Author Topic: Genos will have Montage technology  (Read 2004 times)

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Offline maartenb

Genos will have Montage technology
« on: June 16, 2017, 01:31:39 PM »
On the French Yamaha forum, I found a post from Alain from June 8th, 2017:
Quote
Good evening, attention, the new GENOS is going to be more oriented [towards] MONTAGE than TYROS 5 while being a new arranger ...
But you are right to reserve it because it will really be nice this GENOS ......
Alain

When someone asks whether this means more editing options, Alain answers with:
Quote
I can not say more (hush)

Source: http://www.audiokeys.net/forum/showthread.php/51101-Yamaha-GENOS/page2


This means to me:
  • The thing is real. It exists.
  • The name will be Genos
  • It will have a touch screen and interface that looks more like the Montage than the Tyros. That also means one can still operate the Genos with buttons if one chooses not to use the touch screen.
  • It will sound great (probably using the same sound chip as the Montage)
  • It will be a real arranger with focus on real-time playing
  • It will be a new arranger concept and break away from the Tyros (in a good way)

Looks promising. We'll see (and hear!) in the Fall...


Maarten
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 04:22:03 AM by maartenb »
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2017, 01:43:46 PM »
maartenb,

I think your assessment is right on.  Smaller lighter GENOS with touch screen and lots of buttons, maybe encoder knobs and sliders. It will probably look something like the Montage, MOXF or S970... more synth-like in appearance.

Also more real-time control plus an arpeggiator, higher capacity on-board MIDI sequencer 110 to 120 note capacity.  New processors with better sound, maybe more insert DSPs.  All for a new lower price point.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2017, 04:39:56 AM »
Thank you very much, Maarten for this very interesting link. :)
Cross our fingers ...

Jeff
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2017, 05:04:07 AM »
Well if its focus is on real time playing I shall be very happy.

Offline Bachus

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2017, 05:33:34 AM »
maartenb,

I think your assessment is right on.  Smaller lighter GENOS with touch screen and lots of buttons, maybe encoder knobs and sliders. It will probably look something like the Montage, MOXF or S970... more synth-like in appearance.

Also more real-time control plus an arpeggiator, higher capacity on-board MIDI sequencer 110 to 120 note capacity.  New processors with better sound, maybe more insert DSPs.  All for a new lower price point.

Joe H

If its anything like the Montage, forget about smaller and lighter....


But when i look at the montage interface... there is enough room for arranger functionallity just above the keys.. you can have 2 rows of buttons over the full length..

If so, Yamaha could save a huge amount of money by addapting the Montage hardware and software towards an arranger...   just 3 models like the montage, 61, 76 and 88, with added arranger buttons and functionllity.. all the need to do is drill extra holes and put some buttons in them...  they might cut the FM part and make it 256 voices AWM2 polyphony.. 

Expected prices... add 1000 to 1500 to the Montage prices.. 
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline J. Larry

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2017, 07:57:50 AM »
Just wondering-----among arranger players, how many want, need, or would use many of the advancements, additions, and functionality often requested here?  Is it many, just a few, or somewhere in between?  Does Yamaha know?  Or, is it that the majority of arranger buyers (or a silent group) just want a good-sounding instrument that they can turn on and play, with little fuss or need for advanced editing, or messing with lots of knobs, faders, buttons, sliders, etc.?
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2017, 08:53:19 AM »
Hi,

Yamaha will never produce an 88 k Arranger Keyboard.
I wonder if they will continue their 76 keys version.
I have no idea how many 76 key T5 pieces Yamaha have sold.

Keep in mind Yamaha stopped the production of all 76 k arranger keyboards after the PSR9000 Pro.
Tyros1, 2,3 and 4 : 61 keys only.

Plse do not expect the Genos will have many features of the Montage. The Genos will remain an arranger keyboard and not a synth.
Maybe the colour will be the same. Black. ;).


Yamaha want to serve their favourite customer group first : the Home Player.

The Home Player is looking for a plug-and-play arranger keyboard with a great pro sound and a built in vocal harmonizer.
The Home Player wants a one band instrument. He is not playing with other musicians nor interested in professional recording studio work.

Will Yamaha also add a complete new speaker system and a new stand ?
It is hard to believe, after 15 years Tyros Dynasty, Yamaha will continue their present Tyros speakers and stand. 

Best regards, Jeff













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Offline Joe H

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2017, 12:25:30 PM »
If its anything like the Montage, forget about smaller and lighter....


But when i look at the montage interface... there is enough room for arranger functionallity just above the keys.. you can have 2 rows of buttons over the full length..

