Author Topic: The Real Reason  (Read 5217 times)

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vanray

  • Guest
The Real Reason
« on: February 01, 2018, 02:33:01 AM »
The real BetaTesters is always the end customers, just as it is at other Arranger Keyboard Producers.
Been that way as long as I can remember.  :-\

Sometimes we are the DELTA Testers too  :D

Looking at the "TIMING" of the genos launch , heres what i think happened .

If i was a Yamaha Top-Boss, and i said to everybody in the factory,
" Get this product out BEFORE Christmas " no matter what.

some technicians, programmers ,beta-testers, might have complained,saying :
"Its not ready for a pre-Christmas launch".

As a Top Boss , i would have thought:
"It Must go out before Christmas, otherwise we lose a Huge profit"

Company's make much more money Before Christmas,
NOT After Christmas, when everyone's has spent all their money.

so i do understand, why the Product had to be launched, regardless of flaws.
 

Offline Enildo

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2018, 05:33:41 AM »
Hi Vanray!

I agree with everything in number and grade!

Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

vanray

  • Guest
Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2018, 05:58:29 AM »
Thanx Enildo

But lets me Honest , this is how big company's operate
Profit, keeps them in Business , and the biggest profits are made
on the run up to Christmass.

Be interesting to know how many Genos have been sold worldwide, so far .
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2018, 06:05:49 AM »
Vanray - yes and no.

The Genos profit returns are not dependent on any such holiday release. I did perimeter sales for Yamaha years ago and yes, we stocked dozens of "toy PSR beginner" keyboards in the months before Christmas. We were practically sold out by December 24. The Genos is in a class by itself. Even though dozens of fine folks here buy the Genos to play in their living rooms, it's a world class, pro level board. If the Yamaha big wigs said to get this thing out for the "Christmas rush," they're nuts.

They would have served us all better by delaying the release so all the bugs and software omissions were fixed FIRST! Early release of poor quality software is a Microsoft trait - oh, sorry, someone asked me not to drag Microsoft into this discussion - EVEN though doing so is a perfect fit for Yamaha's most recent brain child.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

vanray

  • Guest
Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2018, 06:19:43 AM »

The Genos profit returns are not dependent on any such holiday release.

we stocked dozens of "toy PSR beginner" keyboards in the months before Christmas.
We were practically sold out by December 24.


That sounds like a Back to Back Contradiction ?

So your saying it would have been best to launch the Genos
 at the end of FEBRUARY  2018 ?
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2018, 08:06:19 AM »
Perhaps...

The Genos will eventually be a winner, I'm sure. I just think Yamaha pushed it out the door too fast. The only reason I know of for a hasty push to market is, if the competition has a hot item ready to go. I know of no such item. Perhaps Yamaha has the inside scoop on some major release by Korg?? In that case, I'll eat my words. I'll also hold off buying a Genos until I've heard the new Korg :).
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2018, 09:33:24 AM »
I only know three individuals that purchased he Genos, of which, one sold theirs, but the other two think it is the greatest keyboard that ever came out.

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline FluxRyan123

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2018, 11:36:24 AM »
I absolutely love my Genos.  I've had it since October.  I also don't use the styles.  I play it with my band as if it's a synth.

Offline StuartR

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2018, 01:19:23 PM »
I absolutely love my Genos.  I've had it since October.  I also don't use the styles.  I play it with my band as if it's a synth.

Same here. I bought two of them. One is used with a band and the other at home with accompaniment.
 

Offline guitpic1

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2018, 02:01:06 PM »
I only know three individuals that purchased he Genos, of which, one sold theirs, but the other two think it is the greatest keyboard that ever came out.

Gary 8)

Gary,

I know you are retired but have you ever considered buying Genos?
guitpic1

Genos, S970, DGX650, Bose S1 Pro(x2)JBL Eon One, SSV.3, DXR10
 

Offline maartenb

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2018, 05:04:34 PM »
I absolutely love my Genos.  I've had it since October.  I also don't use the styles.  I play it with my band as if it's a synth.

That's an interesting remark!

Why didn't you go for the cheaper Montage?
What has the Genos to offer over the Montage, when one doesn't use the styles and only the voices for live gigs?

I'm interested in your opinion. Thanks!


Maarten

Offline StuartR

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2018, 08:39:05 PM »
That's an interesting remark!

Why didn't you go for the cheaper Montage?
What has the Genos to offer over the Montage, when one doesn't use the styles and only the voices for live gigs?

I'm interested in your opinion. Thanks!


