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PSR Keyboards (11 Boards) => PSR-S970/S770/S670 (SFF2) => Topic started by: Enildo on August 25, 2017, 12:18:44 PM

Title: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on August 25, 2017, 12:18:44 PM
Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?

Hello guys!
Here in Brazil I woke up today with the news of this video.
A guy made guitar loops play with chord changes as well as with changing the loop time without stopping and without damaging the chord.

If it's true, I think I'll keep my s970 for about 20 years! Lol
I do not even want the "Genos"! Lol

Enildo

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPHGZnCLess
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on August 26, 2017, 01:14:07 PM
Anyone know how it's possible?
I'm studying and investigating but so far I have not got it yet.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on August 27, 2017, 06:49:49 PM
Personally I discovered that they use the "CASM Editor" to leave one channel of the guitar only for larger chords and the other channel for smaller chords only.
Does anyone who manages editing know how this is possible.

I will only rest when I learn! Lol
Thank you all!

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on August 27, 2017, 07:50:50 PM
Personally I discovered that they use the "CASM Editor" to leave one channel of the guitar only for larger chords and the other channel for smaller chords only.
Does anyone who manages editing know how this is possible.

I will only rest when I learn! Lol
Thank you all!

Enildo

I don't think it is that complicated.  He is just turning style parts on and off and he also changed the tempo.  There are plenty of styles with guitar parts in them. It is possible to make style parts from the guitar Multi Pad as well.  Then you could buy Guitar loops from Twiddly Bits and turn those into style guitar parts as well using midi2style or StyleMagic.

Joe H
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on August 28, 2017, 06:07:01 PM
I don't think it is that complicated.  He is just turning style parts on and off and he also changed the tempo.  There are plenty of styles with guitar parts in them. It is possible to make style parts from the guitar Multi Pad as well.  Then you could buy Guitar loops from Twiddly Bits and turn those into style guitar parts as well using midi2style or StyleMagic.

Joe H

Thank you Joe H! I already expected your help. I know that this forum has many people qualified and you, of course, are one of them.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on August 28, 2017, 06:34:32 PM
First, I sincerely apologize for my poor English. I'm using the Google Translate tool.
The information I have at the moment, let's go there:

1) First all major chord loops are recorded on a real guitar
  (C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab, A, A#/Bb and B).

2) As all the minor chord loops on a real guitar are recorded
(Cm, C#m/Dbm, Dm, D#m/Ebm, E, F, F#m/Gbm, Gm, G#m/Abm, Am, A#m/Bbm and Bm).

3) In the "CASM EDITOR PROGRAM", a style in the "SFF1" format and in the "CASM EDITOR", in the "CHORDE MUTE SETTINGS" in the "C" button, a channel (Chord1 for example) is used only for major chords and other channel (Chord2 for example), only to minor chords.

4) When a major chord plays (on channel 12, for example), the other minor chord channel (channel 13, for example) is muted. And vice versa.

My question is:
How can I put 12 larger chord loops and 12 smaller chord loops within the same style?
How does the keyboard end up which loop to use at the time I am playing a chord of "E" (Em) or "A" (Am), for example?

I hope I expressed myself well.

Thank you Joe H and thank you all!

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on August 28, 2017, 06:53:55 PM
First, I sincerely apologize for my poor English. I'm using the Google Translate tool.
The information I have at the moment, let's go there:

1) First all major chord loops are recorded on a real guitar
  (C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab, A, A#/Bb and B).

2) As all the minor chord loops on a real guitar are recorded
(Cm, C#m/Dbm, Dm, D#m/Ebm, E, F, F#m/Gbm, Gm, G#m/Abm, Am, A#m/Bbm and Bm).

3) In the "CASM EDITOR PROGRAM", a style in the "SFF1" format and in the "CASM EDITOR", in the "CHORDE MUTE SETTINGS" in the "C" button, a channel (Chord1 for example) is used only for major chords and other channel (Chord2 for example), only to minor chords.

4) When a major chord plays (on channel 12, for example), the other minor chord channel (channel 13, for example) is muted. And vice versa.

My question is:
How can I put 12 larger chord loops and 12 smaller chord loops within the same style?
How does the keyboard end up which loop to use at the time I am playing a chord of "E" (Em) or "A" (Am), for example?

I hope I expressed myself well.

Thank you Joe H and thank you all!

Enildo

I was wondering when we use "RECYCLE" to loop, and when we export beyond the loop it generates a "MIDI" file.
And this midi file, we know it can be turned into a style channel.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on August 28, 2017, 08:51:31 PM
Enildo,

I have no experience with programming guitar chords for styles, but I think you are looking at this wrong.  You might want to look at a Yamaha style that has guitar chords or arpeggios to see what notes are used.  The keyboard Operating System will translate the notes (when correct) to follow the left hand chords.  Also the CASM settings must be right.

