Author Topic: Genos Test Number Three  (Read 9941 times)

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Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2018, 08:10:42 AM »
Hello Gary.

Thanks for the video that you posted.

I've watched it and it makes a very convincing argument.

I've read about this system, but this video expains it better, especially with the
Visual and Aural comparison.

This may be something for me. My Subwoofer alone weighs 42 kilos

I lift it up to my chest twice a day, every day now, loading and unloading
from the car.

Then lift it again around the stage while positioning it, as well as all my
other gear.

All.my gig gear comes to a total of 185 kilograms, that I shift twice a day.

So this Bose L1 system might definitely be something for me.

Or perhaps the L2?

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 08:13:19 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2018, 09:16:06 AM »
Abby, in this day of technology there is no longer the need to use heavy gear for our venues. I use two Bose L1 Compacts (13 kilos each) and a home made 15 inch subwoofer (18 kilos). I can supply sound for up to 300. Gary's Bose system is even bigger at marginally more weight. My sub is probably louder, but it is overkill for most of our work.

At my age, I prefer to leave all the heavy lifting to the young rock stars who know nothing about dynamics :).
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2018, 11:36:11 AM »
That Bose sub weighed just 26-pounds (11-Kilos) and would blow the windows out of any venue I performed. It was a long throw sub, which means it will go to very low frequencies and move lots of air. It was awesome to say the very least. Having worked with some monster subs many years ago, the long throw subs, some up to 3 inches of throw distance, were monsters back then, but today's technology has made a huge difference in the weight, which for this old man, saved my back.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Eric, B

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2018, 01:09:43 PM »
Hello Gary.

Thanks for the video that you posted.

I've watched it and it makes a very convincing argument.

I've read about this system, but this video expains it better, especially with the
Visual and Aural comparison.

This may be something for me. My Subwoofer alone weighs 42 kilos

I lift it up to my chest twice a day, every day now, loading and unloading
from the car.

Then lift it again around the stage while positioning it, as well as all my
other gear.

All.my gig gear comes to a total of 185 kilograms, that I shift twice a day.

So this Bose L1 system might definitely be something for me.

Or perhaps the L2?

Best Regards.
Abby.

Hi Abby,
I have 2 Bose L1 Compact and auditioned the L2 several times.
First off; the sound clarity and coverage is amazing and you will hear things you haven't heard before.
However if you are used to a 42 Kg Sub, you will be disappointed with the B1 sub.
The B2 sub is much better but not close to a 15 or 18 inch sub.
I also want to point out an alternative since you are interested in the L1 Model2.
Look at the LD systems from Maui :
https://www.ld-systems.com/en/series/maui-series/maui-28-g2-compact-column-pa-system-with-mixer-and-bluetooth-black/?force_sid=8stih5f1demg3j9k8pm7hpf7q6
The Maui 28G2 is comparable to the L1 Model2.
I had a chance to audition the Maui on my last trip to Germany and liked them better than the Bose side by side.
And that for less than half the price :) :) :)
I know that might be a factor for you.
There are bigger options too ...
Don M here went from Bose to Maui and likes them better.
Several Synthzone members feel the same.
Just some food for thought. ;)
I will be adding the Maui 28G2 to my rig in the near future.
You can ad extra subs if you need to. Very flexible system.
Good luck
Eric
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 01:13:02 PM by Eric, B »
Genos, PSR-S970
 

Offline mcbrown

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2018, 02:38:19 PM »
Hi Abby,
I have 2 of the LD Systems MAUI 28 G2's which use the same audio principle as the video of the Bose system which Gary put up previously. They are rated at 1000 watts RMS with a peak of 2000 watts and a maximum SPL of 126 dB. The integrated 4-channel mixer offers a microphone input, a high-impedance instrument input for an electric guitar for example, an input for source devices with line level and furthermore a Bluetooth unit, which can be used in parallel to the 3.5 mm mini-jack input. If you need more control over your sound you could use an external mixer. I have a QSC TouchMix 30 Pro digital mixer as an option if I see a need outside of a basic set up.
The subwoofer weighs 19.7kg and the two tower sections are 5.6kg each. Great for fitting into your car when transporting.

