Author Topic: Genos...a few thoughts  (Read 6906 times)

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Offline guitpic1

Genos...a few thoughts
« on: March 10, 2018, 01:45:15 AM »
This is posted on another forum as well.

I’ve had my Genos a little over a month. Been putting about two hours a day, minimum, on it since I got it. Had my first gig with it yesterday.

Genos is different than any keyboard I’ve had in the past.

First off, it’s 76 Keys....I’ve come to love that feature.

Genos has few dedicated buttons or sliders...almost everything can be assigned. I like that feature but it can also be a bit strange.

For instance, there’s no dedicated fader button. I didn’t think about that when I set up my master registration. So, on each of the 250 songs/registrations I have done, if I want the fader function, I have to go back and set that up on each song.

In other words, there’s very few Global settings. This can be both a blessing and a curse. So far, for me, I like the assignable features so it’s more a blessing.

One thing that’s interesting...Playlist works much like Songbook on the PA4X. If I edit a song on a playlist, it refers back to the original registration. That means that a song I edit on one playlist will update on other playlists that have that song. At least that’s what it looks like now.

Regarding Genos vocal processing, Yamaha must have updated it because it sounds as good(dare I say better?)to me as the TC Helicon.

Voices and styles are so good sounding to me that I enjoy hearing them as much as the audience does.   :)

I read complaints/concerns about Genos on other forums. I wonder how many of those concerns are just tied to not understanding how Genos works?

The Genos is pricey but it’s obvious Yamaha put thought into this keyboard. The biggest thing I see is that with the many assignable features, and updated OS, and the abilities to upgrade voices, styles etc, I can end up with a new keyboard from time to time....without actually having to buy a new keyboard.

I guess what I’m saying...nice job Yamaha on the Genos.   ;D
guitpic1

Genos, S970, Casio PX 560, Bose S1 Pro(x2)JBL Eon One, SSV.3, DXR10
 
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Offline gdc

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2018, 10:52:30 AM »
I agree with you completely. I came from a T5 and I find, with the Genos, I'm playing it a lot more just because it sounds so good. There is so much presence in the voices, it's a joy to hear. Now that I'm used to the touch screen and menus, it feels like second nature to use. I just assigned the fade function to the button on the left that's in the same position as on the T5. Works like a charm. Fabulous keyboard!
Graeme

Offline Pianoman

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2018, 05:10:57 PM »
Hello Guitpic.

I applaud your fair, honest, and straightforward
assessment of the Genos.
Admirably without the defensiveness that sometimes
accompanies this subject.

I wish you many years of fun and joy with your Genos.

Best Regards.
Pianoman.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 05:42:31 PM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2018, 08:43:52 PM »
Hi Guitpic,
   A very nice positive post. I have reassigned quite a few things which make the keyboard a lot easier to find things. I also like the fact that you can save on board styles to Favorites which saves a lot of time trying to remember which section you heard that style in that you know want to use. Great keyboard

Offline rattley

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2018, 07:18:57 AM »
Even though I've had my Genos since December I still find onboard styles I haven't tried or spent much time with. Last night I was in a Latin mood and spent 3 hours going thru the styles in that folder. As with so many of the other onboard styles I really marveled at many of them. Just the overall mix and balance of the accompaniment is stunning. Especially the drums. Everything just sounds so much more live than Tyros 5 did.  Even the right hand OTS voices seem to be more carefully chosen and balanced. I seldom have to change any style or melody volumes on the fly as in the past.

In case you can't tell...........I love this keyboard and am so happy to have been able to upgrade from a Tyros 5.  My Tyros 5 was delivered to the buyer yesterday. I hope he doesn't read this post !!        LOL     -charley

Offline Gloria

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2018, 08:09:39 AM »
GUITPICKER 1, GREME, EILEEN & CHARLEY - I'd like to buy a Genos, but I like to "try before I buy."  I live in a city of
600 thousand people & there is not one music store that has a Genos.  I'd like to thank you for all the information you've mentioned in your posts on PSR Tutorial, I've learned more from you than I have from any salesman in any music store!

Regards to all,
Gloria
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 08:12:57 AM by Gloria »
"Music is the Universal Language"
PSR Performer Page
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2018, 08:34:05 AM »
I can only echo the comments of others here the Genos is a fantastic keyboard.  The Playlist feature for my live gigs is a bonus as is the 10 registration buttons.   I too have reassigned various buttons actually it made the most. Sense to me to. Add the “F” button as the fade button.  Love this board.


P.S. If you don’t want to get by the Genos bug, do not demo one.  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 08:35:38 AM by stephenm52 »
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, PSR s970, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline keynote

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2018, 12:35:41 AM »
I assigned Fade In/Fade Out to the Rotary SP/Assignable button. I use a Yamaha FC7 expression pedal to engage the organ rotary slow/fast speed.

Mike

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2018, 01:06:50 AM »
GUITPICKER 1, GREME, EILEEN & CHARLEY - I'd like to buy a Genos, but I like to "try before I buy."  I live in a city of
600 thousand people & there is not one music store that has a Genos.  I'd like to thank you for all the information you've mentioned in your posts on PSR Tutorial, I've learned more from you than I have from any salesman in any music store!

