My current EQ and compressor settings for T4

[Scott Langholff]

I think the EQ and compressor settings are quite personal depending what sound the player likes, what kind of speaker system is being used, the type of music being played and the acoustics of each room.

I use JBL Eon G2's. At first I didn't like the sound as compared to my T2 at loud volume. I did discover the same EQ settings on the T2 and T4 with no compression are identical in sound using the same style and ots. I've come to the conclusion that the sound is just different the way the styles and ots are set. There is some getting used to. I asked for suggestions on several forums. I tried them all. Everything from go flat, to just raise the bass to start at flat and just lower volumes and I'll get less noise, no compression, etc. I appreciate all the responses very much, but what I have ended up with currently is my former EQ that I've used probably since the T1.

My EQ settings are, first set it to flat, then
EQ1 +5
EQ2 +4
EQ3 +2
EQ4 +6
EQ5 +10

I tested these setting with all the EQ preset types, flat, TRS-MS04, SP Stage, etc. These will make a big difference. I found that starting from the Flat type setting is by far the best for me.

The compressor has different controls than the T2, I am currently using the following settings:

I used the Basic type as my starting point, then Threshold Offset -13, Ratio Offset +3 and Gain Offset +3.

This is giving me a pretty good sound. I'm at least in the ballpark with what I'm looking for. I will probably continue to test out other compression but may end up leaving it as it is.

I wish Yamaha had more info and explanation for this.

As it is for the compressor, I used some tips that came from Steve Demming of Yamaha US as follows.

These come from the psrtutorial faq page:

F.89. How to select Tyros 3 compressor settings.
The T3 gives you a choice of compressor types, e.g. Basic, TRS, Live , etc. Each of these choices sets some parameters internally. The controls allow you to modify the Threshold, Ratio and Gain over a +- range from the undisclosed settings that are built in.



1. You must be sure to turn the CMP switch "on" using button G.

2. Set you Master Volume to a comfortable listening level, select any style you like, and then start it playing.

3. After that, you must then go in to the controls on the bottom of the screen.

4. Start with the "Threshold Offset" control and try -10 first. You should then begin to see the top meter called "Gain Reduction" beginning to show a little green bar appearing at the right of the meter screen. If you do not see the little green bar appearing, there is no compressor effect and you should then try Threshold Offset -20.

5. If the green meter bar is appearing on the left, then adjust Ratio Offset to +3 or +4 , whatever it takes for the softest sounds of the style to become more pronounced, louder and easier to hear. Once you achieve than, go to step 6.

6. Use the Gain Offset control and turn it up or down to assure the overall volume of the keyboard is maintained at that comfortable listening level you selected in step 2. The keyboard should not sound a lot louder. Of course, if you dial up the Gain Offset, this functions as another volume control, making the whole thing sound louder.

Steve Demming


If I come up with anything better I will post it and I'm hoping others will do the same.

Scott

[Scott Langholff]

I tend to like a hot sound and so far set the EQ in the smile position and have added some compressor.  To me I like it, BUT, this much I learned from a local sound man.  He has used a younger female to help him test EQ.  Why?  First men hear better lower, women hear the highs better.  As we get older and especially if we've played in loud bands, haha, we don't hear as well in the upper frequencies.  So, if it sounds good to us, ahem, slightly older guys, it may be too harsh for the ladies. So, he said if he has no female to help him set EQ, he set's it the way it sounds good to him and then he backs down the highs a bit.

As I tweak my T4 I am asking the ladies in the audience their opinions:)

[mark styles]

Yes, a subtle 'smile' shape is pleasing.  Also be aware of sound system EQ's if they are available. Be aware of subtle distortion, with extreme settings.
As we age, we do lose some high end especially if we've played in bands all our lives.

 If you are performing at a senior center, you may want to put a little more 'crispness' in.  When recording, especially if you're going to make CD's  don't be so extreme, as the sound will change drastically from sound system to sound system.

Wasn't aware that women have better recognition in hi range then men. Perhaps some of the ladies here, could 'chime' in. 