Maarten

I had just that at one point. A Montage for my band and a Tyros 5 at home. As soon as Genos came out I sold the Montage and replaced it with a Genos. After using that with the band for a month or so, I sold the Tyros and got a second Genos. It's easier now to move registrations and modified styles from home to the studio or vice versa.

I found the Montage easy to play but difficult to use otherwise. The relatively small screen had poor touch response (compared to Genos), and the voices, while quite respectable, can't compare to the SA2 voices in the Yamaha arrangers. The front panel of the Montage is littered with small buttons, which are in one of three states, lit, half lit or not lit. I just found it a bit overwhelming for someone who just wants to play. On the plus side, Yamaha has a great synth forum with plenty of technical support from Yamaha subject matter experts and players. That's the one thing I miss. Just one players opinion. Other opinions welcome.😁
 
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Offline pjd

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2018, 03:11:05 AM »
Why didn't you go for the cheaper Montage?
What has the Genos to offer over the Montage, when one doesn't use the styles and only the voices for live gigs?

Hi Maarten --

I've got a similar usage model as Stuart and FluxRyan -- Genos as a synth.

The SA2 voices put Genos over the top -- great for all of the quasi-orchestral stuff that I play. Throw in pipe organs and a real/better drawback organ mode and it's a no-brainer for me. Sure, YEM is not a replacement the rich voice editing in Montage. Genos voice editing is similar to the Yamaha synth "Quick edit" of old. (Example: TG-500.) I don't need FM although Montage does have some nice FM-X performances. Scene morphing and motion sequencing don't do much for me either. (Some features of any keyboard always go unused. :) )

Plus, after working with PSR-S950 and MOX for sequencing from a DAW, I favor the XG architecture in Genos (PSR/Tyros). From reading forums, Montage has some definite quirks. Genos/PSR/Tyros MIDI file load and playback is quite reliable. Case in point, a MIDI file that hung (!) the MOX would play back fine on the S950. Complain to Yamaha and their synth folks say, "The MIDI file is broken." No, I say your corporate stovepipe culture is broken. Port the d----ed code from PSR/Tyros to your synthesizers!

Sorry about that last rant.  :o

All the best -- pj
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 03:12:51 AM by pjd »
 
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Offline FluxRyan123

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2018, 03:44:45 AM »
Maarten,

I just appreciate the acoustic realism of Genos.  it has the right synth voices I am looking for, as well as the right sounds for every other instrument.  And I can edit the voices to my hearts content.  Simple as that.

Ryan
 
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Offline StuartR

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2018, 07:31:23 AM »
Maarten,

I just appreciate the acoustic realism of Genos.  it has the right synth voices I am looking for, as well as the right sounds for every other instrument.  And I can edit the voices to my hearts content.  Simple as that.

Ryan

That's a point I forgot to make myself. While the Montage and even Kronos have (and can have) literally thousands of voices on board, the Genos has the right kind of choices I needed for everyday use built right in.
 
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Offline Antonio

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2018, 06:03:01 PM »
Sometimes we are the DELTA Testers too  :D

Looking at the "TIMING" of the genos launch , heres what i think happened .

If i was a Yamaha Top-Boss, and i said to everybody in the factory,
" Get this product out BEFORE Christmas " no matter what.

some technicians, programmers ,beta-testers, might have complained,saying :
"Its not ready for a pre-Christmas launch".

As a Top Boss , i would have thought:
"It Must go out before Christmas, otherwise we lose a Huge profit"

Company's make much more money Before Christmas,
NOT After Christmas, when everyone's has spent all their money.

so i do understand, why the Product had to be launched, regardless of flaws.

Quite right! Genos is an excellent product but it came out soon. At least 6 months before, this is arrogant business ethics. Only profit at the expense of the final consumer >:( >:(
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 06:04:31 PM by Antonio »
 

Offline valimaties

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2018, 06:42:39 PM »
Antonio... calm down :)))))) and write with small and non-bold letters, it is disturbing ones :)))

You are not the only one who is not so satisfied by his Genos... I'm not only a "sit and play" player, I work on every keyboard that I has, from my first Tyros 2 till now Genos, and PA2X and PA3X (and some other old models, but not so full-features like those top arrangers)...
Even so, I'm not screaming :)))))
______________________________________________
All the best, from Romania

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline metcam

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2018, 07:12:39 PM »
Curent Instruments: GENOS the best of the best
Previus instruments:PSR-A3000,PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,TYROS5,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
KORG:pa800,KORG PA-900,Triton Extreme,Triton rack,.KORG X3,Roland G600.Roland D20........
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2018, 07:17:34 PM »
Here in the UK Genos has sold faster up to date then any other models have and as you spend time with it you realise what a great keyboard this is. Of course there will be updates needed as with all new products. 
This how ever dose not stop people enjoying it now as it is.
  Yamaha for as long as I can remember have always launcher around October there new flagships so why all this talk about released to soon. Why all this money grabbing talk. Nobody forced you to buy one.
 

