Author Topic: Yamaha DGX Series  (Read 1481 times)

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Offline guitpic1

Yamaha DGX Series
« on: January 06, 2017, 02:35:40 PM »
Having a budget of $800 or less, we bought our grand daughter(a beginner at age 10)a DGX 660 for piano lessons.  We own a DGX 650.  My wife is used to playing acoustic piano.

This piano/arranger seems to get 4 positive reviews to every one positive review of all other brands, in this price range, including my brother, a choir director, who has a degree in music with piano emphasis.

My brother seems to think this piano will work very well until something more serious, involving a greater investment, is needed.  My brother owns a Yamaha acoustic piano. He is used to playing a grand piano for concerts.

It seems Yamaha has found, in the DGX series, a piano/arranger combo that can lead folks and in a number of directions.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 02:49:41 PM by guitpic1 »
guitpic1

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Offline motekmusic

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Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2017, 12:28:06 AM »
Hello Guitpic..

As you can tell by my avatar I do own a dgx650 as well as tyros 5 and the s970 and wondering why would the dgx be a part of
my collection.
From the age of 8 when I acquired a Baldwin Blond mahogany spinet up until 5 years ago I enjoyed playing an acoustic piano,
as well as getting into the arrangers.   I could not take,, ship that piano here to Israel,, quite costly and imagined that the
arranger keyboards... I had the tyros 3 and the 910 would suit my needs.  I also purchased the NPv80.   Well, last year I got a chance to play the 650
in the KleyZemer music store and realized how much I missed the acoustic and the keytouches.   The 660's were coming in
so the 650 was reduced a bit, my husband saw I was on cloud 9 playing that piano and voila as a70th year BD gift it was
sent to our home in white,, beautiful.
It is a fantastic machine for those who do want to have that acoustic,, sound , touch,, etc.  and yet also want the benefits of
styles,, etc...  plus recording capabilities... midi files.   It is a big bang for the buck.   I can again try to play and practice
classical pieces as well as piano pieces with 2 staffs.   I have found my left hand has gotten lazy and rusty.   
It is the best of both worlds especially.   I still miss my Baldwin acoustic  , but this piano seems to fill that gap.

these are my thoughts.

cheers
elaine
\\\"I have suffered for my music, now it\\\'s your turn\\\"   Neil Innes

Offline FredrikC

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2017, 03:42:02 PM »
I also have both a DGX as well as a Tyros.  The Tyros is part of a stack, while the DGX is great if I just want to play.  Both serve their purpose, and I'm happy with both.
Fred

Yamaha: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, DX-7, SY-99 (last two in attic)
Other: Kronos2 88, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, eMu MPS (also in attic)
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Offline Bachus

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Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2017, 09:52:36 PM »
The DGX is good as it is, it combines a low end arranger with a low end digital piano... best of both worlds in an acceptable small formfactor...  its still somewhat mobile

I wish Yamaha would extend this concept into the midrange, adding better keybed, improved piano capabilities, a color touchscreen and psr S770 internals for the arranger part...

Many people just dont need a piece of furniture in their house (clavinova) while this formfactor also allows you to take it on the road, to play for and with friends...because in the end, making music is more fun with others...
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.

Offline guitpic1

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2017, 07:10:25 AM »
I'm hoping to play a CVP 709 this year.  However, I'm not sure my limited abilities would discern a keybed difference.

guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3, Bose Compacts(2).

Offline guitpic1

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2017, 10:33:56 AM »
Yamaha's marketing is hard for me to understand.

I think I would like to have a CVP 709.  However, it's a bit hard to understand paying 10 - 15 times the cost of a DGX.

???
guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3, Bose Compacts(2).

Offline FredrikC

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2017, 10:51:16 AM »
Look at it in the store dgx 670
I didn't know what to think of it. At nearly a thousand cdn. Keybed reminds YPT 420 but button make noise click not entry level at price just to be in midrange I don't like it...you better buying off buying used 750 or better 770 series or lower model at much lower price ...it's odd ball. I agree with Bachus strip down  from 770 seriously I don't if know selling them truly lower or higher line depending budget would be better
Budget I would purchase used 770 or 750 at a thousand hands down get lot satisfaction it's oddball if it was a lot lower price six or seven hundred maybe I would consider it ...but couple hundred less no.

