09:36:10 PM »
I've owned an S670 for a week now. In this short time I already had many success experiences. The sounds are mostly great, the settings are deep enough (but not overcomplicated) and I like the feeling of the keybed. I even built my first own voices using the Expansion Manager ;D Actually, the S670 is a well-balanced product and it seems to be perfect for my needs.

However, I have massive difficulties recording sequences. My use case is so simple: I want to record four or eight bars of accompaniment, run it as an endless loop and then improvise to it.

I just can't do it, neither with Quick Recording, nor with the Song Creator. No matter how exactly I press the stop button, there is always a gap in the recording. Unfortunately, I can't use A/B-Repeat to fix the loop, because this function always inserts a one bar metronome count-in at the beginning (I googled about the "A/B issue", found a lot of frustrated posts about this topic (also in this forum), but no solution).

I've tried everything and I'm just so desperate that I'm thinking about returning the keyboard. I would appreciate your help, because the S670 is (apart from my problem) so great. It can't be that so a simple task isn't possible with this keyboard.
 

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2018, 06:02:30 AM »
Wow, what a comprehensive answer. Thank you very much, Roy.

I was afraid of all that. But it is as it is, even though I don't want to believe that my application is unusual for keyboards.

My hope was that I made a mistake in the operation. There is the Song Repeat function (e.g. Single) which repeats a song. If a song is only a few bars long, it should still work properly. But it doesn't. Either I don't get the end of the recording correctly (I really tried a lot and pressed the stop button in the exact timing) or the S670 needs a certain reaction time before it repeats the song. Maybe for technical reasons.

Then I have to bite the bullet and say goodbye to the S670 :(

Single finger chords and styles are a great way to quickly discover new chord sequences. Therefore a workstation (e.g. the MOXF6) is out of the question. I would also go for the next bigger model (S775). There is a Step Record (ingeniously also for Multipads), which gives me the exact control over the song length. But I'm afraid that this model also has a gap when repeating songs.

So, here is my question to the owners of the S775/975: Are a single song repeated smooth when Song Repeat is set to Single?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 06:04:32 AM by tomsixtwo »
 

Offline Ed B

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2018, 03:32:04 AM »
Tom
Not sure what you are trying to do to create music but the 670 is not a loop station. That said, styles are basically short 4 to 8 bar phrases that repeat or loop . They consist of drums, bass, etc..  eight sections in total using midi channels 8 to 16. You can turn these off individually or use the complete accompaniment. In essence they loop continuously. Why not just improvise over the style or a channel of the style?

If you really want to do what you are suggesting you can use a multipad which has 4 sections and you can set it to loop continuously and it can be as long as you want. Each section is one channel and all can play together. They can be played from the accompaniment section. They are assigned to channels 5 to 8. 
You can also using the song creator build up a song, using multi-tracking, one channel at a time until you have a complete song but each track is generally the length of the song.
With the arranger you have a palette of musical sounds to create whatever genre you desire.

Regards
Ed B
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 01:19:12 PM by Ed B »
Keep on learning
 

Offline panos

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2018, 06:54:50 AM »
Hi Tom,
If you wish to loop just chords then record a 10+ minutes song with those 3-4 chords.
Make sure you record at a low tempo so you can play the chords at the correct timing.
Then save the song at the speed you wish.
Now you can improvise the melody with your right hand.
The chords will be repeatable at least for 10 minutes (or longer if you have the patience.I don't know how many bars a keyboard can record at a time)

If you wish to impovise to chord progression just pick a style,play chords and write down those who fit together and you like(as you probably allready did).

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2018, 07:11:49 PM »
Thank you all for your help. I have accepted that the S670 can't do what I want it to do.

Today I went to a local keyboard dealer and told him my problems. We tried different things. In the end, he was also disappointed that something so simple isn't possible with Yamaha keyboards. He is very friendy and will unpack a S775 tomorrow to see if this keyboard will fulfil my expections.

