Topic: Genos

[michael]

We had our first gig on saturday with Genos and I must say I love this machine we got great ovation for the sound 

[Lee Batchelor]

Good for you, Michael! A lot of people on this forum claim it makes no difference to a crowd whether you play a T2, T3, T4, T5, or Genos. To an extent, that's correct. But for the most part, I disagree.

I have heard so many great keyboard players in bands (for example) who use 20 year old keyboards held together with duct tape. I would love to hear what these guys could do with an up to date sounding machine! Genos DOES make a difference. Probably not in a seniors home where you're playing pretty quietly, but we played for a dance a few weeks ago. The floor was pretty much full all night. We play for this client on a regular basis. The Genos sounds more like a band than a keyboard, especially when you add a decent subwoofer. Sure, you have to know how to play, but superior gear always helps. Keep up those chops!

- Lee

[EileenL]

So nice to hear good feed back. Pleased your gig was a success

[Leading Edge]

I'm sorry I do not agree.  Not that I am saying the Genos may not sound slightly better in a direct sound comparison but I doubt any audience would give a great ovation for the sound on the basis of a Genos over say a Tyros  4 or 5 in the right hands.   If you were saying a top of the line sound system over a poor budget sound system I would be more likely to agree with you.

[hammer]

I have to politely disagree with LeadingEdge here.  I once owned a PA4X, Tyros 4, and a Ketron SD7 at the same time.  I gig up to 6 times weekly, often several times a month at the same place,  and  I tried to not play the same gig with the same keyboard in order to avoid the same sound each time.  Sure enough, even though I played many of the same songs EVERY time I changed keyboards there was someone that would come up and refer to a new sound or something was different.  So they did notice the difference in sounds and styles from one keyboard to another.

Deane

[travlin-easy]

I too disagree with leading edge. When I upgraded from the PSR-3000 to the PSR-S950 the audiences immediately took note. Players, however, make a huge difference. Some players enter the venue, set up their gear without saying a word to their waiting audiences, go through the motions, tear down the equipment and leave exactly at the end of the contracted time.

Then there are players of equal skill levels, who are also entertainers. They usually arrive early, set  up their gear while talking with folks in the audience, put on a great show, interact with the audiences during the entire performance, often play longer than the contracted time, and when they're finished performing, they often walk through the audience and talk with some of the attendees.

Now, does the audience hear the difference? You can definitely say yes to this if you see individuals in the audiences that normally did not respond to a song, suddenly began tapping their feet, clapping their hands or singing along with you. When the keyboard's sounds are more like a live band, hotter drums, gut thumping bass, crisp highs, clean, clear vocals, the audiences respond in kind. No doubt about it!

There are two sides to this coin. On one side, the major difference is the player, while on the other side, the big difference is the overall sound of the arranger keyboard. When a great player/entertainer/singer is paired with a fantastic sounding arranger keyboard, the results are phenomenal.

Good luck,

Gary

[Lee Batchelor]

Well said, Gary. And then there's the folks who hover around your keyboard during the tear down. They want to see where all those fantastic sounds come from. To be fair, I had that same reaction when I first started using T5. It's the same, except, the Genos is far more advanced in the sound processing department.

[tyrosman]

good to hear a great Result about Genos

[valimaties]

Let's not exaggerate here !
Genos it is a better improvement in sound over Tyros series, not with 50% greater, and it is not another brand, it is Yamaha, and sounds like an Yamaha. Is a top of the keyboards, like Tyros 5 is (in Tyros series). I'm sure that over 95% of people (not musicians) that hear a Tyros 5 and a Genos, does not feel that is another keyboard (playing the same style or midi ). An ordinary man does not hear music as we do (drums and every part of it, bass, pianos, guitars, strings, etc).