I may not be able to you help you with this because I do not use CASM Editor, I use StyleMagic.  Hopefully one the the computer programmers will post here to help you understand what notes to use in the loops.

I also do understand what you mean by larger and smaller loops.  And finally... no you cannot have 12 variations of loops in a single style file because there are only 16 channels to work with. 

The way Alternate style Parts work is that the chord types are defined in the CASM.  So a Part can play a chord or arpeggio one way with a major chord, and play a different way with a minor chord.

Example:  Chord 1 Part (channel 12) can play the chord a certain way for major chords (maybe strum a certain way - long chord?), then assign channel 4 to also to play the Chord 1 Part for minor chords (and chord strums a different way - short chord?)

So channel 12 and channel 4 can both be assigned to Chord 1 style Part, but each one will only play with the chord types you specify in the CASM settings.  It's actually possible to have 3 chord types.  Major, Minor, and 7th chords.  so you could have 3 different channels assigned to Chord 1 style Part for more variation.

The information I cannot help with is what the correct notes are for these guitar loops.  When the correct notes are programmed in the loop, the Operating System will re-map the notes to the correct guitar fingering.  That's why I suggest looking a a Yamaha style to learn how Yamaha did it.

Regards,
Joe H

Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on August 28, 2017, 09:57:16 PM
Thank you Joe H! Your information is very valuable.
I will continue searching until I find a light.

Thanks for all the information and tips also to the creators and directors of this forum.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on August 29, 2017, 01:19:47 PM
Hello everybody!
I found another video with the same subject.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L419Hty6XVQ

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: tyrosaurus on August 29, 2017, 01:59:27 PM
Have you seen this video, which seems to give a similar effect using one of the various sounds within preset guitar MegaVoices.

In this example he is using the 'Mega SolidGuitar' voice at a fixed velocity of 40, which would produce an 'open med' string sound.  The video  contains information about the CASM settings used...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tomCFY-HKPY

Presumably the original video is using an expansion voice made from real guitar samples, which is then used in a similar manner as here.  :-\

Regards

Ian
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on August 29, 2017, 02:41:03 PM
Very good video Ian! I learned other Megavoices tricks.
Thank you so!

But my question in this post is about "Audio Loops".
In the loop recording the chord is already filled (Do-Mi-Sol).
The guys are recording a loop of all live chords, from C to B, and placing to play on the chord channels (Chord 12 or 13, etc.).

For those who have Facebook, take a look at this video: https://www.facebook.com/DINIZINHOSAMPLERS/videos/1272502872860487/

Big hug,

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on August 29, 2017, 03:32:59 PM
Enildo,

Since I don't know what the guy in the first video is saying, I'm not sure what it is you wish to accomplish. This is the first time you mention audio loops. 

You cannot place audio loops on MIDI channels unless they are REX2 files. The REX2 files have to be converted in YEM software to a style Part. 

The arranger is NOT a DAW (digital audio workstation).  It does not work like a DAW. What I'm saying is that you cannot insert audio loops that are recorded with different chord progressions into a style.  Our arranger are MIDI instruments not audio.  There are MIDI guitar loops out there that will accomplish what you want to do.

PS:  I've sent you a PM.  I'll be back in touch.

Regards,
Joe H
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on August 29, 2017, 03:48:45 PM
Enildo,

Since I don't know what the guy in the first video is saying, I'm not sure what it is you wish to accomplish. This is the first time you mention audio loops. 

You cannot place audio loops on MIDI channels unless they are REX2 files. The REX2 files have to be converted in YEM software to a style Part. 

The arranger is NOT a DAW (digital audio workstation).  It does not work like a DAW. What I'm saying is that you cannot insert audio loops that are recorded with different chord progressions into a style.  Our arranger are MIDI instruments not audio.  There are MIDI guitar loops out there that will accomplish what you want to do.

PS:  I've sent you a PM.  I'll be back in touch.

Regards,
Joe H

Hello Joe H!

That's what I'm talking about, Joe! Maybe I can not express myself well, because my English is very bad.

Guys are putting audio loops on Bass, Chord1, Chord2, Pad and Phrases. Maybe they are using "REX2" files and using some "Midi" file to run the styles.
In this last video (from Facebook) shows them recording the audio loops on a real guitar and then putting to run on the PSR s970.

Thank you,
Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on August 29, 2017, 03:55:26 PM
I modified the title of this post for better understanding.
 "Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?"

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on September 24, 2017, 08:48:11 PM
Hello everybody!

