PSR Tutorial Forum
Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: Pianoman on April 01, 2018, 10:05:30 PM
-
Hello Everyone.
I'll be doing my third Genos test in a couple of hours from now, at a friend's house.
My previous 2 tests showed a slight improvement in sound over the Tyros line.
Not by much though, as I considered the improvement to be more incremental,
rather than substantial.
In the meantime, below are 2 links showing what can be done with a T3.
I will try to reproduce these same 2 songs on the Genos, for the purpose of
voice, style, and drum comparison, and try to post them here later.
It may be interesting too, to hear a Genos owner play something similar,
since He/She would be more familiar with the EQ and compressor settings,
again, just for comparison.
Both songs below are simple "sit and play" performances, played live
straight into the T3's recorder.
https://app.box.com/s/rdgph7010u4djxe6pajpltritj6w0gen
https://app.box.com/s/bp2drgzpfwonz834jif4e6zinpizi5k5
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
Hi Abby ,
Thank you very much for that interesting demonstration and I would like to hear your opinion
which recording is the better one ....cause I cannot say :o
Ideal would be the same song / sound recorded as a midi and the same midi
recorded 1. with the Tyros and 2. with the Genos ;)
Please don't get me wrong I really do not want to tell you what to do !!! Its just an idea Abby
Cheers
Udo
-
Hello Udo.
I like the idea, but to be honest, I wouldn't know how to record a midi.
Having never used Midi, I am not familiar with it's workings.
I will probably just record another WAV version, convert it to Mp3, and
post it.
Still, I'm probably not too old to learn.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
Hi Abby,
the songs you have chosen are ideal for comparison.
My music dealer (and friend) tries to convince me for weeks and wants me to
Trade my Tyros 3 or the T5 in for a Genos.
I really cannot see the sense of it but I will follow your threads ;) ;)
Cheers
Udo
-
If u use the Genos only as a Midi player , than it isnt worth to upgrade .
and if you cant hear the difference between a T3 and a Genos general you need to go to a hearing specialist .
Soneg ;)
-
Great playing, Abby!
I think both songs are about the same quality. I would love to hear what you could do with a fully loaded DAW! Now down to business.
There is no comparison in the T3 to a Genos - especially from effects, percussion, and general sound processing points of view. Two things to remember when you audition the Genos:
1- What speakers are you using? A T3 will sound about the same as a Genos when played through cheap dime-store speakers.
2- Even a Genos is delivered with Yamaha's basic EQ and Compression settings, which can make it appear as though it sounds not much better than a T3. Play with those settings and really see what you can do with the sound. It will blow you away.
There you go...and I agree, get those ears checked out (LOL)...like I'm one to talk. I'm about due myself, after 30 years on stage with guitarists who don't have a clue what a volume control is used for.
-
Recording Midi is easy. Just press the REC button of the left of the Tyros 3 and play. Press stop when finished and there you are. Press Button A and then name and save song to USB.
-
Abby, the only true comparison would be for you to record those same, two, outstanding performances on the Genos. Then the side by side comparison would be easy to make.
Keep in your you are an incredibly talented player, and I seriously doubt that unless the difference between the T3 and Genos was not a major difference, no one would notice and you would just be wasting your money. But, if you get a big WOW FACTOR from your audiences and the folks that hire you, then it would be money well spent, especially if it increased your income by a significant degree. The main reason I kept my PSR-3000s for so many years is that when I did A/B comparisons between the 3000 and some of the newer models, no one noticed. My wife was the biggest critic when it came to new keyboards, and when she said Wow about the S-950, that when I upgraded. The audiences responded in kind.
Good luck, my friend,
Gary 8)
-
I have found each model T3 - 5, and Genos to be an incremental improvement in a number of areas.. The increases are not huge, but they do add up..
I like the Genos has more Mega-voices, I would love to see a mod, perhaps one of the sliders, that would make it easy to move between the velocity plateaus, so one could hand play the mega voices. I think it would be an easy piece of code, and lend more usefulness to this great instrument.
I have a huge number of Kontakt libraries, but I find the Tyroses and now the Genos have so much more 'liveliness' and vitality to them to almost any library. They really can bring a piece to life.
-
"Abby, the only true comparison would be for you to record those same, two, outstanding performances on the Genos. Then the side by side comparison would be easy to make. "
That is exactly what he said he would do. Both the posted songs were done on the T3, or at least that's the way I understood it.
-
Hello Everyone.
BOTH of the above songs were recorded on my T3, none on a Genos.
I thought I had explained it well in my first post.
I went to my friend's house of with the intention of playing these same songs,
but this time on a Genos.
The EQ settings on my friend's Genos were crap, and so were the compressor
settings.
I spent a major part of the afternoon grappling with the EQ settings and trying to choose
appropriate voices for my comparison.
I think i managed to obtain decent settings for both EQ and Compression.
My friend has some state of the art sound system, but I took my trusty headphones
with me. Because that's how I recorded on my T3, and I like their sound.
My first recording attempt ended with distortion, as well as the second one.
I reduced the global volume but still got the same result.
I think it was probably from the Bass and Drums being too loud.
I just couldn't get a decent recording.
Between my tapping on the Genos, and my friend trying to impress me
with his Montage through his sound system, it was like a Zoo,
and my friend's wife finally had enough around 8 PM local time here.
Not wanting to push my luck or not be welcome anymore, I bade farewell and left,
without a quality recording.
We did save the work in the Genos registrations, so that I won't have to
start from scratch again next time.
I have four important gigs this coming week, and won't be able to repeat
the testing and recording until next Sunday.
Hopefully everything will come together as desired then.
I'll keep you updated.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
Hi Everyone, I had the privilege of hearing an excellent Genos demo by Manuel Dorantes, Rep for Yamaha. I'm still "on hold" about getting a Genos because later I tried one at the music store (only with headphones) & it didn't sound good at all! I went back to the store a few days later & no one even offered to hook up a speaker, so I left very disappointed. :( Now I'm reading about EQ settings. Should I use my PSR S910 settings on the Genos & try it again? Any advice would be appreciated.
-
This make me wonder if I'm extremely lucky with the one I did find in the box, or if the ones Abby and Gloria tested has been 'fiddled' around with and way out off the factory settings and also if they are updated to v1.20.
Anyway, our ears don't always hear the same, just as our eyes see things different. I have two sets of headphones that give me slightly differend soundpictures, but not as different that I would call the sound coming from G crap. :o
To me, as a well known former anti Yamaha 'cold CD'ish sound', G is the best sounding arranger from Yamaha 'till date, but that's very personal. My G is going to stay until something new knock it down. 8)
If happy with what allready have and it does what you want it to, just keep it as it is. A kind of 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' ;)
-
Quoting Gunnar Johnny - "this make me wonder if I'm extremely lucky with the one I did find in the box, or if the ones Abby and Gloria tested has been 'fiddled' around with and way out off the factory settings and also if they are updated to v1.20."
Gunnar Johnny - I never thought about that & it could really make a difference! Appreciate you mentioning it!
-
Hi Gloria,
Just listening to Genos with its factory settings should sound good. I have left my compressor on 28,65,70 and my EQ is on Loudness at the moment. I am happy with the sound I get and I only use the Genos speakers. Make sure you use good quality head phones although I always prefer to here a keyboard live when trying it.
-
Hello Everyone.
The crappy settings that I referred to, were the changes and fiddling that my
friend made to his Genos.
There is also a Genos now in our local music store, set up as a demo,
for anyone to have a go and fiddle around with.
It's plugged in to a solitary Peavey speaker, thus only giving a mono sound.
That's why I always take my Sennheiser Headphones with me wherever I go.
