Author Topic: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake  (Read 3065 times)

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Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« on: November 22, 2017, 04:58:16 PM »
After a couple of months of owning (and enjoying) a pre-owned Tyros 4, I decided I wanted to upgrade my arranger. And after viewing a welter of YouTube videos, reading specs, manuals etc, I came to the conclusion that my next buy should be not a Yamaha Tyros 5 or Genos, but a Korg PA4X.

The reasoning behind this conclusion seemed solid enough. I'm a pro keys player, and the Korg seemed to offer an array of great sounds coupled with really flexible and (compared with the Yamaha arrangers) deep sound creation potential. In terms of the quality of its construction and materials, it looked far more 'professional' than the Tyros or Genos.

I eventually decided to take the plunge and went to an emporium in the North West of England which sells both Yamaha and Korg. The salesman absolutely backed my choice – the way he saw it, the Korg was for pro players using it live, the Yamaha mostly for people playing at home for pleasure.

The thing is, when I started actually playing the Korg, I was rather more underwhelmed than I thought I would be. Yet I still allowed myself to be talked into it. It would, the salesman argued, do everything the Tyros could times a million etc etc. If I didn't find exactly what I was looking for, sonically, on the spot, because of its greater flexibility, I could create that sound myself.

Fast-forward by two weeks of ownership, and I have a painful confession to make. I really don't like the Korg very much at all.

When I had the T4, it was like the musical equivalent of crack – I would get lost for hours playing with the orchestral sounds, being inspired; musical ideas would seem to come from nowhere.

The Korg just doesn't do that for me. Yes, it is significantly more flexible. Yes, it is significantly cheaper. But none of that really matters if the sounds are not as good. And...they just aren't.

For example, here's something I knocked up in less than a couple of hours on the T4...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0649n2xdQQ

In hours of fiddling, searching and experimenting, I haven't yet turned up more than a handful of sounds on the Korg which come close to the naturalness of most of the sounds on my old T4 (an instrument itself over seven years old, let's not forget).

So where does that leave me? I toyed with the idea of scoring a used T5-76 (the extra keys were a big reason for me wanting to change up from the T4), but I've decided to bite the bullet, move the Korg on and buy a Genos.

None of this is to say that the Korg isn't a good keyboard. However, much as it galls me to have to eat my words, it's not really in the same class as Genos, or even Tyros. If you're considering jumping on the Korg ship, please spend as much time as possible with it to make sure you're happy. I stupidly went against my gut feeling and it's proved an expensive mistake.

Offline Pianoman

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2017, 05:13:47 PM »
Is it not possible to just choose a style, then choose any voice, and just play a song?
It is not the Instrument that makes a musician sound good.
It is the musician that makes any old instrument sound good.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 05:16:43 PM by Pianoman »
 
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Offline zionip

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2017, 05:15:25 PM »
Hi agoldstraw,

Very nice testimony and nice playing by the way.

Have you got your Genos yet, or still waiting?

Paul
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 05:17:10 PM by zionip »
 

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2017, 05:20:08 PM »
Paul, I'll need to sell the Korg first, sadly!

Pianoman, it's not that I couldn't make some nice sounds with the Korg – I certainly could. But the inescapable conclusion is that the articulations available in the Korg voices, by and large, are nowhere near the quality of those in Tyros or Genos.
Keys by Aidan: www.goldstraw.com
 
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Offline stephenm52

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2017, 06:41:37 PM »
Enjoyable piece of music you posted.  Sorry to hear the Pa4x did not workout for you.  I’ve pretty much owned both Korg and Yamaha arrangers the last 10 years.  The Korg as great as it is, is a different animal than the Yamaha. 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 07:14:20 PM by stephenm52 »
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, PSR s970, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2017, 06:57:47 PM »
agoldstraw,

You story reminds me of the many posts by people who owned both the Motif and Tyros keyboards.  Synths with deep Voice editing will trap you into a routine of passing  the (many) hours... tweaking Voices while the arranger... will provide instant inspiration with it's Preset Voices and 8 part styles. 