It is a very versatile system and has 120 degree horizontal cover and 20 degree vertical cover which greatly reduces the possibility of feedback if using good quality microphones. When I was looking for a system the MAUI was 1/3 the price of the Bose equivalent.

I did a spreadsheet some time ago in January 2017 comparing some of the line array speaker systems which is attached as it seems to have disappeared since I posted it.

LD Systems website:
https://www.ld-systems.com/en/series/maui-series/maui-28-g2-compact-column-pa-system-with-mixer-and-bluetooth-black/?force_sid=kg3aj3hhlu6p3e002gq30tabi0

Murray


Genos + GNS-MS01 spkrs, TouchMix 30 Digital Mixer, Fender Strat, Music Man 210 75 guitar amp, Behringer GMX 212 Guitar amps & FCB1010, Behringer B1200D Sub & B205D f/b spkrs x 4, Boss GT-10 Guitar Fx, Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth, LD Systems MAUI 28 G2 x 2
 

Offline DonM

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2018, 03:02:17 PM »
Abby, for your venues I believe the Maui 28s would be the best bang for the buck.
I use two Maui 5s.  I previously used two Bose Compacts, and before that the larger Bose line array systems, L1 and L2.
The Maui 5s are comparable in size and weight to the Bose Compacts, but they have a deeper, stronger bass, plenty of e.q. controls, more ins and outs and even Bluetooth capability if you ever need it.  AND they are half the price of the Compacts.
They will easily handle crowds up to 50 to 75, depending on the circumstances.
The 28's will handle much larger crowds.
As noted there is no need to haul around heavy p.a. equipment any more!
DonM
 

Offline Tankdave

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2018, 03:09:03 PM »
Anyone use a pair of these Maui 5's at home?  or do they not work up close?
 

Offline guitpic1

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2018, 04:51:26 PM »
Anyone use a pair of these Maui 5's at home?  or do they not work up close?

I use a pair of these for home monitor use.  I also use them when gigging for crowds around 50 folks or so.  They weigh in at 15lbs(6.8 kilos) each.


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/S1Pro--bose-s1-pro-multi-position-pa-system
guitpic1

Genos, S970, DGX650, Bose S1 Pro(x2)JBL Eon One, SSV.3, DXR10
 

Offline DonM

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2018, 12:54:03 AM »
They sound great up close.  Sitting right in front of two is like sitting in a recording studio!
DonM
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2018, 02:07:49 AM »
Anyone use a pair of these Maui 5's at home?  or do they not work up close?

I have a Maui 5 and a Bose L1 Compact.  When I’m not gigging I’ve got them set up in a home studio and they sound great.
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, PSR s970, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2018, 03:16:50 AM »
Hello Kaarlo.


About the speakers, I use two JBL EON 1500 as my main speakers, and a
Behringer B1500HP Subwoofer for my gigs.

The JBLs weigh 17 Kilos each, and the subwoofer weighs 42 Kilos.

The JBL speakers are passive, so I also use a 1000 watt Yamaha EMX5000
powered mixer.

The Behringer subwoofer has 2200 watts, and adds great depth to the
overall sound during gigs.


A good and powerful subwoofer is an absolute must, to avoid having the
arranger sound like a cheap 100$ Casio.

This was my first reaction to the T3 when I first played it live on my JBLs.
It sounded cheap and terrible.

It sounded absolutely great on the Tyros speakers that came with it,
or on headphones, but not on my JBLs.

I had never had this problem when I was using a Roland G 800.

It took weeks of tweaking before I dared to play it in front of an audience again.

And I'm still constantly tweaking it as I play, depending on the room, or when
playing outdoor gigs.

I have sent you an E-mail in case you still want to send me the songs. Yes I do and will.