Gloria,

If you’re still in the Phoenix area, you can try mine.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline manuel

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2018, 05:14:20 AM »
Hello Gloria and Fred....

I also live in the Phoenix Area, and I had my Genos since November....I also play at some Senior dances in Scottsdale, Sun City, Mesa, Sun City West, etc....
You also can try mine or I can demo it to you, I demo for Yamaha at the NAMM shows.


Manuel
My 2 Cents

Manuel
 

Offline Gloria

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2018, 10:19:58 AM »
Hi Manuel, it's great to hear from you again.  I'd heard from Crown Music in Sun City but decided over 100 mi. was just too far.  I have reconnected with Guitar Center in Scottsdale to get your schedule at their store, so hopefully I'll see you some day this wk?

Thank you for replying through PSR TUTORIAL - a great forum!

Gloria 
"Music is the Universal Language"
PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Gloria

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2018, 10:24:59 AM »
Hi Fred, thank you for the offer to try the Genos, Guitar Center is only a mi., so I'll go there.  Please say hello to your wife from me; things have changed since we had you both over to the house,  Luther passed away suddenly 4 yrs.

Regards, Gloria
"Music is the Universal Language"
PSR Performer Page
 

Offline reya

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2018, 03:06:57 AM »

For instance, there’s no dedicated fader button. I didn’t think about that when I set up my master registration. So, on each of the 250 songs/registrations I have done, if I want the fader function, I have to go back and set that up on each song.

In other words, there’s very few Global settings. This can be both a blessing and a curse.

Hi Guitpic1

About these global settings ...

The way I use registration memory ....
When making my master registration file, I check all options when saving settings to a button. So the maximum keyboard setup is saved there.

When making song registration files however, I only check the options of which I know that I regularly change them per song ....

Currently "Assignable buttons" "Live control" , "Line Out" .... are not checked when saving song registrations. (that may change in time a I get more familiar with Genos)
Now when I need to make a global change on one of these settings, I just need to load my master registration, make the change I want, update it to my master registration and I am done .
After that the change is implemented in all songs ....

There are probably other ways, but this works fine for me .

Regards
Rudy
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 03:36:47 AM by reya »
Genos, PSR S770, Roland PK6, Ketron SD1000
HP Slate 21, Mobilesheets Pro
 

Offline guitpic1

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2018, 11:22:21 AM »
Tx Rudy
guitpic1

Genos, S970, Casio PX 560, Bose S1 Pro(x2)JBL Eon One, SSV.3, DXR10
 

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2018, 09:36:22 PM »


I’ve had my Genos a little over a month. Been putting about two hours a day, minimum, on it since I got it. Had my first gig with it yesterday.
Genos is different than any keyboard I’ve had in the past.......


Genos has few dedicated buttons or sliders...almost everything can be assigned. I like that feature but it can also be a bit strange.

For instance, there’s no dedicated fader button. I didn’t think about that when I set up my master registration. So, on each of the 250 songs/registrations I have done, if I want the fader function, I have to go back and set that up on each song.

In other words, there’s very few Global settings. This can be both a blessing and a curse. So far, for me, I like the assignable features so it’s more a blessing.

One thing that’s interesting...Playlist works much like Songbook on the PA4X. If I edit a song on a playlist, it refers back to the original registration. That means that a song I edit on one playlist will update on other playlists that have that song. At least that’s what it looks like now.......
I read complaints/concerns about Genos on other forums. I wonder how many of those concerns are just tied to not understanding how Genos works? ........


This is post is composed using partly your text. Hope you do not mind. :)
Genos is different than any keyboard I’ve had in the past.  YES INDEED
Genos has few dedicated buttons or sliders...that feature  can also be a bit strange.

For instance, there are no “global”  settings, not for the bender, not for the "fade in fade out". I didn’t think about that when I set up my registration . So, on each registration I have done, if I want functions in my way  I have to go back and set that up on each  registration bank. (button) 
YES AND A LOT OF WORK.

In other words, there’s very few Global settings. This can be both a blessing and a curse. So far, for me,  it has not been a blessing.

Regarding Genos vocal processing, Yamaha must have updated it because it sounds as good  or better than  any dedicated voice processor I have  e.g. both the rack mount Helicon Voice Works Plus and  Digitech Vocalist Live Pro and the Roland VP 7. I use Bob = Louis Armstrong on Genos and  simultaneously  4 part  harmony on the Digitech (two microphones)  so Louis can say something to the singers and they will respond in 4 part harmony.

Voices and styles are excellent. You can route the wind instruments through AUX 1 and blow them with an analogue  blow controller with both breath pressure controlled volume and filter, so they sound 99 % like the real thing.
 
It is quite clear that many  problems users have are due  to not understanding how Genos works. Genos is not Tyros 6,  Those coming from the Tyros line presume things work in the same way.  They do not.

It is obvious Yamaha put thought into this keyboard.  But Genos  - like Tyros 5 - still needs a lot of updates.  There are in IMHO  illogical paths in the software (which are not bugs and I am sure will be rectified by updates in case enough buyers feel they are illiogical)  But there seems to be problems that are not “a matter of opinion”.

I am not software-savy enough to judge whether they are software or hardware related. On 2 specimens I have thoroughly tested with the importer here, the memory function of for instance  registry banks is not reliable.