So... the question becomes for anyone who is deciding between a synth or arranger; do you want to spend your time editing sounds or playing music?  Since some people would like to see Yamaha produce an arranger like Korg... a hybrid synth-arranger, I think there is great value in you sharing your story, perspective and experience here on this forum.

Regards,
Joe H
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 06:58:57 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads for EDM. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2017, 07:02:11 PM »
Hi Agoldstraw.

If you are Silicon Philharmonic, that's some lovely music there.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.

Offline usaraiya

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2017, 07:29:29 PM »
Agoldstraw,

There are people who love the Yamaha arrangers , and those that love the Korg arrangers, majority are one way or another.
The OS of Korg takes some getting used to, and you can make Korg sounds, sound really good, but it takes getting used to how to do it well.
There are very few who love both equally, and I am one of them. Use them both and you will find synergy, rather than the disappointment,  and learn stuff that each can do well superlatively. People who can get two KBs, I would say have Genos & PA4X! An excellent combination.

 :)

Uday
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 05:08:48 AM by usaraiya »
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2017, 09:15:05 PM »


Why cannot you return the Korg to your dealer and buy there a Genos instead ?

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2017, 09:19:34 PM »
I think we have to admit that Yamaha and Korg are two "different animals", and if we try to find exactly the same in both, even top of the range models, we're going to be very dissapointed.
I've heard low end keyboards sounding fantastic when played by talented musicans, and top end models sounding like a cheap toy for kids when played by people who call themselves for pros but not even are close to be.

I think both Genos and PA4X is really great keyboards, but as all other things in life, we have to get to know the horse before we can ride it to win a race. Sometime jockey and horse have to find new partners to get well together.
I would love to have both, plus Ketron as well. Maybe I will, some or another day ..... only wish they could be exactly like Technics ........ ;)
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 09:22:13 PM by Gunnar Jonny »
Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2017, 09:30:10 PM »

Why cannot you return the Korg to your dealer and buy there a Genos instead ?

Jeff

Because that requires €2000?
a budget is a budget.
And there is a reason i dont own a Genos Yet.

It seems like the complaint is about the Pa4x sounds.
They have a different characteristic then the Yamaha sounds.
Which is mostly personal preference

Combined with the different operating system.
Which takes time to get used to.

But there must be some sounds he likes on the PA4x?
I have heared great stuff about the piano's E-piano's strings and Organs for example..


I guess he is in the same ship as me.
Start saving up for an upgrade to a Genos.
I already told my boss that i require a better Christmas bonus this year.
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 09:42:12 PM »
Hi Gunnar Jonny,

You are absolutely right.👍

Korg and Yamaha keyboards are both pro arranger keyboards but completely different in use with a total different software structure.

Again, I do not understand why he cannot get his money back ?

When a customer is not happy with his new purchased goods he has the right ( by law ) to bring the product(s) back after 2 or 4 to 8 weeks after the purchasing date. Return period depends on the individual agreement.

Jeff
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 09:47:02 PM by Jeff Hollande »
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2017, 09:47:44 PM »
Hi Gunnar Jonny,

You are absolutely right.👍

Korg and Yamaha keyboards are both pro arranger keyboards but completely different in use with a total different software structure.

Again, I do not understand why he cannot get his money back and buy there a Genos.

When a customer is not happy with his new purchased goods he has the right ( by law ) to bring the product(s) back after 2 or 4 to 8 weeks after the purchasing date. Return period depends on the individual agreement.

Jeff

Over here in Holland that grace period only works (2 weeks) if you bought the goods online
For the rest it is up to the kindness of the sales man. as you said the individual agreement
But that part is not backed up by laws. According to the law, if you buy something and it functions as it should, you are stuck with it.
Disliking the sound of something he should have tested before buying,
is not a reason for applying customer rights.
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2017, 10:02:02 PM »
Hi Spirit,

Bax Music e.g. has a return period of 60 days.
Oostendorp 30 days, I guess.

