Author Topic: nearly out of turmoil now  (Read 29735 times)

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Offline ugawoga

nearly out of turmoil now
« on: August 27, 2018, 09:59:31 PM »
Hi

I have just recorded a tune with an edm beat  and sounds ok on my speakers.
I think it is going great until I put the song on my Marantz stereo  and it is so boomy.
I have put my eq on flat and used normal on my compression. Just turned up the compression output volume up a bit.
I do not know where to start now as i have had good sounds out of my Genos but using the electric house beat puts the kick drum way too hefty. I take the kick drum down a peg and then sounds tinny.
I will keep trying , but I seem to be going backwards with my sound.
What settings to record and get great quality do some of you use as I am getting frustrated.
I have redone Oxygene 8, three  times now and all sounds boomy or Thuddy on my stereo.
Any expert help appreciated.

All the Best
John :(
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 02:59:41 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Online EileenL

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2018, 10:28:48 PM »
Hi John
  I never do an audio recording with compression turned on. Never sounds as it should at the end.

Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2018, 11:38:25 PM »
Hi Eileen
Thanks for that tip as I will have a go tomorrow with that off.
The Genos Is a lot harder to get right than the Tyros,but I do know that the Genos is all there.
I have been struggling with modern beats and I find the kick drums way oversize.
At the moment I am trying all ways to get a happy medium.
I listen to the demos and they are way lower recording than you can get on the Genos.
I try a commercial audio and compare,but can never get close to that all round warmth without vibrating the speakers with mud and thump.
I will suceed In the end, but I have had a couple of days headache with this.


All the Best]
John :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2018, 01:25:39 AM »
Hi Eileen
Maybe getting somewhere again.
Not holding my breath just yet.
Can a recording come out pristine from the Genos or does it have to be worked In a daw such as Cubase to get the best out of a recording to get a pro type recording.
It Is all hit an d miss with me at the moment
 :-\

all the best
John :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2018, 05:27:06 AM »
I feel your frustration john...so for the fear of repeating my self (!)... explorer this https://youtu.be/i8lcbC7DKNY there will be many reasons why you are struggling with your recording journey and i think to say that your expectation is probably to high incomparison to a commercial
Pro recording... this can be reasoned once the facts can be established when considering your process, that would include..."environment"..."hardware"..."process" and "knowledge" and this software as I found out for myself (which is not that expansive in comparison to all the components that go into a commercial recording) can remedy many things that I mention above which could be hindering your process and results... I would research and study this software john and give it some consideration....hope this helps  :) P.s. very easy to setup and use.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 06:04:36 AM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 
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Online EileenL

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2018, 11:42:07 AM »
Hi John,
  I suppose it all depends on what we want to get from our keyboards. I find the styles in Genos are much better balanced base wise and kick drums do not knock your head off as in Tyros.
   When I record to audio I use Genos EQ settings and no compressor and find I hear what I heard when playing the piece. I don't use anything other than the keyboard.
   I bought my keyboard just to sit and play and have a relaxing life and did not want to send hours setting things up as I had done in the past. For me this took a lot of the joy away from just playing and enjoying  what I was doing. That is why I like Genos so much. The sound for me is just great and I can just go over and sit and play it and I am happy.
   Good luck with finding what you are looking for and enjoying your journey.

Offline Tommy 73

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2018, 01:27:54 PM »
Keep going john it's a creative process to "Enjoy" don't be deterred or beat your self up too much and when everything falls into place it will be very satisfying...perhapps a home recording course or a copy of Paul white book "The Producer's Manual " from Sound on Sound magazine may help with some bed time reading...

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« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 01:29:22 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2018, 02:42:33 PM »
HI Tommy
It Is not the playing ,It is the flaming mixing that makes me want to jump off a cliff sometimes!! ;D
I will have a good read and purchase that book.

To get this absolutely right,do you get a better rcording Flat Eq and no compression???
Just have to get the sound right  which Is not so bad.
With eq and compression on, my stereo marantz system was booming and resonating and sounded muddy and thuddy with the lead instruments buried Inside.
I tried with flat Eq and no compression and It sounded better on my stereo this time, and Is getting closer.
The funny thing Is that I got quicker and better results from My Tyros 5 when i had It.
On the Genos everything sounded tinny and toppy,ok on stereo.
Well I am thinking that you must have a no eq and compression for recording the best from the Genos and use eq and compression settings for pleasure listening.
Is that the way to go??
Once I get a good recording from the Genos ,I then can play with It In Cubase to finalize to bring the song up to a decent - 3db level.
I am thinking also of getting better headphones Like Beyer Dynamics.
That Soundworks program for headphones ---is It worth the money?????


What do you think about mixing with Pink Noise???---looks easy to get good results from video that I have watched.