Here is what we did  (in case anyone knows  a better way, PLEASE let us know)

1
We started by assigning the functions you need for that bank to the sliders and also set  the “fade in fade out function” and “the pitch-bender” settings (these settings must be done first) We saved  these “global” settings to each registry button.
2
We then memorize intros, endings,  styles, voices, tempo and volume of each item on the 10 buttons. 
To make sure everything sounds the way we want it to sound  on stage we played the registry. Everyting was fine.
3
We saved the registry bank under  the name  “Delilah  95  F”  (95 meaning tempo and F the key)
4
Then we played another set up and after that to make quite  sure Delilah was put into memory correctly , we called up that registry.  There it was, perfect. 
5
After a week  -  I used the Genos many times since we memorized Delilah –  I  call up the Delilah registry bank at a gig.

I was panic-stricken:  it  started with a chacha rythm, the volume was  ear deafening and the tempo  160 !   I was sure I had chosen the wrong registry file, not Delilah.  I had not. The registry was corrupted!
After this incident we have checked the registry banks which can easily be done on the page that is dedicated to that. And indeed a lot of the registry files are corrupted,  no intro, wrong style, wrong tempo, wrong volume, wrong slider assignment.  The same problems were present on the second Genos.

Anyone experienced this problem, anyone aware of a remedy ? P L E A S E   H E L P

Cheers
Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Antonio

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2018, 11:16:18 PM »
Hallo Kaarlo

I offer you my modus Operandi, in the hope that you can benefit from your Genos.
At the moment the operating system is updated at 1.20 and I'm not happy, I'll wait for version 1.92 ....... 8) 8) 8) (auugh) to begin to reason, hopefully good!

First you have to prepare a start registration with all the parameters you need for example:

1) Keyboard Split Point
2) Pitch bend
3) Transpose
4) OUT assignments (Speakers)
5) Foot switch
6) Mixer Setting
7) Possible Compressor Setting
8) Keyboard initial / After touch

Assignable Buttons

A) Mixer
B) Channel On / OFF
C) Registration Memory
D) Rotary On / off
E) Style Information
F) Fade in / out

Of course you can enter other parameters at will. SAVE THE EVERYTHING IN A START REGISTRATION. [/ s] [/ b]

When you turn on GENOS, THE FIRST THING YOU WILL MAKE LOAD THIS REGISTRATION, and from this moment any registration you make, and which you save will carry all the Parameters listed above.

So if you save different registrations in this way, by calling the registration or the linked playlist you will always have a registration with all the parameters.
I avoid making a more registration. A song, Una registration,

Regards
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 11:17:34 PM by Antonio »
 
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Offline Antonio

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2018, 11:23:19 PM »
Important

if you load a song registration, automatically you will have loaded a start registration !!!!!!!

Ciao
 
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Offline reya

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2018, 10:42:36 PM »

5
After a week  -  I used the Genos many times since we memorized Delilah –  I  call up the Delilah registry bank at a gig.

I was panic-stricken:  it  started with a chacha rythm, the volume was  ear deafening and the tempo  160 !   I was sure I had chosen the wrong registry file, not Delilah.  I had not. The registry was corrupted!
After this incident we have checked the registry banks which can easily be done on the page that is dedicated to that. And indeed a lot of the registry files are corrupted,  no intro, wrong style, wrong tempo, wrong volume, wrong slider assignment.  The same problems were present on the second Genos.

Anyone experienced this problem, anyone aware of a remedy ? P L E A S E   H E L P

Cheers
Kaarlo

Hi Kaarlo

That must be terrifying !!! Experiencing such behaviour at a gig !!!

I have not experienced this behaviour and I am afraid I have not got a remedy either.

I do find it strange though that no-one else seems to have this problem, and that both your Genos and the one you tested with the importer seemed to have the same problem!
Maybe it's related in a way to the way you use the keyboard. Maybe you are doing some things a little different then most others, and maybe that behaviour triggers a bug in Genos somehere or maybe it is faulty hardware ?? Or even maybe someone else has access to the keyboard and changes things behind your back ??

In order to try and help you narrow down the possible causes , I was wondering about a couple of things ...

1) Are  you  saving the registration files to the internal memory of Genos or to a USB stick ?
If it is to USB stick, have you tried using a different one ?

2) When you noticed the faults in the registratiions, did you check the modification dates of the faulty registration files. Were they still at the date you created and tested them on ?? Or had they changed ....
If you cannot see the dates on Genos, go to "MENU"/"UTILITY" / "Display/Touch screen", and set the "time stamp" parameter to "show"

3) Also you say the faulty registration started with a chacha rhytm. Was that rhytm used in the song you played before you got to the faulty registration ?

4) Have you stored other things on the same media the faulty registrations were on (beeing it Genos internal storage or USB storage) ?
(MIDI recording, audio recordings, mp3 ...., voices ...... )
If so, have you had any problems (errors) with those ??

Thanks ...


Regards

Rudy
Genos, PSR S770, Roland PK6, Ketron SD1000
HP Slate 21, Mobilesheets Pro
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2018, 01:20:51 AM »
The easiest way is to re-save these registrations as you want them Making sure you only have the boxes ticked in memory of what you want to happen when you play it. Make sure you have style and tempo ticked and your style should remain as you saved it. When you have done this don't forget to save it again.
  I believe what the problem is is user error as no one else I know of has experienced it.