Best regards from Bergen op Zoom, Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 
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Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2017, 11:56:59 PM »
Pianoman, yes, The Silicon Philharmonic is me :)

The shop in question would have _considered_ a return (since it was an in-store purchase, they are not obliged to here in the UK) within 14 days. Unfortunately, I have been on a tour in Germany for the last week, during which the allotted time elapsed. I didn't have a lot of spare time with the Korg during the days leading up to that as I was busy prepping material.

I suppose I could try throwing myself on their mercy, but a further complication is that to finance the Genos, I need to sell a further keyboard (I'm thinning the herd a little anyway), and it's quite a specialist one, so I want to do that privately rather than part-exchange it.

Don't get me wrong – it's not that the Korg is a bad keyboard, and there are quite a few sounds which are significantly better than my T4 – the pianos and electric pianos for sure; organ to a certain extent, though anyone expecting an equal of the CX3 module of the Kronos will be disappointed. But in terms of the orchestral sounds, there's no contest for me – Yamaha every time.

Operating system is different but I got used to it pretty quickly. I'm quite technically minded (I can program my Kurzweil PC361 fairly comfortably, for example). The one thing I did find irritating about the Korg is its insistence on different 'modes' for playing voices, playing arrangements, playing sequences. It seems an unnecessarily artificial construct.

 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 12:00:03 AM by agoldstraw »
Keys by Aidan: www.goldstraw.com
 

Offline zionip

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2017, 02:14:25 AM »
But in terms of the orchestral sounds, there's no contest for me – Yamaha every time.

I really appreciate your view on this. 

I love using the Genos orchestral sounds with the Free Play styles in the Movie&Show style section.  There is a free Symphonic Russian Educational Style pack, which contains 18 styles for classical music and 2 for electronic music for PSR-S970, compatible to Genos:
http://download.yamaha.com/files/tcm:39-789784

Thanks,
Paul
 
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Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2017, 02:23:12 AM »
Thank you, Paul for the link !  :)

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline zionip

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2017, 02:30:35 AM »
Thank you, Paul for the link !  :)

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

You're welcome.

Actually all the free packs published at the following Yamaha web page are compatible to Genos because the PSR-S970 and Genos both use SWP70 tone generator:
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/psr-s970/vse.html#product-tabs

In fact, all PSR-S970 voice and style expansion packs are compatible to Genos and they are much cheaper than the Genos equivalent packs.  The Genos packs are more expensive due to the newer and better voices, and different marketing strategies.

Thanks,
Paul
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 02:32:12 AM by zionip »
 
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Offline voodoo

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2017, 03:03:33 AM »
Thank you, Paul for the link !  :)

Jeff

There are eight free packs available on this site:

  https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/psr-s970/vse.html#product-tabs

All should work on PSR and Genos. (Not all work on Tyros because of its older tone generator chip.)

Uli
Yamaha Genos (finally)
Nord Electro 5D
 

Offline zionip

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2017, 03:16:14 AM »
There are eight free packs available on this site:

  https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/psr-s970/vse.html#product-tabs

All should work on PSR and Genos. (Not all work on Tyros because of its older tone generator chip.)

Uli

Thanks for the link, Uli.

Your link points to the Yamaha site with 2 more packs than the USA site, the "Sir Jude Nnam" and the "PSR-A2000 Oriental Pack".

I will try these new packs to see if I like any of these styles.

Thanks,
Paul
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2017, 03:46:19 AM »
Agold straw, I feel for you man.

Jeff, above stated that one can return a product for up to 60 days in some countries.
That is true, but mostly if the product is defective.

I also agree with you that a product that is bought in house as opposed to being bought online is difficult to return, because one could have tested  the product to his/her hearts content before buying it.

However, any intelligent store would also have to look at the prospect of gaining a long term client by being reasonable, or losing one.

If the keyboard is in pristine condition, and one still has the original packaging, he wouldn't lose much money or have any difficulty in reselling it.