Deane, you played 3 different keyboard brands. Definitely is other sound between them, even if you play the same style, or the same midi file on each other... Every brand of keyboards (Korg, Ketron, Casio, Yamaha, Roland...) makes their sound. Every brand has its own sound processors, audio interfaces, and so on. Never a Korg will sounds like a Yamaha, or Yamaha like a Korg, or Ketron like Yamaha, or Yamaha like a Ketron, and so on.

In the same time, if you upgrade from a PSR S series to Tyros or Genos, definitely the sound will be improved, and most of the audience will feel that , even if they are Yamaha keyboards. The level of sound between them is increased a lot and it feels it!

Regards,
Vali

[Leading Edge]

Some interesting points of view here but I would like to respectfully point out I did say I was only comparing Tyros 4 & 5 with Genos. 

[J. Larry]

I’ve gigged with a bunch of Yamaha arrangers.  My observation is that in most social situations, parties, etc., the average person will not notice, or pay attention to sound gradations between arrangers-----unless, for some reason, they are curious about arrangers, have some musical experience or interest, know and like the performer, want to chat afterwards, and other such matters.  The more relevant factor is the entertainment issue, as Gary pointed out.  Whether one gets applause or glowing reviews often revolves around the circumstances at the time----song selection, presentation style, audience participation, environmental concerns surrounding the gig, maybe the weather, how folks are feeling during the gig, and who knows what?  Not necessarily the sound of the instrument.  You win sometimes and feel like you’re on a roll.  Other times, you wonder what may have gone wrong.  Sometimes, even a first seeded team is beaten by a 16th seed.  And, the first seed might have been playing a Genos.   

[Tyros5Mad]

Sound matters in my opinion.

The Genos is the best sounding keyboard I have heard so far. I wish I had one of these when I was playing in my rock band centuries ago - lol.

I am very interested to hear what Korg's response will be with the PA5x coming soon I believe?

Regards,
Richard

[michael]

I'm sorry I do not agree.  Not that I am saying the Genos may not sound slightly better in a direct sound comparison but I doubt any audience would give a great ovation for the sound on the basis of a Genos over say a Tyros  4 or 5 in the right hands.   If you were saying a top of the line sound system over a poor budget sound system I would be more likely to agree with you.

I have played with every keyboard since 900pro and still Think Genos is fantastic and we have top of the line sound system 2 Bose F1 with sub  and we have never got so much response Before
so maybe we are much better then last month

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

I'm sorry I do not agree.  Not that I am saying the Genos may not sound slightly better in a direct sound comparison but I doubt any audience would give a great ovation for the sound on the basis of a Genos over say a Tyros  4 or 5 in the right hands.   If you were saying a top of the line sound system over a poor budget sound system I would be more likely to agree with you.

CORRECT ! Those of us who can hear the difference tend to overestimate our public's musicality.   In a blind test and not directly one after the other I am afraid I could not say what was Tyros and what was Genos.  Quite a few cannot tell the difference between major and minor and from where you stand it is easy to see the sense of rhythm is not very evident  either.  When somebody tells me, there cannot be a person who cannot hear the difference between major and minor I hand him my multi color ball pen and ask him to write  his name  in  green and red.   I cannot distinguish between green and red !  Then most everyone says, can’t you see the grass is green. Answer: yes like you can see the grass is green looking at a black and white photo.
I have made demo  CDs since 20 years to send to people who call and have not heard me play  - Finland is so small, most call because they have.  Some recordings were made  on Technics, some on Tyros 1, some on Tyros 3 and some on Tyros 5. As I mix the content of the CD according to what the prospect tells me he likes,  there are many old recordings in the mix. To make sure the CD is ok I usually listen to it, and honestly, sometimes I ask myself, on what keyboard did  I play that ?  And believe me or not, there is one song I made on the YAMAHA 5700  some 20 years ago on a 16 Track  TEAC.  Nobody has ever noticed the difference in sound quality because the 5700 had some 4 bar styles that still have not been surpassed.  I still have the 5700.   Quite a few styles in Tyros 5 and Genos  are just 2 bars. Maybe that is OK for to-day's' music, I use them very rarely.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[stephenm52]

I've been using my Genos on gigs and have to say I notice a better response to the keyboard than I have with other arrangers.   I've written this in the past and at the risk of sound redundant I'll write it again.  My wife thought I was out of my mind again for buying another arranger.  When I unboxed the Genos she said, "why did you want that one, it looks like a couple of the other keyboards you owned................then I started to play it without tweaking anything, her comment was "wow this is the best sounding one of them all."

