PSR Tutorial Forum
Genos (12 Boards) => Genos - General => Topic started by: Will49 on December 31, 2017, 11:24:08 AM
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As stated in some previous posts, I just couldn't justify the expense involved in trading up from my T4 to a Genos, so went for a used T5/76 in mint condition instead... and I truly am very happy with it too! However, in about 18 months to 2 years time, maybe I will consider a used Genos (but it's a big "maybe" though). So, in the meantime, I would like to ask current Genos owners how much better they think Genos is than the T5 - based on a score of 0 to 10 (0 = no better really. 10 = vastly better in all aspects and worth every penny of whatever it cost to change.
By now, some of you guys will have had your Genos for some time, and will have had time to properly reflect on the whole experience whilst the initial excitement of the latest and best(??) is starting to wear off a bit. Of course, it will require all current Genos owners (those who are prepared to respond) to be TOTALLY honest! And if you happen to feel that the improvement over T5 might only be, say, about 4 or 5 out of 10, don't worry as I won't even ask why (well, not on here anyway) as that's entirely up to you whether you feel like supplying reasons for your score or not.
Thanks in advance,
Will
[Edit] Please comment below ONLY if you have, at any time, owned a Tyros 5, and are prepared to state (in points from zero to ten) how much better (or not) the Genos is when compared to the Tyros 5.
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If the price of an instrument is important , than is the passion to make music not big enough .
After 2 months i can say that the Genos is almost perfect , ( the Genos 2 will be better ;D )
Soryt ;D
A big 9
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Well for me it has to be a 10. I am loving every minute of it. The sound is so different to any thing I have had so far and makes you want to keep playing together with some of the new styles.
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After 2 months i can say that the Genos is almost perfect
Hi Soryt, thanks for your response. But you don't say if you had a T5 before it. If you did, then you might have felt that the T5 was "almost perfect" at one time as well? What I really want to know now is how much better than T5 (on the scale of 0 to 10) do people think Genos is.
Regards,
Will
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Hi Will
You ask a very interesting question,as you know,I changed from the T5- 76 to the Genos,I think a more important question is.....does Genos meet expectations?,especially after all the lead-up and hype before release.
For me personally, I am very happy I bought the Genos,although whether I could justify the cost to exchange is debatable 😁😁
I like the look of Genos,design, colour and touch screen,I enjoy using the new (revamped) styles and enhanced voices.That ,to me,makes it a justifiable cost.
I fully realise that some were expecting much more of the Genos,and perhaps with time and firmware upgrades, some or most of these wants and desires will be realised.
Overall,I would say I'm happy with my purchase and am happy with the upgrade from the T5,I would give it a score of 8 out of 10,any higher score would mean the keyboard needs to be approaching perfection,and that will not happen.
Whether a new instrument is good or bad is subjective,and everyone will have their own view.Genos is still relatively fresh to poeple and with the passing of time players will form a much more informed judgement.
A good post Will, hope my reply is helpful.
Happy New Year
Alan
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Overall,I would say I'm happy with my purchase and would give it a score of 8 out of 10,any higher score would mean the keyboard needs to be approaching perfection,and that will not happen.
A good post Will, hope my reply is helpful.
Happy New Year
Thank you Alan; that seems a very honest, no bull***t and well-balanced response! And not only have you given me the points out of ten (being 8 in your case) that you feel the Genos is better than the T5, you’ve also stated your reasons as well! That, indeed, is very helpful! Pleased to see you're enjoying your Genos... as I am with my T5/76!
Happy New Year to you also,
Will
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Hi Alan - I agree with you almost completely. Genos is really good. I would compare it to a Tyros 6. Absolutely an upgrade.
But is it worth the money, you ask? To be quite honest - I am in doubt. You could live “very well” with a Tyros 5. But if you need a new instrument and have to choose between a Tyros 5 and a Genos - AND money does not matter - I would go for the Genos. Otherwise Tyros 5 is a good choice. And to some extent much more simple to handle.
I would give it a cautious score of 4 ...
Torben
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Hi
I don’t have any arranger history and the Genos is my first. As you can see from my gear list I do have plenty of pro type synths. Hence no baggage. I had been intrigued by the idea of an arranger for a while and the Genos workstation promotion made me look more closely at it. The demo videos on you tube were also very impressive. Within 10 mins playing one at PMT Birmingham I was convinced
I bought one in early November. I have pretty much spent all my free time playing and learning more about it. I cannot remember ever having so much musical fun. I constantly get inspired to learn some new songs, expand my playing style and just have a blast. The hours just fly by especially over my Xmas break when I’ve had more time to play.
It’s a brilliant instrument. The sounds are amazing. The AI and articulation staggers me every day. The styles, song player, score display all work so well. I’ve even been able to learn lots of quite rare ELP things using some midi files and the score display. Eg Abaddons Bolero...
For me it’s a 9/10. Why not 10? Well the firmware upgrade means the DSP allocation and editing is a bit odd and clunky. If this is sorted soon so different effects can be simply allocated to voices and then individually edited for me that would be a big step up. The editing of voices is also very limited given my synths background. But-the range onboard is so good that you can pretty much get close to anything you need for most songs etc...
Happy new year.
Steve
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I don’t have any arranger history and the Genos is my first
Hi Steve,
no offense - but how can you compare the Genos to a Tyros5 when you apparently have no "arranger history". Beats me... ;)
But happy New Year!!
Torben
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Torben
I didn’t make any claim to be comparing it. I clearly explained I have no history with arrangers but gave my views on my fun with the Genos and a score out of 10 overall to help the original poster.