As soon as I got feedback from him, I will decide ... and report here  :D
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 07:22:54 PM by tomsixtwo »
 

Offline panos

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2018, 07:29:30 PM »
Tom I don't know if Mix Master is any helpful to your needs.
It was made especially for editing midi files from Yamaha keyboards on a pc and after you edit your midi file on your pc you can play it on your keyboard without loosing the voices and midi events as they were recorded on your psr.

https://psrtutorial.com/MB/mixMaster.html


Offline Fred Smith

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2018, 07:41:05 PM »
I don’t understand why you say your problem can’t be solved.

Why don’t you just record a multipad, and put it on repeat?

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2018, 07:48:22 PM »
Thank you for your kind suggestion, panos. I already own a DAW (Ableton Live). I want to use an arranger keyboard to have nothing to do with computers when I relax from work  8)

I don’t understand why you say your problem can’t be solved.

Why don’t you just record a multipad, and put it on repeat?

That could actually be a solution. But as far as I understand the manual, it's not possible to record the accompaniment as multipad.

UPDATE: I just tried it, the accompaniment is played but not recorded :(
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 07:56:00 PM by tomsixtwo »
 

Offline Normanfernandez

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 08:42:43 PM »
Tom I don't know if Mix Master is any helpful to your needs.
It was made especially for editing midi files from Yamaha keyboards on a pc and after you edit your midi file on your pc you can play it on your keyboard without loosing the voices and midi events as they were recorded on your psr.

https://psrtutorial.com/MB/mixMaster.html
Hello Panos,
On a Subject of Repeat.
Is it possible to
Copy and Paste all the notes from all the Channels. And paste them to create a extended song.
Also I'm having a slight trouble with Copy and Paste. 
( I'll note down my Exact Problems and put it on the forum next)
Regards Norman.
Norman Fernandez Keyboardplayer
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngm8h5k5NmKnowJpkxlDBQ

PSR S770 - Roland FP 30 - PSR 280
Cubase - Kontakt6
 

SeaGtGruff

  • Guest
Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 08:44:04 PM »
I have no experience with Multi Pads-- since none of my Yamaha keyboards have that feature-- so I don't know if the following is doable.

Yamaha uses some MIDI messages which can be used to select a given Style, switch to a given section, and even switch to a given key and chord type.

I think Mix Master understands these messages, so you can probably record a Multi Pad, save it to a file, import it into Mix Master, add the messages for selecting the desired Style, section changes, and chord changes, save the modified file, and load it back into the keyboard to be used as a Multi Pad.
 

Offline overover

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2018, 08:52:34 PM »
@tomsixtwo
Hi Tom,

I just sent you a PM, but I forgot to add the subject "German Yamaha Keyboard Forum". :)


Best regards,
Chris
➪ Everyone kept saying "That won't work!" - Then someone came along who didn't know that and just did it.
➪ Never put the manual too far away: There's more in it than you think! ;-)
 

Offline panos

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2018, 08:52:49 PM »
The mulipad can record just a right hand voice and not the accompaniment.
So it just recorded nothing because you didn't play anything with your right hand.

Unless you create an audio multipad,but is there an option for the audio multipadpad to be reapetable as normal multipads?

I was thinking of recording just 4 bars with the song rec button,lets say each bar has a different chord.
When you record the 4 bars just press stop record.
Now go to  usb audio player and record your midi song as a wav file.
Use the A_B repeat indicators to repeat the wav file.
At least now you can repeat the wav file without a blak bar, but you have to be pretty accurate with the B indicator.
Use the repeat mode 1 next to OFF for repeating the audio file.