Any reasonable person would accept that we all make mistakes sometimes and shouldn't be crucified for them.
At this point, you have nothing to lose by talking to the dealer about it.

And if you indicate that you may be interested in buying another keyboard from him at a later date, that would make him even more amenable.
Good luck.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.

Offline markstyles

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2017, 04:43:48 AM »
Most stores have their own policy, and if it is stated clearly, that's what is..  Here in US, most stores are two weeks. Some charge a 15% restocking fee.  My first Tyros was a Tyros 4 from B&H Photo,  they have a 30 day policy, no questions asked return. I had to buy Tyros sight/sound unseen.   Most music stores in US, won't even carry an instrument as expensive as Genos. They can order it. 

I played a Pa4X, I wanted to like it, but just didn't..  Absolutely nothing wrong with it, just my personal taste.  To each his own..  Also I find more stores these days, just care about making the sale, don't care about a 'long term loyal customer'..

I'm also leery of salesmen, who talk too much, In some stores, the salesman, will basically say anything to make the sale..  Sorry you were disappointed.

Offline pjd

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2017, 07:19:14 AM »
Hello  Aidan --

Thanks for sending the link to "Later One Morning." Beautiful composition and playing!

I'm sorry to hear that the Pa4x didn't work out and now you face the real world issue of making another change. You have our empathy and support, having been in the same situation ourselves one time or another.

Thanks for passing along your experience.

-- pj

Offline WolfBack

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2017, 10:27:33 AM »
So... the question becomes for anyone who is deciding between a synth or arranger; do you want to spend your time editing sounds or playing music?
Τhat was the main reason I did not buy the Moxf for the first place. I love the voice editing stuff but, as amateur musician, I prefer the "ready to play" keyboard of PSR lines.
If a want a tweaked sound, I make those on my VST's, extracted as soundfonts and then I use those sounds on my PSR. Ιs not the quickest way, but it works fine!

In my country, korg outperform yamaha in sales but I do not understand why. I have not tried any korg so far, but I will try it sometime. I have the impression that korg is superior to the fact that you create styles more easily than using existing sounds.
Make Music, Not War....

Antonis WolfBack (Athens, GR)
 

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2017, 02:28:13 PM »
Hmm, I see someone has been doing a little (ahem) tidying up while I was away – not at my instigation, I might add.

However, hopefully without reopening a can of worms, I did want to add some clarification to my original remarks:

I am not saying the PA4X is a terrible keyboard. It clearly has some very strong points, and had I been looking to mostly accompany singers in a live duo situation with it, I'm sure it would be very good at that. The 'bread and butter' sounds such as the acoustic and electric pianos, organs and guitars are pretty good and in many cases probably better than those on Tyros or Genos.

However, my two main thoughts on using the T4 and then the PA4X have focused on mainly two things: a) The Silicon Philharmonic – just a little thing for my own amusement really, but then I'm a frustrated orchestrator! b) A Joni Mitchell tribute show which we're taking around the country next year. I will _mostly_ be playing acoustic or electric piano (covered by my Yamaha CP4) but there are songs where I will need to double guitars, add believable sax (think Wayne Shorter/Michael Brecker on Joni's later albums) and also some orchestral elements (the slow, later version of Both Sides Now, for example). For all these things, I need the most authentic sounds I can lay my hands on in hardware. Tyros/Genos has those – the PA4X, not quite so much – it's not that keyboard's strength.

Look, I'm old enough and big enough to put my hand up and say that for my particular purposes (and yes, tastes) I took a wrong turn. That's really all I was trying to say, and caution others against the dangers of hasty decisions.

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2017, 02:51:13 PM »
........ I am not saying the PA4X is a terrible keyboard. It clearly has some very strong points, and had I been looking to mostly accompany singers in a live duo situation with it, I'm sure it would be very good at that. The 'bread and butter' sounds such as the acoustic and electric pianos, organs and guitars are pretty good and in many cases probably better than those on Tyros or Genos...........