After 1 month studying the subject, I discovered how it is possible to put audio chord loops within the chord chords in s970, with chord progression. There are several steps, and for that to be possible, some programs are necessary.
The truth is that it is limited and can not do all the possible possibilities of chords, because each channel works for one type of chord (for example one channel for larger chords, one for minor chords only, one for chord with "Maj7" , etc) but you can do a lot of interesting things. You can choose both "wav" files as well as "Rx2" files.
You can record chords ready and when you make chord changes in your left hand, the keyboard will change.
I am still finalizing the studies, but "yes" it is possible!

Greetings,
Enildo
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: voodoo on September 25, 2017, 02:36:15 PM
Since I don't know what the guy in the first video is saying, I'm not sure what it is you wish to accomplish. This is the first time you mention audio loops. 

This was my first reaction. The video does not use audio loops, but simple midi guitar. So there's no magic. ;)
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on September 25, 2017, 02:41:28 PM
This was my first reaction. The video does not use audio loops, but simple midi guitar. So there's no magic. ;)

You're wrong Uli. The video uses audio loops.
I'm telling the truth and I assure you so!

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on September 25, 2017, 03:19:59 PM
You're wrong Uli. The video uses audio loops.
I'm telling the truth and I assure you so!

Enildo

Enildo,

Our style file is MIDI.  It is not possible to use audio files directly in a style Part.  You must use YEM to create a MIDI Voice from a WAV file or REX2 file.  Those are the facts.

Joe H
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on September 25, 2017, 03:54:45 PM
Enildo,

Our style file is MIDI.  It is not possible to use audio files directly in a style Part.  You must use YEM to create a MIDI Voice from a WAV file or REX2 file.  Those are the facts.

Joe H

Exactly Joe!
I use a full chord, for example "C" (do + mi + sol) that was recorded with the metronome at 90 bpm ... Then I go to the YEM and create a voice with all the chords made. Each key will correspond to a major or minor chord (C, C #, D, D #, E ... B
  and Cm, C # m, Dm, D # m, Em ... Bm). The chord channels (from 11 to 16) will play my full chord in a style with 90bpm tempo.
Using Rx2 files it is possible to change the time.
You can play larger and smaller chords with progression.

Later I will do a "PPI" file and I will send it to you!

I do not know if I'm making you understand. Lol

Regards,
Enildo
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on September 25, 2017, 04:03:09 PM
Exactly Joe!
I use a full chord, for example "C" (do + mi + sol) that was recorded with the metronome at 90 bpm ... Then I go to the YEM and create a voice with all the chords made. Each key will correspond to a major or minor chord (C, C #, D, D #, E ... B
  and Cm, C # m, Dm, D # m, Em ... Bm). The chord channels (from 11 to 16) will play my full chord in a style with 90bpm tempo.
Using Rx2 files it is possible to change the time.
You can play larger and smaller chords with progression.

Later I will do a "PPI" file and I will send it to you!

I do not know if I'm making you understand. Lol

Regards,
Enildo

I honestly do not see the benefit of doing things that way since the MIDI Parts follow our ACMP left-hand chords.

Joe H
Title: Re: Real Guitar Loops on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on September 25, 2017, 04:07:42 PM
I honestly do not see the benefit of doing things that way since the MIDI Parts follow our ACMP left-hand chords.

Joe H

The benefit would be to put an actual musical instrument within a style.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on September 25, 2017, 04:11:33 PM
Honestly, it's a lot of work. But nothing in life is free!
Guitars and guitars have always been a challenge for keyboards arrangers to emulate. This is a possibility, still limited, but that can brighten up a very live presentation.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on September 25, 2017, 04:14:11 PM
I'm going to put together a "PPF" and a "PPI" and then I'll send you Joe, to find out what you think.
I'm just finishing the job in a few days!

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on September 25, 2017, 04:18:06 PM
I think the topic of realistic guitars will come up over here:  http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,39857.msg309592/topicseen.html#msg309592 (http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,39857.msg309592/topicseen.html#msg309592)

So keep an eye on that thread.  The Motif Guitar Mega Arps sound very realistic.

Joe H
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on September 25, 2017, 04:26:24 PM
I think the topic of realistic guitars will come up over here:  http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,39857.msg309592/topicseen.html#msg309592 (http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,39857.msg309592/topicseen.html#msg309592)

So keep an eye on that thread.  The Motif Guitar Mega Arps sound very realistic.

Joe H

Are you suggesting that this topic should change to "Other Features"?
If it is, it can be moved by an administrator without any problem.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on September 25, 2017, 04:32:41 PM
Always wanted to record an external musical instrument into a style.
When you record note by note, it is not the same as recording a complete chord.
The keyboard is capable of reproducing and imitating much, but nothing like playing a real guitar. A bass, drums, piano, synths, are acceptable, but the sound of a real guitar is still far from real sound.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on September 25, 2017, 05:07:52 PM
Are you suggesting that this topic should change to "Other Features"?
If it is, it can be moved by an administrator without any problem.

