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PSR Tutorial Forum  |  Yamaha Keyboards  |  Yamaha Keyboards - General (Moderator: Bill Grosse)  |  Topic: 950 vs Tyros 4 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: 950 vs Tyros 4  (Read 15823 times)
smarano
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« on: September 19, 2012, 01:40:40 PM »

I haven't been able to track down a single retailer in the New York metro area that carries the PSR-S910, 950 or Tyros 4.
 So with that in mind, I would appreciate any advice on following.  I realize a couple of the questions below have probably been
asked in one form or another on this forum before, so I apologize in advance (and if there's an existing thread that answers them,
feel free to point me to it).

For the record,  I'm coming at this from the standpoint of purchasing one of these instruments to complement
my Motif XF8 and several soft (VST) synths and Kontakt/Synthogy piano samples.  

1) I went through the user manuals for both the PSR-S950 and the Tyros 4.
It looks like they are almost identical re functionality.  Tyros 4 offers sampling,  and more sophisticated
editing of voices and processing of audio files into multi-tracks, while 950 adds some new 'time-stretching' capability
to USB audio).   Am I correct in this, or are there any significantly desirable Tyros functions that are missing in the 950?
Given that I already own the Motif, Cubase,  and a bunch of soft synths,  I have little need for a sampler or sequencer.

2) Am I correct that the chief difference between the two keyboards is the higher quality super-articulated
voices of the Tyros 4?   For my purposes (a complement to the Motif),  my feeling/hope is that 950 voices
are still very high quality, and Tyros improvements wouldn't justify paying more than twice the price of the 950.

3) From my reading of the 950 and Tyros 4 manuals, it doesn't look like either provides the equivalent of the Motif's
arpeggiator.  One of the things I really like about the Motif is how its arpeggiator can simulate the strumming and picking
of acoustic guitars.   Does the 950 offer similar functionality?  The Tyros?   If so, are these articulations only available
through use of the styles?   My concern is that this would be too constricting (wouldn't allow for free form simulation
of an acoustic guitar).

Any advice on the above would be greatly appreciated.

Steve in Jersey
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 01:42:15 PM by smarano » Logged
travlin-easy
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2012, 04:59:45 PM »

Steve,

My best advice is not to try and compare anything by asking for opinions of a handful of individuals on ANY forum. It's not a long drive from New Jersey to Connecticut where you can meet up with Frank Vestra at http://www.audioworksct.com/ Frank is extremely knowledgeable, has the keyboards in the store and will be more than happy to guide you to the best board for your needs.

Good Luck,

Gary Cool
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Joe H
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2012, 05:23:54 PM »

Steve,

One thing I think you can do as for as arpeggiators go. I believe the arpeggiators on the Motif output over MIDI. So you can record your custom arps to a sequencer, add filter sweeps, pan sweeps, effects or whatever. From there you can use a free program available on this forum called PadMaker-MIdi to turn your custom arps into MultiPads.

You can check the program out here.  http://psrtutorial.com/MB/padmakermidi.html

I wish I had access to a Motif to do this myself. I'm currently experimenting with my Proteus 1000 v2.26 which has live arpeggiators that you can "play" realtime to create improvisations of the arps, but they are not quite as good as Yamaha's.

Thanks to members like Michael Bedesem and others, we are able to get much more out of our arrangers than how they came to us straight out-of-the-box.

Joe H
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 05:31:01 PM by Joe H » Logged

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smarano
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2012, 07:06:51 PM »

Thanks, Travlin-easy.  Sounds like your recommendation to contact Frank Vestra will have me
literally mirroring your nickname!  I will certainly give Frank a call and arrange a trip to Connecticut.

And thanks, Joe H.  I will definitely explore the program you recommend, and multi pads in general.
One followup question for you:  I read in the Tyros/950 user manuals where one of the Multi Pad options
is called 'Chord Match.'  Am I correct in assuming that this could effectively mirror the functionality of an arpeggiator
by allowing me to alter the notes that are voiced by the keyboard simply by altering the chord played by my left hand?
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Bill Grosse
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 07:43:26 PM »

smarano,

Yes, you are correct about the chords in left hand working with pads set that way and
there are many pads that come with these keyboards that already work like that.