Pino

  • Guest
Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2018, 04:12:33 AM »
No need to change your keyboard
That S670 is the same as all other Yamaha arrangers,

Nothing in Song Creator will work as a loop,

On YAMAHA arrangers we have a style with 4 variations
Each one A B C D is a sequence of looped bars (2 bars - 32 bars)

Let’s  assume you want a short sequence of 4 bars
Select a style with a suitable drum beat for your sequence
Go to Style Creator, Var A, delete each and every track that you don’t want
Start recording your sequence,
Already got the drums, you have 6 other tracks for recording anything you want
Save your sequence/style
You have 3 other sequences you can work with B C & D,

If I was happy with that sequence on Var A,
I would load that style to ‘Stylemagic’, delete everything apart from Var A
Now the only light that’s turned on is Var A.
Or you may want to copy Sequence A to B C & D and add a little more detail
Then you have 4 sequences, now we’re back to making styles.

These sequences will loop without any timing problems.

Nothing could be easier and Style Creator is an ok place to work

Pino


Page 57. S670 User Manual

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 06:59:42 AM by Pino »
 

Pino

  • Guest
Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2018, 08:28:51 AM »
Well, better Tom come back and explain exactly what he wants
This is what I read in his initial post

My use case is so simple: I want to record four or eight bars of accompaniment, run it as an endless loop and then improvise to it.

Yes, a chord sequencer would do the trick but no point in dreaming Yamaha hasn’t got one,
The next best thing is a style part.

Pino.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 08:31:22 AM by Pino »
 

Pino

  • Guest
Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2018, 10:38:18 AM »
Oops, did someone delete a post 🤔
 

Offline DerekA

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2018, 01:07:50 PM »
No need to change your keyboard
That S670 is the same as all other Yamaha arrangers,

Not quite true - Tyros and Genos can set markers within a MIDI playback, and loop eternally between them.
Genos
 

Offline EileenL

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2018, 01:23:08 PM »
Yes this is done quite easily on keyboards from the Tyros and Genos range.

Pino

  • Guest
Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2018, 02:25:05 PM »
DerekA
I was referring to the ‘Style Creator’, same on all keyboards.

Yes, the tyros has a markers but he has a s670
And maybe upgrade to S970

What’s wrong with going to ‘Style Creator’ and putting your tracks down?
 

Offline DerekA

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2018, 05:23:02 PM »
Pino - using Style Creator is a good way to build up a looping backing track from scratch.

I may be wrong - but I suspect the OP wants to do a "quick record" of a style plus a melody line, over 8 bars, then loop that.
Genos
 

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2018, 06:18:58 PM »
Thanks again for all the advice, you all are great  :)

This is what I read in his initial post

My use case is so simple: I want to record four or eight bars of accompaniment, run it as an endless loop and then improvise to it.

Yes, a chord sequencer would do the trick but no point in dreaming Yamaha hasn’t got one,
The next best thing is a style part.

Please excuse me if I haven't explained this clearly. English is not my native language.

I don't want to create or record a style. I simply want to play the accompaniment and record it as a short song and then play it as a loop.

For testing purposes, I have created a 4 bar chord sequence in Ableton Live with an exact beginning and end. Then I imported the resulting MIDI file into the S670. When I now set Song Repeat to SINGLE, I hear the gap between the repetitions again. So it's definitely not my timing, the S670 just needs a short pause (approx. 2 sec.) between the repetitions.

Soon I will try the S775. It doesn't seem to work with repeating there either, but at least I should be able to enter chord sequences very quickly via Step Record.
 

Offline panos

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2018, 07:43:10 PM »
Here is an example of what Tom wants to do:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11qV7MXBGicLUO8XMWRqoh1GnRe9Vd2KM/view?usp=sharing

You can hear the style playing with chords for just one time.
Now lets say we want to repeat this chord progression without keep recording the same pattern over and over again.
It is something that people do in DAW's in order to save time.
Copy and paste the same pattern and add new ones where is needed.

patrickm

  • Guest
Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2018, 02:53:28 PM »
Somebody in my church does this in Yamaha PSR650 we use at church. He plays and record shortly the chords, bass and style and the keyboard plays forever. If its doable in PSR S650, it should be more better in S670.

Its just that he quieted playing in my church for other churches and we are far away from each other.
 

