Author Topic: Montage vs tyros 5 sound  (Read 2942 times)

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Offline bushmanjones

Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« on: February 28, 2017, 04:22:33 AM »
Has anyone played or owned montage keyboard.  Just wondering if the "PAC" pure analog circiut makes the montage sound better then the tyros 5.  Because I think that the tyros 5 sounds better than motif xf, but maybe not the montage.  What do u guys think.
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2017, 04:56:54 AM »
Has anyone played or owned montage keyboard.  Just wondering if the "PAC" pure analog circiut makes the montage sound better then the tyros 5.  Because I think that the tyros 5 sounds better than motif xf, but maybe not the montage.  What do u guys think.

The sounds are mastered and mixed differently...  because in general they are used for different types of music... 

The newer samples (most old samples come from motif and tyros) are huge in size, they are mostly used in the new presets and definetely sound great, espescially piano and epiano..


However, where it comes to acoustic brass and winds, Monatge does not have the SA2 voices nor supports the sa2  technollogy...

Same goes for the Organ world organs, as well as the ensemble sounds...

Where Montage really shines is the dsp, you have 2 DSP effects for every voice... on top of that you can layer up to 8 voices (they are called channels not voices in the montage) where you can only layer 3 in the tyros...


Hope this helps explaining the differences in sound a little.. and oossibly explains why you as a typical arrnager player like the tyros5 sounds better... mostly because your ears are used to the final mastered sounds of the tyros...
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

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Offline EileenL

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2017, 05:14:36 AM »
Yes I think you are either an arranger played of a work Station person. To me the two are totally different animals and if you play out live solo as a lot of us do then the arranger is better I feel.

Offline bushmanjones

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2017, 05:36:01 AM »
Ty guys for the info, but I what I really meant is that is the "pac" pure analog circuit a feature that the tyros doesn't have, and if so does it really matter?
Above 3. Streamlined workflow

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/synthesizers/montage/#tab=feature
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 01:40:23 AM »
I think it matters, but how much, I don't know.

The idea behind the PAC is very good. It seperates the digital noisy domain from the analog domain. Digital circuitry is barely impacted by noise, but in the analog world (like your ears) noise is an undesired "sound".

I don't know if Yamaha designed the PAC out of necessity (the noise floor of the analog outputs of the Montage was unacceptably high (maybe because of higher clock speeds of the new SWP70 tone generator?)), out of financial needs to bring down costs (the PAC board is designed once and can then be used on all kinds of high-end instruments) or out of their desire to continuously improve their instruments.

The Tyros 5 is already very quiet noise wise, so I doubt you will hear a difference. Maybe with a headphone?

The perceived sound quality has more to do with the choice of the samples, the sample time length, things like SA2 and DSPs than with PAC, I believe.

Hopefully Paul (pjd) will chime in. He has much more knowledge than me in this area. On his site sandsoftwaresound.net he writes about the PAC:

Quote
Pure Analog Circuit is probably the least understood and least appreciated feature of the Montage. It’s not just better DACs, people. The high speed digital world is very noisy as far as analog audio is concerned. Yamaha separated the analog and digital worlds by putting the DACs and analog electronics on their own printed circuit board away from noisy digital circuits. Yamaha then applied old school engineering to the post-DAC analog circuitry, paying careful attention to old school concerns like board layout for noise minimization and clean power with separate voltage regulation for analog audio. Yamaha’s mid- to high-end products have always been quiet — PAC is pristine.

Since the PAC board is a separate, reusable entity, I could see Yamaha adopting the same board for GENOS.

Some other articles by Paul describing the PAC:

Another advantage of the PAC is balanced audio out, which means even less noise picked up by the cables going to the mixer/monitors/PA system.


Hope this helps,


Maarten
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 01:47:38 AM by maartenb »
 

Offline pjd

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 05:35:47 AM »
Not much else to add. Thanks, Maarten and Bachus!

The only thing that I could say is that everything analog and digital after tone generation should be dead quiet and flat -- no unintended coloration or noise. PAC is a significant step in that direction. PAC should be part of every premium Yamaha product. It's what we pay for.

I've played both instruments. Opinion: If someone is a home player with a less than great audio system, PAC wouldn't matter too much. When playing live and put through a powerful PA, I would expect slightly reduced noise, depending upon the quality of the PA (cables, mixer, power amp, speakers, stage power) itself. For recording, PAC would shine.

All the best -- pj
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 05:41:30 AM by pjd »
 

Offline bushmanjones

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 01:33:39 PM »
Thanks much for the info guys.
 

Offline maartenb

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2017, 03:45:30 AM »
For recording, PAC would shine.

I think the Montage has digital audio streams via USB? For recording, that would be best.

But I get your point, which is: very clear analog audio.


Maarten
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2017, 01:44:04 AM »
I think the Montage has digital audio streams via USB? For recording, that would be best.

But I get your point, which is: very clear analog audio.


Maarten

Yes montage has 16 stereo (48khz 16bit) channels out.. and 4 stereo channels input over the USB..

On your PC, you will be able to treat these channels as normal stereo in/out like a sound card...  which actually makes the Montage the sound device of your PC/MAC..
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline Mellontikos

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  • Tyros 4, 01/W, N5EX, Roland BK5, WS Legacy, Reason
Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 10:21:38 AM »
Isn't the Montage essentially a spiritual successor to the Korg Karma?

My experience has been that these Workstations with "Arranger like" Arpeggiated patterns are pretty much only good for playing around.