All The best
john :)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 02:47:26 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2018, 03:43:06 PM »
Hi John.. I understand it's not the playing... I use EQ and compression but my compressor is a hardware mulit-band compressor (Drawmer 1973) great for mastering which you can get as a VST version for your DAW and this has many preset which would be good for you I think... one thing to look at is your low-mid frequency say about 185 to 250 Hz and play a round with a tight Q value and reduced NOT boost and see if that helps again lots to read online which could help...I will try to find some useful links for EQ etc for you.... as for Sonarworks 4 room calibration system then it's bloody good once you establish and reconfigure your self with it...but the headphone side of sonarworks i have but not used in practice although a quick test with some good studio headphones was astonishing..so try there online test demo and see what you think and perhaps there free trial (if they have one ?) ... mixing with pink noise I am aware of but have no experience with it so maybe keep things simple for now...  I'm sure you know but small increments with any EQ setting as you go and its not all about boosting all the time as some reducing can be necessary as well :)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 08:04:18 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 
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Offline Tommy 73

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2018, 08:35:51 PM »
With ref: to the Drawmer 1973 mulitband compressor plug-in and with out trying to over load you with to much information in the sea of voices and information out there...then somthing you could try is the 3 week trial of this mulitband compressor and after some experimentation if you dont like it dont buy it.... so try first with "NO EQ" or any other "Compressors" active and only using the Drawner 1973 plugin then toggle through the presets to find a sound that starts to feel and sound right...then cross ref: this on you home hi-fi...car stereo etc then come back and tweak from there and check again... repeat until you are happy...the nice thing with a mulitband compressors like the Drawmer 1973 is you can use it like an EQ to shape the sound but in small steps at first...let us know how you get on with any of the suggestion put forward in this thread  :) https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/softube-drawmer-1973-s73-imp  P.s...(Tip)... on the Low Band activate the "BIG" switch and on the High Band again activate the "AIR" switch .
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 09:23:31 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 
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Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2018, 09:44:14 PM »
John, I still think recording from the Genos should be done "flat." Reason: the adjustment presets on the Genos may be geared toward two things - home playing through the Genos speakers and live playing through fairly loud equipment. Those presets may conflict with studio grade adjustments. So, record on the Genos (flat), and then import the files to Cubase and go to work with as little change as possible.

Remember, certain types of music need a heavy boost in the sub woofer range, while other music needs a maximally flat response. What type of music are you recording? Perhaps you could upload your prototype recording for some of us to evaluate. Sounds like we need more information before we can give you a reliable answer.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2018, 10:43:52 PM »
Hi Lee
I am doing an electronic number Oxygene 8 and had loads of trouble with bass from electro house style which goes well with the tune for an upbeat sound rather than laid back.
I had to go Into the drum edit In the Style edit section and lower a few things to get It to sound warm, and stop bass from the kick drum thudding the life out of you.
took me some time to get what i wanted
From pro recordings you hear great stereo width and bass not overloaded and nice and warm. You also hear little bits and bobs float about In the stereo field very precise and clear still with that warmth no matter what loudness.
I ask for -3 db , not 0 db..
I have some old Tapco moitors which do sound flat and I have just again looked at them and spent time balancing each side.
I have a small room 10x 10 feet give or take a little with brick built walls and It is quite deadpan with the door closed. The door has small square glass panels and may need some dampening in that area.
The tapco monitors I keep pretty low volume and you then can hear all small detail and I do not hear any reflections, but I am 67 and my hearing may not be that of a 20 year old.
A phone ringing all of a sudden makes me jump out of my skin!! :o :-\
Well Lee, I have got something reasonable going on the Tapco monitors and I will either be delighted or depressed when trying on my DXR 8's and Marantz stereo.
It Is a long road this mixing and I will keep battling on until I get there.
This Sonarworks seems a little expensive for the works and I am not sure about it 100%.The Genos sounds are almost all prepared for you, so it really should not take a lot to get right.
We all talk about EQ for the Genos , but there should be an standard EQ setting  situation for recording no matter what your environment.
I get Eq-ing to get your listening speakers right for your room.
It would be nice to get an Eq chart rather than having a In depth tutorial about what Is wrong with frequencies just for the record side and then go to Cubase.
When recording  Instrumentals on the Genos It is all internal, so there must be an EQ standard for that , then onwards.

I can do eqing In cubase for a finished song, but It Is the Midi to Audio that Is where I get It all wrong.

All the Best
john


« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 01:41:24 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline pjd

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2018, 11:11:55 PM »
Hi John --

I mix through Mackie 824 studio monitors. Flat EQ and default compression (if enabled at all).

Mastering is the final step and frankly, I'm inclined to use iZotope Ozone Elements for mastering. This means working in a DAW or audio editor (Magix Audio Studio) on PC. Even then, changes at the mastering stage are subtle  -- the mix needs to right before mastering. Mastering is just polish.

On Genos, I now spend time inserting effects on MIDI channels in order to get the basic instrument track sounds that I want to hear.

Although I like my QSC PA speakers, they color the sound -- not very good for producing a mix on a broad range of "targets" like consumer stereo or ear buds! I suspect that the DXRs color the sound, too.

Hope this helps -- pj
 
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Offline Tommy 73

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2018, 04:52:36 AM »
https://youtu.be/PR3-J9C4g0M https://youtu.be/WNfTnhcJ8yw and totally agree with PJ... exclude your DXR's in any recording process   :)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 07:08:32 AM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2018, 07:03:44 PM »
Hi Tommy
The Drawmer looks nice .
I have LP EQ and LP multband 64bit and must be the same virtualy as the Drawmer.
Be nice on Psr to have a Mixing club as a lot of people would love to get Into the mix ;D
I have centered my tapco monitors and got them sounding great left and right side .
I put my song through them and now making adjustments .
I have decided flat eq and no compression from what is said.
Things are starting to even up now as I have been comparing the the original and some other songs as Mark Styles said.
Also I have looked at the Genos eq and effects foreach Instrument.
I am nearly satisfied with the flat monitoring stage .Then it is on to Cubase hopefully.