Testing at the music store is tolerable for up to an hour at best,
though I did manage around 90 minutes a few days back.
Without a stool or chair in sight, one can only test while standing,
And with people hustling and bustling around and brushing past, it's not really
conducive to peaceful concentration.
That is why I chose to go to my friend's house.
He owns a Genos that he brought from Switzerland.
He has a proper kind of studio setup in a corner of his living room
where one can sit and peacefully explore the Genos.
Till his wife says time's up.
I will only buy a keyboard after being fully satisfied that it meets my
expectations, and that it will deliver what I have in mind.
I plan to borrow the Genos for a full weekend, to test it in my home.
I believe that would be possible, once the store owner returns from his
Easter vacation.
If I feel that it meets my requirements, I'll buy it.
The selling price is now 3400€ (2983£)which I think is fair, and should
have been so right from the beginning.
Updates will follow.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
I like the idea, but to be honest, I wouldn't know how to record a midi.
Having never used Midi, I am not familiar with it's workings.
Best Regards.
Abby.
Very impressive songs using your Tyros 3. By the way Midi is basically data instructions that tells the keyboard what note(s) to play. When you play the Genos or in your case the Tyros 3 you are actually triggering midi in conjunction with the wav rom (audio) samples of the keyboard. As Eileen demonstrated it is easy to record midi on the Genos and the Tyros 3. Of course if you'd rather record as audio and save it as a .wav file that is your choice. As a demonstration here is a song using a midi file and an audio vocal track. The song is called Superstition by Stevie Wonder. Stevie Wonder is singing the vocal part but all the musical sounds are from the Genos.
Superstition Remix by Stevie Wonder & Yamaha Genos (https://app.box.com/s/1g0de7dzow8p6y2tlnqcfjovjnknhy35)
PS:Some of the instruments I used are S.Art PopHornsBright for the Brass and the VintageMutedKit Revo Drum kit. This song is simply for demonstration purposes only. In order to demonstrate ways of using midi with the Genos. Since this is a rather large .wav file it might take a while to load on the Box website.
Mike
-
Gloria
The PSR S910 is still a cracking keyboard, it has a mellow sweet sound.
I have all the PSRs from the 3000 to S970, I’m always back on the 910 for some reason
I gig with it on a regular basis and people are amazed at what they hear,
The styles editing, style voices, balance and midi recording windows is exactly the same on all models right up to the Genos, I was reading the Genos Manual over the weekend, most editing functions are identical to the S910, nothing much has changed,
The sound has got to be better on the Genos, but how much better,?
I wanted to buy a Korg PA4X, I went to the music store on 3 different occasions, the last time I went there I had the money in my pocket, there was something about the styles that did not work with the music I play, so I left it, glad that I did, maybe I’ll go for a Genos sometime in the future, but, at the moment I have everything that I need to make nice music 🎶
Good luck,
Pino
-
Pianoman has been in the business as long as I have.
He knows everything about midi, no problem there. :)
Did you look at Ketron SD-9.
Big in Spain
-
Abby, that's about the price of the Genos from the start in the U.S., if you know who to call! :)
-
Pianoman Abby,
I hope you get a significant amount of time with Genos.
The first few days I had Genos I thought I was going to send it back. I didn’t like the keybed or so I thought. I wasn’t sure I liked the OS and other things...etc. In short, all I could see were the negatives...which actually turned out to be new operator error for the most part.
But after I had Genos for a week, and could really get to appreciate what it could do, that’s when I knew it was a keeper.
A keyboard like Genos requires time to appreciate.
-
Hello Everyone.
BOTH of the above songs were recorded on my T3, none on a Genos.
I thought I had explained it well in my first post.
I went to my friend's house of with the intention of playing these same songs,
but this time on a Genos.
The EQ settings on my friend's Genos were crap, and so were the compressor
settings.
I spent a major part of the afternoon grappling with the EQ settings and trying to choose
appropriate voices for my comparison.
I think i managed to obtain decent settings for both EQ and Compression.
My friend has some state of the art sound system, but I took my trusty headphones
with me. Because that's how I recorded on my T3, and I like their sound.
My first recording attempt ended with distortion, as well as the second one.
I reduced the global volume but still got the same result.
I think it was probably from the Bass and Drums being too loud.
I just couldn't get a decent recording.
Between my tapping on the Genos, and my friend trying to impress me
with his Montage through his sound system, it was like a Zoo,
and my friend's wife finally had enough around 8 PM local time here.
Not wanting to push my luck or not be welcome anymore, I bade farewell and left,
without a quality recording.
We did save the work in the Genos registrations, so that I won't have to
start from scratch again next time.
I have four important gigs this coming week, and won't be able to repeat
the testing and recording until next Sunday.
Hopefully everything will come together as desired then.
I'll keep you updated.
Best Regards.
Abby.
hey Abby what was the settings
-
As a demonstration here is a song using a midi file and an audio vocal track. The song is called Superstition by Stevie Wonder. Stevie Wonder is singing the vocal part but all the musical sounds are from the Genos.
Superstition Remix by Stevie Wonder & Yamaha Genos (https://app.box.com/s/1g0de7dzow8p6y2tlnqcfjovjnknhy35)
PS:Some of the instruments I used are S.Art PopHornsBright for the Brass and the VintageMutedKit Revo Drum kit. This song is simply for demonstration purposes only. In order to demonstrate ways of using midi with the Genos. Since this is a rather large .wav file it might take a while to load on the Box website.
Mike
Very impressive.
How did you manage to add the singing of Stevie Wonder to the Genos tracks?
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
Hi Abby,
You can find vocal parts on YouTube, like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7W0oVCyF5c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7W0oVCyF5c)
Here is a link to the mp3 file of this video clip: https://www.dropbox.com/s/k0btbz8e9zhph83/Stevie%20Wonder%20-%20Superstition%20%28Only%20Vocals%29.mp3?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/k0btbz8e9zhph83/Stevie%20Wonder%20-%20Superstition%20%28Only%20Vocals%29.mp3?dl=0)
Stijn
-
hey Abby what was the settings
Hello Tyrosman.
I assume that you are referring to the EQ and compressor settings.
I found the Genos EQ settings to be a bit more complicated than on my T3,
because of their wider Bandwidth.
As a starting point, I used these EQ and compressor settings posted by StephenM,
to whom I'm thankful. They are very good actually.
I made a few adjustments to them, not because they're not good, but in order to adjust
them to my headphones.
I started with the master volume at maximum, and slowly lowered it to about a 100 or so.
I always like a powerful Bass and Drums in the individual accompaniment tracks volume.
I think that's what caused the slight recording distortion.
I take into consideration that I've only had a total of about 6 hours with the Genos
up to now, spread over 3 different days.
The Genos owner himself was not much help, nor was the guy at the music store,
who is standing in until the store owner comes back from his Easter vacation.
I have a good relationship with the store owner, and I am convinced that he will
let me have it for a weekend when his store is closed.
Provided that I return it early on Monday morning.
He has lent me equipment to try out in the past, and I hope that he will do the
same this time.
Best Regards.
Abby.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Hi Abby,
You can find vocal parts on YouTube, like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7W0oVCyF5c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7W0oVCyF5c)
Here is a link to the mp3 file of this video clip: https://www.dropbox.com/s/k0btbz8e9zhph83/Stevie%20Wonder%20-%20Superstition%20%28Only%20Vocals%29.mp3?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/k0btbz8e9zhph83/Stevie%20Wonder%20-%20Superstition%20%28Only%20Vocals%29.mp3?dl=0)
Stijn
Hello Stijn.
Just amazing what one can do with technology nowadays.
Thank you for the enlightenment.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
My Genos is set up with a couple of Wharfedale Titan 8 active speakers, in a small room.