An actual Arranger like the Tyros you can actually use in a live performance, as it has everything you need (intro, fill-ins, ending) for every single style.

Offline Joe H

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 11:59:16 AM »
Hi Henry,

It's been a long time since I heard from you.  I agree with you regarding the Montage to some degree but the arpeggiator can be a useful tool when used sparingly or to bulid new Multi Pads or style Parts.  With the Montage... It would be easy to get caught up in all the sound effects and dazzled by the motion sequencer and Super Knob.

Do you still have your T4?   And did you  see the 24 EDM styles I posted awhile back for the Euro Dance Pack?

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,36784.msg279390.html#msg279390

And one more here:   http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,36784.msg280120.html#msg280120


The collection includes the trance style we worked on together   http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,35493.msg267077.html#msg267077

Regards,
Joe H

« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 12:04:19 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Mellontikos

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  • Tyros 4, 01/W, N5EX, Roland BK5, WS Legacy, Reason
Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2017, 09:35:22 PM »
Hi Henry,

It's been a long time since I heard from you.  I agree with you regarding the Montage to some degree but the arpeggiator can be a useful tool when used sparingly or to bulid new Multi Pads or style Parts.  With the Montage... It would be easy to get caught up in all the sound effects and dazzled by the motion sequencer and Super Knob.

Do you still have your T4?   And did you  see the 24 EDM styles I posted awhile back for the Euro Dance Pack?

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,36784.msg279390.html#msg279390

And one more here:   http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,36784.msg280120.html#msg280120


The collection includes the trance style we worked on together   http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,35493.msg267077.html#msg267077

Regards,
Joe H

Just saw this post. Yeah you wouldn't believe how insanely busy I have been. For the past year or so, everybody wanted a piece of Henry, and hence no time for much leisure, lol.

But I'm beginning to be a bit more free, and I even started posting stuff on my Youtube channel as you can see. Yes, as you know, I definitely still have my T4. Great board for me, and works well for what it's meant to. For what it can't, I have Reason, my 01/W and my N5EX, and Wavestation Legacy VST.

I will definitely check your styles. I'd love to try on a collab again. This time though I want to take a crack at learning the software you use. Can you make a quick list of it?

If I can learn the limitations of what Tyros and the available software can do, I can work on exact MIDI data to match as needed.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2017, 10:41:44 PM »
"Just saw this post. Yeah you wouldn't believe how insanely busy I have been. For the past year or so, everybody wanted a piece of Henry, and hence no time for much leisure, lol".

Since I did those styles, I have acquired the EDM Essential 1 Expansion Pack and the Magic Dance Expansion Pack... plus the Motif Rack XS.  I also have some great analog sounds in my PLG150-AN plugin card installed in my MU128.   I'm no longer lacking in EDM Voices for making future styles.

I also have been buried with work and other things going on but hope to start making some new styles this summer and into the fall. Having real EDM sounds makes a big difference. As I noted on the other thread, just remixing my styles using the Euro Dance Voices made a big improvement. 

The EDM and Magic Dance packs are even better.  I will be posting demos soon using one of my styles from the 2016 dance collection.  One version uses the EDM Essential 1 Voices plus my custom Multi Pads, and a second version uses Magic Dance Voices plus Magic Dance Multi Pads.

I'm also learning how to integrate the Motif Rack XS with my arranger so I can use Motif Arps for some style Parts and/or Multi Pads. I would also like to use Motif Multis in place of Multi Pads on some occasions.  I also see the possibility of converting custom Multis to Multi Pads using the EDM and Magic Dance Voices.  So I'm talking about a whole new sound coming out of the arranger thanks to these new expansion pack Voices and arps generated by the Motif Rack XS.

Joe H 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 07:05:33 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline sunny

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2017, 06:40:34 AM »
I think the Montage has digital audio streams via USB? For recording, that would be best.

But I get your point, which is: very clear analog audio.


Maarten
My Soundcraft mixer has USB audio input. Can we use Digital audio stream(USB) of Montage for live playing ?

Sunny
 

Offline Bachus

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2017, 09:14:57 AM »
My Soundcraft mixer has USB audio input. Can we use Digital audio stream(USB) of Montage for live playing ?

Sunny

Not in the way you think... 

The USB connection is PC only. so if you have another audio interface on your PC, you could use that for connecting to your PA.

But not that you can connect it to USB speakers.. of some sort..
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.  I am wayting for the next box of chocolate the Yamaha Genos.

Admin of : www.keyszone.boards.net
 

Offline sunny

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2017, 09:05:43 PM »
Not in the way you think... 

The USB connection is PC only. so if you have another audio interface on your PC, you could use that for connecting to your PA.

But not that you can connect it to USB speakers.. of some sort..

 I read somewhere that the Montage's USB output will pass audio since it's class compliant and my Soundcraft signature12 mixer has the ability to accept stereo channels. Why it is not suitable to use Montage USB audio output for live playing ?

Sunny
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 09:55:01 AM by sunny »
 

Offline voodoo

Re: Montage vs tyros 5 sound
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2017, 03:55:48 AM »
I read somewhere that the Montage's USB output will pass audio since it's class compliant and my Soundcraft signature12 mixer only has the ability to accept stereo channels. Why it is not suitable to use Montage USB audio output for live playing ?

The mixer has to be a USB host to be able to connect a USB device. I don't think that this is the case. The mixer and the Montage, both are USB devices, both can be connected to a PC.
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