Author Topic: PSR-E443 Newbie Questions Chord Piano Styles  (Read 680 times)

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PSR-E443 Newbie Questions Chord Piano Styles
« on: April 21, 2017, 08:26:49 AM »
Hi hope you can help a newbie?

Can anyone recommend a good acoustic piano setting for the PSR-E443 (Elton John Style)

I treated my self last year to a E-443 (which I love) to progress from a Guitar chord strummer to learn music theory.

The problem is, that when I use the Grand Piano or other Piano style settings the sound is just not quite right!

If I use a DAW (Mixcraft VST or Reaper) no problem.

Maybe I'm expecting to much from a low end keyboard
Hope this makes sense!!
Thanks
Derick Johnson
Manchester UK

 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: PSR-E443 Newbie Questions Chord Piano Styles
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 10:06:45 AM »
Is there a particular Elton John song that you're trying to play, such as "Benny and the Jets" or "Your Song"? You might need to select a specific Piano voice (such as "Bright Piano" versus "Grand Piano") and tweak it a certain way depending on the song, so it will help to know which song(s) you're especially interested in.

If you're able to get the kind of piano sound you're looking for from a virtual instrument in Mixcraft, what you might try is see if you can identify what settings the virtual instrument is using for that sound-- that is, if the virtual instrument has settings that you can see and tweak, such as are available in Pianissimo. This might give you some clues as to what settings to tweak on the PSR-E443 to hopefully get a similar sort of piano sound.

I have a PSR-E443, as well as Mixcraft with Pianissimo, so if you can point me toward the Elton John song(s) you're aiming at, and/or tell me which Piano sound(s) you like in Mixcraft, I'll see whether I can coax anything similar from my PSR-E443.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Re: PSR-E443 Newbie Questions Chord Piano Styles
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2017, 01:31:36 AM »
Thanks for reply. No particular song's, just the general Grand Piano voice. Will try your suggestion with the Mixcraft DAW and try to tweak the settings to match.

Thanks again for the quick reply.
Regards
Derick Johnson
 

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: PSR-E443 Newbie Questions Chord Piano Styles
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2017, 02:28:39 AM »
I fiddled about on my PSR-E443, and I thought the Grand Piano voice sounded pretty good as is-- but I'm probably not as picky about acoustic piano voices as many keyboardists are. I thought the Bright Piano, CP80, and MIDI Grand Piano also sounded pretty good, although I've never been overly fond of the Honky-tonk Piano voice.

There were a few things that I noticed. The Ultra-Wide Stereo effect can either help or hurt the quality of a voice's sound, depending on the voice. Cranking up the Resonance can also help some voices, but you have to experiment with different Cutoff settings to find one you like, and a given Cutoff setting can have different impacts depending on which octave you're playing in. Adding Chorus to the Piano voice made them sound worse in my opinion-- but adding Chorus to other types of voices can help.

When playing chords, I think that some intervals-- the Perfect Fifth and Major Third, for example-- can sound a bit off, due to the effects of Equal Temperament tuning. You might want to experiment with the Scale Tuning function to get more harmonious-sounding chords.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Re: PSR-E443 Newbie Questions Chord Piano Styles
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2017, 03:38:02 AM »
Thanks again, I think you have solved my dilemma with the Scale Tuning function.

I have noticed that Chords sound much more richer on left hand scale range than the right. Will get the book out and experiment.

Thanks
Derick Johnson
 
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Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: PSR-E443 Newbie Questions Chord Piano Styles
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 11:07:36 AM »
You know, when you said something about the Piano voice sounding "not quite right," I had assumed you meant the quality of the wave samples, or something about the timbre that needed tweaking. But as I was playing with the LPF Cutoff/Resonance settings on the Grand Piano voice, I was noticing how the chords had a bit of dissonant interaction between the frequencies of the notes, which seemed to be accentuated by certain LPF settings. And while I was posting my observations, I took another look at the thread's title-- "Chord Piano Styles"-- which made me think that perhaps you really meant the consonance or dissonance of the various note intervals.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid the Scale Tuning feature is going to be a bit of a trade-off, since the whole reason Equal Temperament tuning was adopted in the first place is to ensure that the different intervals are always consistent no matter what keys they're played in, not to mention getting rid of ear-jarring wolf intervals. Of course, it also means perfect fifths and other intervals no longer have pleasing harmonic relationships between the notes! So you can get more consonant intervals by changing the note tunings of the scale, but you also have to choose a specific "base" key for the scale when you tune.

Another thing to keep in mind with regard to the Scale Tuning feature is that the adjustments are in terms of cents, whereas the difference between the tunings of a perfect fifth in Equal Temperament versus Just Intonation is an oddball irrational value. Thus, it probably won't be possible to get an exact 3:2, or 4:3, or 5:4, etc., harmonic relationship between the notes, so you'll have to settle for whichever whole-cent offsets are closest to the perfect harmonic ratios.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline SciNote

Re: PSR-E443 Newbie Questions Chord Piano Styles
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2017, 10:34:24 AM »
How about something like this... ?  :D

https://app.box.com/s/lgqt2kyyf7ziddgwwlxp5s6tukp74qbq

Recorded on a PSR-E433, so I don't see why the PSR-E453 or EW400 couldn't be set up the same way.  I'll post the "patch", or sound parameters, later.
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 

Re: PSR-E443 Newbie Questions Chord Piano Styles
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2017, 01:17:56 AM »
Thanks Bob, that sounds great.
Regards
Derick Johnson
 

Offline SciNote

Re: PSR-E443 Newbie Questions Chord Piano Styles
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2017, 06:12:19 AM »
Thanks!  Here's the patch.  And after submitting my previous post, I realized that this question involves the PSR-E443, not the E453, but still, the information here applies to all three keyboards -- my PSR-E433, as well as the E443 and E453.  Possibly, it may also apply to the earlier PSR-E4xx series keyboards, as well.

MAIN VOICE:

Grand Piano (001 -- I think that's the same voice number for Grand Piano on all 3 keyboards)
Volume: 122
Octave: 0
Pan: 64
Reverb: 80
Chorus: 95
Attack: 64
Release: 64
Cut Off: 109
Resonance: 108

DUAL VOICE:

Grand Piano (001)
Volume: 80
Octave: -1
Pan: 64
Reverb: 90
Chorus: 80
Attack: 64
Release: 64
Cut Off: 109
Resonance: 108

Reverb Type: Hall3 (03 on the PSR-E433)
Chorus Type: Chorus2 (2 on the PSR-E433)
EQ: Boost (2 on the PSR-E433)

I realize the volume may be a little high with Main volume being at 122.  If that is too loud, you can proportionally scale back both the Main and Dual Voice volumes to, for example, 100 for Main and about 65 for Dual.  You can also try experimenting with different Pan settings, as I rarely use that feature, but it could make a difference in overall sound.  Same thing with Reverb.  If you feel it's too much, you can try one of the other Reverb Type settings, or just scale back the overall reverb using the control knobs.
Bob
Yamaha PSR-E433
Yamaha PSR-520
 
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