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PSR Tutorial Forum  |  Yamaha Keyboards  |  Yamaha Keyboards - General (Moderator: Bill Grosse)  |  Topic: Voice & Style Expansion Packs from Yamaha! Questions & Concernes! 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Voice & Style Expansion Packs from Yamaha! Questions & Concernes!  (Read 16091 times)
Shefu
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« on: January 16, 2012, 12:22:56 PM »

Excited about these expansion packs I bought two of them: the Latin (South Europe) and the Balkan (East Europe) ones. Upon installing I realized that:

1) You can only have one of them installed at any time (I have a PSR A2000). Which doesn't really bother me that much, however:

2) There is no way to make any kind of adjustments to these styles and save them. This bothers me because I am not crazy about all the styles in each pack and I wanted to make a selection of the best ones on my stick, or Keyboard's Memory.

The Packs are compressed in the ".yep" format which is decompressed by the keyboard. There's no other direct access to the styles or voices in the packs. However in the Pack folder there's another folder i.e: REG Balkan which contains 10 .Reg files.

Is there a way to access the voices and styles in these Expansion Packs? Is there some sort of Editor that can dig in?


Thank you for your help!

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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 05:51:20 PM »

Shefu
The PSR a2000 appears to be the same as all other keyboards. To change the style you can do it in the style creator page 119 of your manual. Although talking about different keyboards our section on tuning styles will be helpful.
http://www.psrtutorial.com/lessons/tune/adjStyle/index.html
The "user expansion" button will allow you to retrieve the styles you modify or others. You should be able to use some of the styles from our main site.
http://www.psrtutorial.com/sty/gigDisks/index.html
I do not have the board but have taken a quick look at the manual. You could also edit them using many of the programs available on the main site as well if you wish.

Hope this helps
Ed B
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Shefu
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 06:45:00 PM »

Thanks for your input Ed however the Expansion Styles as I was explaining can not be saved as they are. That option is greyed out on the keyboard which is why I was asking if anyone knows of a way to get to the styles.
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 07:00:25 PM »


Shefu

I would have thought you could access the style in the expansion pack once it is loaded the same as the 650 where you can actually see the styles in the expansion pack before you load them.
Maybe its worth a call to Yamaha support because this would seem to be different from all other arrangers. It sure would be nice to be able to tune them a bit.
Ed B
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tyrosaurus
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 12:24:49 PM »

Hi Shefu,

I don't have the A2000 but when you are trying to save the style, are you using 'Copy' first? The 'Save' option will be greyed out until you have 'copied' a file. If it is still greyed out after copying the file, it may be that the folder or drive that you are currently in won't allow saves. Try saving to USB first. With a USB stick in the instrument, tab to 'USB1' at the top of the file selection display and see if the 'Save' icon is now lit.  If this is the case then you should be able to copy and save the styles to USB or possibly even to the 'User' drive containing the expansion pack although you would need to select a folder other than 'Expansion' on the user drive. You might be better creating an new folder on this drive to save to.   I can't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to modify the style using the Style Creator but of course it would not be worth the effort if you really can't save the results.

Just one thing - you say that you would like to put a selection of styles from different expansion packs onto a USB stick.  I suspect that whilst this is possible, if a style uses one or more voices from the expansion pack (as you might expect it to), and these voices use wave data (samples) from the expansion pack, the style will not sound as expected if the expansion pack containing the wave data is not loaded at the time, and since you can't have more than one pack loaded at at time, I don't see how you can achieve what you want.

The following is an extract from page 40 of the owners manual.

"Song, Style or Registration Memory containing Expansion
Voices or Styles
Song, Style or Registration Memory containing any Expansion Voices or
Styles will not sound properly or cannot be called up, if the Expansion Pack
data does not exist in the instrument.
We recommend that you record the name of the Expansion Pack when you
create the data (Song, Style or Registration Memory) using Expansion
Voices or Styles, so that you can easily find and install the Expansion Pack
when necessary."


I hope that this helps.

Regards

Ian
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Shefu
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 04:17:47 PM »

I am going to give an acute description of what I am seeing on my keyboard, step by step:

1)The Expansion Pack is installed in the keyboard. (Under the User bank)

2) I picked a random style from under the User/Expansion tab

3) There is no Copy or Save available, they are both greyed out. Furthermore, in the upper right corner where you have the options: Preset/User there is no 3rd USB option even though I do have a USB stick inserted.