[EileenL]

Hi Stephenm52,
  I have to agree with you. I think it is the sound quality that hits you first when you hear this keyboard. The clarity of the styles and voices is really great.

[Pianoman]

I too disagree with leading edge. When I upgraded from the PSR-3000 to the PSR-S950 the audiences immediately took note. Players, however, make a huge difference. Some players enter the venue, set up their gear without saying a word to their waiting audiences, go through the motions, tear down the equipment and leave exactly at the end of the contracted time.

Then there are players of equal skill levels, who are also entertainers. They usually arrive early, set  up their gear while talking with folks in the audience, put on a great show, interact with the audiences during the entire performance, often play longer than the contracted time, and when they're finished performing, they often walk through the audience and talk with some of the attendees.

Now, does the audience hear the difference? You can definitely say yes to this if you see individuals in the audiences that normally did not respond to a song, suddenly began tapping their feet, clapping their hands or singing along with you. When the keyboard's sounds are more like a live band, hotter drums, gut thumping bass, crisp highs, clean, clear vocals, the audiences respond in kind. No doubt about it!

There are two sides to this coin. On one side, the major difference is the player, while on the other side, the big difference is the overall sound of the arranger keyboard. When a great player/entertainer/singer is paired with a fantastic sounding arranger keyboard, the results are phenomenal.

Good luck,

Gary

I agree with what Gary says here, and I would like to add one more thing.

It is not the instrument that gets you the applause, it is how you play it and your
overall performance, whether singing or just playing, and how you comport yourself,
that will make or break your show.

Sometimes people seem to forget or just omit this point.

A good instrument is always a plus, but it will only get you so far.
It is always up to the musician to prove his/her mettle.

That is what people will notice and care about first, before noticing your instrument.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Gunnar Jonny]

...It is not the instrument that gets you the applause, it is how you play it .....

You're perfectly right, and mentioned at this forum more than once.
At SZ this is pointed out zillions of times: 'It's not the keyboard, it's the player'.  

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

It is not the instrument that gets you the applause, it is how you play it and your
overall performance, whether singing or just playing, and how you comport yourself,
that will make or break your show.


A good instrument is always a plus, but it will only get you so far.
It is always up to the musician to prove his/her mettle.

That is what people will notice and care about first, before noticing your instrument.

Best Regards.
Abby.

Abby, your posts always touch me and make me reflect.   We have been discussing whether the sound of a keyboard is very important to the audience. Some  like me  have written, they will not notice anything. But maybe that is not the point.  We all  do agree the sound matters to  THE PERFORMER whether real or imaginary.  And maybe that is what actually makes a difference the audience hears, feels or whatever term you want to use.  If the PERFORMER  feels his new instrument sounds better it might make  him perform better.  65 years ago my father one day surprised me: he had secretly taken my Keilwerth sax  and exchanged it for a Henri Selmer Mark VI.  A new sax must be broken in to be at its best, but I had a gig 4 days later and naturally was extremely happy and excited "I am going to play a SELMER Mark VI the best sounding sax money can buy"  People who certainly could not see I had  a new instrument (gold lacquered tenor Saxes look the same)  came and said,  "Kaarlo, your solos to-night were unbelievable."  So maybe I have been wrong wondering why all these Genos owners make love declarations on this site. Loving and pride in your instruments help making you a better performer, just as an enthusiastic audience inspires a performer,  whether he is a tennis- or keyboard player.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Pianoman]

Hello Kaarlo.