Cheers
Steve
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new PIANO sounds : +0.5
new strings, sa2 cello, sa2 oboe, other new sa2 sounds : +0.75
new ensemble voices : +0.25
arpegiattor: +0.25
drums : +1.25
new styles : +0.5
sliders and real-time possibilities : +0.75
new overall sound quality & effects : +1.25
new os, touch screen, memory management : +0.5
around 6/10 for me
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Hi Will
First of my score --- 5
The reason is I have mixed feelings. Sometimes I think it is just great and other days I have the odd thought that I wish I had kept my T5.
It is hard to say why though.
I like many things on the Genos,
The operating system is very good, or at least those things that are stable. I do not understand why though they removed many of the features of the Tyros. One in particular is the view of styles etc. On the Tyros we could choose to have a list view or a Block view. On the Genos this is not available in all modes. Another is why did they remove the Bar counter, it just seams stupid when they could have kept it.
I miss the tilting screen of the Tyros. Having a fixed one on the Genos makes it vulnerable to reflections from lights etc.
I only occasionally used the Music Finder on the Tyros, but why did they not retain it and introduce the Playlist. The conversion of MFD to Playlist (and Reg) seems so to be badly thought out.
I like the idea of the Appegiator but the way that they have implemented it is just not right for me.
Having said that I will still be keeping the Genus. I just hope they will sort out some of the things they either forgot about or programmed badly.
Bill
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The Tyros 5 is awesome, still easily ahead of the Korg Pa4X. However, to answer the question comparing the Tyros 5 to the latest Genos model, the Genos is a 10 in every category.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q5sxEn3.gif)
Marcus
edit: a "10" for Grandma's pies and cooking as well.
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After playing and using the Genos for two months I could not go back to a Tyros 5 without deep regret. The Genos is simply fun to play and for the home player it is simply
wonderful. I am not one to want to do a lot of fooling around with custom this or that but for those who do the Genos will also give enjoyment.
Some updates are in order and Yamaha will give them to those who wait. Like Eileen, I love to play and enjoy all the Genos has to offer. I do not regreat a penny of the cost
because I get that much enjoyment from it. Lloyd
PS: I am running two KRK speakers that have a separate amp. for each of the three speakers and they have great sound. I also have the Genos speakers and since tweaking
them by way of the mixer they sound really excelllent for home play or for small groups.
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Will
I have owned a T4 and a T5 and now a couple of days with Genos. It is still too early to quantify the differences and provide a rate. But instead, i can give you some points that i find worth mentioning.
I copied/pasted this from another post but it will give a good idea.
Just a couple of days playing with Genos. To tell you the truth at first i thought about sending it back. !!!!
That is because i am so used to T5 and Genos is not entirely but somewhat different. Things are now in different places. Even after reading the user manual a couple of times, it was exasperating at first. Still is, but the exasperation level dropped to 2% now that i am more familiar with it and the two of us are getting to know each other much better.
I realized that i was expecting the new keyboard to adapt to me. That was not happening and it was so frustrating. After changing my mindset for me to adapt to the new keyboard is like the light turned on. Also, got a lot of help reading old posts on this forum and asking new questions. The members response is great and extremely valuable.
Sound is excellent. There are things that you can do easier/faster/better with Genos. There are other things that were easier on T5.
Genos is a bit larger than T5-61. A bit lighter too, not much but it is lighter. At least it is not heavier - that is an advantage. Color is not that important to me but it looks nice. (like everything that is new !!).
- Transferred all T5 registrations, external styles, external multipads, etc, to Genos. All registrations playing well so far. I have only tested about a hundred but so far so good. New keyboard is smart enough to play everything from old registrations, styles, etc. If old style/voice is not present, Genos is smart enough to automatically replace by a similar new style. But i can still copy the old style from T5 to Genos and reprogram my registration if desired. In some cases the new style sounds better. In other cases, i reprogrammed registrations with the old style.
- instruments/voices sound great and have more expression, my perception.
- Already Setup iPad with SongBook+ connected to Genos. I am telling you, this combination is by far much better now. In the past i was controlling SongBook PDF's with the T5 keyboard. Now, I use Songbook to call the keyboard registration from the iPad and display the PDF on the iPad. The linking is so easy now. No more midis are needed for this.
- Playlists, are a great feature in Genos. However, i do not need it because now that i control the registrations with SongBook, i create playlist in SongBook and control the gig from there. It is much easier. In the past with T5 i created my playlists manually in excel and then renamed the songs with a numeral prefix from 01 to 99 and copied to USB stick inserted in T5. No need for that anymore. So, I have not even explored the Playlist feature in Genos and probably will not for a long while.
I like the new touch screen, it is clear and readable, although for people like me with old tired vision, characters could have been just a bit larger, since the screen is big enough. (Yamaha engineers are probably youngish and did not have old folks in mind when designing the screen).
So much for the myth that Yamaha keyboards are for older people !!!
Need to explore and see if the size of fonts can be changed on main screen, probably no.
Also, the touch screen is not tilt-able, probably to diminish risk of damage to the screen.
I like the new location of registrations memory. Right below the touch screen. In front of player and easier to access.
I do not use OTS, so for me nothing to compare to.
- To be quite honest, IMO T5 is still a great excellent keyboard and not too distant from Genos in quality, etc. (really do not want to start a controversial topic).
IMO there are a few minor design flaws in Genos but so far I managed to find workarounds.
For example, the USB underneath the Genos keyboard was designed more like a car needing an oil change. You have to get underneath the keyboard. If the keyboard is on a flat surface, good luck. It is not designed for easy access. Perhaps that was the idea behind this and purposely placed there. The cover has a screw and you need a phillips screwdriver . . . really ?