I don't know if this is done to prevent people from copying and reselling Yamaha styles and whatnot from their store, but it's frustrating nonetheless.

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Joe H
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 05:12:54 PM »

Shefu,

Just to verify what some of us suspect (that the Expansion Pack Styles cannot be copied)

What is different if you select a Preset Style?  When I select a preset style on my PSR S910, I get a Copy option. If I select a style from my USB stick, I get a Cut, Copy, Save, and Delete options.

If you see these same options on the A2000 for preset styles, then I think it is confirmed that Yamaha has made some change with the Style Expansion Packs for the S650 and A2000. 

My observations of the S910 operating system going through a lot of trial and error to see how I can use the keyboard with other instruments in a MIDI studio, I've come to understand that do to the complexity of the Arranger keyboards, Yamaha has gone to great lengths to make sure the operation of the keyboard does not get corrupted by we the user/player. The result is they make a great stand-a-lone keyboard, but it is not so easy to integrate the board into a multi-instrument MIDI setup.

I think as already stated, because the Expansion Styles require Expansion Voices, they are treated differently than the preset styles. There are apparently Mega drum kits included with the S650 and A2000. This is something new. There may be other new MIDI implementation with the Expansion Styles yet to be learned about by our programmer members of this forum.

Joe H



« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 09:21:17 PM by Joe H » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 05:37:18 PM »

When I select a Preset Style I have the "Copy" option, and when I select a User style from USB I get Copy, Cut, and Save.

I guess is as I and all of you suspected, Expansion Styles can not be modified. sigh. Yamaha Sucks. lol
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 06:07:56 PM »

Hi Shefu,

I've had another look at the manual and sure enough, in the section 'File Management' starting on page 27 are various side-notes relating to the contents of the Expansion folder in the User drive.  Here are some of them - the first one is likely to be the most significant for you.

NOTE
Files in the Expansion folder in the
USER tab cannot be copied or moved.

NOTE
Files in the PRESET tab or in the
Expansion folder in the USER tab cannot
be deleted.

NOTE
Files in the PRESET tab or in the
Expansion folder in the USER tab cannot
be renamed.


I think that you are right about Yamaha using this method to protect their intellectual property rights. They are very protective - on the Tyros 4 you have to obtain an instrument license to which any expansion packs are linked. This prevents the pack from being installed on any other instrument, even one that you own or might upgrade to in the future!  It's a bit of a cheek - it's the equivalent of buying a CD and only being allowed/able to play it on one specific player!  Having said that, at least I can tweak and copy the voices and styles in the T4 expansion packs so I can't see why you shouldn't be allowed to this on the A2000.

It doesn't look hopeful but it's worth checking with Yamaha's customer services just in case there is anything that you  can do.

Sorry I can't be of more help    (I've just seen your latest post - you are not alone in your sentiments!)

Regards

Ian
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Shefu
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 07:12:26 PM »

I just wrote to their Customer Services both to Yamaha U.S. and to the yamahamusicsoft.com site (their store).

Hopefully I'll get more than a "Sorry, but the feature will never be available" etc

Thanks for your input guys!
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 09:29:40 PM »

It may be a matter of copy protection, but it is more likely to be about compatibility. Because the Expansion Pack styles are "ethnic" styles with unique "ethnic" voices, these styles and voices are proprietary to the S650 and A2000, and will not play on other model keyboards.

I don't know if that makes sense to some folks, but to Yamaha's credit, they just might have some genius who designs these complicated boards.

Joe H
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 05:51:45 PM »

I got a reply today from Yamaha Support which more or less stated that: The loaded expansion styles are not editable as you found out. this is the nature of the keyboard because of the embeded expansion voice set the styles use. It is not in an editable location like the preset voices. Sorry for the inconvenience.

After more tinkering this is what I found out myself. Voices from any Expansion Pack can be in fact edited and saved as a user voice on a USB memory stick. As to the above argument, that's all fine and dandy except for the fact that by making the styles editable at least the USER had the choice of changing all of the voices in the Style and associated OTS to Preset Voices. Choice being the key word here.

Anyways, I couldn't contain myself and I gave the support person a piece of my mind which he can forward to whoever makes these decisions at Yamaha.


