Author Topic: My First week of having Genos and a brief comparison with my Tyros5 and KorgPa4x  (Read 9823 times)

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Offline StuartR

Sorry, but you are incorrect, too :) I don't know what are you saved in your registrations on Tyros 5, but I have had some issues with my Tyros5 registrations loaded in Genos, as some of Delay DSP has Feedback parameter over the maximum value accepted, or other issues, like Distortion DSP on guitar as on Tyros 5 I had Chorus DSP, etc...

Regards,
Vali

Ok, fair point😁. Guess I've been fortunate and haven't noticed any irregularities so far but that doesn't mean there aren't any. I suspect most of the translation errors between Tyros 5 and Genos will get fixed and if they don't you'll be there to let them know! 😲😁
 

Offline EileenL

No it is not a BUG. I think that word has been to freely used without exploring the keyboard and how it works.
  Yes there are a few glitches which will be fixed as time goes on. These certainly do not stop you enjoying this keyboard and doing a little tweaking to suit individual tastes. That is all part of the fun.

Offline Bud2

The only problem I found with a couple of my Registrations from my Tyros 5 was a wrong drum set was chosen and it gave either a strange noise instead of a drum set sound or there was a loud thud instead of a base drum (I think) a friend also experienced this. However the majority of my Registrations worked with either very little alteration or no alteration, I would say over 98% of them were fine, so if you found a lot of problems Kaarlo von Freymann, I can only think you have either not updated the OS or there is something wrong with just your Genos, as nearly everyone else, like me, have had only minor problems with their Registrations off their Tyros 5.
 
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Offline valimaties

It has always been the case that styles, registrations etc are largely transferrable between arranger models in the PSR /Tyros range, but sometimes need tweaking. That is why people devised conversion software, and even after using the conversion they may still not be exact. This is because there are differences in styles and voices, and all the registration can do is pick the nearest thing.  For example, even if Yamaha have not made big change to a voice, they might have tweaked some parameters between models, and his applies also to voices used in the style. So when people say they can transfer they don't necessarily mean they are exactly the same in every case, or that they worked without a little tweaking here and there, because they really cannot be. I wouldn't call this a bug.
Mike

Mike, in my oppinion, Tyros 5 registrations are not fully compatible with Genos. There are issues Yamaha must solve them. Or at least make them convertable from YEM.
A file which is not loaded due system incompatibilities is understandable, but a file which load and some parameters are not loaded correctly, IMO represent a bug. ;) Which, definitelly, has to be informed to Yamaha and solved ;)
Do Not bypass any issue, provide those aspects to Yamaha. They don't know till we inform them ;)

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
All the best, from Romania

Vali Maties - Genos
 

The only problem I found with a couple of my Registrations from my Tyros 5 was a wrong drum set was chosen and it gave either a strange noise instead of a drum set sound or there was a loud thud instead of a base drum (I think) a friend also experienced this. However the majority of my Registrations worked with either very little alteration or no alteration, I would say over 98% of them were fine, so if you found a lot of problems Kaarlo von Freymann, I can only think you have either not updated the OS or there is something wrong with just your Genos, as nearly everyone else, like me, have had only minor problems with their Registrations off their Tyros 5.

Thank you all  VERY MUCH  for dealing with my issues. Naturally I do sincerely appreciate any help very much.  Looking for help  is the reason why I,  and I think all others go to forums.  (I am on quite a few that do not deal with music as I am not  making my living by playing but by designing military drones)  BTW I do have 1.10 installed.
In case it is a problem that  dozens of style I have on the TYROS 5/6  and work well there are neither a TYROS style nor originally even a YAMAHA style but for example  converted from Technics, (Some Technics 6000 styles  are very good)   then that might explain  part of my problems.