This one could have been placed in an easier to access location like the back of the keyboard with a self-secured cover and it would have been much better and still secure, or keep the screw but change the location. Once i finish my setup i will install the USB stick there and place back the screw to try to never open it again.
On the other hand, i have not had any problems whatsoever with the naming of the USB sticks. I have been reading other posts where people complained about this. I have used all 3 USB locations.
The Genos main display does not show Transponse values when playing. However, i fixed that by bringing it into the main menu.
The Genos main display does not show Bar count. In some cases this is needed. I managed to find a workaround and display bar count now. (already discussed and reported in another post on this forum).
Hope you are having a wonderfull time and enjoy the festivities.
Greetings from Tijuana/San Diego Area.
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Torben
I didn’t make any claim to be comparing it. I clearly explained I have no history with arrangers but gave my views on my fun with the Genos and a score out of 10 overall to help the original poster.
Hi Steve, With all due respect, Torben was right in his comment to you, as I’m afraid your statement doesn’t help me at all really. All you did was tell me how amazing Genos is (but you are not the only one... Eileen did exactly the same thing)! But that’s not what I’m after here, as I’ve already read loads of such comments in other threads. What I want is to hear from those who have actually owned a Tyros 5, and their honest truth (in points out of ten) regarding how much better (or not) they think Genos is than its predecessor. Never mind, glad to see that you are enjoying your Genos.
Kind regards,
Will
P.S. I have just edited my opening post to clearly point out that I only want to hear from those who have actually owned a Tyros 5 prior to acquiring a Genos.
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I had the T5 since it came out, and now I have the Genos also, since came out.....
Genos is Awesome.....!!!! it has so much Headroom on the sound, almost tri-dimentional...The new styles, the revamped styles, and if you want, you could transfer the styles that did not make it into the Preset styles, so, you have the best of the very best.
For me, Genos is a 9.9999999
(I reserve a tiny porcentaje just in case for a future improvement if it is possible).
Manuel
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new PIANO sounds : +0.5
new strings, sa2 cello, sa2 oboe, other new sa2 sounds : +0.75
new ensemble voices : +0.25
arpegiattor: +0.25
drums : +1.25
new styles : +0.5
sliders and real-time possibilities : +0.75
new overall sound quality & effects : +1.25
new os, touch screen, memory management : +0.5
around 6/10 for me
Hi soundphase, Many thanks for taking the time & effort to list all those categories, and to give them their score on an individual basis to make a total score of 6/10 improvement margin over a T5. I hadn’t even thought of it that way!
Kind regards,
Will
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For me personally
I do miss the "CD/Studio-Finished" sound ,that the Tyros 5 provides so easily.
The genos has a more "Chunky" sound , which im trying to Avoid.
as i prefer my Songs , and tunes, to have that " MASTERED " finish
i dont want to sound like a "Bedroom-Demo".
I decided from the beginning never to sell my tyros 5/76
as it was my 1st love, and got me back into music after 25 years,abstinence.
Both boards are a 10 for me
Yamaha are HUGE ! , and know what their doing
some company's haven't got a clue . :P
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A huge thanks to all who have taken the time & effort to respond so far to my little research... some with a detailed analysis/reasons as well as their total score between zero and ten! I find it all a very interesting read; thanks again everyone!
Best wishes,
Will
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A huge thanks to all who have taken the time & effort to respond so far to my little research... some with a detailed analysis/reasons as well as their total score between zero and ten! I find it all a very interesting read; thanks again everyone!
Best wishes,
Will
Hi Will,
It would help a little if we knew what you want to do with the KB and how you use it.
As a gigging musician I need great drums and good base. It is the back bone of a dance song and groove.
The new Genos Revo drums and Bases are just amazing.
If you are a home musician it might be different.
Second: what type of music do you play mostly? Big band? Classic? Standards? Oldies?
I would say the T5 is more than sufficient for that.
I play more modern music. Even though I did not own a T5, I auditioned it many times, but it didn't quite have enough for me.
The Genos on the other hand is a dream machine for modern and 80's music.
I do own a S-970 though which has many features of the T5.
Plus as Manual said: the overall sound is almost like HD sound. Very defined, clear and full.
My T4 almost sounds tiny compared. And I know there wasn't a huge difference to the T5.
I know that wasn't exactly the answer you are looking for, but maybe some food for thought ... ;)
Good luck with your search.
All the best.
Eric
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I’ve owned both T4 and then a T5-76. I upgraded to the T5-76 because I always wanted a 76 key Yamaha arranger T5 did that. What pushed me to the T5 was also the organs and ensemble feature plus the usual great Yamaha styles. During that time I also owned a Pa3x, eventually the Pa4x was released and I purchased one to help finance that Pa4x I sold the T5. In all honesty I got a little tired of the T5 as great a keyboard as it is. From my point of view the Pa4x from Korg was a better machine for my live gigs. Songbook on Korg and the number of physical controls, excellent vocal harmonizer sold me. I guess for the last 7 years I’ve owned both Korg and Yamaha, I love them both, they excel in their own ways, I’m fortunate to be able to own both.
Now on to Genos, I’ll give it a 9.5 as Manuel gave it a 9.9999, for the reason, there’s real possibility that Yamaha will be releasing updates that I’m sure we’ll all like. I absolutely live the Revo drums and re-worked styles. A couple of key factors for moving the Genos:
1. Live Physical Controls
2. Revo Drums
3. A major reason for my 9.5 is the new Playlist feature that mimics the Korg Songbook. For me this feature is the proverbial “goose that laid the golden egg.” Although I used MFD on gigs along with registrations the ability to store registrations is a Playlist is fantastic. Yes I could work registrations from folders for gigs but having the ability to arrange the Playlist in an order of my preference rather than alphabetical order that folders use is a huge feature.