Cheers,
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 11:16:40 PM »

Shefu,

Your not alone in your sentiments, many of us have gone around and around with Yamaha support. I had a couple issues recently with a lot of back and forth emails, then the tech called me and we spent 20 to 30 minutes on the phone. I don't think their job is easy. They respond to 25 or more calls and emails a day and sometimes they address complicated issues where they have to go to the instrument in question and duplicate the "problem" before they can respond. I don't think I would want the job.

But thanks for the updates. I think you are one of a few A2000 owners on the forum. Most of us are just learning about this new keyboard.  The A2000 may be just the beginning of what is to come for the next generation of arranger keyboards.

Cheers,
Joe H
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2012, 04:56:45 AM »

Hi Shefu,

Just one final thought on copying the styles.  Have you tried using the Style Assembly function within Style Creator?  Select one of the expansion styles as if you were going to play it, then go into Style Assembly and see what happens. If you can get into the function with one of these styles you might be able to save it (with a new name of course). You might have to make a rudimentary change to the style to convince the system that there are changes to be saved. If it works, you might then be able to edit, save and copy the 'assembled' style just like the presets and user ones.   It's a long shot but probably worth a try if you are intent on tweaking them.

Regards

Ian
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2012, 06:24:59 AM »

I agree with Ian on this issue because often with these arrangers, the Save button
stays greyed out unless there is something changed to save.

But, keep in mind this new keyboard is sold in the range of Yamaha keyboards having
very limited capabilities compared to the more expensive models and that is part of the deal.

Yesterday we saw some blackouts on the internet over a new proposed law to protect the
property rights of movie and music companies - so this is Yamaha's method of protecting
their property rights and it works for them. We are just going to have to get used to the
fact everything is not free anymore. And, the old ways of one of us purchasing an item
and then sharing it freely with all we meet on the internet never was fair to the creators
of these properties.

Bill G

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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2012, 12:21:07 PM »

Hi

Go ahead extracting styles: http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/yep/index.htm

Enjoy!
Jørgen
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ivtec
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« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2012, 03:07:35 PM »

Hi

Go ahead extracting styles: http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/yep/index.htm

Enjoy!
Jørgen

I understand now  Jorgen why i could not open Music Viewer cause! (This software program is Donation Ware.)so one has to pay something ,
why did you not say it up front instead of making me go round and round with the software and making feel like a dumd,
i don´t need it anymore but i had to say it

Sorry for Highjacking  this thread
 
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« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2012, 04:54:24 PM »

ivtec,

I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to when you say "Music Viewer", but I downloaded the Style In Yep software. There is no charge to use it, but I have gladly made a couple of donations to Jorgen's website (as I have to the PSR Tutorial website for the following reason... Jorgen, like Joe Walters, maintains a website at his own expense, and furthermore has written LOTS of software programs that you and I can download and use for FREE!

I used his Style in Yep program to extract 193 styles from the free Yamaha Expansion Packs (YEP).  What a bargain! Yamaha charges $6.50 USD to $8.50 USD per style on the Musicsoft website.

I hope that everyone who benefits from the generosity of people like Joe Walters and Jorgen Jorensen (as well as Michael Bedesem and a few others) at some point in time understands that it is important that they too contribute to this forum in some manner shape or form, whether it is a donation or by assisting other members of the forum (this helps the moderators and PSR Professors as well). We all can offer suggestions and help other members with their problems, but it requires that we give some time and effort on our part.

Life is a two way street!

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 05:04:46 PM by Joe H » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2012, 11:05:30 PM »

Hi

I understand now  Jorgen why i could not open Music Viewer cause! (This software program is Donation Ware.)so one has to pay something ,
why did you not say it up front instead of making me go round and round with the software and making feel like a dumd,
i don´t need it anymore but i had to say it

Sorry for Highjacking  this thread
 

I dont understand your comment. Not at all.
All my software programs are FREE... Donation is voluntary..., NOT required...