All the best
john :)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 07:07:45 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2018, 07:52:15 PM »
Great John.. sounds all good to me and digging into the mix and individual EQ on each instrument sounds like you are getting into the heart of things and hopfuly correcting in the mix first before any final polish with a little mastering later...hopfuly you are enjoying things a little more...have you decoupled your monitors john from your work surface ?... Well worth doing if you have not....liked your Oxygen 8 we have to here the final version when it's finished and don't be scared to try new things and experiment it's all part of the learning curve... I fancy you could give us a good version of Tubular Bells next... 8)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 09:06:20 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2018, 08:23:50 PM »
Hi Tommy
What Do you mean decoupling monitors from work surface ?
I have a long round the wall desk and I have speaker stands with pads on the desk and the speakers are on proper foam pads.
The stand plates which the speakers are sitting on angle slightly so you can centralise to your lug holes!!!
I hope that is ok.
I also do not have the monitors up very loud. I have them just up enough to hear the detail each side.
I hope I am right in saying that I do not get wall reflections as I roughly sit at the apex of the tiangle about 3ft to each speaker cone. The walls around me are brick.
I not an expert in this field but It is all trial and error .
It was the same when I got Into computers and kept crashing my then Pentium 4. Learnt to make Images of the drives. Hopefully Foolproof now. I now have a I7 ,very fast with 32 gig ram running Cubase. Also have vst's.
I have done lots of adjustments now to the sound comparing with pro recordings and that horizontal  slider on the Genos is great as you can go back and forwards.
Tomorrow I will re-record and let my ears have a rest tonight. I will put the song up when finished.
There are so many songs that people do not play and that Is the areas that interest me (like Alan Parsons project, Mr Blue sky full version etc).
I do hope this time meat goes in  ;D   ::)  sausage comes out!!

All the best
john :)

Ps   Is It worth It to get some Beyer Dynamic calibrated headphones at a £150 or round about.????
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 08:41:59 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2018, 09:26:43 PM »
That's it John your monitor stands and foam pads mean they are decoupled... as for the headphones..as long as your audio interface has a good headphone amp and can drive the headphones sufficiently should be ok... perhapes check with your dealer first but I must admit i don't trust headphones for the serious stuff but they are good when every one has gone to bed and allows you to carry on late into the night... the main thing is to get use to your monitors + gear and how things translate back and forth with other audio devices... also one very small thing to do to your monitors...very carfully tighten all the driver screws (speaker screws)  but dont over do it and end up stripping the tread seats..this will tighten your sound up if time has loosened the screws...... maybe save the money on the new hi-end headphones and put it towards some better monitors could be money better spent in the long term
 https://www.musictech.net/2015/04/focal-alpha-50-80-review/ or  https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/focal-alpha-65 ...just a thought though :)                P.s. "Mr Blue Sky" most definitely
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 05:32:37 AM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2018, 08:48:17 AM »
Hi Tommy

I will see what my old Tapcos do first before deciding on something like Focus Alpha.
I am really trying to get down and master this to a decent standard.
When I first got my Tapco monitors they sounded boxy to me and flat. Well, that Is compared to Hi- Fi speakers.
I eventually found out that they are supposed to be ;D
I am getting the hang of It all now as nothing is coloured.
I have re -recorded the song and done It in one take after about five tries. All registrations set.
I will record each track separate to audio and split the main playing track for processing. The top line has about three registration changes and I can split each part and drag It down to another track.
Experiment time nearly here again.
Later, I will start recording tracks separately, but for covers of a tune just play them.
I want to get the mix side up to a good standard consistantly before attempting Genos with vst combined for my own material..
You may be interested that IK Multimedia are selling 6 effect plugins for the price of one, which includes Mastermatch, eq's and all sorts. This is a new group buy. You pay for the highest price and then you can choose all equivilents.
Just wondering if that is  a good deal  or not.Seems worth exploring. You can only get 5 other plugins equivilent to the first one you pay for.
So for the best ,It would be £120  for 6 plugins.
I do have mastermatch though and It does a good job if you get your homework right, but each tune has different outcomes.
I just have to get some consistancy going.