4. I’m sold and have been on touch screens since I owned my first Korg a Pa800.
5. Although the OS is a bit different it still has many of the characteristics of Yamaha arrangers.
I’m not saying I’ll give up my Pa4x but gotta say the thought crossed my mind to sell it after having the Genos for a couple of weeks. My wife who thinks I needed a new arranager like I need a “Hole in the head” was very surprised at the sound. She said wow, this sounds better than any other board you’ve owned.
At gigs in December I got some very positive responses from venues that I have played on a regular basis using both T5 and Pa4x. I’m sold and in my opinion this board was worth the dollars paid.
Will I hope this answers what you were looking for.
Happy New Year everyone!
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3. A major reason for my 9.5 is the new Playlist feature that mimics the Korg Songbook. For me this feature is the proverbial “goose that laid the golden egg.” Although I used MFD on gigs along with registrations the ability to store registrations is a Playlist is fantastic. Yes I could work registrations from folders for gigs but having the ability to arrange the Playlist in an order of my preference rather than alphabetical order that folders use is a huge feature.
Stephen
Just an additional resource for you to try. Since You mentioned that you have Songbook. You can create playlists in SongBook+ instead of the Genos. It is extremely easy to create and then move songs around in any order you want. Then, the playlist is controlled from the iPad and automatically calls the corresponding registration.
You probably are ok with what you are doing. Just to give you another alternative if desired.
thanks
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Hi soundphase, Many thanks for taking the time & effort to list all those categories, and to give them their score on an individual basis to make a total score of 6/10 improvement margin over a T5. I hadn’t even thought of it that way!
Kind regards,
Will
Hi Will
Happy new year !
I thought it helps you to understand what I consider as a major or minor improvement (but it’s my personal way to use the Genos). I didn’t regret at all the change and it could have been considered as a « 10 ». But I think 10 would be a revolution and Genos is only a main Tyros evolution.
It would have been more than 6, if there were new edition tools for example. Styles are better but are less generalist. And it’s always difficult to edit them because the style creator tool is not very powerful and Yamaha doesn’t allow us to edit all tracks.
Regards
Soundphase
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At gigs in December I got some very positive responses from venues that I have played on a regular basis using both T5 and Pa4x. I’m sold and in my opinion this board was worth the dollars paid.
Hi Steve
I am still hanging on my Genos decision - I was hoping Yamaha would have come out with a newly designed OS but I am unsure about it - now of course this is all very personal and I fully respect all the views and reviews here. What frustrated me with my Tyros was its poor control surface with regard to performing/recording-live and from reading the Genos manual it looks like little has changed since the Tyros. (Just a couple of examples:- things like convenient bass inversion switching during a song and tempo locking for ease of style switching during a song (just 2 of my issues) and no "fingered" mode to support 1/2/3/4/5 note chords e.g. play a full major with just one key or with 2 or 3 or 4 etc... most other brands of arrangers have this - I don't believe Genos does.
As I said, this is purely personal and not a criticism of the the Genos or Yamaha.
Would appreciate your views...
Thanks
Pete :)
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Hi Pete
"and no "fingered" mode to support 1/2/3/4/5 note chords e.g. play a full major with just one key or with 2 or 3 or 4 etc... most other brands of arrangers have this - I don't believe Genos does."
Genos and all Yamaha arranger keyboards have the ability to play major,minor,major 7th and minor 7th chords using single finger mode,in full fingered mode the player has the ability to form many more chord types.
Maybe I have not fully understood your meaning,but perhaps you would be best to read the Genos reference manual,it explains fully all the chord fingering modes.
Alan
[attachment deleted by admin]
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My 10 points go to the Genos for giving me more and better
possibilities to be creative .
Happy New Year !
When you have a Genos and found out how everything works which
will take some hours you will see how good this instrument is .
I expect a good 2018 with my Genos and I hope many of you will
do the same .
MarkZ.
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Hi Steve
I am still hanging on my Genos decision - I was hoping Yamaha would have come out with a newly designed OS but I am unsure about it - now of course this is all very personal and I fully respect all the views and reviews here. What frustrated me with my Tyros was its poor control surface with regard to performing/recording-live and from reading the Genos manual it looks like little has changed since the Tyros. (Just a couple of examples:- things like convenient bass inversion switching during a song and tempo locking for ease of style switching during a song (just 2 of my issues) and no "fingered" mode to support 1/2/3/4/5 note chords e.g. play a full major with just one key or with 2 or 3 or 4 etc... most other brands of arrangers have this - I don't believe Genos does.
As I said, this is purely personal and not a criticism of the the Genos or Yamaha.
Would appreciate your views...
Thanks
Pete :)
You can certainly play a full major chord with just one key in Fingered mode. Also, I have no trouble maintaining the tempo when switching styles. I do it with registrations, but if you switch manually, there’s a Parameter you can set to hold the tempo.
You should have asked your questions long ago.
Fred
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You should have asked your questions long ago.
I quite agree Fred. And no disrespect to Pete, but perhaps it would have been better placed in another thread as well, as the intended purposes of this one is to directly evaluate the level of improvements Genos may have over the T5. Of course, a lot of ‘straying off-topic’ happens in most threads, but it just muddles things up eventually I reckon. ;)
Regards,
Will
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I Had Tyros 5 since it first came out and as I said to me Genos for me is better all round. Once you get used ti the small differences it is a joy to play so I stick by my 10.
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Hi Will Happy new year !