Enildo

No, what I'm saying is that you can achieve real guitar loops in MIDI.  I have hundreds of real guitar MIDI loops that were recorded with a MIDI guitar.   That thread is discussing arpeggios.  Yamaha has created realistic guitar arpeggios with MIDI.  I just wanted you to aware that there is realistic MIDI guitar loops.

I'm of the opinion that it is not necessary to record audio guitar strums or arppeggios.  If you want a new guitar sound, there are probably expansion packs with new guitar sounds.  If you want to do something really special, then I guess REX2 is the way to go.

REX2 is converted to MIDI Voice in YEM.  While you can think of it as audio... ALL MIDI Voices in your keyboard are audio that have been converted to MIDI Voices.

Regards,
Joe H
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Misu on September 25, 2017, 06:20:46 PM
Hi,
This topic is up to me special of my English, but not only, I have something for you to study from my Romanian custom style topic
Same link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx6qwlpS1CgHa01jRVNDckRhNUk/view?usp=sharing
Analyze the arpeggio sampler separately in the right hand and how it works in style, maybe can do something similar for your guitar without use 2 track.

Hope to help
Mihai
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on September 25, 2017, 07:52:37 PM
Hi,
This topic is up to me special of my English, but not only, I have something for you to study from my Romanian custom style topic
Same link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx6qwlpS1CgHa01jRVNDckRhNUk/view?usp=sharing
Analyze the arpeggio sampler separately in the right hand and how it works in style, maybe can do something similar for your guitar without use 2 track.

Hope to help
Mihai

Thanks Mihai, but the link have password.
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on September 25, 2017, 08:05:04 PM
No, what I'm saying is that you can achieve real guitar loops in MIDI.  I have hundreds of real guitar MIDI loops that were recorded with a MIDI guitar.   That thread is discussing arpeggios.  Yamaha has created realistic guitar arpeggios with MIDI.  I just wanted you to aware that there is realistic MIDI guitar loops.

I'm of the opinion that it is not necessary to record audio guitar strums or arppeggios.  If you want a new guitar sound, there are probably expansion packs with new guitar sounds.  If you want to do something really special, then I guess REX2 is the way to go.

REX2 is converted to MIDI Voice in YEM.  While you can think of it as audio... ALL MIDI Voices in your keyboard are audio that have been converted to MIDI Voices.

Regards,
Joe H



Ok, I got it!

Joe, in my region and in my country has a style of music very well known and played here that is called "FORRÓ" (popular Brazilian musical style), the guitars for these styles are very simple but very peculiar guitars. When the guys showed me that way to record the guitars, it was the first time I ever heard a real guitar forró. The other ways to record (recording the whole rhythm directly on the keyboard), using real guitar samples, are good but leave out.

I will continue studying and researching this new way of using styles on the keyboard and then I will introduce you to all the results. Maybe this will serve other performances that we have not found out yet.

Thanks for your opinions Joe H, you make a big difference in this forum.

greetings,
Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Misu on September 26, 2017, 06:31:28 AM
Sorry try now and tell me if work
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx6qwlpS1CgHa01jRVNDckRhNUk/view?usp=sharing
Mihai
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on September 29, 2017, 04:07:37 PM
Sorry try now and tell me if work
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx6qwlpS1CgHa01jRVNDckRhNUk/view?usp=sharing
Mihai

Thank you Mihai!
I loved the timbres!

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: denisfm on January 09, 2018, 06:04:41 PM
Hi Enildo and everybody. I am following this topic about audio loops on Yamaha Style and I am also trying to make this work. In fact, we have MIDI file and other MIDI information on Yamaha Styles, not audio file. When we use audio "slices", converted in Recycle we are controlling midi notes on the Styles.

So, I am still trying to unsderstand how to make this possible. Like Enildo said, it´s very intersting put Guitar Loops, or Cavaquinho Lopps, sliceds in wavs, packed in Yep, inside the styles, but the challenge is make the chord changing possible, transposing the slices wavs when we change the chord on left hand.

When you say that we use one channel for Major Chord, another for Minor Chord, and other for 7th Chord. So we have some limitations.
I also have checked some good information on this link:

http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/style2_2.htm

and this

http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/style_11.htm

Mainly when he says:
"...
Create the 3 different patterns in the MIDI Part, e.g. Major pattern in channel 4, Minor pattern in channel 5, and 7th pattern in channel 6
• Redirect these 3 MIDI channels to the SAME keyboard channel
• In MIDI ch. 4 remove ALL check marks in "Active Chords Minor" and "Active Chords 7th"
• In MIDI ch. 5 remove ALL check marks in "Active Chords Major" and "Active Chords 7th"
• In MIDI ch. 6 remove ALL check marks in "Active Chords Major" and "Active Chords Minor"

When this approach is used, most often 3 alternative patterns are created as demonstrated above.
...."