In case I have other problems no one else has like for instance 

- the pitch bender range and fade in fade out not staying where they were set  e.g. resetting to something else after power
  being cycled, 
- only my Genos sometimes freezes like my PCs  do every once in a while and must be switched off and on again

then Bud 2's conclusion  that "there is something wrong with just my Genos" seems pretty conclusive.  As a fact no-one else has reported these problems on this forum.  Will copy these posts and hand them to the Yamaha Importer's representative to-morrow, and post anything interesting that turns up.

Kaarlo von Freymann Helsinki Finland
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

I think itís worth pointing out that some people donít have very good hearing and are not therefore going to benefit from the greatly improved sound and also if you wear hearing aids they are not any good for music only speech, unless you pay a lot for them.
Graham

Dear Graham,
How right you are, my sister has that problem. Even  her  6.000 $  hearing aid is reasonably  good only for speech, no hearing aid works well for music.  That's why we should all use noise canceling in ear monitoring  on gigs in order to keep the level low to save our hearing.   I am 83 and  all my EQ settings are still the same as they were 10 years ago, but  different from what they were 20 years ago. More trebble. But to be honest I cannot appreciate the "huge difference" in sound quality  people claim there is between Tyros and  Genos.  But "huge" has different meanings,  Mr. Trump has taught us that.

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline Fred Smith

Thank you all  VERY MUCH  for dealing with my issues. Naturally I do sincerely appreciate any help very much.  Looking for help  is the reason why I,  and I think all others go to forums.  (I am on quite a few that do not deal with music as I am not  making my living by playing but by designing military drones)  BTW I do have 1.10 installed.
In case it is a problem that  dozens of style I have on the TYROS 5/6  and work well there are neither a TYROS style nor originally even a YAMAHA style but for example  converted from Technics, (Some Technics 6000 styles  are very good)   then that might explain  part of my problems.

In case I have other problems no one else has like for instance 

- the pitch bender range and fade in fade out not staying where they were set  e.g. resetting to something else after power
  being cycled, 
- only my Genos sometimes freezes like my PCs  do every once in a while and must be switched off and on again


The bugs you have identified are a long way from your statement "YAMAHA Scandinavia has confirmed that registration banks can not be transferred from Tyros to Genos at this time"

When you make statements like that, you are going to get the responses you did. Had you identified these bugs in your initial post, you would have saved us all a lot of time.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

The bugs you have identified are a long way from your statement "YAMAHA Scandinavia has confirmed that registration banks can not be transferred from Tyros to Genos at this time"

When you make statements like that, you are going to get the responses you did. Had you identified these bugs in your initial post, you would have saved us all a lot of time.

Fred

Sorry Fred,
as a fact the reason why many Tyros owners in Germany and  some here in Finland  were not able to convert reg.banks has been sorted out. (Eileen helped)  A  Tyros site in Germany years ago recommended making  4 partitions on the HD, which helped structuring the content and actually worked well for us through all the Tyros models. Now with Genos that became a problem for those who did that. As an example:  every style on partition 1,  every midi file on partition 2.
It is not possible to transfer the regs. if you have this setup.  You can get around that by copying all styles and registrations to the user drive on Tyros, but for most users that is not possible due to the fact that the user drive on Tyros is too small to accept  all the styles many  (me included) had  on HD partition 1. So ironically both those who on German sites claimed they could not do the trick and those here and on German sites who said they were able to do it  were telling the truth. Yamaha Scandinavia, who did confirm to the Finnish importer that there was a problem probably had this information from Germany.  So now we  who have the problem know what the reason for the problem is and that it will not be solved with the next upgrade.  As to the  many other problems the manager of the importer's keyboard department was kind enough to spend 3 hours with me and is sorting out what are known bugs ans which are just present on my Genos.

Kind regards

Kaarlo

The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 
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Offline Pianoman

Here is a recent video by Peter Baartmans that is an excellent illustration on just how good the Genos can sound in a live setting using a decent setup and a brilliant delivery by the man himself.

Peter Baartmans playing the Genos

Mike

Hello Mike.