I thought it helps you to understand what I consider as a major or minor improvement…
Hi Soundphase, Happy New Year to you too! What you did was more than I had expected, and you understood exactly what I was after! And not only did you give me your total score of how much of an improvement (for you) Genos is over the T5… you also provided a detailed account of how you arrived at your total score! The purpose of this thread was meant ONLY to compare T5 and Genos (and not for discussing just one or the other on their own). However, it seems to me that one or two other posters have given a score based on how good they feel about Genos on its own (i.e. those who’ve given it points that are in the region of 9.99 and a full 10)! Therefore (as this thread is all about the 'comparison' of two items), seeing scores of 10 for Genos would seem to put the already fabulous T5 at a ZERO! :o
Kind regards,
Will
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I apologise if my opinion isn't valid, as I never owned a T5. I had a T2 and then a T4. However, if my score over a T4 counts then I give the Genos 1/10.
I think too many people are either on Yamaha's payroll, easily influenced by them or are in denial because of the amount of money they've spent.
I give Genos a 1/10 improvement over a T4 because some voices are the best I've heard (Kino strings, Flugelhorn etc.). The majority of voices however are no better or in some cases worse than the T4 and so I assume the T5. Unless you spend more money on a decent speaker set then the Genos completely lacks in body and there is very little warmth to it. It was clearly designed to appeal to the younger market and so perhaps in that respect, it's an improvement, but from my wants and perspective it gets a mere 1/10.
I imagine that if you put a T5 (maybe even a T4) and a Genos side by side with a professional musician, the vast majority of people here would be pushed to tell the difference... which in your comparison would give a score of 0/10 I believe. However, I am making allowance in my score for a few improved voices and the REVO drums.
Sorry if this isn't valid as I'm comparing it to a T4.
Regards,
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Hi Will, It would help a little if we knew what you want to do with the KB and how you use it.
Hi Eric, I’m a non-gigging/home musician. My tastes in music are Ballroom, Country, Latin etc., Big band/light Jazz and anything of the ‘easy listening’ nature… and certainly NOT the modern, electronic stuff I’m afraid! I make a lot of use of my T5/76’s Organ World and Ensemble features…which I think are superb!
Kind regards,
Will
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I apologise if my opinion isn't valid, as I never owned a T5. I had a T2 and then a T4. However, if my score over a T4 counts then I give the Genos 1/10.
I think too many people are either on Yamaha's payroll, easily influenced by them or are in denial because of the amount of money they've spent.
I give Genos a 1/10 improvement over a T4 because some voices are the best I've heard (Kino strings, Flugelhorn etc.). The majority of voices however are no better or in some cases worse than the T4 and so I assume the T5. Unless you spend more money on a decent speaker set then the Genos completely lacks in body and there is very little warmth to it. It was clearly designed to appeal to the younger market and so perhaps in that respect, it's an improvement, but from my wants and perspective it gets a mere 1/10.
I imagine that if you put a T5 (maybe even a T4) and a Genos side by side with a professional musician, the vast majority of people here would be pushed to tell the difference... which in your comparison would give a score of 0/10 I believe. However, I am making allowance in my score for a few improved voices and the REVO drums.
Sorry if this isn't valid as I'm comparing it to a T4.
Hi DavidB, Absolutely no apology needed at all. I also had a T4, and there is a lot of that model still in the T5 (which isn’t a bad thing where I’m concerned) so, yes, your opinion is considered valid by me. I also thank you for being so frank and completely open with your views. I think you are correct with your statement that some people (but obviously not all) may be a little in denial as a result of what they spent and/or are too afraid to give Genos a lowly score in the face of such formidable opposition?! Your other statement, i.e. that Genos seems to have been designed/aimed for the younger market is something I suspected way back when I saw the first few glimpses of Genos in those very early videos. I would have no use for such features I’m afraid! Many thanks again for such a candid response!
Best wishes, and a Happy New Year,
Will
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I had a T5 and sold it to buy the Genos. If you had asked me to rate it a week ago, when I had only had it for a few days, it would have got 5 out of 10. Since then I have tweaked the sound in the mixer and I am playing through a Yamaha Stagepas 500 which I use for gigging and the difference is amazing. Now I rate it 9 out of 10. The sounds are much more alive than on the T5 and the rhythms seem more natural. There is a crispness which was missing on the T5. I still have more to learn about the Genos as I found it quite different from the T5, especially dealing with the Playlist. I'm getting there bit by bit, though. I also appreciate that it's lighter than my T5-76 as I'm not getting any younger.
Cheers,
Graeme
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...
However, it seems to me that one or two other posters have given a score based on how good they feel about Genos on its own (i.e. those who’ve given it points that are in the region of 9.99 and a full 10)!
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Hi
Guess they forgot to turn off the "Auto-Reply" function... ;D ;D
Jørgen
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Maybe I have not fully understood your meaning,but perhaps you would be best to read the Genos reference manual,it explains fully all the chord fingering modes.
Hi Alan - thanks very much for responding. I was referring to intelligent fingering (not the simple "mechanical" single fingered mode)
Examples:
play "C" or "C & E" or "C & E & G" to play a full Cmaj style accompaniment.
play "C & Eb" or "C & Eb & G" to play a full Cm style accompaniment
etc..etc..
The manuals (Tyros too) refer to AI fingering as means to "sort of" do this but it definitely doesn't work quite that way - I don't believe the Genos is different.
I hear you say "...just learn your triads and all will be fine..." ;) and you'd be right but I am not a good fast keyboard player and sometimes I like to take advantage of a quick (lazy) means of changing chords which has mostly been available on Roland, Ketron and Korg arrangers.
Thanks again for your reply.