My dealer adviced me to put the the Master EQ on Flat and the Compressor set to OFF. He said he got the tip from a Yamaha specialist.
I asked a friend, who worked at the Philips factory as an audio specialist, to come listen and give me his opinion.
He also thought it to be the best set-up for the small room that I am using.
Stijn
-
As a starting point, I used these EQ and compressor settings posted by StephenM,
to whom I'm thankful. They are very good actually.
I made a few adjustments to them, not because they're not good, but in order to adjust
them to my headphones.
Provided that I return it early on Monday morning.
He has lent me equipment to try out in the past, and I hope that he will do the
same this time.
Best Regards.
Abby.
Abby, I'm glad to hear those EQ settings were a starting point for you. Good luck with your upcoming test(s). Sounds great if you can get to take the Genos on a gig for testing in a live situation.
-
My dealer adviced me to put the the Master EQ on Flat and the Compressor set to OFF. He said he got the tip from a Yamaha specialist.
Stijn
On my Genos I also have the Compressor set to Off. I went ahead and screen captured my EQ settings as an illustration of what works for me for my particular setup.
Mike
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Mike, Thanks for posting I like experimenting with different eq settings.
Stijn, I'll try your dealer suggested settings too.
-
Abby, I'm glad to hear those EQ settings were a starting point for you. Good luck with your upcoming test(s). Sounds great if you can get to take the Genos on a gig for testing in a live situation.
Hello Stephen.
Thank you again for your EQ and Compressor settings.
They were very good and helpful, as I mentioned above.
If the guy let's me have the Genos for a weekend, it will be more for the purpose
of familiarizing myself with the keyboard, and to learn as much as possible
about it within the short allowed time span.
The weekend I'm referring to would consist of Saturday afternoon till Monday
morning.
That would not be enough time to deal with all the registration transfer issues,
and all the individual tweaks I may have to do, in order to gig with it.
Being a showroom Instrument, I don't think it has been updated either.
It took me weeks of tweaking before I was confident enough to use my T3 in
front of an audience.
And I'm still finding out stuff that I didn't know was possible.
For example, I only learned about a month ago right here, how to save
song lyrics into a registration.
I'm not much of a geek. I normally would just tweak the Master EQ, Compressor,
individual track EQ, and right hand voices, then save them to registrations.
That's about it.
Most important for me is to hook the Genos up to my sound system,
to hear what it sounds like on my current gear.
There is a soundproofed underground Discotheque in one of the hotels
where I play that is unused.
I normally would go set up my gear in there, and blast away to my heart's
content, without being heard. That's what I did with my T3 eight years ago.
Hopefully the store owner will be there tomorrow. I'll make my pitch and see
what he says.
My advantage is that I'm probably one of a fast shrinking pool of people who
are interested in Arrangers nowadays.
A lot of home users and composers have turned to Computer software for
their musical needs.
99.9 percent of so called performers in hotels here have completely given up
playing.
Some used to pretend to play, but have now given up the pretence altogether,
choosing to show up armed with just a Laptop.
It would not surprise me if I were to be the only one to buy an arranger here.
So my chances look pretty good.
We'll see what happens tomorrow.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
Abby, many of the players here have long since left the hotel and restaurant jobs and opted to perform in the senior venues, mainly because the pay is far better, the hours are better, and audiences tend to me more appreciative and there are far more job opportunities for musical entertainers who actually play than DJs, KJs and Laptop performers.
Here, in the USA, retirement communities are a huge, very profitable business. The residents usually enjoy musical entertainment at least two days a week, and in some locations, up to 5 days a week. Some of the communities, which are usually housed in a huge building complex, have their own theaters, nite clubs and pubs, each of which features musical entertainment regularly. I have a friend that has a 17-piece big band, and he is booked three days a week with his band at retirement communities in Maryland alone.
I think you will really like what you hear when you get the Genos properly tuned for your needs, but as I stated earlier, if there is not a WOW factor for you, then go for a Tyros 5, which would be a serious upgrade from the T3. Should be a lot less expensive, too.
Good luck,
Gary 8)
-
Gary: I hear I will have to move to the USA to have a good time in a senior community!
-
Toril, This is one of the retirement communities I performed at regularly.
https://www.brightviewseniorliving.com/find-a-community/brightview-avondell/photo-gallery (https://www.brightviewseniorliving.com/find-a-community/brightview-avondell/photo-gallery)
This gives you an idea of how upscale these places really are in my part of the world.
Here's one in Florida, that has several similar facilities situated all over the USA. https://www.thevillages.com/ (https://www.thevillages.com/)
All the best,
Gary :cool:
-
Hello Gary.
Sorry that I didn't respond promptly to your post yesterday.
It was late when I got back from the Genos session at my friend's place.
That's why I just wrote a global response.
I envy you guys there, in the fact that there are so many opportunities to
perform the senior circuit.
There's not much of a senior circuit here. There are two homes for seniors but
I don't believe that they can really afford entertainment.
We have a family friend in one of them, and I had a conversation with their Director
a couple of years ago..
He said it was a quiet community where they hardly do much entertainment, but he
would let me know if any special event crops up.
That was two years ago, and I did not pursue it any further.
What we have here are some hotels that cater exclusively to Spanish pensioners in the
winter months.
It is a programme subsidised by the Spanish government, where they make a deal with
some hotels to accept the pensioners for a very low price, where 80% is paid by the
government, and the pensioner pays around 20%.
The pay is terrible, but it provides work for musicians, because they insist on
musicians that actually play. Not some guy and his Laptop.
I'm playing in those on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays, since early March.
I also do an open air gig for a different kind of venue every Saturday.
And what you say is true, the audiences are much more appreciative.
I'll be with them till April the 30th, when I'll start playing in my usual Summer
hotels.
As far as the Genos is concerned, you as a professional musician will better
understand my reasoning.
The Genos is not a bad arranger.
And I am trying to get as much time with it, plus knowledge of it,
before deciding if it would be beneficial, and necessary, to buy it now,
or wait.
My waiting since it's launch has already paid off, as prices have come
down from 4499€ at launch, to 3400€ now.
Like most other arrangers, it has to be tweaked and personalised until we are
satisfied that what we are hearing is the best sound we can get out of it, and
what we want our audiences to hear.
I am still tweaking my T3 while playing, 8 years after having bought it.
I just approach the Genos from a business point of view.
Do I need it to earn a living? Will it increase my income due to improved
sound quality? Will my audiences care whether I play this or another keyboard?
Does it have any new styles that could be useful to me and open up new
opportunities? Etc.
I am not " In Love " with it as some others claim to be.
In fact, I have never been "In Love" with any instrument that I have owned.
Being not in love with my instrument does not make me a worse, or better,
musician in the eyes of most reasonable people.
Any musician who knows the highs and lows, and the pleasure and grief of
depending exclusively on performing to earn a living, will understand and agree
with what I'm saying.
My biggest priority every day, is to try and make myself a better musician
and human being.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
Abby, I agree 100-percent, especially about the business aspects. I looked at my keyboard as a tool to make a living, which it did for more than 30 years. Prior to that, I was a part time musician, and worked in other fields, which is a huge difference. When I was a weekend warrior musician/singer/entertainer I often used an inexpensive arranger keyboard, a PSR-500, which everyone enjoyed hearing. However, it was very rare to have someone say "I really loved how that keyboard sounded." The compliments were usually about my singing abilities and how much they loved my vocals. And, the same held true when I played a 12-string guitar and sang country music. They could care less that I was strumming a Yamaha, or a high priced Gibson or Ibanez. To them, it was my overall performances that kept them on the dance floor and kept them coming back, week after week to be entertained.
