Author Topic: tear down of the Genos  (Read 15168 times)

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ash1

  • Guest
tear down of the Genos
« on: October 11, 2017, 11:16:11 AM »
i wonder if this guy will do a teardown of the Genos when it has been out for a while and what he will find inside
just like he did with the tyros 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJPl_Kp06AY
 

Offline voodoo

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2017, 11:19:29 AM »
For me as a computer scientist it is not interesting what hardware is in there. Todays, most features are software based.  8)
Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Yamaha P-125 Digital Piano
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline maartenb

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2017, 12:42:58 PM »
Markus Fuller will make a video as soon as he has a chance to open up a Genos, I think!

This may take a while, since all Genosses are still under warranty...


Maarten
 

ash1

  • Guest
Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 12:56:43 PM »
hi maartenb
i agree might take a while im sure a lot of people would like to see what components yamaha have put inside the Genos
he is a highly skilled  guy
i dont think i would even attempt to open up my tyros 5 let alone a brand new Genos  :)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 01:06:59 PM by ash1 »
 

Offline Tommy 73

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 01:20:05 PM »
May be he could take a look in side my mother-in-laws head as I here she is coming over on Sunday and apparently is going to tell me...why I don't need another keyboard (Genos) I think some where along the line she has been "Over Clocked" and perhaps M.Fuller could reverse this for me... Great "you tube channel" and a wonderfully rendition from M.F on his Montage the other day 8)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 05:28:27 PM by Tommy 73 »
Yamaha Montage M8x : Korg PA5X 76  : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
 

organaut

  • Guest
Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2017, 01:38:32 PM »
Hi Ash,  :) I have asked Markus for you as you may know he is my partner. Although he is interested in possibly buying a Genos for himself, he probably won;t tear it down to make a video as there was nothing much to see of any interest in the previous Tyros videos he made.
Tommy, as for your mother in law, how long would the tear down take. We only have a limit of 15 minutes on youtube ?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 01:39:47 PM by organaut »
 
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ash1

  • Guest
Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2017, 04:07:58 PM »
hi organaut
that was really nice of you to ask Markus about the Genos
i didnt know Markus was your partner
i dont blame him one false move with a £4500 Genos and it would be goodnight vienna  :P :)
he did a great job opening the tyros/4/5
if i did that i would left with a yamaha jigsaw puzzle  :)
many thanks again  :)

i forgot it was Markus who did the push 2 teardown that was  good one when he lifted the lid off to find all those signatures inside the lid
organaut can you pass on my thanks i know a lot of people really appreciated Markus doing the videos
i wouldnt try that either with my push 2 lol
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 04:26:41 PM by ash1 »
 

Offline pjd

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2017, 05:23:19 PM »
For me as a computer scientist it is not interesting what hardware is in there. 8)

Gasp!  :D  :D  :D  :D

-- pj


Offline Joe H

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2017, 06:59:26 PM »
Gasp!  :D  :D  :D  :D

-- pj

Well pj you have to admit that you can have all the BEST hardware in the world, but without the software, it's like a car with gasoline.

The hardware makes Genos sound fabulous, but how well we can make use of the darn thing is due to good programming.

 ;)

Kind Regards,
Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline pjd

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2017, 09:32:42 PM »
Well pj you have to admit that you can have all the BEST hardware in the world, but without the software, it's like a car with gasoline.

Never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D  ;D

-- pj

Mendel

  • Guest
Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2017, 10:37:08 PM »
Well pj you have to admit that you can have all the BEST hardware in the world, but without the software, it's like a car with gasoline.

The hardware makes Genos sound fabulous, but how well we can make use of the darn thing is due to good programming.