If so, Yamaha could save a huge amount of money by addapting the Montage hardware and software towards an arranger...   just 3 models like the montage, 61, 76 and 88, with added arranger buttons and functionllity.. all the need to do is drill extra holes and put some buttons in them...  they might cut the FM part and make it 256 voices AWM2 polyphony.. 

Expected prices... add 1000 to 1500 to the Montage prices..

My meaning was smaller and lighter than the current Tyros.  We will NOT see the GENOS as a Montage with arranger functions. This will not happen.  Probably will be more like the S770 / S970 with no speakers and some nice improvements and enhancements we already discussed.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2017, 02:54:14 PM »
Just wondering-----among arranger players, how many want, need, or would use many of the advancements, additions, and functionality often requested here?  Is it many, just a few, or somewhere in between?  Does Yamaha know?  Or, is it that the majority of arranger buyers (or a silent group) just want a good-sounding instrument that they can turn on and play, with little fuss or need for advanced editing, or messing with lots of knobs, faders, buttons, sliders, etc.?

Maybe we should ask ourself, how many people would switch to Genos from other models, if it combined arranger features with features from Montage?

To keep arrangers alive, they need to pull in new people...

Because most current tyros5 players dont have any clue what to wish for in the next arranger as they are perfectly happy with tyros5...
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2017, 06:17:57 PM »
Just wondering-----among arranger players, how many want, need, or would use many of the advancements, additions, and functionality often requested here?  Is it many, just a few, or somewhere in between?  Does Yamaha know?  Or, is it that the majority of arranger buyers (or a silent group) just want a good-sounding instrument that they can turn on and play, with little fuss or need for advanced editing, or messing with lots of knobs, faders, buttons, sliders, etc.?

I think the answer to that question is up to Yamaha.  This forum only represents a fraction of all arranger owners in the world. So what we read here is relevant to this forum only... but Yamaha does read it.

Do Yamaha only want to sell the next arranger as the same old arranger they already have to the same people in their 60s, 70s and 80s or will it be something new and better appealing to new and younger customers.  Remember they don't take away features, they always add more to each new model.

And keep in mind that any manufacturer can only make a keyboard for all users.  Take it or leave it.  None of us uses every feature of our arranger keyboard.  That's just how it is.

Joe H
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 06:32:57 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2017, 12:00:30 AM »
Hi Joe,


01. Remember they don't take away features, they always add more to each new model.

Y ( = Yami ) removed the Voice Creator from the T5.
At that time all T5 endusers were very disappointed and unhappy. Y were obliged to create a win prog to replace the Voice Creator.  ???
It took more than 6 months before this prog was available.

I wonder if the Voice Creator will come back in the Genos.

02. Do Y only want to sell the next  as the same old  they already have to the same people in their 60s, 70s and 80s or will it be something new and better appealing to new and younger customers.

Most young musicians are absolutely not interested in playing arr kbs.
They go for a synth, a piano or a midi kb.

Will that change when the Genos will be on the market ?

In the meantime the whole world thinks/believes the Genos will be launched at the end of this year.
Most dealers keep no longer T5 stock and apparently they do not know more than we do. :-\ 
 
Everybody expects a complete new concept ( new software, touch screen, additional knobs, extra faders, arp etc. etc. ).

Since Y do not show any photos nor specs ( yet ) ... we only can speculate. :P
It looks like even their dealers have not received any information yet ???

Will the Genos be so spectacular ? ... only Y know the answer.

Jeff



« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 12:12:46 AM by Jeff Hollande »
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Offline EileenL

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2017, 04:51:23 AM »
As always with Yamaha the people that know anything have to sign a non discloser document and if breeched it is immediate dismissal. Dealers, like us will only know anything certain a few weeks before hand. All we have to do now is wait and if we like what we see we then, buy or not. It has always been the same.
  As the 76 note Tyros has been so popular I think they will keep in in the new model. As a mainly sit and play person I am looking for a lot more new styles and not Audio ones. I personally do not want a touch screen. Buttons more positive in fast moves. Hope the speaker system is altered as I do not like those wires running along the back of the keyboard. Not to keen on black as it tends to show up marks of wear more easily. The S970 is a very dark grey and so far is wearing well but I have not had it as long as my trusty Tyros 5.
   October will soon be here in the meantime enjoy your summer holidays.

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2017, 05:03:57 AM »
Hi Eileen,

Wishful thinking maybe ?
I agree, hopefully audio styles are no longer available in the Genos ... who knows. Cross my fingers.  ::)

Jeff
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2017, 07:48:50 AM »
1. Y ( = Yami ) ...removed the Voice Creator from the T5... At that time all T5 end users were very disappointed and unhappy.