Offline metcam

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2018, 02:09:37 AM »
I have Genos since December 15Th.

The best keyboard ever I had it.

I am using only 20% from internal stuff and again I am very happy with Genos.

All what I wanted so far they put in Genos.

Bin on gigs a few time and everything is perfect.

So friends,, be happy and play and enjoy GENOS.

Best regards.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 02:11:42 AM by metcam »
Curent Instruments: GENOS the best of the best
Previus instruments:PSR-A3000,PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,TYROS5,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
KORG:pa800,KORG PA-900,Triton Extreme,Triton rack,.KORG X3,Roland G600.Roland D20........
 

Offline Gloria

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2018, 04:18:12 AM »
Metcam - thanks for your reply!  I am going to order my Genos today!   :)
"Music is the Universal Language"
PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2018, 05:19:45 AM »
Kaarlo,

You should post your problem registration here so we can take a look at it for you.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2018, 09:21:57 PM »
quote author=reya link=topic=43524.msg344627#msg344627 date=1521063756]

AWFULLY sorry, did not see your great effort to help me, please accept my sincere apologies.

I have tried to give answers inside your text with CAPITAL  lettering to make orientation easy, I know capital letters are considered impolite :(


****************************************************************************************************************
Hi Kaarlo

I do find it strange though that no-one else seems to have this problem, and that both your Genos and the one you tested with the importer seemed to have the same problem! YES HOW RIGHT YOU ARE !
Maybe it's related in a way to the way you use the keyboard.  YES, YOU ARE CORRECT, I USE A WIRELESS IN EAR MONITORING SYSTEM AND MIC. AS A FACT I HAD LESS PROBLEMS AFTER REMOVING THEIR POWER SUPPLIES FROM THE MAINS. Maybe you are doing some things a little different then most others, and maybe that behaviour triggers a bug in Genos somehere or maybe it is faulty hardware ?? Or even maybe someone else has access to the keyboard and changes things behind your back ??  VERY GOOD POINT, BUT NOBODY EVEN GOES INTO MY STUDIO BECAUSE IT IS SUCH A MESS :)  BUT OFF COURSE AT 83 ONE MAY HAVE INGRAINED WAYS TO DO THINGS. IT TOOK ME ALONG TIME TO UNDERSTAND WHY I HAD PROBLEMS WITH TYROS REGISTRATION FILES SUDDENLY NO MORE WORKING. DUE TO SPACE LIMITS I HAD SHIFTED  STYLES FROM THE USER DRIVE TO PARTITION 1 ON THE HARD DRIVE, SO THEIR WHEREABOUTS BECAME UNKNOWN. IT SEEMS IN CASE YOU DID NOT HAVE PARTITIONS ON THE HD,  TYROS WOULD FIND THEM. 

In order to try and help you narrow down the possible causes , I was wondering about a couple of things ...  I NEED NOT STRESS HOW MUCH I APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORT TO HELP ME !

1)
Are  you  saving the registration files to the internal memory of Genos or to a USB stick ?
If it is to USB stick, have you tried using a different one ?     HAVE TRIED BOTH, MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. I HAVE NO USB IN THE BOTTOM SPACE AND I USE A USB STICK ONLY FOR TRANSFERRING ITEMS FROM TYROS OR MY PC.  DURING NORMAL PROGRAMMING THERE IS NO USB ANYWHERE.

2)
When you noticed the faults in the registrations, did you check the modification dates of the faulty registration files. Were they still at the date you created and tested them on ?? Or had they changed ....
If you cannot see the dates on Genos, go to "MENU"/"UTILITY" / "Display/Touch screen", and set the "time stamp" parameter to "show"
WHEN GIVEN SUCH EXTRAORDINARILY EXACT INSTRUCTIONS I AM ABLE TO DO WHAT I AM TOLD. UNFORTUNATELY OFTEN I CANNOT. YES THE THE STAMP IS ON.
I HAVE LOOKED AT THE WINDOW YOU CAN CALL UP FROM THE REGISTRY  THAT SHOWS WHAT STYLE AND TEMPO IS UNDER EACH BUTTON, AND YES THE PHOTO TAKEN OF THE DISPLAY BEFORE AND AFTER DO SHOW WHAT IS IN THE MEMORY HAS CHANGED. THERE IS A TINY TIME STAMP NEXR TO THE NAME OF THE REG BANK, BUT UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE NOT LOOKED AT THAT WHEN SAVING, THANKS FOR THE ADVICE, I WILL START JOTTING THAT DOWN.

3)
Also you say the faulty registration started with a chacha rhytm. Was that rhytm used in the song you played before you got to the faulty registration ?
NO, I DO SONGS FROM A MIDIFILE WITHOUT THE MELODY AS I PREFER TO PLAY THAT MYSELF.  NO STYLES ARE IN THE SONGS/MIDI FILES.

4)
Have you stored other things on the same media the faulty registrations were on (being it Genos internal storage or USB storage) ? (MIDI recording, audio recordings, mp3 ...., voices ...... )
If so, have you had any problems (errors) with those ??