Keep in mind that Peter Baartmanns is supported by an entire
organisation that makes sure that he sounds as good as possible.

I have read many praises of Peter Baartmanns, and I'm sure
that some are indeed well deserved.

I personally am not very impressed by the man, and know
quite a few struggling musicians who can run rings around him.

Please note that Blueali used the same sound equipment
for both keyboards in the demo.

The Genos may sound better in some cases, but it is not the huge leap
for mankind that some may insist it is.
That is my understanding of what Blueali is trying to say.

Best Regards.
Pianoman.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 05:31:57 AM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 
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Offline soryt

I have from the beginning a lot of problems with my T5 registrations , i made them new on the Genos ( os 1.10) all my files are on the User drive . after update 1.20
there are now a lot of registrations ( made on Genos) that dont work anymore .
When i select the registration you can see the right style in Register bank info  ( see picture) , but i doesnt play the selected style ?
I wrote several times to Yamaha , they answer that the complexity of the machine can give some problems and they hope there comes a solution ?
I have after update 1.20 more problems than before , and a lot of "hick-ups" (switching between registration about 30 seconds, or freezzing up while editing .
Because the fine sound of the Genos , i want to keep it . But after struggling fore 4 months , my patience is almost gone .

Soryt  8)

 

Offline Bachus

I think the video is kind of misleading..
Due to bad sound quallity, it wants to make people believe the Tyros 5 sounds better and more authentic.

I compared these 3 keyboards for 2 whole days...
And when you take the main piano sound, the Genos and Pa4x are quite. Alot above the T5
When you add dsp, Genos definately can archieve the best sound.

When you compare the new sounds of the Genos, to the sounds that are also in the T5, You can also hear a difference, many of the newer sounds are more dynamic.  And when you start using dsp, you can aleviate the sound of the Genos even more..

What often happens after playing an instrument for years, is that your ears get used to the sound, and the sound you used for so long will have become your prefference.

Also many of the older sounds still use exactly the same samples, and are identical in both instruments, but as said, the Genos dsp can lift the sound more then the T5 dsp. Just because of the simple,fact that the Genos has more dsp power.  Keep in mind that dsp often gives the best natural results when you use it in small subtle amounts..

That to say, is that you can make the Genos sound exactly like the T5, but you can not make the T5 sound like the Genos.
Keyszone.boards.net for all the latest keyboard news and information.
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

....... What often happens after playing an instrument for years, is that your ears get used to the sound, and the sound you used for so long will have become your prefference. .. ..
....... That to say, is that you can make the Genos sound exactly like the T5, but you can not make the T5 sound like the Genos.

You're right, but also our hearing going through changes during the years, it's just like the rest of the body, it goes 'downhillh'..  ::)
Very few, if any, have the same frequency specter during the lifetime.
If the goal is to make Genos sound like or be a T5 or T4 'twin', it's probably a better solution to keep what you have.
Myself, so far I don't regret a single second that I bought Genos, simply love it more for each day I sit down to play it.  ;D 8)
Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Pianoman

Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest.


From " The Boxer "  by Simon And Garfunkel.

Best Regards.
Pianoman.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 07:29:49 PM by Pianoman »
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline stephenm52

I have met and listened to Baartmans in Orlando Florida at a workshop for the Clavinova CVP-709 the man has got plenty of talent.   Part of what his job is "selling the sizzle, not the steak," as the adage reads.


Sizzle not the steak? "This sales phrase was coined by Elmer Wheeler in the mid-1920s. It urged salespeople to focus on the experience around a product being sold rather than simply on the object itself. It means appealing to the senses and emotions of the buyer with the assumption that this is what motivates most people to purchase."
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 08:15:14 PM by stephenm52 »
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, PSR s970, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline Pianoman

I have read many praises of Peter Baartmanns, and I'm sure
that some are indeed well deserved.

Best Regards.
Pianoman.
Musicians don't retire; they stop when there's no more music in them.