Offline Antonio

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2018, 07:25:42 PM »
Here in the UK Genos has sold faster up to date then any other models have and as you spend time with it you realise what a great keyboard this is. Of course there will be updates needed as with all new products. 
This how ever dose not stop people enjoying it now as it is.
  Yamaha for as long as I can remember have always launcher around October there new flagships so why all this talk about released to soon. Why all this money grabbing talk. Nobody forced you to buy one.
 

Eileen, I have bought all the Yamaha models since 1980, and you will certainly understand that from a leading company, I also expect suitable behavior. I have never said that Genos is a bad product, only that it has not reached its maturity.
 

Offline Antonio

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2018, 07:33:22 PM »
Antonio... calm down :)))))) and write with small and non-bold letters, it is disturbing ones :)))

You are not the only one who is not so satisfied by his Genos... I'm not only a "sit and play" player, I work on every keyboard that I has, from my first Tyros 2 till now Genos, and PA2X and PA3X (and some other old models, but not so full-features like those top arrangers)...
Even so, I'm not screaming :)))))

Valimaties, for your rule I am not shouting. In fact I did not use the CAPITAL characters. Simple bold to highlight a concept.

If it annoys you, move on!
 

Offline Antonio

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2018, 07:40:53 PM »
Eileen

I hope my thoughts arrive correctly translated. I use the google translater
 :)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 07:42:16 PM by Antonio »
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2018, 07:50:02 PM »
........If it annoys you, move on!

That type of bold big letters is annoying and totally unnessesary, and to tell people move on like this is simply unpolite and disrespectful!
Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2018, 09:26:31 PM »

If it annoys you, move on!

Antonio, you’re the one who needs to move on.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 
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Offline andyg

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2018, 10:11:06 PM »
Historically, there are two release points in a year. 1) After the Spring NAMM and Frankfurt trade fairs 2) after Summer NAMM and the European round of trade fairs. Frankfurt was often used for pre-release and prototypes and Summer NAMM/London for unveiling the final products. Trade fairs have come and gone over the years, but AFAIK it's still a schedule that makers more or less run to.

And previous comments are spot on, you launch your new 'bread and butter' products in the early Autumn, as that's what pays the bills! Flagships are usually released when ready, but usually at one of the two points I mentioned, so companies go for the nearest one. These days, the instruments are so complex that it's inevitable that they will indeed 'mature' with OS updates. Those updates, which are so vital to some, won't even be installed by a great many owners!

Released too early? I don't think so, and neither do any of the steadily increasing number of students who own one.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2018, 10:24:49 PM »
I remember when the 9000 was first released and it was not complete and that was the first time I went to Yamaha UK to meet the designer team and explain what was not happening as it should. We waited six months for this to be updated and then were supplied with stickers that said Version two to put on the keyboard. This is by no means a first. You can bench test them until the cows come home but each individual will have different uses for a keyboard some of them a little way out for most of us but in the end Yamaha always come through.

Offline valimaties

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2018, 10:39:33 PM »
It's ok guys,  ;D ::)

I'm also not so pleased about those missing things in Genos, or things that don't work as it has to be, but I love Yamaha's sound, that's why I sold all Korg I had.. :D Yes, Korg is 500% much more full-feature keyboard than Yamaha, and cheaper, and they solve bugs frequently, and add features from an update to other... but there are few things on Yamaha that I really think could be improved, and with those which are already in top of (the sound of SA, SA2, etc) I can have the greatest keyboard in the world...  IMO Yamaha must wake up and let its keyboards and PC softs (YEM) more flexible to its owners... I hope one day we will have what Korg has, and YES, Yamaha will be the best arranger/workstation in the world.. Till then, it is a good keyboard, which you can do your job, and that's it ;)

But sincerely, I don't know why we have to speak for so long about this "launched day too soon", or other disappointment we saw in this forum?!