I pretty much tell everyone to ask themselves the same questions you posed pertaining to the business aspects of purchasing a new keyboard. It makes good sense!
Gary 8)
-
Abby, I agree 100-percent, especially about the business aspects. I looked at my keyboard as a tool to make a living, which it did for more than 30 years. Prior to that, I was a part time musician, and worked in other fields, which is a huge difference. When I was a weekend warrior musician/singer/entertainer I often used an inexpensive arranger keyboard, a PSR-500, which everyone enjoyed hearing. However, it was very rare to have someone say "I really loved how that keyboard sounded." The compliments were usually about my singing abilities and how much they loved my vocals. And, the same held true when I played a 12-string guitar and sang country music. They could care less that I was strumming a Yamaha, or a high priced Gibson or Ibanez. To them, it was my overall performances that kept them on the dance floor and kept them coming back, week after week to be entertained.
I pretty much tell everyone to ask themselves the same questions you posed pertaining to the business aspects of purchasing a new keyboard. It makes good sense!
Gary 8)
Very well said Gary.
You've conveyed my thoughts much better than I could possibly have
done myself.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
Toril, This is one of the retirement communities I performed at regularly.
https://www.brightviewseniorliving.com/find-a-community/brightview-avondell/photo-gallery (https://www.brightviewseniorliving.com/find-a-community/brightview-avondell/photo-gallery)
This gives you an idea of how upscale these places really are in my part of the world.
Here's one in Florida, that has several similar facilities situated all over the USA. https://www.thevillages.com/ (https://www.thevillages.com/)
All the best,
Gary :cool:
Ditto what Gary wrote. Interesting Brookdale and Brightview senior facilities are national we have quite a few facilities owned by them here in the small state of Rhode Island.
As for the Villages my wife and I spent 2 months there this past winter. In winter of 2019 we hope to be there for 3 months. It is a thriving 55+ community music nightly on 3 different town squares. This past winter I played a weekly piano solo gig in the lobby of a beautiful medical faciity I’m booked for next winter too. The bit of negative is there are so many musicians who are retired from full time work that the pay scale is not as high as it is in the North East section of the US.
-
the Master EQ on Flat and the Compressor set to OFF.
These are exactly my settings as well and my Genos sounds absolutely great!
I like to hear the sound Yamaha had in mind. Their mixing engineers are top notch, IMHO. So I have monitor speakers with a flat frequency response (HS7) in my living room and EQ to flat and compressor off. Turning the compressor off gives the sound more "bite".
I notice that the sound of the Genos is well balanced and has more bass than the Tyros 5.
The only EQ needed is to fix problems with the room or speakers, not with the sound of the Genos itself.
Maarten
-
Hello Gary.
My biggest priority every day, is to try and make myself a better musician
and human being.
Best Regards.
Abby.
Hi Abby,
1
What is your opinion on speakers. I have so far been using Genelec Studio monitos that are outrageously expensive and weigh 17 kg. One can still to-day get them from Thomann for over 2000 $ a piece. They have served me well for 18 years, but now I am no more able to lift them in and out of my Range Rover that incidentally i also 18 years old.
Found LTO speakers that weigh only 7.5 kg and cost 1/10 e.g. 200 $. Now either my hearing is over the hill or technology has advanced. I did have to change the preamp treble a little bit lower, but after that they sounded to me and some friends indistinguishable from the costly ones playing the Genos,
2
I tried to comply with a request here to send the photos of the corrupted registry banks in my Genos, but I got a message "they had not passed security" . That's what always happens to the fossil, I do a lot of work and than everything is gone.
3
I also tried to send you a private message with my rendering of the tune "Crazy" played on Tyros 5/6 and on Genos,
to get an opinion about whether you can hear a difference or not. I cannot, but maybe MP3 is not good enough for such a judgement anyway. But of course I again got a message that it had not worked, this time "time had run out." :) Could you please send me an e-mail to my addresss v.freymann@welho.com so I could mail you the MP3 file.
Cheers
Kaarlo
-
As we have said in your other threads we need the registration to try on Genos. Photo's will not tell us much.
It is very easy to upload a registration on here.
-
Hello Kaarlo.
About the speakers, I use two JBL EON 1500 as my main speakers, and a
Behringer B1500HP Subwoofer for my gigs.
The JBLs weigh 17 Kilos each, and the subwoofer weighs 42 Kilos.
The JBL speakers are passive, so I also use a 1000 watt Yamaha EMX5000
powered mixer.
The Behringer subwoofer has 2200 watts, and adds great depth to the
overall sound during gigs.
A good and powerful subwoofer is an absolute must, to avoid having the
arranger sound like a cheap 100$ Casio.
This was my first reaction to the T3 when I first played it live on my JBLs.
It sounded cheap and terrible.
It sounded absolutely great on the Tyros speakers that came with it,
or on headphones, but not on my JBLs.
I had never had this problem when I was using a Roland G 800.
It took weeks of tweaking before I dared to play it in front of an audience again.
And I'm still constantly tweaking it as I play, depending on the room, or when
playing outdoor gigs.
I have sent you an E-mail in case you still want to send me the songs.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
Abby, I agree. First and foremost, a high quality sound system, including a good sub woofer, is an absolute must for any live performer. Additionally, as we grow older, we must eventually lighten the load, which was one of the many reasons I went with the Bose L1 PAS system many years ago. It had an incredibly powerful 10-inch, long throw sub, plus 24 speakers in the sound column. I performed for up to 1,200 people outdoors at a very noisy venue and had no problems rocking the place with the master volume only set slightly above the halfway mark.
Over the years, I have owned many, many arranger keyboards of various brands, including Korg, Roland, Yamaha and others. In every instance, those keyboards never left the office for up to 3 months while I tweaked and tuned them until I felt they were ready to go on stage and I was familiar and confident with the operating system. If I were to purchase a brand new Genos today, it would not be on stage until July. However, if after a few days of setting up the keyboard I didn't feel that Wow Factor, the keyboard would be returned and I would stick with what I already had enjoyed great success with over the years, even if I had to purchase a new keyboard of the same old model because the current board was just worn out from years of performing.
All the best,
Gary 8)
-
Hello Gary.
How many sound columns and Subwoofers did you use?
Meaning, did you use a separate Sub for each column?
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
Columns and subwoofers?
You guys must play in some huge venues?
-
Abby, when I used the Bose L1 PAS, it was a single column with 24 tiny speakers and a separate 10-sub. When I later went to the Bose L1 Compact, I used two systems, which provided coverage for audiences to about 500 people. The standard Bose L1 was used in mono, however, both outputs from the keyboard were fired into the onboard mixer in separate channels, which when combined, provided outstanding sound quality and an incredible spatial coverage of nearly 210 degrees. The falloff from this system at 100-feet was less than 10 percent. Consequently, the audience heard the same volume 100 feet from the stage as those that were sitting just a few feet away. This eliminated the need for a monitor. The speakers were positioned behind me and off to the side. No feedback problems with this system, ever.
Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqw1JCq3V90 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqw1JCq3V90)
All the best,
Gary 8)
-
Gary, the Bose L1 1S has 12 tweeters. The L2 has 24 tweeters. Or, are you talking about a VERY old Bose system that had 24 tweeters and was called the L1? Not so today. Just curious.
-
Guitpic, my largest audiences were often outdoor venues, concerts in the park, outdoor weddings, pool parties, and huge fishing tournaments. Audience size ranged from 300 to 1,500 people, often spread out over a large area such as a park measuring several acres in size. The only system I found that could handle the park jobs was the Bose L1 PAS. No conventional system proved quality sound at great distances - they all distorted at higher volumes.