Another thing that is baffling me is Cubase and the way It treats Midi.
I put my song Into cubase to tighten It up a little and when stopping to edit all is ok, but If I start again the volume of the gm drums goes up considerately. If I go back to the beginning and start again all is ok. I am using a user style and It seems to go back to the preset style, that is if you start and stop anywhere in the song. Strange anomaly, but I will have to compare In Mixmaster .
When editing midi It does change the lead sounds if you have played all of the lead on the top line track. I suppose if you start anywhere but the start with midi, It has to read the program changes. Sometimes you get strange instruments taking over until you restart or go back to the last sound on the same track line.
I hope you know what I mean as It gets a little annoying sometimes. It does not stop you editing though.
Put the song back into the Genos and all Is fine again
No problems with vst editing because that is what the programs like Cubase are built for.
It would be great If Yamaha made a Daw that knows every midi nook and cranny. :P Well, they should!! ;D
I do feel that Yamaha could make a book for mixing and deeper operations Instead of how to change a sound or make a registration. All you get from Yamaha Is a couple of online manuals and videos of different people showing off what the Genos can do with a few angled shots of the keyboard. Just gloss.
Even Soundpacks do basic tutorials and charge £5 for them and they are nothing more than what you get in the online manual.
These Yamaha programmers and makers of the machine could also give us some of their experience In making non dumbed down videos. A lot of tutorial videos you see is like someone is talking to children and can take an hour to get to the point.
Just my opinion there IMO!!! ;D :o
Why can't we have a book called    Genos --The works with decent tutorials that go deeper into the machine and get the best out of It. After all the machine cost £3,500 
Well, It Is the same as going on holiday. You can travel around the world with a piece of paper printed from your Hp Hewlett Packard printer!! ;D
You get the feeling that Yamaha do not want you to know everything :-\


All the best
john :)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 09:15:13 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2018, 10:45:42 AM »
 As for your final point john when you look at the synth side of Yamaha's buissness we get the official Yamaha forum with dedicated expert's to answer any inquiries + articles including some YouTube coverage... clearly the other side of there keyboard buissness (Arrangers) which has a large Revenue is lacking in the same after care as the synth side at Yamaha.......
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 09:08:28 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2018, 10:52:03 AM »
Hi Tommy

You do get strange things happening when editing midi In cubase, but there are workarounds.
I hope I am not alone with different strange happenings like sound changes or some tracks that go louder than others when stopping and starting and edit.
Always corrects itself when going back to the start
Bit like snakes and ladders. ;D


All the best
John :)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 10:53:42 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2018, 10:55:58 AM »
Why not some expert here start a section

MIXING FOR MORONS  :)  UGAWOGA!!!
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Online EileenL

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2018, 11:09:16 AM »
I suppose when you look at it John Genos is first and foremost an arranger keyboard and is bought by a lot of home players who just like to use what the keyboard will produce for them. Some go out gigging with it and play live entertaining others. To Yamaha it is doing its job and very well to. When it comes to add on's and other things then I think you have to read there guide lines on how to use with your keyboard. I can't see Yamaha producing manuals for all these different applications.
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2018, 01:08:39 PM »
Hi Eileen
You  are right there, but there is a opening for third parties to capitalize on as there must be a lot of home musicians that want decent recording results.
Even if it is for playing at home, I personally would like to reach high standards of recording, otherwise It is an expensive toy. I hate bad recordings as Mp3 is to a wave file.
You cannot beat a wave on a hi-fi. :P
The Genos is certainly up there with keyboards like the Montage.
I am getting around the Genos and It is a truly great workstation
I always get the feeling that pro's look down on home keyboardist's and Yamaha must do as well as the Montage is well supported and the Genos is fend for yourself.
People are having troubles with audio phrazer and things like that and not much is said about all those advantages.
The price of the Genos warrants better support.
If someone made a video of mixing a song from start to finish on the Genos, It would make a lot of people happy, even if there was a fee.
More support using Genos with cubase would help. More help with sound programming and detailed help on using all the effect modules.
Just a couple of things I my opinion that would  that would benefit the Genos user.
Luckily I have now learnt on my own about a lot of things and probably will learn for the rest of my days ;D
I can understand you saying, but I love the experience so far really

It's a lot of worry aint It Eileen ;D


All the \best
John :)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 01:11:14 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2018, 03:58:19 PM »
Hi Tommy

You do get strange things happening when editing midi In cubase, but there are workarounds.
I hope I am not alone with different strange happenings like sound changes or some tracks that go louder than others when stopping and starting and edit.
Always corrects itself when going back to the start
Bit like snakes and ladders. ;D


All the best
John :)

There should be a setting, maybe in the Preferences menu that forces the DAW to go back to read previous
channel settings  every time you restart play so you get the desired set ups. That's how Sonar and Cubase used to work when I had them installed. (Since I had to reinstall Windows after an update bricked my computer I haven't  bothered to reinstall Cubase yet! )

John
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2018, 05:35:08 PM »
Hi John
Did you not save a drive Image???
As soon as your up again save a drive Image in Windows 10. It works great.
My last computer went bonk after updates.
Had a music computer built by PC Specialist here in uk.
Well built and very fast for £1600.Worth every penny.

I will have a look at the preferences In cubase .Thanks for the tip.

All the best
John :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Roland

  • Guest
Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2018, 06:35:53 PM »
Hello John,

Without getting too much into the details: Just remember that any Tyros or Genos "out-of-the-box" is designed to sound good on its own - pretty much how Eileen has suggested all along. But the default settings are NOT what you would use to record a music production in Cubase! And no, not even changing compressor settings and EQ's (with some exceptions) will make it sound better for your Cubase project.

The reason for that is: Tyros and Genos keyboards use a number of DSP's to make them sound great. But when recording, you DO NOT want those DSP's effects (for the most part). The DSP effects you will add later in Cubase; first on a "per-track" basis when mixing and to a very small degree later again when mastering. Assuming you record MIDI to Cubase. Recording Audio is a different story!!!