Yes, let's post bugs, that everyone see and to see if exists workarounds, or "how to do that", or "how to do that other thing", etc!
Why there is not a place where we can share custom voices, styles sessions, or other content?!
You surely don't know, but there are a lot of Korg users in my country which share their content freely, even if they buy for example from others (not like premium content of Yamaha, which we know it is only for an account :) ) but I don't saw never Yamaha samples (as ppf, or whatever you all have) shared in some places over the internet... This is what I think we have to do for the future!

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
All the best, from Romania

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2018, 11:09:12 PM »
Probably we do not share content we buy because we respect that the person creating it makes his living from it and piracy is a nasty thing to happen to anyone.
 
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Offline Oldden

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2018, 11:20:12 PM »
Hi,
There is still some free legal stuff around, it's just a question of finding it.
See link below.

http://www.a-mc.biz/makemusic/2017/12/13/tyros-xmas-174-free-christmas-styles/

Oldden.
 

Offline mikf

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2018, 01:51:28 AM »
There is a balance that has to be achieved between release date and product performance. It’s easy to forget as a consumer that on the other side of that balance there are jobs at stake, and many thousands of real families who depend on the income generated. If you get that wrong too often there will be no future products. Yes, the Genos has bugs and shortcomings, but it also largely does what it is supposed to do and many users are delighted to have it - so I doubt it is released too early. Released too early would mean that instruments were being returned by the barrowload and sales were poor. That is not happening. The reality is that overall the Genos appears a huge success.
Mike
 

Offline Stijn

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2018, 02:48:00 AM »
There will always be things that can be improved and there will always be updates. A short story:

I remember such a problem in 1983. I had spent hours building a Wersi Comet - they came in do-it-yourself kits (quite expensive!!). I had bought the kit just for the sake of putting it together, soldering all components onto circuit boards. A very delicate job!
And I couldn’t even play…! When I had to tune the organ to 440 Hz, I had to phone the company because I had no idea where the A key was that I had to press and tune using a tuning fork.

After a couple of months the left, or right part of the upper, or lower keyboard, or sometimes the pedals, would not produce a sound. The upper and lower keyboard had each 2 very expensive Integrated Circuits, the pedals had 1 of those. It so happened that I produced too much static electricity and by way of the keys the IC’s got damaged. Each time I had to buy an new IC chip, at the time € 40 ($ 50). That happened 5 times.

One year later I received a box from Wersi, containing almost 400 diodes and instructions on how and where to drill around 400 holes in the keyboard circuit boards and how to solder in those diodes and some other components.

That was how bugs got solved at the time. Much easier nowadays with a little computer file….
One good thing about music; when it hits you, you feel no pain.
 
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Offline valimaties

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2018, 04:10:38 PM »
Probably we do not share content we buy because we respect that the person creating it makes his living from it and piracy is a nasty thing to happen to anyone.

Ya... with this kind of thinking, the world of Yamaha users will be a circle that wont grow ;) At least in my country ;)
If we make a poll with age of users that play on Yamaha keyboards (arrangers - Tyros series and Genos) I think the biggest value will be over 60's ... I think how it will be over 10 - 15 years when this generation will gone :) I think we will only have to come back to Yamaha then... :(

When I had Tyros 5 (a year ago) I wrote on a Tyros 5 section on this forum, about wishes we want on Yamaha... One of my wishes (having also PA2X and PA3X from Korg) was the touch screen... You, Eileen, you were one of few that was not agree with this idea, now, when Genos has it, it is awesome... :)) So world can change :))))

Regards,
Vali
______________________________________________
All the best, from Romania

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2018, 08:37:47 PM »
Ya... with this kind of thinking, the world of Yamaha users will be a circle that wont grow ;) At least in my country ;)

Eileen would never ever say a bad word about any Yamaha arranger, anything Yamaha does with it, even if they removed the keys, Eileen would love it and found no wrong with it. Just because it's Yamaha, simple as that.  ;)  ;D

Regarding copyright, it's well known that in certain countries too many people don't have any respect for such laws or rules at all.
Even if we sometimes do share a file or two in private, it' a huge difference when spread it an mass openly at fora or at free downloadsites.

Btw,
Now this topic went a bit south, and as I also have posted in it, I guess it will be deleted as so many other threads at this forum.
:o
Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2018, 10:44:22 PM »
What a load of rubbish you are throwing my way.
  I chose Yamaha keyboards because for me they are the best on the market for my needs and many other users.
I also thought that this was a Yamaha site where we tried to help members who were having difficulty.
  All I have seen lately is a good keyboard being attacked from all sides and impatience to wait for updates we know will come along in time. If this keyboard had all the bugs that have been spoken about we would have to take antibiotics to play it.
 