Louis Armstrong.


Welcome To My YouTube Videos.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJo1iW9nz1GWzeg1QBl-1wVx14CDWlBqx
 

Offline manuel

I agree 100 % with Eileen, my Genos sounds AMAZING, I still have the T5, is waiting for the next owner, and to repeat, even the registrations from my T5 sound better in the Genos.
I am not sure if the people that cant hear the difference, did they selected the NEW CFX Concert piano.....sounds totally different, and the Ensambles are amazing too....,etc....the new Styles, and some of the old ones have been re-touched/fine tuned, the new S.A.2 Voices, etc.

Way to many differences....if you really know how to use the Tyros 5. Having said that:

I know that Genos may NOT be for everyone....like not everybody drives only Jaguar, Toyota, VW, etc....that is why we have other choices.

My 2 cents.

Manuel
My 2 Cents

Manuel
 

I have from the beginning a lot of problems with my T5 registrations , i made them new on the Genos ( os 1.10) all my files are on the User drive . after update 1.20
there are now a lot of registrations ( made on Genos) that dont work anymore .
When i select the registration you can see the right style in Register bank info  ( see picture) , but i doesnt play the selected style ?
I wrote several times to Yamaha , they answer that the complexity of the machine can give some problems and they hope there comes a solution ?
I have after update 1.20 more problems than before , and a lot of "hick-ups" (switching between registration about 30 seconds, or freezzing up while editing .
Because the fine sound of the Genos , i want to keep it . But after struggling fore 4 months , my patience is almost gone .

Soryt  8)

I am too told to keep my act together, just saw this posting you made. The photos of the bank information show EXACTLY  the problems  I have. I offered to send photos but Fred and Eileen, who say they have no problems whatsoever,  but they said  photos are of no help so now I have sent the corrupted files. I am looking forward to their comments.

Cheers

Kaarlo
The year you were born is unimportant as long as you can still play your keyboard and don't have to change the treble setting
 

Offline EileenL

Where are the files. I have not seen them here.

Offline travlin-easy

I guess I look at this a bit differently than most. When I upgrade to a new keyboard, which I did many, many times, I rarely transferred my registrations. The reason I didn't was the same reason I upgraded - I wanted new and better sounds - not the same sounds I was hearing with the older keyboard. I, like many, had lots of registrations, but in nearly every instance, the new keyboard had some vastly new and improved sounds and voices that made that same song sound so much better. Consequently, it usually took me from 3 to 4 months of working with the new keyboard to create the NEW registrations and Music Finder Directory. About the only reason I would transfer the registrations is so I could go back into  each and every one of them and edit every aspect of it. For me, this has always been a non-issue.

Good luck, explore that NEW keyboard, be creative, and you will discover a whole, new world,

Gary  8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Eric, B

Well said Gary,
That is exactly how I see it and do it.
I am usually done setting everything up in 2 month or so, but keep tweaking it for several month as I get more and more familiar with a new KB
Eric
Genos, PSR-S970
 

Offline EileenL

I have loaded some of my Tyros 5 registrations into Genos and believe me they sound great. Also some of the Genos voices are picked up but sound much richer. I am well pleased.

Offline Bud2

I totally agree Eileen, I took my Genos to our sons over Christmas and New year, I had not had chance to do many new Registrations before we went so the majority of the Registrations I used were the ones from my Tyros 5 and they definitely sounded so much better, even our son and his wife said the same. I just can't understand why so many people are saying they are not happy with the Genos. Yes things are slightly different and to get to things again are different but surely this is to be expected with a new keyboard. You just have to take your time and see how to do things.
Bill
 

Offline EileenL

Yes Bill,
  There are a lot of people that are more than happy with Genos and with using previous keyboard registrations. Trouble is I think a lot that complain do not even have Genos.