Pete :)
APOLOGIES - I went a bit off topic here :(
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Hi Will;
I certainly would not put Tyros 5 at Zero. It is still a very good keyboard in all respects. Genos how ever in some respects is a different animal and has a lot of improvements on it. OTS being one. It is now a lot better balanced and useable. The styles seem more realistic and voicing much improved. The play list is very good and what people have been asking for for a very long time. I am very pleased I changed mine but we all go for what suits us best. Just enjoy making music on what ever you have.
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I certainly would not put Tyros 5 at Zero.
Amen! I'm migrating to Genos from S950, so I have refrained from giving any kind of rating vs. the Tyros 5. Yes, I have played a T5 although I do not own one.
Quite a few of the Genos voices that I prefer were introduced in Tyros 5. T5 is a very respectable, professional instrument!
All the best in the new year -- pj
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Hi Will,
Is the Genos better than a TS? Yes ...by far! (And I am not on ‘auto reply function’). The two keyboards are different in many ways, I didn’t want or expect the Genos to emulate the T5, the Genos is a different board and getting even better the more I am getting familiar with it. I like the live controlls, assignable buttons ( chord tutor is great by the way!) and the more modern sounds but the deal breaker for me is the feel of the key bed!!! I thought the T5 keyboard was really good but the Genos is undoubtably better, seemingly better finger friction, and easier on the fingers when switching from piano to organ to synths sounds There are many other satisfactory points which wins over the T5 but I don’t want to bore everyone on this thread so I will stop here.
To be honest my transition from my T5 to a new Genos was easy for me...mainly because I always part exchange all my instruments. I guess if I had to pay full price for a Genos - this would have been too pricey and reluctantly I would have kept to my T5 and maybe bought a Genos at later date. However when I had my T5 (for about 2.5 years) sometimes I got a wee bit bored with it and just switched it off almost immediately after turning it on .. I don’t know why! I was really never happy with the silver colour and the overall size of it ..but don’t get me wrong ..still a great KB. At the time I found myself trying other keyboards at local music stores. I was however quite stricken by the Kronos 2 88 but when I tried one out this last summer ..the keybed just felt awful so I retreated back to my T5. Then the Genos came along ..the rest is history.
One very important point I have to make (in my opinion) is to release the full sound potential of the Genos - consider going for better speakers and not the Genos set ( I had a Genos set with the px), I have HS5 monitors along with the HS7 sub woofer, I don’t hear the sound ..I feel it! And when my wife starts shouting at me to from another room downstairs..I guess she can hear and feel it too ;) The Yamaha HS monitor speakers will stay with me for a long time and should I upgrade to a Genos 2 ..or maybe G3 .. maybe miss the G2 out all together - my expenditure on speakers will work out cheaper in the long run.
My score is 8 out of 10. I am really not surfing the Yamaha Genos bandwagon..I am really honestly excited about the Genos :) and the sounds are the best I have ever heard ..and I have had many keyboards through my life.
All the best Will, I know you will enjoy your T576 at this time.
Happy new year to all.
Regards
Darren
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Listen very carefully , I say it just one more time ......
10 points for my Genos .
And yes .... I had a Tyros 5 , a superior instrument already !
MarkZ.
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Listen very carefully , I say it just one more time ......
10 points for my Genos .
And yes .... I had a Tyros 5 , a superior instrument already !
MarkZ.
Hi
It would be nice if you could give a more detailed description of how you have come to your assessment. ;) ;)
Jørgen
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Listen very carefully , I say it just one more time ...... 10 points for my Genos . And yes .... I had a Tyros 5
Hi MarkZ, Afraid you still haven't got the gist of what this topic is all about! You say that you now have a Genos, and that you're giving it 10 out of 10. You also say that you previously had a T5... but what you don't say how many points you think the T5 was worth if you compare it to your Genos!! So I shall say this one more time too... this thread is about comparing the two arrangers, and preferably mark them BOTH with a score of anything from zero to 10! ;) ;D
Regards,
Will
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Stephen
Just an additional resource for you to try. Since You mentioned that you have Songbook. You can create playlists in SongBook+ instead of the Genos. It is extremely easy to create and then move songs around in any order you want. Then, the playlist is controlled from the iPad and automatically calls the corresponding registration.
You probably are ok with what you are doing. Just to give you another alternative if desired.
thanks
Al thanks for what is a great idea. 8) I am using Songbook Plus now and will use your suggestion. Just as a side note the Songbook I wrote about was the one on the Korg arrangers, they are Korg’s equivalent of Yamaha registrations.
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I was really never happy with the silver colour and the overall size of it ..but don’t get me wrong ..still a great KB.
My score is 8 out of 10. All the best Will, I know you will enjoy your T576 at this time. Happy new year to all.
Hi Darren, Many thanks for your response...a lot of what you said made very interesting reading. But I've included above only a couple of quotes from your response... the first being about the colour and size of T5. It's a funny old world isn't it! For me, silver is my preference for an arranger... doesn't show tiny bits of dust as much as black. And as a home player, I quite like the fact that T5/76 is a bit on the large size as (for me, personally) bigger is better! I reckon the bigger an instrument is, the less chance there is for it to be mistaken (by those who don't know better) for something that belongs in the 'toy world' of keyboards! ;D Thanks for including your overall points score for Genos. And, yes, I am really enjoying my T5/76 thanks.
Happy New Year,
Will
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Hi Will; I certainly would not put Tyros 5 at Zero. It is still a very good keyboard in all respects. Genos how ever in some respects is a different animal and has a lot of improvements on it. OTS being one. It is now a lot better balanced and useable. The styles seem more realistic and voicing much improved. The play list is very good and what people have been asking for for a very long time. I am very pleased I changed mine but we all go for what suits us best. Just enjoy making music on what ever you have.