THE FAULTY REGISTRATIONS ARE ALL ON THE USER DRIVE. what a relief compared to tyros 5, there is abundant space.
MIDI FILES YES (MOSTLY FROM YAMAHA SOFT TRANSFERRED FROM TYROS 5)   

AUDIORECORDINGS   NO, 

MP3    NO,   

ONLY INTERNAL VOICES TWEEKED and saved on THE USER DRIVE
(for instance  1 trumpet  an octave lower, 1 trumpet an octave higher in order to sound OK on whatever split you put it on)


The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2018, 10:05:39 PM »
Quote
After this incident we have checked the registry banks which can easily be done on the page that is dedicated to that.

Kaarlo, where exactly is this page? Thanks...
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2018, 11:15:21 PM »
Hi Lee,
  When in registration mode press the icon at the top of the page that says Menu. There you will find it.

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2018, 02:08:34 AM »
Thanks, Eileen! I know where that page is. I've only ever used the Edit button and ignored the rest. You learn something new about this beast everyday :).
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2018, 05:02:37 AM »
It's not always essential to get into registration mode first. You can get directly to the info screen for the current reg. from other modes through Direct Access/and press one of the reg. buttons. (For the reg edit screen press DA and press Regist plus or minus).

John
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 05:21:31 AM by jwyvern »
 

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2018, 06:31:37 AM »
Hi Lee,
  When in registration mode press the icon at the top of the page that says Menu. There you will find it.

Thanks Eileen, I should have mentioned that.  I will try to make photos of the display showing  my set up system. but my daughter took my camera for Easter.

By pressing a registry buttons every time the intro ( 2 or 3) is called up after which of course the style starts playing. 
The styles are all from the user drive, not the preset drive because I  do modify them in the style creator.  Typical modification:  volume balancing of parts, removal of parts I feel overload the style, instrument changes (I do not like vibes in styles though I like them for melody)  I choose a style and modify the tempo in order to be able to categorize styles. Some styles are Ok and therefore included in several tempo categories, others are good just close to the range they were created for

                                    70  90  110  120  130  140  160  180 
 
so when I build a bank I will not have to go through 200 styles to pick out one that is good for  the  120 -tempo - bank  that I am doing. They are also saved in separate files  like Combo and Big Band. After the bank is done you can look at the content on the  beforementioned page to control  that style-intro  and correct style is memorized  and that the tempo is correct. Unfortunately  the volume is not displayed. 

When doing this work you of course will also want your  slider- button - knob and pitchbeder-  functions to be memorized under each button as there is no global memory place for these. So I actually start out with the empty bank from this site, adjust the assignable to my standard system, memorize them under button 1 and then copy them to the other 9 buttons.  You must of course check the memory button items  contain just assignables.

Now what is the problem I encounter ?  These settings, controlled  to have been correctly memorized by  calling up  another bank first and then choosing the just made bank,  will after a day or two no more load correctly.

These are examples:
Right hand volume that was set to 80 may on reload have changed to  127,  style volume  that was set to 70 may be anything from 40 to 127.   Tempo that was  set to 120  (mentioned in the name of the bank to help you chose the bank that suits the tune you are going to play)  may suddenly have changed to 220.   The sliders malfunction.  They were of course set to be independent. Something has happened so that when you adjust the bass volume it also affects the Mic volume or the PAD volume, whatever.  The button that was set to fade in fade out now governs the Leslie speed and ABCDEF button assignment may have changed.  I first thought the problem was specific to the Genos I had for testing whether  to shift from Tyros 5/6 to Genos, but the second I now have here has the same problems. As a fact they were even worse when my wireless in ear monitor system and wireless mic were on, so now their power supplies are disconnected. So either I do something that Genos will not let you door both have a defect which to me seems most unlikely except in case all units have this problem,

Happy Easter

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2018, 07:20:07 AM »
You must put a tick in assignable box on memory if you have assigned different functions. When setting the volumes of your style do this in the mixer and then save to registration making sure you have style and Tempo ticked in memory. Your volumes should then stay the same when you select your Registration. You can always then use the Sliders for small adjustments when playing.

Offline Stijn

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2018, 06:27:12 PM »
Thanks Eileen, I should have mentioned that.  I will try to make photos of the display showing  my set up system. but my daughter took my camera for Easter.


Hi Kaarlo,
No need for a camera to make pictures of your display. Follow the instructions below to make screen captures.

1. Switch off the Genos
2. Insert  a USB stick
3. In the Style control section, hold down the "BREAK" + "ENDING 2" + "ENDING 3" buttons while turning on Genos
4. To take a screen copy, press "ONE TOUCH SETTING 4"
5. The images are stored on the USB stick (in the root folder and called CAPT000X)

Regards,
Stijn
One good thing about music; when it hits you, you feel no pain.
 

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2018, 08:08:51 PM »
Hi Kaarlo,
No need for a camera to make pictures of your display. Follow the instructions below to make screen captures.

1. Switch off the Genos
2. Insert  a USB stick
3. In the Style control section, hold down the "BREAK" + "ENDING 2" + "ENDING 3" buttons while turning on Genos
4. To take a screen copy, press "ONE TOUCH SETTING 4"
5. The images are stored on the USB stick (in the root folder and called CAPT000X)

Regards,

Stijn

THANKS, seems a brilliant idea, will try  (did I reply already, I easily get lost on this HUGE site ? )
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2018, 08:17:40 PM »
I do not think pictures will help us solve your problem unless you make a video of the steps you are using to create your registrations. I really don't think this is a keyboard problem.