Let me show you an example: Choose a Style, like ChartBallad for example. The bass drum of the drum kit and the bass drum of the HipHop kit have a reverb programmed to them. Which sounds fine when playing the keys as is. But for recording (especially a MIDI recording in Cubase), that is very bad. You want to record your bass drums and bass dry!

I record all drum and percussion dry when working on a Cubase production (don't forget to "dissolve" the drum kits to individual tracks, and don't forget that each drum element is mono - so is the bass !!). And how do you get them "dry"? (We're still talking MIDI recording!) If you record MIDI from the keys to Cubase, then Cubase will, at playback time, send the recorded MIDI signals to the keys (whatever you record in real-time or by importing a MIDI file). So here I like to remove any signals (CC's) in my MIDI files (use the List Editor) that tell the keys to use DSP's (at least for the drum and bass tracks). AND on the key (use the Mixing Console) I set the track effects (go to EFFECT/TYPE on Tyros) to NO EFFECTS. Now when I render the MIDI track to Audio, I again have a "dry" recording. At this point, I have the basics to start mixing.

Typically it gets "boomy" and "mushy" because of layering reverb, echo and other effects. The "layering" happens sometimes already with the recording, then at play-back time (still have the keys connected as input instruments when mixing? If yes, select "no instrument" to the left in the inspector panel, else you get loop-backs!), then at mix time (some instruments stay "dry" and only get a bit reverb in the overall master mix), and then when you master.

What helped me most: Understanding that there is a BIG difference in the process when recording Audio vs. recording MIDI to a DAW. AND to turn effects OFF when recording for those tracks that don't need those effects in the first place.
And it is a totally different process again if you just record and playback MIDI or Audio on the keyboard without using a DAW.

I hope that this will guide you in the right direction :-)

Take good care. Cheers, Roland
 
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Roland

  • Guest
Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2018, 06:40:27 PM »
Hi John
Did you not save a drive Image???
As soon as your up again save a drive Image in Windows 10. It works great.
My last computer went bonk after updates.
Had a music computer built by PC Specialist here in uk.
Well built and very fast for £1600.Worth every penny.

I will have a look at the preferences In cubase .Thanks for the tip.

All the best
John :)
Open the List Editor for the selected track - there you see that it sets your LSB/MSB's, PRG changes, CC's etc. This file always needs to be read by Cubase FROM THE START - to read all settings. So always "rewind" all the way to make sure the file is read from the start. That should do the trick :-)

Cheers, Roland
 
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Offline jwyvern

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2018, 06:57:19 PM »
Hi John
Did you not save a drive Image???


All the best
John :)
Yes, but the computer was so solidly locked up there was no way to get to install it that I could find.

JohnW
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2018, 07:14:11 PM »
Hi Roland

I will digest what you have said and have a go that way you suggest.
I am up to have a go for anything.
I will just quickly finish the song I have done and look at a new way and take In all the points you have explained to me.
I do like to bang a tune out quickly without too much fuss. Good for practice. Fast results ,but not always the best sounding.
I record a tune and sometimes they come out great and others come out tinny muffly too low volume etc..
I just want to get consistancy with sound.
It Is weird though as I recorded a song on the Tyros 5 sometime back and It sounded great on all equipment.
It does not always turnout that way for the budget minded musician ::) ;D

 I have to get Meat going In and sausage coming out!! ;D ;D ;D ;D :P

All the best
john :)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 10:09:30 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2018, 07:17:46 PM »
Hi john
Flaming computers are a total waste of time sometimes and we do not need crashes or lockups in this day and age.
I personally think computers are good for about 5 years and then get another one.
I purchased a new one with plenty of headroom this time.


All the best
john :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline markstyles

Re: I am In half turmoil now
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2018, 03:00:09 PM »
Your room where you listen, has a fair amount of impact on it.  Chances are your room is altering the sound, and you over compensate.  If the mixes sound decent in your room, but consistantly boomy in other listening environments, you need to lower the bass when mixing down. Foam de-coupling of speakers on stand for studio monitors is an issue. The shape of your room is very important.  Low frequency sound waves, have much more powers, and can move around objects, they bounce off the walls, multiple times. Hi frequency sound waves get absorbed, and don't bounce around as much.

If speakers are too close to a wall, the wall also acts like a speaker effect.  I had Mackie 825's for a while, and my mixes sounded great in my room, but pretty boomy in other situations.  I had the money and bought a pair of Genelecs. Sound improved radically.
However you don't have to spend a fortune, on speakers. You have to 'fine-tune' your ears, to be more perceptive.  So you can compensate in your mixes. Some engineers, will put a final bit of high end, on the output, or some bass roll-off, or even a notch in the mid-range.  Listen to your instrument carefully.  Often guitars, may have a moderate amount of low end, which sounds good, but when you add a bass, it starts to get muddy. I might roll off some bottom end, or notch on each of the guitar.

Being a recording engineer for decades of my life in professional studios, gives me an advantage in that department.  In actuality, Yamaha has done an incredible job, of sound engineering.  Their products consistantly give a better homogenous mix, (in part because of their EQ'ing, and use of limiter).  Yes, sometimes, you might want to change or shut off the limiter, but in general, their settings are a good all around balance. 