..and that is why back than in the 60's and 70's microsoft
was the champion of the computer-tech race [microsoft was involved
in software while ibm were basically only involved in hardware]


mendel
 
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Offline travlin-easy

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2017, 10:45:10 PM »
Just looking inside at the hardware and PC boards, the advancements in micro-electronic technology lately, may have significantly reduced the component size and configuration to the point where the entire mother board may be the size of a package of cigarettes. ;) Don't believe that 99.9-percent of those that view the internal hardware would have a clue what they were actually looking at. :)

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2017, 11:09:58 PM »
A doctor lifted the lid on me  and took out a Kidney Stone and a gall Bladder!! :-[

Lucky he left the organ alone ;D

Still a few screws missing on the casing though!! :o
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

ash1

  • Guest
Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2017, 11:44:48 PM »
hi Gary i was just wondering what your basing the 99.9-percent on
 

ash1

  • Guest
Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2017, 03:05:42 AM »
hi ugawoga
sounds like operation  :) ??? :P ::) :-\ :-X ;) :)

[attachment deleted by admin]
 

Offline voodoo

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2017, 12:12:16 PM »
Gasp!  :D  :D  :D  :D

-- pj

Ouch. I did not say, that the hardware is not important. Of course it is......  ??? 8)
Yamaha Genos
Yamaha MODX7
Yamaha P-125 Digital Piano
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline pjd

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2017, 03:08:36 PM »
Ouch. I did not say, that the hardware is not important. Of course it is......  ??? 8)

Just kidding, Uli! (A bad attempt at self-deprecating humor.)  ;)

Hey, just checked the date of the Japanese patent on the tone generator memory interface: November 2012. So, engineers at Yamaha already had a vision of the future Genos platform 5 years ago. And then Yamaha management took the risk to develop the integrated circuit and hardware/software platform which we finally see in Genos.

Maybe it's missing a few things here and there, but I admire their work and sing their praises.

All the best -- pj

 

Bachus

  • Guest
Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2017, 03:31:18 PM »
Ouch. I did not say, that the hardware is not important. Of course it is......  ??? 8)

I think what you meant to say is “the hardware is a fact you cant change”
The software however in any processor is most of the time much more fluent..

When you look at the Genos, there is several hardware things i dont like
- the knobs are just simple pots and not limitless encoders
- there is only 6 and not 8 of them.. 8 is the standard on midi controlers, and lots of software asumes there is 8 knobs in its default settings
- there are no 8 buttons under the sliders, they would be perfect as on/off or solo buttons or scenes or whatever you program them like
- there is no touchstrip..
- several other realtime buttons would be perfect for direct access to menu screens on the touchscreen.
- harmony/arp should have been atleast 2 buttons.
- half of the polyphony is reserved for expansion sounds, most people barely use... seems a hardware issue to me, indicationg 2 sepperate processors just like on the montage.
- There is no 88 key version(nor a 61 version)
And a few more like no dedicated video out, people have been complaining about

Now, these are issues for me, however its of no use complaining about them, as they are not going to be changed or fixed... they are facts, everyone has to live with...  these will never change untill Genos 2 arives..


Now the software is still liquid and able to be changed trough patches.. so thats where we can still help Yamaha making this a better experience..

And thats where Yamaha can still make a difference...
And thats why you will see all my criticisme aimed at the software
Because in my opinion patches can mean a lot

 

Offline pjd

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2017, 03:50:15 PM »
- half of the polyphony is reserved for expansion sounds, most people barely use... seems a hardware issue to me, indicating 2 separate processors just like on the Montage.

Yep, Bachus, this is curious.

I think Yamaha has future plans that they are not telling us about. If my conjecture about the hardware structure of the second tone generator is correct (assuming there are two TGs), then Yamaha should be able to stream audio directly into the second tone generator.

Really going out on a tree limb, this would be the appropriate structure for full audio styles. (Please don't gang tackle me, people.  :D ) The pitch bend hardware implements semi-tone transposition; all they need is hardware time stretch. I could go all the way out to the tip of the tree branch with more speculation, but I'd better stop here.

-- pj

P.S. When did they ever tell us about future plans?  :)

« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 06:21:02 PM by pjd »
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2017, 04:09:06 PM »
Ash, I base that upon more than a half century of working with musicians and entertainers, which is what mainly constitutes the membership of most music forums. Granted, a few folks would know an IC from a resistor, but the vast majority would not.

