Author Topic: psr ew400 how to play midi files  (Read 998 times)

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Offline jonboy1

psr ew400 how to play midi files
« on: December 27, 2016, 07:20:42 AM »
Hi first time on this forum, I have recently purchased two keyboards, a yamaha psr s550 and also a yamaha psr ew400.

I am not sure if I should have bought a workstation instead.What I want to do is to be able to download midi files and,or, song/style files and choose the sounds and drum kit from the keyboard for each part. I am use to cubase where you can just change the instrument etc for each part/midi channel.

I have tried a variety of styles that I found on the net, but I cant get the ew400 to recognize any file that I place on a usb flash drive, I found a load of songs which are .sty files and I unzipped them before placing them on the usb but still not recognized. I managed to get a midi file into the psr s550, but I cant seem to work out how I can change the sounds for each part. any advice would be great.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 07:24:33 AM by jonboy1 »
 

Offline andyg

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Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2016, 08:39:31 AM »
To answer the question that you've almost answered yourself, in your post. It would be much easier to do this sort of thing on any of the higher level Yamaha keyboards - workstations, if you like - where the 16 track song recorder lets you do the things you want to do directly from the screen(s). Not as easy as Cubase, of course, but still easy enough. Anything from the PSR3000 onwards would do a great job, with the PSR-S class doing it even better, as the voicing range expands and adds in more of the higher quality sounds.

Depending on where you are in the world, you can pick up a used PSR3000 for around the same money as a new PSR-E453 or equivalent.

I'll let our other experts answer the rest of your queries about using the MIDI files on the 550 and EW400.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Offline jonboy1

Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2016, 09:43:44 AM »
thanks very much for the reply. I thought the psr s 550 would do what I wanted, and I though that the psr ew400 was better than psr6000 but I think I made a mistake! I am not really a musician, but want something for church that could be used with midi files and maybe play the lead parts.

I thought midi files would be easy to play on any of these but they don`t seem to have a general format the same as when your in a studio. Any midi file normally just loads up and away you go..

 

Online SeaGtGruff

Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2016, 02:31:37 PM »
The PSR-EW400 can play MIDI song files as well as Yamaha Style files.

To play a song file, first you must either put the song file on a USB thumb drive and insert it into the keyboard's "USB TO DEVICE" port, or transfer the song file to the keyboard's internal memory using the Yamaha Musicsoft Downloader (on a Windows computer) or Yamaha MusicSoft Manager (on an iOS device).

Then you must press the SONG button and select the song you want to play. You can select a song by using the Dial, the CATEGORY buttons, and/or the Number pad buttons.

Any song files that were transferred to the keyboard's memory will be listed as Song 041 and above, and any song files on the USB thumb drive will be listed immediately after that.

If the desired song file is on a USB drive but you don't see it listed, make sure it's in a folder that the keyboard can access; see page 63 of the Owner's Manual for more information.

Note that there is no "Load SMF" function in the FILE CONTROL menu; once you select the song, you simply press the START/STOP button to begin playback.

With style files the procedure is different, because the PSR-EW400 can't play external style files unless they're loaded into system memory as User Styles.

(The keyboard has two kinds of RAM-- system memory and internal memory. You can compare this to a computer's system memory, used for actively running programs and loading files, versus its internal hard drive, used for storing programs and files.)

To play a style file, first place the style file on a USB thumb drive or transfer it to the keyboard's internal memory, as with a song file.

Then press FILE CONTROL, select the "Load STY" function, and use the procedure described on page 67 of the Owner's Manual to load the style file as a User Style. You can load up to ten external style files at a time.

If a desired style file isn't listed, it might not be playable on the PSR-EW400. Only SFF1 style files can be used, and they must not be too large-- if I remember correctly, they should not exceed about 50K each. There might be other conditions that could prevent the style file from being listed.

The rest of the procedure is similar to playing a song file, except you press STYLE instead of SONG. Also, there are some additional options when playing a style, as described on pages 50-51 of the Owner's Manual.

Unfortunately, the PSR-EW400 doesn't have any onboard functions for editing song files or style files, which includes revoicing them (changing the voices used on the various MIDI channels).

However, there are a number of utilities that can be used to edit or revoice song files and style files on your computer, and you can usually play the song or style to your PSR-EW400 so you can hear how the changes sound before you save the modified file. If you go to the main PSR Tutorial site (http://psrtutorial.com/index.html) and click on Utilities, you'll see links to pages for a number of handy utilities written by Michael Bedesem, Murray Best, Heiko Plate, Joe Maas, Jørgen Sørensen, Peter Wierzba, and Kim Winther. These utilities are available either from the PSR Tutorial site itself or from the programmers' web sites.

You can also use a DAW or other MIDI sequencer/editor to edit and/or revoice song files and style files, but you must be careful when changing a style file this way, as such programs will usually strip off Yamaha's proprietary chunks and leave only the MThd and MTrk chunks. For this reason you should use a utility such as Jørgen Sørensen's "Style Split and Splice" program to split the original style file into two separate files-- one containing the MThd and MTrk chunks, and the other containing Yamaha's proprietary chunks. Then you can edit the MIDI portion in your DAW or MIDI editor, save the changes, and use the "Style Split and Splice" program to merge the modified MIDI chunks with the Yamaha chunks.

I'm not conversant about the PSR-S550, but it might be possible to use the keyboard's onboard functions to edit and revoice song files and style files-- or it might not; someone who's experienced with that model should be able to tell you.
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline jonboy1

Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2016, 04:00:17 AM »
Hi thanks very much!. I will have a go at some of this later but When i was trying to load either a midi file or a .sty file from a usb flash drive, when I did as instructed and held down function until the word load sty appeared, the word 'no file' subsequently appeared, it was the same if i tried to load it as user data.

the usb was formatted on the EW400 and the files were saved in the user file.
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2016, 04:01:33 AM »
Hi thanks very much!. I will have a go at some of this later but When i was trying to load either a midi file or a .sty file from a usb flash drive, when I did as instructed and held down function until the word load sty appeared, the word 'no file' subsequently appeared, it was the same if i tried to load it as user data.

the usb was formatted on the EW400 and the files were saved in the user file.

Why did you press the function button when Michael told you to press the Song button (for a song), or the Style button (for a style)?

Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Tyros 4, Bose L1, Finale 2011
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Online SeaGtGruff

Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2016, 10:29:13 AM »
Fred, if he were trying to use a style file, he would first need to use the FILE CONTROL button (or hold down the FUNCTION button to access its secondary use) in order to "Load STY" as one of the ten User Styles. :)

jonboy1, how many style files are on the USB drive? It's possible that none of them are usable on the PSR-EW400 for some reason.

One possibility is that they have the wrong extensions. There are a number of extensions that Yamaha uses for style files, but the only one that the PSR-EW400 recognizes for style files is STY. If any of them have different style extensions-- e.g., PRS-- then you should rename them to the STY extension.

Another possibility is that they might be SFF2 files instead of SFF1 files. The SFF1 or SFF2 indicator is inside the file itself, so it isn't visible unless you look at the file's contents with an editor or utility. There's a handy utility program named "Style Format Finder" (http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sff/index.htm) that can check an entire folder of style files-- or, if preferred, one file at a time-- to see whether they're SFF1 or SFF2 files.

If any are SFF2 files, you can use "Style Format 2 Converter" (http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sf2c/index.htm) to convert them to SFF1 files. You can also use "Style Old Format Converter" (http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sofc/index.htm) to make sure the SFF1 files conform to the earlier format.

Even if they're SFF1 files, there might be some other reason why they aren't showing up-- something inside them that is causing the PSR-EW400 to reject them.

If you wish, you can post one of the style files that aren't working so we can look at it-- but don't post any copyrighted style files that you bought. You can also email one or more of them to me and I'll check them for you. But I encourage you to check out the utility programs at Jørgen Sørensen's site (JoSoSoft.dk), as well as "MixMaster" (http://www.psrtutorial.com/MB/mixMaster.html) and the many other excellent utilities which are freely available (http://www.psrtutorial.com/util/index.html).

EDIT: I forgot to say that another possibility is the number of files on the USB drive. You said that you'd formatted the drive with the PSR-EW400, so I'm guessing that you haven't already filled up the drive with hundreds or even thousands of style files, MIDI song files, and other types of files. But in case you do ever stick a style file or song file on a USB drive that already contains a lot of other files, be aware that the PSR-EW400 might not be able to see past the first X files in the drive's file allocation table. (I'm not sure of the number, hence the "X"!)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 10:38:42 AM by SeaGtGruff »
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline jonboy1

Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2016, 01:38:16 PM »
thanks very much for the replies, I have not had time today to get stuck in,Kids still home from school! I think when I tried the other day I loaded one midi file, and quite a few sty files on the usb.

I have attached a few samples here they all end with sty.

thanks very much.

Online SeaGtGruff

Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2016, 02:48:50 PM »
That one is in the SFF2 format, which is why it isn't showing up. I'll see if I can convert it for the voices on my PSR-E443, which should work for your PSR-EW400 since it has only a few voices that aren't on the PSR-E443. :)
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Online SeaGtGruff

Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2016, 06:17:47 PM »
While MIDI song files can be stored in up to (any) two folder levels deep (Page 63 of the manual), style files MUST be in the ROOT of the USB flash drive (Page 67 of the manual).  If they are in the "User Files" folder (or any other folder, for that matter), the keyboard will not be able to find them.  It is also best to reserve the "User Files" folder for User Files with a ".usr" extension, and store MIDI files in their own folder system.

I wasn't sure about the folder. The file that was posted in definitely SFF2, but that doesn't mean they all were, so the directory could be the issue with those.

In the early days of the PSR-E433, we determined that its style file size cutoff was about 54Kb.  The keyboard would not recognize a style file larger than that, although larger files could have unused or un-needed parts removed, with Michael Bedesem's or Jorgen Sorenson's style editor programs, in an attempt to get them below the the 54Kb limit.  I do not believe any study was ever done by PSR-E443/PSR-E453/EW400 owners to see if that size limit increased with the newer boards.

I have a theory about the maximum style file size, which I've mentioned before but haven't verified yet. If you look at Backup and User files for these keyboards-- or just Backup files for the models that don't have a USB TO DEVICE port (meaning they can't save User files)-- there are different sections for the file header information, user songs, registrations, user styles, and (in Backup files) the settings that are saved when the power is turned off. Each section (if present) has a fixed size, so there's a specific amount of memory allocated for the User Styles. If you take the size of the User Style section, subtract the bytes that used to specify each User Style's size, divide the remaining bytes by the number of User Styles, and round the answer down to the nearest even number (because the keyboard always uses an even number of bytes for each User Style), you get the maximum style file size that the keyboard can use. That's my theory, anyway.

At about that same time, I loaded up a USB flash drive with around 275 style files from the PSR-8000/9000/2000/2100, and the PSR-E433 was able to recognize all of them.  I do not know if we ever did determine an upper limit to the number of style files it was able to recognize on the USB drive.

If I remember correctly, the Owner's Manual for some of the earlier models mention a limit of something like 250 files. I suspect this limit comes from the file system used by the keyboard itself, which means the limit will vary from model to model depending on which file system it uses. For newer models the limit is probably so high that it's not an issue.

The file system of the USB drive is also important, since it determines how many files you can put in a given directory, but that doesn't have anything to do with how many files the keyboard can see on the USB drive.

But another possible issue is the three-digit numbering scheme that the keyboard uses for some things. I don't think this matters for style files, but it might matter for song files-- unless the song numbers "roll over" internally from 999 to 1000 and continue on from there, whether or not the LCD screen can display the thousands digit and above. That's one more thing to test. :)

In addition to these limitations, and the ones you list above, any style file that contains Mega Voices from the PSR-3000 and newer boards will need to be revoiced to remove the Mega Voices, in order to sound correctly on the PSR-E4X3 and EW400 boards.

Yes, Jørgen Sørensen's "Style Old Format Converter" utility can convert any Mega Voices in SFF1 files to normal voices. He also has a utility called "MIDI Mega Voice Cleaner" that can do the same for MIDI files. We Yamaha owners are very fortunate indeed to have such talented programmers as Jørgen, Michael Bedesem, Murray Best, Heiko Plate, Joe Maas, Peter Wierzba, Kim Winther, and any others I've missed. :)
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Online SeaGtGruff

Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2016, 01:11:24 AM »
jonboy1, I've converted the style you posted (Come Now Is The Time) to the SFF1 format, renamed it, remixed it as six different files, and revoiced it, as follows:

(1) I copied the original "Come Now Is the Time.T110.STY" file to a new "ComeNow [SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY" file. This was for two reasons-- to preserve the original so I could work on the copy, and to give it a name that's better suited to the PSR-EW400's 8-character text display (the extra characters after the 8th character are ignored).

(2) I used the "Style Format 2 Converter" program to convert the new, renamed copy to the SFF1 format.

(3) I used the "Style Old Format Converter" program to convert the SFF1 file to an older format by applying the following options:
- Delete OTS Section
- Max. resolution 480
- Convert Mega Voices
- Use old CASM format

(4) I used the "Hex Editor Neo" program to inspect the SFF1 file to make a note of which style sections it contained:
- SInt
- Main A
- Main B
- Main C
- Main D
- Fill In AA
- Fill In BB
- Fill In CC
- Fill In DD
- Intro A
- Intro B
- Intro C
- Ending A
- Ending B
- Ending C
- Fill In BA
Note that this step is optional, especially if you don't have a hex editor, although I find that it helps to know what sections are in a style before I remix it, and you can use the "MixMaster" program rather than a hex editor to see what the sections are (I just like using a hex editor because I'm a programmer).

(5) I copied the SFF1 file to six new files with the following names:
- "ComeNow1[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
- "ComeNow2[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
- "ComeNow3[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
- "ComeNow4[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
- "ComeNow5[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
- "ComeNow6[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
The reason for this is because the PSR-EW400 can use only two style variations-- A and B-- so we should move the variations that we want to keep to A and B, and we can keep all possible combinations using six files-- A/B, A/C, A/D, B/C, B/D, and C/D. There are only three Intros and Endings, so for the three files that will contain variation D I've used A, B, or C for the Intro and Ending.

(6) I used the "Style ReMixer" program to shuffle the Main, Fill In, Intro, and Ending sections in each of the six files, as follows:
- I selected the "Keep CASM" option.
"ComeNow1[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
- For "Main A" I used "Main A."
- For "Main B" I used "Main B."
- For "Fill In AA" I used "Fill In AA."
- For "Fill In BB" I used "Fill In BB."
- For "Intro A" I used "Intro A."
- For "Intro B" I used "Intro B."
- For "Ending A" I used "Ending A."
- For "Ending B" I used "Ending B."
"ComeNow2[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
- For "Main A" I used "Main A."
- For "Main B" I used "Main C."
- For "Fill In AA" I used "Fill In AA."
- For "Fill In BB" I used "Fill In CC."
- For "Intro A" I used "Intro A."
- For "Intro B" I used "Intro C."
- For "Ending A" I used "Ending A."
- For "Ending B" I used "Ending C."
"ComeNow3[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
- For "Main A" I used "Main A."
- For "Main B" I used "Main D."
- For "Fill In AA" I used "Fill In AA."
- For "Fill In BB" I used "Fill In DD."
- For "Intro A" I used "Intro A."
- For "Intro B" I used "Intro B" (since there is no "Intro D").
- For "Ending A" I used "Ending A."
- For "Ending B" I used "Ending B" (since there is no "Ending D").
"ComeNow4[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
- For "Main A" I used "Main B."
- For "Main B" I used "Main C."
- For "Fill In AA" I used "Fill In BB."
- For "Fill In BB" I used "Fill In CC."
- For "Intro A" I used "Intro B."
- For "Intro B" I used "Intro C."
- For "Ending A" I used "Ending B."
- For "Ending B" I used "Ending C."
"ComeNow5[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
- For "Main A" I used "Main B."
- For "Main B" I used "Main D."
- For "Fill In AA" I used "Fill In BB."
- For "Fill In BB" I used "Fill In DD."
- For "Intro A" I used "Intro B."
- For "Intro B" I used "Intro C" (since there is no "Intro D").
- For "Ending A" I used "Ending B."
- For "Ending B" I used "Ending C" (since there is no "Ending D").
"ComeNow6[SFF1] (Come Now Is The Time.T110).STY"
- For "Main A" I used "Main C."
- For "Main B" I used "Main D."
- For "Fill In AA" I used "Fill In CC."
- For "Fill In BB" I used "Fill In DD."
- For "Intro A" I used "Intro C."
- For "Intro B" I used "Intro A" (since there is no "Intro D").
- For "Ending A" I used "Ending C."
- For "Ending B" I used "Ending A" (since there is no "Ending D").
Thus, the original "Main A" and "Fill In AA" sections are used in three files; the original "Main B" and "Fill In BB" sections are used in three files; the original "Main C" and "Fill In CC" sections are used in three files; and the original "Main D" and "Fill In DD" sections are used in three files. And the original "Intro A" and "Ending A" sections are used in four files; the original "Intro B" and "Ending B" sections are used in four files; and the original "Intro C" and "Ending C" sections are used in four files.

(7) I really should have done step (7) before step (5), but I wasn't smart enough to think of that! I used the "Style Revoicer" program to check the voices used in the converted files and change them as needed to voices that are available on the PSR-E443 and PSR-EW400. This involves checking the Prg., MSB, and LSB values of each channel's voice and seeing if they're listed in the "Voice List" for the desired keyboard. Note that Yamaha adds 1 to the Prg. numbers, so you need to add 1 to Prg. values shown in "Style Revoicer" before looking in your keyboard's "Voice List." Fortunately all of the voices used in the style were available on the PSR-E443 and PSR-EW400, with only one exception-- Prg. 0, MSB 0, LSB 113 ("GrandPiano"). I changed the channels with that voice so they use LSB 112 instead (i.e., Prg. 0, MSB 0, LSB 112, which is called "Live! Grand Piano" on the PSR-EW400).

(8) Just to make sure everything worked, I used the "Musicsoft Downloader" program to transfer the six style files to the "Flash Memory" of my PSR-E443, then loaded the first five files into Styles 201, 202, 203, 204, and 205. (I didn't actually test the sixth style file, but if the other five work then it should, too.) I then tried each style, checking all of its sections (Intro->A, Main A, Fill A->B, Main B, and Ending B, as well as Intro->B, Main B, Fill B->A, Main A, and Ending A).

I've zipped seven files together-- the six that contain two variations each, along with the converted SFF1 file that contains all four of the original variations. You can try out each of the six 2-variation versions and see which one you like best, or use all of them if you wish. :)

By the way, I only saw the one file attached to your earlier post. If you'd meant to attach more, it looks like they didn't make it.

If you put the six 2-variation files on a USB thumb drive, make sure you put them in the root directory as mentioned by Ted!
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443
 

Offline jonboy1

Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2017, 10:10:07 AM »
wow thanks very much that`s fantastic. You certainly know your way around these keyboards and programs!

I have downloaded it and will load it on to the keyboard.Thanks very much for your time. I did originally try and upload more than one file but I must have done it wrong. I will have to try and learn to use some of these programs/file converters that you have mentioned.

at the beginning of the post andyg mentioned the psr 3000 or above as being a keyboard that you can change the sounds for parts when playing midi files.

I have been looking on ebay and at the moment  the psr 3000 is more expensive (second hand prices)  than the psr 6000, am I wrongly assuming the psr 6000 is the better keyboard?
 

Online SeaGtGruff

Re: psr ew400 how to play midi files
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2017, 11:07:59 AM »
Usually, the higher the number, the better the keyboard, but that's not always the case. The year of release can make a big difference. To be sure, check the specifications of whichever models you're comparing:

Date (MIDI Implementation Chart): 21-Jan-2004 (PSR-3000) vs. 06/02 1994 (PSR-6000)
Polyphony (max.): 128 (PSR-3000) vs. 38 (PSR-6000)
Voices: 332 + 480 XG + 17 Kits + GM2 + GS (PSR-3000) vs. 128 Preset + 128 Custom (PSR-6000)

I don't think you need to look much further than that. The PSR-3000 is clearly the better keyboard! :)
Michael Rideout
YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443