I have just noticed you say you use Midi Files for your backings and not styles. In that case you must make sure you have song ticked in memories and song saved to the registration bank.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 08:28:57 PM by EileenL »
 

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2018, 09:37:06 PM »
I do not think pictures will help us solve your problem unless you make a video of the steps you are using to create your registrations. I really don't think this is a keyboard problem.

I have just noticed you say you use Midi Files for your backings and not styles. In that case you must make sure you have song ticked in memories and song saved to the registration bank.

Thanks Eileen. You are the most  consistently helpful poster on this site.  Of course I do a lot of tunes using the reg banks with styles but I also as you say use mifi files.  I have never had problems with my midi files. Instrumentation having been tweaked and the file transposed to the key of C on the MIDIFILE OPTIMIZER 8  and so that channel allocation is always the same, not just drums always on ch 10, (it is strange some have base on ch 1)  they are saved and listed in the user drive. The only thing I have to do is choose the song and transpose the Genos to the key I want to be applied which I put into the name of the file.

As someone who I am sure can play and improvise in any key, you will laugh now and and there is that saying a good laugh prolongs life  :) and that need both of us have !  I am  able to improvise only in the key of  C.  That is why I have transposed all my midi files to C, but of course then they do not sound right or are unsingable, so the desired key must be input by the dedicated buttons just like I did on Tyros.  Every now and then a surprisingly good  (Karaoke trained ?)  person asks whether i could let him sing the song I just played "with my baritone sax" .  Then we have to see what key is right for that person, and if it is not too far off what I used, the only thing I have to do is use the up and down buttons, and I can add some improvisation with my right hand, again in the key of C though we might be in F#.

Finally it seems some others also have memory problems with the registry. Hopefully Yamaha will come with an upgrade that lets you put the global settings of buttons, sliders etc  somewhere else locked up. Someone wrote me maybe I am putting to much under every reg button for the memory to cope with.

Cheers and happy Easter
Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2018, 10:37:15 PM »
Global settings do not change so no need to save them anywhere.
  I am attaching one of my Genos registration banks Let me know if it changes after loading a few times. Thos is set up the way I told you on one of your other threads.
 
The following users thanked this post: bmarcill

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2018, 09:15:04 AM »
Global settings do not change so no need to save them anywhere.
  I am attaching one of my Genos registration banks Let me know if it changes after loading a few times. Thos is set up the way I told you on one of your other threads.

Dear Eileen,
I have a feeling I did already confirm that your beautiful reg bank worked without any problems. This is just to make sure you have the information.  It seems I get  bewildered as there are so many interesting threads on this site,  BTW one of my well received tunes is "Bewitched, bothered and bewildered".

Cheers
Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2018, 01:07:26 AM »
What we are asking you to do is post us the registration that is giving you a problem so we can see why by trying it on our keyboard.

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2018, 06:03:14 AM »
What we are asking you to do is post us the registration that is giving you a problem so we can see why by trying it on our keyboard.

Thank you FINALLY the fossil understood. Hopefully the system will let me attach the files,  with photos it told me "security problem".

Thanks for your always being helpful

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2018, 07:55:25 AM »
I have just tried these banks and have found on one Intro was saved to most and also Mono was on on the whistle. The other one had no style attached and had Piano set to all ten buttons. I would say this is nothing to do with the keyboard being faulty but the bank buttons are not being saved correctly. As I don't know what you wanted on them I cant reset them for you.

Offline Roger Brenizer

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2018, 08:16:56 AM »
When you tried to attach your photos and received the "security error message", Kaarlo, what were the filename extensions of the photos you were trying to upload?
"Music Is My Life"
My best regards,
Roger

(The older I get...the better I used to be...LOL!!!)
Roger’s PSR Performer Page
 

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2018, 07:52:51 AM »
Quote from:  EileenL on Yesterday at 11:55:25 PM

I have just tried these banks and have found

1
on one Intro was saved to most and also Mono was on on the whistle.

2
The other one had no style attached and had Piano set to all ten buttons. ´
I would say ............the bank buttons are not being saved correctly.

3
As I don't know what you wanted on them I can’t reset them for you.

*********************************************************************

Thanks Eileen for going to the trouble, very kind of you. I wish to compliment you,

YOU  DID  FIND  WHAT  I  HOPED  YOU  WILL  FIND AND EXACTLY WHAT IS THE PROBLEM. 
 
1
You correctly "found on one Intro was saved to most.”     "  Correct, and that is corrupt.
I always save Intro "under every button" and ending under button 10 ,  not just Intro on most like it is now.
To make sure I made no mistake when saving, I first do something else and then go and call up the bank I memorized a short while ago, play it  and take a photo of the screen.
So far so good, usually everything is as intended.

But then a few hours, days or a week  later  when again I call up this controlled  registry bank that was OK,  it has become corrupt and is like the ones you examined.

As it is natural to suspect  I did  not set up the banks correctly  I wanted to send you the photos of the bank information after the first call up (showing it is correct) and a photo of  what then becomes of it,  e.g. what you have seen.