Well, I am trying to make this happen on PSR S750. Enildo, please, let´s trade some information. Tell me if you are working on PSR S650, 750, 950, that uses yep sound bank or you are on S670, S770 series.

Thank all of you for the information,
Sincerely
Denis

Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: eduardo on July 14, 2018, 02:19:02 AM
Hola saludes enildo quisiera saber si ya piedes hacer loop de guitarra real para estilos psr s970 ayuda quiero aprender hacer eso

Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: DonM on July 14, 2018, 06:48:40 AM
Maybe check out how Ketron does it.  They've had audio guitars in their styles for years.
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on July 15, 2018, 12:15:08 AM
There is this video here in Brazil, with real guitar loops. You can tell that it has a great quality.
It is almost impossible to do on the keyboard itself, because you can not make the sound of a "pick" dragging on the strings and sounding with reality.

Hug to everyone,

https://youtu.be/gPl86SXgjPU?t=304
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on July 15, 2018, 02:52:45 AM
Enildo,

As I say in Reply #29.  If you find some audio guitar loops in Brazilian style music recorded in the key of C Maj 7 scale you can convert them to REX2 and then import them into YEM.  The YEM software will allow you to make a style part and a Multi Pad from REX2 audio loops. Style Part and Multi Pad will then follow your left hand chords.  No need to record guitar loops in many chord types.

Regards,
Joe H
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on July 18, 2018, 04:13:19 PM
Enildo,

As I say in Reply #29.  If you find some audio guitar loops in Brazilian style music recorded in the key of C Maj 7 scale you can convert them to REX2 and then import them into YEM.  The YEM software will allow you to make a style part and a Multi Pad from REX2 audio loops. Style Part and Multi Pad will then follow your left hand chords.  No need to record guitar loops in many chord types.

Regards,
Joe H

Hello friend Joe! Let me call it that.

I understand your idea, it really makes sense. Then I'll take the time to study more thoroughly and do some testing with the information you're giving me.
God bless you!

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on July 19, 2018, 12:48:34 AM
Enildo,

The reason I took so long to respond is I got sick last October and didn't post on the forum for several months.

Regards,
Joe H
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on July 19, 2018, 02:35:54 PM
Enildo,

The reason I took so long to respond is I got sick last October and didn't post on the forum for several months.

Regards,
Joe H

Hello Joe!

I really missed you in this forum. I hope you're already better you make a lot of difference with your knowledge here. Much health to you!

They say that in other countries it is not common to wish to hug people, but I want to send a big hug my friend! Stay with God!

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on July 19, 2018, 06:43:24 PM
Hello Joe!

I really missed you in this forum. I hope you're already better you make a lot of difference with your knowledge here. Much health to you!

They say that in other countries it is not common to wish to hug people, but I want to send a big hug my friend! Stay with God!

Enildo

Thank you Enildo... hugs to you as well.

 :)    :)    :)    :)    :)

Joe H
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: hans1966 on July 20, 2018, 03:15:36 AM
Hello Joe, I hope that you are very well in health, your presence in the forum is very important, thanks to your knowledge I have learned a lot. take care friend, God continue to bless your talent. a big hug  from Colombia.   Hans
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on July 20, 2018, 04:49:01 AM
Hans,

I suffered a stroke in the right frontal lobe of my brain. I've made about a 98% recovery... 19 days in the hospital and months of physical and occupational therapy plus 2 surgeries, eating better food and exercising... and now am feeling much better.   I am so grateful there was no permanent damage.

Thank you for your comments... hugs to you also.

 :)    :)    :)    :)    :)

Joe H
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: hans1966 on July 21, 2018, 02:02:55 AM
The important thing is that you are fully recovered, it is a wonderful opportunity of life. Now you just have to enjoy doing  what else you more like, which is: Music and more Music.   greetings Hans
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on July 21, 2018, 02:37:16 AM
Hans,

I suffered a stroke in the right frontal lobe of my brain. I've made about a 98% recovery... 19 days in the hospital and months of physical and occupational therapy plus 2 surgeries, eating better food and exercising... and now am feeling much better.   I am so grateful there was no permanent damage.

Thank you for your comments... hugs to you also.

 :)    :)    :)    :)    :)


Joe H

Wow! It was really very serious what you suffered!
Thank God you are well, my friend! Your recovery is a miracle, even more that you did not have any sequels!

Do what you like what music is, but also try to change some habits and include a little physical activity.
Hug! Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on July 21, 2018, 01:43:39 PM
Joe H

Wow! It was really very serious what you suffered!
Thank God you are well, my friend! Your recovery is a miracle, even more that you did not have any sequels! ...