Best Regards.
Abby.

This is the kind of information I highly appreciate.   Posts like these is what separates the men from the boys even if the boys are 83 like myself.  And then one realizes that there is no way to work with speakers one is able to carry oneself.
Thanks once again Abby.

Cheers
Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Grayfox

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2018, 04:04:17 AM »
These are exactly my settings as well and my Genos sounds absolutely great!

I like to hear the sound Yamaha had in mind. Their mixing engineers are top notch, IMHO. So I have monitor speakers with a flat frequency response (HS7) in my living room and EQ to flat and compressor off. Turning the compressor off gives the sound more "bite".

I notice that the sound of the Genos is well balanced and has more bass than the Tyros 5.

The only EQ needed is to fix problems with the room or speakers, not with the sound of the Genos itself.

So what settings do you recommend for earphones?
Graham


Maarten
Graham Foxall

Current Yamaha GENOS + GNS MS01
with 2 Yamaha MSR100 Speakers
 

Online Toril S

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #62 on: April 06, 2018, 05:02:21 AM »
I have rhe Bose L1 compact. It is awsome!
Toril S

PSR S970, PSR 2100 and PSR-47.

Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2018, 06:06:48 AM »
Hello Kaarlo.


About the speakers, I use two JBL EON 1500 as my main speakers, and a
Behringer B1500HP Subwoofer for my gigs.

The JBLs weigh 17 Kilos each, and the subwoofer weighs 42 Kilos.

The JBL speakers are passive, so I also use a 1000 watt Yamaha EMX5000
powered mixer.

The Behringer subwoofer has 2200 watts, and adds great depth to the
overall sound during gigs.

A good and powerful subwoofer is an absolute must, to avoid having the
arranger sound like a cheap 100$ Casio.

This was my first reaction to the T3 when I first played it live on my JBLs.
It sounded cheap and terrible.

It sounded absolutely great on the Tyros speakers that came with it,
or on headphones, but not on my JBLs.

I had never had this problem when I was using a Roland G 800.

It took weeks of tweaking before I dared to play it in front of an audience again.
And I'm still constantly tweaking it as I play, depending on the room, or when
playing outdoor gigs.

I have sent you an E-mail in case you still want to send me the songs.

Best Regards.
Abby.

Here is the same song, I chose piano because that is where I can hear differences best, played on Tyros and Genos.
Do you think a person in the audience can hear the difference ?

Cheers
Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Pino

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2018, 09:17:46 AM »
Kaarlo, I agree with you 100%, most listeners wouldn’t know or wouldn’t care,
As long as they get good music

Good music probably means a good player,
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 09:19:07 AM by Pino »
S910 - S950 - S975 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline tyrosman

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2018, 06:21:05 PM »
the system I use is Qsc k 10 and an Allen and Heath Z6FX  here is the qsc k10 link   https://www.qsc.com/live-sound/products/loudspeakers/stage-monitors/k10/ and here is the Allen and Heath link. http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/zed-6fx/
Genos
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaarlo von Freymann

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2018, 10:49:09 PM »
Kaarlo, I agree with you 100%, most listeners wouldn’t know or wouldn’t care,
As long as they get good music

Good music probably means a good player,

Thanks Pino,
I see the comparison has been downloaded by quite a few, but so far you are the only one to comment.  These things are difficult and emotionally loaded.  Who wants to admit he  spent a lot of money that strictly speaking  does not have a "business=gig"  reason. We tend to be happier buying a new car we want  explaining "now is the right moment to trade  in"  which is pure b..it for a private person who can use a taxi when the old car is being repaired (a taxi driver losing his income due to the car being in a workshop is another story)  I  have a 27 year old Mercedes and an 18 year old Range Rover.  Just the depreciation of a new Range Rover in the first year is  10 x more than I spend on repairing these old cars every year.  In order to justify our extravagant choices we see, sorry hear things, that are barely discernible  just as a new girlfriend always looks better than she really does. That is why I am not so happy when people  write, "My Genos finally arrived this afternoon, I love it. " when I am looking for information.  Fortunately I happen to have a wife who says,  "My dear, if you want to buy that new Genos even though you are not 100 % convinced it is way better than your old one,  please buy it even if nobody can hear any difference."  So that is why I have one and all the problems that new keyboards always have. Let us not forget Tyros was perfect only after 5 updates and my friendly dealer having exchanged all its innards.