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Offline tyrosman

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2018, 11:35:26 PM »
totaly agree Eileen :)
Genos
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2018, 12:09:11 AM »
What a load of rubbish you are throwing my way......

Eileen, this was meant to be a humorous comment, not to offend you in any way.
If I have offended you, I apologize so much. Sorry.
  :-[
Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2018, 12:40:09 AM »
Eileen, this was meant to be a humorous comment.  :-[

Gunner,

You’ve now made it worse. If you’re going to apologize, just apologize. Trying to recharacterize your comment as something it was not doesn’t help your case.

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2018, 12:49:16 AM »
Gunner,

You’ve now made it worse. If you’re going to apologize, just apologize. Trying to recharacterize your comment as something it was not doesn’t help your case.

Fred

If so, I have no problems to apologize once again. I'll write in Norwegian from now on, I know about my bad english.
Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Joe H

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2018, 12:51:46 AM »
Btw,
Now this topic went a bit south, and as I also have posted in it, I guess it will be deleted as so many other threads at this forum.
:o

I think so too.  Some people just need to go away and stop bringing this forum down in the gutter.  As Eileen says... its purpose is for us to help each other with issues so we can get the most out of our arrangers.

 :)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline mikf

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2018, 01:01:05 AM »
Quote
I think the biggest value will be over 60's ... I think how it will be over 10 - 15 years when this generation will gone
Valimaties - cant count how often I have seen this or similar sentiment on this forum, and I don't think it makes sense. Over 60s do not disappear, they get replaced by the current over 50s, then the next lot who are currently over 40s. As these people progress to their 50s and 60s they usually develop the same interests and tastes as the previous lot. The people buying these instruments today are not the same ones who bought them 10 years ago, or who bought home organs ( the predecessor) 20 years ago. They get constantly replaced. This market is far from reducing - it is actually increasing because people are living longer, retiring younger and are more affluent.
Mike
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2018, 01:02:20 AM »
Joe, that line was mainly meant as a remark for the topic deleted thread abot Genos plastic. Earlier today or yesterday. That thread did no harm and could easily been moved instead of deleted.

Delete the posts who are read as offending, mine i.e. and not the whole thread.
Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2018, 01:34:42 AM »
SAUSAGES!! :P
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2018, 02:13:57 AM »
Gunner, please to not write in Norwegian - that is one of the many languages I was never able to master, though I was there for three times while I was a young US Navy sailor and able to find all the bars in Oslo by learning a tiny bit of Norwegian from a book the Navy issued us prior to arriving. I really enjoyed being there until winter arrived, then I wanted to be in the Bahamas. It is a beautiful part of the world. And, you have mastered the English language much better than some of the natives here in the USA.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 
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Offline Grayfox

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2018, 03:10:48 AM »
Valimaties - cant count how often I have seen this or similar sentiment on this forum, and I don't think it makes sense. Over 60s do not disappear, they get replaced by the current over 50s, then the next lot who are currently over 40s. As these people progress to their 50s and 60s they usually develop the same interests and tastes as the previous lot. The people buying these instruments today are not the same ones who bought them 10 years ago, or who bought home organs ( the predecessor) 20 years ago. They get constantly replaced. This market is far from reducing - it is actually increasing because people are living longer, retiring younger and are more affluent.
Mike

I think people largely stick with the music of their youth and that remains their favourite style for the rest of their life. I changed from piano to organ when I was 25 and then to Tyros when I was about 65 so the 60’s are very much my best loved, but at 73 I still love to play light classical and loads of musicals from many generations.
The trouble is the teenagers of today only seem to like today’s music, and would rather listen to someone else making it, so they don’t come along to organ clubs, so have no need of a keyboard.
Graham
Graham Foxall

Current Yamaha GENOS + GNS MS01
with 2 Yamaha MSR100 Speakers
 

Offline mikf

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2018, 04:55:45 AM »
Graham - I have to disagree a bit, I play a lot of music that was popular long before I was a teenager, almost everything from the Great American Songbook for example, because its just great music. And I don't believe that what teenagers are doing is relevant - they are 40 years away form being customers for arrangers or whatever replaces them by then. On the other hand, I see many people in their 40s and 50s and their musical tastes are not so different from mine. They like good tunes they can remember.
The actual songs played being different doesn't matter too much, unless the way that it is made is very different. Basically the vast majority of music played by everyone over 30 is melody and chord based, and it doesn't matter whether it is from the 50s, 80s, or 90s, you make that music in approximately the same way. Now I agree that some of the new genres are based on different music making techniques - like EDM and RAP- but those are 30 years away from being the music that a future 60 year old grew up with and no arranger company is changing to meet requirement that are still 30 years away and even then not certain because I am not convinced that along the way the musical tastes of those current 20 year olds and teenagers will not modify to be similar to 60 year olds today. 
Mike
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2018, 05:44:29 AM »
I am going to have agree with Graham on this one. It has been my experience that the music my audiences like best, was music that was popular when they were between the ages of 15 and 35 years of age. Beyond 35 years of age, most folks are far too busy raising their families, buried in debt, working more than one job to make ends meet, etc... They really don't have time to listen to music, can't afford to go to concerts, nite clubs and high end restaurants that have featured entertainment.

Ironically, when I performed in the Florida Keys for the spring breakers, college kids ranging up to 25 years of age, the songs the ladies requested were Sinatra, Jimmy Buffett, Rod Stewart, and lots of country and 60s/70s Rock and Roll. They didn't to hear hip-hop, rap and EDM at all, which I didn't and wouldn't perform. Now, the ladies on spring break were whom I was playing for. They wanted to party, have fun and dance. The guys were there to get drunk and score - that's it! The guys could care less about dancing with the ladies, and I sincerely believe that most of them couldn't dance if you paid them to do so.

One of the reasons I was very successful in the musical entertainment business had nothing to do with my musical abilities. I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, a musician - I'm an entertainer that can play an arranger keyboard. I was always able to look at the audience and determine what they wanted to hear from the very first song to the last. Essentially, this was referred to as "reading the audience." If you cannot do this, you will have a difficult time becoming a successful entertainer. Now Liberace was a fantastic musician, but additionally, he was a fantastic entertainer.

Think about it!

Gary  8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2018, 06:04:50 AM »
There's that dose of common sense again from Gary! Well written my friend. I agree 100 percent.

I'm in year number 25, playing in the same duet with a guitarist/singer. We are competent musicians but by no means stars. We do, however, connect very well with our audience. That makes up for any shortcomings in musical talent. We play the same genres as you described them in your post.
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline mikf

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2018, 07:43:09 AM »
I think you may have missed my point, I am not talking about the songs that are played. I was challenging this stream of statements that arrangers will die out with the current generation of older players.
When I was about 40 and playing gigs I got to know a retired gentleman named Frank who had bought a home organ. That was not all that common then because they were an expensive decision. He had bought it when he retired from the police force because he always wanted to learn to play an instrument. He was in his sixties but to all intents and purposes what Frank was playing on the home organ then was not all that different to what I hear the members of this forum playing today. That was 30 years ago! So why are we so convinced  the current arranger playing generation will not be continually replaced? This idea that there is not a continuous ( growing) stream of replacements for the current arranger players makes no sense. It wold be like saying that nursing homes will all go out of business once the old people die off!
The TOTL arranger doesn't need radical re design to stay attractive to its market - it just has to evolve as it has done for over 30 years from home organs to what we have today.  And the change is slow because the primary arranger buyers of tomorrow are already 40 and 50 plus, not 20. They are mostly already listening to Michael Buble, and Andrea Bocelli, and remembering the music of ABBA and Pink Floyd, and that is all playable on the current arrangers just as easily as songs of the sixtes, or the Great American Songbook of the 30s, 40s and 50s.
 
Mike
 

Offline Lee Batchelor

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2018, 08:11:07 AM »
Good points, Mike. And as I see it, Genos caters to all audiences. I have absolutely no interest in EDM, Rap, nor other similar styles Genos offers. I'm happy if I can still play all my favorites I've played with Bob (my duet partner) for the past 25 years. Every PSR, Tyros, and now Genos has filled that need. I doubt that will change. Yamaha seems to always go with the flow - be it oldies or newies.

Now, if Yamaha could just bring in one more Genos to Canada for little old me, I'd be even happier. Perhaps our Canadian Winter NAMM attendees are still hung over and have forgotten how to place the order from Yamaha Corp ;)!
Current Gear: Genos, SoundCraft mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, 15 inch sub designed and built by myself, Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, Cubase 8 Artist, Steinberg UR-44.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Real Reason
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2018, 08:26:00 PM »
Hi Lee,
  I do hope you get your Genos soon as you will be in for hours of enjoyment. I to am not interested in EDM and head banging styles but as you say Yamaha tries to cater for everyone's taste and dose a very good job of this.
 
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