From the photos  one can deduct that it was originally saved correctly and the going corrupt has happened later.
 
It is obvious no-one  would  build a bank without  styles attached  so your presumption "the bank buttons are not being saved correctly" as plausible as that may seem just is not the case and can be verified from the photos.
 
From the files you have investigated it is obvious they are crap,  but they were not crap when called up shortly after the memorization as the photos I have verify.

So you went to a lot of trouble and found out what is the problem for what I want to thank you.
One problem that occurs often and cannot be seen from the registry information, only heard and seen on photographs of the small display is that often also the volume balance between right hand and accompaniment and accompaniment parts volume  settings become corrupt.

Often also the tempo reverts to something it was not memorized to.
 
The YAMAHA importers representative is aware of the problems, but I  have no information as to how well he has informed YAMAHA  Nordic.
The fact that I have had two Genoses here for weeks either indicates he is waiting for help from YAMAHA  or is just too busy. He took over in January from my trusted old friend with whom I had excellent co-operation for decades and he is understandably under a tremendous workload. I know,  40 years ago I was in exactly his situation.
They treat me very well as I am their oldest client. I bought my first electronic instrument from them in 1968, half a century ago !

I trust you Eileen are able to say what I should do next. And I wish to thank you for your help.



 
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2018, 07:52:54 PM »
Firstly are you using on board styles in your registrations. If you are using third party ones to link you must make sure these styles are never moved or the registration will not pick them up.
  I have altered the everything wrong bank using default split point. I also found that some voices in Line Out were set to Sub. Put them where they should be and now you will hear them. Set up different styles in each and adjusted volumes.

Offline jwyvern

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2018, 08:45:14 PM »
Hi Kaarlo, your problems with registrations seem to be spreading across a number of threads so I am attempting  to bring it back to this thread rather than go off topic even more elsewhere. On another thread you said,

" It did work as memorized when I after a while called up the bank and played through all 10 banks.  I am afraid within a few days without ever having been opened the bank will be corrupt just as the ones I sent to Eileen. Will be back."

Yes they usually work OK after memorising because the setups you are after are still in the keyboard memory buffer.

But there is still something you need to do to make your registrations permanent and I don't believe I have seen you mention it in your posts. After memorising and before moving on to a different bank you must save that whole edited bank first. Usually, if you try to move on the keyboard will warn you if the bank has not been saved and give you the option to save it.
But can you confirm you have been saving each bank immediately when completed, if not their settings will not stick beyond the current editing session? Note the saving process is slightly different from Tyros and it's possible you may not be completing it properly.
John
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 10:07:08 PM by jwyvern »
 

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2018, 09:49:01 PM »
Hi Kaarlo, your problems with registrations seem to be spreading across a number of threads so I am attempting  to bring it back to this thread rather than go off topic even more elsewhere. On another thread you said,

" It did work as memorized when I after a while called up the bank and played through all 10 banks.  I am afraid within a few days without ever having been opened the bank will be corrupt just as the ones I sent to Eileen. Will be back."


John

Thanks  John. I do apologize, this site is so huge with so many interesting threads I have not been able "to keep my act together", e.g. keep in the threads but committed the error of "spreading across a number of threads"  The only excuse I can come up with is I was born in 1935 :(   Eileen is my age category and is 100 % organized, which just shows the claim "All men are created equal"  is  "second truth."

Thanks for going to the trouble of explaining the memorization sequence and the very precise instructions.

"But there is still something you need to do to make your registrations permanent and I don't believe I have seen you mention it in your posts. After memorising and before moving on to a different bank you must save that whole edited bank first. Usually, if you try to move on the keyboard will warn you if the bank has not been saved and give you the option to save it. "

You are right,  I may not have mentioned that in any of my rants, but I am aware you have to  put the bank in memory and give it a name before going elsewhere. And as you say, Tyros and Genos help you not to forget that by posting the message  that the bank has changed and asking you whether you wand to save the changes or not, and you get that message even if the instrument  was switched off  when you switch it on again, which to me is out of this world.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2018, 10:05:20 PM »
Did you try the registration bank. I want to know if it changes after you have loaded it a few times.

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2018, 10:48:02 PM »
Firstly are you using on board styles in your registrations. If you are using third party ones to link you must make sure these styles are never moved or the registration will not pick them up.
  I have altered the everything wrong bank using default split point. I also found that some voices in Line Out were set to Sub. Put them where they should be and now you will hear them. Set up different styles in each and adjusted volumes.

Thanks Eileen,
I forgot to mention the setting  to SUB line out is intentional on wind instruments as I use a breath controller for those (not the discontinued Yamaha)  which only influences volume but a system I built already  30 years ago which has both a voltage controlled amplifier and a voltage controlled filter.  Just "blowing volume"  misses the point that the spectrum of a trumpet played loud is different from one played at low volume. E.g.  on a radio turned down to a very low volume you can still hear whether the trumpet was played fortissimo.  One also needs a voltage controlled filter if one wants the breath control to really emulate a real trumpet. Will make a recording for you just in case you might be interested as we are dealing so much with how an instrument sounds. But please, have a look only if it interests you, it is not a request for help. I have the uneasy feeling I am burdening you already far too much and being unreasonable.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97kT82qNRng
                http://www.patchmanmusic.com/NyleSteinerHomepage.html

Neil Steiner - how kind of him -  sent me the schematics 30 years ago free  of charge by snail mail.