Offline tyrosaurus

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2018, 04:42:36 PM »
Hi tomsixtoo,

So far you have been trying to achieve your goal using a MIDI recording.  However if you record your short backing sequence as audio using the USB Audio function, you would be able to try the A-B repeat audio playback function. This was suggested by Panos earlier but you do not appear to have tried it.

When playing back an audio file on the keyboard you can set Repeat Points for the start and end of a section of the song, and then the song will repeat that section continuously.  These repeat points have to be set 'on the fly' in real time as the song is playing.

When you record your sequence, it might make it easier to set the repeat points as the song plays if you include a 'count in' intro (Intro 1) at the start and an extra, unwanted bar or two at the end of the sequence.
 
This function is explained at the bottom of page 71 of the PSR-S670 Owner's Manual (English version) in the section 'Playback Related Operations'.

Unfortunately, although the song is obviously already saved after recording it and can be recalled at any time, you can't save the A and B repeat points anywhere, so you would need to set them each time that you start the song.  I don't know if the points are remembered if you pause and resume the song during playback.

Unfortunately my Tyros4 does not have this audio A-B repeat function  :'( so I can't say how easy it is to set up correctly or if the repeat is 'seamless', but it might be worth a try to see if it does what you want and how convenient or otherwise it is!


Regards

Ian
 

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2018, 06:15:13 PM »
Unfortunately my Tyros4 does not have this audio A-B repeat function  :'( so I can't say how easy it is to set up correctly or if the repeat is 'seamless', but it might be worth a try to see if it does what you want and how convenient or otherwise it is!

Tyrosaurus, I tried the audio repeat. Unfortunately, it's not an option for me: You have to start the audio recording manually (no synchronized start when playing the first note). You have to set the both markers in realtime, there is no chance to fine adjust the markers afterwards. It's for complete songs, not for repeatable phrases. Beside this, you get often clicks, if you don't hit the zero crossings in the audio recording.

Since I can still return the S670, I will do that. I'll see if the S775 are more suitable for my purpose. Or I'll wait for the successor of the S670, that shouldn't take long. Maybe Yamaha has learned from his competitors :D

Once again many thanks to all of you for your many suggestions and ideas.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 06:47:24 PM by tomsixtwo »
 

SeaGtGruff

  • Guest
Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2018, 08:41:24 PM »
I've heard about this same issue/request many times over the years with regard to the PSR-E models. Since it was brought up by different people, they all weren't necessarily wanting to do the same thing, but the general request is to be able to select part of a MIDI song file and loop it while the keyboardist-- and possibly other band members-- play solos and jam along to the loop.

Eileen said that this can be done on the Tyros and Genos models. I would have thought that it could also be done on the PSR-S models without the insertion of the extra count-off measure at the beginning of each iteration of the loop, since the PSR-S models don't have the Yamaha Education Suite (or Y.E.S.), and I thought that the A-B Repeat with the count-off measure was a function of the Y.E.S. feature.

Anyway, a Style might appear to be an ideal alternative, but the keyboardist still wants to play the MIDI song normally both before and after the looped portion-- so if a Style were to be used, it would probably require a lengthy Intro that plays all of the song that comes before where the loop is to begin, as well as a lengthy Ending that plays all of the song that comes after the loop, which is doable. However, a Style has only 8 parts (or channels), whereas a Song has up to 16 parts, so aside from the problem of having to take a MIDI song file and convert it into a Style with a very long Intro, a Main loop, and a very long Ending, there's also the problem of trying to squeeze up to 16 channels of a "backing track" into no more than 8 Style parts, which might not be feasible. Plus, the band might change their minds about which portion of the song they want to loop-- for instance, do they want to take turns playing solos between the second and third verses, or after the fourth instance of the chorus, or do they want to skip the solos entirely and just play the "short version" of the song, etc.?

So creating a Style doesn't offer the no-muss-no-fuss solution of spontaneously choosing the starting and ending points of a portion of a song and then looping it for an arbitrary length of time.