When they took me to the emergency room I couldn't talk or use my left arm or my left leg.  I have had to work hard to get back to "normal" and am doing everything I can so I do not have another stroke. Diet, exercise, and taking my medications.

 :)

Joe H
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: bernamato on July 21, 2018, 04:42:22 PM
rex2 has a midi notes in progression of half tone (i.e. from c0 to f0) to play an audio file. In this way YEM software cannot help to play a guitar chords. I tried to use yem without success. I don't understand the suggest give us from joe. I wish him a fast solution of his health. best regards
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Joe H on July 21, 2018, 11:11:14 PM
For most western music there are MIDI guitar loops for sale that were created with a MIDI guitar and they sound very realistic. I suggested REX2 because of the special consideration of the Brazilian style of music and the instrument sound in particular which does not exist in our Yamaha keyboards.

I give Yamaha credit for supporting REX2 samples in YEM. I've loaded REX2 files and converted (loaded) them into my S970 and played them. They sounded just fine.  But I prefer SF2 (Sound Font) samples because they provide good results.  Even if you could find the right sound, you still wouldn't get the playing style and technique Enildo is looking for.

I was just offering ideas and suggestions.

 ;)

Joe H
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: bernamato on July 22, 2018, 01:55:21 PM
Thank you, Joe.
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: bernamato on May 12, 2019, 08:06:48 PM
Joe H

Wow! It was really very serious what you suffered!
Thank God you are well, my friend! Your recovery is a miracle, even more that you did not have any sequels!

Do what you like what music is, but also try to change some habits and include a little physical activity.
Hug! Enildo

Hi Enildo.
Did you have found how play the guitar loop on psr 970?
Thank you.
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on May 13, 2019, 06:24:58 PM
Hello friend Bernamato!
Yes, after much time studying about it I learned how to do it. It is tricky to arrive at a satisfactory end result.
I'm teaching a course in my region and for people from Brazil.
The course takes about 4 hours (which is divided into 2 days) and students still have some questions,
that are usually resolved within the first 10 days.

Cheers
Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on May 13, 2019, 06:29:43 PM
When I learned to do the loops with chord progression and change in tempo,
only me and 2 other people in Brazil knew how to do that.
I have not heard of anyone else being able to put a guitar beat in ".wav" to play on the keyboard, like a "DAW".
But I can say one thing, the result is very good!

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on May 13, 2019, 06:41:02 PM
Today I am studying techniques such as reducing the size of loops (which are usually around 12mb),
further improving the development, as well as simplifying to save time.
I think the direction of the keyboard companies go that way.
You will play a style on the keyboard with your guitar, accordion or your ukulele that is on your side,
in your home or in your studio, listening to the instrument's original timbre.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: bernamato on May 13, 2019, 06:42:41 PM
please, as you can, give me some video examples. Thanks
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on May 13, 2019, 06:48:07 PM
please, as you can, give me some video examples. Thanks

It's not that I have no interest in teaching, but it's complicated to teach with 1 or 2 videos.
Five computer programs and keyboard settings are used to reach the end result.
It would have to record several videos showing each stage of the operation.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: bernamato on May 13, 2019, 07:00:16 PM
I am interested to hear the result. please, post some video link. Thks
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on May 13, 2019, 07:03:59 PM
I am interested to hear the result. please, post some video link. Thks

I have auditions of Brazilian style guitars. Do you have whatsapp or messenger? I can send you to listen.
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: bernamato on May 14, 2019, 09:40:39 PM
Enildo, when you asked help here we try to give you. So I hope you help me too.
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on May 15, 2019, 01:51:48 AM
Enildo, when you asked help here we try to give you. So I hope you help me too.

I'm trying to help you. So far you have been the only one who took an interest in the subject.
I asked you for your whatsapp or messeger number because I want to help you.
Now you have to trust this humble Latin American.
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on May 15, 2019, 01:54:15 AM
Like I said, I can not explain the subject here. There are 5 programs used + settings on the keyboard.
A simple detail forgotten and will miss. I also can not record a video, because it would be a video of 4 to 6 hours to explain everything.
Understand me please!

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Henni on May 15, 2019, 06:52:29 AM
Hi Enildo,

I am interested.

+27 671336955

Kind regards,

Henni
South Africa
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on May 15, 2019, 01:23:31 PM
Enildo, when you asked help here we try to give you. So I hope you help me too.

I just wanted to say that I already helped and I continue to help those who need this forum here.
But we can not always do everything.
I have my limitations too!

Thank you to everyone who understands
Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: bernamato on May 19, 2019, 03:50:16 PM
Done!

This tutorial is what I was looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbrM-OB97K8
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on May 21, 2019, 06:52:01 PM
Done!