Gary 8)
-
Lee, the L1 PAS was later replaced with the L1 Mod II, which is still available.
Gary 8)
-
Ah...thanks Gary. So, it is pre-L2. I use two Compacts with my own 15" sub design. It's killer!
-
Hello Gary.
Thanks for the video that you posted.
I've watched it and it makes a very convincing argument.
I've read about this system, but this video expains it better, especially with the
Visual and Aural comparison.
This may be something for me. My Subwoofer alone weighs 42 kilos
I lift it up to my chest twice a day, every day now, loading and unloading
from the car.
Then lift it again around the stage while positioning it, as well as all my
other gear.
All.my gig gear comes to a total of 185 kilograms, that I shift twice a day.
So this Bose L1 system might definitely be something for me.
Or perhaps the L2?
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
Abby, in this day of technology there is no longer the need to use heavy gear for our venues. I use two Bose L1 Compacts (13 kilos each) and a home made 15 inch subwoofer (18 kilos). I can supply sound for up to 300. Gary's Bose system is even bigger at marginally more weight. My sub is probably louder, but it is overkill for most of our work.
At my age, I prefer to leave all the heavy lifting to the young rock stars who know nothing about dynamics :).
-
That Bose sub weighed just 26-pounds (11-Kilos) and would blow the windows out of any venue I performed. It was a long throw sub, which means it will go to very low frequencies and move lots of air. It was awesome to say the very least. Having worked with some monster subs many years ago, the long throw subs, some up to 3 inches of throw distance, were monsters back then, but today's technology has made a huge difference in the weight, which for this old man, saved my back.
All the best,
Gary 8)
-
Hello Gary.
Thanks for the video that you posted.
I've watched it and it makes a very convincing argument.
I've read about this system, but this video expains it better, especially with the
Visual and Aural comparison.
This may be something for me. My Subwoofer alone weighs 42 kilos
I lift it up to my chest twice a day, every day now, loading and unloading
from the car.
Then lift it again around the stage while positioning it, as well as all my
other gear.
All.my gig gear comes to a total of 185 kilograms, that I shift twice a day.
So this Bose L1 system might definitely be something for me.
Or perhaps the L2?
Best Regards.
Abby.
Hi Abby,
I have 2 Bose L1 Compact and auditioned the L2 several times.
First off; the sound clarity and coverage is amazing and you will hear things you haven't heard before.
However if you are used to a 42 Kg Sub, you will be disappointed with the B1 sub.
The B2 sub is much better but not close to a 15 or 18 inch sub.
I also want to point out an alternative since you are interested in the L1 Model2.
Look at the LD systems from Maui :
https://www.ld-systems.com/en/series/maui-series/maui-28-g2-compact-column-pa-system-with-mixer-and-bluetooth-black/?force_sid=8stih5f1demg3j9k8pm7hpf7q6 (https://www.ld-systems.com/en/series/maui-series/maui-28-g2-compact-column-pa-system-with-mixer-and-bluetooth-black/?force_sid=8stih5f1demg3j9k8pm7hpf7q6)
The Maui 28G2 is comparable to the L1 Model2.
I had a chance to audition the Maui on my last trip to Germany and liked them better than the Bose side by side.
And that for less than half the price :) :) :)
I know that might be a factor for you.
There are bigger options too ...
Don M here went from Bose to Maui and likes them better.
Several Synthzone members feel the same.
Just some food for thought. ;)
I will be adding the Maui 28G2 to my rig in the near future.
You can ad extra subs if you need to. Very flexible system.
Good luck
Eric
-
Hi Abby,
I have 2 of the LD Systems MAUI 28 G2's which use the same audio principle as the video of the Bose system which Gary put up previously. They are rated at 1000 watts RMS with a peak of 2000 watts and a maximum SPL of 126 dB. The integrated 4-channel mixer offers a microphone input, a high-impedance instrument input for an electric guitar for example, an input for source devices with line level and furthermore a Bluetooth unit, which can be used in parallel to the 3.5 mm mini-jack input. If you need more control over your sound you could use an external mixer. I have a QSC TouchMix 30 Pro digital mixer as an option if I see a need outside of a basic set up.
The subwoofer weighs 19.7kg and the two tower sections are 5.6kg each. Great for fitting into your car when transporting.
It is a very versatile system and has 120 degree horizontal cover and 20 degree vertical cover which greatly reduces the possibility of feedback if using good quality microphones. When I was looking for a system the MAUI was 1/3 the price of the Bose equivalent.
I did a spreadsheet some time ago in January 2017 comparing some of the line array speaker systems which is attached as it seems to have disappeared since I posted it.
LD Systems website:
https://www.ld-systems.com/en/series/maui-series/maui-28-g2-compact-column-pa-system-with-mixer-and-bluetooth-black/?force_sid=kg3aj3hhlu6p3e002gq30tabi0
Murray
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Abby, for your venues I believe the Maui 28s would be the best bang for the buck.
I use two Maui 5s. I previously used two Bose Compacts, and before that the larger Bose line array systems, L1 and L2.
The Maui 5s are comparable in size and weight to the Bose Compacts, but they have a deeper, stronger bass, plenty of e.q. controls, more ins and outs and even Bluetooth capability if you ever need it. AND they are half the price of the Compacts.
They will easily handle crowds up to 50 to 75, depending on the circumstances.
The 28's will handle much larger crowds.
As noted there is no need to haul around heavy p.a. equipment any more!
-
Anyone use a pair of these Maui 5's at home? or do they not work up close?
-
Anyone use a pair of these Maui 5's at home? or do they not work up close?
I use a pair of these for home monitor use. I also use them when gigging for crowds around 50 folks or so. They weigh in at 15lbs(6.8 kilos) each.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/S1Pro--bose-s1-pro-multi-position-pa-system
-
They sound great up close. Sitting right in front of two is like sitting in a recording studio!
-
Anyone use a pair of these Maui 5's at home? or do they not work up close?
I have a Maui 5 and a Bose L1 Compact. When I’m not gigging I’ve got them set up in a home studio and they sound great.
-
Hello Kaarlo.
About the speakers, I use two JBL EON 1500 as my main speakers, and a
Behringer B1500HP Subwoofer for my gigs.
The JBLs weigh 17 Kilos each, and the subwoofer weighs 42 Kilos.
The JBL speakers are passive, so I also use a 1000 watt Yamaha EMX5000
powered mixer.
The Behringer subwoofer has 2200 watts, and adds great depth to the
overall sound during gigs.
A good and powerful subwoofer is an absolute must, to avoid having the
arranger sound like a cheap 100$ Casio.
This was my first reaction to the T3 when I first played it live on my JBLs.
It sounded cheap and terrible.
It sounded absolutely great on the Tyros speakers that came with it,
or on headphones, but not on my JBLs.
I had never had this problem when I was using a Roland G 800.
It took weeks of tweaking before I dared to play it in front of an audience again.
And I'm still constantly tweaking it as I play, depending on the room, or when
playing outdoor gigs.
I have sent you an E-mail in case you still want to send me the songs. Yes I do and will.
Best Regards.
Abby.
This is the kind of information I highly appreciate. Posts like these is what separates the men from the boys even if the boys are 83 like myself. And then one realizes that there is no way to work with speakers one is able to carry oneself.
Thanks once again Abby.
Cheers
Kaarlo
-
These are exactly my settings as well and my Genos sounds absolutely great!
I like to hear the sound Yamaha had in mind. Their mixing engineers are top notch, IMHO. So I have monitor speakers with a flat frequency response (HS7) in my living room and EQ to flat and compressor off. Turning the compressor off gives the sound more "bite".