As far as copying-and-pasting in a DAW, that's also dependent on looping a predetermined section of the song, not to mention playing the loop for a predetermined number of iterations.
 

Pino

  • Guest
Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2018, 01:14:30 AM »
Yes, your right, I went down the wrong path when I read ‘recording an 8 bar sequence’,
there was no mention of a chord sequencer,

I have a Korg in my studio, I’m very familiar with a chord sequencer.
He has a 670, upgrading to 970 wont solve this problem.
Yamaha PSR does not have a chord sequencer

He’ll just have to keep playing them chords and improvise over.
If this feature is important then I would return the keyboard.

Pino
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 02:14:06 AM by Pino »
 

SeaGtGruff

  • Guest
Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2018, 07:19:45 AM »
I wouldn't call it a chord sequencer, since the request as it's usually made is to arbitrarily loop a section of a MIDI song file, not to record a sequence of chords that will drive an accompaniment or style.

The PSR-E and PSR-S models can do this, EXCEPT they insert a count-in bar before each iteration of the loop.

Eileen has said that the Tyros and Genos can loop part of a song without inserting a count-in bar.

I haven't been able to check on a PSR-E463/PSR-EW410, but the way the A-B Repeat function is described in the Owner's Manual sounds as though the count-in bar is NOT inserted, which-- if that's indeed the case, which I haven't verified yet-- suggests that Yamaha has seen where people have posted about this issue in the past and they've made a change in the A-B Repeat function in response to those posts. It also suggests-- again, if it's indeed the case-- that Yamaha considers the ability to loop part of a MIDI song WITHOUT inserting a count-in bar to be a useful thing.

EDIT: PS -- I would say that the song recorder on the PSR-E models is basically a chord sequencer, at least as far as recording a style is concerned, since the style isn't actually recorded, just the chord changes and section changes. So IF the A-B Repeat function has been changed in the PSR-E463/PSR-EW410 to drop the count-in bar from in front of the looped section, you could record an accompaniment track complete with section changes and chord progressions, then loop a particular chord progression in the manner of a chord sequencer (if I understand what you mean by that term).
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 07:27:44 AM by SeaGtGruff »
 

Offline DerekA

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2018, 12:46:07 PM »
Since I can still return the S670, I will do that. I'll see if the S775 are more suitable for my purpose. Or I'll wait for the successor of the S670, that shouldn't take long. Maybe Yamaha has learned from his competitors :D

I don't think the S775 (or even S975) will give you what you want either.
Genos
 

Offline pjd

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2018, 05:35:03 PM »
Hi tomsixtwo --

I get what you're saying. Here's a little background information that might encourage you to reconsider making a style.

A Yamaha style file is actually a MIDI file with a particular structure and some extra Yamaha-specific stuff inside. If you rename a style file and give it the ".MID" extension, then you can open the style in a DAW.

The extra Yamaha stuff tells the arranger about the parts (MIDI channels) in the style: chord root note, chord type, and how (or if) to transpose. Unfortunately, DAWs throw away the Yamaha stuff, called "CASM" information. The CASM information is easily added or changed using one of the free PSR style/MIDI editing tools available on-line.

You've got a MIDI file from Ableton Live. It just needs to be transformed into a style. Maybe take a look at Jørgen Sørensen's midi2style program:

http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/software.htm

Since the chord progression is cooked into the MIDI file, this would be similar to creating what Yamaha calls a "DJ Style". A style section (e.g., MAIN A) is just a repeating loop after all.

Just a thought and I hope this helps.

-- pj
 

Offline panos

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2018, 06:26:19 PM »
A style can play a "looped" chord progression Roy if you know how to set properly the parameters in style creator.
Usually Yamaha's Intro's 3 & Ending's 3 have a chord progression based on the first chord you play.
But it is a kind of hard thing to achieve even with midi2style.
Same kind of parameters have to be assigned there as in style creator.
E.g "NTT:Root Trance and NTR: Melody" for all parts of the style except drums.
So in that case I would "study" the parameters are used in an intro 3 by Yamaha.