Offline Bud2

Well if that's the case Eileen how can they make any real judgments, you surely need to have one for a while before you can make any true comparisons or comments. I must admit though I was very impressed when I heard it in the room where we could get our hands on it at the Yamaha Weekend, even before I sat down to have a good look and a quick play of a couple of tunes, despite only hearing it then through headphones.
As I have said on a thread I created, the only slight disappointment was the fact that when the sliders are set to drawbars there is quite a lot of movement before the numbers change on the screen, if they reacted almost immediately the range of movement of the sliders wouldn't be far off the length of the real thing.
Bill

Offline metcam

Yes Bill,
  There are a lot of people that are more than happy with Genos and with using previous keyboard registrations. Trouble is I think a lot that complain do not even have Genos.

I am more than happy with Genos. All my registrations from Tyros5 working perfectly with NO problems. Most of my registrations are created from Custom voices/drums/styles/ pads/midi files and working perfectly.
Also because there is a loot of space in Genos RAM I loaded custom sets even from Tyros2 and Tyros3 and goes what?: EVERYTHING WORKING PERFECTLY.
SO........

Regards.
Curent Instruments: GENOS the best of the best
Previus instruments:PSR-A3000,PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,TYROS5,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
KORG:pa800,KORG PA-900,Triton Extreme,Triton rack,.KORG X3,Roland G600.Roland D20........
 

Offline EileenL

Yes I think most of us have found that if we copied registrations correctly they are all working on Genos with no problem. Yamaha have come up trumps again with this one.

Offline travlin-easy

As I have stated on other threads, registrations are very powerful, yet simple tools in your keyboard. They will only do exactly what you tell the to do - nothing more, nothing less. Anyone that is having registration problems should go to the lessons section of the forum and read the lessons that Fred and I posted several years ago. This will clear up any problems they may be encountering. Here's a link to the one I wrote many years ago. https://www.psrtutorial.com/lessons/playing/regist/10regGD.html



Registrations cannot be corrupted. However, files they are linked to, third-party style files and midi files, can be corrupted. But the registration itself cannot be corrupted.

Hope this helps,

Gary  8)
Love Those Yammies...
 
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Offline Ingar

Finally I got my Genos and I did a very brief comparison with my Tyros5 Keyboard. I was surprised that the main Sounds are  all the same on both keyboards. However I like the Genos design and light weight. Overall if you have Tyros5, don't rush! I could not find a big difference sound-wise. To me, Genos is like re-packaging of Tyros5 with different look and feel. I recorded my comparison with an iphone camera and shared it on YouTube ( https://youtu.be/4U8S28tz3Mg ). I apologize for my poor English speaking. I hope the video helps.

When you say Geno's was not the big progress for you, obviously nobody can disagree with you. In that case, it would be to overestimate your own experience ..
But many others certainly have opposite experiences.

Best Regards Ingar
 

Offline bluali

When you say Geno's was not the big progress for you, obviously nobody can disagree with you. In that case, it would be to overestimate your own experience ..
But many others certainly have opposite experiences.

Best Regards Ingar
I agree. Actually, in my opinion Genos is the best Yamaha arranger so far and Tyros5 is also very close to Genos. Obviously those who have had keyboards such as Korg, PSR series or even TY3/4, they can be very impressed by Genos (and Tyros5).  As a mater of fact in main sounds such as Piano and Guitar and Violin, etc, there is not a huge differences between Genos and Tyros5. What I meant in my post to show that if you have Tyros 5 do not rush for buying Genos! you still have a great keyboard! However, the arranger applications is not all about the sounds, I see Genos is more advanced and better than TY5 in other aspects such as weight , design, ease of use in live performances, better effects,etc .  I am so glad that Yamaha usually listens to people and noticed that the "Search" feature that I had mentioned in my YouTube Video was added recently to Genos and it is so helpful.(Thank you Yamaha! :))
 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 12:17:18 PM by bluali »
Yamaha YC10,...,GM_WK8, Korg Pa80/800/2x/4x,TYROS 3/4/5, Genos