Hi Eileen, Now this is more like the response I'm after. You already said previously that, for you, Genos gets a score of 10 out of 10, and now you have explained some of the areas where you feel the most improvements over Tyros 5 are. I'm pleased to see that you also say that T5 is "still a very good keyboard in all respects". And as for your advice to just enjoy making music on whatever I have, well, I certainly am enjoying doing exactly that on my T5/76... so much so that I was intrigued as regards how much better Genos could possibly be than a T5 - hence this very thread! Thanks Eileen... nice to see you are enjoying your Genos! :)
Best wishes,
Will
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"still a very good keyboard in all respects"
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Hi Will
FYI:
Here is Eileens Tyros 5 judgement from 23. November 2013: http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,22803.msg161780.html#msg161780
Jørgen
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Hi Will
FYI:
Here is Eileens Tyros 5 judgement from 23. November 2013: http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,22803.msg161780.html#msg161780
Jørgen
It really helps to have "critical thinking skills"... now doesn't it?
;)
Joe H
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Very interesting link Jorgen ... The T4/T5 debates were eerily similar to the T5/Genos ones we're now seeing ...
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Will, I think different people are interpreting your rules differently and some of the rankings being given are apples versus oranges. People who state Genos is worth a ten seem to readily admit Ty5 is still a formidable keyboard, so really they should be subtracting their honest ranking of Ty5 from the 10 to comply with your request. And probably get a more realistic (for you) result. As it stands it's all very confusing ::).
John
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It really depends on how the Genos owners perceive the scale of improvement of Genos compared to Tyros5.
0 1 2 3 4 . . . X . . . . . . . . . Y 10 <- Relative scale of performance, with X for T5, and Y for Genos?
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 <- Relative scale of improvement, with Tyros 5 as base value 0.
T5 Genos
Great Greater
Thanks,
Paul
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Hi Will
I presume you are adding up the scores for Genos and will arrive at an average score eventually,are you surprised at the answers given or no ?
I think you are asking a very subjective question,given you have had scores from 1 to 10 ! 😀
Members are bound to give a high score if they like and enjoy playing the Genos,even if they think it is not a large improvement over the T5.
How many replies are you aiming for to arrive at an average,if that is your intention?
Alan
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Well Jorgen,
Each Yamaha keyboard I have had has had large improvments on it so nothing new there. I will say that Ensemlbe really dose sound a lot better on Genos and also Organ World which is now incorperated in the organ voices.
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Well Eileen
Yes, I totally agree that all new models have improvements. What I'm looking for is: What do you judge Tyros 5 to today on a scale from 1 to 10?
In November 2013, Tyros 5 was "mind blowing" - your wording -, which must be 10 on the 2013 scale.
Tyros 5 can not be judged to 10 today if Genos is judged to 10 and Genos is considered to be better than Tyros 5.
Now, is Tyros 5 = 8 (Genos is 25% better than Tyros 5)
or is Tyros 5 = 6.66 (Genos is 50% better than Tyros 5)
or is Tyros 5 = 5 (Genos is 100% better than Tyros 5)
I think it's also the comparison that Will calls for.
Jørgen
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Genos is all most perfect. So that´s a 9.
Tyros 5 is still a very good instrument. So that´s a 7.
And its expected that there will be a few content patches in the future.
So the Genos will become even more complete.
Almost every little bit of the Tyros 5 got improved with the Genos.
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Very interesting link Jorgen ... The T4/T5 debates were eerily similar to the T5/Genos ones we're now seeing ...
Indeed, deja vu. And as far as I'm concerned the same goes for the Yamaha demo's... "simply amaaaaaaazing". ;)
regards,
Peter
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Tyros 5 is still an superior Arranger but the Genos offers me more ;
New and better Drums and what is the most important here
the better and more easy Drum Edit .
The far more easy Style Assembly and once more important here
the Drum Edit .
The new Drums and Drum Edit makes very much possible for the
MultiPads , specally for making your own MultiPads .
The new MultiPads .
The Arpeggiator with all the possibilities in Sound changing .
The Arpeggiator in combination with the MultiPads .
The new and better Sounds with new and better Effects .
The Effects are easy to edit .
The 10 Registration buttons ( The Tyros 5 had 8 ) .
The 2 new buttons could be used to create new extra Registrations
with the Arpeggiator .
These are some items which make me a happy Genos user ,
there are more but this should be enough for today .
These improvements make me giving 10 to the Genos .
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Dear friends
we are going around in circles here ... :)
I guess the best way you could ask the question, that would satisfy the survey, could be: How many percent better do you think that the Genos is - compared to the Tyros 5? :-X
For instance:
0% - they are equally good
100% - Genos is double as good as Tyros 5 ...
My personal opinion is 40 to 50%
My 50 cents ...
Torben
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I think too many people are either on Yamaha's payroll, easily influenced by them or are in denial because of the amount of money they've spent.
I imagine that if you put a T5 (maybe even a T4) and a Genos side by side with a professional musician, the vast majority of people here would be pushed to tell the difference..
Regards,
I said this very same thing over a month ago, and got a verbal smackdown from Bachus, of all people.
We humans are always looking for the latest fad, or Guru, or Messiah to follow, to be part of the "IN" crowd.
Currently it's the Genos.
You may get some honest unbiased comparisons, but many others will just offer a knee jerk reaction, even when you explain over and over, the motive for this comparison test.
I treasure a movie by Monty Python, called "The Life Of Brian."
I recommend this movie to anyone who has never seen it.
And for those who have seen it, a rerun now and then wouldn't hurt.
It shows, in true Monty Python style, our human fallibilities, and the lengths we would go to, to defend our beliefs.