2112

  • Guest
Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2018, 06:34:10 PM »
In my association, for the past several years, with the Casio CTK/WK Arranger Workstations, over on the Casio Forums,  I have seen this same question come up time and time again
How about the "Phrase Pads" feature of the new CT-X3000/CT-X5000 models? It seems like it would meet the needs of the original poster.

Certainly they are much cheaper than the Tyros/Genos or Korg PA boxes.
 

Offline pjd

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2018, 07:21:38 PM »
Hi Roy and Panos --

Great discussion, BTW!

Yamaha introduced "DJ Styles" into some of the recent models. Since we're discussing the PSR-S670, here's a quote from the PSR-S670 Owner's Manual (page 46):

"DJ Styles: These Styles can be selected from the category called up via the [Dance & R&B] button. These contain their own special chord progressions, so you can add chord changes to your performance simply by changing the root key. Keep in mind, however, that you cannot specify the chord type, such as major and minor, when using the DJ Styles."

On the E443, DJ Styles are called "Patterns". Yamaha seems to use different names on different products just to drive us crazy. :-)

If you play a DJ Style, you can hear ("cooked in", pre-defined) chord changes like "Em Dm A" or whatever, assuming in this case, that E is the chord root key.

Panos is correct -- the CASM programming is the same as fully orchestrated introductions and endings with built-in chord changes. In the case of a DJ Style, the MAIN sections are programmed (NTR/NTT) in the same way as elaborate INTROs and ENDINGs are programmed.

I think Panos and I differ here: NTR=ROOT TRANS (Root Transpose) and NTT=BYPASS. BYPASS plus ROOT TRANS maintains the pitch relationship between the notes.

If anyone wants to deep dive this subject, please check out:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/free-djx-ii-styles-for-psr/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/mining-the-yamaha-djx-ii/

Hope this helps -- pj
 

Offline panos

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2018, 08:35:05 PM »
You are absolutely right Roy about how easy or not it is to do what we want sometimes.
We just having a discussion and search for solutions not for just our friend but everyone else and sometimes we get down to technical problems to see how and if something can be done or not.
Tom is familiar with ableton live so I guess he spent 95% of his time equalizing/mixing  etc rather than finding chord sequences.

Pjd, I haven't spent that much time yet on parameters,I just gave a simple kind of example.
We are lucky on his forum that we have people like you and many others that help us with their knowledge. :)
Before I join the forum a year ago I didn't mess up with that style creator thing on my keyboard.

Roy, Ctk may have that feature but it depends how much important is to our friend this function because ctks and psr E series is a category behind the per s series and I am talking basicaly about the overal keyboard sound.
Not to mention how many styles have the option to play and find compare to s670 if he buys something that have limitation on styles.
Just my thoughts,don't have to be the right one in any case :)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 08:37:59 PM by panos »
 

Offline pjd

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2018, 10:01:45 PM »
Here's a demo "loop style" for jazzers.

I started off with a 16 bar MIDI loop. The first eight bars are Dmin7 and the second 8 bars are Cmin7.

There are five style parts:

Channel  Instrument  C.Root  C.Type
-------  ----------  ------  ------
   10      Drum         C     maj7   ROOT FIXED  BYPASS
   11      Bass         D     min7   ROOT TRANS  BYPASS
   12      Guitar       D     min7   ROOT TRANS  BYPASS
   13      EPiano       D     min7   ROOT TRANS  BYPASS
   14      Pad          D     min7   ROOT TRANS  BYPASS

The chord type will be ignored because chord type conversion is bypassed. Only the chord root note (D) is significant.

The style contains only one section: MAIN A. The key that is played in the accompany zone (left hand) determines the new root note. Play D and the chord progression starts with Dmin7. Play E and the chord progression starts with Emin7, etc.

Please feel free to edit. I think this is the simplest possible style, technically.  :)

All the best -- pj

P.S. This isn't meant to be great music...


