Author Topic: Outputs (Sub 1 & 2)  (Read 326 times)

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Offline Depo1964

Outputs (Sub 1 & 2)
« on: November 08, 2018, 10:38:27 PM »
Are the Outputs Sub 1 & 2 for TRS connections?   
Couldn't find any info in the User or Reference Manuals about this.
I want to split out the Mic (vocal) to one of these and insert the cable into my TouchMix 16
which has 12 XLR inputs and 4 combo Inputs.
I would prefer using one of the XLR inputs.
Thx.
 

Offline overover

Re: Outputs (Sub 1 & 2)
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2018, 11:27:27 PM »
Hi Depo1964,

the Main Out and also the Sub Out jacks of the Genos are internally connected UNBALANCED. This means you have to use TS connectors (not TRS).

The "Ring" contact is (internal in Genos) NOT CONNECTED. Therefore you can NOT use a (balanced) TRS-to-XLR cable.

You can either use a standard TS-to-TS cable or a TS-to-XLR cable, with XLR pins 1 and 3 bridged. (Both are unbalanced cables.)

Of course you can also use a MODIFIED TRS-to-XLR cable, where XLR pins 1 and 3 are bridged OR (inside the TRS connector) the Ring and Sleeve contacts are bridged.




If you want a BALANCED connection, you have to use a TS-to-TS cable (as short as possible) that you connect to a DI-Box and a XLRfemale-to-XLRmale cable to connect the XLR output of the DI-Box to XLR input of your external Mixer.


Best regards.
Chris
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 12:51:46 AM by overover »
 
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Offline Depo1964

Re: Outputs (Sub 1 & 2)
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2018, 02:27:47 PM »
Hi Depo1964,

the Main Out and also the Sub Out jacks of the Genos are internally connected UNBALANCED.
................................................. ......................
Best regards.
Chris
:o
Thanks for the reply Chris.
Wow!!! This is the first disappointing news about the Genos.
Why would Yamaha not want to make the outputs balanced?

Perhaps that should be one of the top improvement features for Genos II.

So I'm ordering some DI boxes for both my MAIN and this new Sub connection I plan to make.
Until those DI boxes arrive, do you think it is possible to use the 2 TRS cables I now have connecting the Genos MAINs with my TouchMix?
I don't want to damage any equipment.

The only thing I noticed when connecting the Genos MAINs to the TouchMix was that I did have to increase the gain on my RME Fireface 400
in order to get good volume levels.
Right now I'm running the TM faders at -3.0.
 

Offline overover

Re: Outputs (Sub 1 & 2)
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2018, 04:38:51 PM »
... Wow!!! This is the first disappointing news about the Genos.
Why would Yamaha not want to make the outputs balanced?

Hi Depo1964,
 
unbalanced outputs are sufficent in most cases. Up to a cable length of about 5 meters normally you can use unbalanced cables.

Very important is that the keyboard and the mixer are connected to the same mains power circuit (same phase), to avoid grounding potential differences respectively hum loops). Unbalanced cables should also NOT be layed/installed parallel to mains power cables over a longer distance or near power adapters.

I think, it is not nessesarily a disadvantage that the outputs on Genos (just like on Tyros and PSR-S models) are unbalanced. In order to bridge large distances (for example big stages or from the stage to the front-of-house mixer), normally DI-boxes are used anyway (to have a balanced/symmetrical signal with a low impedance).


... So I'm ordering some DI boxes for both my MAIN and this new Sub connection I plan to make.
Until those DI boxes arrive, do you think it is possible to use the 2 TRS cables I now have connecting the Genos MAINs with my TouchMix?
I don't want to damage any equipment.

The only thing I noticed when connecting the Genos MAINs to the TouchMix was that I did have to increase the gain on my RME Fireface 400
in order to get good volume levels.
Right now I'm running the TM faders at -3.0.

I recommend to use TS cables. You can also connect a TS-to-TS cable to a balanced "combo" input jack. Or you use an unbalanced TS-to-XLR cable (as shown in the graphic above). It is important that Phantom Power is switched OFF on balanced inputs, if you connect a unbalanced cable to it (e. g. a TS plug or a TRS plug with "Ring" and "Sleeve" bridged or an XLR connector with pins 1 - 3 bridged).

If you use TRS cables to connect Genos output to balanced inputs yet, you can NOT damage any equipment, BUT the signal then is connected only to the "+ phase" of the balanced input (XLR pin 2 respectively the "Tip" contact of a balanced TSR jack or "combo" jack). Normally, in such cases it is usual to brigde XLR-pins 1 - 3 ("ground" and "- phase") inside the XLR connector (or to bridge "Tip" and "Sleeve" inside a TRS plug).

If a (not modified) TRS cable is used, the wire that is connected to XLR pin 3 respectively the "Ring" contact of an balanced input is OPEN then, because the "Ring" contact is NOT CONNECTED in the Genos output jacks (as menitioned before). This "open" wire can cause hum.


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 04:50:35 PM by overover »
 
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