Look, I'm old enough and big enough to put my hand up and say that for my particular purposes (and yes, tastes) I took a wrong turn. That's really all I was trying to say, and caution others against the dangers of hasty decisions.

Great post, and reasonable arguments.
If I lived in UK, I would buy your PA4X imediately, well, only if it is a 76 keys version..
Too much hassle to export/import, the Norwegian goverment is is worse that Yamaha when come to "milking the cow" till the last drop. :D
Cheers & Happy Playing.  :)
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline Ingar

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2017, 08:17:56 AM »
Because that requires €2000?
a budget is a budget.
And there is a reason i dont own a Genos Yet.


Here in Norway we are fortunate enough to have 30 days of open purchase for such capital goods. If this does not match the expectations, we can return the item to the store and get the money back.
 

Offline Lloyd E

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2017, 01:42:28 PM »
I too made an expensive mistake in buying a Korg Pa4X. After having 3 models of the Tyros (2,4 and 5)
I found the Korg did not have voices that could not match the quality of Yamaha.
Everyone hears differently and so playing the Tyros models so long I believe my ears were so used to
the Tyros boards that the Korg did not sound as good.

The Korg is a terrific board and many, many Yamaha players has gone over to Korg and are happy,
There is no keyboard better than the rest because it's what your ears hear.  Lloyd
Music is the way to go
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2017, 03:10:42 PM »
I too made an expensive mistake in buying a Korg Pa4X. After having 3 models of the Tyros (2,4 and 5)
I found the Korg did not have voices that could not match the quality of Yamaha.
Everyone hears differently and so playing the Tyros models so long I believe my ears were so used to
the Tyros boards that the Korg did not sound as good.

The Korg is a terrific board and many, many Yamaha players has gone over to Korg and are happy,
There is no keyboard better than the rest because it's what your ears hear.  Lloyd


Lloyd,  I think your last sentence says it bet “no keyboard is better than the rest, it’s what your ears hear.
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, PSR s970, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2017, 03:49:35 PM »
Until two weeks ago, I had never heard a PA4X live and in person, never touched the keys of the PA4X. Now, I must say, it is an outstanding arranger keyboard, with many great sounds and features, but when it comes to styles and right hand sounds, I think the Yamaha wins hands down. That's just my perspective from a single, 1-hour encounter with the PA4X. I think that Yamaha's guitars are far superior, there are definitely more of them, I like Yamaha's stings, vibes and saxes much better than what I heard on the Korg. The Yamaha's sounds were far more polished and realistic, while the only attribute on the Korg was the drums and bass, which were excellent and very realistic, though I believe that with a bit of tuning, both would sound nearly identical in those categories.

As I sit here in front of the PC, writing this, with my trusty S-950 at my side, how I wish I were able to return to the world of musical entertainment, which I dearly loved doing for more than 5 decades. I got a telephone call from a young lady asking if I were returning to Marathon Key, Florida again this winter, and if I was, would I be able to perform for the resort's happy hour every Wednesday night. Unfortunately, I had to turn her down. I envy those such as Don Mason and Pianoman that are still out there performing on a nightly basis.

No is no perfect arranger keyboard, IMO - it does not exist, though Yamaha and Korg both have done remarkable jobs with their latest TOTL arrangers during the past year. The most important thing is the entertainer. If you are a good entertainer, you can have lots of fun and make a good living in this business using pretty much any TOTL arranger keyboard. If you are not a good entertainer, then all bets are off. Even the best arranger keyboard will not make you a good, or great, entertainer.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2017, 09:26:58 PM »
Lloyd,  I think your last sentence says it bet “no keyboard is better than the rest, it’s what your ears hear.


While sound is important, there is more, then just what your ears hear.

IF the best sounding keyboard only had 2 variation, 1 intro and 50 styles and 50 sounds on board..
It would still be the best to your ears.
But would it be your choice?

With all high end keyboards sounding this great.
Could the functionality they offer be what makes them a great deal?
 