Cheers

Kaarlo             
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline soryt

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2018, 10:52:32 PM »
Here is the same song, I chose piano because that is where I can hear differences best, played on Tyros and Genos.
Do you think a person in the audience can hear the difference ?

Cheers
Kaarlo

Is this recorded with the CFX Piano ?? on the Genos  ?


 

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2018, 11:05:52 PM »
Is this recorded with the CFX Piano ?? on the Genos  ?

Glad you ask soryt,

There is one quote from Mark Twain I love: "I was gratified to be able to give and immediate and correct answer ". which in his case was "I do not know "  :)     
In this case:  YES it was done with the CFX Piano directly from Genos out  (not digital, normal analogue as we use on gigs) to a TASCAM  recorder recording to a card which then was transferred to my PC.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2018, 05:57:25 AM »
Kaarlo,
When I listened, diverting the mp3's output through my keyboard's speakers (as opposed to listening on inferior PC or tablet speakers!) I could hear a difference. The Genos piano had slightly more depth than the Tyros one and the clarity was better. Your audiences may very well not notice a difference. It's usually the player (especially home players who have more time :)) IMO who pay more attention to voice quality and comparisons, rather than audiences.

How differently the pianos are judged will depend to a large extent on the type of music played. Testing a slower piece, with rich chording, extensive use of sustain, and plenty of expression will probably show up larger differences between them - especially for the player.

John
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 05:59:02 AM by jwyvern »
 

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2018, 07:21:12 AM »
Kaarlo,
When I listened, diverting the mp3's output through my keyboard's speakers (as opposed to listening on inferior PC or tablet speakers!) I could hear a difference. The Genos piano had slightly more depth than the Tyros one and the clarity was better. Your audiences may very well not notice a difference. It's usually the player (especially home players who have more time :)) IMO who pay more attention to voice quality and comparisons, rather than audiences.

How differently the pianos are judged will depend to a large extent on the type of music played. Testing a slower piece, with rich chording, extensive use of sustain, and plenty of expression will probably show up larger differences between them - especially for the player.

John

John I very much agree with what you say. I wrote you a long long answer with WAVE samples to prove your point, but it bounced. What I hate about  this wonderful technology is in case the attachment bounces you lose whatever you wrote.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2018, 08:34:34 AM »
Kaarlo, the simple solution to losing your text is to highlight and copy it before pressing that submit button. That way, if you loose it, it's just a matter of clicking Paste into the next submission.

Good luck,

Gary  8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Pino

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2018, 12:22:39 PM »
Kaarlo, maybe you can write the original in MS Word or IOS Pages and copy and paste Your replies,
S910 - S950 - S975 - Ketron SD40 - Maui 5s
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2018, 01:26:02 PM »
What I hate about  this wonderful technology is in case the attachment bounces you lose whatever you wrote.

Just hit the back button, and your post will be there.

Hope this helps.
Fref
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #74 on: April 08, 2018, 05:54:00 PM »
Just hit the back button, and your post will be there.

Hope this helps.
Fref

Thanks Gary and Fred for trying to help. The problem at 83  is you do not do what you know you should do.  How many times have I not been writing a long document on my PC, for instance a drone manual WITHOUT saving it along the way, which I KNOW I should.  You are  100 % right it is best to write anything in Word and then copy it into any  "writing window ".  Having for so long worked with a  10 x 4 foot table, all documents neatly laid out in whatever pattern was appropriate for the job, working with the PC where the next to last document is always hidden by the present is harder for me than it should be due to the dismal short time memory.  Will now try to send just one  WAV attachment, first Tyros and then in the next post the Genos in WAV .  The difference in WAV is easier to hear then in MP3.