"Firstly are you using on board styles in your registrations." Very important point, but as I have put all styles on the Genos user drive I have had no problems calling them up,  but to make sure they are not the cause, I have made the latest  reg banks using only Genos preset styles and present voices as you will see when you open the attached two versions of the same  registry bank,  the original one made yesterday and how it has changed when called it up to-day.

****************************************************************************************************************
First things first:   I am very thankful and VERY impressed  to what length Eileen and a lot of others on this site are willing to go to help.  The willingness to invest/waste time is unbelievable.
****************************************************************************************************************

I made a bank in a rather special way to try a final analysis: is my experience that the memory is unreliable correct or not.

On PARAMETER LOCK  every item was  non-clicked, e.g. there was nothing locked. On FREEZE  every item was non-clicked  and FREEZE was never activated as the intention was to change everything going up the buttons.

The  idea was to change everything under every registry button 1 -10. So all items to be memorized  were “upped”  one step,  except the Intro as you do not have 10 intros.

1.
STYLES were  not taken from the large pool of styles I have  (which I mostly have done)  to ascertain the problems are not caused by old STYLES.  Now the styles were taken from the JAZZ presets starting with the first under button 1 and going up the list to nr. 10.  It is easy to control the setting is correct  on the HOME page by pressing the button 1 – 10.

2
Voices were taken from the present pianos going up  in the pianos listed.  VOICE HARMONY settings were also changed but have not been scrutinized.
It is easy to control that the setting is as intended by pressing the VOICE button and then go through button 1 – 10.

3
Transpose was  set  to going up one step  with each button from  - 2  (Bb) on button nr 1 to + 7 on button 9  and stay + 7 on button  10 which just has the ENDING.

4
Tempo was set to increase by 1 with each button starting with 131 on button nr 1 to  140 on button 9 and  decrease to 70  on the ENDING under button 10

5
VOLUME for both style and right hand voice was increased by one step under each button starting with  70 for both increasing to 80 for both on button 10.

6
I made photos of the display to make sure settings were done as described and showed up on the big display under the REGISTRY  INFORMATION and the small display for the volume changes and also on the HOME  page for STYLE and for the tempo. I have found no dedicated display for TRANSPOSE setting, (if you press the up and down buttons it simultaneously to show it that also alters the setting)  so TRANSPOSE was checked by listening.

7
I played the created bank to verify that everything  was called up  as intended.  It was,

8
I saved the bank and gave it the name  “EVERYTHING + 1  ON 1 – 10”

9
I went to another bank, played that and then called up the bank that had little before been memorized.   Everything seemed to have been memorized correctly except the volume changes, which do not increase.

10
Calling up the bank next day the errors have increased:   now not only the volume change is missing but also the TEMPO is corrupted.






 

The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2018, 11:49:04 PM »
Thanks  John. I do apologize, this site is so huge with so many interesting threads I have not been able "to keep my act together", e.g. keep in the threads but committed the error of "spreading across a number of threads" 

If you would start your own threads rather than hijacking others, then you'd be able to follow your posts and their replies.

Hope this helps,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2018, 11:56:39 PM »
Kaarlo, what Fred is trying to say is, "Pick one issue you're having and start a dedicated topic where we can all contribute our ideas and solutions." The word hijacking is a little out of line, in my books.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2018, 01:53:52 AM »
Kaarlo, what Fred is trying to say is, "Pick one issue you're having and start a dedicated topic where we can all contribute our ideas and solutions." The word hijacking is a little out of line, in my books.

Thanks Lee for your great kindness. Very much appreciated. 
I never feel offended when someone is right especially when I am wrong.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 
The following users thanked this post: Lee Batchelor

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2018, 03:48:03 AM »
Did you try the registration bank. I want to know if it changes after you have loaded it a few times.

Dear Eileen,
Thank you for the umpteenth time.  Yes, I did download the file, put it on a stick, copy it to the user drive and save it there.  It did not seem changed when I loaded it after this saving.  To make changes more easy to detect I changed the tempo to go upwards with every button, also the key and the volume of both style and right hand and then saved it under a new name.  And would you believe it  :)  I have called up some other reg.banks  3 times and then gone back to this "easily with one glance" controllable bank, AND SO FAR ALL SETTINGS  HAVE BEEN CALLED UP CORRECTLY  :)

Now I  will not sleep!  Will see if the situation is as good to-morrow.

Attached is a "blown"  whistle sound from the TYROS 5/6  I have to hide behind the mic so that people do not see the silicone tube I blow into.  Few performers whistle these days like Les Paul in his Walking and Whistling Blues  which I always get a lot of compliments from those who can still remember him like I am sure you can. You can actually see the silicone tube on my avatar.

                     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkzUkqwvS3Y


Cheers

Kaarlo














The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Genos...a few thoughts
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2018, 04:17:46 AM »
........." The word hijacking is a little out of line, in my books.

 ;D .. some, or in fact at many fora they use 'Go South' when a thread is doing just that, going south.  ;)  ::)  ;D
Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)