Best Regards,
Pianoman.
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I treasure a movie by Monty Python, called "The Life Of Brian."
Right on, Pianoman.
Follow the gourd! Follow the shoe! Pretty much summarizes many discussions on the Web. ;)
Meanwhile, I'm just playin' this thang... :D
Stay happy in the new year -- pj
P.S. Well, I just had an epiphany. Playing Junior Walker's "What Does It Take" with the new FunkAltoSax. I rest my case. Pianoman, I can't wait to hear you rock this. :)
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Hi everyone,
John (jwyvern in Reply #49) said “Will, I think different people are interpreting your rules differently and some of the rankings being given are apples versus oranges. As it stands it's all very confusing”. Yes, I agree… things have got a bit more complicated than I had expected! My reason for having started such a survey in the first place was the result of the sheer joy I’m currently experiencing with my recently acquired T5/76.. and thinking how could anything (or more to the point, the Genos) possibly be better than it! And if that was, indeed, possible… then by HOW much. Hence the scale of zero to 10 points. And it seemed at the time that I wasn’t alone in my assumption that it was a simple enough method, as Alan (Reply #4) said: “You ask a very interesting question” and “A good post Will”.
However, it seems that not everyone has quite understood what I wanted to know (which has resulted in bit of confusion). The majority, on the other hand, have given me exactly what I was looking for. Some have taken a slightly different angle (but equally as helpful) by giving both T5 and Genos a score (0-10) in terms of excellence. For example, Spirit of the old South (Reply #54) says: “Genos is almost perfect. So that´s a 9. Tyros 5 is still a very good instrument. So that´s a 7”. Another poster who even went ‘over the call of duty’ was Soundphase (Reply #10), who supplied a detailed account of how he had arrived at his total score of 6/10 improvement margin over a T5!
So I’d like to say a big Thank You to all who have participated in this little survey so far (but continue by all means if you feel you have more to add). I’m now beginning to get a little picture of how much of an improvement the Genos (REALLY) is over my T5. But let’s just say for the moment that the way I perceive that ‘picture’ is that my T5/76 is pretty tight on Genos’ heels..... in the areas/features that interests me. I may, therefore, be hanging on to it a while longer than the 18-24 months originally specified! :)
Regards,
Will
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Ditto here Will :)
regards,
Peter
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+6
+1 touch screen
+2: 1.8 GB sampling
+3: Internal ram (no extra spending money for external ram)
+4: Joystick
+5: 10 Register Memory buttons
+6: Mono-Legato
-1 : No deep style creator on-board or in YEM
-2 : No 61-key
-3: DRUM EDITOR missing external samples importing
-4: No DRUM EDITOR in song creator.
I am vaiting for OS update but Generally I am very happy with my GENOS
Regards
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Hi Will49, to my opinion you made a fair summary. Certainly there will be some difference amongst the home-players and the gig-players. For me, as a homeplayer, the T5 is a fantastic instrument. Maybe, maybe .. once the Genos 2 is on the market, then it will be early enough to reconsider things. But in the coming 3/4 years I wil enjoy what I have. And the Genos-owners will enjoy their keyboards. And the Tyros 1,2,3,4 will enjoy theirs, as the PSR's do like theirs. So: everybody is a happy keyboardist ;)
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I’ve had a Tyros 2,4,5 & Genos. Tyros 5-10 points, Genos 7 points. Genos gone now back to Tyros 5 it suits me better for a variety of reasons
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a big 5 (as a neutral point)
Genos is better on sound quality, but I miss many feature from T5, and the OS problems on genos are a big problem....
if the new firmware, solve all the problems it became from 5 to 10...
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Hi
Sound quality and Sys Ex compatibility is 100%
Get a pair of quality speakers £1000 Yamaha DXR 8's and you get concert level quality
A little fan noise from speakers , but as soon as you play that disappears into the sunset.
If you do mixing , get a pair of studio monitors.
I reckon the outlay will save you pounds In the long run of changing those tin pot Genos speakers everytime a new model comes out.
I had a hum issue with these speakers as they are over the top In wattage, but as the amps are quality ,the low volume is unbelievable.Just a matter of fine tuning.
To get rid of that hum a basic Behringer hum destroyer from Amazon got rid of that completely.
Connecting speakers like these require Instrument cables from Genos to Behringer hum destroyer and speaker cables from there to speakers.
I think computers cause a ground loop with music gear.
Now I have had the experience of this quality and the help of others which I appreciate this is the way to go for massive quality.
So with what I have said ,go for it ,you will not look back.
all the best
John
Ps The worse thing for me Is finding your way around a new keyboard as a lot of things are in different places and terminology.
At last the SYS EX messages are compatible and all sliders and knobs can be used on soft synths In your daw. It Is just a matter of pressing midi learn and the sliders and knobs are yours to use as control.
Still learning.
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John, you can get rid of the ground loop computer hum very easily by merely purchasing an inexpensive Ground Defeater Plug at any hardware store. Worked perfectly for me.
(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/14442316?wid=1560&hei=1560&fmt=pjpeg)
Good luck,
Gary 8)
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Well I must be in a minority here because I use my Genos speakers for my home use and find them very good. With adjustment to EQ's and Compressor have a sound that suits me very well. Of course when gigging I use a separate mixer and larger speakers but far to much for at home.
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Well I must be in a minority here because I use my Genos speakers for my home use and find them very good. With adjustment to EQ's and Compressor have a sound that suits me very well. Of course when gigging I use a separate mixer and larger speakers but far to much for at home.
I put mine back in their box in the attic. Using a pair of near field studio monitors is the way, albeit expensive, to go. The sound improves drastically.