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Offline pjd

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2018, 10:14:58 PM »
Hi folks --

I get what you're saying, Roy. There should be an easier path and maybe creating a loop style, DJ style or whatever is too much effort or complication. Granted.

That said, I knocked out the demo loop in about an hour. Most of that time was spent making the MIDI file, i.e., finding MIDI phrases that fit together in some musical way. I made the MIDI file in SONAR, including the three markers needed for a minimal style, GM reset and XG reset. Then, I used Jorgen's CASM editor to add the NTR/NTT info. The actual style creation part of the job took 10 minutes once I had an acceptable MIDI loop with parts.

BTW, I'm not going to underestimate Tom. In one of his experiments (posts), he started out with a MIDI loop produced in Ableton Live. In his first post, he has even created voices for the S670 using YEM. Sounds like an adventurous dude.  :)

Whether this is the appropriate approach for someone or not, all I can do is create opportunities for other Forum members.

Hey, hey, have a good weekend, folks! Don't forget to play!

-- pj
 

Offline panos

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2018, 10:17:32 PM »
Roy don't get me wrong. :(
I am terribly sorry if my posts gives you the idea that I argue with you,or PJD,or SeaGtGruff or Tyrosaurus....
Maybe is my bad english...piffff
It is just that everyone of us see things in a different way and just saying his opinion.
Your opinion and everyone else's opinion and experience matters to me and make me see things from another prospective which i might haven't thought.

 

Offline pjd

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2018, 12:01:26 AM »
Your opinion and everyone else's opinion and experience matters to me and make me see things from another prospective which i might haven't thought.

Hi Panos -- That spirit comes through in your posts. We all learn from you, too. Thanks! -- pj
 

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2018, 12:54:28 PM »
Tom is familiar with ableton live so I guess he spent 95% of his time equalizing/mixing  etc rather than finding chord sequences.

What leads you to this assumption?

The creative tasks interest me much more than doing mixer and EQ settings. Discovering new chord sequences and melodies, creating sounds, etc. This can also be done in Ableton. You're not necessarily a nerd or a technician when you work with this software. Creating chords and melodies with an arranger keyboard is just another approach that leads to different results. If you work in the office all day at the computer, you don't want to do that in your spare time. Not always, anyway 8) Hence my desire for an arranger keyboard.

This thread has grown quite a bit in the meantime and has caused some disturbance here and there. Sorry for that.

Offline panos

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2018, 04:16:58 PM »
When I was refairing to mixing/equalizing I meant learning how ableton live works and how much time takes to build and combine tracks etc.
In an arranger you can choose a style, play the chords and melody and you have a ready made composition in few minutes.
I thought that in a DAW takes a little longer to do this and that is the reason I have said that.
Sorry for not been accurate of what I meant.

There is a song section in the forum and people share their music there if you like to join Tom :)



Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2018, 06:00:36 PM »
Ableton has a relatively steep learning curve because the program works differently from other DAWs. However, this time is saved when arranging, since all activities in the so called Session View can be recorded in real time as an arrangement. If you take the time to create an appropriate default song (with your preferred set of instruments, effects and other settings), you can realize your music ideas immediately.

Of course, this cannot be compared at all with the way an arranger keyboard works. Therefore we should now return to the topic (if there is anything to say at all  ;D).

Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2022, 11:13:09 AM »
Ha ha, by accident I came across my old thread again. ;D

Now a few years have passed and Yamaha has at some point actually delivered exactly what I missed back then:  The Chord Looper.
 
Even if this function is unfortunately not part of my SX600, I have a lot of fun with this keyboard. However, I can't understand why this very useful function for learning, practicing and improvising is reserved for the flagship model of the PSR-SX series. From my point of view, this should be rather an entry-level feature.
 

zzrwood

  • Guest
Re: S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2022, 12:10:11 PM »
Not having this feature made me cancel my planned purchase of a DGX-670…
Luckily, Korg make this easy on all their arrangers, so I bought an i3. It works easily and intuitively.