I notice that the sound of the Genos is well balanced and has more bass than the Tyros 5.
The only EQ needed is to fix problems with the room or speakers, not with the sound of the Genos itself.
So what settings do you recommend for earphones?
Graham
Maarten
-
I have rhe Bose L1 compact. It is awsome!
-
Hello Kaarlo.
About the speakers, I use two JBL EON 1500 as my main speakers, and a
Behringer B1500HP Subwoofer for my gigs.
The JBLs weigh 17 Kilos each, and the subwoofer weighs 42 Kilos.
The JBL speakers are passive, so I also use a 1000 watt Yamaha EMX5000
powered mixer.
The Behringer subwoofer has 2200 watts, and adds great depth to the
overall sound during gigs.
A good and powerful subwoofer is an absolute must, to avoid having the
arranger sound like a cheap 100$ Casio.
This was my first reaction to the T3 when I first played it live on my JBLs.
It sounded cheap and terrible.
It sounded absolutely great on the Tyros speakers that came with it,
or on headphones, but not on my JBLs.
I had never had this problem when I was using a Roland G 800.
It took weeks of tweaking before I dared to play it in front of an audience again.
And I'm still constantly tweaking it as I play, depending on the room, or when
playing outdoor gigs.
I have sent you an E-mail in case you still want to send me the songs.
Best Regards.
Abby.
Here is the same song, I chose piano because that is where I can hear differences best, played on Tyros and Genos.
Do you think a person in the audience can hear the difference ?
Cheers
Kaarlo
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Kaarlo, I agree with you 100%, most listeners wouldn’t know or wouldn’t care,
As long as they get good music
Good music probably means a good player,
-
the system I use is Qsc k 10 and an Allen and Heath Z6FX here is the qsc k10 link https://www.qsc.com/live-sound/products/loudspeakers/stage-monitors/k10/ and here is the Allen and Heath link. http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/zed-6fx/
-
Kaarlo, I agree with you 100%, most listeners wouldn’t know or wouldn’t care,
As long as they get good music
Good music probably means a good player,
Thanks Pino,
I see the comparison has been downloaded by quite a few, but so far you are the only one to comment. These things are difficult and emotionally loaded. Who wants to admit he spent a lot of money that strictly speaking does not have a "business=gig" reason. We tend to be happier buying a new car we want explaining "now is the right moment to trade in" which is pure b..it for a private person who can use a taxi when the old car is being repaired (a taxi driver losing his income due to the car being in a workshop is another story) I have a 27 year old Mercedes and an 18 year old Range Rover. Just the depreciation of a new Range Rover in the first year is 10 x more than I spend on repairing these old cars every year. In order to justify our extravagant choices we see, sorry hear things, that are barely discernible just as a new girlfriend always looks better than she really does. That is why I am not so happy when people write, "My Genos finally arrived this afternoon, I love it. " when I am looking for information. Fortunately I happen to have a wife who says, "My dear, if you want to buy that new Genos even though you are not 100 % convinced it is way better than your old one, please buy it even if nobody can hear any difference." So that is why I have one and all the problems that new keyboards always have. Let us not forget Tyros was perfect only after 5 updates and my friendly dealer having exchanged all its innards.
Cheers
Kaarlo
-
Here is the same song, I chose piano because that is where I can hear differences best, played on Tyros and Genos.
Do you think a person in the audience can hear the difference ?
Cheers
Kaarlo
Is this recorded with the CFX Piano ?? on the Genos ?
-
Is this recorded with the CFX Piano ?? on the Genos ?
Glad you ask soryt,
There is one quote from Mark Twain I love: "I was gratified to be able to give and immediate and correct answer ". which in his case was "I do not know " :)
In this case: YES it was done with the CFX Piano directly from Genos out (not digital, normal analogue as we use on gigs) to a TASCAM recorder recording to a card which then was transferred to my PC.
Cheers
Kaarlo
-
Kaarlo,
When I listened, diverting the mp3's output through my keyboard's speakers (as opposed to listening on inferior PC or tablet speakers!) I could hear a difference. The Genos piano had slightly more depth than the Tyros one and the clarity was better. Your audiences may very well not notice a difference. It's usually the player (especially home players who have more time :)) IMO who pay more attention to voice quality and comparisons, rather than audiences.
How differently the pianos are judged will depend to a large extent on the type of music played. Testing a slower piece, with rich chording, extensive use of sustain, and plenty of expression will probably show up larger differences between them - especially for the player.
John
-
Kaarlo,
When I listened, diverting the mp3's output through my keyboard's speakers (as opposed to listening on inferior PC or tablet speakers!) I could hear a difference. The Genos piano had slightly more depth than the Tyros one and the clarity was better. Your audiences may very well not notice a difference. It's usually the player (especially home players who have more time :)) IMO who pay more attention to voice quality and comparisons, rather than audiences.
How differently the pianos are judged will depend to a large extent on the type of music played. Testing a slower piece, with rich chording, extensive use of sustain, and plenty of expression will probably show up larger differences between them - especially for the player.
John
John I very much agree with what you say. I wrote you a long long answer with WAVE samples to prove your point, but it bounced. What I hate about this wonderful technology is in case the attachment bounces you lose whatever you wrote.
Cheers
Kaarlo
-
Kaarlo, the simple solution to losing your text is to highlight and copy it before pressing that submit button. That way, if you loose it, it's just a matter of clicking Paste into the next submission.
Good luck,
Gary 8)
-
Kaarlo, maybe you can write the original in MS Word or IOS Pages and copy and paste Your replies,
-
What I hate about this wonderful technology is in case the attachment bounces you lose whatever you wrote.
Just hit the back button, and your post will be there.
Hope this helps.
Fref
-
Just hit the back button, and your post will be there.
Hope this helps.
Fref
Thanks Gary and Fred for trying to help. The problem at 83 is you do not do what you know you should do. How many times have I not been writing a long document on my PC, for instance a drone manual WITHOUT saving it along the way, which I KNOW I should. You are 100 % right it is best to write anything in Word and then copy it into any "writing window ". Having for so long worked with a 10 x 4 foot table, all documents neatly laid out in whatever pattern was appropriate for the job, working with the PC where the next to last document is always hidden by the present is harder for me than it should be due to the dismal short time memory. Will now try to send just one WAV attachment, first Tyros and then in the next post the Genos in WAV . The difference in WAV is easier to hear then in MP3.
There is one thing we, myself included, easily forget when discussing these things: YAMAHA is not selling keyboards to the audience but to the players, so even if the audience in a noisy environment cannot neither hear nor actually appreciate an improvement in sound, that is only an issue in case the prospective buyer bases his decision purely on "audience reaction value", which a large part of the buyers will not do as they are often playing at home when preparing for their gigs.
Cheers
Kaarlo
It happened again, and here I am back with the help of the back button. It was not right there, I landed somewhere else, but it could be found. I will now shorten the WAW files and try again
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Hi Kaarlo,
I listened to your comparison and I believe there is mainly the player him-/herself that can notice the difference.
(Or if there should be a pianist in the audience that pays attention).
My compliments on your playing as well. It is balanced and got that swing.
Kind regards Marcus
-
In my ears the tyros sounds better ? , Strange :-)
If you play the CFX sample besides the "old" Tyros Piano there is a big difference , isnt it strange that in this recordings there is almost no difference ?
Soryt :)
-
I agree with soryt. The Genos piano seemed to be more lost within the accompaniment which would be enough to downrate it. (Maybe the balance was not set loud enough). When played live on Genos the CFX piano sounds streets ahead of the Tyros flagship ConcertGrand. The latter does not sound any better to me even when played on Genos (it is available in Legacy voices). Formerly the LiveGrand was a more satisfying voice for piano players - now available as GrandPiano in Genos legacy, and still sounding good! Which Tyros voice did you select?