Offline guitpic1

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2017, 10:07:38 PM »
Good point not to make a hasty decision. 

I had the Tyros 4, still have the PSR S970.  Currently I gig with the PA4X.  The comparison of styles and voices is always interesting to me as it seems people prefer either Yamaha or Korg and seem to be in one camp or the other.  I was pleasantly surprised at the excellent styles and voices of the PA4X coming from my Yamaha’s which I also thought were good.

That said, coming from a Yamaha background, it took me the better part of six months to get anywhere as comfortable with the 4X as I was with Yamaha.

If you are “stuck” with the PA4X for one reason or another, perhaps more time with the 4X would be beneficial?



guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3
 

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2017, 06:00:18 PM »
Update: I've had a better week with the Korg – it makes much more sense as a product once you begin to customise it and make it your own. For example, many of the styles are too busy even at Variation 1, but once stripped back, thing sound much better and there is more room to play. And now I'm combining my own voices and customising mixes, EQ etc, I'm starting to like what I hear a lot more.

No, it's not a Tyros – and maybe that's what I need to get over. We'll see. If I get a decent offer for it before Christmas, I may still sell, otherwise we'll see how we go. One thing some commenters have right – it would be nice to have both machines! That may be a bit of a push financially with Genos, but I might be able to afford to add a T5 at a decent price. Hmm. Decisions, decisions...!
Keys by Aidan: www.goldstraw.com
 
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Offline Tommy 73

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2017, 10:50:44 PM »
The PA4X is a deep keyboard compared to Tyros/Genos so you do really need to give the PA4X time....BUT... the Genos Revo drum kits are very good indead and korg don't have some of the sounds that Yamaha have worked hard on... so from my personal perpective (with out detail) i am happy with the PA4X & Montage fusion and if Yamaha consider a PRO version of Genos (unlikely) then I may reconsider but in that time the PA5X would of entered the Arena.....  :)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 10:52:03 PM by Tommy 73 »
((((A@424HZ))))
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2017, 08:35:42 AM »
Why shooting a winning horse like the Korg PA4X ?
That would be a real mistake, I guess.   ::)

Take your time to learn all the PA4X arranger kb details and you will be a real winner !
If you want to add an extra Yamaha kb, buy you an S770 or S970.

The combination of the two super brands is great !
I just ordered the PA700 as an addition to my S770.
Hope to receive it one of these days.

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline guitpic1

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2017, 04:16:48 AM »
Why shooting a winning horse like the Korg PA4X ?
That would be a real mistake, I guess.   ::)

Take your time to learn all the PA4X arranger kb details and you will be a real winner !
If you want to add an extra Yamaha kb, buy you an S770 or S970.

The combination of the two super brands is great !
I just ordered the PA700 as an addition to my S770.
Hope to receive it one of these days.

Agoldstraw,

The more you work with the 4X, the more capabilities you will find in that keyboard.  There’s not much it can’t do and if you’re a gigging musician, you will find out how well laid out the board is for that purpose. 

Jeff

My combo of the PA4X and PSR S970 covers all the musical bases that I need to cover.  Both keyboards have their individual strengths.  I have said this before, and will say it again, the PSR S970 is an excellent keyboard for the money.

Agoldstraw,

Regarding the PA4X, the more you work with the 4X, the more you will come to discover what a capable keyboard it is.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 04:24:18 AM by guitpic1 »
guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3
 

Offline terryB

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2017, 07:24:09 AM »
Its a pity that Korg doesn't do a module version of PA4X like they did years ago with I5m? (I think or something similar), which could possibly midi link with a Genos or Tyros/PSR

Cheers
Terry
 

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2017, 03:00:14 PM »
This is a real Jekyll and Hyde relationship. Today, I got frustrated by the styles. The voicings seem very 'one dimensional' – progressions from one chord to the next always sound a bit contrived and artificial. For some reason, I also find it much harder to play 'cleanly' on the Korg too. One side of my brain tells me that I ought to love this keyboard, the other shrugs and says 'ain't happening'.
Keys by Aidan: www.goldstraw.com
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2017, 03:34:36 PM »
This is a real Jekyll and Hyde relationship. Today, I got frustrated by the styles. The voicings seem very 'one dimensional' – progressions from one chord to the next always sound a bit contrived and artificial. For some reason, I also find it much harder to play 'cleanly' on the Korg too. One side of my brain tells me that I ought to love this keyboard, the other shrugs and says 'ain't happening'.