There is one thing we, myself included,  easily forget when discussing these things: YAMAHA is not selling keyboards to the audience but to the players, so even if the audience in a noisy environment cannot neither  hear nor actually appreciate  an improvement in sound, that is only an issue in case the prospective buyer bases his decision purely on "audience reaction value", which a large part of the buyers will not do as they are often playing at home when preparing for their gigs.

Cheers

Kaarlo



It happened again, and here I am back with the help of the back button.  It was not right there,  I landed somewhere else, but it could be found. I will now shorten the WAW files and try again
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline MarcusAhlback

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #75 on: April 08, 2018, 06:03:07 PM »
Hi Kaarlo,
I listened to your comparison and I believe  there is mainly the player him-/herself that can notice the difference.
(Or if there should be a pianist in the audience that pays attention).
My compliments on your playing as well. It is balanced and got that swing.

Kind regards Marcus
Yamaha PSR-S770
Casio PX5-s
 

Offline soryt

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #76 on: April 08, 2018, 08:28:50 PM »
In my ears the tyros sounds better ? , Strange :-)
If you play the CFX sample besides the "old" Tyros Piano there is a big difference , isnt it strange that in this recordings there is almost no difference ?

Soryt   :)

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #77 on: April 08, 2018, 09:32:55 PM »
I agree with soryt. The Genos piano seemed to be more lost within the accompaniment which would be enough to downrate it. (Maybe the balance was not set loud enough). When played live on Genos the CFX piano sounds streets ahead of the Tyros flagship ConcertGrand. The latter does not sound any better to me even when played on Genos (it is available in Legacy voices). Formerly the LiveGrand was a more satisfying voice for piano players - now available as GrandPiano in Genos legacy, and still sounding good! Which Tyros voice did you select?

As implied before, although a good stirring number, certainly well played and appreciated by audiences, it is not the best test IMO for overall comparisons. On the other hand it probably helps to demonstrate that at the current levels of technology too much emphasis on detailed debates about which is best are not so relevant for the gigging circuit.  :)
John
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 09:34:17 PM by jwyvern »
 

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #78 on: April 09, 2018, 06:03:33 AM »
In my ears the tyros sounds better ? , Strange :-)
If you play the CFX sample besides the "old" Tyros Piano there is a big difference , isnt it strange that in this recordings there is almost no difference ?

Soryt   :)

Well. I can only say the only difference when recording the samples was that I set all piano parts in Tyros 5/6 to grand piano and to CFX on Genos.
What all this seems to indicate to me is YAMAHA' s keyboard voices have reached an unprecedented  level of authenticity and  we are basically dealing with personal  preferences,   de gustibus non est disputandum   is what already the Romans said, matters of taste cannot be disputed, to which some -  me included say:   :)  on the contrary, only matters of taste can be the subject of a dispute.  Facts are facts so they are indisputable.  Nobody can claim TYROS 5/6  is not heavier than Genos. Nobody can deny the sliders on Genos are nice to have in a live situation.  I would be very happy with my Genos were it not for the  (disputable  fact ? ) that  the  registry bank memory on the two specimens I have here  is not reliable and so far nobody has been able to help me with a fix.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #79 on: April 09, 2018, 06:32:08 AM »
Kaarlo, I think we can help you with your registration issues. All we need are two things:

  • Copies of the faulty registrations - which you have already posted
  • What you wish to accomplish - which seems to be unknown at the moment, or am I in error?