As implied before, although a good stirring number, certainly well played and appreciated by audiences, it is not the best test IMO for overall comparisons. On the other hand it probably helps to demonstrate that at the current levels of technology too much emphasis on detailed debates about which is best are not so relevant for the gigging circuit. :)
John
-
In my ears the tyros sounds better ? , Strange :-)
If you play the CFX sample besides the "old" Tyros Piano there is a big difference , isnt it strange that in this recordings there is almost no difference ?
Soryt :)
Well. I can only say the only difference when recording the samples was that I set all piano parts in Tyros 5/6 to grand piano and to CFX on Genos.
What all this seems to indicate to me is YAMAHA' s keyboard voices have reached an unprecedented level of authenticity and we are basically dealing with personal preferences, de gustibus non est disputandum is what already the Romans said, matters of taste cannot be disputed, to which some - me included say: :) on the contrary, only matters of taste can be the subject of a dispute. Facts are facts so they are indisputable. Nobody can claim TYROS 5/6 is not heavier than Genos. Nobody can deny the sliders on Genos are nice to have in a live situation. I would be very happy with my Genos were it not for the (disputable fact ? ) that the registry bank memory on the two specimens I have here is not reliable and so far nobody has been able to help me with a fix.
Cheers
Kaarlo
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Kaarlo, I think we can help you with your registration issues. All we need are two things:
- Copies of the faulty registrations - which you have already posted
- What you wish to accomplish - which seems to be unknown at the moment, or am I in error?
And while I'm thinking of it - the bulleted list function on this forum doesn't work using conventional methods! Normally, you select both lines, and then click the bullet icon, but the resulting code is incorrect. I have to use my knowledge of HTML to manually modify the code because this forum software does not apply the bullets according to how the vast majority of software does! Can someone please tell me how to make several individual lines, bullets?
-
Yes Lee,
I already requested this information from Kaarlo. The registrations are loading in fine and staying as set but they are not what Kaarlo wants. Once a registration bank is set up as it should be it will not alter when used again.
-
Yes Lee,
I already requested this information from Kaarlo. The registrations are loading in fine and staying as set but they are not what Kaarlo wants. Once a registration bank is set up as it should be it will not alter when used again.
Thanks Eileen, that is exactly what one would expect and what is necessary if you are to use a keyboard at a gig. My problem is it does not on both Genos specimens I have. That the registrations I sent you are corrupt is evident. No-one would make that stupid banks. They are not what was input and memorized and controlled to have been memorized correctly by calling up the bank a little later, looking at the info and playing the whole bank as there are things like volume balance of style and right hand that is not listed in the info. Out of shear desperation I yesterday spent an hour making a new bank progressively (one up) changing EVERY thing under each button: new style, new tempo, new key, new voice, new harmony, new volume balance under each button. It did work as memorized when I after a while called up the bank and played through all 10 banks. I am afraid within a few days without ever having been opened the bank will be corrupt just as the ones I sent to Eileen. Will be back.
Thanks for your patience
Cheers
Kaarlo
-
I recognize Kaarlo his problem with registration banks , after the 1.20 update a lot of registrations made in Ver 1.10 dont work anymore ?
Al the selected file's used in that registrations ( Sty, sound, song , text , etc.) are saved in the user memory , it isnt a isue with the Usb ports.
but the strange thing is that sometimes the "corrupt" registration suddenly works , and some times it doesnt , switching power of/on will sometimes help.
I send a mail to Yamaha , and the respond was :it is sometimes possible that a "bug" occures because the complexity of the machine , they will have a look at the problem .
Soryt 8)
-
Hi Kaarlo,
When you have completed the bank are you then pressing the file button and selecting save Save then choosing where you want it and pressing Save Here and then naming it. Are you using the parameter lock. If so take it off whilst saving your bank. Then when you have completed a bank try it and if it is OK put the parameter lock back on. I have posted an example on your other thread.
-
To my knowledge, there has never been a corrupt registration. That said, it is possible to have a registration link to a corrupt style or midi file, but the registration itself will only do exactly what you tell it to do. This is NOT a bug!
Gary 8)
-
Agreed, Gary. A registration is nothing more than a series of very good pointers. If it points to a bad style, there's your problem.
-
Does the registration bank always sort itself out if you power off, wait for a while, then power on again? There could be an issue with an overheating component.
Back about 35 years ago, a friend of mine had a ZX81 (a very early and simple home computer). When you had some text on the screen then very slowly, over the course of about 10 minutes, all the letter "L"s on the screen morphed into "K"s as the machine heated up. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.
-
I recognize Kaarlo his problem with registration banks , after the 1.20 update a lot of registrations made in Ver 1.10 dont work anymore ?
I haven't had any trouble with my registrations, and I have over 400 of them. They all worked when ported from the T4, and all remained working when going through 1.10 to 1.20.
Fred
-
I haven't had any trouble with my registrations, and I have over 400 of them. They all worked when ported from the T4, and all remained working when going through 1.10 to 1.20.
Fred
Lucky you , ;D
I have made about 550 registrations , and there are a few that doesnt work all the time .
For example one registration contents : style ,voice, effect , song 1&2 (midi & Mp3/wave),Text .when i recal the registration, i see in screen al the info of the registration and the desired style , but it doesnt play that selected style ? , After switching the Genos Of and restart sometimes the registration works . ( not always)
After 15 years of use of the whole Tyros range i am familiar with all the Yamaha software structure , so i dont think it is a user's error . ( spend ±3 hours a day with the instruments) average .
And not to forget , with the internal styles is there no problem with registrations.
Soryt 8)
-
If the goal is to load all old stuff as it was at discontinued models, why on earth do you change keyboards at all? ??? :o
To me the goal is to get the best possible out of G, not to make it sound and act like T4 or other T or PSR's.
-
Using registrations from Tyros 4-5 sound much improved sound wise when loaded into Genos. It is a starting point for some and they can then add new voices or styles if they wish.
-
I had no problems with my Regs finding styles on Genos, most of which are Users.
Tyros5 registrations could not be used without modification mainly because the balances had to be changed by up to a third, otherwise many came out too loud and shrill.
Otherwise I have found they work reliably for their most straightforward uses--ie. for Tyros type operations.
There are problems which are associated with the newer capabilities of registrations on Genos related to retaining the details of DSP's. If 1 Dsp is in use on a right hand voice the details are remembered well enough, but there are inconsistencies with LH voices. A single setting (not all) within a left voice DSP sometimes changes and completely spoils the sound, following a registration edit to one of the RH voices. If this would happen every time I would have already discussed this with Yamaha but it doesn't and is frustrating.
There is something generally wrong with firmware handling of effects on left voices since the assigned DSP will not save within a user voice (whereas it it does with RH voices) and the DSP type in the voice screen is not stable - turn it off and unlike the RH voices, it will show a different type, and you have to press the reg. Button again to reinstate the correct one.
You would expect registrations to be able to save details within System Dsp's. I have been editing a registration which uses a chorus Tremolo. Up to now no problem.
But this week when I modify it and memorise I find the edited DSP details are no longer saved to the new reg. button (after many tries and checks etc.). They revert to the preset settings.
I could go on but I'm sure boredom has set in already ::)
John
-
If the goal is to load all old stuff as it was at discontinued models, why on earth do you change keyboards at all? ??? :o
To me the goal is to get the best possible out of G, not to make it sound and act like T4 or other T or PSR's.
I talk about new made registrations from scratch on the Genos , not T5 regs , I am not an idiot :-X
S,
-
Here is the same song, I chose piano because that is where I can hear differences best, played on Tyros and Genos.