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

organaut

  • Guest
Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2017, 11:21:22 AM »
Ash, I have passed on your message of thanks to Markus. Got him thinking that he is going to sell his ableton push along with his synth gear including the Montage except of course for the big Moog so just have the Genos and Moog. (A leap of of faith or what) I’m sure if he likes the Genos after trying it out first we will be hearing plenty of Genos sounds in future videos he makes but sticking to his own compositions of course for copyright reasons. So it looks like there might be two Genos in our house because it wouldn’t be fair for me to keep gigging his.
Going back to the subject of Tyros teardowns around the time of the t5 td video Markus drew me out a simple design for the MS speaker input where the connections pins would be electronic rather than cable. I emailed it to one of the Yamaha reps but didn’t receive a reply of acknowledgment . Just thought I’d mention that. :) At least the speaker inputs on the Genos are back to as with Tyros 4 and much neater than on Tyros 5.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 11:33:04 AM by organaut »
 

ash1

  • Guest
Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2017, 11:48:51 AM »
hi organaut noooooooooooooooooooooo lol not the beloved push and synth gear and a montage he has the Genos bug bad
a leap of faith mmm well i have to be honest i have sold some of my gear before to buy something else
i think the Genos is the best arranger yet
 i wish the price was just a bit lower its a lot £4500
im still torn about trading up the tyros 5 on the Genos
i dont think i could sell any more of my gear lol
i will probably visit my local music retailer and have a play on the Genos and explore what it has to offer over the tyros 5
at least yamaha have Markus's design
MS speaker input where the connections pins would be electronic rather than cable sounds good to me
lets just hope they dont nick the idea   :)

all the best ash1



« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 02:02:24 PM by ash1 »
 

Offline svpworld

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2017, 08:16:12 AM »
I would be very interested in knowing a bit more about the inside workings of the Genos, mainly because of my electronics background and fascination with how Yamaha keyboards have progressed over the years.  I've still got my first Yamaha arranger keyboard, a PS30 which is fully analog! I've studied the service diagrams of my PSR-S950 and as you say it's more like a computer these days. My Montage uses the newer custom Yamaha chips which I believe also the PSR-S950 and Genos use, these overcome the memory limitations and probably help with the increased DSP functionality and higher audio quality.  I'm just curious to see how the Genos is built compared to the Montage or Motif, as I know the synths are made in Japan whilst arrangers are usually made in China (although under high quality control standards I'm sure). For a while I've always kept my arrangers purely for performing at church or for fun and used the more 'pro line' synths such as the Kronos or Montage/Motif in the home studio for recording. The audio quality of the latter has always sparkled and excelled.  However the game is changing and it sounds from the demos I've heard that the Genos is just as good as the Montage.   Interesting to read what Markus is considering as I've done exactly the same and are offloading my top end synth workstations for Genos.   At the end of the day I get a lot more fun and enjoyment out of sitting at the arranger than slaving hours or even days over the DAW and programming synths, although the latter is still enjoyable. Look forward anyway to see a future video from Markus discussing the Genos and his thoughts, and maybe even a peep under the hood!

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2017, 08:33:53 AM »
I am very happy we are getting some news from Simon ( svpworld ) !!! :)

A long time ago svpworld had a website and Simon made us very happy with his own made styles. I still have them all.
Very, very nice and very good quality !

Hope we will hear more from him !

Best regards, Jeff
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2017, 12:07:25 PM »
If you lift the lid what do you  get????


GENOS and CHIPS!! ;D
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2017, 03:50:53 PM »
Don't believe that 99.9-percent of those that view the internal hardware would have a clue what they were actually looking at. :)

All the best,

Gary 8)

True.

I opened up my Tyros twice.
Once to tighten a loose modulation wheel screw, which went ok.
The second time I tried to remove and open up the display screen, to try and repair a broken Exit button, and a couple of other buttons under the screen.
I quickly acknowledged my limitations after about half an hour and gave up.

I would like to give it another shot, but I fear that it will be as futile as the previous attempt.
And by the way, the plastic holes which hold the screws (on the inside) at the back of the Tyros break VERY easily.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 04:34:17 PM by Pianoman »
 

Offline Joe H

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2017, 05:10:53 PM »
Obviously that guy has some technical experience... look at the equipment around his workbench.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline svpworld

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2017, 06:27:37 PM »
I am very happy we are getting some news from Simon ( svpworld ) !!! :)

A long time ago svpworld had a website and Simon made us very happy with his own made styles. I still have them all.
Very, very nice and very good quality !

Hope we will hear more from him !

Best regards, Jeff

Thanks Jeff, yes I'm back!  It's been quite a while but the latest Genos is rekindling my interest!  I am currently use the PSR-S950 on the arranger side, though I've been using synths a lot more with my DAW to create covers for my own entertainment and learning process.  I've tried a lot of different top end keyboards from various manufacturers but realised my heart is always in Yamaha!

Simon

Jean Abdou

  • Guest
Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2017, 09:08:41 PM »
Well pj you have to admit that you can have all the BEST hardware in the world, but without the software, it's like a car with gasoline.

The hardware makes Genos sound fabulous, but how well we can make use of the darn thing is due to good programming.

 ;)

Kind Regards,
Joe H
For me as a computer scientist it is not interesting what hardware is in there. Todays, most features are software based.  8)

You can only play music with software without the hardware in your imagination or dreams. A true computer scientist should
know that at its core, a hardware is either the physical implementation of a software or it is tangled with software (Like the real-time OS running in Genos and Montage).

I actually appreciate if Yamaha could make an FPGA based synthesizer. I believe software (indirect implementation which runs on a micro controller's OS) is BS when it comes to music.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 09:10:10 PM by Jean Abdou »
 

Offline svpworld

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2017, 05:37:52 AM »
No-one yet taken a peak inside Genos?   Organaut, any thoughts from Markus on getting himself a Genos?  Tell him I haven't regretted for one second trading my Montage and Kronos for it!

Simon
 

Offline pjd

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2017, 02:20:04 PM »
I will eventually write a longer description of the Genos™ compute complex. Here’s a few facts to tide you over:

The main CPU is a 1GHz TI AM4376 Sitara Cortex-A9 ARM processor (AM4376BZDN100).
There are two SWP70 tone generator (TG) integrated circuits.
The master TG has 2GBytes (physical) of wave memory (Winbond W29N08GVSIAA).
The slave TG has 4GBytes (physical) of wave memory.
The internal memory is a Toshiba 64GByte eMMC device (THGBMGG9T4LBAIR).

The eMMC device is where you’ll find the “58GByte internal memory.” The eMMC is connected to one of the ARM’s two MMC interfaces.

The Montage’s main CPU is an 800MHz TI AM3352 Sitara Cortex-A8 ARM processor (AM3352BZCZ80). Whose the big brother and the little tag-along?  :)

Too busy playing to study more schematics.  :)

-- pj

Technology blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net

 
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Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2017, 03:35:29 PM »
to answer to voodoo (Without polemic at all), I would like to know how many big pc usual intel configurations and vst software licenses are necessary to imitate genos power and its real-time capabilities.
 
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Offline svpworld

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2018, 08:25:52 AM »
Thanks for that insight pjd,  does that mean a schematic is available for Genos?  :-)

Simon


I will eventually write a longer description of the Genos™ compute complex. Here’s a few facts to tide you over:

The main CPU is a 1GHz TI AM4376 Sitara Cortex-A9 ARM processor (AM4376BZDN100).
There are two SWP70 tone generator (TG) integrated circuits.
The master TG has 2GBytes (physical) of wave memory (Winbond W29N08GVSIAA).
The slave TG has 4GBytes (physical) of wave memory.
The internal memory is a Toshiba 64GByte eMMC device (THGBMGG9T4LBAIR).

The eMMC device is where you’ll find the “58GByte internal memory.” The eMMC is connected to one of the ARM’s two MMC interfaces.

The Montage’s main CPU is an 800MHz TI AM3352 Sitara Cortex-A8 ARM processor (AM3352BZCZ80). Whose the big brother and the little tag-along?  :)

Too busy playing to study more schematics.  :)

-- pj

Technology blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net
 

Offline pjd

Re: tear down of the Genos
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2018, 03:48:10 PM »
Thanks for that insight pjd,  does that mean a schematic is available for Genos?  :-)

Hi Simon --

The Yamaha service manuals include a block diagram and schematics as well as disassembly information, self-test, etc. Although Markus is entertaining, the service manuals are fair more detailed and definitive.

Happy new year!

-- pj