In my early days of owning a Korg I went thru some of the same things you’re going thru.  Not sure when but it was probably when I moved to the Pa2x-Pro, that changed my mind.  You sound like someone who would be happier with a Genos.
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, PSR s970, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2017, 04:43:42 PM »
Or very possibly a clean, used T5/76. That's the way my thoughts are winging at the moment. No further huge expense and pretty close to the Genos in capabilities, tbh. I've just had a look at Peter Baartmans' Kraft demo of the T5 and thought: Yup, hell of a lot of mileage still left in that machine.
Keys by Aidan: www.goldstraw.com
 

Offline guitpic1

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2017, 09:27:07 PM »
Don’t know if I’ll explain very well but here goes...

My S970(and Tyros4 before that) has a sort of “compressed/limited/blended” sound to me.  It’s as if no one part of the style or voice greatly overshadows any other part.  Still it sounds very good. I like this for home play.

On the the other hand, my PA4X tends to sound more like a live band to me where voices/and style parts are separated and where some parts may be a tad louder than others.  Ironically, this sound actually makes for a better live playing situation for me as some parts stand out more than others...as might occur in a live band setting.  Sounds more real to me...and sounds more real to my audiences I believe.

It can be an adjustment getting used to the sound of a 4X.  I now find that when I go back to my S970, from the 4X, it takes a while for me to get used to that more compressed sound.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 09:33:10 PM by guitpic1 »
guitpic1

PA 4X, S970, DGX650, JBL Eon One, SSV.3
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2017, 08:03:45 PM »
Hello Guitpic.

I think this is the clearest description that I have heard so far about the Korg PA4X.

I have spent days, if not weeks, listening to, and watching, every available video on YouTube over the past month about the Korg.

I have always come to the same conclusion as you have just described.

I does sound alive, like a real live band playing.
I don't know what they did, or how they did it , but when you close your eyes and try to shut out the idea that you're listening to an arranger keyboard, it does sound like you're listening to an authentic band playing live in front of you.

Especially the R&B and the Level 42 type of slapping Bass Funk.

We sure live in interesting times right now.

There is a Chinese curse that says " May you live in interesting times ."

Best Regards,
Pianoman.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 08:13:14 PM by Pianoman »
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2017, 09:23:25 PM »
Hi Pianoman,

I fully agree with your statement about the Korg's sound.😄

In general one may say the Yamaha high end arranger keyboards are very suitable for home use with a great CD sound, a plug-and-play instrument whilst the Korg might be more suitable for giggers and/or recording studio musicians.

Both arrangers are professional instruments with a great but a different sound.
All depends on the personal needs and wishes of the individual musician, IMHO.

It might be a mistake to say one brand is " better " than the other, I guess.
It is natural to think one prefers one of the two brands.

Personally I like the combination of both arrangers. I like them both.

I also like the combo of MAC and Win home computers.

Jeff

« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 12:28:50 AM by Jeff Hollande »
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2017, 03:55:27 AM »
Hi Pianoman,



It might be a mistake to say one brand is " better " than the other, I guess.
It is natural to think one prefers one of the two brands.

Personally I like the combination of both arrangers. I like them both.

I also like the combo of MAC and Win home computers.

Jeff



I'm of the same thought process.   This afternoon I'll take the Pa4x for a 1 hour show, tomorrow the Genos goes with me to a open house for family and friends at an assisted living facility.  Tomorrow's program is all instrumental Christmas music, no vocals. Either board will do the job very well, last few years I've used either the Pa3x or Pa4x at this facility. I like them both.
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, PSR s970, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2017, 07:43:18 AM »
Hello Jeff and Stephen.