It's been quite a while since I used the Mackie speakers, if there is a low end roll off, try switching that in, Google some articles on sound mixing. you should find some helpful  tips.  re-positioning the speakers..A perfect rectangle room, is a hard place to mix, because of the sound bouncing around.  I bought some foam squares, placed them in strategic places. The foam cylinders placed will weaken the power of bouncing low sound waves.

An old trick, is to keep lowering the master volume, and carefully listen to the mix.  As you keep lowering notice what is left.  If all you hear at the lowest settings is bass, drums, lower their volume. The best mix is a compromise.  You want the mix to sound good on as many systems as possible.  For years I worked at a nightclub.  I would often have the DJ play my mixes in the beginning of the night, so I could compare them to other commercial releases.  I freaked out at first, cause my mixes were so bass heavy. I compensated, by lowering the low end. So they did not sound their best, on my home system, but still passible. When played in the club. they sounded decent.  I also began to notice, how many songs played in clubs, were not the best mixes.  Often hip-hop music will have extremely loud drums, bass.  Much more than suits my taste. But that is part of the style of hip-hop. Also those mixes sound better on boom-boxes and earbuds.

As a fine tuning of your ears, listen to as many commercial mixes as possible. Especially music thru the decades. Notice songs, where the snare drum is really too loud.  The 80's music made a lot of use of loud 'gated' snare drums.  But now, it just sounds so weird. Our ears have become conditioned to the current acceptable sounds. 

Find music you really like, plug it into your system, and play your song, Although keys, tempos will clash listen to the balance of each instrument. Sometimes when working on a song, I get used to a certain, mix, balance, and then a few days later, I pull up the song, and think, '****, that kick drum is just way too loud. But I couldn't hear it before.

The performer will focus on their instrument, the guitar player will want his instrument to be the loudest, singer his voice etc.
When you mix-down. You have to stop being subjective, and become objective.  You don't want to favor the instrument you play.
For instance, some musicians, a bit insecure about their abilities, (I'm not the best electric piano player), will subconsciously lower the electric piano.  Mixing, mastering is an art form in itself.  Like any talented person, they often spend most of their life, mastering their craft.  It is forever a learning, listening, modifying process.

Hope this gives your some ideas to ponder. 

Those of us here are usually playing all the parts, because of the nature of arranger instruments.
 
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Offline pjd

Re: I am In turmoil again
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2018, 04:26:01 PM »
Another thing that is baffling me is Cubase and the way It treats Midi.
I put my song Into cubase to tighten It up a little and when stopping to edit all is ok, but If I start again the volume of the gm drums goes up considerately. If I go back to the beginning and start again all is ok. I am using a user style and It seems to go back to the preset style, that is if you start and stop anywhere in the song. Strange anomaly, but I will have to compare In Mixmaster .
When editing midi It does change the lead sounds if you have played all of the lead on the top line track. I suppose if you start anywhere but the start with midi, It has to read the program changes. Sometimes you get strange instruments taking over until you restart or go back to the last sound on the same track line.

Hi John --

When I hear behavior like this, I scan each track from beginning to end in a MIDI list editor. I look for MIDI CC events like expression (CC#11), volume (CC#7), Bank change (CC#0 and CC#32), and Program Change. Yamaha's style sections sometimes contain program (patch) changes. I clean out any events that look suspicious or unwanted.

Same is true if I'm working with a commercial MIDI Song file. Some MIDI files are clean with all CC#7, pan and patch change at the beginning, a few are nightmares.  :)

BTW, I've been updating a few Alan Parson's songs (very old TUNE 1000 MIDI files). Great stuff to jam to.

All the best -- pj
 
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In half turmoil now
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2018, 07:14:26 PM »
Hi Pjd
I will look again what you have said  ana I will reply to mark styles tomorrow as I wrote a long reply and lost it in Hyperspace after I pressed the wrong button

This Is where I have got with mixing , but I hope the playing Is ok

My version of  Alan parson project     https://soundcloud.com/silver-machine/eye-in-the-sky-and-really-siriushttp://

all the best
John

Ps I am thinking of getting some Yamaha hs 7 monitors and some decent open back headphones to complete my setup for mixing.
Do I need a dac for good quality headphones or just an amplifier?? or ok on their own like Beyer Dynamics or Akg , or Audio Techna and would the Yamaha hs 7 out strip my small old Tapco monitors.
I got some spare money for improvements ,but do I really need what I have been looking at??
My DXR 8's are great for listening and playng music
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 11:39:20 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Re: I am In half turmoil now
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2018, 05:45:17 AM »
(Some mixing short trainings on internet : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClzweVW0WDL1HbMt0OtR33w

Soundphase)
 
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Offline Tommy 73

Re: I am In half turmoil now
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2018, 07:00:29 AM »
John try and stay away from rear ported monitors if you are close to a wall as this can create problems with lower frequency which should not be there... recently I helped a friend change and set up his home studio where we had several pairs of monitors back and forth for demo... what stood out from the crowd where the Focal Alpha's which where purchased and the Yamaha HS series where included in the long line-up of brands we tried... BUT this is all very subjective as every one can tell you what they think is best (or not) so really at this stage john to help you i would find a dealer with a good selection of monitors etc you can try for your self and hopefully a good knowledgeable sales person to help... just as a side note to go with the above... headphones.. then AKG spring to mind and Audio Interface..if you are on a budget then the New crop of Focusrite come out on test very well  :)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 07:17:06 AM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In half turmoil now
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2018, 09:41:39 AM »
Hi Tommy
I think that is good advice for me this time and that is test them out at a dealer.
I think now front ported speakers for monitors would be best for my room, so Focal Alpa is worth looking at.
I think also for siitting close the small ones would be sufficient.
The Tapco's that I have are not that good.
If the Focals are anything like the demo I seen It would far out weigh the Tapcos as the clarity accross the stereo field on drums only sounded impressive.
But you do not know whether the demo recordings have been flowered up for the selling tactic.
So I will go for something like the Focals and get some good headphones also for working with so I do not to annoy my other half In the lounge looking at the box.
With the headphones I keep reading that you need a dac amp to bring the best out of good headphones and open back Is recommended for mixing. The Beyer Dynamics look good and so does the Audio techna and AKG's from reports.
I do have some old akg 301 extra headphones and you have to turn the Genos up well over half way to get a decent volume.
I do have a focusrite 6i6 and have put the headphones through them and they sound pretty good to me. They would be ok In that situation for vst and daw. You have to have the computer switched on for that though. Going through the Genos you do not have to have the computer switched on all the time.
I thing my Akg's are better for pleasure listening and not mixing. But i do know that it Is better to mix on monitors and then adjust for headphones.
As you see I am all unsure about a few things and the only trouble now is expensive mistakes
The other way Is through the Genos.
At the moment My Genos Is going through the Focusrite 6i6 and to computer with a little fat boy controller in the chain.
For working with the Genos only I do not switch the Focusrite 6i6 on as the Yamaha driver sorts that out when using the computer to edit.
When recording then the Focusrite 6i6 Is switched on.
Well I am only a bedroom musician ,I think!!! ::)  That producers book you mentioned  was £28 originally. You can pick It up at Amazon for just over £5 now

I am forgetting music today . Going hopefully to see Swindon Town hammer MK Dons   (the franchise)  English league division 2   COYR!! "Come On You REDS"!!
We are probably Vauxhall conference bound >:( ;D . Nice sunny day to get out and about!!
We have that 'orrible Oxford United above us!!! :o

All the best
John :)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 10:35:51 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In half turmoil now
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2018, 09:59:38 AM »
Hi Mark

Big thanks for your in depth explanation, much appreciated.
I will of course listen to as many commercial mixes for comparisons.
The thing is getting used to listening to music with flat response equipment.
It has taken me some time to get the hang of It as my old Tapco monitors are not the best In the world.
They have always sounded boxy to me..
I am going to look at the Focus Alpha speakers at a dealer and some decent headphones.
Thank you for your sharing your experience and some great advice there.
All I can do now is keep trying my best and hopefully things will improve a lot.
The trouble now is Mark that at 67 ,I do not have another 50 years left.
I will have to get a move on ;D


All the best
John

Ps The good news is that the Rolling Stones are still going strong!!! ::)  "There's hope yet" :P :-\ :)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 10:12:52 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: I am In half turmoil now
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2018, 10:47:40 AM »
I think john once you find a dealer who is willing to understand your setup and needs (where I am conscious of not suggesting too much here as I can not see or understand your setup completely) instead where some retailer's can sometimes only be interested in moving boxes... then expensive mistakes can be avoided...so perhaps avoid a busy day at the retailer and catch them on a quiet day so they can give you the time you need and deserve considering your efforts John (if I was round the corner i would come and help)...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 02:32:37 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: I am In half turmoil now
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2018, 02:43:28 PM »
Hi Tommy
well I have  delved and had a good look around
I looked all over the Internet about the best monitor speakers and Focus Alpha comes out tops every time with people.
A lot of people went for the Focus Alpa 65 and purchased a sub bass speaker and was not satisfied as the subs messed with the speakers .
So  they sent back the speakers and sub and exchanged them for focal Alpha 50s which have lots of all round  bass mid and treble and reporting  that you hear things that you never heard before in the mix
They would be perfect for nearfield monitoring in my room. Front ported as well.  My room is pretty good for sound as carpeted and brick built walls . I have attached a picture of my setup in room and area I sit in.
On opposite wall out of view is another computer for general internet use.
What you make of all the junk I have I do not know ;D ::)
I had a lead come yesterday as i linked up the behringer headphone amp which i purchased years ago  and It does make a lot of difference to my AKG 301 extras which i got In 2009.They say they have a flat response and also semi open backed. Good or bad ,I am not the expert on tha , but they sound clearer and more presence.
With the door closed I do not get any echo's which is a plus.
So I am thinking of getting those Focus Alpha 50s tomorrow as Gear For music up north of England are selling them at £187 a piece and they are over £220 in other places.
six year guarantee for an extra £10.
Seems a great deal.
Well I do not know what you make of  this, but here goes!! ;D :-X
I am getting shot of those Tapco S2's
Do you have to get a micro phone and use pink noise to tune the speakers in to your room.
Would not your ears do a better job to get the best triangle to sit in???
That Sonar works seem expensive though for a one off tune