Do you think a person in the audience can hear the difference ?
Cheers
Kaarlo
Hello Kaarlo.
First let me congratulate you on the excellent playing of both Alley Cat and the
Boogie styles.
I have downloaded both and have been listening for a couple of days now through
two very high quality sets of headphones, and even asked my wife to join me in
listening.
She is a trained Classical Pianist, so I asked her to listen to the songs through both
sets of headphones , then asked if she noticed any difference between the two
versions. She noticed none.
Then i asked if she liked any particular version, without me
saying which keyboard was being played.
She actually liked the T5 versions better, both times.
I did notice a difference, just that, a difference.
That means that none of the keyboards sounded better than the other.
They were just slightly different,
Those in an audience who WANT to hear a difference, will swear by all that
they hold holy that they hear a difference.
Others will just concentrate keenly on the person doing the actual playing.
Trying to decided whether that person has what it takes.
Audiences today are very savvy, and you have to pound them with good playing
all night, before they finally admit that they are impressed.
Being able to play a simple song from beginning to end without mistakes will not
impress them.
They want to see you thrash the life out of the Piano or keyboard.
And if you can do that and sing as well, all the better.
They will quickly spot a button pusher, and once they do, you're cooked.
Nothing you will do for the rest of the evening, will change their minds.
They will not notice, or care, whether one keyboard sounds slightly better than the
other. It is the last thing on their minds.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
Abby, I agree 100 percent! And, because I am not a musician, but instead, just a hack entertainer, I can assure everyone that it's the person behind the keyboard that counts the most with every audience I performed in front of for more than 50 years. 20 years with a guitar and singing, and 30 years with an arranger keyboard and singing, then I retired. During that entire time, the compliments were always about my vocals - not how the keyboards or the guitars sounded, and I upgraded many times with both instruments.
All the best,
Gary 8)
-
All very true guys, but I have found over the years a superior sounding instrument makes me a better musician because it inspires me and encourages me to explore more musical avenues. By that logic, a better keyboard indirectly impresses the audience - they just aren't aware of it.
-
There are many ways to entertain. And many different kinds of successful entertainers. Abby has a rollicking, party style, and is really good at it. But not everyone has to thrash the life out of a keyboard. You might be providing mood music in a Four Seasons lounge, or accompanying a high quality jazz vocalist, or playing in a ceiledh band. You just need to be good at what you do if you want to make a decent living from playing. You can’t buy that in a keyboard, but like Lee says you might feel better doing it if you are playing what you believe is a great instrument.
Mike
-
Finally what happened with that store manager, did you managed to borrow the Genos for the weekend or you still waiting for him to come back from holidays?
By the way, I found this video on youtube, so I will leave it here. It seems there are several childhood illnesses yet with Genos, but the next firmware updates will solve them I guess, as it always happens. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sin4JYqtO5U
-
Finally what happened with that store manager, did you managed to borrow the Genos for the weekend or you still waiting for him to come back from holidays?
By the way, I found this video on youtube, so I will leave it here. It seems there are several childhood illnesses yet with Genos, but the next firmware updates will solve them I guess, as it always happens. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sin4JYqtO5U
Hello Arvacon.
He must be back by now. He had taken an Easter break.
I have been gigging intensively since the 22nd of March, and just did not have
the time right now to go into the city to see him.
Once I start my gigging cycle it becomes the only priority for me.
I was free yesterday, but had to go looking for a reasonably priced garage
to fix my power steering that has suddenly stopped working, and possibly
change the timing belt as well while at it.
It's a priority too, because if don't have a car I can't transport my gear.
I have a second car, but it's a small VW Polo that I use for small errands.
My next day off will be next Monday, I may be able to go see him then.
I can also call and ask, but these things are better done face-to-face.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
All very true guys, but I have found over the years a superior sounding instrument makes me a better musician because it inspires me and encourages me to explore more musical avenues. By that logic, a better keyboard indirectly impresses the audience - they just aren't aware of it.
Hello Lee.
What you say is true.
However, from posts I have read on this forum over the past 6 months (yours included)
many stated that the T5 is also a superior sounding instrument.
I have never played a T5, but I was already blown away when I first played the T4 at
a friend's house 8 years ago.
So the T5 cannot suddenly be all that bad.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
There are many ways to entertain. And many different kinds of successful entertainers. Abby has a rollicking, party style, and is really good at it. But not everyone has to thrash the life out of a keyboard. You might be providing mood music in a Four Seasons lounge, or accompanying a high quality jazz vocalist, or playing in a ceiledh band. You just need to be good at what you do if you want to make a decent living from playing. You can’t buy that in a keyboard, but like Lee says you might feel better doing it if you are playing what you believe is a great instrument.
Mike
Hello Mike.
In the late 80s I used to play in a Sheraton hotel Piano Lounge in Belgium.
Filling in for a Pianist named Victor, when he had his days off, or a hangover.
Thrashing a Piano does not necessarily imply violence towards the instrument.
Victor played Film, Lounge, and Jazz music.
But by God! He could thrash the Piano, gently and beautifully, but a good
thrashing nevertheless.
I would go every night he played, and listen to him from beginning to end.
I worshipped the guy.
He was already in his 60s at the time, and drank too much, but I hope that he
he is still Jazzing it up somewhere.
My use of the words "thrashing an instrument" mostly means impressive playing
of an instrument. Sometimes for the purpose of entertaining others, and
sometimes just for oneself at home.
Best Regards.
Abby.
-
All very true guys, but I have found over the years a superior sounding instrument makes me a better musician because it inspires me and encourages me to explore more musical avenues. By that logic, a better keyboard indirectly impresses the audience - they just aren't aware of it.
Thanks Lee, how right you are. I posted the same thing somewhere here telling the story of when I got a Selmer saxophone and how just the feeling of having the most coveted horn made me improvise with more confidence and people telling me I had progressed. It was not, but the effect would have been the same even if my father had bought me a fake Selmer. I for one am convinced the placebo effect is real. It is a well known fact that in the sildenafil tests 18 % of those getting a sugar pill also experienced a marked improvement. It is a good example because the effect can be easily and immediately be experienced whereas the question "do you feel more energetic" since you take this vitamin pill is elusive.
Cheers
Kaarlo
-
Agreed Abby. My T5 was an amazing instrument but the Genos walks all over it in terms of pianos, drums, strings, effects, and general sound processing. There's no comparison when played through a quality gigging sound system. The Genos is so much more alive.
I'm really confused by those who don't hear a huge difference in the two. I wonder if they make the comparison under conditions they can't trust. For example, with cheap headphones, YouTube videos, poor quality sound systems, noisy demo venues like NAMM (There's the crappiest place to try to hear a new instrument. It's like a zoo!!). Beats me! All I know is my band mates, some clients, and some audience members are astounded by what they hear and tend to congregate around me when I'm packing up. It doesn't happen everywhere but often enough to NOT take notice.
-
You just need to be good at what you do if you want to make a decent living from playing. You can’t buy that in a keyboard, but like Lee says you might feel better doing it if you are playing what you believe is a great instrument.
Mike
Mike,
One could not say it better !
Cheers
Kaarlo
-
I have played the Genos. Fantastic instrument, and I definitely heard the difference. But it has a touch screen, and that concerns me because I have low vision. All the older models can be navigated without vision if you must, but not Genos..
-
Toril S, I understand that the latest update has a feature that vocally announces the functions. Not sure if it does it BEFORE you execute the command (touch the screen) and/or after.
If it works right, it could well be the most important innovation for visually-impaired people that has ever happened!
-
Don, that is good news indeed! The feature has been used by Apple for years, so it is possible.