This tutorial is what I was looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbrM-OB97K8

This tutorial teaches you how to make loops for the "kontakt" program and not for internal use.
My method is much simpler and more objective, and loops are installed on the keyboard in the "PPI or CPI" format, usually by YEM.
But glad you're satisfied. I am happy with the happiness of other people and their achievements!

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on May 21, 2019, 06:58:47 PM
I apologize to all forum friends who are interested in this subject, but it is difficult for me to teach everyone who has an interest,
both in the complexity of the explanations and in the language.
Even here in Brazil I am thinking of not teaching more, because it is a subject that generates many doubts and since I have other tasks,
I am not able to attend to everybody.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Enildo on May 21, 2019, 07:03:57 PM
I'm level II (let's put it this way) on this subject of real audio loops, and I'm working to ease some of the procedures,
as well as improving the operation of loops to avoid gagging, crashes and so on.

Enildo
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: stefanobean on April 06, 2020, 11:08:15 AM
Hi, after long study, I'm done with audio drum in recycle (that sound perfect) and audio live guitar (only little problem).
I use cubase 10, kontakt  Recycle, csm editor, style split splice and maybe more software.
The tutorial has help me.

My mode is to start adjust the original wav for perfect loop, then I create every single cutted wav
and it can do from recycle (export mode) or cubase too. (a complex 2 bar loop can have 16 single wav)
Then edit each single wav and remapped in kontakt  every slice note to velocity 127, 126 125 ecc ...
and then create the final sf2 for import into expansion manager.
 
Of course I want to use in genos and not play directly from kontakt like the video.
I'm try to sample my acustic live guitar from ketron sd9
I have only one problem: The guitar loop slice. It's so difficult to slice every note in recycle.. and question one:
If every note recycled has personal slice... so which part slice midi import into the style? It's impossible to crate a midi part for every note.

So my solution is to recycle slice note in standard 1/8 or 16/16 piece. for every loop. (recycle can automatic create 16/16 slice)
 Then the midi slice part is only 1 (uguale for every note).... Then all work perfect, time note majour minour ecc..   exept  the sound!!!!
 
I try to change every parametre in recycle and try to create every 16 wav file from cubase too (without recycle) but same result
A slice of 8/8 or 16/16  create a bad sound (at original bpm too) when reproduced.  (it's not like drum)
So I can have live guitar that play good only if zero slice  but then I cannot down or up the tempo
More slice and can have more down/up the tempo, but at minimun the result is bad too!!!

Set 4/4 slice is not enough... and 8/8  slice result final wav terrible  (at 16/16 more bad)

Please who can help me?
Title: It IS possible
Post by: Balkanbeat on April 30, 2020, 02:33:57 AM
Hello,
I made a new account just to get into this topic.
I am very interested in how this is done as well..
Creating time slice grooves with drums/percussion is easy because most arrangers do have this option.
So of what i have seen and read is that it is a guitar loop in this case
is a multisample of chords and then is sliced into a groove from highest (127) to lower velocity’s
(126, 125, 124, 123, 122, 121, 120 etc..) from here you can use a midi groove that you can create with a software called “ReCycle”, you then play the stacatto notes exactly the same as this midi groove has been created from ReCycle. But is it possible to create this inside the keyboard instead of using this software for pc? All i know it is possible.. but how exactly i don’t know, yes it seems very complicated but there has to be a way to get this working all on the arranger.
It has also been done on a Korg Pa800/pa1x/pa2x/pa3x/pa4x.
If somebody can make a english tutorial on how to do this it would be very helpfull.
I make balkan music so we have the exact issue with live performance, the most hardest instrument to emulate is a electric guitar, also the styles come more alive as well.

And for the record i also know the Gem WK6/WK8 had the possibility to create automatic chords from a live loop (guitar, bass.. etc..) this is called a R.A.S.S Style (Real Audio Synchro Style) but shame Gem never promoted this further into the future.

https://youtu.be/5Yh9l14EcEk

Here’s a video of live loop guitar styles created on Gem Wk6/Wk8 & Korg Pa800.
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Balkanbeat on April 30, 2020, 02:40:13 AM
Here is more of live guitar loops on arranger keyboard

https://youtu.be/mvZlZ4QezWk

https://youtu.be/Gmk6Y3jE9us
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: bernamato on April 30, 2020, 07:48:19 AM
Hi all.
The solution I found is to play exactly the midi note exported from recycle and .wav audio, of course.
Assign the audio samples with different velocity in one channel corresponding to a single note. Every channel has its chord. After use casm editor to exclude for each channel the note that you wan't play and with chord has not assigned. In this way for each midi pattern derivates from recycle you can play one chord perfectly in timing and with no degrading sounds.That is alll
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: Balkanbeat on May 08, 2020, 06:16:07 PM
Can somebody make video tutorial how to do this on keyboard arranger? Step to step
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: gabrielschuck on March 04, 2022, 01:50:47 PM
Hi Enildo and others,
Interesting to find a topic on this subject here! :)
I'm also one of the people here in Brazil who was already researching and trying to understand how Brazilian style programmers manage to make these tricks.
From what I could find out and also from the information brought here, we don't need to go very far. Yamaha has already done this and certainly someone very expert has understood the logic and is using it creatively.