[rb]

Well Scott,  I give up..... I don't think I can get a piano sound I like with the T4..... I guess I am sorry I purchased it.... I had a Fantom X8 with a Piano Expansion card along with a Motif Rack Es with a piano expansion card and a Gem RPX piano module all hooked together and a layer of 7 piano voices... My PSR S900 was pretty good with the studio channel and the sonic maximizer but does not help the tyros... I was looking for a change thinking the Tyros was it.... I am feeling down now after wanting the Tyros for over a year and having to sell everything to get it and now a big disappointment.... Live and learn I guess..... I am going to see if the store will take it back and trade for something else.... I also transpose many of my songs I sing from +3 to -9 which is a spread and the t4 does not sound good going down that low..... Awful muddy sounding even with adjustments..... Thanks to everybody for trying to help... I guess I might sell it if the store won't take it back..... Keep Playing......Ron

[Scott Langholff]

Hi

I guess you're the same one that I talked with on SZ messages?  I think I would hold off on selling that keyboard.  That piano is quite nice.  I am thinking you are overprocessing things.  Did you see my second message to you on SZ?  I think if you like those other gizmos for your voice you could plug your mic into them and then into the mic input of the T4.  That way you get the vocal sound you like and you''re not overprocessing the T4, which I think is actually the problem.  In any case, others may have some suggestions for you

I can tell you I played a dance tonight and was told that I sounded extra good and whatever I'm doing to not change a thing.  It was the first time most of them had heard me on the T4 rather than the T2.  So, if you're not happy about something, I'm thinking it is a matter of adjustment.

The other thing is if you do have the whole keyboard sounding to your liking and you don't like the piano, then you can go in and edit the sound.  There is no better sounding arranger out there for voices, even those that are fanatics for other brands are saying this.  Anyway, hang in there

[Keyboardist]

Its funny how we get used to things and compare.
Not to many people dislike the Tyros 4 as it can do so many things and has so many adjustments.
Rb perhaps you are soo used to the way your other stuff was setup; you want the exact same things duplicated.
You really need to give that Tyros 4 a chance as there are so many things you can adjust -Threshold gain offset,compression etc
The Tyros 4 is in a different ballpark then the 900 but you can tweak the 900 with good results.
Maybe its a matter of personal taste as most like the piano on the Ty 4.
Anyway try a motif XF6 or 8 in the store and see if you like that of course you want have the abilty to do what a Tyros 4 can also do as
as an arranger.
Not too many things arranger wise currently that can match a Ty 4 when setup right.  

Craig "Keyboardist"  

[jwyvern]

Hi rb,
I'd echo Scott's thoughts about keeping the Ty4, and not getting rid for the sake of the pianos. If you're not happy with them then editing is the key to improving them, (assuming you have most other voices sounding OK) although it's all very well 3rd parties like me saying "that's all there is to it" to most who may not have much editing experience of what might be required.

So you could try loading the voice files I've loaded here and seeing if they make a difference on your Ty4.
They are modified SA concert grand and the Live Grand. The latter is my favourite as being closest to a real piano in that it's sound readily seems to envelope you, whereas by comparison the Concert Grand is a different character always a struggle trying to get the bigger, longer sounds as if it's being played in a strait jacket.
Neither at least sound muddy on my Ty4 even using simple flat master EQ and with Compressor off although I find for all voices it helps:

1. to have Compressor on a touch (for all voices) - say Basic with Gain offset at +2.

2. to augment the flat EQ ( for a little more brightness) with EQ4 at +1 and EQ5 at +3

I have no problem getting sufficient amplification for home use out of my Logitech Z5500 system so don't use designer EQ levels to provide that.
Although people using the Yamaha standard MS04 speakers often use the Total Gain Adjust to set all master EQ's up say a further 4 to provide extra oomph/presence for their purposes.

Hope you find the piano files helpful.

John    

[Bill Grosse]

Ron,

I suspect your problem with the piano is due to the type sustain used by the arranger keyboards.
It is all or nothing.
The modules you had both have half pedaling and this is a significant feature for the piano.
This is especially important for most jazz playing and if that is your style, the Tyros piano will never satisfy you.