And while I'm thinking of it - the bulleted list function on this forum doesn't work using conventional methods! Normally, you select both lines, and then click the bullet icon, but the resulting code is incorrect. I have to use my knowledge of HTML to manually modify the code because this forum software does not apply the bullets according to how the vast majority of software does! Can someone please tell me how to make several individual lines, bullets?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 08:50:18 PM by Lee Batchelor »
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #80 on: April 09, 2018, 06:39:40 AM »
Yes Lee,
  I already requested this information from Kaarlo. The registrations are loading in fine and staying as set but they are not what Kaarlo wants. Once a registration bank is set up as it should be it will not alter when used again.

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #81 on: April 09, 2018, 08:13:05 PM »
Yes Lee,
  I already requested this information from Kaarlo. The registrations are loading in fine and staying as set but they are not what Kaarlo wants. Once a registration bank is set up as it should be it will not alter when used again.

Thanks Eileen, that is exactly what one would expect and what is necessary if you are to use a keyboard at a gig.  My problem is it does not on both  Genos specimens I have.  That the registrations I sent you are corrupt is evident. No-one would make that stupid banks. They are not what was input and memorized and controlled to have been memorized correctly by calling up the bank  a little later, looking at the info and playing the whole bank as there are things like volume balance of style and right hand  that is not listed in the info. Out of shear desperation  I  yesterday spent an hour making a new bank progressively (one up)  changing EVERY thing under each button:  new style, new tempo, new key, new voice, new harmony, new volume balance under each button.  It did work as memorized when I after a while called up the bank and played through all 10 banks.  I am afraid within a few days without ever having been opened the bank will be corrupt just as the ones I sent to Eileen. Will be back.

Thanks for your patience

Cheers

Kaarlo 
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline soryt

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #82 on: April 09, 2018, 08:22:54 PM »
I recognize Kaarlo his problem with registration banks , after the 1.20 update a lot of registrations made in Ver 1.10 dont work anymore ?
Al the selected file's used in that registrations ( Sty, sound, song , text , etc.) are saved in the user memory , it isnt a isue with the Usb ports.
but the strange thing is that sometimes the "corrupt" registration suddenly works , and some times it doesnt , switching power of/on will sometimes help.
I send a mail to Yamaha , and the respond was :it is sometimes possible that a "bug" occures  because the complexity of the machine , they will have a look at the problem .

Soryt  8)

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #83 on: April 09, 2018, 09:25:13 PM »
Hi Kaarlo,
 When you have completed the bank are you then pressing the file button and selecting save Save then choosing where you want it and pressing Save Here and then naming it. Are you using the parameter lock. If so take it off whilst saving your bank. Then when you have completed a bank try it and if it is OK put the parameter lock back on. I have posted an example on your other thread.

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #84 on: April 09, 2018, 11:51:00 PM »
To my knowledge, there has never been a corrupt registration. That said, it is possible to have a registration link to a corrupt style or midi file, but the registration itself will only do exactly what you tell it to do. This is NOT a bug!

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #85 on: April 10, 2018, 12:35:19 AM »
Agreed, Gary. A registration is nothing more than a series of very good pointers. If it points to a bad style, there's your problem.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #86 on: April 10, 2018, 01:09:07 AM »
Does the registration bank always sort itself out if you power off, wait for a while, then power on again? There could be an issue with an overheating component.

Back about 35 years ago, a friend of mine had a ZX81 (a very early and simple home computer). When you had some text on the screen then very slowly, over the course of about 10 minutes, all the letter "L"s on the screen morphed into "K"s as the machine heated up. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.
Tyros5
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #87 on: April 10, 2018, 04:15:55 AM »
I recognize Kaarlo his problem with registration banks , after the 1.20 update a lot of registrations made in Ver 1.10 dont work anymore ?

I haven't had any trouble with my registrations, and I have over 400 of them. They all worked when ported from the T4, and all remained working when going through 1.10 to 1.20.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline soryt

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #88 on: April 10, 2018, 04:54:04 AM »
I haven't had any trouble with my registrations, and I have over 400 of them. They all worked when ported from the T4, and all remained working when going through 1.10 to 1.20.