The first proof of this is in yamaha's own "Alpen Pack". For users who have this pack, a special attention to the last voice that I don't remember the exact name now, I know for sure that it's the last one.
Notice that when playing the notes individually, what you hear (depending on the intensity) is a chord and not a single note. And there are variations of that same chord depending on the velocity layers.
So, in one octave are the major chords, in the other the minor ones and also the 7th chords.
What happens is what Enildo suggests. There is an instruction in the style file to play the notes of a certain octave according to the instructed chord. If it is major, it uses the corresponding notes of the major chords of one octave of the voice, if it is minor of another octave, and so on.
In practice it would be like recording a bass single note always using the root of the chord, without any ostinato. When playing the style, the keyboard understands that it must use the root of the chord. But the sample assigned to that note is the chord itself with variations.
No need to use a separate channel for each chord anymore.
I remember like it was today when I played a special chord like those with the 7th in some styles of the PSR510 and suddenly I heard a cymbal more in style. This shows that Yamaha already did this by defining a behavior to the style when certain chord changes occur.
Some more current styles (and again the Alpen pack is a great reference), when the chord, for example, is a minor seventh, the bass line happens to do the opposite, that is, instead of playing the tonic of the chord first, it plays the fifth for then the tonic.

Of course, using a real loop instrument as the basis for a style has its advantages and disadvantages.
Joe is also right, in general the vast majority of styles have always used midi and, of course, depending on the voices (which may even be from the keyboard itself) it is possible to achieve impressive results while saving expansion memory space.

I don't know if I made myself understood either, my English isn't that good either.
regards,
Gabriel
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: bernamato on March 13, 2022, 06:47:33 AM
Could you tell us the "instructions" in the styles you are referring to? What kind of instructions? Can I compile the "instructions" in the "style creator" or do we have to use an external application?
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: ckobu on March 13, 2022, 09:00:47 AM
Guitars of this type (audio guitar) are made the way I showed in the video. It takes time, effort and knowledge.
It's too much work and the result is not always good.

https://youtu.be/7zQaOUsZHW0 (https://youtu.be/7zQaOUsZHW0)

Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: bernamato on March 13, 2022, 09:31:07 AM
I forgot to split in three zone the cord type. For example, we can assign major chords to a low zone, a minor chords in a middle zone and a 7th chords in upper zone. Question: for the rest of chords type (m7th, maj9th etc.) do we need to use another channel?
Tks a lot for your assistence.
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: ckobu on March 13, 2022, 09:54:37 AM
...For example, we can assign major chords to a low zone, a minor chords in a middle zone and a 7th chords in upper zone...


This cannot be done because only one Switch Chord configuration can be assigned to one channel. If we specify three zones on that channel, they will all have the same Chord Switch configuration.
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: ckobu on March 15, 2022, 11:38:12 PM
Hi Enildo and others,
...
No need to use a separate channel for each chord anymore.


That can't be done, and I wrote here why.

This cannot be done because only one Switch Chord configuration can be assigned to one channel. If we specify three zones on that channel, they will all have the same Chord Switch configuration.

To clarify the example of the FastPolkaKrainer Style found in the Genos V2.0 SuperiorPack. Guitar (CHD1) plays on Channel 12 and is created in the way I described in my video posted in post #74. Only one tone (c) is played on the 12th channel, but the whole chord is heard, in fact the major is played there (picture). The same guitar is played on channels 2, 3, 4, 5 and 8, but with a different harmonic structure. Specifically, noise effects are inserted on channels 2 and 8 to make the guitar sound more natural. It's like Multivoice sounds.
I will repeat, there is no way to combine all harmonic shapes on just one channel with this method. Multiple channels must be used if we want Style to sound right.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: love4music on March 17, 2022, 12:50:37 PM
Hi to everyone !
Take a look ...
https://youtu.be/nbu6WhfC-z4
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: bernamato on March 17, 2022, 09:09:00 PM
An example:
https://youtu.be/lly2evMCXP0


Thanks.
Title: Re: Real Audio Loops (guitar) on Psr s970 Styles?
Post by: love4music on April 20, 2022, 04:31:04 PM
Hi everyone ! try this..  ;)

https://youtu.be/nbu6WhfC-z4