It's not half a 750 in feature even less of a 770 just facts. Sorry is the truth
I bough a demo new model came out save 45 percent on 710 your equilivent is 750 is a thousand used or lucky demo not worth it

Regards
Roger57

I'm confused.  I can't find any mention of a DGX 670 on the internet.

The YPT 420 is a five octave keyboard, while the DGX 660 (and 650, my DGX) is an eighty eight key keyboard.  The polyphony is much lower on the YPT.  The keys on non-weighted.  Very different keyboards.

In fact, you're comparing two very different types of keyboards.  The DGX keyboards are meant as inexpensive PIANOS with cut down arranger features.  If you mainly want an arranger, you wouldn't buy a DGX.  And if you mainly want a piano, you wouldn't touch a YPT or any other full blown arranger.
Fred

Yamaha: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, DX-7, SY-99 (last two in attic)
Other: Kronos2 88, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, eMu MPS (also in attic)
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Offline jgriffin

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 11:13:01 AM »
I absolutely love my DGX-660 (had the 650 previously).  It sounds great with my Bose Compact speaker and has enough style options to create a bit of added interest when I play.  It's still quite heavy but worth the effort for the 88 Graded Keys.  It's no substitute for my Yamaha Black Ebony Baby Grand - but it will do until something better comes along!

Happy Playing All!

Thank God for music..........

Offline Bachus

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Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 01:47:52 PM »
Yamaha's marketing is hard for me to understand.

I think I would like to have a CVP 709.  However, it's a bit hard to understand paying 10 - 15 times the cost of a DGX.

???

What i do understand from Yamaha marketing is that as long as people are paying those prices, yamaha will be that expensive...
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2017, 02:41:56 PM »
Regarding Yamaha's possible future strategy, I'm hoping that some of Casio's newer high-end Privia models-- the PX-560 in particular-- might light a fire under Yamaha with regards to a $1000-ish digital piano. As I see it, the DGX-660 is already great, but suffers from being only XGlite-compatible and being able to access only two variations per style. It seems like it should be easy for Yamaha to make a higher DGX model-- e.g., a DGX-7xx or above-- with full XG-compatibility and the ability to access all four style variations, making it more competitive with Casio's PX-560.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443

Offline FredrikC

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2017, 05:53:54 AM »
Regarding Yamaha's possible future strategy, I'm hoping that some of Casio's newer high-end Privia models-- the PX-560 in particular-- might light a fire under Yamaha with regards to a $1000-ish digital piano. As I see it, the DGX-660 is already great, but suffers from being only XGlite-compatible and being able to access only two variations per style. It seems like it should be easy for Yamaha to make a higher DGX model-- e.g., a DGX-7xx or above-- with full XG-compatibility and the ability to access all four style variations, making it more competitive with Casio's PX-560.

It's an interesting question.  Is the world really looking for an 88 weighted key arranger?  I'm not sure.  Most (not all) of the piano snobs look down at anything with a Waltz button, while many arranger players aren't looking for weighted keys or a full keyboard.  There may be a niche out there that needs filling.  But I'm not sure if the size of the niche will produce profits for whatever manufacturer fills it.
Fred

Yamaha: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, DX-7, SY-99 (last two in attic)
Other: Kronos2 88, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, eMu MPS (also in attic)
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Offline Spirit of the old South

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2017, 02:48:33 AM »
It's an interesting question.  Is the world really looking for an 88 weighted key arranger?  I'm not sure.  Most (not all) of the piano snobs look down at anything with a Waltz button, while many arranger players aren't looking for weighted keys or a full keyboard.  There may be a niche out there that needs filling.  But I'm not sure if the size of the niche will produce profits for whatever manufacturer fills it.

I think the younger musicians are only looking for 88 keys if they are serious with music, and thats not those who want to make EDM.  So if you want to sell your arranger instruments to younger people at all, 88 keys is a requirement. And that seems to be the path Casio has chosen. A stagepiano first with an arranger on the side.

The main question is, wouldn't those young people be much more happy with a full fledged high end Yamaha arranger engine like the psr s770 has?  Yamaha arranger styles still are miles ahead of CASIO. And thats not an assumption, that is a fact. I donīt think its a niche, i think its a requirement for arrangers to make this step if they want to survive in our western world.

Offline motekmusic

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Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2017, 03:41:51 AM »
Hello again,

The dgx for me is no replacement for the more portable arranger.   OR  if needed a stage piano than would have found something
lighter and just PIANO.
The dgx is  50 pounds which is difficult to lug around.   For me it is a piece of furniture sort of an ersatz white mini baby grand..
that fits my living room area... Also have the tyros 5 and the s970 sitting across from each other.
I can't see Yamaha making an all fits one type of product.   Of course only 2 variations is a drag, if that was my only machine, but
for piano players it is a nice treat to segue into playing with styles.. or to introduce a novice player into the field of playing with
styles.   Also, maybe am making wrong assumption, in that the more Yamaha puts into this product than perhaps the main
piano sound might suffer.   The voices on this machine are very nice.   
Personally, Casio is something I stay away from even if they have twice the features.
Agree with the spirit of south reply about best of both worlds would be an arranger and an 88 key piano.....
I think Yamaha did find its Niche with this product....

cheers
elaine
\\\"I have suffered for my music, now it\\\'s your turn\\\"   Neil Innes

Offline FredrikC

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2017, 05:50:29 AM »
I donīt think its a niche

I think we're using the word differently.  A niche is a subset of a market.  The keyboard market is a subset of the market for musical instruments.  Arrangers are a niche of the keyboard market.

When you divide up the arranger market by size of keyboard, each of those sections is a niche.

A niche can be large.  Look at the sales of the Ford F-150 pickup some time.  Or a niche can be small.  What does Lamborgini sell in a year?

However, a person looking for a Lamborgini isn't going to buy an F-150, and a person looking for an F-150 isn't going to buy a Lamborgini.

I think we differ on how big the niche IS for an 88 key arranger.  I don't think it's all that big, while you think it's large and essential for future sales.  We'll probably never know the answer unless Yamaha (a) creates a great 88 key arrangers, and (b) provides sales figures of that arranger.  (Unless it's a total bomb, and we see it remaindered on eBay direct from Yamaha within the year.  Highly unlikely.)

Does anyone have any good numbers on the sales of 61 key arrangers vs 7X key arrangers?  I'd imagine that if the 88 key arranger niche is large, then the 7X key arrangers would be doing very well.  Unfortunately, when I went to a major chain store about a month or so ago, I only saw 61 key arrangers on display.
Fred

Yamaha: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, DX-7, SY-99 (last two in attic)
Other: Kronos2 88, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, eMu MPS (also in attic)
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Offline guitpic1

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2017, 08:13:47 AM »
I doubt an 88 key arranger would be very popular unless it had some sort of weighted key action.

For me, my DGX 650 is a play at home instrument.  Much to heavy to take to a gig besides the fact that it doesn't have line outs and the arranger is pretty basic
guitpic1

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Offline Bachus

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Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2017, 08:28:12 AM »
I think we're using the word differently.  A niche is a subset of a market.  The keyboard market is a subset of the market for musical instruments.  Arrangers are a niche of the keyboard market.

When you divide up the arranger market by size of keyboard, each of those sections is a niche.

A niche can be large.  Look at the sales of the Ford F-150 pickup some time.  Or a niche can be small.  What does Lamborgini sell in a year?

However, a person looking for a Lamborgini isn't going to buy an F-150, and a person looking for an F-150 isn't going to buy a Lamborgini.

I think we differ on how big the niche IS for an 88 key arranger.  I don't think it's all that big, while you think it's large and essential for future sales.  We'll probably never know the answer unless Yamaha (a) creates a great 88 key arrangers, and (b) provides sales figures of that arranger.  (Unless it's a total bomb, and we see it remaindered on eBay direct from Yamaha within the year.  Highly unlikely.)

Does anyone have any good numbers on the sales of 61 key arrangers vs 7X key arrangers?  I'd imagine that if the 88 key arranger niche is large, then the 7X key arrangers would be doing very well.  Unfortunately, when I went to a major chain store about a month or so ago, I only saw 61 key arrangers on display.

Overhere in Holland, Yamaha says that 60% of tyros 5 sales where 76 key versions...  seems that with a small price difference only, that 76 keys is allready more popular then 61...

Also korg indicates that they sell much more 76 key versions of pa4x then 61 keys (in europe)
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.

Offline FredrikC

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2017, 09:11:49 AM »
Overhere in Holland, Yamaha says that 60% of tyros 5 sales where 76 key versions...  seems that with a small price difference only, that 76 keys is allready more popular then 61...

Also korg indicates that they sell much more 76 key versions of pa4x then 61 keys (in europe)

So for the upper end arrangers, the market may be bigger than I estimated for an 88 note arranger.  Learn something new every day.

Of course, the next question is making an 88 note keyboard (probably with weighted keys), all the buttons that an arranger needs, and not having it weigh as much at a Montage 8.  Or would the people buying the 88 key arranger not mind the weight?  (I think I reached my limit with the Kronos 88, and the Montage is 10 pounds heavier. But I'm only one person.)
Fred

Yamaha: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, DX-7, SY-99 (last two in attic)
Other: Kronos2 88, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, eMu MPS (also in attic)
RCM Certificates: Advanced Rudiments

Offline SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2017, 10:00:52 AM »
I don't think weight is an impediment to performers if they have a road crew-- after all, how much does a Hammond B3 weigh, or a huge Moog modular, or a Mellotron? It's true that weight is an issue for performers who don't have a road crew, or who have to set up and pack up quickly-- as opposed to setting up over a period of hours in the morning in preparation for an evening show, and packing up over a period of hours as well. Still, I often see keyboards with 88 keys being played by local artists at pubs and such, and they can't all be inexpensive 20-pound portables.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443

Offline FredrikC

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2017, 10:14:29 AM »
I don't think weight is an impediment to performers if they have a road crew-- after all, how much does a Hammond B3 weigh, or a huge Moog modular, or a Mellotron? It's true that weight is an issue for performers who don't have a road crew, or who have to set up and pack up quickly-- as opposed to setting up over a period of hours in the morning in preparation for an evening show, and packing up over a period of hours as well. Still, I often see keyboards with 88 keys being played by local artists at pubs and such, and they can't all be inexpensive 20-pound portables.

I read an interview with Billy Joel about the days as a bar band on Long Island.  All the bands playing would call each other up to see who would bring the B-3.
Fred

Yamaha: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, DX-7, SY-99 (last two in attic)
Other: Kronos2 88, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, eMu MPS (also in attic)
RCM Certificates: Advanced Rudiments

Offline Bachus

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Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2017, 02:18:35 PM »
So for the upper end arrangers, the market may be bigger than I estimated for an 88 note arranger.  Learn something new every day.

Of course, the next question is making an 88 note keyboard (probably with weighted keys), all the buttons that an arranger needs, and not having it weigh as much at a Montage 8.  Or would the people buying the 88 key arranger not mind the weight?  (I think I reached my limit with the Kronos 88, and the Montage is 10 pounds heavier. But I'm only one person.)

Weight certainly is a thing....  however, With current high end materials, weight even for a weighted 88 keys instrument should not be a factor... it can be less then a tyros 5.... and be build like a tank.

I think the formfactor of the cvp 709 would work better for a stage piano with arranger... they just need to add the pads...  also the montage 8, is much to big (its huge) for a stage instrument, Kronos scales much better..
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Offline Bachus

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Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2017, 02:04:00 AM »
Bachus
You keep talking Kronos 88 putting down Montage say different beast altogether but I spent several hours or so just on video on Guitars Brass and those E pianos and the Piano muzikfest side by side and the Montage seriously sound clearer better on all of them not over bass and muddy mid high like Korg and it seriously got beat most with no tweaking forget the weigh. I wouldn't throw my wife out for few pound over and would not  throw out my love for few pounds ...Montage is amazing beast keyboard but it's the best I ever heard clear pristine precise mid and high probably best I ever heard ever ...seriously...smell a Korg burning...watch out for that super knob wow
Sorry that's is the truth and that is my opinion and that's basic fundamentals.

Sincerely
Roger57

If basic aren't right on instrument get anything else right Montage is winner and new generation is born superb piano...and the ear don't lie Bravo Yamaha

Dear Roger, my specific comment about montage vs Kronos was a out its size...  when you put them next to eachother, the Kronos looks like a dexterious kitten, where the Montage looks like a voluminous whale.. 

First of, i need you to understand that i think both the Kronos as well as the Montage are incredible instruments, but there are some very fundamental differences...

Now about the sound, you do realise that the Kronos sound by default is a dry sound, where current Montage performances are wet sounds and all come with a lot of effects added... also the samples of the Kronos are much more clean then the samples of yamaha which traditionally come with some reverb on them...  so witouth tweaking the Montage indeed sounds more refined.. (exception most kronos drum sounds, they are sampled with effects on them)

On top of that, i agree that out of the box, yamaha brass, dp and guitars are better then Kronos... and Brass and Guitars on my T5 and PA4x as well...

But where they differ most is the workstation part, Kronos still is a fullfledged workstation with sequencers, Karma and 9 incredible flexible sound engines ...  where Montage is a performance synth with an almost non excisting sequencer...   if you compare Karma to arps and moton sequencing, i do beleive Karma is even more flexible and more powerfull, however, Montage is much much easier to get into and build your own stuff with (sadly you can not create new arps on the montage you will need a motif to do so).

In the end, Yamaha has much less tools to offer, yet is much more easier accessible... i think soundwise you can get top knotch results with both...


And so they are 2 very different beasts in nature... Kronos looks like a dexterious kitten, but comes with much much more tools in the box...

Whats best? Totally depends on the needs and wants of the musician.
Life is like a box of chocolats, you never know what you are gonna get, so enjoy them all.

Offline FredrikC

Re: Yamaha DGX Series
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2017, 06:01:35 AM »
But where they differ most is the workstation part, Kronos still is a fullfledged workstation with sequencers, Karma and 9 incredible flexible sound engines ...  where Montage is a performance synth with an almost non excisting sequencer...   if you compare Karma to arps and moton sequencing, i do beleive Karma is even more flexible and more powerfull, however, Montage is much much easier to get into and build your own stuff with (sadly you can not create new arps on the montage you will need a motif to do so).

One thing that bothers me about the Montage (other than my inability to pick it up 'cause I'm old) is what I heard about some of the sounds.  I've heard that the piano (for instance) is played across four different MIDI channels.  You need to send the same note information across all four channels.  Theoretically there could be a timing issue, but I doubt that it's a problem in the real world.  However, a MIDI cable can only carry sixteen channels.  If you're using the piano on the Montage, then you've only got twelve channels left to play with.  But if you're using any other keyboard, you'd have fifteen channels left to play with.

(I could be wrong.  I'm going by memory of a forum discussion on a different board from several months ago.  In addition to loosing strength as you get older, you memory starts to fade, too.)

The sounds of the Montage are supposed to be impressive.  (I'd love to play with 8 operator FM.)  But it's a very different box than the Kronos.

It MAY be the way of the future.  The market for full blown workstations may be shrinking as more and more studios go to computer based production.  The Kronos may be the best and last of a dying breed.  But I like my dinosaur.
Fred

Yamaha: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, DX-7, SY-99 (last two in attic)
Other: Kronos2 88, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, eMu MPS (also in attic)
RCM Certificates: Advanced Rudiments