Fred

Lucky you ,  ;D

I have made about 550 registrations , and there are a few that doesnt work all the time .
For example one registration contents : style ,voice, effect , song 1&2 (midi & Mp3/wave),Text .when i recal the registration, i see in screen al the info of the registration and the desired style , but it doesnt play that selected style ? , After switching the Genos Of and restart sometimes the registration works . ( not always)
After 15 years of use of the whole Tyros range i am familiar with all the Yamaha software  structure , so i dont think it is a user's error . ( spend ±3 hours a day with the instruments) average .
And not to forget , with the internal styles is there no problem with registrations.

Soryt  8)
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #89 on: April 10, 2018, 06:05:28 AM »
If the goal is to load all old stuff as it was at discontinued models, why on earth do you change keyboards at all?  ???  :o
To me the goal is to get the best possible out of G, not to make it sound and act like T4 or other T or PSR's.
Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #90 on: April 10, 2018, 06:11:38 AM »
Using registrations from Tyros 4-5 sound much improved sound wise when loaded into Genos. It is a starting point for some and they can then add new voices or styles if they wish.

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #91 on: April 10, 2018, 06:24:01 AM »
I had no problems with my Regs finding styles on Genos, most of which are Users.
Tyros5 registrations could not be used without modification mainly because the balances had to be changed by up to a third, otherwise many came out too loud and shrill.
Otherwise I have found they work reliably for their most straightforward uses--ie. for Tyros type operations.

There are problems which are associated with the newer capabilities of registrations on Genos related to retaining the details of DSP's. If 1 Dsp is in use on a right hand voice the details are remembered well enough, but there are  inconsistencies with LH voices. A single setting (not all) within a left voice DSP sometimes changes and completely spoils the sound, following a registration edit to one of the RH voices. If this would happen every time I would have already discussed this with Yamaha but it doesn't and is frustrating.
There is something generally wrong with firmware handling of effects on left voices since the assigned DSP will not save within a user voice (whereas it it does with RH voices) and the DSP type in the voice screen is not stable - turn it off and unlike the RH voices, it will show a different type, and you have to press the reg. Button again to reinstate the correct one.
You would expect registrations to be able to save details within System Dsp's. I have been editing a registration which uses a chorus Tremolo. Up to now no problem.
But this week when I modify it and memorise I find the  edited DSP details are no longer saved to the new reg. button (after many tries and checks etc.). They revert to the preset settings.
I could go on but I'm sure boredom has set in already  ::)

John
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 06:32:59 AM by jwyvern »
 

Offline soryt

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #92 on: April 10, 2018, 07:21:31 AM »
If the goal is to load all old stuff as it was at discontinued models, why on earth do you change keyboards at all?  ???  :o
To me the goal is to get the best possible out of G, not to make it sound and act like T4 or other T or PSR's.

I talk about new made registrations from scratch on the Genos , not T5 regs , I am not an idiot    :-X

S,

Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #93 on: April 10, 2018, 09:08:26 AM »
Here is the same song, I chose piano because that is where I can hear differences best, played on Tyros and Genos.
Do you think a person in the audience can hear the difference ?

Cheers
Kaarlo



Hello Kaarlo.

First let me congratulate you on the excellent playing of both Alley Cat and the
Boogie styles.

I have downloaded both and have been listening for a couple of days now through
two very high quality sets of headphones, and even asked my wife to join me in
listening.


She is a trained classical Pianist, so I asked her to listen to the songs through both
sets of headphones , then asked if she noticed any difference between the two
versions. She noticed none.

Then i asked if she liked any particular version, without me
saying which keyboard was being played.

She actually liked the T5 versions better, both times.

I did notice a difference, just that, a difference.

That means that none of the keyboards sounded better than the other.
They were just slightly different,

Those in an audience who WANT to hear a difference, will swear by all that
they hold holy that they hear a difference.

Others will just concentrate keenly on the person doing the actual playing.
Trying to decided whether that person has what it takes.