I agree with you that a musician who feels good about his/her instrument is at
a good starting point, as it boosts confidence in oneself.

As far as audiences are concerned, it is the artist that they will look at first.
It is after all, the reason that they are there in the first place.

How he/she is dressed, talks, sings, and plays, is what they will notice.

Half the battle is already won if you dress well for your gig.
Showing up looking like you're homeless is not helpful.
The audience will notice that.

How you interact with your audience comes next.
It is not helpful when an artist looks like he/she would rather be somewhere else.
The audience will notice that.

Then comes the playing and/or singing.

If you have mastered your instrument, and the song you're playing, you should
look at your audience while playing.

Look them straight in the eye, one by one, without fear.
Just looking down at your keyboard, or your feet, indicates a musician who lacks
confidence.
The audience will notice that too.

Then tell yourself that you are there because you are a musician, that you have
done your homework well, and that success will depend on your musicianship,
not your keyboard.

The audience will notice all the things I've named above first, before maybe noticing,
or caring that you have a new keyboard.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

......As far as audiences are concerned, it is the artist that they will look at first.
......Half the battle is already won if you dress well for your gig.
......you should look at your audience while playing.
.....Look them straight in the eye, one by one, without fear.
.....The audience will notice all the things I've named above first, before maybe noticing, or caring that you have a new keyboard.

Best Regards.
Abby.

Abe, I love to read your posts. Either I get some valuable new ideas or I am happy  to get confirmation I have for a long time already done the right thing.
As you can see from my avatar, I always wear a white tuxedo.  Once someone stepped up to me and said, nice to see you wear a white tuxedo. I said "Thanks, and you know why I do that ? Because then people do not notice the myriad mistakes I make as I play from  my memory, which is like a a Swiss cheese, full of holes".  I had forgotten to switch off the mike. The audience roared with laughter.   In December a radio station referred to a gig I did at a spa.  "There was a well dressed old gentleman entertaining the guests playing a keyboard.  How his instrument could sound both like a trumpet and a strings sectionis is one of those modern miracles....."

I am proud to have followed a real professionals professional advice.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Leading Edge]

It's certainly an interesting post and some very valid points have been made regarding the choice of keyboard being played in public.

A while back I mistakenly posted a number in the 'Genos Challenge' using a Tyros 4.  Nobody picked up on my error of omitting to state it was a Tyros 4 until I put a correction in the post apologising for my mistake and stating I was posting with a T4 and not a Genos.

I'm not saying by any means that anyone's points are not indeed valid but I think it does to some extent show how difficult it is pinpoint a keyboard unless you have two different keyboards side by side to compare.

I would still very much like a Genos but the old T4 is going to have to earn it's keep a bit longer.

Thanks again to all those who have kindly added to the debate. Much appreciated.

Vic

Here is the original Tyros 4 musical posting using a Simple Record:

https://app.box.com/s/lkndqnxmpehbxppw785hteqzlu32clbo



 

[Pianoman]

Abe, I love to read your posts. Either I get some valuable new ideas or I am happy  to get confirmation I have for a long time already done the right thing.
As you can see from my avatar, I always wear a white tuxedo.  Once someone stepped up to me and said, nice to see you wear a white tuxedo. I said "Thanks, and you know why I do that ? Because then people do not notice the myriad mistakes I make as I play from  my memory, which is like a a Swiss cheese, full of holes".  I had forgotten to switch off the mike. The audience roared with laughter.   In December a radio station referred to a gig I did at a spa.  "There was a well dressed old gentleman entertaining the guests playing a keyboard.  How his instrument could sound both like a trumpet and a strings sectionis is one of those modern miracles....."

I am proud to have followed a real professionals professional advice.

Cheers

Kaarlo

I love your Avatar Kaarlo.
And the anecdote about Swiss cheese, especially because of the unplanned
Live mike situation.

The unintended humour arising from such situations is a great positive, as it
puts the audience at ease and more connected to the performer.

Best Regards.
Abby.