I have agreed with Guitpic's assessment of the Korg because, as I said, I have been watching countless videos of the instrument for over a month now.

I have also been watching many Genos and T5 videos as well. It just happens to be that there are many more T5 and Pa4x videos on YouTube,  because mostly both instruments have been around longer.

It's really not about which brand is better,  as you've both admirably explained.
A T5, from what I've heard so far, would also suit me perfectly.

There are private sellers online selling their T5s. They're all on the mainland, selling at unreasonable prices, and the only way i could get to try one in the flesh is to first transfer a big amount of money. There are too many scam artists here nowadays.

There was a Spanish gentleman who addressed me in Spanish (which caused a bit of a brouhaha) a couple of days ago, who was recommending  a store on the mainland which still sells a T5. The only one I have seen so far.
The price difference between the T5 and the Genos would then be 700€.

So I might as well get the Genos. I have broken many buttons on my T3 because of using too much force in the heat of the moment when performing.

That's why I want to get a new board before it's too late, and I end up getting embarrassed on stage by a keyboard that won't power up.

Apart from that, I have, and still do, always owned Yamaha instruments, from sound gear to keyboards, Stage Pianos and organs.

I am still waiting for my unreliable dealer here to deliver the Genos that I've ordered to demo.
They should have one in the store to demo anyway, whether I end up buying it or not.

With all that said, I have been deeply impressed by the live sounding styles of the Korg on videos.
I have not seen or tried one in the flesh though.

Maybe I'll also buy a future Pa5x when it comes around.
I've read somewhere that the next one will be in 2019.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 10:25:46 AM by Pianoman »
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2017, 03:52:16 AM »
Hi Pianoman,

Why not buying a nice second hand T4, T5 or a PSRS 970 in  Germany, in Belgium or in The Netherlands ?

Shipping it to your nice place will not be a problem, payment neither.

I am willing to help you out if you need assistance.

Best wishes,

Jeff
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2017, 04:02:47 AM »
My 2 pennies worth, knowing what I know now if given the choice between a T4 or T5, I would and did replace the T5 with a Pa4x.  I know it's all very subjective to what each of us hears.  Just sharing a bit of the experience I had.
GENOS, Clavinova CVP 307, PSR s970, Korg Pa4x-76

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline Pianoman

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2017, 08:57:26 AM »
Hi Pianoman,

Why not buying a nice second hand T4, T5 or a PSRS 970 in  Germany, in Belgium or in The Netherlands ?

Shipping it to your nice place will not be a problem, payment neither.

I am willing to help you out if you need assistance.

Best wishes,

Jeff



Thanks for the suggestion and the offer Jeff.

I prefer to buy in Spain for VAT (BTW) and personal Income purposes. Each EU country has a different VAT rate and it's a mess.

My accountant did find a solution the last time I bought something (a phone) from outside of Spain.

His solution was to deduct the VAT and personal Income in one big lump. As a personal expense,  and not the 2 things separately. But he said he could only do it once, as an exception.

If I buy something here in Spain, I get to deduct 100% of the VAT immediately, which means an immediate 840€ deduction on an instrument that costs 4000€. The rest I get to deduct from my trimestrial income declaration.

That's why I'm still searching for a keyboard in Spain, despite the frustration.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 09:13:28 AM by Pianoman »
 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2017, 09:35:21 AM »
If you have a VAT number and you are buying from another CE country your VAT % = 0 %. In other words you do not have to pay any VAT at all. Ask your accountant.

Jeff
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 01:19:39 PM by Jeff Hollande »
DAWS MAC & WIN
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Korg PA4X: An expensive mistake
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2017, 05:34:49 PM »
Sure glad we do not have a VAT here in the states. It would drive me nuts! ;) I do all my own accounting - that's how my hair turned white. :)

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...