One additional thing - the individual voices of the arranger styles are a lot like arps.
In fact you will find many of the style parts already in your Motif.  Wink
Takes some digging, but they are there and once you learn how to get around on the arranger,
you will recognize those arps when you look closely at the Motif Datalist.

Bill G
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smarano
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 08:06:07 PM »

Thanks, Bill.
This sort of begs the question:  by acquiring an arranger,  would I effectively be duplicating functionality that I
already have and could uncover simply by becoming more adept at the Motif?   And maybe a different keyboard would be
more sensible?  The original impetus behind me looking into arrangers was that I was seeking a 'synth-style' keyboard
for playing fast passages and thus complement the weighted hammer action of the XF8.  
And I figured an arranger keyboard would be a great complement to a workstation.
If my Motif effectively already has styles,  a more cost effective route for me might be a simple MIDI controller keyboard.
I'm guessing you might have experience with combination of workstation and arranger and could advise?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 08:29:59 PM by smarano » Logged
Joe H
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2012, 09:23:52 PM »

smarano,

As Bill stated, there are some very nice arps used in the style parts. You can also copy those style parts using a different program and make pads out of them also. The point I was making, is you could use the Motif to create unique pads not availabe on an arranger.

If you WERE to make arps on the Motif that will play correctly using Chord Match, you must use only the following notes: C, E, G, B, A, and D.  Otherwise the keyboard may not transpose the arpeggio correctly when following the chords played on the left hand.

Joe H
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 09:32:01 PM by Joe H » Logged

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EileenL
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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2012, 05:06:25 AM »

Hi Steve
  I have just had a phone call from my dealer here in the UK. He saw the 950 and played it yesterday. He was very impressed and will have them in a couple of weeks when I will go and try one. The audio drums make quite a difference to the sound. In Tyros 4 we do have some of the motif arpeggiator patterns in certain styles and they can be copied to multi pads quite easily using Michael Bedesons excellent programme.
  Some of these styles are on the new 950 to.
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BIFF
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2012, 11:04:05 AM »

 Huh   Are their any demos on line of the new 950?    Huh
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Bill Grosse
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2012, 11:44:59 AM »

Biff,

Lots of them at the following link:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=PSR-S950&oq=PSR-S950&gs_l=youtube.3..35i39l2j0i33.2059.6364.0.6864.8.8.0.0.0.0.140.985.0j8.8.0...0.0...1ac.1.NlHtEMyy_lY

Bill G
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2012, 11:53:42 AM »

I have posted demos, one of my own and the Yamaha ones here:
http://www.jameswoodcock.co.uk/2012/10/15/yamaha-psr-s950-keyboard-main-demonstration-video/

It really is hard to compare any PSR-S keyboard of any generation with a Tyros keyboard.  Tyros is the flagship and includes a few notable additions that can make a real difference such as huge selection of voices and styles with massive expandability - and for me a key plus is that you have three possible simultaneous right hand voices.  PSR-S950 for example though has built-in speakers and is easier when it needs to be transported for gigs etc.

So really it depends heavily on personal requirements and how much you are willing to spend, rather than whether one is good and the other bad.
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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 04:20:27 AM »

In my opinion they are 2 different animals and some will like features better on both
If the mid range PSR 's were too close to a tyros; feature and ability wise, then why would anybody buy a Tyros for almost twice as much
The S950 is a great alternative if you can live without some of the features and voices and recording capabilities.
S950 with on board speakers  and lighter weight make it a good portable, nice sounding all around keyboard for quick play and enjoyment without strapping you $$$
Tyros 4 as we know is heavier for transporting on gigs and is good where you set it up and leave alone; perhaps in your studio environment and with good powered  monitors with a sub.

Keyboardist
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 04:22:30 AM by Keyboardist » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2012, 06:56:46 AM »

Yes Keyboardist you can't compare the S950 with Tyros 4. It is a nice little keyboard in its own right. I have got mine for the ease of use each week at rehersals. Much lighter to carry. I still use my Tyros 4 on the main show though. Also pleased I can use all my Tyros reg banks and custom styles in it to. Makes life a lot easier.
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« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2012, 06:59:51 AM »

I think the S950 is a very good deal compared to the Tyros.

Now we have a way to add new professional sounding voices.
Record and play audio files.
And, make audio multipads.
Now we are getting some of those great Tyros voices too.

I sure do hope I can get one before the next model is released.  Shocked

Bill G
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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2012, 08:58:00 AM »

Bill,

A friend of mine at Yamaha told me your S950 fell off the back of the truck and got ran over by an 18 wheeler... so they are having to make you a new one and you will have to go to the back of the line. 

Sorry.   Cry

Joe H

PS: He said not to worry... you should receive in time for your 40th birthday!   Grin
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 11:56:27 AM by Joe H » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2012, 06:02:44 PM »

I think they do sound pretty close. Maybe not so much for the player who knows the sound but for listener, I don't think many people will be able to tell difference in blind test. The tyros has the little things like the articulation buttons, after touch, bigger display, lot of lights and many such little things making it "complete" keyboard. A great player can use those little things to add that little sonic spice to the performance. Not that too many people will appreciate it, but ...

It is really more like buying a very nice car and buying a luxury car. The price difference is big, but the real difference is mostly in tiny details.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 06:06:12 PM by RVoz » Logged
Dick Rector
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« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2012, 07:47:41 PM »

"It is really more like buying a very nice car and buying a luxury car. The price difference is big, but the real difference is mostly in tiny details."

I can't more agree!! A walnut finished dashboard is very nice to look at. But the nicely finished plastic ones do the job as well for a LOT less money.

Regards
Dick
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« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2012, 11:23:13 AM »

I think i am offended ! It still can not be any thing like the T4 ! I would like to know the real differences as r the styles and voices the same. etc...Why didn't i save tons of money and just get the 950 ?
Gee I messed up!!
Gary
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« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2012, 12:07:48 PM »

Gary,

"Gee I messed up!!"


I don't know about that... some folks just don't know the difference. The Tyros 4 has SA2 Voices and AEM Technology, full blown Voice editing at the "Element" level. A better keybed, external effect loop, bouncing on the WAV audio recorder, tilting screen, internal hard drive, etc, etc, etc.

A PSR is NOT a Tyros, though Yamaha is willing to include SOME of the Tyros voices in the latest PSR release.

A PSR is a PSR... and a Tyros is a Tyros.  PERIOD!

 Cool

Joe H
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 12:09:24 PM by Joe H » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2012, 12:58:57 PM »

Tanks Joe...as long as I didn't mess up  5200 vs 1900 LOL
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« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2012, 12:00:17 AM »

If you don't do paid gigs there is little reason to go for Tyros just for personal entertainment. The PSR will entertain perfectly you and your family and friends as arranger, it all falls and stands on the player entertaining abilities. The PSR910/950 does have fantastic sound, far beyond living-room standards.
And in fact for price of Tyros you can get PSR910 plus Motif XF or fantom G as a super combo - arguably this will give you far more fun than tyros alone and you get arranger for fun and real workstation for the other fun.
There is also the issue of big loss of value of the top of the line. The moment Yamaha release Tyros 5 (or something) the T4 price drops in half. That is for most people drop of price equal or higher than the whole price of PSR-950 (!).

If you do paid gigs then there is no point, the T4 will pay for itself very quickly and with Tyros you don't look like someone who took keyboard from his kids to do gigs. The PSR has that look with its build speakers and rubber buttons. The Tyros is more "black tie" looking and you don't really care about any long term value. You play for money, it is a tool.

I was thinking very hard where the SA2 and AEM play role and the only real reason for me would be recording. On gigs and venues, most of this is far "lost in transmission". The people neither hear nor care about difference. They want entertainment. But then for recording there are more flexible boards.

Anyway I do think the 950 has a huge potential for most people.
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« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2012, 06:59:13 AM »

It depends on your needs.  I prefer the light, flimsy maybe, keys on the PSR.  I prefer not to lug around the larger Tyros.  I don't especially care for the ooohs and aaaahs that much.  I like the speakers for monitoring or really small jobs.  I don't need the hard drive.  There are plenty of sounds without editing at the element level (that sounds hard Smiley ) .
I use an external recorder anyway and don't have a need for external effects.
There are other features that are better on the Tyros 4 also, but as said above, you use the tool that is best suited for your own needs. 
If the S950 works out for me, I'll probably buy another one for backup.  Still cheaper than one T4!
I'm sitting here biding time watching for the Fedex truck.  I plan to stick my USB drive from the S900 into the 950, tweak stuff for a few hours, and most likely use the new kb on the job tonight.  That's brave, right?   Smiley
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« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2012, 07:28:23 AM »

Sorry to say... Tyros 4 freekin rules regardless of all the rederick . It is an awesome thing to know that I have the BEST keyboard there is . That way I can sleep at night and be WOW... happy
Just my humble opinion
Gary
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« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2012, 08:30:40 AM »

It's great you are happy with your choice.  Enjoy!
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« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2012, 08:33:57 AM »

Hi,

In our countries giggers prefer the S910 / S950.
Weight seems to be the reason.

Best regards, Jeff
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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2012, 12:47:57 PM »

I tend to agree...the T4 is hard to take down and set up vs the 900 series. I took my T4 to a Gig last week....great reviews but my back has been sore ever since.  This Saturday for the Marine Corps birthday celebration I think I will take along the 900.  For what is worth....thats my opinion.  Flip
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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2012, 01:42:53 PM »

Cheese Louise...T 4 is only 33 pounds. Gee...wonder what the 950 weighs ?
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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2012, 02:23:09 PM »

The S950 weighs 25 Lbs

Joe H

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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2012, 02:48:19 PM »

Joe.. yer a fine feller
Thanx
Gary
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« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2012, 02:10:07 PM »

The 950 is a limited Tyros 2 with additional Sweet! Cool! Live! voices, but not more articulation voices. Tyros 3 is better and if you want audio styles, the built in sampler could be used.
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« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2012, 03:41:15 PM »

Thanx RF.  I can't believe this is even possible to even compare this 950 to the flagship beast T4 . More like wishful thinkin . Bottom line...If it is important to the person to have only the best then pay the price and never worry again that you did not do the right thing and that is... Only the beast can be the right thing to do.Money can not be the object .... it is important to sleep well at night . Yehawwwwww
Gary
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« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2012, 07:29:48 PM »

Joe H wrote:

"A PSR is a PSR... and a Tyros is a Tyros.  PERIOD!"

I have to agree with him completely!

 Grin

Joe H
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« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2012, 08:26:54 PM »

Me toooooooo Joe H, I totally agree with you. Don't you get a bit fed up with this endless conversation? Roll Eyes

You are 100% correct, a PSR S950 is NOT a Tyros of any sort. It doesn't even look like one, don't you think?
That's why it is called a PSR.
I thought I was misinformed but just checked it again with Yamaha and they confirmed it:
QUOTE: "You can believe us, a PSR is NOT a Tyros, Not a Tyros 1, or 2, or 3 and not even close to a Tyros 4. We wished we could give you a Tyros for the same money but you will understand in today's economic... etc etc." QUOTE"

It seems that some people can't stop comparing fresh and salt water. Let me tell you folks, they are both very, VERY wet! But there is a difference.

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« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2012, 10:05:37 PM »

Well, PSR 2000 was close to 9000, PSR 3000 was pretty close to Tyros 1, PSR S900 was pretty close to Tyros 2.
Why doesn't PSR S910 and 950 not continue?
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« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2012, 11:06:07 PM »

Rant follows:
PSR were supposed to be build as a home keyboard equally interesting to kids or adults. Except they are not.

One idea that is always propagating on these boards is that PSR is a dumbed down copy of Tyros. That is totally wrong.
It is the other way around, Tyros was build as a premium PSR with the very explicit aim to sell it to older generation.

They build a PSR, then make that better for next Tyros, not the other way around. The styles we have in Tyros came from generations of PSR's. so do the sounds. We have 950 with audio rhythms that would normally appear in a year in Tyros 5 in expanded version (but I doubt for T5).

Where Yamaha really got stuck is that PSR is no longer for this generation music. Kids don't want it for Christmas. It has no current sounds, the added "modern" styles sound like dressed up 90's disco. Foxtrot?, Cha-cha? That would sell to young people? How?
But then Yamaha has no other home keyboard...

So we have a little Tyros (PSR) and a big Tyros for practically the same type of music and now same type of audience.

Leave the Tyros as it is, I think it is already perfected for the type of music intended, but please modernize the PSR to win young people back. Put an ipad dock with a pattern sequencer app and cloud option. Built in a phrase sampler with pads. Loose the Cha-Cha and Foxtrots and Rhumbas - basically put RM1x in a keyboard form and make it tweakable and playable and young people will fly back to yamaha. And we won't have PSR or Tyros conversation.
End of rant
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 11:08:27 PM by RVoz » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2012, 04:23:21 AM »

It's a pity I haven't noticed this thread before. I was looking for any info and comparisons in 910/950 section when finally decided to pay for the S950 assuming the long and expensive oversea shipment.

I do agree with most of the opinions here, summarized like it was quoted  by Dick Rector:
...with Yamaha and they confirmed it:
QUOTE: "You can believe us, a PSR is NOT a Tyros, Not a Tyros 1, or 2, or 3 and not even close to a Tyros 4. We wished we could give you a Tyros for the same money but you will understand in today's economic... etc etc." QUOTE"
 
After having compared the tracks kindly provided over here  http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=19052.0
I physically lost my appetite for 950 and any other PSR.
The difference I've heard at first glance was not so big, but sharp.
But while listening the stuff via KRK monitors the 950 sounded just drastically worse for me, even with the same volume after normalization.
 
The Tyros 4 or 5 is the only choice for me now as a matter of a fact.
 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 11:46:45 AM by Petro2 » Logged
Joe H
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« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2012, 11:13:32 AM »

RVoz,

I agree that Yamaha has missed the younger generation market, but things are improving with the S950. I purchased the Euro Dance VSE pack. I own an S910 so I have extracted the 40 styles and 12 MultiPad Banks (48 pads in all ) using Jorgen Jorensen's Styles in YEP program.

I am currently remixing the styles to play on my S910. It is a lot of work since the styles use custom drum kits and custom Voices for all the styles. The drum notes must be remapped in order to use the S910 drum kits.

What I can say is these Expansion Pack dance styles are superior to the internal styles of all previous keyboards. Better programming and will work great for current dance music.  They use longer patterns and loops in each Section, and many arps and step sequence loops are from the Motif I'm sure. Great stuff in my opinion.

So if you have an S750 or S950, you can have some really great dance styles appealing to  20 somethings and 30 somethings.

BTW... I'd love to see a live arpeggiator on a future PSR arranger. Arps are not just for dance music, they can be used for many genre of musically styles... country, jazz, new age, pop, etc.

Joe H
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 11:23:25 AM by Joe H » Logged

Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for Contemporary Dance Music. Download Registrations, Styles & Multi Pads:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
Flip
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« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2012, 11:36:22 AM »

There is a saying:  Time and Tide waits for no one.  I am reading this post with a lot of interest. My biggest complaint is that Yamaha neglects us 50's/60's era buyers.  I see a lot of 80'/90/s Styles....its very interesting to see the complaints re these from the the "younger folks"....they consider these old hat.  I am sure ( I guess) that Yamaha does a lot of Market Research to determine who exactly is buying their product.  Based on what I see available on the KB's.......its the 40 to 50  aged crowd.  Not many of us "oldies" left or "newbies" to demand the lion's share of the action.  Another saying:  You can't please every body.  Flip
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Joe H
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« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2012, 11:44:37 AM »

Flip,

I think Yamaha has done a good job of trying to build a keyboard that appeals to everyone. The Expansion Packs in the newer model keyboards add more value and increases the probability of satisfying more interests and more generations of buyers.

 Smiley

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 11:46:48 AM by Joe H » Logged

Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for Contemporary Dance Music. Download Registrations, Styles & Multi Pads:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
Flip
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« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2012, 11:55:26 AM »

Joe, I tend to agree with you.  The "younger" crowd are into "gadgets".....the top of the line KB's offer all kinds of options to build whatever suits your fancy......styles, voices etc.......but they want more.  Hell, I can hardly figure out my cell phone.  Flip
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