Topic: COPYRIGHTS PROTECTION USING GENOS STYLES

[Osvaldo De Souza]

1st April 2018

Good morning and wish you all a HAPPY EASTER

If I sequence or compose a song using GENOS STYLES, are some of the styles under copyright protection??

For example the local dealer of Yamaha from where I purchased the GENOS keyboard last week informed me of the following:

QUOTE

From what Yamaha told me, all their styles are free to use for composition, but they require “Thanks to Yamaha” if you do use any.
 
*however* since styles are based on existing songs, if you use a song’s style to make another song too similar to that original song, then you could get sued by the original songwriter instead of by Yamaha. No amount of rights approval from Yamaha would prevent that.

80’s Analog ballad is Phil Collin’s “In the Air tonight”’;

80’s Power Rock is Bon Jovi’s “Living on a Prayer”

Most tango styles are more generic (not based off a specific song), so yes, they should be fine 

UNQUOTE

What are your thoughts on this matter?

Thanks and regards
Oz

[Gunnar Jonny]

1st April 2018

[tyrosman]

 

[EileenL]

Nice One.

[markstyles]

I'm not thanking anyone.. I paid a lot of money for the instrument, that's thanks enough..  Back 20 years ago, a number of library and patch companies, tried to insist the same.. 

You can use the patches as you see fit, you do not have the right to repackage and sell them.. All music and aspects of music are built off something previous.
What if Bach's great, great, great, great grandchildren tries to sue for the rights of one to use 12 tone scales..

What if Con Edison, insisted we thank them on music released using electricity?

If Yamaha wants to pay me to endorse and mention their products, I'd be glad to do that, but I need $$$$..

[rodrigo.b]

Well, I have to say thanks to Yamaha, specially for the fantastic Super Articulation Harmonica voice that doesn't exist on the PSR S970, Also thanks for the additional memory to load audio styles, with 0 audio style packs avalible for PSR S970, my music has no borders, so I just have to hear the packs and play my dream!

[DrakeM]

So, what you do is swap out the yamaha parts of the styles and revoice them, then add a new riff or two of your own to the style and create your own song specific style.

Then go to YouTube and post your song that sounds spot on to the Original song you hear on the radio ... and BINGO ... YouTube sends you an email saying your video sounds too close to the Original Song per BMI, Sony or some other governing outfit. You can't win.

Most of the tunes I posted that I created using my S950 keyboard, I received such a notice from YouTube.

[EileenL]

Yes I think a few people missed the point of this post.

[jerryghr]

April Fool!!

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Joe H]

April Fool!!

LOL

Joe H

[Ingar]

1st April 2018

Good morning and wish you all a HAPPY EASTER

If I sequence or compose a song using GENOS STYLES, are some of the styles under copyright protection??

For example the local dealer of Yamaha from where I purchased the GENOS keyboard last week informed me of the following:

QUOTE

From what Yamaha told me, all their styles are free to use for composition, but they require “Thanks to Yamaha” if you do use any.
 
*however* since styles are based on existing songs, if you use a song’s style to make another song too similar to that original song, then you could get sued by the original songwriter instead of by Yamaha. No amount of rights approval from Yamaha would prevent that.

80’s Analog ballad is Phil Collin’s “In the Air tonight”’;

80’s Power Rock is Bon Jovi’s “Living on a Prayer”

Most tango styles are more generic (not based off a specific song), so yes, they should be fine 

UNQUOTE

What are your thoughts on this matter?

Thanks and regards
Oz

Thank you for a nice one april fool`s day...

[Stijn]

Good one!

But, and this is no joke, people who bought the Tyros 2 and used the Music Finder saw that the song names were scrambled.
You would find titles like:  Be it let, Wonderful what a world, Easy come words, Chapel is crying....
See pictures


Stijn


[attachment deleted by admin]

[Joe H]

Yamaha have lawyers that know rules and know where to draw the line. That's why they don't stop users from sharing their remixed style files. And Yamaha make styles that are song specific, but can't use the actual song title for obvious reasons of copyright infringement.

Joe H

[andyg]

I think Yamaha were having more than a bit of a laugh with us. Some of the titles in the screenshot aren't even copyright so didn't need to be scrambled. Greensleeves, Moonlight Sonata and Morning Mood, for example. And there were always a few that were true song titles but remained unscrambled.

I'd always decrypt a few in my reviews for Keyboard Player Magazine, and as soon as I'd done that, they'd change them or come up with new titles!

[SeaGtGruff]

And Yamaha make styles that are song specific, but can't use the actual song title for obvious reasons of copyright infringement.

Actually, I've read that song titles per se aren't protected by copyright, hence it's legal for 100 different songwriters to write 100 completely different songs using the exact same song title. (I suppose the songwriter could try to protect a unique song title as a registered trademark or whatever, but that's another matter.) So generally speaking there shouldn't be any reason why Yamaha can't use actual song titles for their styles and Music Database/Music Finder entries.

However, if Yamaha were to use actual song titles, presumably accompanied by the associated artist's or songwriter's name, it would imply that the style is a copy of an existing copyrighted song, which would be infringement. And even if the Main and Fill In sections of the style are just rhythms, chords, and phrases that don't even resemble said song except when the style is played using the song's specific chord progressions, there is also the matter of the Intro and Ending sections which aren't affected by the chord progressions that the player is using. I think that's the real reason Yamaha doesn't use the actual titles of copyrighted songs (unless they have permission from the copyright holder)-- not the song titles per se, but the stated or implied association of said titles with copyrighted songs, as opposed to stating or implying that the styles are wholly unique and original creations not associated with any copyrighted songs despite their titles.

Oh no, now my head hurts!

[Joe H]

I think speculating about copyright issues is a can of worms at best.  Even the lawyers disagree about certain issues.  It takes a long time and is very expensive when these kind of arguments get into the courts.

It's complicated and the law is open to "interpretation".  I was at a public planning commission hearing and the planning commissioners were in a state of confusion over a specific issue.  the County Attorney stepped up to the microphone and began his commentary with these words
"I could argue this either way... depending on whose paying me" 

Joe H

[andyg]

As an un-named (but very well known!) Yamaha face said to me when I was reviewing a new keyboard, and saw my eyebrows raise when listening to a style intro, "Yes, we're sailing very close to the wind with that one!"

They can get close, but not copy precisely - unless it's out of copyright, of course.

Not sure how the commercial 'song specific' style writers do things. They probably do pay royalties -that would make very good sense! As for the non-commercial writers, I doubt if the publishers are going to chase someone over a small number of give-aways.