Have a nice day...
Jørgen

PS:
As you now apparently dont need my software program; I guess there is no need to help you...
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minggxiao
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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2012, 06:54:33 AM »

I understand now  Jorgen why i could not open Music Viewer cause! (This software program is Donation Ware.)so one has to pay something ,
why did you not say it up front instead of making me go round and round with the software and making feel like a dumd,
i don´t need it anymore but i had to say it

Sorry for Highjacking  this thread
 

Make sure your system supports  JAVA and .NET  ,then you can run the software wich from Mr Jorgen 's free share !
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2012, 07:02:36 AM »

Hi

... and I have two "Technical Problems" pages:

For .Net based software programs at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/software_4.htm
For Java based software programs at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/software_5.htm

If this not helps you, you are welcome to mail me... just remember to give me some details about your problem...
Mail form and more information at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/brev.htm 

Best wishes
Jørgen
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minggxiao
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« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2012, 07:10:52 AM »

Hi

... and I have two "Technical Problems" pages:

For .Net based software programs at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/software_4.htm
For Java based software programs at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/software_5.htm

If this not helps you, you are welcome to mail me... just remember to give me some details about your problem...
Mail form and more information at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/brev.htm 

Best wishes
Jørgen


HI  Mr Jorgen:

You are so Great and bring  the Yamaha psr'fans  Gospel!


Regards
Minggxiao
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« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2012, 11:56:48 PM »

Hi Minggxiao

Thanks.
I am flattered...

Jørgen
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Shefu
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« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2012, 09:17:31 AM »

Jorgen, you are my hero, thank you so much!
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« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2012, 10:57:21 AM »

Hi

You're welcome!

Jørgen
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« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2012, 11:22:37 AM »

I understand now  Jorgen why i could not open Music Viewer cause! (This software program is Donation Ware.)so one has to pay something ,
why did you not say it up front instead of making me go round and round with the software and making feel like a dumd,
i don´t need it anymore but i had to say it
Sorry for Highjacking  this thread

Ivtec,

Hopefully you feel better getting this off your chest, and I hope it was worth it. You're certainly risking not making yourself popular around here.

Jorgen has made fantastic contributions to this forum, and his software is top notch. He's always willing to help whenever he can. If you feel like a "dumd", it's not Jorgen's fault.

Regards,
Fred.
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Joe H
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« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2012, 11:36:41 AM »

Shefu,

I'm wondering if you saw the recent thread on YEP styles. I believe you were interested in trying to extract or edit the YEP styles for your A2000.

Here's the link to that thread.    http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=17713.0

Regards,
Joe H
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iulistil2
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« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2013, 12:13:51 PM »

Hello!

  Are IULIK country Romania.

Let us desire to stuffing us what sounds in the YAMAHA PSR-2000 that sounds packs are not all success for my country, some are downright poor and very poorly thought out! Give us a program or a way to put new sounds that we want for nothing Otherwise I bought this tool!

I want to report a serious problem in the YAMAHA PSR-2000! sounds used in my country are not properly made​​! ie: sounds of Cimbalom not sound right and have too much sustain!
In order to sell well this intrument propose to rivizuiasca a new OS containing VOICE CREATOR and the possibility to import samplers us and can create new drums sets or you will lose sales market in my country in favor of KORG PA600 which has more features and is much cheaper price! Otherwise nothing has 64 mega memory if we can not we want to introduce sounds similar to the Tyros 4!

This is me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrEVUAuEoT8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWeZ1rs-O8w

Thanks for your attention!
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« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2013, 07:20:37 AM »

Hi,

I found this expansion pack Balkan (East Europe) interesting to me. But this is only for s650 and A2000. I have s910. Can I buy this expansion pack and use Jørgen's program "Style In YEP Files" to make it suitable to my keyboard?
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« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2013, 07:33:11 AM »

Madiciv,

Welcome to the forum.  Cool

You would be wasting your money by purchasing any of the YEP programs because
the only thing you can extract from those programs are the styles and they are already
available for free and those styles need reworking because your keyboard does not
have any of the voices used by those styles.

Bill G
 
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« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2013, 07:58:14 AM »

Madiciv,

You can get the extracted YEP styles here:  http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=17713.0

Many if not most of them will play very well on your PSR S910. The styles use many of the S910 Voices. For some styles you will have to assign a drum kit. These are usually the Latin, Cuban or one of the Arabic kits.  For regular Voices you may have to go into the GM/XG folder and use an "Ethnic" Voice for some of the style parts, but Panel Voice will usually work very well too.

There are a lot of very nice styles in these expansion packs.

Regards,
Joe H
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