Audiences today are very savvy, and you have to pound them with good playing
all night, before they finally admit that they are impressed.

Being able to play a simple song from beginning to end without mistakes will not
impress them.

They want to see you thrash the life out of the Piano or keyboard.
And if you can do that and sing as well, all the better.

They will quickly spot a button pusher, and once they do, you're cooked.
Nothing you will do for the rest of the evening, will change their minds.

They will not notice, or care, whether one keyboard sounds slightly better than the
 other. It is the last thing on their minds.

Best Regards.
Abby.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 09:12:20 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 
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Offline travlin-easy

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2018, 10:03:23 AM »
Abby, I agree 100 percent! And, because I am not a musician, but instead, just a hack entertainer, I can assure everyone that it's the person behind the keyboard that counts the most with every audience I performed in front of for more than 50 years. 20 years with a guitar and singing, and 30 years with an arranger keyboard and singing, then I retired. During that entire time, the compliments were always about my vocals - not how the keyboards or the guitars sounded, and I upgraded many times with both instruments.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 
The following users thanked this post: Pianoman

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2018, 11:02:20 AM »
All very true guys, but I have found over the years a superior sounding instrument makes me a better musician because it inspires me and encourages me to explore more musical avenues. By that logic, a better keyboard indirectly impresses the audience - they just aren't aware of it.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline mikf

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #96 on: April 10, 2018, 01:25:39 PM »
There are many ways to entertain. And many different kinds of successful entertainers. Abby has a rollicking, party style, and is really good at it. But not everyone has to thrash the life out of a keyboard. You might be providing mood music in a Four Seasons lounge, or accompanying a high quality jazz vocalist, or playing in a ceiledh band. You just need to be good at what you do if you want to make a decent living from playing. You can’t buy that in a keyboard, but like Lee says you might feel better doing it if you are playing what you believe is a great instrument.
Mike
 

Offline arvacon

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #97 on: April 10, 2018, 03:39:51 PM »
Finally what happened with that store manager, did you managed to borrow the Genos for the weekend or you still waiting for him to come back from holidays?

By the way, I found this video on youtube, so I will leave it here. It seems there are several childhood illnesses yet with Genos, but the next firmware updates will solve them I guess, as it always happens.  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sin4JYqtO5U
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #98 on: April 10, 2018, 06:42:58 PM »
Finally what happened with that store manager, did you managed to borrow the Genos for the weekend or you still waiting for him to come back from holidays?

By the way, I found this video on youtube, so I will leave it here. It seems there are several childhood illnesses yet with Genos, but the next firmware updates will solve them I guess, as it always happens.  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sin4JYqtO5U



Hello Arvacon.


He must be back by now. He had taken an Easter break.

I have been gigging intensively since the 22nd of March, and just did not have
the time right now to go into the city to see him.

Once I start my gigging cycle it becomes the only priority for me.

I was free yesterday, but had to go looking for a reasonably priced garage
to fix my power steering that has suddenly stopped working, and possibly
change the timing belt as well while at it.

It's a priority too, because if don't have a car I can't transport my gear.
I have a second car, but it's a small VW Polo that I use for small errands.

My next day off will be next Monday, I may be able to go see him then.
I can also call and ask, but these things are better done face-to-face.

Best Regards.
Abby.
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos Test Number Three
« Reply #99 on: April 10, 2018, 06:54:59 PM »
All very true guys, but I have found over the years a superior sounding instrument makes me a better musician because it inspires me and encourages me to explore more musical avenues. By that logic, a better keyboard indirectly impresses the audience - they just aren't aware of it.



Hello Lee.

What you say is true.
However, from posts I have read on this forum over the past 6 months (yours included)
many stated that the T5 is also a superior sounding instrument.

I have never played a T5, but I was already blown away when I first played the T4 at
a friend's house 8 years ago.

So the T5 cannot suddenly be all that bad.

Best Regards.
Abby.
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx