Author Topic: Genos Test Number Four.  (Read 1491 times)

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Offline Pianoman

Genos Test Number Four.
« on: April 16, 2018, 05:21:22 AM »
Greetings to all.

I have been busy gigging almost daily since the 27th of March and haven't been able to
update you on my Genos experience.

I popped into the music store on Friday the 13th to give the Genos another shot for an
hour or so.

There were some new styles that I liked and that could be quite useful for what I have in
mind. And the reworked styles sounded better thought out and balanced.

My focus is always on the styles, as I always use my Kawai MP11 Stage Piano  whenever
I gig.

I cannot picture myself ever using the Genos pianos in a live setting.

Maybe for home practice, since I leave the Stage Piano in the car once
I start my gigging season.

For example, in all the years that I have owned a T3, I have never once used any of it's
pianos. They just didn't cut it for me.

I have the same opinion about the pianos on the Genos, even though the CFX did sound
nicer than the Concert Grand of my T3.

Part of the problem obviously, is the keybed. I have played the Piano for at least 40 years,
and a keyboard, in tandem with a piano, for just 8 of those years.

When I decided to buy my current Stage Piano in 2014, I first considered buying a Yamaha
CP4 Stage Piano, and had the opportunity to test The CP4, the Roland RD 800, and finally the
Kawai MP11, all in different music stores.

I liked the piano samples on all 3 Pianos, especially the modeled samples of the Roland.
But I eventually bought the Kawai, for it's keybed, 256 note polyphony, and presence,
even though it weighed 32 kilograms and only had 40 voices.

I have only used 1 Acoustic Piano voice, (the Concert Grand) and I Fender Rhodes type of EP,
on the Kawai since I bought it in 2014.

The Roland had 1113 voices, the Yamaha had 433, and had I bought
either one of them, I probably would also have used just 1 Acoustic Piano voice, and 1 Fender
Rhodes type of  EP too. Despite the hundreds of available voices.

That would be the sound that represents me, and the bedrock of my performance,
regardless of which keyboard I use, or if I use a keyboard at all.

You must be wondering by now what this has to do with the Genos.

Well, I don't believe that I, or anybody else, will use the thousands of voices on
today's keyboards.

Everyone will choose a few voices that they like, and stick with those.

I have listened to as many right hand voices as I could in the limited time that I
had with the Genos on Friday.

Even though I noticed an improvement in sound quality over my T3, my impression is
that the thinness of right hand voices on Yamaha arrangers still remains.

Like on my T3, I had to simultaneously use 3 right hand Guitar or Saxophone voices,
to get the fat sound I was looking for.

This is a phenomenon that doesn't seem to exist in other arranger brands.

I have a 1995 Roland G800 in my store room that, in my opinion, had a better and fatter
Stratocaster sample than the one on my T3.

Maybe it's all due to the sound modeling technology that Roland uses.

I wish I could join the groupthink here and give effusive praise to the Revo! Drums, but
they had a kind of dullness to them, and in some cases I preferred the brightness of the
Tyros drums.

Apparently, the Genos that I'm trying out has been sitting in the music store since mid
January and nobody there had the courtesy of letting me know.

He wasn't willing to let me take it home for the weekend for a full try out either.

Even though I have bought every piece of gear that I own, apart from my Tyros bag
and Piano bag, from his store.

He's selling it for 3590 now, while his assistant quoted 3400 a week ago.
So I told him that I'll wait till July.

I predict that it'll still be sitting there, and the price will probably have come
down again. I will buy when it hits 3200.

No hurry and no worries.

Best Regards.
Abby.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 01:14:04 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 06:01:03 AM »
Great review, Abby.

Quote
I wish I could join the groupthink here and give effusive praise to the Revo! Drums, but
they had a kind of dullness to them, and in some cases I preferred the brightness of the
Tyros drums.

I submit there's something wrong with the system in the music store. To be blunt - the Genos drums outclass all Tyros drums 100 to 1. They are "in your face" without being loud. I'd switch music stores! It doesn't sound like they try to optimize instrument sounds. I've spent time working the Genos into my sound mix, and the results simply kill all my former Tyros 5 sounds. There's no comparison. If I'm getting that kind of result, well...you know the answer to that :).

Remember that all Yamaha keyboards come out of the factory with a very flat sound setup. You must customize the sound to whatever sound system you're using. I'm sure you have very good gear, being a pro gigging musician. I would say the only thing the Genos doesn't have that you enjoy now is, a weighted keybed.

Thanks for the review, Abby :).
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 
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Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 06:47:34 AM »
You're most welcome Lee.

It's early days with my Genos testing but I had promised to update people
about my experiences and expectations.

My dealer surprised me though.
He owns the franchise here for the store, but it's part of a wider chain of stores.

I have able in the past to borrow an instrument for live testing with the rest of my gear,
on the understanding of "you scratch it, you own it."

I usually ended up buying the instrument anyway.

I have spent at least 15,000 Euros over the years in this store.

He hasn't been able to sell the Genos,and it has been sitting in the store since 10 weeks.
I'm probably the only one who has shown any interest here.

In fact I'm the one who had been calling their main dealership in Palma De Mallorca
since November, asking them to send over a Genos.

I am sure it'll still be there in July.

Anyway, there is no problem with me going the store and testing it to my heart's content
over there.

My gig season is starting to intensify now, and in another two weeks I will hardly have time for
anything other than gigging, eating, and sleeping.

Everyday for the next six months.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 07:00:57 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline soryt

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 07:08:07 AM »
Genos suits a lot of players ,If you prefer your piano for your performances and you use the Yamaha purely for the arranger function,
it seems more convenient for me to think of an arranger module like the new Ketron SD90.
Is also much better on stage when you do not hide behind your instruments

Soryt  :)

Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 07:37:57 AM »
That is not a bad idea Soryt.

I have actually thought of it when I heard this demo by Pino, using an SD40.

https://app.box.com/s/npuempch5y14ineqz5ijdv7ytrpn4say

This is on page 2 of the thread about a 61 key Genos.

But I  need to play 2 keyboards. It's how I work now.

I need the Piano for piano work, and the keyboard for Brass, Guitar and
Saxophone solos. I play both instruments Simultaneously

My gig season has already started and is intensifying by the day.
It's not good to change Horses midstream anyway.

Best Regards.
Abby.

« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 11:41:43 PM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline hans1966

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 02:19:23 PM »
Hello Pianist, I have seen your videos and I liked your versatility when interposing your piano simultaneously with your T3, you are a master of entertainment. My question is: how do you travel to the different hotels on the island with so many kilos of weight in equipment? I say this because I have a smaller team than yours I have already begun to suffer from the column when trying to load my Yamaha DXR10 cab. luckily, this was when I had finished a mass and I was preparing to deposit my cabin in the car. I move a lot singing masses, funeral honors and serenades of the room, and sometimes you have to hurry from one place to another, to cover an event, or replace another fellow musician. Sometimes there are contracts scheduled, but most of the time they always come out unexpectedly and sometimes you have just enough time to take a quick shower, get dressed and run off to fulfill your commitment. in that run that runs from one side to another is where I have injured my column (Lumbago) and I had to be at rest for several days (a week or so) unable to work, not even being able to touch my PSR S970 to study . said this I would like to know what advice you can give me for handling, loading and / or downloading my equipment. I thank you in advance for your kind response. greetings    Hans
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 02:21:22 PM by hans1966 »
 

Offline MarcusAhlback

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 02:37:36 PM »
...

But I  need to play 2 keyboards. It's how I work now.

I need the Piano for piano work, and the keyboard for Brass, Guitar and
Saxophone solos. I play both instruments Simultaneously
...

Hi Abby.
I use my rig in a similar way, the pianosounds on my piano and evrything else (styles and other voices) on the arranger (PSR-S770)
However there is one setting I can't figure out how to do. Let's say I have a saxophone sound on the right on my PSR, to be able to play some solos or riffs on that. But I don't want the saxophone to "double" what I play in my piano. So basically I only want the "backing/style"-part of the PSR to react to incoming MIDI, not the "solo"-part.
Have you found a way to do that?

Kind regards Marcus
Yamaha PSR-S770
Casio PX5-s
 

Offline pjd

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 09:48:02 PM »
For example, in all the years that I have owned a T3, I have never once used any of it's
pianos. They just didn't cut it for me.

I have the same opinion about the pianos on the Genos, even though the CFX did sound
relatively better than the Concert Grand of my T3.

Part of the problem obviously, is the keybed.

Hi Abby --

Your comments rang true. I just couldn't abide playing acoustic or electric piano on the S950. The Genos is better and I feel more comfortable playing EP on the Genos action. Acoustic piano is still leaving me a little cold on that action. Big difference between the Genos and the Yamaha G2 grand at the church...

Hope everything is going well for you -- pj
 

Offline keynote

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2018, 10:58:24 PM »
Nothing like a fully weighted, hammer action keybed for playing acoustic piano sounds that's for sure. I wish Yamaha would produce a fully weighted 88 key high-end arranger. If the keyboard weighed less than 40 lbs. (a goal Yamaha could achieve no doubt) a lot of gigging musicians would embrace it. Home hobbyists would probably be interested in a fully weighted 88 key high-end arranger too. There is definitely a market for one I would think.

Having said that I think the Genos' semi-weighted keybed is a relatively good trade-off and using a sustain pedal with the acoustic grand voices adds to the expressiveness you can achieve. But a fully weighted alternative would be great too for those who primarily play acoustic piano. So if a Yamaha representative reads this thread hopefully he or she will relay this information to Yamaha central. For a long time nobody thought Yamaha would make a 76 key high-end arranger ever again. Well, welcome to Genos! Now 88 keys is the next step. It's at least worth exploring anyway. I think a fully weighted 88 key high-end arranger would sell quite well actually. But only if Yamaha was able to keep it fairly lightweight for easy portability. Speaking for myself I would seriously consider such an option especially if the price was competitive. Maybe Genos 2 = 61/76/88? In other words the same as the Montage series? We'll see. Personally I think it would garner a lot of attention and praise from the keyboard community. I know it would make Pino happy.  8)

Mike
 

Offline sugarplumsss

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 11:07:50 PM »
Yes, that piano issue. I hear you on that.  I have found speaker quality, speaker position, number of speakers, and just plain getting used to a difficult to deal with , keyboard bed, is the only solution.
I respect your duo, Genos/ Kawai solution though.
I use T4 as a drum machine. Playing my own acmp and bass. MIDI songs are my latest interest. If anyone wishes to share knowledge on MIDI songs let me know.
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 12:50:21 AM »
Hello Pianist, I have seen your videos and I liked your versatility when interposing your piano simultaneously with your T3, you are a master of entertainment. My question is: how do you travel to the different hotels on the island with so many kilos of weight in equipment? I say this because I have a smaller team than yours I have already begun to suffer from the column when trying to load my Yamaha DXR10 cab. luckily, this was when I had finished a mass and I was preparing to deposit my cabin in the car. I move a lot singing masses, funeral honors and serenades of the room, and sometimes you have to hurry from one place to another, to cover an event, or replace another fellow musician. Sometimes there are contracts scheduled, but most of the time they always come out unexpectedly and sometimes you have just enough time to take a quick shower, get dressed and run off to fulfill your commitment. in that run that runs from one side to another is where I have injured my column (Lumbago) and I had to be at rest for several days (a week or so) unable to work, not even being able to touch my PSR S970 to study . said this I would like to know what advice you can give me for handling, loading and / or downloading my equipment. I thank you in advance for your kind response. greetings    Hans



My back is killing me too, because I was given half an hour to evacuate my gear from a
venue on Saturday.

I stopped playing at 23.30 Hrs, and the hotel bar had to close at 24.00 Hrs.
This was highly unusual and I have complained to the management.

I have been informed that I may now stop at 23.00 Hrs.



My Advice:

Keep your back straight as much as possible, bend the knees as far as you can when lifting,
and never bend your back till it takes a bow shaped posture.

We all play our gigs in different ways, with different needs and different amounts of
equipment.

I have my Stage Piano, Tyros Keyboard, Powered mixer, Keyboard Bench,
Microphone stand, Speaker stands, 2 JBL Speakers, A 42 Kilo Subwoofer, A bag for
cables and accessories that weighs at least 20 kilos, a K&M 18950 Piano stand that's
at least 10 kilos, the Keyboard bags themselves etc, it all comes to around 185 kilos.

Considering that I carry all this gear, that it takes at least an hour to unload from the car
and set up, and the fact that I play nonstop for 3 to 4 hours without a break, I only accept
one gig per day.

It is better to do just one gig a day and live to fight another day.

Arrive early so that you can do all your setting up in a relaxed way instead of rushing.

When you rush you may be likely to make mistakes, then one wrong move may put
you out of action for several days.

Avoid alcohol and drink plenty of water.
Alcohol, contrary to popular thinking, is a musician's worst enemy.
And it will dehydrates you.

Water will hydrate your muscles and tendons, reducing the risk of cramps and tendonitis,
as well as increase your alertness when playing, aside from countless other benefits.

Never move from a situation of  prolonged inactivity to sudden frenetic activity.

That's what I do anyway.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 01:06:13 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 
The following users thanked this post: hans1966

Offline DonM

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 01:00:29 AM »
Just a thought or two...
I was never a piano player and use a LOT of guitar for lead voices, so the lighter touch the better for me.  In fact fully weighted keys would be a deal-breaker for me as my wrists have developed some ligament problems over the years.
Also, I think the sound of the piano makes little difference in a full mix, and I prefer the Yamaha piano sounds to most of the other companies' samples.  Because they seem to cut through the mix better.  I have played arrangers by Yamaha, Korg, Ketron, Roland and Technics, and nobody yet as come up and told me they didn't like the piano sound, although I agree some were pretty bad!  I hated the one on Roland E series, but no one noticed, at least consciously.  :)
For a while I used a second keyboard for piano and organ sounds.  It was a Casio 76 note, I forget the model, but it sounded great to me.  I just prefer to use on keyboard or I would still be using it.
I remember with the early arrangers, I used a Yamaha tone module for piano sounds.  It was midied to my second keyboard, which was a DX7, and I could bring it in or out with a volume pedal as needed.
As Abby said, we all do things differently and have different needs/desires!
DonM
 

Online travlin-easy

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 01:14:51 AM »
I can assure you that most, full-time, gigging musicians would NOT embrace a 40-plus pound arranger keyboard. Additionally, they would NOT embrace fully weighted, hammer action keys. Having spent 50 years on stage, the first 20 performing with a guitar, and the final 30 years with an arranger keyboard, your body quickly rebels when you try hefting all that gear on stage, then tearing it down at the end of the night. As for the keys, well, at the end of a 4 hour performance, 7 days a week, tell me how your hands feel. I did a grand piano job using a Steinway Grand, which sounded incredible. At the end of the night, I was barely able to hold my car keys.

I know a half dozen Peabody Institute trained pianist, all of which switched to performing with an arranger keyboard. Each and every one of them loves the lightweight keys of their PSR and Tyros keyboards. They no longer have to soak their hands in hot water when they get home from a 4hour job.

Now, there was a time when I too performed with two keyboards, one a 51-pound PSR-5700, which had the absolute best piano and vibes sounds of any keyboard ever. It sat on the bottom tier of a three tier stand. On the second tier, I had a PSR-500, while the top tier held my mixer and vocal processor. My PA back then consisted of a 35-pound Peavey 600 powered mixer, and a pair of Peavey SP5 15-inch passive speakers mounted on heavy-duty poles. My set up time took about 40 minutes or more and three trips to the van with a refrigerator dolly loaded to capacity.

The system sounded great, weighed hundreds of pounds, and when my popularity increased as a result of some very aggressive self promotion, I soon found that I was having a great deal of physical difficulty setting up and tearing down two to three times a day, seven days a week. I had to make some drastic changes, but still retain the sound quality. This required a lot of research on my part.

My first move was to find a lightweight keyboard stand that would set up in seconds. I still needed two tiers, but the top tier was reserved for a custom console that I designed. The console was initially constructed of lexan, but I later redid it in 1/8-inch thick aluminum. The lexan model developed some stress cracks after a few months of use. The console held all the power supplies, vocal processor, and small PC that contained my lyrics and midi files. Additionally, the front of the console became a lighted sign, while on the back of the console, a strip light provided a soft light over the entire keyboard for when I performed in darkened rooms. It also held my surge protector which has a ground fault indicator. Everything remains plugged in at one end, and connected to the surge protector. Only the plugs that go into the keyboard were unplugged during teardown. This alone reduced setup time by a huge margin.

I then moved to a new, lighter weight arranger keyboard with a built in vocal processor - the PSR-2000. I quickly realized that the 2000s piano sounds were not nearly as good as the 7500, but with a bit of tweaking and tuning, I could get a more robust sound and the audiences really didn't know the difference. Now I had a 23-pound arranger keyboard instead of packing around that 51-pound monster.

The next step was to lighten the sound system, which I did by switching from Peavey to a pair pf Barbetta Sona 32SCs which only weighed 32 pounds each, instead of the 72-pounds that the Peavies weighed. Those Barbettas were later replaced with the Bose L1-PAS, which was later replaced with the 23-pound Bose L1 Compacts.

Just prior to my retirement, I was able to set up my entire rig in just under 7 minutes, which made life a lot easier as my health began to fail. My audiences had no idea of my health issues, and they were shocked when I announced my retirement.

As for the risk of performing with a single keyboard, in more than 30 years of owning arranger keyboards and thousands of performances, I never experienced a complete keyboard failure. If I had, I would have been able to get through the job using my PC and midi files, then when I got home, I had a fully prepared spare keyboard ready to go to work with. This is a must for anyone that is a full time entertainer and makes their living in this industry.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline sugarplumsss

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 01:41:32 AM »
RE: Piano sounds we dislike, versus the audience

To me, audiences are like little children. The gulf between my sensitivity and their sensitivity to music and piano sounds could fill the Grand Canyon.

I have noted in my 50 year professional career... whenever I would change an instrument, a reed on a sax, a string on a bass, a pickup, an amp, a speaker, weighted to non weighted action for pianos, EQ box, a mic,
The GUYS in the band seldom noticed a thing! 
Now multiply that fact, that what you the performer perceive and what your band mates perceive, is nothing compared to how little the audience, 20- 50 feet away perceive . Not to mention their untrained ears.

BUT    Always a But.

The audiences ARE sensitive to some things.
I think Gary is a good source for input on this point.
But for my part:
Song selection
Little or no delay between songs
Song selection that is well matched to the mood of the crowd.
Being too loud or too soft.
Main appeal should be towards the females and their tastes, as opposed to the men. Women rule here.
BEING DANCEABLE , however you manage that.

Gary, what would you add? :)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 01:44:11 AM by sugarplumsss »
I use T4 as a drum machine. Playing my own acmp and bass. MIDI songs are my latest interest. If anyone wishes to share knowledge on MIDI songs let me know.
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2018, 01:44:06 AM »
Hi Abby.
I use my rig in a similar way, the pianosounds on my piano and evrything else (styles and other voices) on the arranger (PSR-S770)
However there is one setting I can't figure out how to do. Let's say I have a saxophone sound on the right on my PSR, to be able to play some solos or riffs on that. But I don't want the saxophone to "double" what I play in my piano. So basically I only want the "backing/style"-part of the PSR to react to incoming MIDI, not the "solo"-part.
Have you found a way to do that?

Kind regards Marcus



Hello Marcus.

The Stage Piano that I use is just for my Piano voices.

I've used the on board Pad layer sounds together with the Rhodes sometimes, like
the intro on Queen's "I Want To Break Free" in my videos, but very rarely.

The Pad is part of the Kawai's 40 on board sounds, which are divided into 4 Groups.

Which are Acoustic Pianos, Electric Pianos, Strings and Pads, and Other, which include
the usual Marimba, Bass, Bass with Cymbal,Clavinets, Xylophone etc, for a total
of 40 voices.

I'm a Dinosaur and have never ever Midi-ed two instruments together.

I do all my Guitar, Saxophone, Brass and other work on the T3, along with the
Styles.

I'm assuming here that I've understood your question correctly.

Best Regards.
Abby.
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 
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Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2018, 02:10:22 AM »
As for the keys, well, at the end of a 4 hour performance, 7 days a week, tell me how your hands feel. I did a grand piano job using a Steinway Grand, which sounded incredible. At the end of the night, I was barely able to hold my car keys.

They no longer have to soak their hands in hot water when they get home from a 4hour job.

Good luck,

Gary 8)

I like this comment Gary.😀😀😀

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 02:14:18 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2018, 02:12:18 AM »

The audiences ARE sensitive to some things.
I think Gary is a good source for input on this point.
But for my part:
Song selection
Little or no delay between songs
Song selection that is well matched to the mood of the crowd.
Being too loud or too soft.
Main appeal should be towards the females and their tastes, as opposed to the men. Women rule here.
BEING DANCEABLE , however you manage that.

Gary, what would you add? :)


Nothing to add. That's about it.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 02:13:48 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Online travlin-easy

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2018, 02:17:38 AM »
RE: Piano sounds we dislike, versus the audience

To me, audiences are like little children. The gulf between my sensitivity and their sensitivity to music and piano sounds could fill the Grand Canyon.

I have noted in my 50 year professional career... whenever I would change an instrument, a reed on a sax, a string on a bass, a pickup, an amp, a speaker, weighted to non weighted action for pianos, EQ box, a mic,
The GUYS in the band seldom noticed a thing! 
Now multiply that fact, that what you the performer perceive and what your band mates perceive, is nothing compared to how little the audience, 20- 50 feet away perceive . Not to mention their untrained ears.

BUT    Always a But.

The audiences ARE sensitive to some things.
I think Gary is a good source for input on this point.
But for my part:
Song selection
Little or no delay between songs
Song selection that is well matched to the mood of the crowd.
Being too loud or too soft.
Main appeal should be towards the females and their tastes, as opposed to the men. Women rule here.
BEING DANCEABLE , however you manage that.

Gary, what would you add? :)

Nothing  to add. Words to live by.

Gary
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2018, 02:57:14 AM »
I think audiences are sensitive to you doing well what you are there to do. Being danceable - yes if that is your purpose but not if you are there to play for a wedding ceremony, provide background music in a lounge or back a cabaret vocalist. And there is no escaping that no matter how organized you are, or how well you play, a good vocalist trumps everything.
Mike
 
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Offline hans1966

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2018, 03:04:21 AM »


My back is killing me too, because I was given half an hour to evacuate my gear from a
venue on Saturday.

I stopped playing at 23.30 Hrs, and the hotel bar had to close at 24.00 Hrs.
This was highly unusual and I have complained to the management.

I have been informed that I may now stop at 23.00 Hrs.



My Advice:

Keep your back straight as much as possible, bend the knees as far as you can when lifting,
and never bend your back till it takes a bow shaped posture.

We all play our gigs in different ways, with different needs and different amounts of
equipment.

I have my Stage Piano, Tyros Keyboard, Powered mixer, Keyboard Bench,
Microphone stand, Speaker stands, 2 JBL Speakers, A 42 Kilo Subwoofer, A bag for
cables and accessories that weighs at least 20 kilos, a K&M 18950 Piano stand that's
at least 10 kilos, the Keyboard bags themselves etc, it all comes to around 185 kilos.

Considering that I carry all this gear, that it takes at least an hour to unload from the car
and set up, and the fact that I play nonstop for 3 to 4 hours without a break, I only accept
one gig per day.

It is better to do just one gig a day and live to fight another day.

Arrive early so that you can do all your setting up in a relaxed way instead of rushing.

When you rush you may be likely to make mistakes, then one wrong move may put
you out of action for several days.

Avoid alcohol and drink plenty of water.
Alcohol, contrary to popular thinking, is a musician's worst enemy.
And it will dehydrates you.

Water will hydrate your muscles and tendons, reducing the risk of cramps and tendonitis,
as well as increase your alertness when playing, aside from countless other benefits.

Never move from a situation of  prolonged inactivity to sudden frenetic activity.

That's what I do anyway.

Best Regards.
Abby.


Hi Abby, thank you very much for the advice, your experience is very important for me. On the other hand I do not drink alcohol, I do not like it because it burns the vocal cords, from time to time I drink a soft drink or preferably water. What you say is true you have to drink a lot of water to keep yourself hydrated. greetings Hans
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2018, 04:08:16 AM »
Abby, I get tired just reading how you must lift so much heavy gear :)!

My advice is to start replacing one piece at a time (as budget permits) and dump the heavy gear. These manufacturers who still think gear must be heavy to sound good are living in a dream world and are slowly being left behind by those companies with the foresight, years ago, to realize that those who can afford good gear - can't lift the stuff!! JBL, Electrovoice, Peavy, Yorkville...all make great stuff but it's heavier than a boat anchor. Just my two cents worth ;).

My heaviest piece of gear is my homemade sub, weighting in at 40 pounds. It has a 15 inch bass driver, 650 watts output, 35 Hz to 1,000 Hz response (filtered at 100 Hz), and will shake glass given the opportunity.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline sugarplumsss

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2018, 06:57:17 AM »
I think audiences are sensitive to you doing well what you are there to do. Being danceable - yes if that is your purpose but not if you are there to play for a wedding ceremony, provide background music in a lounge or back a cabaret vocalist. And there is no escaping that no matter how organized you are, or how well you play, a good vocalist trumps everything.
Mike

OT   I have done enough weddings, to ask, how does the tyros help you do a wedding ceremony?  Here Comes the Bride.  and all the rest of it?

Also done enough wedding ceremonies to say.. I did one, where I don't recall meeting the bride. So I was fully reliant on the person designated to tell me when to commence the "Here Comes the Bride" part, after playing the music just prior.
Well, of course, I was given a bad signal and played HCTB prematurely!!!   Ugh, only one time for that sort of embarrassing thing!

Yes, singers singers and more singers. I have backed a few in my time. They are the life of the party... hopefully. 
They are the connective tissue between the band and the audience. It is rough going ( difficult but not impossible ) to do a gig without a singer, when the audience kind of associates a band with a singer. That is something this community understands.  But I played a birthday party for 2 twin one year olds yesterday, without benefit of singing! 
I used my Yamaha MIDI songs.. and though not perfect, it got me and the sax man ( the grand father of the twins ) through the 4 hour gig. We were a duo.
I use T4 as a drum machine. Playing my own acmp and bass. MIDI songs are my latest interest. If anyone wishes to share knowledge on MIDI songs let me know.
 

Offline MarcusAhlback

Re: Genos Test Number Four.
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2018, 09:35:58 PM »
Thank you for your comprehensive answer Abby!

Unfortunately I was now more looking for advice on MIDI-setup, so I guess I have to keep looking for that.

Kind regards Marcus.
Yamaha PSR-S770
Casio PX5-s