Sorry about this and I can not understand why Yamaha does not add this to the Tyros at least.
You might try turning on the Sustain button up there at the top right side of your T4.

Bill G

[rb]

John...thanks for the piano voices.... I did try them and they do sound better than any I came up with..... A lot closer to what I am looking for..... So thanks for that.... I am still working on getting a sound I like.... Problem now is the vocal harmonizer..... Seems like now I am having a problem with this.... I am not a total idiot but this machine is making me feel this way.... After all the equipment I have had and used this seems to be giving me a difficult time...Maybe I am just getting old/older...... I try to keep up with all the latest greatest stuff but I am sure frustrated with the T4 sounds.... It shouldn't be this hard to get a decent sound..... Any file you have for harmony and vocal would be great...Thanks again.... I would love to get it working to my satisfaction and not take it back to the store.... It's 2 hours one way and I don't know what I would want other than a PSR 910.... Maybe also a CP300....not sure.....thanks Ron

[Joe W]

John, I tried out your piano voices for the T4 and they are, indeed, very nice.  Thanks for uploading them to the forum.  Feel free to upload other voices you may have tuned!

[jwyvern]

Ron,
I'm sorry I don't do anything with Vocal Harmony so am unable to give any guidance or files there.
Meanwhile there is another piano that may be worthwhile trying since it gives a different character again which has another chance perhaps of fitting in with your style.
It's the grand in the GMXG section edited in a somewhat similar way to the Live grand you already have.
Hopefully  attached to this post.

John

[jwyvern]

Joe, thanks for the feedback on the files,

The pianos are usually the voices that get a lot of (editing) attention when a new KB comes out because any pianists among the arranger owners expect more "presence" than is often provided out of the box.

I don't have a lot of "tuned" voice files in a simple form since I concentrate on tweaking registrations or OTS's in situ to get the ensemble sounds "just right" (at least to my judgement   )  in say BigBand or String sounds.  

If you like the way a particular edit boosts or modifies a specific voice, say the GMXG piano in this case, it is possible to apply that edit easily to any other voices and see how they would sound with those edits by "freezing Voice Set".
As an example load my edited GMXG piano file into R1 so all the edits are loaded.
Then push Direct Access followed by the R1 Part Select button and in the Voice Set configuration window that appears turn off all 4 boxes at the bottom.
Now you can go through loading into R1 whatever voices you might be interested in and listen to the effects of the edits on them. (Load the voices into R1 directly from the preset voice banks, not from Regs or OTS's or this won't work).
 
ConcertGuitar for example, often complained of for low volume, now has a strong character.
Try other guitars eg. SemiAcoustic  etc., Trumpets, such as TrumpetFall, Trombone, BrightTrombone...........
and other voice categories and compare versus the non edited voices.

Don't forget to reset the 4 boxes to On in the Voice Set configuration screen before quitting!  

John  

[rcca]

Thanks guys for the piano voices, I love them.
    Ron C

[rb]

Hey John.... I tried the 3rd piano voice you sent out.... It is a bit thin compared to the other two.... I will keep it in my file tho.... I always use more than one piano voice so it really is trying combinations of many... Getting just that one combo that works for you... I also hooked up my Gem RPX Piano module... This also gives it much more depth and bass..... It really makes it shine along with the two voices you sent me..... I can't thank you enough for your time along with everyone else who has helped me....  I am trying now to get the vocal working that I find now is difficult.... It makes my mike hiss thru the speakers when it is activated(start to sing or just tap on the mike) and it is very noticeable.... I am using a Shure Beta 87 condenser..... I am not sure why this is...... I will keep working on it...... I wish Yamaha would give you a few sample setups with the Tyros right out of the box so you don't have to go through all this...... I think I am going to keep the Tyros thanks to everyone's help.....Ron

[jwyvern]

Hi Ron,
Yes the GMXG piano is lighter, which comes through in the editing.
If you want to use the method I described above to Joe you could try applying the edits to other pianos in the preset group some time just to check them out.  WarmGrand, BrightPiano, even OctavePianos etc.   

It's good you're starting to get there

And RonC, thanks for commenting

John