All the best
John

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« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 02:58:28 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Toril S

Re: nearly out of turmoil now
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2018, 03:32:59 PM »
Nice setup! I like the hat too😀
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: nearly out of turmoil now
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2018, 03:48:04 PM »
 I don't think you will be disappointed with the focal's John I was very surprised with my friends pair and that's considering my own monitors cost many times more...they realy do a good job... as for the Sonarworks yes it's a bit pricey but it is active in your DAW and being used all the time so you must remember that you need to bypass the plugin each time you are exporting audio from your DAW. Otherwise the correction will be applied to your master bus mixdown. Note that the plugin is meant to calibrate your speakers and room just like acoustic treatment would. Failing to bypass the effect would mean adding the sonic anomalies of your system to the rendered audio.. the Sonarworks website blog covers all this...but you could probably do with a little acoustic treatment (acoustic foam panels) in your room looking at the photo John with or without Sonarworks... I look forward to here how you get on with the new monitors and don't forget some burn/running in time with the focal's as this is recommended...playing some music all day for about a week (not blasting) should do the job...
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 04:46:14 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: nearly out of turmoil now
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2018, 04:10:40 PM »
John you can download a free trial of Sonarworks ref 4 but you do need there calibration microphone with its own serial number which have been individually calibrated....ask a retailer to loan you a demo Mic for that purpose so at least you can try before you buy...well worth ago John.... if you can not find a demo Mic from somewhere specifically for this software (you could get intouch with the company directly for help) PM me and we can sort something out for you if you get stuck . P.s. the Focal Alpha 50s  should be fine looking at your photo as
a nearfield 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 05:57:30 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: nearly out of turmoil now
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2018, 07:23:17 PM »
Hi Tommy
One thing that is puzzling me with those Focus alpha monitors .
How do you adjust the volume on them when tuning in .????
I have looked at a spl meter and use pink noise to set them up, No volume knob!! :o ::) :P ;D
How do these things get power up .Is it down to the dial on the Genos and the monitors are full on or something???
Obviously I am missing a brick here short of a building set. Or I am One

Also I have seen the connections that are balanced leads ,but they look like a microphone socket one end which goes into the speaker and a jack the other end.
On all the photos I have seen it looks like a stereo jack not a mono one.
Can you put me right on this.


all the best
JOhn :)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 07:51:47 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: nearly out of turmoil now
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2018, 08:02:18 PM »
Ok ... monitor output from the back of your Focusrite to your Focal's then to help and make things easy for you I would get a Tc Electroinc Level Pilot which are £70 you could push for a deal when you purchues the Focals... this passive volume sits between your monitors inputs and your Focusrite monitor outputs....the lead you will need is TRS jack to XLR male... your Genos master volume is interdependent of the monitors and is only set inline with your audio interface and DAW for the correct levels.... the two black rings on the TRS jack end indicate that the cable is a balanced cable at both ends which you need (I'm guessing your Focusrite is a balanced output ?)

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 08:23:37 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: nearly out of turmoil now
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2018, 08:24:27 PM »
Hi Tommy
You will have to be patient with me a little as my head is going around.
At the moment My monitors are plugged into the Genos, So output of Genos to Monitors
I then have AUX out to IN of the focusrite and and OUT of focusrite back to AUX IN of Genos, then usb to computer which is my loop.
What is this passive thing and Is It necessary expense??
I would like to know how you would tune these in without a volume knob on each speaker.
I did not want to bother you or put you through this ,but I have looked all over and cannot find Info on this.
Also the end of the jack looks like a stereo  and not mono for each speaker.

I also do not use the focusrite all the time and just do midi editing between Genos and Cubase.
So the level pilot is a volume knob basically.
I am a little worried here as yes ,I have ordered some Focus Alpha 50s today and level pilots mean more flippin wires and gadgets :o
I am a little confused here!!


All the best
john :)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 08:36:43 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: nearly out of turmoil now
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2018, 08:47:37 PM »
No bother...so this is how you should be connected and your Focusrite has balanced inputs and outputs so this means that the 3 mental contact between the 2 black rings on the TRS jack will match the other 3 mental pins on the other XLR end...so the 3rd contact in the cable indicates you have a balanced cable which you need... so .... Genos to your Di then into your inputs (L/R) at the back of the Focusrite then the 1st pair of outputs (L/R) to your monitors with the TC level pilot inbetween and your 2nd outputs (L/R) to your DXR's with balanced cables through out ...that's one way to do it... when you want to just play through your Dxr10s use you Genos master volume

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« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 08:49:40 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: nearly out of turmoil now
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2018, 08:51:30 PM »
Hi Tommy
just quickly
This is a poor graphic version of my set up

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Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: nearly out of turmoil now
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2018, 08:58:14 PM »
Oops....your have a monitor volume control on the Focusrite for output 1 and 2 so you DO NOT NEED the Tc level pilot my mistake sorry....so this Focusrite monitor volume knob will control your focal's volume output + the DXR....I'll check your drawing one moment......
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 08:59:28 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: nearly out of turmoil now
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2018, 09:04:12 PM »
.hi Tommy
Waiting to change the script!! ;D

All the best
John :)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 09:06:39 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox