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PSR Tutorial Forum  |  Yamaha Keyboards  |  Yamaha Keyboards - General (Moderator: Bill Grosse)  |  Topic: new software - StyleMagic this is editor for style and midi files 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: new software - StyleMagic this is editor for style and midi files  (Read 33774 times)
thomasms
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« on: May 12, 2012, 03:46:39 AM »

Hello

I want to show You a new style and midi file editor.

StyleMagic program is designed primarily for editing style files (*.sty, *.prs, *.sst) of SFF1 and SFF2 format, for Yamaha electronic instruments.
StyleMagic is also suitable for editing midi and karaoke files (*.mid, *.kar) of SMF0 and SMF1 format, for Yamaha electronic instruments.
In StyleMagic You can build style from a midi file, divide into sections, add parameters CASM and You can make the full edition of finished styles, StyleMagic is equipped with all necessary tools for editing styles.
StyleMagic works with all Yamaha keyboards (Tyros, PSR) and also Clavinova instruments.

Feel free to test and express their observations.
http://www.midisoft.pl/en/

Regards
Thomas
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MBedesem
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2012, 05:06:05 AM »

Thomas:

StyleMagic looks very powerful.

It it possible to view and edit a Casm or to create SFF2 files from Sff1 files?

Is there a procedure in the manual that one can follow to create a style file from a midi?

Regards,

Michael


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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2012, 05:24:08 AM »

Hi,

I have the same questions as Michael - also in the manual you say that a section can be copied, also in the demo??

Regards <> Piet
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thomasms
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2012, 02:56:15 AM »

Hi

The answer to the question MBedesem.
Just a few steps.
The first step is to truly see the midi file, delete unwanted channel, make transpose to the simplest key signature (CMaj).
The second step is, to divide into sections (Main A, Main B, Intro, Ending, etc.).
The third step, make transpose in the sections (except Intro and Ending section), so that the whole section was in a single tone (exp: CMaj7).
The fourth step is to configure parameters of CASM (Chord Root, Chord Type, NTR, NTT, PTR ect.), for more information, also You will find the manual for the Yamaha keyboard.

The answer to the question Pieterpan.
In the demo is not available only save file function, other functions are available same as in the full version.
Section of copying with drag and drop method in Section manager.
Copy section - press and hold Ctrl button [ang. CTRL] on the PC keyboard and drag and drop the selected section to empty section.

Regards
Thomas
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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2012, 05:31:23 AM »

Hi Thomas,

Is there a YouTube video showing me how to take a midi file and turn it into a style? I have looked at the demo version and I didn't have a clue as to what I was looking at on the screen. I would need to spend hours trying to figure out what it all meant. Trying to use the Yamaha manual is out of the question ... as for years it has been reported NOT user friendly.

I don't care to spend hours figuring out how to use something only to discover it won't do what I'd like it to easily do.

So, if there is a video demonstrating how easy it is to take a midi file and converting it into a style, that would peak my interest in making a purchase. But all I see (as a newbie) is me needing to spend a lot of time learning something I may never use.

Your thoughts?
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2012, 09:01:08 AM »

Hello....we r waiting
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2012, 11:06:27 AM »

Just an observation:

StyleMagic allows you to cut and paste from a midi file, transposes etc. As with sequencers and other midi editors, it does not convert a midi into the style. It takes thought and work. Programs such as Midi to Style and One Man Band may get you closer, but everyone agrees there are no magic solutions to making styles from midi files.

If you want a higher probability of success (and step by step documentation), then you might consider the Assembly feature in the StyleCreator.

Regards,

Michael


 

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Michael P. Bedesem
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2012, 12:15:34 PM »

As an addendum at Michaels remarks the program can convert SFF 2 in SFF 1 (and the other way around) in a very quick way. There's good acces to CASM data and cleans up CASM.

Regards <> PP
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2012, 12:24:42 PM »

Hi

Michael: Just my words...

Style creating requires a lot of skill, experiments and musical theory. These conditions are required for MIDI to style conversion too.  

Styles have a lot of "normally" unknown settings, which must be understood - at least to some degree. Besides this MIDI to style conversion is kind of "splitting a cake into its ingredients and use these ingredients for a new cake".

As you probably understand, this is not a simple process...

However for those who are willing to give it a try, get my midi2style software from http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/midi2style/index.htm
My next recommendation is to get the "Getting Started" guide from the same page. AND do the exercises in this guide your self...

This will give you a basic idea and understanding of the process.

Regards
Jørgen
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2012, 12:28:57 PM »

Hi

As an addendum at Michaels remarks the program can convert SFF 2 in SFF 1 (and the other way around) in a very quick way. There's good acces to CASM data and cleans up CASM.

Yes.
But if you do not understand what the numerous CASM settings do to your style...  Huh
Optimal CASM settings are not learnt in a snap...  Undecided

Regards
Jørgen
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2012, 01:52:21 PM »

Hi,
Midi and Style Software writers are brilliant people.
You guys enrich our lives.

Cheers,
limmy
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2012, 06:02:26 PM »

There really is no formal way to completely learn how to program the Casm or style files. Some years ago several programmers collaborated on documenting all the data that we had.

It is available here:

http://www.wierzba.homepage.t-online.de/stylefiles.htm

My best advice is to see if 1) there is a style in your collection(some have many 10's of thousands of styles so it is really hard to know)  ,2) Style Assembly will work, 3) you read the available material (above), and 4) you study Casm in Yamaha files to see what they contain.  

Note that T4/710/910 files may have guitar parts where the notes and Casm are totally different. Right now there is no definitive information on these and converting these styles to SFF1 is often the best option.

Regards,

Michael

« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 06:04:35 PM by MBedesem » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2012, 02:17:51 AM »

Hi

My first impressions with demo version are very good.

Bravo
Soundphase
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2012, 03:30:05 AM »

StyleMagic allows you to cut and paste from a midi file, transposes etc. As with sequencers and other midi editors, it does not convert a midi into the style. It takes thought and work. Programs such as Midi to Style and One Man Band may get you closer, but everyone agrees there are no magic solutions to making styles from midi files.

I totally agree with Michael - there's no complete style making program that in a easy way make you a style out of a midi. Personally I use OMB 10 (One Man Band) to generate my styles, after making the style I use (often) Casm Editor fron Osenenko to finetune some settings. To put in a OTS setting I use Jorgen Sorensens OTS Editor and to finalise the style I use Midi Editor from Michael Bedesem. The only advantage I see at the moment in Style Magic is the possibility to exchange styleparts in a easy way.

Style making is fun but oh so difficult.

Regards <> Piet
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2012, 06:54:35 AM »

The fact that all is grouped into the same tool is a good thing too.
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« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2012, 05:36:14 PM »

Kind of a late followup, but StyleMagic requires that you allow Thomas to access your computer via the internet to write a copy protection code to a USB thumb drive installed on your computer. The USB drive then functions as a dongle. Without the dongle the program will only function as the demo... no save capability.

FYI... Looks like Style Works by EMC does a pretty fair job of creating a style from a MIDI song file, and editing style files too but the program is out of my price range. You can also convert styles from one manufacturer to another. Sounds cool!

Anyone have experience with Style Works?

Joe H
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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2012, 11:24:25 AM »

Kind of a late followup, but StyleMagic requires that you allow Thomas to access your computer........

Joe H

Me too on the late followup....... I think his program is one of my favorites for style editing that I've looked at........    However, it's over priced, IMHO   I'd give $45 USD for it if he'd get rid of the dongle thing.....

And NOT because I want to pirate it......   Small companies regularly cease operations and if you have a program from a company that does go belly up AND the dongle breaks you are SOL.  I've had this happen to me on several Android (smart phone) apps and PC based stuff as well. 

I never buy software that I can't back up.  Are you reading, Thomas?
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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2012, 11:40:41 AM »

boowho,

I have made an appeal to Thomas exactly along the lines you have stated. I do not think he is willing to take a different approach. Too bad, the program has a very nice and intuitive interface and allows you to access nearly all style settings very easily, but does not allow you to import a section from a different style as you can do on your keyboard. It would become a very powerful program if you could load a style, save any Section of the style to disk, then load a new style and paste the section previously saved. StyleWorks can do that function.

I too would not pirate Thomas' program. If he changes his method of how the program is registered to the buyer and lowers the price a bit, I think his program might sell pretty well. I'm sure it was a lot of work to build StyleMagic.

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 11:41:56 AM by Joe H » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2012, 12:28:19 PM »

Hi

I have tried the demo.

Despite of what is stated about supporting SFF2 format (Tyros 3 & 4; PSR S710 / S910; PSR S750 / S950 native format) I see NOWHERE to set the new guitar paramaters in format SFF2. And this is excactly the main difference form SFF1...

The program claims it will convert between these formats. I have not been able to verify this as save is disabled in the demo.

Oh, yes I see that the program changes the Marker SFF1 to SFF2 and vice versa.
But this is NOT conversion as structure (and values) of the CASM data are quite different between SFF1 and SFF2 formats.

Two short questions to Thomas:
1.
Is this program able to convert forward and back between SFF1 and SFF2 (i.e. change the structure and values in the CASM data). Yes og No ?
2.
Where do I find the new Guitar settings in SFF2 format ?

Jørgen
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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2012, 05:57:39 PM »

Jorgen,

Your points are well taken. Thank you for presenting your questions. I've wondered about the lack of the guitar codes in the program also. EMC  has also (to my knowledge) not been able to support SFF2 in StyleWorks.

It appears only Yamaha knows exactly what they have done and the company will probably never release that technical information to third party developers.

We can only hope Yamaha produces a full-blown style editor one day, that would be nice!

Joe H
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2012, 06:38:07 PM »


We can only hope Yamaha produces a full-blown style editor one day, that would be nice!

Joe H


Yeah, can you imagine what a good developer with access to the complete SFF2 spec could create?  Especially if the "marketing types" (Y! USA; not Japan)  just got out of the way??

Y! are you reading??

BTW, how about Cubase??  Does it do anything with style files now that Y! owns Steinberg??  Anyone checked on that?


Boowho??
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« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2012, 12:05:11 AM »

Hi

(snip)
It appears only Yamaha knows exactly what they have done and the company will probably never release that technical information to third party developers.
(snip)

They have never released ANY technical information about CASM; internal code numbers for Multi Pads; internal code numbers for styles; and a lot of other things.
Only the manual. And the information there is not sufficient for programming.

Jørgen
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« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2012, 02:18:05 AM »

Why are folks so negative about this program, give the guy the benefit of the doubt - there are so few programming style software developpers. Yes there are a lot of questions about this program but let's wait a while - developping takes a lot of time - BTW EMC has also failures, OMB too.

Be a little patient.

Regards <> Piet
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« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2012, 03:31:34 AM »

Hi

I am not negative. The program has a great User Interface.

But if the programs is told to could convert SFF2 to SFF1 and vice versa - and it can not do this properly (or at all) - the program is technically no better than others around.

Then most programs are FREE (just like mine) and this one is not...

Jørgen

 
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« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2012, 06:04:20 AM »

Jorgen,

Did you buy a licence or are you working with a demo version. I have a licence but no T4, I use the program to convert a home made style to SFF2, maybe you can test it?

Regards <> Piet
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« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2012, 07:07:37 AM »

Hi

I have the demo.

From the 2 sample files attached to your message, I notice that there is no new Guitar setting in the CASM data.
This "conversion" is excactly what SFF2 format keyboards do when you load a SFF1 format style and save it.
NO NEED FOR SPECIAL SOFTWARE TO DO THIS

I found NOWHERE to set the new Guitar parameters in the CASM data...

My conclusion about Style Format conversion:
For SFF1 to SFF2 conversion: A SFF2 keyboard will do this automatically
For SFF2 to SFF1 conversion: Use my "Style Format 2 Converter" software (free) at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sf2c/index.htm

My conclusion about CASM data editing:
SFF1 CASM data: The program can edit SFF1 format CASM data. So can my "CASM Editor" software (free) at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/casmedit/index.htm - and some other programs too.   
SFF2 CASM data: The program can NOT edit SFF2 format CASM data. No other software available at the moment can do this. 

Jørgen
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« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2012, 11:23:03 AM »

Why are folks so negative about this program, give the guy the benefit of the doubt - there are so few programming style software developpers. Yes there are a lot of questions about this program but let's wait a while - developping takes a lot of time - BTW EMC has also failures, OMB too.

Be a little patient.

Regards <> Piet

I am not negative......  For me it's the best thing out there.    But I'm poor and $82 USD is more than I can afford.   And my earlier comment RE protection still stands.   

It's a shame that good developers have to go to such lengths to protect their work from the scumbags.   I've heard that as much as 25% of the executable code in Cubase is there ONLY for software protection!!

All that's lacking in Style Magic (for me at least....  I'm not too worried about SFF2 support) is a better window in the MultiEditor. 

For example, you should be able to modify notes on the piano roll just by drag and drop.  Same way with the controller section of that window. Finally, the docs are somewhat lacking IMHO.

I can't remember as it's been a long time since I've looked at it, but Joergen does your latest CASM editor support editing the MIDI parts of the file or just the CASM section?

I started using OSENENKO's tool years ago before I discovered that Joergen did one as well. 

And finally, I did software development for over 38 years, so I KNOW the effort that goes into ANY of these tools.   My hat is of to ALL you guys.

Boowho??
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« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2012, 11:57:29 PM »

Hi

My CASM Editor software is for CASM data editing only.

Many/most people prefer their MIDI sequencer for editing the MIDI part of the style.

They first use my "Style Split and Splice" software ( http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sands/index.htm ) to divide the style in a MIDI and non-MIDI (CASM) part.

After editing these two parts seperately; they splice the two parts - using the same software.

Regards
Jørgen

PS: I think StyleMagic is a nice software, especially nice, integrated User Interface. But as stated above it can do no more than other softwares available.
 
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« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2012, 12:45:27 AM »

Hi Jørgen, if I can ask.
I have been using Casm edit, but for editing only notes in style your software Style split and splice seems to be easier. I tried it, but style originally *.sst was spliced to *.sty. Can it handle specified type of style? What about ssf2?
Miro
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« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2012, 02:12:51 AM »

Hi Joergen,

It looks like there is no sequence program on the market ( yet ) that reads SFF2, right ?
Will it ever come ?
Best regards, Jeff
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« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2012, 02:37:52 AM »

Hi

Hi Jørgen, if I can ask.
I have been using Casm edit, but for editing only notes in style your software Style split and splice seems to be easier. I tried it, but style originally *.sst was spliced to *.sty. Can it handle specified type of style? What about ssf2?
Miro

From http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/Style_10.htm
Style File Format and Name
Style files had some years ago always ".sty" file extension. Now a number of files extensions are used: pst (pianist); pcs (piano combo); sst (session); prs (pro); bcs (basic) and fps (free play).

Just rename between these file extensions. No effect on the style itself.

Style Split and Splice will handle SFF2 styles.
It simply splits the file in two parts (MIDI and non-MIDI). After editing these two parts in appropriate software it can splice these two parts to the edited style.

MIDI can be edited in sequencer software
non-MIDI = CASM can be edited in CASM Editor software (link above). SFF1 style format only!! Meaning you will have to convert SFF2 format styles to SFF1 format in the first place (before splitting the style) using my "Style Format 2 Converter" software at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sf2c/index.htm 

Jørgen


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« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2012, 02:40:44 AM »

Hi

Hi Joergen,

It looks like there is no sequence program on the market ( yet ) that reads SFF2, right ?
Will it ever come ?
Best regards, Jeff

When someone has cracked / reverse engineered the CASM SFF2 format, then yes, most probably.

Having cracked the original CASM format more than 10 years ago I can say that cracking formats isn't an easy task...

Jørgen
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« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2012, 03:02:16 AM »

Thank you Jørgen for your quick reply. I am planning to upgrade my PSR 1500 to something newer and there is a lot of work with styles so I am looking for the easiest way. Your soft looks very good.
I dont understand why Yamaha does not provide PC software to edit everything including styles on PC...
Miro
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« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2012, 03:15:15 AM »

Miro,

I believe the main reason Yamaha does not provide PC editing software for style making
has to do with not giving away the coding used by the keyboard operating sytem.
This keeps anyone from altering the OS or introducing viruses into the keyboard.
Hackers are very good at taking programs apart and figuring things out for their own devious purposes.  Wink

Bill G
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« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2012, 03:25:42 AM »

Bill, I did not think about it...  Shocked
So I dont have to buy antivirus for my instrument!  Grin
Miro
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« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2012, 05:20:43 PM »

Miro,

I believe the main reason Yamaha does not provide PC editing software for style making
has to do with not giving away the coding used by the keyboard operating sytem.
This keeps anyone from altering the OS or introducing viruses into the keyboard.
Hackers are very good at taking programs apart and figuring things out for their own devious purposes.  Wink

Bill G


You are probably be right.....  About 10 years ago I actually ordered the schematics for a PSR500 to find out which chip was the EPROM for the styles.  I unsoldered the chip and used a chip reader to extract the contents.  

I foolishly thought that the contents would simply be .STY file images burned in to the EPROM.   After a short time trying to analyse the contents (Mr Bedesem tried to help) it was discovered that the contents were compressed with some unknown algorithm

I was able to verify this by using a zip program to try to compress the data myself.  PKZIP compressed the contents by only a few bytes which told me that the data was already compressed.

Real shame too, as the 500 had a couple of styles that I simply LOVED and have never been able to find them anywhere else.   In particular, one of the big-band styles made extensive used of alternate patterns based upon MAJ, 7th, min, and/or min7th.  It also had a terrific boogie-woogie ragtime style.

Regards

Boowho??
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« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2012, 05:39:51 PM »

Hi

My CASM Editor software is for CASM data editing only.

Many/most people prefer their MIDI sequencer for editing the MIDI part of the style.

They first use my "Style Split and Splice" software ( http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/sands/index.htm ) to divide the style in a MIDI and non-MIDI (CASM) part.

After editing these two parts seperately; they splice the two parts - using the same software.

Regards
Jørgen

PS: I think StyleMagic is a nice software, especially nice, integrated User Interface. But as stated above it can do no more than other softwares available.
  

Yes I thought so.   Not to diminish you in the slightest, because we ALL know the efforts you've put in programming, running the web site, etc, etc, etc and it's CERTAINLY appreciated by me.  

But OSENEKNO's editor does have primitive editing of the MIDI data via an event list.

Adding a simple track and/or staff window that supports all MIDI event types that are needed by style files (drag and drop, of course) and he might have a smash hit on his hands.  Maybe even a COMMERCIAL success!!!

The ideal (for me) would be a window or two as I mentioned attached directly to his editor.  

My wants/needs are simple and pgms like Cubase, Cakewalk, et al are WAY overkill for my tastes; the learning curve is VERY steep.

Finally, someone will probably say "well smarty-pants since you have 38 years of programming experience why don't you just do it yourself??"    

I ***might*** consider it if I had his source code as a starting point.....  But more than likely I still wouldn't do it, cause I'm just too dern LAZY.  8-)

Boowho??
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 05:56:59 PM by boowho » Logged
Ed B
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« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2012, 05:53:13 PM »

Boowho
You need to take a look at MixMaster by Michael Bedesem I think it will meet your needs in conjunction with a CASM EDIT program. It is designed specifically for Yamaha keyboards.
http://www.psrtutorial.com/MB/mixMaster.html

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Ed B
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boowho
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« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2012, 06:02:43 PM »

Boowho
You need to take a look at MixMaster by Michael Bedesem I think it will meet your needs in conjunction with a CASM EDIT program. It is designed specifically for Yamaha keyboards.
http://www.psrtutorial.com/MB/mixMaster.html

Regards
Ed B

YIKES!!!!!  Just took a quick look an it looks pretty good.   How did I miss it??  I'm gonna DL it right now.   Thanks

Boowho??  
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 07:26:05 PM by boowho » Logged
Jørgen
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« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2012, 10:16:44 PM »

Hi

Yes I thought so.   Not to diminish you in the slightest, because we ALL know the efforts you've put in programming, running the web site, etc, etc, etc and it's CERTAINLY appreciated by me.  

But OSENEKNO's editor does have primitive editing of the MIDI data via an event list.

Adding a simple track and/or staff window that supports all MIDI event types that are needed by style files (drag and drop, of course) and he might have a smash hit on his hands.  Maybe even a COMMERCIAL success!!!
(snip)

Thanks.

My programs are developed to handle one problem/area at a time. Most people seem to like it this way... maybe simpler User Interface...

As far as I know Osenenko has given up further development of his software.

There is no commercial succes in CASM Editors. I have tried...
I developed an online CASM Editor in 2005 called "Creative Style Maker". Sold 6 (SIX) user licenses...
http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/csm/index.htm

No, it will not be opened again...!!!

Jørgen
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