2. ... Most young musicians are absolutely not interested in playing arr kbs.  They go for a synth, a piano or a midi kb.

3. ... Everybody expects a complete new concept ( new software, touch screen, additional knobs, extra faders, arp etc. etc. )... Will the Genos be so spectacular ? ... only Y know the answer.

Jeff

Well, it's all a matter of personal interpretation I think.

1. Voice creator was not removed, it was moved to a software version in YEM which is better and works for other keyboard models too.

2. If Yamaha produce a arranger keyboard with NO content for young musicians then... why would they buy one?

3. Not a new concept... the S970 is not a new concept, just stuff borrowed from other keyboards.  Yamaha just added real-time controls, an arpeggiator (these were in the low-end $400.00 USD arranger already) and also added EDM styles (DJ Styles) which is old stuff from the DJX-II keyboard and also added more synth Voices from the Motif  So expanding on what is offered in the S970 just might attract a new generation buyer. 

Expansion Packs for the high-end PSRs was not a new concept either, just new for the PSR borrowed from the Tyros and Motif.

We will all know soon enough what Yamaha has come up with.

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 01:23:42 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2017, 08:39:15 AM »
Hi John :

It looks like the Genos will receive a complete new styles - and voice structure that cannot be played by all previous Yami arr kbs.

Jeff
XGW - SONAR PLATINUM - CUBASE 8 WIN - MIXCRAFT8
 

Offline billtracy

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2017, 08:41:44 AM »
Just wondering-----among arranger players, how many want, need, or would use many of the advancements, additions, and functionality often requested here?  Is it many, just a few, or somewhere in between?  Does Yamaha know?  Or, is it that the majority of arranger buyers (or a silent group) just want a good-sounding instrument that they can turn on and play, with little fuss or need for advanced editing, or messing with lots of knobs, faders, buttons, sliders, etc.?

You have described my needs here perfectly. :)
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2017, 10:16:44 AM »
Just wondering-----among arranger players, how many want, need, or would use many of the advancements, additions, and functionality often requested here?  Is it many, just a few, or somewhere in between?  Does Yamaha know?  Or, is it that the majority of arranger buyers (or a silent group) just want a good-sounding instrument that they can turn on and play, with little fuss or need for advanced editing, or messing with lots of knobs, faders, buttons, sliders, etc.?

Isnt that instrument allready available, its called the Tyros 5.. 

If those are your needs, i dont see much reason for upgrading from a Tyros 5 anyhow..
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline metcam

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2017, 11:31:48 AM »
My opinions:

The New Yamaha arranger need to have "Total voice creator" and "Total style creator " on board .

YEM is OK too,,so problem will be fixed automatically for all Who like either way.

Regards


« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 11:35:25 AM by metcam »
Curent Instruments: Tyros5-61,,,PSR-A3000
Previus instruments:PSR9000,Tyros2,Tyros3,psr2000,psr2100,psr1500,psr530,psr OR700,DX7,DX11,V50,DX21.
KORG:pa800,KORG PA-900,Triton Extreme,Triton rack,.KORG X3,Roland G600.Roland D20.........
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2017, 11:42:55 AM »
My opinions:

The New Yamaha arranger need to have "Total voice creator" and "Total style creator " on board .

YEM is OK too,,so problem will be fixed automatically for all Who like either way.

Regards

metcam,

If Yamaha add complete Voice creation / editing on-board then the next arranger would technically be a true synth keyboard (by Yamaha definition).  I don't think we will see that... but we will know soon I'm sure.

Joe H
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 01:19:09 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2017, 11:44:17 AM »
Isnt that instrument allready available, its called the Tyros 5.. 

If those are your needs, i dont see much reason for upgrading from a Tyros 5 anyhow..

I agree... if you want the same old, same old thing... then don't upgrade.

Joe H
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 11:50:24 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2017, 11:49:19 AM »
Hi John :

It looks like the Genos will receive a complete new styles - and voice structure that cannot be played by all previous Yami arr kbs.

Jeff

Jeff,

I doubt that Yamaha will change the basic format of Voices.  It is possible they might re-arrange the order of Voice parameters just to prevent pirating and free exchange between keyboard models. 

A reliable source on the forum explained years ago that the Motif and Tyros Voices were the same except that Yamaha reversed the order of the editable parameters so that Motif owners and Tyros owners could not exchange Voices.

As far as styes go... pj's investigations tell us that we may see an expanded audio style format which includes audio Bass and possibly other audio style parts. Yes, those would be incompatible with current arrangers, but it is unlikely that the current style format would be eliminated on the next arranger and therefore having no backward compatibility for the many thousands of styles already produced by Yamaha.

Joe H

 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 06:34:55 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Robert van Weersch

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2017, 11:20:50 PM »
I wonder if they will continue their 76 keys version.
I have no idea how many 76 key T5 pieces Yamaha have sold.
My dealer sold the T5 mostly in 76 key versions, so there is quite some demand for it.
---
Yamaha Tyros 5 76
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2017, 01:07:25 AM »
Not to mention that Yamaha has now introduced two new 76-key models in the PSR-E series -- the PSR-EW300 and PSR-EW400.  So, it seems like interest is growing in 76-key models.
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2017, 04:02:07 AM »
Yes the 76 note Tyros 5 sold very well here in the UK but is mainly home players that use it as it is very heavy to transport round. Needs a large vehicle to.
  I don't think Yamaha would take away the use of many styles people have been collecting being used in a new keyboard. It would not be a very popular move.
  Surly it is up to members if they choose to change for the new model even if they don't want to use some of the new features. These boards are produced for general use across the board. They could not possibly produce models that only contain what you want to use. I choose my new keyboards for sound quality from the unit its self, if it is good then it will amp up well. Also good styles that are usable over a wide range of songs. Ease of use and of course it is always nice to have something new.
 

Offline pjd

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2017, 05:39:20 AM »
Hi --

Even though Montage has many wonderful new features and tech, Yamaha did its best to maintain compatibility with the Motif XF. You can find all of the old XF voices and all of the old XF arpeggios (musical phrases). I suspect that the new TOTL arranger will do the same WRT current Tyros voices and styles.

MIDI playback and styles are not going to disappear. If there are new styles, they will be MIDI plus audio. So, all old MIDI styles are just a subset of the new software architecture.

All that said, I speculate that the new TOTL will be a major generational change. We won't necessarily be able to take new GENOS styles, make a few simple edits (e.g., voice replacement) and play the new styles on old models. We already confront this limitation with current audio styles.

I agree with Joe to a large extent. The main incompatibility between Motif and Tyros/PSR is architectural. Tyros/PSR is based on the XG architecture; Motif is the classic AWM2 synth voice architecture. The software representations are fundamentally different. I don't think Yamaha did this to be devious -- it reflects the company's split personality going all the way back to the first appearance of XG -- an accident (artifact) of history.

Only Yamaha really knows about the TOTL at this point. We ought to have an acronym for that! OYRK :-)

I'm really quite excited to see what's next. Still happy to play my S950, too.

-- pj

Offline Bachus

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2017, 12:19:57 PM »
OYRK as in Only Yamaha Really Knows?

I have another one YKB...which reflects their actions for the last two decades..
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2017, 02:08:14 PM »
Hi

Any Improvements to real time playing Is a must coupled with Daw compatibility.
I would like to see an end to YEM as loading takes an eternity sometimes having to load everything every time.
Better sounds
More memory
Also no glitching between registrations when different sounds are put In each section.

Daw compatibility with the Tyros 5 is hopeless as the sys ex does not talk between keyboard and daw100%  The zeros and ones are always a few ticks out In event lists
Daw companies like Sonar and Cubase are only interested In VST Instruments


Also has anyone noticed when editing In a daw you get a lot of unwanted flack, like bits of notes scattered everywhere. Tracks are not totally clean after recording.
This you can see especially in the Style section recorded.

To be honest you can make arpeggios easily without machines.
Better still If daw compatibility was great you can always use VST for things like that and add midi to vst. You know what I mean.


All the Best
John
Oh well we are all wetting our Knickers waiting for this new keyboard to happen!!! :-\ :o
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 02:11:35 PM by ugawoga »
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2017, 02:09:49 PM »
I have another one YKB...which reflects their actions for the last two decades..

Well, sometimes they listen to us... as long as we don't tell them they are wrong or that they made a mistake.   ;D

 ;)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2017, 02:51:44 PM »
Far to late for any wishes to be applied now so as always we are back to waiting until it comes out.

Offline pjd

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2017, 05:28:08 AM »
Here, here, Eileen!

The GENOS (or whatever) code was probably frozen months ago and the axxe is in final testing and voice/content development.

We should start a "GENOS 2" thread, he said, quickly ducking behind a rock to hide.  ;D

All the best -- pj

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2017, 08:37:56 AM »
Eileen is absolutely right.

Early next month first shipments will leave Japan to arrive early October 2017.
Then the real show will start.

It is so strange Yamaha do not say one word about the new highend machine.
Maybe it will be completely different than we all think. 8)

Jeff
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 08:46:35 AM by Jeff Hollande »
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Offline ugawoga

Re: Genos will have Montage technology
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2017, 11:15:03 AM »
Hi Jeff


Thank god they are not made in China :-[


All the best
John :o